- members-discuss - mailman.ripe.net

Discussion summary on GM voting
by Nigel Titley 15 Jul '14

15 Jul '14

Dear colleagues, I would like to provide a summary of the discussion that took place here on voting at the General Meetings. The Executive Board will meet in September and discuss the issues that were raised on this mailing list. Please read the summary and if you have further comments to make, please do so on this mailing list or you can contact the Executive Board directly at<exec-board(a)ripe.net>. Kind Regards, Nigel Titley RIPE NCC Executive Board Chairman Summary of Discussion on GM Voting The initial mail to members-discuss requested that paper voting and proxy voting be removed as GM voting options. Nigel noted that other members had also requested that the time period for voting should be extended. Below is a breakdown of the discussion, outlining the points raised and the number of members in favour or against each proposal. Removing proxy votes For: 2 - This is easily replaced by electronic voting. Against: 1 - If I don’t have the time/knowledge to vote, a colleague can cast vote, allowing higher and more qualified participation. There was a request for the approximate number of votes cast by proxy. This has ranged from 11 to 19 since the introduction of electronic voting. Removing paper votes For: 6 - We are a technical community so this would be a natural move. - It is safer, faster, more eco-friendly and more convenient to vote electronically. - The GM Voting Report provides receipts and is verifiable. Against: 4 - There are issues relating to privacy and verifiable trust. - I understand how paper voting works but not electronic voting. - Paper voting is fun. - Voting receipts are a problem as they may facilitate "buying" of votes. There was a suggestion that people should automatically be registered for electronic voting and have to actively change that if they want to vote by paper ballot. Extending the time period for voting For: 6 - I need more time to cast my vote. - Suggestions of 24 hours up to four days. Most common suggestion was for 24 hours. There were three comments that the announcement of results should be made before the end of the RIPE Meeting. Nigel noted that making the announcement on Friday should be possible. Against: 0 Maintain practice of opening the voting window after discussion at the GM For: 6 - Discussions and presentations can change people’s minds. - Most people’s minds are made up anyway and the material is available online. - A vote without discussion is not very democratic. Against: 3 - The materials are available beforehand. - People have usually made up their mind beforehand anyway. Other Issues - Have a plaintext voting email instead of HTML only. - Remove voting by acclamation from Articles of Association.

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Re: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association
by Brandon Butterworth 26 Jun '14

26 Jun '14

> 25 Jun 2014 19:35 lists-ripe(a)c4inet.net > a vote without debate leaves a bad taste, be it in $parliament or at > the NCC AGM. Indeed, it is not far away from a jury delivering a > verdict before the evidence has been presented. Nobody said no debate. At the moment you can vote without listening to the debate, what difference does it make being allowed to do the same the day before? I think it's unreasonable to insist all voters have to sit through it before being allowed to vote at all but if it is necessary (need a vote on that :) then lock the doors, anyone who leaves loses their vote, allow only physical votes. brandon

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Re: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association
by Nigel Titley 26 Jun '14

26 Jun '14

On 25/06/14 01:31, Rob Golding wrote: >> Well, this is one thing we were asking about. We currently allow a >> voting window of 16 hours (which is an improvement on the original 15 >> mins). How much time do you think would be reasonable? > I'd be happy with 2 days/48-hours > This would mean that the results wouldn't be available during the meeting (as we normally hold the members' meeting on Wednesday evening). If this isn't a problem then fine, but we've had indications that people like to know the result during the meeting. Nigel

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Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association
by _Network Operation Center (NOC) 25 Jun '14

25 Jun '14

Hello everybody, as a result of last weeks AGM and an intense discussion on the voting procedure I would like to request the Executive Board to put forward a resolution for the next General Meeting to abandon paper ballot voting. Reasoning: I inadvertently registered for electronic voting instead of paper ballot voting. By the time I realized my mistake I found out that the BigPulse electronic voting had already been set up and I couldn't change anymore. Then, after the AGM on Wednesday I actually was grateful, not having to make a choice in a matter of minutes, in order to turn in the paper ballots. I was also grateful that electronic voting only started at the end of Wednesdays AGM session, effectively preventing prematurely turned in votes. Not only took it some time and consideration putting six candidates in a row of preference. To make a good choice it was also essential to listen what each candidate had to say. I had enough time to sleep over it, talk to others, and re-read documents considering what had been said. This all added to a much more reflected vote. This also eases a number of things: Proxy Votes: No paper necessary anymore-register for electronic voting and forward the registration confirmation (which then should already contain the link to access the poll) to your proxy. Counting paper ballots: This is a manual process by which the cast paper ballots get entered into the same electronic voting system that the electronically cast votes end up in. With 5 resolutions plus 6 candidates times 119 paper ballots and a 4 (or more) eyes verification this takes hours of possibly error-prone monotony. That said, with the significant increase in the number of registered voters that the possibility to vote electronically and remotely stimulated, the possibility to vote by show of hands or acclamation seems at least questionable to me, since this would exclude the remote participants. This should be dropped as well. Best regards, Ulf Kieber Head of NOC green.ch AG

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Re: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association
by Brandon Butterworth 25 Jun '14

25 Jun '14

> 25 Jun 2014 18:46 sander(a)steffann.nl > I strongly disagree. This may be true for things that are published > months in advance and not further discussed during the AGM. At the last > AGM there was a lot of discussion on some subjects, and for me the > presentations of the candidates for the board also made a big > difference. People voting the day before are likely because they can't make the meeting so they won't see the presentations or discussion. Thus they should be considered not a valid opinion and barred from voting? They can't have prior or independently obtained data to form an opinion? > If people vote blindly then what point is there in having > an AGM with discussions in the first place? Those registered to attend the meeting could be blocked from voting prior to the presentation. You might have to force them to be in the room and not have their fingers in their ears too I don't think early voting should be an issue, usually it's hard enough to get people to vote at all so best not to discourage those that will. regards brandon

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Re: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association
by Brandon Butterworth 25 Jun '14

25 Jun '14

> On Tue, 24 Jun 2014, Nick Hilliard wrote: > No doubt BigPulse are a reputable company No idea but I don't trust any company that can't also include a plain text body, instead requiring the participant to trust more easily phishable vote email brandon

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Re: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association
by Brandon Butterworth 24 Jun '14

24 Jun '14

> that bit doesn't concern me, tbh. They make their business run on trust, > so if their trust breaks down, so does their business model. So probably > they are trustworthy. You're right but the conclusion doesn't follow. Plenty of banks etc are totally not trustworthy but stay in business by various means. Never underestimate the stupidity of the general public... > No doubt the magic is the right magic, but I don't understand it. I'm just > more comfortable with something I understand, both at each point along the > way and in its entirety. It's not a problem that it's really low tech. > Sometimes that's good if it means we can all understand how it works. I don't have a problem with it, the mental image is the paper process done by xkcd people inside a machine and we all trust xkcd so it must be trustworthy brandon

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Re: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association
by Brandon Butterworth 24 Jun '14

24 Jun '14

> We also feel that the current electronic voting window is sufficient to > allow all members in the service region to cast their votes (some > calculations show that if were to hold a General meeting in the easternmost > timezone in the region then the westernmost zone (Iceland) would still have > 2 hours of working time to cast their vote). However, if members > believe that the voting window should be extended we would > also like to hear from you. That sounds as tricky as trying to not miss the end of an ebay item I'm usually to distracted or in meetings and stuff. brandon

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remove automated ticket system reply from member discussion list
by Lu Heng 18 Jun '14

18 Jun '14

Dear Colleagues: I understand some large cooperation might need ticket system to sort out their Emails, but it is really getting annoying every time you reply to the member mailing list you get 4-5 none-human responds. Should we contact these organizations and ask them to put a real human Email for this list? -- -- Kind regards. Lu This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) shown above. It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by persons other than the intended addressee(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify this office immediately and e-mail the original at the sender's address above by replying to this message and including the text of the transmission received.

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Remove
by Joao Silveira 13 Jun '14

13 Jun '14

Please remove our mail addres from this discussion. -- Joao Silveira HQ: Rua 28 de Janeiro 350 - B11 - 4400-335 Vila Nova de Gaia | PORTUGAL Phone: +351 227 136 188 | Mobile: +351 912 386 351 Rio Office: Rua Pinheiro Guimarãees, 150 - 22281-080 Rio de Janeiro | BRAZIL Phone: +55 (21) 2538-2318 | Mobile: +55 (21) 99798-3523

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