- members-discuss - mailman.ripe.net

Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working from ripe DNS server
by Giuseppe Tanzilli - Serverplan 14 Jun '12

14 Jun '12

Hi, after the issue the ripe services had today evening, we still have one network whre delegation for reverse is still not working. Of course this is a nightmare as all mail traffic is affected. Anyone know a way to contact ripe support outside of office hours ? thanks -- -------------------------------------------------- Giuseppe Tanzilli Serverplan

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Interesting IP count
by Lu Heng 06 Jun '12

06 Jun '12

Hi Colleuages: Today I come across an very interesting article which I'd like to share with your guys and see what your guys think about it. http://ilia.ws/archives/236-ISP-Popularity-by-Domain-Count.html If what said in the article was true(which it should be as all the data from the article should be public data), if all the cable network start to use NAT, just in sense of domains, we might have IP supply for few more decades. And it would be very interesting if someone from Ripe NCC can share with us what is the most IP consuming business in the planet. In which, is that service can use NAT in sometime future? I talked to an UK telecom provider one day in a ripe lunch, he told me that their network is already partly using NAT(sorry I didn't remember his name, but I am sure he is on this mailing list), and he only need a /21 for entire network. And another thing was, I heard from one of my friend in the Apanic meeting, that someone is selling entire A class there for 10 USD/ IP. We don't know if there is already some successful story there regarding IP sales. But seems to me, based on what happened on Asian now, at least in China, as I heard from many of my colleagues there, there was no real shortage there at this time. No body goes bankrupt because of no IPs left. So that raise an interesting point, since 60% of the world domain is in fact wasted, is that the same story with IP usage. After all, we allocated almost half of the pool before RIR even exists. The current way of IP distributing results a very noneffective way of "past business" IP usage as well(e.g. someone changed their business from cable business to an enterprise business, of course that guy will not return Ripe NCC his additional free 2 M IPs). So when their is a real market for IPv4, and all the latency space come to sale, will we last much much longer than everybody expected? We our-self have few dozen of enterprise customers, and they are already paying 3-5 USD/ month /IP for years, as asking them to re-program their software and re-provision their business into IPv6, the cost will be enormous for them, and one more thing is, most software writers don't really like IPv6, as it is hard to remember and hard to type(it will be a whole lot easier if you just remember the IP and type it every time you have to do so, rather than copy paste, we all know the reason). So, even IP price eventually raise to 30USD even 50USD, it is still very hard for them to switch it over to IPv6 as long as they don't have IPv6-only client, because they are paying this amount of money for IP per year anyway. Another thing is, one thing aside from RIR meetings and ISP meetings, we didn't really hear a lot about IPv6. IPv6 come into developer is still something new and interesting, and one guy I talked in the IPv6 workshop in the Ripe64, a software developer for an Austria local company, who don't even know that IPv6 has been around for almost a decades. Since Ripe is almost finish it's public pools, my last question is, will one day all the wasted IP address being effectively picked up because of existing marketplace, and that market place will last us another 3 decades before we really going to IPv6 ear? Go Ipv6 Pro Last forever(this reason doesn't really come into play because it this can be a reason convince enterprise customer then it should be done 10 years ago.). unlimited amount of address space.(same as above) cost reasons. con: need new router new config new practice and testing almost every part of the business(from software to hardware). very hard to remember and write. (welcome to add more on this list) IPv4 pro you know how it works it works for all of our business life. it is easy to remember con cost reasons. But let's look at how much we are paying Ripe NCC now, for large ones, they are paying more coffee in the office than they are paying Ripe thing. So does that really hurts them when they pay 20USD per IP, look at their margin and their current costs structure, I would say for most business, it should be fine. If there is enough supply in the market for next decades, and keep the price well below 50 USD per IP, I believe 99% of business would accept this price and go on with their life. History already tell us most of us don't look too far to the future(otherwise we are already there). Hope my a bit of 2 cents can get more interesting thoughts come around. -- -- Kind regards. Lu This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) shown above. It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by persons other than the intended addressee(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify this office immediately and e-mail the original at the sender's address above by replying to this message and including the text of the transmission received.

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Re: [members-discuss] Interesting IP count
by Alexandr Saroyan 06 Jun '12

06 Jun '12

Hi, Dear friends, Don't forget that idea of the Internet is that each single host should be able to communicate to any other single host. I strongly believe and I think everyone on this mailing list sure that there are many approaches to live with IPv4. It is time to understand that all that are temporary solutions. Your life will become more and more hard if you go deeper and deeper with temporary solutions. There is class of "Specialists" for whom it is easier to deploy a temporary solution and say 'Hah it works' instead of making a bit effort to deploy something permanent. Each LIR is piece of the Internet - don't trust strategy of your piece to such lazy "Specialists". Don't think like "I need a solution", think like "I need stable, reliable and long lasting solution". Internet is in production service, it is not your grandmother's home LAN, each of you must feel responsibility. Temporary solution is bad for production and permanent solution is only and only good thing for growth and stability of any production system like Internet is. And finally: Stop counting IP addresses, just do your contribution to IPv6 deployment by deploying it within your piece of the Internet. As fast as we converge to IPv6 as fast we will remove all the bad stuff like NAT and will finally stop counting IP addresses. Best. /Alex -----Original Message----- From: members-discuss-bounces(a)ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net] On Behalf Of Rob Golding Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 6:04 PM To: members-discuss(a)ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Interesting IP count Lu Heng wrote ... > So, US are using 40% of total world IP supply for it's 10% of world > internet user base, while asian for years, is using about 10% of world > IP address to supply 40% of internet user base. > > In which, tells us that if US can free us even half of it's IP address > space, that will supply us maybe another decades. You make a *very* incorrect assumption: That the main use of IP addresses is "access" to the internet - completely ignoring all the devices/systems/networks/etc that hold those services you are accessing - the bulk of which are in the EU and US. IPv6 is not a new idea. Dual-Stacking is not a new idea. IMHO if you're still deploying systems and devices that only work v4 your business is about to die - attaching a bit of NAT based life-support isn't going to save it. Rob ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.

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Interesting IP count
by Lu Heng 05 Jun '12

05 Jun '12

Hi On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 9:55 AM, Gert Doering <gert(a)space.net> wrote: > Hi, > > On Tue, Jun 05, 2012 at 01:54:09AM +0200, Lu Heng wrote: >> In which, tells us that if US can free us even half of it's IP address >> space, that will supply us maybe another decades. > > This would be very ill-spent effort. > > If we do the same stupid things a few more decades, like "write new software > with IPv4 only, sell millions of phones and other gadgets with IPv4 only", > migration to something reasonable will be much *harder*. > > If we had done the IPv6 thing 5 years ago already, hardly any mobile > device would have been affected - today, there's millions of iThings and > Androids that don't support IPv6 on 3G - stupid and avoidable pain. > You are perfectly right, but in the real business world, 99% company operate exactly like how western country works--every CEO is in office for current amount of time, and most of them worry much more about this Q rather than 5 years later in which he might not even in office any more. So if today cost him 10m to fix the problem for 5 years, or cost him 20m to fix the problem forever, not many of them will go for 20m option. The real reason behind it, is just like Jeff said in the IPv6 workshop, most of us are technical people, with not real much of business practice in mind. > Gert Doering > -- NetMaster > -- > have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? > > SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard > Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann > D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) > Tel: +49 (89) 32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279 -- -- Kind regards. Lu This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) shown above. It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by persons other than the intended addressee(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify this office immediately and e-mail the original at the sender's address above by replying to this message and including the text of the transmission received. -- -- Kind regards. Lu This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) shown above. It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by persons other than the intended addressee(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify this office immediately and e-mail the original at the sender's address above by replying to this message and including the text of the transmission received.

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ISP IRC channel
by Lu Heng 11 May '12

11 May '12

Hi Does anybody know any commom ISP tech channel that my tech guy can join and discuss(abuse, networking quality etc) -- -- Kind regards. Lu This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) shown above. It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by persons other than the intended addressee(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify this office immediately and e-mail the original at the sender's address above by replying to this message and including the text of the transmission received.

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Re: [members-discuss] [rt.smartbunker.net #1622] AutoReply: Re: amendment proposal for the Article of association
by James Blessing 28 Mar '12

28 Mar '12

On 28/03/2012 11:49, SmartBunker Ops via RT wrote: > > > Thank you for you're email. > > There is no need to reply to this message right now. Your ticket has been > assigned an ID of [rt.smartbunker.net #1622]. Please include this string > in the subject line of all future correspondence about this issue. Please someone fix this before Nigel starts writing poetry... J -- James Blessing +44 7989 039 476 Strategic Relations Manager, EMEA Limelight Networks

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Re: [members-discuss] amendment proposal for the Article of association
by poty＠iiat.ru 28 Mar '12

28 Mar '12

Hello, My point of view - the idea behind Sergey's suggestion is clear - give more power to the active part of the membership. I support this idea, because it solves two important things: 1. The "additional" topics for the GM agenda are not decided by some private conversations to the EB, even if there is a way to get in touch with Nigel or someone else from the EB. Why should there be difference in the procedure of adding a topic in case of "one person ask EB to add this" or "you should have to have 180 people writing the petition to the EB to be able to add the topic directly"? The transparency of the whole procedure will increase when we lower the 2% threshold. As an example of this I can say about RPKI voting on the last GM - "someone" decided - every members have to abide. There was no 2% discussions, nor transparency about who and with what authority added this topic to the agenda. 2. There is no way to influence the agenda after it is published - just no time for this, according to the AoA. This is what happened on the last GM, where most of the members presented were asking for some changes/additions and it was impossible to do that, so the GM was like a farce, where everybody plays their roles knowing the absurd situation. Relating proxy voting and hostage of the agenda - there are topics which are in the agenda by AoA, nobody ask a person to stay the whole GM and vote for every resolution (instead of have some beer)! And is "many voices - more power" not the sign of democracy we all are talking about in all case of vote procedures? I'm against also about the representation of EB for members will. The voting for EB membership is seldom and not flex enough to live with so huge customer base. Regards, Vladislav Potapov Ru.iiat

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amendment proposal for the Article of association
by sergey myasoedov 28 Mar '12

28 Mar '12

Dear members of the RIPE NCC, as you probably know, there are more than 8.000 members in the RIPE NCC association. There are a lot of us. Members of the association can discuss things regarding the activity of association on General Meetings two times yearly. According to the Article of Association (AoA), the Agenda of GM has been performed by executive board. There are some obligative things to be included in the Agenda (elections, budget, charging scheme etc), and some things can be discussed upon proposal of the EB. Another possiblity to put some things into Agenda is the request of association members. Currently at least 2% of members should vote for adding items into Agenda. Respective to the total number of members this means that _160_ LIRs should ask the EB to discuss something that is not included in the Agenda. From my opinion that is too much. No more than 250-300 members are usually attending GM, even with the electronic voting. And 2% threshold means ~50% of active members, so there is no possibility to raise any question to the GM level. And this is the reason for my proposal: to change the threshold in the section 15.6 of AoA to 0.3% or to 30 or 40 members. Any suggestions? Appendix: Article 15 of AoA Article 15 – General Meeting: Convocations. Agenda. Resolutions 15.1 The Executive Board shall send the convocations for the General Meeting, including the agenda containing the subjects for the General Meeting, a URL to the verbatim text of the proposed resolutions and, if applicable, the draft Activity Plan and draft budget, to the Members at least four weeks before the Meeting. In the event the Executive Board does not have full authority under paragraph 10.1 of these Articles of Association, the authority to convoke a meeting shall be vested in the Management Team. 15.2 General Meetings shall be convened by the Executive Board by e-mails sent to the e-mail addresses as recorded in the Register (see article 5). 15.3 The agenda for the Annual Meeting shall include the following subjects: a. the adoption of the Financial Report; b. the discharge of the Executive Board with regard to its actions as they appear from the Annual Report; c. the filling of any vacancies in the Executive Board. 15.4 The following subjects shall be placed on the agenda for the Annual Meeting or on the agenda for another General Meeting to be held in the same calendar year: a. a discussion of the draft Activity Plan and draft budget after a presentation by the Executive Board; b. the adoption of the Charging Scheme with respect to the coming financial year upon proposal of the Executive Board; c. a discussion of the policy and the quality of services (to be) rendered by the Association. 15.5 If applicable, the agenda for the Annual Meeting or another General Meeting shall also include the following subjects: a. the extension of the period within which the Executive Board shall submit the Annual Report (as referred to in paragraph 14.2), which shall also constitute an extension of the period within which the Annual Meeting - at which the Annual Report is to be submitted - shall be held; b. the filling of any vacancies in the Executive Board; c. upon proposal by the Executive Board: adoption of amendments to the Standard Service Agreement; d. upon proposal by the Executive Board: approval of new arbiters and/or dismissal of current arbiters and/or adoption of amendments to the arbitration procedure; e. other proposals and/or discussion points put forward by the Executive Board or (a group of) Members of the Association (pursuant to paragraph 15.6) and announced in the convocation for the Meeting. 15.6 On the written application of a group of Members who are jointly entitled to cast at least two percent (2%) of the total number of possible votes, other subjects will be added to the agenda. Such an application, accompanied by the verbatim text of the resolutions proposed by the said Members, shall have to be sent to the Executive Board at least two weeks before the Meeting. The Executive Board shall immediately send the verbatim text of the resolutions proposed by the said Members to all the Members of the Association. 15.7 The General Meeting may only vote on resolutions with respect to subjects for which the verbatim text of the related proposed resolutions has been sent to the Members in the manner set out above. 15.8 On the written application of a group of Members who are jointly entitled to cast at least one-tenth (10%) of the total number of possible votes, the Executive Board shall convene a General Meeting within a period of four weeks. If the application has not been complied with within fourteen days, the applicants may then proceed to convene the Meeting themselves in the manner in which the General Meeting is convened by the Executive Board. 15.9 As long as all the Members of the Association are present or represented at a General Meeting, (legally) valid resolutions can be passed on all subjects brought up for discussion, even if the formalities prescribed by law or by these Articles of Association for the convocation and holding of Meetings have not been complied with, provided such resolutions are passed unanimously. -- Kind regards, sergey myasoedov

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Update on RIPE NCC Police order
by Nigel Titley 27 Mar '12

27 Mar '12

Dear All, On the subject of the "Police Order" the RIPE NCC received last year, I would like to let you know what has been happening since then. As reported earlier, the RIPE NCC has sought legal advice and, having received that, decided to unfreeze the resources we were ordered to freeze under the police order. This was done in close communication with the Dutch officials involved. Further to that, the RIPE NCC legal team has drawn up a summons, which has been lodged with the court in The Hague. (The full Dutch text as well as a short English summary is available at https://www.ripe.net/internet-coordination/news/about-ripe-ncc-and-ripe/sum…) A reply from the Dutch State is expected in June; what happens after that depends on the course of action the court decides to take. I'm afraid we don't expect a final decision before mid 2013. I'll keep you fully updated as things unfold. Best regards, Nigel Titley Chairman RIPE NCC

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Surprise on renew fees
by LIR 18 Feb '12

18 Feb '12

We have received the message with fees for year 2012, and we've been surprised, because we've been 'upgraded' from extra-small to small. I feel quite strange being now classified as small, because we are using the smallest assignment possible (one /21 IPv4, one /32 IPv6, one AS). I studied the computational algorithm for assigning points, and I feel quite strange points for IPv4 being calculated this way: (first year of allocation LESS 1992) * IPv4 units; in our case, this means => 2011 - 1992 * 1 => 19. See http://www.ripe.net/lir-services/member-support/info/billing/how-to-calcula… for scoring method. This means every one asking first block allocation after year 2008 will be classified SMALL, despite of his real dimensions and resources. This is quite punishing for new comers like us, and not fair at all as a fee computing method. It looks like more we asked far from year 1992, more we have to pay. I don't see really a logic in this method. Any opinion? Can someone enlight me please? Antonio Nati

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