This was my official response after many months of me being attacked also here in Ripe and Nanog by a sick member of "The Spamhaus Project" and after I was called in many worst names. After many months I provided an official response. The source there is Nanog and this is how the sick member of "The Spamhaus Project" was called by a poster in Nanog which is not related to me. Silvan Gabhardt is clearly a member of "The Spamhaus Project" and trying to change the facts, just like "The Spamhaus Project" are doing in their illegal cyber influence operations. Respectfully, Elad ________________________________ From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Silvan Gebhardt <silvan@unavailable.online> Sent: Monday, April 27, 2020 1:35 AM To: members-discuss@ripe.net <members-discuss@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Regarding Elad Cohen's nomination and emails Hello Hans, Have you looked at the links alistair posted, let's pick this: https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/cooperation-wg/2020-April/001384.htm... here Elad both insults people constnatly in this thread, and showing screenshots of where he "indentified people as antisemits" - and shows as "Proof" another email, with no source, so for all we know, Elad has written himself. https://imgur.com/a/Rzrbxkz <- so he produces his own "proofs" And why do I think Elad wrote that himself? because he has been called out on his IP adress missapropriation as you can see, if you read this. And this level as shown in this imgur link is beyond waht's acceptable. So he produces his own sources, where he does personally affect peoples to the level of calling things. I have to disagree with you, I consider Elad as harmful and personally attacking people constantly. I do support the stance of Cynthia here and hope the RIPE community can take a stance here against the bullying of Elad. I've seen how things progressed here, from a ususal trolling because people did not take any of Elads proposal serious as they very - in my personal opinion - over the top. But it has progressed to Elad attacking people on a level that is not acceptable for this community. I would again like to stress that Elad wants to be elected as RIPE chair. So are we, as a community, remotely considering someone with this singificant bullying behaviour into a chair of RIPE? Someone who calls everyone that does not agree with his opinion illegal, and beeing engaged in illegal options, and he also refers to mental health of others, as seen in other On 4/26/20 10:16 PM, Hans Govenius wrote: Hello This is ridiculous and out of the question. Its completely out of order to even discuss such actions. These points which he brings to the discussion are atleast somewhat within the scope of matters that could be discussed on a Ripe members list. Its not like Elad would be speaking of ice bears or meatballs here. If someone does not like to discuss things – get out of the list. Its that simple. I don’t take any position on these spam or ipv matters as I don’t have sufficient technical knowledge to either disagree or agree with them but its great that someone tries to come up with something and also I usually prefer if people try to advance things rather than block them. Now lets everyone be civil here and give everyone a voice. br. Hans Lähettäjä: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net><mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> Puolesta Cynthia Revström Lähetetty: maanantai 27. huhtikuuta 2020 1.03 Vastaanottaja: members-discuss@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net>; RIPE NCC Support <ncc@ripe.net><mailto:ncc@ripe.net> Aihe: [members-discuss] Regarding Elad Cohen's nomination and emails Hello, I would like to request that Elad Cohen be blocked from sending to the members-discuss mailing lists after multiple offtopic threads started by Elad and the personal attacks and ignoring WG chairs telling Elad to stop. I would further like to point out that as he is a confirmed candidate for the Exec Board, one of his key responsibilities would be to have the "Ability to communicate effectively", which he has shown that he is not capable of. I would personally say that elad lacks most of the expectations listed on https://www.ripe.net/about-us/executive-board/ripe-ncc-executive-board-funct.... I would like to propose that the RIPE NCC ban Elad Cohen from interacting with the RIPE Community (via Meetings or mailing lists) due to his blatant disregard for the Code of Conduct and for being hostile towards others in the community. As the RIPE NCC hosts and manages these lists I think the RIPE NCC has a responsibility to keep the lists professional and to remove those who repeatedly ignore what the WG chairs are saying. - Cynthia _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/silvan%40unavailable....

please do note that RIPE is a community. The RIPE NCC is who you get IP space from. - Cynthia On Mon, 27 Apr 2020, 01:07 Hans Govenius, <Hans.Govenius@devnet.fi> wrote:

Hello

I am not even remotely interested about those links. I am not even remotely interested if any or all people on this list do different illegal or any actions. That is not any of my concern and I wont use my time to read them.

Only the following matters:

1. People in general have right to opinions and right to express them. If they are deflamatory to the degree that they are illegal, which is a not easy to achieve it is the job of law enforcement and judicial institutions to look into those allegations and take necessary actions. Not Ripe as Ripe is an organization you are forced to be part of if you need ip resources. Therefore its not a club of people who wants to be together. 2. I have never before this day hard of this Elad and what I have now witnessed is more like that he is being unfairly attacked 3. Criticism and investigations are important. I did also at one point raise questions of RIPE´s finances which are not very transparent. If someone is critical towards spamhouse, I don’t see problem here. Its an opinion and as far as its not illegal it must be tolerated.

I will not comment on this ridiculous matter anymore.

Br. Hans

*Lähettäjä:* members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> *Puolesta *Silvan Gebhardt *Lähetetty:* maanantai 27. huhtikuuta 2020 1.36 *Vastaanottaja:* members-discuss@ripe.net *Aihe:* Re: [members-discuss] Regarding Elad Cohen's nomination and emails

Hello Hans,

Have you looked at the links alistair posted,

let's pick this:

https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/cooperation-wg/2020-April/001384.htm...

here Elad both insults people constnatly in this thread, and showing screenshots of where he "indentified people as antisemits" - and shows as "Proof" another email, with no source, so for all we know, Elad has written himself. https://imgur.com/a/Rzrbxkz <- so he produces his own "proofs"

And why do I think Elad wrote that himself? because he has been called out on his IP adress missapropriation as you can see, if you read this. And this level as shown in this imgur link is beyond waht's acceptable.

So he produces his own sources, where he does personally affect peoples to the level of calling things.

I have to disagree with you, I consider Elad as harmful and personally attacking people constantly. I do support the stance of Cynthia here and hope the RIPE community can take a stance here against the bullying of Elad.

I've seen how things progressed here, from a ususal trolling because people did not take any of Elads proposal serious as they very - in my personal opinion - over the top.

But it has progressed to Elad attacking people on a level that is not acceptable for this community.

I would again like to stress that Elad wants to be elected as RIPE chair. So are we, as a community, remotely considering someone with this singificant bullying behaviour into a chair of RIPE? Someone who calls everyone that does not agree with his opinion illegal, and beeing engaged in illegal options, and he also refers to mental health of others, as seen in other

On 4/26/20 10:16 PM, Hans Govenius wrote:

Hello

This is ridiculous and out of the question.

Its completely out of order to even discuss such actions.

These points which he brings to the discussion are atleast somewhat within the scope of matters that could be discussed on a Ripe members list. Its not like Elad would be speaking of ice bears or meatballs here.

If someone does not like to discuss things – get out of the list. Its that simple.

I don’t take any position on these spam or ipv matters as I don’t have sufficient technical knowledge to either disagree or agree with them but its great that someone tries to come up with something and also I usually prefer if people try to advance things rather than block them.

Now lets everyone be civil here and give everyone a voice.

br. Hans

*Lähettäjä:* members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> *Puolesta *Cynthia Revström *Lähetetty:* maanantai 27. huhtikuuta 2020 1.03 *Vastaanottaja:* members-discuss@ripe.net; RIPE NCC Support <ncc@ripe.net> <ncc@ripe.net> *Aihe:* [members-discuss] Regarding Elad Cohen's nomination and emails

Hello,

I would like to request that Elad Cohen be blocked from sending to the members-discuss mailing lists after multiple offtopic threads started by Elad and the personal attacks and ignoring WG chairs telling Elad to stop.

I would further like to point out that as he is a confirmed candidate for the Exec Board, one of his key responsibilities would be to have the "Ability to communicate effectively", which he has shown that he is not capable of.

I would personally say that elad lacks most of the expectations listed on https://www.ripe.net/about-us/executive-board/ripe-ncc-executive-board-funct... .

I would like to propose that the RIPE NCC ban Elad Cohen from interacting with the RIPE Community (via Meetings or mailing lists) due to his blatant disregard for the Code of Conduct and for being hostile towards others in the community. As the RIPE NCC hosts and manages these lists I think the RIPE NCC has a responsibility to keep the lists professional and to remove those who repeatedly ignore what the WG chairs are saying.

- Cynthia

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Hello,

This mailing list is also for subjects related to the General Meeting and so I did.

how is email spam related to the general meeting?

Cynthia is trying to have me out of the list because she is supporting another candidate.

I am not supporting any particular candidate, but I will say that I would prefer literally any candidate over you.

"I would personally say that elad lacks most of the expectations listed on" - this is a complete lie, she doesn't know me and I actually have vast experience regarding all of the the expectations.

I would like to say that you have shown that you do not have the "Ability to communicate effectively" expectation nailed down. - Cynthia On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 12:17 AM Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> wrote:

Hello,

Cynthia is writing complete lies, everything that I wrote was on-topic and was related to the near general meeting that I'm interested to present in it all my ideas that I showed here. This mailing list is also for subjects related to the General Meeting and so I did.

Cynthia is trying to have me out of the list because she is supporting another candidate.

I didn't personally attack anyone, I always only replied to personal attacks on me, just like that personal attack from Cynthia on me.

Regarding what Cynthia wrote: "I would personally say that elad lacks most of the expectations listed on" - this is a complete lie, she doesn't know me and I actually have vast experience regarding all of the the expectations.

Respectfully, Elad ------------------------------ *From:* members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Cynthia Revström <me@cynthia.re> *Sent:* Monday, April 27, 2020 1:02 AM *To:* members-discuss@ripe.net <members-discuss@ripe.net>; RIPE NCC Support <ncc@ripe.net> *Subject:* [members-discuss] Regarding Elad Cohen's nomination and emails

Hello,

I would like to request that Elad Cohen be blocked from sending to the members-discuss mailing lists after multiple offtopic threads started by Elad and the personal attacks and ignoring WG chairs telling Elad to stop.

I would further like to point out that as he is a confirmed candidate for the Exec Board, one of his key responsibilities would be to have the "Ability to communicate effectively", which he has shown that he is not capable of. I would personally say that elad lacks most of the expectations listed on https://www.ripe.net/about-us/executive-board/ripe-ncc-executive-board-funct... .

I would like to propose that the RIPE NCC ban Elad Cohen from interacting with the RIPE Community (via Meetings or mailing lists) due to his blatant disregard for the Code of Conduct and for being hostile towards others in the community. As the RIPE NCC hosts and manages these lists I think the RIPE NCC has a responsibility to keep the lists professional and to remove those who repeatedly ignore what the WG chairs are saying.

- Cynthia

Hello all, I would like to voice my support for this. The amount of unprofessional conduct in the past 2 or 3 email chains is simply ridiculous and completely unacceptable. Thank you, Filip On 4/27/20 12:44 AM, Joseph Marsden wrote:

I support Cynthia's request for a formal investigation.

Best Joseph

On 26/04/2020 23:24, Cynthia Revström wrote:

...

I would also like to formally request that the RIPE NCC investigate if Elad Cohen has breached A.1.2.2.B of RIPE-716. https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-716#a122b This is with regards to statements like this: "Ripe have 30 millions euros of expenses each year that are hidden and now shown to where exactly they are paid, instead of that corruption"

I believe that he does indeed make unreasonable allegations towards the RIPE NCC to damage it's reputation.

- Cynthia

On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 12:02 AM Cynthia Revström <me@cynthia.re <mailto:me@cynthia.re>> wrote:

Hello,

I would like to request that Elad Cohen be blocked from sending to the members-discuss mailing lists after multiple offtopic threads started by Elad and the personal attacks and ignoring WG chairs telling Elad to stop.

I would further like to point out that as he is a confirmed candidate for the Exec Board, one of his key responsibilities would be to have the "Ability to communicate effectively", which he has shown that he is not capable of. I would personally say that elad lacks most of the expectations listed on https://www.ripe.net/about-us/executive-board/ripe-ncc-executive-board-funct....

I would like to propose that the RIPE NCC ban Elad Cohen from interacting with the RIPE Community (via Meetings or mailing lists) due to his blatant disregard for the Code of Conduct and for being hostile towards others in the community. As the RIPE NCC hosts and manages these lists I think the RIPE NCC has a responsibility to keep the lists professional and to remove those who repeatedly ignore what the WG chairs are saying.

- Cynthia

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This is only because I provided a solution to replace "The Spamhaus Project". See what they are doing to me See how much they are afraid To remind - the co-chair Richard D G Cox in Ripe was part of "The Spamhaus Project" according to his presentation They have more people in Ripe, they are controlling Ripe and they are afraid of me being elected Respectfully, Elad ________________________________ From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Serge Bazanski <q3k@q3k.org> Sent: Monday, April 27, 2020 2:27 AM To: members-discuss@ripe.net <members-discuss@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Regarding Elad Cohen's nomination and emails I am also voicing my support for limiting Elad's interaction with this mailing list. Serge Bazanski Warsaw Hackerspace _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/elad%40netstyle.io

I also agree with Alex."if its not in use, means you are not using it, aren’t u supposed to give it back to RIPE".This make a lot of sense to me, because these resources (ip ranges, asn) are RIPE property.Brokers and companies are making a lot of profit selling these...Even the "selling" word is wrong. If they are "selling", the ips shouldn't become property of the buyer?? I guess it's more a loan. No?This is something I would like to hear from RIPE NCC and members.The RIPE contract is very clear to me. RIPE loans the resources and these resources can be transferred only in specific cases. If a LIR doesn't need a resource, this must be taken back to the pool...When I see the ipv4 transfer... i am disgusted! So many persons/companies wanting to "sell" ips that are in fact ripe property. This list in my opinion, should exist yes, to sell/buy ips that are NOT RIPE property.I am sure that if RIPE take some actions on this, there will be enough IPv4 addresses for everyone till IPv6 be fully deployed. I am sure that I will be crucified here for what I said... and I am sure that who will crucify me will be a broker or a entity that makes profit from RIPE resources.My 2ctEnviado a partir do meu smartphone Samsung Galaxy. -------- Mensagem original --------De : Architecture Iq Data Srl <office@architekiq.ro> Data: 27/04/20 08:30 (GMT+01:00) Para: members-discuss@ripe.net Assunto: Re: [members-discuss] Regarding Elad Cohen's nomination and emails Hi. This is my first post to the mailing list and I only did it because you guys are flooding my mailbox. This doesn’t look like a group of professionals, its looking like my kid’s school Whatsapp group.I have to agree with Mr. Hans Govenius, I don’t know Elad or are technical enough to speak  on the matter but what I know and experienced is that existing IPv6 is worse than theoretical IPv4+. It was launched several years ago with bells and whistles but was managed poorly and years later big companies ended up with 1 digit subnets while small ones had to come with justifications over justifications. IPv6 was implemented by RIPE so well that their own employees left be became brokers (isn’t that like insider trading?). We are now left with a marketplace to buy or sell IPs which is ridiculous because  when you transfer an IP range it must not be in use, so how the hell can someone transfer a /16 or  more ( if its not in use, means you are not using it, aren’t u supposed to give it back to RIPE?). Transfers should have only been allowed if entire LIR/company was bought, which makes more sense. So in conclusion IPv6 might be the future but it was never a solution, it’s even worse that this IPv4+. So far IPv4+ did not make IPv4 prices reach the sky, now-a-days it costs more to expand a subnet than to upgrade a router. regards—AlexOn 27 Apr 2020, at 06:39, Ed Campbell <campbell@inca.ie> wrote:I support this. He has taken to emailing me directly with his conspiracy theories. Sent from my iPhoneOn 26 Apr 2020, at 23:04, Cynthia Revström <me@cynthia.re> wrote:Hello,I would like to request that Elad Cohen be blocked from sending to the members-discuss mailing lists after multiple offtopic threads started by Elad and the personal attacks and ignoring WG chairs telling Elad to stop.I would further like to point out that as he is a confirmed candidate for the Exec Board, one of his key responsibilities would be to have the "Ability to communicate effectively", which he has shown that he is not capable of.I would personally say that elad lacks most of the expectations listed on https://www.ripe.net/about-us/executive-board/ripe-ncc-executive-board-funct... would like to propose that the RIPE NCC ban Elad Cohen from interacting with the RIPE Community (via Meetings or mailing lists) due to his blatant disregard for the Code of Conduct and for being hostile towards others in the community. As the RIPE NCC hosts and manages these lists I think the RIPE NCC has a responsibility to keep the lists professional and to remove those who repeatedly ignore what the WG chairs are saying.- Cynthia _______________________________________________members-discuss mailing listmembers-discuss@ripe.nethttps://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discussUnsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/campbell%40inca.ie___... mailing listmembers-discuss@ripe.nethttps://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discussUnsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/office%40architekiq.r...

Cynthia, The sick person which you are referring to and is your colleague from "The Spamhaus Project", defamed me for many many months, here in Ripe and in Nanog, he called me by many names without a single proof. He was called an antisemitic and a racist not by me - but by people which are not related to me in Nanog. After many months I provided an official response in Ripe. I didn't hear your voice when he defamed me for many many months with him calling me by many names. So obviously your interests are hidden. In the other working groups - I only replied to him, and I didn't hear your voice regarding your sick colleague initial message with name callings towards me when I only replied to his attack on me. And his personal attack on me is exactly like your personal attack on me now - you are afraid that an alternative solution to "The Spamhaus Project" will be implemented if I will be elected. Respectfully, Elad ________________________________ From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Cynthia Revström <me@cynthia.re> Sent: Monday, April 27, 2020 1:50 PM To: Sascha Luck [ml] <ripe-md@c4inet.net> Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net <members-discuss@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Regarding Elad Cohen's nomination and emails

The RIPE *NCC* has no business either enforcing "professionality" on the *community* mailing lists - this is the WG chairs' responsibility.

AFAIK there are no WG chairs of members-discuss and members-discuss is a mailing list that the RIPE NCC hosts to let RIPE NCC members discuss RIPE NCC membership related topics, so I think they certainly have business enforcing people to be professional on this mailing list. I would also like to add that Elad has multiple times on different mailing lists ignored the WG chairs. Also this is happening across a variety of RIPE/RIPE NCC mailing lists that are all hosted by the RIPE NCC and as such I think it is their business to keep them to a professional standard.

If I'm wrong, where do I submit the list of people I'd like to see excluded from the community?

There should not be a long list of people, but when someone is behaving unprofessionally, calling people "coconut", being defamatory towards the RIPE NCC, ignoring WG chairs, I do think that they have gone too far and everything has a limit. Like we wouldn't allow someone to send sales emails to the mailing list as an example, aka limits on what is allowed. - Cynthia On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 12:43 PM Sascha Luck [ml] <ripe-md@c4inet.net<mailto:ripe-md@c4inet.net>> wrote: On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 12:02:59AM +0200, Cynthia Revstrm wrote:

I would like to propose that the RIPE NCC ban Elad Cohen from interacting with the RIPE Community (via Meetings or mailing lists) due to his blatant disregard for the Code of Conduct and for being hostile towards others in the community. As the RIPE NCC hosts and manages these lists I think the RIPE NCC has a responsibility to keep the lists professional and to remove those who repeatedly ignore what the WG chairs are saying.

The RIPE *NCC* has no business either enforcing "professionality" on the *community* mailing lists - this is the WG chairs' responsibility. Nor do I think the NCC should determine who can be a member of the RIPE community or not. If I'm wrong, where do I submit the list of people I'd like to see excluded from the community? I think this proposal is the most out-of-order thing I've yet seen in this thread. rgds, Sascha Luck

- Cynthia

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He called me with antisemitic names many times and on many working groups and you said nothing, you claim not to see his messages, but you clearly saw all of my messages and you are monitoring me pretty well. I'm sorry but I don't believe you, specially when you are attacking me personally so heavily with distorting the facts. You clearly so the word coconut - so you also saw what I shared on the same post that he wrote on other groups of people and that he was called a racist and an antisemitic - but you decided to ignore this as well, so you didn't read my whole post - you read only the word 'coconut' and you decided to jump in ? Cynthia, please spread your lies somewhere else. Respectfully, Elad ________________________________ From: Cynthia Revström <me@cynthia.re> Sent: Monday, April 27, 2020 2:05 PM To: Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net <members-discuss@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Regarding Elad Cohen's nomination and emails Elad, first of all, I am not an employee or in any way related to Spamhaus, and I doubt many of the people you have suggested are part of it have anything to do with it either. And because I have things to do that are not spending my entire days on RIPE mailing lists I guess I missed RFG calling you names, but I will assure you that if I was on those discussions I would call him out if he called you a "coconut" or similar. Also just because someone has called you names on mailing lists doesn't mean you get to call them names on mailing lists. - Cynthia On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 12:58 PM Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io<mailto:elad@netstyle.io>> wrote: Cynthia, The sick person which you are referring to and is your colleague from "The Spamhaus Project", defamed me for many many months, here in Ripe and in Nanog, he called me by many names without a single proof. He was called an antisemitic and a racist not by me - but by people which are not related to me in Nanog. After many months I provided an official response in Ripe. I didn't hear your voice when he defamed me for many many months with him calling me by many names. So obviously your interests are hidden. In the other working groups - I only replied to him, and I didn't hear your voice regarding your sick colleague initial message with name callings towards me when I only replied to his attack on me. And his personal attack on me is exactly like your personal attack on me now - you are afraid that an alternative solution to "The Spamhaus Project" will be implemented if I will be elected. Respectfully, Elad ________________________________ From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net>> on behalf of Cynthia Revström <me@cynthia.re<mailto:me@cynthia.re>> Sent: Monday, April 27, 2020 1:50 PM To: Sascha Luck [ml] <ripe-md@c4inet.net<mailto:ripe-md@c4inet.net>> Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> <members-discuss@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net>> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Regarding Elad Cohen's nomination and emails

The RIPE *NCC* has no business either enforcing "professionality" on the *community* mailing lists - this is the WG chairs' responsibility.

AFAIK there are no WG chairs of members-discuss and members-discuss is a mailing list that the RIPE NCC hosts to let RIPE NCC members discuss RIPE NCC membership related topics, so I think they certainly have business enforcing people to be professional on this mailing list. I would also like to add that Elad has multiple times on different mailing lists ignored the WG chairs. Also this is happening across a variety of RIPE/RIPE NCC mailing lists that are all hosted by the RIPE NCC and as such I think it is their business to keep them to a professional standard.

If I'm wrong, where do I submit the list of people I'd like to see excluded from the community?

There should not be a long list of people, but when someone is behaving unprofessionally, calling people "coconut", being defamatory towards the RIPE NCC, ignoring WG chairs, I do think that they have gone too far and everything has a limit. Like we wouldn't allow someone to send sales emails to the mailing list as an example, aka limits on what is allowed. - Cynthia On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 12:43 PM Sascha Luck [ml] <ripe-md@c4inet.net<mailto:ripe-md@c4inet.net>> wrote: On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 12:02:59AM +0200, Cynthia Revstrm wrote:

I would like to propose that the RIPE NCC ban Elad Cohen from interacting with the RIPE Community (via Meetings or mailing lists) due to his blatant disregard for the Code of Conduct and for being hostile towards others in the community. As the RIPE NCC hosts and manages these lists I think the RIPE NCC has a responsibility to keep the lists professional and to remove those who repeatedly ignore what the WG chairs are saying.

The RIPE *NCC* has no business either enforcing "professionality" on the *community* mailing lists - this is the WG chairs' responsibility. Nor do I think the NCC should determine who can be a member of the RIPE community or not. If I'm wrong, where do I submit the list of people I'd like to see excluded from the community? I think this proposal is the most out-of-order thing I've yet seen in this thread. rgds, Sascha Luck

- Cynthia

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UNISUSCRIBE LIST El 27/4/20 a las 13:14, Cynthia Revström escribió:

Elad, please send me an archive link to the specific email on a RIPE/RIPE NCC mailing list where RFG called you a rude name.

- Cynthia

On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 1:12 PM Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io <mailto:elad@netstyle.io>> wrote:

He called me with antisemitic names many times and on many working groups and you said nothing, you claim not to see his messages, but you clearly saw all of my messages and you are monitoring me pretty well. I'm sorry but I don't believe you, specially when you are attacking me personally so heavily with distorting the facts. You clearly so the word coconut - so you also saw what I shared on the same post that he wrote on other groups of people and that he was called a racist and an antisemitic - but you decided to ignore this as well, so you didn't read my whole post - you read only the word 'coconut' and you decided to jump in ?

Cynthia, please spread your lies somewhere else.

Respectfully, Elad ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *From:* Cynthia Revström <me@cynthia.re <mailto:me@cynthia.re>> *Sent:* Monday, April 27, 2020 2:05 PM *To:* Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io <mailto:elad@netstyle.io>> *Cc:* members-discuss@ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> <members-discuss@ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net>> *Subject:* Re: [members-discuss] Regarding Elad Cohen's nomination and emails Elad, first of all, I am not an employee or in any way related to Spamhaus, and I doubt many of the people you have suggested are part of it have anything to do with it either.

And because I have things to do that are not spending my entire days on RIPE mailing lists I guess I missed RFG calling you names, but I will assure you that if I was on those discussions I would call him out if he called you a "coconut" or similar. Also just because someone has called you names on mailing lists doesn't mean you get to call them names on mailing lists.

- Cynthia

On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 12:58 PM Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io <mailto:elad@netstyle.io>> wrote:

Cynthia,

The sick person which you are referring to and is your colleague from "The Spamhaus Project", defamed me for many many months, here in Ripe and in Nanog, he called me by many names without a single proof. He was called an antisemitic and a  racist not by me - but by people which are not related to me in Nanog. After many months I provided an official response in Ripe. I didn't hear your voice when he defamed me for many many months with him calling me by many names. So obviously your interests are hidden.

In the other working groups - I only replied to him, and I didn't hear your voice regarding your sick colleague initial message with name callings towards me when I only replied to his attack on me. And his personal attack on me is exactly like your personal attack on me now - you are afraid that an alternative solution to "The Spamhaus Project" will be implemented if I will be elected.

Respectfully, Elad ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *From:* members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net>> on behalf of Cynthia Revström <me@cynthia.re <mailto:me@cynthia.re>> *Sent:* Monday, April 27, 2020 1:50 PM *To:* Sascha Luck [ml] <ripe-md@c4inet.net <mailto:ripe-md@c4inet.net>> *Cc:* members-discuss@ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> <members-discuss@ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net>> *Subject:* Re: [members-discuss] Regarding Elad Cohen's nomination and emails > The RIPE *NCC* has no business either enforcing "professionality" on the *community* mailing lists - this is the WG chairs' responsibility.

AFAIK there are no WG chairs of members-discuss and members-discuss is a mailing list that the RIPE NCC hosts to let RIPE NCC members discuss RIPE NCC membership related topics, so I think they certainly have business enforcing people to be professional on this mailing list.

I would also like to add that Elad has multiple times on different mailing lists ignored the WG chairs. Also this is happening across a variety of RIPE/RIPE NCC mailing lists that are all hosted by the RIPE NCC and as such I think it is their business to keep them to a professional standard.

> If I'm wrong, where do I submit the list of people I'd like to see excluded from the community?

There should not be a long list of people, but when someone is behaving unprofessionally, calling people "coconut", being defamatory towards the RIPE NCC, ignoring WG chairs, I do think that they have gone too far and everything has a limit. Like we wouldn't allow someone to send sales emails to the mailing list as an example, aka limits on what is allowed.

- Cynthia

On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 12:43 PM Sascha Luck [ml] <ripe-md@c4inet.net <mailto:ripe-md@c4inet.net>> wrote:

On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 12:02:59AM +0200, Cynthia Revstrm wrote: >I would like to propose that the RIPE NCC ban Elad Cohen from interacting >with the RIPE Community (via Meetings or mailing lists) due to his blatant >disregard for the Code of Conduct and for being hostile towards others in >the community. As the RIPE NCC hosts and manages these lists I think the >RIPE NCC has a responsibility to keep the lists professional and to remove >those who repeatedly ignore what the WG chairs are saying.

The RIPE *NCC* has no business either enforcing "professionality" on the *community* mailing lists - this is the WG chairs' responsibility. Nor do I think the NCC should determine who can be a member of the RIPE community or not. If I'm wrong, where do I submit the list of people I'd like to see excluded from the community? I think this proposal is the most out-of-order thing I've yet seen in this thread.

rgds, Sascha Luck

> >- Cynthia

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-- Santos Martinez Guirao Tlf +34 696815396

Stuart, The cyber influence operation of "The Spamhaus Project" against me proceed... I didn't accuse anyone with anything. The simple facts are: * That IPv6 deployers have an interest that IPv4+ will not be deployed. * That "The Spamhaus Project" have more people in Ripe just like they had Richard D G Cox, the past co-chair of the Ripe Anti-Abuse Working Group. Regarding the fake media reports that were originated from "The Spamhaus Project" - the "source" of the fake media reports is a member of "The Spamhaus Project" and an employee of a direct business competitor that used the netblock and wanted to hurt their business competitor and also the owner of the criminal twitter account: https://twitter.com/underthebreach and a master of cyber influence operations according to his own words in his criminal twitter account (meaning to create a fake story without a single proof), there is no a single proof in any of the fake media reports and there will never be. Stuart, you can be sure that whenever I will see "The Spamhaus Project" doing injustice - I will stand up - even if more 100000000 fake media reports without a single proof will be written against me, "The Spamhaus Project" is an illegal anonymous organization - only because this organization is providing a massive amount of illegaly obtained privacy data that was extorted from internet companies such as hosting companies - and then providing it in illegal way (without any warrant) to law enforcement agencies - and by that helping the law enforcement agencies to do their work - the law enforcement agencies are ignoring all the complaints from many businesses worldwide regarding the criminal operation of "The Spamhaus Project". Respectfully, Elad ________________________________ From: Stuart Willet (primary) <stu@safehosts.co.uk> Sent: Monday, April 27, 2020 2:12 PM To: Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io>; Cynthia Revström <me@cynthia.re>; Sascha Luck [ml] <ripe-md@c4inet.net> Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net <members-discuss@ripe.net> Subject: RE: [members-discuss] Regarding Elad Cohen's nomination and emails Elad, I had not hear of you before the posts you made about IPv4+ and spam. I have seen that you are very quick to accuse anyone who disagrees with you of some form of conspiracy. Rather than jump to conclusions, I did a quick google search for your name and company. Wow. I think your best move now would be to quietly slip into the background before too many people start investigating AFRINIC IP addresses…. Best regards, Stuart Willet. From: members-discuss [mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net] On Behalf Of Elad Cohen Sent: Monday, 27 April 2020 11:59 To: Cynthia Revström <me@cynthia.re>; Sascha Luck [ml] <ripe-md@c4inet.net> Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Regarding Elad Cohen's nomination and emails Cynthia, The sick person which you are referring to and is your colleague from "The Spamhaus Project", defamed me for many many months, here in Ripe and in Nanog, he called me by many names without a single proof. He was called an antisemitic and a racist not by me - but by people which are not related to me in Nanog. After many months I provided an official response in Ripe. I didn't hear your voice when he defamed me for many many months with him calling me by many names. So obviously your interests are hidden. In the other working groups - I only replied to him, and I didn't hear your voice regarding your sick colleague initial message with name callings towards me when I only replied to his attack on me. And his personal attack on me is exactly like your personal attack on me now - you are afraid that an alternative solution to "The Spamhaus Project" will be implemented if I will be elected. Respectfully, Elad ________________________________ From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net>> on behalf of Cynthia Revström <me@cynthia.re<mailto:me@cynthia.re>> Sent: Monday, April 27, 2020 1:50 PM To: Sascha Luck [ml] <ripe-md@c4inet.net<mailto:ripe-md@c4inet.net>> Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> <members-discuss@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net>> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Regarding Elad Cohen's nomination and emails

The RIPE *NCC* has no business either enforcing "professionality" on the *community* mailing lists - this is the WG chairs' responsibility.

AFAIK there are no WG chairs of members-discuss and members-discuss is a mailing list that the RIPE NCC hosts to let RIPE NCC members discuss RIPE NCC membership related topics, so I think they certainly have business enforcing people to be professional on this mailing list. I would also like to add that Elad has multiple times on different mailing lists ignored the WG chairs. Also this is happening across a variety of RIPE/RIPE NCC mailing lists that are all hosted by the RIPE NCC and as such I think it is their business to keep them to a professional standard.

If I'm wrong, where do

I submit the list of people I'd like to see excluded from the community? There should not be a long list of people, but when someone is behaving unprofessionally, calling people "coconut", being defamatory towards the RIPE NCC, ignoring WG chairs, I do think that they have gone too far and everything has a limit. Like we wouldn't allow someone to send sales emails to the mailing list as an example, aka limits on what is allowed. - Cynthia On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 12:43 PM Sascha Luck [ml] <ripe-md@c4inet.net<mailto:ripe-md@c4inet.net>> wrote: On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 12:02:59AM +0200, Cynthia Revstrm wrote:

I would like to propose that the RIPE NCC ban Elad Cohen from interacting with the RIPE Community (via Meetings or mailing lists) due to his blatant disregard for the Code of Conduct and for being hostile towards others in the community. As the RIPE NCC hosts and manages these lists I think the RIPE NCC has a responsibility to keep the lists professional and to remove those who repeatedly ignore what the WG chairs are saying.

The RIPE *NCC* has no business either enforcing "professionality" on the *community* mailing lists - this is the WG chairs' responsibility. Nor do I think the NCC should determine who can be a member of the RIPE community or not. If I'm wrong, where do I submit the list of people I'd like to see excluded from the community? I think this proposal is the most out-of-order thing I've yet seen in this thread. rgds, Sascha Luck

- Cynthia

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Agreed. I like to be a member on this list and there have been very interesting discussions. But this here has become a very personal and emotional discussion, not to say a mud fight. Please take a breath and calm down a bit. This conversation is currently just leading people to unsubscribe from the list -----Original Message----- From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> On Behalf Of Viethen, Christoph Sent: Monday, 27 April 2020 13:27 To: members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Regarding Elad Cohen's nomination and emails People, could you please discuss those personal matters among yourselves? (And whoever provided Internet access to that sandbox in kindergarten ... please give them back their sand castles and their little buckets and shovels and all and let them play games appropriate to their age. Thank you.) C. _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/m.schaepers%40vsqloud...

Anthony, Everything that you wrote here are false and incorrect, I only responded to a person that was called an antisemitic and a racist, not by me, but by many other people in the Nanog list. * There is comments that “could” be considered defamatory – especially when there is limited to no evidence to prove the comment * You continue to harass/bully/attack other members of the list just because they don’t agree with your opinion * You are continuing to throw accusations around again without material evidence. * You are wishing to run for a position of authority which arguably calls you to a far higher standard with regards to how you put your message across My comments below in green regarding the fallacies that you raised: * The required infrastructure globally would be phenomenal - Spamhaus already have such infrastructure in place and they are being sponsored (they don't sell a service at spamhaus.org), so it is feasible * It would also require far more systems level expertise than is realised (think database replication/caching etc) – especially when you compare this to say, operating one of the root level nameservers or AS112 or RPKI - If system are designed well and developed well then maintenance is low, I don't see this problem as you do * It would for many place an unacceptable “single” point of failure in your proposed system - Bgp anycast deployment will avoid it * Who would pay for this service? How? What is the pricing model? - RIRs + ccTLDs Registries , and after it the many site owners that will want their newsletters to reach the mailboxes with 100% reliability * Centralising the management has issues - for stability issues bgp anycast will be used, for security and privacy issues - hashing will be used, currently each newsletter subscribers are also centralized, for example mailchimp is a centralized service with many 'mailing list' email addresses. And mailing lists owner will not be obligated to use NoSpam.org - they will still be able to use MailChimp or to save their newsletter system locally - in this case they shouldn't send newselleter with links/images/url's - if their subscribers are using upgraded email clients, simple mailing lists with simple plain text will reach the inboxes - no matter if the domain owner will choose to create a mailing list through NoSpam.org or to implement it on his server with a 3rd party newsletter software. * DATA protection/GPDR compliance – just because its hashed doesn’t make you any less responsible - There will be a checkbox in the registration form for the end-user for accepting terms and privacy policy, and any domain owner that will open an account at NoSpam.org will also have a checkbox that he read the terms and privacy policy. * Risk of hash collisions? – is this an issue to be concerned about? It's a good point, hashes can be splited - meaning that each email address will have two hashes - for the two parts before and after @ , in order to minimize the risk of hash collision, in a rare case of collision the end-user will see a newsletter that was emailed directly to him but the user didn't subscribe for it, the user will be able to blacklist. * Like Root Certificates – getting mail client vendors to update just for your system is going to be exceptionally difficult if not impossible) - once the 5 RIRs and the ccTLDs are ready for this task - I believe that with all of their power it will be possible to recruit client vendors to update. Respectfully, Elad ________________________________ From: anthony.somerset@cloudunboxed.net <anthony.somerset@cloudunboxed.net> Sent: Monday, April 27, 2020 2:35 PM To: Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io>; 'Cynthia Revström' <me@cynthia.re>; 'Sascha Luck [ml]' <ripe-md@c4inet.net> Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net <members-discuss@ripe.net> Subject: RE: [members-discuss] Regarding Elad Cohen's nomination and emails Wow well over 100 emails over the weekend on this topic… For the record – I have no ties to the Spamhaus project, I don’t personally use it and I can’t say I knowingly know anyone connected to the project in any material way Elad – your behaviour and your responses continue to be inflammatory in nature (among other things) despite a good many people saying enough now. Please just stop. Its one thing to have an opinion and air it – I would not want to prevent this from happening but its another thing entirely when * There is comments that “could” be considered defamatory – especially when there is limited to no evidence to prove the comment * You continue to harass/bully/attack other members of the list just because they don’t agree with your opinion * You are continuing to throw accusations around again without material evidence. * You are wishing to run for a position of authority which arguably calls you to a far higher standard with regards to how you put your message across Remember you have a right to your opinion, just like we also respectively have the right not to listen to it and/or pick it apart as long as we all keep things civilised and follow the relevant good conduct guidelines in effect. This behaviour would quite frankly get you fired at many companies so why do you consider it acceptable here? You ultimately only are making yourself look worse To the Ripe NCC Moderators/Admin team – if there is some formal channel that I can now make my complaint known or to request at the very least an immediate moderation of Elad Cohen’s submissions to this mailing list please urgently advise. I would like to formally agree with Cynthia and others’ complaints on this matter Back to the “idea” that triggered this particular wave of arguments, there are a huge number of fallacies with the idea * The required infrastructure globally would be phenomenal * It would also require far more systems level expertise than is realised (think database replication/caching etc) – especially when you compare this to say, operating one of the root level nameservers or AS112 or RPKI * It would for many place an unacceptable “single” point of failure in your proposed system * Who would pay for this service? How? What is the pricing model? * Centralising the management has issues * DATA protection/GPDR compliance – just because its hashed doesn’t make you any less responsible * Risk of hash collisions? – is this an issue to be concerned about? * Like Root Certificates – getting mail client vendors to update just for your system is going to be exceptionally difficult if not impossible) Now on the matter of centralising the running of such a system is problematic, especially when you consider that this system is fundamentally a trust based system, you are relying in faith that the responsible guardians of said systems are to be trusted to act responsibly and not to the detriment of others. For some operators in the internet space there are known issues of people doing bad stuff (BGP hijacking, internet shutdowns etc) and I know of at least one RIR (not RIPE) that has not exactly operated fully within their own constitutional mandate and processes in recent times. A good friend of mine and work colleague, Andrew Alston, recently wrote a related article about trust and centralisation as it relates to RPKI - https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/rpki-things-being-considered-andrew-alston/ a lot of the comments made there probably equally apply to any proposed mail filtering solution. To be totally frank – the only real way to solve the email spam problem is just to turn off email entirely and replace it with some other better architected solution, everything else is realistically a band-aid that people will find ways around. Kind Regards Anthony Somerset From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> On Behalf Of Elad Cohen Sent: Monday, April 27, 2020 12:59 PM To: Cynthia Revström <me@cynthia.re>; Sascha Luck [ml] <ripe-md@c4inet.net> Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Regarding Elad Cohen's nomination and emails Cynthia, The sick person which you are referring to and is your colleague from "The Spamhaus Project", defamed me for many many months, here in Ripe and in Nanog, he called me by many names without a single proof. He was called an antisemitic and a racist not by me - but by people which are not related to me in Nanog. After many months I provided an official response in Ripe. I didn't hear your voice when he defamed me for many many months with him calling me by many names. So obviously your interests are hidden. In the other working groups - I only replied to him, and I didn't hear your voice regarding your sick colleague initial message with name callings towards me when I only replied to his attack on me. And his personal attack on me is exactly like your personal attack on me now - you are afraid that an alternative solution to "The Spamhaus Project" will be implemented if I will be elected. Respectfully, Elad ________________________________ From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net>> on behalf of Cynthia Revström <me@cynthia.re<mailto:me@cynthia.re>> Sent: Monday, April 27, 2020 1:50 PM To: Sascha Luck [ml] <ripe-md@c4inet.net<mailto:ripe-md@c4inet.net>> Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> <members-discuss@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net>> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Regarding Elad Cohen's nomination and emails

The RIPE *NCC* has no business either enforcing "professionality" on the *community* mailing lists - this is the WG chairs' responsibility.

AFAIK there are no WG chairs of members-discuss and members-discuss is a mailing list that the RIPE NCC hosts to let RIPE NCC members discuss RIPE NCC membership related topics, so I think they certainly have business enforcing people to be professional on this mailing list. I would also like to add that Elad has multiple times on different mailing lists ignored the WG chairs. Also this is happening across a variety of RIPE/RIPE NCC mailing lists that are all hosted by the RIPE NCC and as such I think it is their business to keep them to a professional standard.

If I'm wrong, where do

I submit the list of people I'd like to see excluded from the community? There should not be a long list of people, but when someone is behaving unprofessionally, calling people "coconut", being defamatory towards the RIPE NCC, ignoring WG chairs, I do think that they have gone too far and everything has a limit. Like we wouldn't allow someone to send sales emails to the mailing list as an example, aka limits on what is allowed. - Cynthia On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 12:43 PM Sascha Luck [ml] <ripe-md@c4inet.net<mailto:ripe-md@c4inet.net>> wrote: On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 12:02:59AM +0200, Cynthia Revstrm wrote:

I would like to propose that the RIPE NCC ban Elad Cohen from interacting with the RIPE Community (via Meetings or mailing lists) due to his blatant disregard for the Code of Conduct and for being hostile towards others in the community. As the RIPE NCC hosts and manages these lists I think the RIPE NCC has a responsibility to keep the lists professional and to remove those who repeatedly ignore what the WG chairs are saying.

The RIPE *NCC* has no business either enforcing "professionality" on the *community* mailing lists - this is the WG chairs' responsibility. Nor do I think the NCC should determine who can be a member of the RIPE community or not. If I'm wrong, where do I submit the list of people I'd like to see excluded from the community? I think this proposal is the most out-of-order thing I've yet seen in this thread. rgds, Sascha Luck

- Cynthia

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Hi Elad I’m glad you have come back with cogent rebuttals to my pointing out short comings I’d like to state that many of the matters I raised are not unsurmountable but whether they are economically and technically feasible does remain to be seen. A working POC would better demonstrate this. I will advise specifically that just thinking BGP anycast alone will solve all your problems is fairly short sighted. To give an example, Database replication cannot be simply engineered into being with BGP anycast only. Once a system is in operation yes maintenance might be relatively low but the level of expertise to implement such a complex system should not be under-estimated. It would need one extremely well co-ordinated team for initial project and it would still need a reasonably well resourced team to maintain going forward because again database replication for one is not something you can set and forget, its health needs to be carefully and continuously monitored. I can’t speak in much more depth because there isn’t a detailed technical architecture to comment on at this stage. These are just some of the things you would need to consider and architect around The main problems of your proposal are still fundamentally trust based and the need to get the entire ecosystem using it for it to actually work, and you can refer to the whole IPv6 rollout as a good example of the difficulties of getting worldwide adoption – it will take years even if you get the RIR’s and ccTLD’s on board! I still don’t see a sensible way of gaining trust in a centralised management model and I unfortunately don’t have any better suggestions at this time for the specific use case From: Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io> Sent: Monday, April 27, 2020 2:09 PM To: anthony.somerset@cloudunboxed.net; 'Cynthia Revström' <me@cynthia.re>; 'Sascha Luck [ml]' <ripe-md@c4inet.net> Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Regarding Elad Cohen's nomination and emails Anthony, Everything that you wrote here are false and incorrect, I only responded to a person that was called an antisemitic and a racist, not by me, but by many other people in the Nanog list. * There is comments that “could” be considered defamatory – especially when there is limited to no evidence to prove the comment * You continue to harass/bully/attack other members of the list just because they don’t agree with your opinion * You are continuing to throw accusations around again without material evidence. * You are wishing to run for a position of authority which arguably calls you to a far higher standard with regards to how you put your message across My comments below in green regarding the fallacies that you raised: * The required infrastructure globally would be phenomenal - Spamhaus already have such infrastructure in place and they are being sponsored (they don't sell a service at spamhaus.org), so it is feasible * It would also require far more systems level expertise than is realised (think database replication/caching etc) – especially when you compare this to say, operating one of the root level nameservers or AS112 or RPKI - If system are designed well and developed well then maintenance is low, I don't see this problem as you do * It would for many place an unacceptable “single” point of failure in your proposed system - Bgp anycast deployment will avoid it * Who would pay for this service? How? What is the pricing model? - RIRs + ccTLDs Registries , and after it the many site owners that will want their newsletters to reach the mailboxes with 100% reliability * Centralising the management has issues - for stability issues bgp anycast will be used, for security and privacy issues - hashing will be used, currently each newsletter subscribers are also centralized, for example mailchimp is a centralized service with many 'mailing list' email addresses. And mailing lists owner will not be obligated to use NoSpam.org - they will still be able to use MailChimp or to save their newsletter system locally - in this case they shouldn't send newselleter with links/images/url's - if their subscribers are using upgraded email clients, simple mailing lists with simple plain text will reach the inboxes - no matter if the domain owner will choose to create a mailing list through NoSpam.org or to implement it on his server with a 3rd party newsletter software. * DATA protection/GPDR compliance – just because its hashed doesn’t make you any less responsible - There will be a checkbox in the registration form for the end-user for accepting terms and privacy policy, and any domain owner that will open an account at NoSpam.org will also have a checkbox that he read the terms and privacy policy. * Risk of hash collisions? – is this an issue to be concerned about? It's a good point, hashes can be splited - meaning that each email address will have two hashes - for the two parts before and after @ , in order to minimize the risk of hash collision, in a rare case of collision the end-user will see a newsletter that was emailed directly to him but the user didn't subscribe for it, the user will be able to blacklist. * Like Root Certificates – getting mail client vendors to update just for your system is going to be exceptionally difficult if not impossible) - once the 5 RIRs and the ccTLDs are ready for this task - I believe that with all of their power it will be possible to recruit client vendors to update. Respectfully, Elad _____ From: anthony.somerset@cloudunboxed.net <mailto:anthony.somerset@cloudunboxed.net> <anthony.somerset@cloudunboxed.net <mailto:anthony.somerset@cloudunboxed.net> > Sent: Monday, April 27, 2020 2:35 PM To: Elad Cohen <elad@netstyle.io <mailto:elad@netstyle.io> >; 'Cynthia Revström' <me@cynthia.re <mailto:me@cynthia.re> >; 'Sascha Luck [ml]' <ripe-md@c4inet.net <mailto:ripe-md@c4inet.net> > Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> <members-discuss@ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> > Subject: RE: [members-discuss] Regarding Elad Cohen's nomination and emails Wow well over 100 emails over the weekend on this topic… For the record – I have no ties to the Spamhaus project, I don’t personally use it and I can’t say I knowingly know anyone connected to the project in any material way Elad – your behaviour and your responses continue to be inflammatory in nature (among other things) despite a good many people saying enough now. Please just stop. Its one thing to have an opinion and air it – I would not want to prevent this from happening but its another thing entirely when * There is comments that “could” be considered defamatory – especially when there is limited to no evidence to prove the comment * You continue to harass/bully/attack other members of the list just because they don’t agree with your opinion * You are continuing to throw accusations around again without material evidence. * You are wishing to run for a position of authority which arguably calls you to a far higher standard with regards to how you put your message across Remember you have a right to your opinion, just like we also respectively have the right not to listen to it and/or pick it apart as long as we all keep things civilised and follow the relevant good conduct guidelines in effect. This behaviour would quite frankly get you fired at many companies so why do you consider it acceptable here? You ultimately only are making yourself look worse To the Ripe NCC Moderators/Admin team – if there is some formal channel that I can now make my complaint known or to request at the very least an immediate moderation of Elad Cohen’s submissions to this mailing list please urgently advise. I would like to formally agree with Cynthia and others’ complaints on this matter Back to the “idea” that triggered this particular wave of arguments, there are a huge number of fallacies with the idea * The required infrastructure globally would be phenomenal * It would also require far more systems level expertise than is realised (think database replication/caching etc) – especially when you compare this to say, operating one of the root level nameservers or AS112 or RPKI * It would for many place an unacceptable “single” point of failure in your proposed system * Who would pay for this service? How? What is the pricing model? * Centralising the management has issues * DATA protection/GPDR compliance – just because its hashed doesn’t make you any less responsible * Risk of hash collisions? – is this an issue to be concerned about? * Like Root Certificates – getting mail client vendors to update just for your system is going to be exceptionally difficult if not impossible) Now on the matter of centralising the running of such a system is problematic, especially when you consider that this system is fundamentally a trust based system, you are relying in faith that the responsible guardians of said systems are to be trusted to act responsibly and not to the detriment of others. For some operators in the internet space there are known issues of people doing bad stuff (BGP hijacking, internet shutdowns etc) and I know of at least one RIR (not RIPE) that has not exactly operated fully within their own constitutional mandate and processes in recent times. A good friend of mine and work colleague, Andrew Alston, recently wrote a related article about trust and centralisation as it relates to RPKI - https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/rpki-things-being-considered-andrew-alston/ a lot of the comments made there probably equally apply to any proposed mail filtering solution. To be totally frank – the only real way to solve the email spam problem is just to turn off email entirely and replace it with some other better architected solution, everything else is realistically a band-aid that people will find ways around. Kind Regards Anthony Somerset From: members-discuss < <mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> On Behalf Of Elad Cohen Sent: Monday, April 27, 2020 12:59 PM To: Cynthia Revström < <mailto:me@cynthia.re> me@cynthia.re>; Sascha Luck [ml] < <mailto:ripe-md@c4inet.net> ripe-md@c4inet.net> Cc: <mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Regarding Elad Cohen's nomination and emails Cynthia, The sick person which you are referring to and is your colleague from "The Spamhaus Project", defamed me for many many months, here in Ripe and in Nanog, he called me by many names without a single proof. He was called an antisemitic and a racist not by me - but by people which are not related to me in Nanog. After many months I provided an official response in Ripe. I didn't hear your voice when he defamed me for many many months with him calling me by many names. So obviously your interests are hidden. In the other working groups - I only replied to him, and I didn't hear your voice regarding your sick colleague initial message with name callings towards me when I only replied to his attack on me. And his personal attack on me is exactly like your personal attack on me now - you are afraid that an alternative solution to "The Spamhaus Project" will be implemented if I will be elected. Respectfully, Elad _____ From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> > on behalf of Cynthia Revström <me@cynthia.re <mailto:me@cynthia.re> > Sent: Monday, April 27, 2020 1:50 PM To: Sascha Luck [ml] <ripe-md@c4inet.net <mailto:ripe-md@c4inet.net> > Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> <members-discuss@ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> > Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Regarding Elad Cohen's nomination and emails

The RIPE *NCC* has no business either enforcing "professionality" on the *community* mailing lists - this is the WG chairs' responsibility.

AFAIK there are no WG chairs of members-discuss and members-discuss is a mailing list that the RIPE NCC hosts to let RIPE NCC members discuss RIPE NCC membership related topics, so I think they certainly have business enforcing people to be professional on this mailing list. I would also like to add that Elad has multiple times on different mailing lists ignored the WG chairs. Also this is happening across a variety of RIPE/RIPE NCC mailing lists that are all hosted by the RIPE NCC and as such I think it is their business to keep them to a professional standard.

If I'm wrong, where do

I submit the list of people I'd like to see excluded from the community? There should not be a long list of people, but when someone is behaving unprofessionally, calling people "coconut", being defamatory towards the RIPE NCC, ignoring WG chairs, I do think that they have gone too far and everything has a limit. Like we wouldn't allow someone to send sales emails to the mailing list as an example, aka limits on what is allowed. - Cynthia On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 12:43 PM Sascha Luck [ml] <ripe-md@c4inet.net <mailto:ripe-md@c4inet.net> > wrote: On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 12:02:59AM +0200, Cynthia Revstrm wrote:

I would like to propose that the RIPE NCC ban Elad Cohen from interacting with the RIPE Community (via Meetings or mailing lists) due to his blatant disregard for the Code of Conduct and for being hostile towards others in the community. As the RIPE NCC hosts and manages these lists I think the RIPE NCC has a responsibility to keep the lists professional and to remove those who repeatedly ignore what the WG chairs are saying.

The RIPE *NCC* has no business either enforcing "professionality" on the *community* mailing lists - this is the WG chairs' responsibility. Nor do I think the NCC should determine who can be a member of the RIPE community or not. If I'm wrong, where do I submit the list of people I'd like to see excluded from the community? I think this proposal is the most out-of-order thing I've yet seen in this thread. rgds, Sascha Luck

- Cynthia

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