Throwing my name in the hat as well. Received the same message. Agree with the others here. On 10/10/2016 09:28 AM, Christian Seitz wrote:

Hello Nick,

Am 10.10.2016 um 16:20 schrieb Nick Hilliard:

...

I've received several copies of the template email below about several different address ranges, all sent to email addresses culled from the RIPE Database. They all appear to originate from Cyprian Nica / IP Broker Ltd. same here, sent to ripe and abuse contact from the RIPE database. IP Broker Ltd. told me I had an unused IPv4 prefix, because it's not routed globally. The prefix in question is an IXP peering LAN prefix...

Spamming from IPv4 Brokers should really be stopped, because this IMHO is a violation of the policies.

Regards,

Christian Seitz Head of Network

On Oct 10, 2016, at 18:12, Ciprian Nica <office@ip-broker.uk> wrote: I apologize to anyone that was disturbed by my e-mail. I have tried not to send any duplicates and limited as much as possible any discomfort. I'm not doing this on a regular basis and probably you've never got an e-mail from me before.

I am not sure what the RIPE policies are here and if you have or have not violated them, but I believe your approach is reasonably proportionate, targeted and acceptable, and on my scale of what constitutes spam, I’d say this is pretty far down my list of concerns! Thanks, John John Greenhalgh Manager, Network Planning O3b Networks Email: john.greenhalgh@o3bnetworks.com Privileged/Confidential Information may be contained in this message or attachments thereto. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone or take any action in reliance upon this message. In such case, you should destroy this message and any attachments and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message

Cyprian, You used a specific email address that has only ever been used by me in the RIPE database. If you have used it, and particularly if you have used it in association with a specific range of RIPE NCC-assigned ipv4 addresses, it means that this information has been pulled either directly or indirectly from the RIPE database. Nick

Ciprian Nica <mailto:office@ip-broker.uk> 10 October 2016 at 16:12 Hi Nick,

First of all, I have not used the ripe database contact info to send marketing, advertising or anything to promote a service or product.

I apologize to anyone that was disturbed by my e-mail. I have tried not to send any duplicates and limited as much as possible any discomfort. I'm not doing this on a regular basis and probably you've never got an e-mail from me before.

There are 43 million IP addresses which are allocated in RIPE region and are not announced in the global BGP table. Of course there are some which are not announced on purpose and to those I apologize again. But there are many IP addresses which are not in use and the only way to get in touch with the users is by contacting them using obviously publicly available contact information.

I have e-mailed contacts for specific subnets that were checked to be not advertised. How else should we get the IPs to the market ? There's no tool provided by RIPE or any other solution to push this huge amount to the market. Maybe some are concerned that bringing up the unused space will lower the prices. Well, I am not supporting those who sit on huge amount of IPs and seek prices in the 10+ EUR range. I really hope IPv6 will move quicker and in a couple of years no IPv4 will have value so while there is still some demand, we're doing our best to find the supply, to dig it up to the surface.

So, once again at this moment there are over 43 million IPs in the RIPE region only that are not advertised in the BGP table. The total amount of IPs transferred over the past 4 years in the RIPE region is ~27 million.

I apologize if my method was too extreme and have upset some people but I promise not to bother you again. Most likely there are people who just sit on the resources and don't care about other's needs. We can't seem to be able to lift their butts off them.

Have a nice week, Ciprian

Nick Hilliard <mailto:nick@netability.ie> 10 October 2016 at 15:20 I've received several copies of the template email below about several different address ranges, all sent to email addresses culled from the RIPE Database. They all appear to originate from Cyprian Nica / IP Broker Ltd.

In order to be listed as an IP broker on the RIPE web site, it is necessary to sign the "Recognised IPv4 Transfer Broker Agreement". This includes the following text:

...

The Broker shall adhere to the relevant RIPE Policies and RIPE NCC procedural documents, [...]

The RIPE Database T&Cs include the following text:

...

Users may not use the RIPE Database or the data contained therein for advertising, direct marketing, marketing research or similar purposes.

Could the RIPE NCC kindly confirm whether or not spamming contact email address gleaned from the RIPE DB is a violation of the Recognised IPv4 Transfer Broker Agreement?

If this isn't a violation, could the Board consider specifically adding an anti-spamming term into the IP Broker T&Cs listing?

Nick

Ciprian Nica wrote:

...

Dear Sirs,

My name is Ciprian Nica and I'm the CEO of IP Broker Ltd, one of the first IPv4 Address brokers in the RIPE region. I am contacting you regarding the block of 256 IPv4 addresses (from x.x.x.0 to 'y.y.y.255') which according to our data seems to be not in use as they are not announced in the global BGP table.

If you no longer need these IP addresses then it is a good moment to sell them. The global IPv6 deployment rate is around 15% while in USA is around 30% so in a couple of years IPv4 might become worthless again.

Of course that besides the subnet mentioned above there might be some other blocks that you might not need. Please let us know all the blocks of IP addresses that you no longer need and we will do our best to sell them in a fast and secure way.

...

Thank you, Ciprian Nica CEO IP Broker Limited t: +44 20 339 339 91

---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/

Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cyprian, Thank you for confirming that you used RIPE Database information for direct marketing purposes. RIPE NCC: can you confirm whether or not using RIPE Database information for direct marketing purposes is a violation of the Recognised IPv4 Transfer Broker Agreement? Nick

Ciprian Nica <mailto:office@ip-broker.uk> 10 October 2016 at 16:25 Yes, I have used the specific contact details for the specific block. How can anyone get in contact with the user of a specific block of IPs if not by using the contact details listed for that block ?

I didn't deny that, I only said that I didn't dig for a bunch of e-mails to send a spam advertising some service or product. I specifically contacted the listed persons for each specific block that I've found to be unused.

Once again I apologize if sending you a single e-mail for a specific block that is not in use really causes so much trouble.

Nick Hilliard <mailto:nick@netability.ie> 10 October 2016 at 16:20 Cyprian,

You used a specific email address that has only ever been used by me in the RIPE database. If you have used it, and particularly if you have used it in association with a specific range of RIPE NCC-assigned ipv4 addresses, it means that this information has been pulled either directly or indirectly from the RIPE database.

Nick

Ciprian Nica <mailto:office@ip-broker.uk> 10 October 2016 at 16:12 Hi Nick,

First of all, I have not used the ripe database contact info to send marketing, advertising or anything to promote a service or product.

I apologize to anyone that was disturbed by my e-mail. I have tried not to send any duplicates and limited as much as possible any discomfort. I'm not doing this on a regular basis and probably you've never got an e-mail from me before.

There are 43 million IP addresses which are allocated in RIPE region and are not announced in the global BGP table. Of course there are some which are not announced on purpose and to those I apologize again. But there are many IP addresses which are not in use and the only way to get in touch with the users is by contacting them using obviously publicly available contact information.

I have e-mailed contacts for specific subnets that were checked to be not advertised. How else should we get the IPs to the market ? There's no tool provided by RIPE or any other solution to push this huge amount to the market. Maybe some are concerned that bringing up the unused space will lower the prices. Well, I am not supporting those who sit on huge amount of IPs and seek prices in the 10+ EUR range. I really hope IPv6 will move quicker and in a couple of years no IPv4 will have value so while there is still some demand, we're doing our best to find the supply, to dig it up to the surface.

So, once again at this moment there are over 43 million IPs in the RIPE region only that are not advertised in the BGP table. The total amount of IPs transferred over the past 4 years in the RIPE region is ~27 million.

I apologize if my method was too extreme and have upset some people but I promise not to bother you again. Most likely there are people who just sit on the resources and don't care about other's needs. We can't seem to be able to lift their butts off them.

Have a nice week, Ciprian

Nick Hilliard <mailto:nick@netability.ie> 10 October 2016 at 15:20 I've received several copies of the template email below about several different address ranges, all sent to email addresses culled from the RIPE Database. They all appear to originate from Cyprian Nica / IP Broker Ltd.

In order to be listed as an IP broker on the RIPE web site, it is necessary to sign the "Recognised IPv4 Transfer Broker Agreement". This includes the following text:

...

The Broker shall adhere to the relevant RIPE Policies and RIPE NCC procedural documents, [...]

The RIPE Database T&Cs include the following text:

...

Users may not use the RIPE Database or the data contained therein for advertising, direct marketing, marketing research or similar purposes.

Could the RIPE NCC kindly confirm whether or not spamming contact email address gleaned from the RIPE DB is a violation of the Recognised IPv4 Transfer Broker Agreement?

If this isn't a violation, could the Board consider specifically adding an anti-spamming term into the IP Broker T&Cs listing?

Nick

Ciprian Nica wrote:

...

Dear Sirs,

My name is Ciprian Nica and I'm the CEO of IP Broker Ltd, one of the first IPv4 Address brokers in the RIPE region. I am contacting you regarding the block of 256 IPv4 addresses (from x.x.x.0 to 'y.y.y.255') which according to our data seems to be not in use as they are not announced in the global BGP table.

If you no longer need these IP addresses then it is a good moment to sell them. The global IPv6 deployment rate is around 15% while in USA is around 30% so in a couple of years IPv4 might become worthless again.

Of course that besides the subnet mentioned above there might be some other blocks that you might not need. Please let us know all the blocks of IP addresses that you no longer need and we will do our best to sell them in a fast and secure way.

...

Thank you, Ciprian Nica CEO IP Broker Limited t: +44 20 339 339 91

---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/

Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Nick, This behaviour is a violation of the RIPE Database Terms and Conditions, in particular the provision that you mentioned. We do take this seriously, as our members trust us with their data and expect us to intervene if it is misused. We will follow up with Ciprian offline. However, this is not a violation of the Recognised IPv4 Transfer Broker Agreement. According to the agreement "The Broker shall adhere to the relevant RIPE Policies and RIPE NCC procedural documents…” The RIPE Database Terms and Conditions are neither of these. You can see the template agreement here: https://www.ripe.net/manage-ips-and-asns/resource-transfers-and-mergers/tran... Kind regards, Athina Fragkouli Head of Legal RIPE NCC On 10/10/16 17:31, Nick Hilliard wrote:

Cyprian,

Thank you for confirming that you used RIPE Database information for direct marketing purposes.

RIPE NCC: can you confirm whether or not using RIPE Database information for direct marketing purposes is a violation of the Recognised IPv4 Transfer Broker Agreement?

Nick

...

Ciprian Nica <mailto:office@ip-broker.uk> 10 October 2016 at 16:25 Yes, I have used the specific contact details for the specific block. How can anyone get in contact with the user of a specific block of IPs if not by using the contact details listed for that block ?

I didn't deny that, I only said that I didn't dig for a bunch of e-mails to send a spam advertising some service or product. I specifically contacted the listed persons for each specific block that I've found to be unused.

Once again I apologize if sending you a single e-mail for a specific block that is not in use really causes so much trouble.

Nick Hilliard <mailto:nick@netability.ie> 10 October 2016 at 16:20 Cyprian,

You used a specific email address that has only ever been used by me in the RIPE database. If you have used it, and particularly if you have used it in association with a specific range of RIPE NCC-assigned ipv4 addresses, it means that this information has been pulled either directly or indirectly from the RIPE database.

Nick

Ciprian Nica <mailto:office@ip-broker.uk> 10 October 2016 at 16:12 Hi Nick,

First of all, I have not used the ripe database contact info to send marketing, advertising or anything to promote a service or product.

I apologize to anyone that was disturbed by my e-mail. I have tried not to send any duplicates and limited as much as possible any discomfort. I'm not doing this on a regular basis and probably you've never got an e-mail from me before.

There are 43 million IP addresses which are allocated in RIPE region and are not announced in the global BGP table. Of course there are some which are not announced on purpose and to those I apologize again. But there are many IP addresses which are not in use and the only way to get in touch with the users is by contacting them using obviously publicly available contact information.

I have e-mailed contacts for specific subnets that were checked to be not advertised. How else should we get the IPs to the market ? There's no tool provided by RIPE or any other solution to push this huge amount to the market. Maybe some are concerned that bringing up the unused space will lower the prices. Well, I am not supporting those who sit on huge amount of IPs and seek prices in the 10+ EUR range. I really hope IPv6 will move quicker and in a couple of years no IPv4 will have value so while there is still some demand, we're doing our best to find the supply, to dig it up to the surface.

So, once again at this moment there are over 43 million IPs in the RIPE region only that are not advertised in the BGP table. The total amount of IPs transferred over the past 4 years in the RIPE region is ~27 million.

I apologize if my method was too extreme and have upset some people but I promise not to bother you again. Most likely there are people who just sit on the resources and don't care about other's needs. We can't seem to be able to lift their butts off them.

Have a nice week, Ciprian

Nick Hilliard <mailto:nick@netability.ie> 10 October 2016 at 15:20 I've received several copies of the template email below about several different address ranges, all sent to email addresses culled from the RIPE Database. They all appear to originate from Cyprian Nica / IP Broker Ltd.

In order to be listed as an IP broker on the RIPE web site, it is necessary to sign the "Recognised IPv4 Transfer Broker Agreement". This includes the following text:

...

The Broker shall adhere to the relevant RIPE Policies and RIPE NCC procedural documents, [...]

The RIPE Database T&Cs include the following text:

...

Users may not use the RIPE Database or the data contained therein for advertising, direct marketing, marketing research or similar purposes.

Could the RIPE NCC kindly confirm whether or not spamming contact email address gleaned from the RIPE DB is a violation of the Recognised IPv4 Transfer Broker Agreement?

If this isn't a violation, could the Board consider specifically adding an anti-spamming term into the IP Broker T&Cs listing?

Nick

Ciprian Nica wrote:

...

Dear Sirs,

My name is Ciprian Nica and I'm the CEO of IP Broker Ltd, one of the first IPv4 Address brokers in the RIPE region. I am contacting you regarding the block of 256 IPv4 addresses (from x.x.x.0 to 'y.y.y.255') which according to our data seems to be not in use as they are not announced in the global BGP table.

If you no longer need these IP addresses then it is a good moment to sell them. The global IPv6 deployment rate is around 15% while in USA is around 30% so in a couple of years IPv4 might become worthless again.

Of course that besides the subnet mentioned above there might be some other blocks that you might not need. Please let us know all the blocks of IP addresses that you no longer need and we will do our best to sell them in a fast and secure way.

...

Thank you, Ciprian Nica CEO IP Broker Limited t: +44 20 339 339 91

---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/

Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. ------------------------------------------------------------------------

---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/

Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.

Andy On 11/10/16 17:38, Andy Smith wrote:

Hi Athina,

On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 03:19:41PM +0200, Athina Fragkouli wrote:

...

According to the agreement "The Broker shall adhere to the relevant RIPE Policies and RIPE NCC procedural documents…” The RIPE Database Terms and Conditions are neither of these.

In that case what do we need to do to make abiding by the terms of use of the RIPE Database part of the Broker agreement? Looking at Cyprian's behaviour here, they are quite willing to break the terms of the Database agreement and then when called on it they would prefer to grill other LIRs in public about their use of resources than accept that their own behaviour is wrong.

Without making adherence to the Database terms also part of the Broker terms, I don't see what is now to stop all brokers doing this as there is a clear benefit to them in doing so.

RIPE NCC legal and the Board is looking at how to make adherence to the terms of use of the RIPE Database a condition of the Broker agreement. As various people have pointed out most brokers already adhere to this anyway so this shouldn't be rocket science. Of course I'm not a lawyer... All the best Nigel

From me there was ony a single e-mail sent.

[root@215038 ~]# grep snowflakeops.ch /var/log/maillog Oct 10 15:43:14 215038 sendmail[23682]: u9AChE1w023682: to= team@snowflakeops.ch,abuse@snowflakeops.ch, ctladdr= ciprian.nica@ip-broker.uk (0/0), delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=relay, pri=61139, relay=[127.0.0.1] [127.0.0.1], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (u9AChEoa023683 Message accepted for delivery) Oct 10 15:43:20 215038 sendmail[23685]: u9AChEoa023683: to=< abuse@snowflakeops.ch>,<team@snowflakeops.ch>, delay=00:00:06, xdelay=00:00:06, mailer=esmtp, pri=151378, relay=mx2.nine.ch. [IPv6:2a02:418:4003::168], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (from MTA(smtp:[127.0.0.1]:10025): 250 2.0.0 Ok: queued as 01F282A06D7) I can't be 100% sure but I did my best not to send two e-mails to the same person even if I've found more subnets that were not used and had the same contact. Ciprian On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 7:06 PM, snowflake Ops <team@snowflakeops.ch> wrote:

On 10.10.2016 17:25, Ciprian Nica wrote:

...

Once again I apologize if sending you a single e-mail for a specific block that is not in use really causes so much trouble.

That sounds quite reasonable. However, i received this mail six times, regarding our last /22 allocated on September 22 and announced a few days after. That does not seem so reasonable after all.

-andri

---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/

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Seriously chill out, so they emailed you, big deal! Sure this kind of behaviour is to be discouraged, but you are taking this to seriously, if you feel that strongly just report it through RIPE's standard abuse pathway and stop spamming this list with your childish complaint. IMHO this isn't even spam, it constitutes unwelcome solicitation, not advertising. -Tim On 10 Oct 2016 7:47 p.m., "Gert Doering" <gert@space.net> wrote:

Hi,

On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 06:12:05PM +0300, Ciprian Nica wrote:

...

First of all, I have not used the ripe database contact info to send marketing, advertising or anything to promote a service or product.

You have. I have received your mail to an address that is exclusively used in the RIPE database (as a notify: in our maintainers). There is no other place that would make a connection between the /22 in question and *that* mail address.

Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...?

SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279

---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/

Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.

On 10 Oct 2016, at 20:31, Ciprian Nica <office@ip-broker.uk<mailto:office@ip-broker.uk>> wrote: Hi, Thank you Tim and the others that were not so harsh against my method. As I have promised, I'm not doing this on a regular basis and I think that you are right, whoever has a problem with my e-mails, just send a complain. This is not the place to start a fight unless you have a personal problem with me or with my business. It's not the emails you sent that are the real problem (at least here in NL it's legal), it's the abuse of the RIPE-db that is the real problem: % The RIPE Database is subject to Terms and Conditions. % See http://www.ripe.net/db/support/db-terms-conditions.pdf Especially 4.4: "Users may not use the RIPE Database or the data contained therein for advertising, direct marketing, marketing research or similar purposes" -- Met vriendelijke groet, Arjan van der Oest Lead Mobile Engineer Voiceworks BV - Oplagestraat 1 - 1321 NK Almere Mobile : +31 6 8686 0000 Office : +31 36 7606656 GPG key on http://keyserver.pgp.com/ Key fingerprint = C58F 55CA C62A 5A49 15E0 2271 3481 6020 997E EE99 On 10 Oct 2016, at 20:31, Ciprian Nica <office@ip-broker.uk<mailto:office@ip-broker.uk>> wrote: Hi, Thank you Tim and the others that were not so harsh against my method. As I have promised, I'm not doing this on a regular basis and I think that you are right, whoever has a problem with my e-mails, just send a complain. This is not the place to start a fight unless you have a personal problem with me or with my business. I will be in Madrid for RIPE73 and anyone that has to say anything, I'll be available over there. Let's not escalate this unnecessarily. Have a nice week, Ciprian On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 9:28 PM, Tim Armstrong <t.armstrong@nerdalize.com<mailto:t.armstrong@nerdalize.com>> wrote: Seriously chill out, so they emailed you, big deal! Sure this kind of behaviour is to be discouraged, but you are taking this to seriously, if you feel that strongly just report it through RIPE's standard abuse pathway and stop spamming this list with your childish complaint. IMHO this isn't even spam, it constitutes unwelcome solicitation, not advertising. -Tim On 10 Oct 2016 7:47 p.m., "Gert Doering" <gert@space.net<mailto:gert@space.net>> wrote: Hi, On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 06:12:05PM +0300, Ciprian Nica wrote:

First of all, I have not used the ripe database contact info to send marketing, advertising or anything to promote a service or product.

You have. I have received your mail to an address that is exclusively used in the RIPE database (as a notify: in our maintainers). There is no other place that would make a connection between the /22 in question and *that* mail address. Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444<tel:%2B49%20%280%2989%2F32356-444> USt-IdNr.: DE813185279 ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.

Is the offer to purchase perceieved unused IPv4 address unsolicited marketing? Surely not. The guy simply made an offer to purchase. I can't believe how many people are on their high horses over this. Delete the email and move on. We're meant to be professionals. Surely gone are our keyboard warrior days? On 10 Oct 2016 7:35 p.m., "Arjan van der Oest" < Arjan.vanderOest@voiceworks.com> wrote:

On 10 Oct 2016, at 20:31, Ciprian Nica <office@ip-broker.uk> wrote:

Hi,

Thank you Tim and the others that were not so harsh against my method. As I have promised, I'm not doing this on a regular basis and I think that you are right, whoever has a problem with my e-mails, just send a complain. This is not the place to start a fight unless you have a personal problem with me or with my business.

It's not the emails you sent that are the real problem (at least here in NL it's legal), it's the abuse of the RIPE-db that is the real problem:

% The RIPE Database is subject to Terms and Conditions. % See http://www.ripe.net/db/support/db-terms-conditions.pdf

Especially 4.4: "Users may not use the RIPE Database or the data contained therein for advertising, direct marketing, marketing research or similar purposes"

-- Met vriendelijke groet,

Arjan van der Oest Lead Mobile Engineer

Voiceworks BV - Oplagestraat 1 - 1321 NK Almere Mobile : +31 6 8686 0000 Office : +31 36 7606656 GPG key on http://keyserver.pgp.com/ Key fingerprint = C58F 55CA C62A 5A49 15E0 2271 3481 6020 997E EE99

On 10 Oct 2016, at 20:31, Ciprian Nica <office@ip-broker.uk> wrote:

Hi,

Thank you Tim and the others that were not so harsh against my method. As I have promised, I'm not doing this on a regular basis and I think that you are right, whoever has a problem with my e-mails, just send a complain. This is not the place to start a fight unless you have a personal problem with me or with my business.

I will be in Madrid for RIPE73 and anyone that has to say anything, I'll be available over there. Let's not escalate this unnecessarily.

Have a nice week, Ciprian

On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 9:28 PM, Tim Armstrong <t.armstrong@nerdalize.com> wrote:

...

Seriously chill out, so they emailed you, big deal! Sure this kind of behaviour is to be discouraged, but you are taking this to seriously, if you feel that strongly just report it through RIPE's standard abuse pathway and stop spamming this list with your childish complaint.

IMHO this isn't even spam, it constitutes unwelcome solicitation, not advertising.

-Tim

On 10 Oct 2016 7:47 p.m., "Gert Doering" <gert@space.net> wrote:

...

Hi,

On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 06:12:05PM +0300, Ciprian Nica wrote:

...

First of all, I have not used the ripe database contact info to send marketing, advertising or anything to promote a service or product.

You have. I have received your mail to an address that is exclusively used in the RIPE database (as a notify: in our maintainers). There is no other place that would make a connection between the /22 in question and *that* mail address.

Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...?

SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279

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Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.

---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/

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Hi, Do we need a whitelist of IP blocks/ASNs/@addresses that brokers shouldn't ever try to reach? :-) Cheers, Carlos Friaças On Mon, 10 Oct 2016, Martin List-Petersen wrote:

On 10/10/16 19:59, Stuart Gilbertson | Consider IT Limited wrote:

...

Is the offer to purchase perceieved unused IPv4 address unsolicited marketing? Surely not. The guy simply made an offer to purchase.

I can't believe how many people are on their high horses over this. Delete the email and move on. We're meant to be professionals. Surely gone are our keyboard warrior days?

The issue is, this is a constant thing. Not by this broker, but also by other brokers.

If it was a once off, nobody would have a problem. But it has become common place just to farm the RIPEdb, then spam away.

The data in the RIPEdb is not for commerce. Full stop. It's for admin, billing and tech purposes. Operational purposes.

Marketing, sales and purchase are not to be based upon that data. Full stop.

Kind regards, Martin List-Petersen -- Airwire Ltd. - Ag Nascadh Pobail an Iarthair http://www.airwire.ie Phone: 091-865 968 Registered Office: Moy, Kinvara, Co. Galway, 091-865 968 - Registered in Ireland No. 508961

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[OT] flame flame flame :D anyway you don't like to be contacted. Ignore the emails , that have a very explicit subject . i've never seen a lively discussion as this , neither when providers - wellknown providers - are used as spam bastions . anyway continue to flame it's solving my boring tuesday :) M. [OT] Il 11/10/2016 09:08, Marek Isalski ha scritto:

...

On 10 Oct 2016, at 20:22, Martin List-Petersen <martin@airwire.ie> wrote: The issue is, this is a constant thing. Not by this broker, but also by other brokers. I'm amazed at how many "IP Brokers" offering "totally legitimate and trustworthy services" will hide behind incorporations in tax havens (seen spam from several that are "headquartered" at "managed postboxes" in e.g. Seychelles); or recently formed in jurisdictions where there is secrecy of directors and/or shareholders; or are incorporated at addresses that are clearly meant to be a dead-end (e.g. above a laundrette, or at a "company formations" company rather than an office or a director's personal address); and there's those that just can't file their paperwork on time and are about to be struck off the relevant register of companies.

Regardless of business practices - spamming or not spamming RIPE DB addresses, etc - due diligence looking at https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08557028 would deeply trouble me were I considering using someone as a broker/escrow/agent/etc.

Marek Isalski Technical Director, Faelix Limited, https://faelix.net/

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Probably some are disturbed by the single e-mail that I've sent Hi Ciprian, Let me express why I am disturbed. Like others, I have received solicitations to sell which are directed to an email address used only in one place: as a Whois contact. Unlike others, I am a broker who has resisted the impulse to use Whois for marketing purposes. The point I am making is that what you have done is beyond the terms of Whois access. If you feel you have the right to do this, why should I resist? As far as I know, almost every legitimate broker recognized by the trading registries has not engaged in this activity. And I certainly do count you among legitimate brokers. If this community wants to allow Whois to be used for marketing purposes, I wish it would be made clear, otherwise it risks a race-to-the-bottom among brokers, and more spam. No grudge, Ciprian, and I hope to work with you again in the future. Regards, Mike Burns IPTrading.com From: members-discuss [mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net] On Behalf Of Ciprian Nica Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 4:11 AM To: members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Spam from Cyprian Nica / IP Broker Limited (Re: Inquiry regarding availability for subnet x.x.x.0 - y.y.y.255 Hi, Please let's stop with inflaming this subject and with the personal attacks. I have brokered the largest amount of transfers in RIPE region and all my customers have been happy with the services provided. Don't associate me with people that use fake contacts or seychelles companies. I'm in this business for almost 4 years and I have always been upfront, visible and attended all ripe meetings where anyone can see me and discuss with me. If some competitor has a grudge against me, here is not the place to expose it. I have not done anything behind the back and if anyone has a problem with me or my business you can address me personally or whoever you may think would be an authority for your issue. Probably some are disturbed by the single e-mail that I've sent, maybe more are disturbed by having to delete all these useless e-mails. I understand that some might not have something better to do on a Tuesday but let's not waste anymore of other people's time. Have a nice week, Ciprian On Tuesday, October 11, 2016, Marek Isalski <ripe-ncc-members-discussion@maz.nu <mailto:ripe-ncc-members-discussion@maz.nu> > wrote:

On 10 Oct 2016, at 20:22, Martin List-Petersen <martin@airwire.ie <javascript:;> > wrote: The issue is, this is a constant thing. Not by this broker, but also by other brokers.

I'm amazed at how many "IP Brokers" offering "totally legitimate and trustworthy services" will hide behind incorporations in tax havens (seen spam from several that are "headquartered" at "managed postboxes" in e.g. Seychelles); or recently formed in jurisdictions where there is secrecy of directors and/or shareholders; or are incorporated at addresses that are clearly meant to be a dead-end (e.g. above a laundrette, or at a "company formations" company rather than an office or a director's personal address); and there's those that just can't file their paperwork on time and are about to be struck off the relevant register of companies. Regardless of business practices - spamming or not spamming RIPE DB addresses, etc - due diligence looking at https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08557028 would deeply trouble me were I considering using someone as a broker/escrow/agent/etc. Marek Isalski Technical Director, Faelix Limited, https://faelix.net/ ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.

Hi, On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 07:31:32PM +0200, Nacho Mateo wrote:

I am agree with Tim.

Since few years ago many people uses the RIPE database to sell thier services, every month I received a lot of calls on my cell to sell anything, hardware refurbished: cisco, juniper ...

I think Ciprian is a good boy and I he doesn't hurt anybody,

I originally intended to stay out of this discussion, but I really can't help it. What exactly are we giving us rules for, if violations are just shrugged off with "oh, don't bother, just one more mail, who cares"? There are very clear terms & conditions for use of data in the RIPE DB, and *no* sort of commercial solicitation is permitted. So, shall we just stop having terms & conditions at all, because nobody cares whether they are respected or not? "He's such a cute boy, he certainly did not mean harm" - which is totally not relevant. (Note: I'm speaking as a long term LIR contact here, member of the community. No particular hats, otherwise I would point that out) Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279

Unsubscribe On 11 Oct 2016 8:29 p.m., "David Treanor" <David.Treanor@itvt.de> wrote:

Should we therefore also ban email signatures since they are also often referring to the companies we work for and the services provided and therefore performing some kind of marketing?

I would like to reiterate what has already been said here. Can we move on from this? If anyone has a complaint they can address it using the appropriate channels without spamming this list.

Many thanks,

Dave

*From: *Gert Doering <gert@space.net> *Sent: *Tuesday, 11 October 2016 21:04 *To: *Nacho Mateo <nmateo@iporium.net> *Cc: *members-discuss@ripe.net *Subject: *Re: [members-discuss] Spam from Cyprian Nica / IP Broker Limited (Re: Inquiry regarding availability for subnet x.x.x.0 - y.y.y.255

Hi,

On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 07:31:32PM +0200, Nacho Mateo wrote:

...

I am agree with Tim.

Since few years ago many people uses the RIPE database to sell thier services, every month I received a lot of calls on my cell to sell anything, hardware refurbished: cisco, juniper ...

I think Ciprian is a good boy and I he doesn't hurt anybody,

I originally intended to stay out of this discussion, but I really can't help it.

What exactly are we giving us rules for, if violations are just shrugged off with "oh, don't bother, just one more mail, who cares"?

There are very clear terms & conditions for use of data in the RIPE DB, and *no* sort of commercial solicitation is permitted.

So, shall we just stop having terms & conditions at all, because nobody cares whether they are respected or not? "He's such a cute boy, he certainly did not mean harm" - which is totally not relevant.

(Note: I'm speaking as a long term LIR contact here, member of the community. No particular hats, otherwise I would point that out)

Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...?

SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279

------------------------------

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Dear Yunus, This is not correct place where to write about it. Thank you. Nikolay On 10.11.2016 12:03, Yunus Öğütcü wrote:

I read your spammer mail. We have detected the trace and ip spoofing spammer at the end shows us the information below.

They are using ip spoofing method to not catch SPF scan. (its located in Cyprus)

One of their domain web site was www.gungorhotel.com.tr <http://www.gungorhotel.com.tr> but they removed the website after we mailed them. But they still send illegal spam mails.

organisation: ORG-TBLS1-RIPE

org-name: Tamer Bilgisayar LTD STI

org-type: LIR

address: 14 Mehmet Akif Caddesi Lefkose *KKTC*

address: 1102

address: LEFKOSE, *KKTC*

address: TURKEY

phone: +13478847131

fax-no: +13478847131

e-mail: ip@adeox.com

admin-c: MT3834-RIPE

mnt-ref: RIPE-NCC-HM-MNT

mnt-ref: ADEOX

mnt-ref: TAMER-MNT

mnt-by: RIPE-NCC-HM-MNT

mnt-by: ADEOX

abuse-c: AAM188-RIPE

created: 2006-12-05T06:11:09Z

last-modified: 2016-09-12T18:09:59Z

source: RIPE

*From:*members-discuss [mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net] *On Behalf Of *David Treanor *Sent:* Tuesday, October 11, 2016 10:24 PM *To:* Gert Doering <gert@space.net>; Nacho Mateo <nmateo@iporium.net> *Cc:* members-discuss@ripe.net *Subject:* Re: [members-discuss] Spam from Cyprian Nica / IP Broker Limited (Re: Inquiry regarding availability for subnet x.x.x.0 - y.y.y.255

Should we therefore also ban email signatures since they are also often referring to the companies we work for and the services provided and therefore performing some kind of marketing?

I would like to reiterate what has already been said here. Can we move on from this? If anyone has a complaint they can address it using the appropriate channels without spamming this list.

Many thanks,

Dave

*From: *Gert Doering <mailto:gert@space.net> *Sent: *Tuesday, 11 October 2016 21:04 *To: *Nacho Mateo <mailto:nmateo@iporium.net> *Cc: *members-discuss@ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> *Subject: *Re: [members-discuss] Spam from Cyprian Nica / IP Broker Limited (Re: Inquiry regarding availability for subnet x.x.x.0 - y.y.y.255

Hi,

On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 07:31:32PM +0200, Nacho Mateo wrote:

...

I am agree with Tim.

Since few years ago many people uses the RIPE database to sell thier services, every month I received a lot of calls on my cell to sell anything, hardware refurbished: cisco, juniper ...

I think Ciprian is a good boy and I he doesn't hurt anybody,

I originally intended to stay out of this discussion, but I really can't help it.

What exactly are we giving us rules for, if violations are just shrugged off with "oh, don't bother, just one more mail, who cares"?

There are very clear terms & conditions for use of data in the RIPE DB, and *no* sort of commercial solicitation is permitted.

So, shall we just stop having terms & conditions at all, because nobody cares whether they are respected or not? "He's such a cute boy, he certainly did not mean harm" - which is totally not relevant.

(Note: I'm speaking as a long term LIR contact here, member of the community. No particular hats, otherwise I would point that out)

Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...?

SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279

------------------------------------------------------------------------

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This e-mail contains confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in error) please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail. Any unauthorized copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this e-mail is strictly forbidden.

ITVT GmbH Handelsregister: Amtsgericht Stuttgart, HRB21862 Geschäftsführer: Jochen Klipfel, Patrick Kreuzer

Bu e-posta ve muhtemel eklerinde yalnizca muhatabini ilgilendiren, kisiye özel ve gizli bilgiler yer aliyor olabilir. Sirketimiz bu mesajin içerigi ve ekleri ile ilgili hiçbir hukuki sorumluluk kabul etmez. Mesajin muhatabi degilseniz, içerigini ve varsa ekindeki dosyalari kimseye aktarmayiniz ya da kopyalamayiniz. Bu durumda hemen mesajin göndericisini bilgilendiriniz ve mesaji sisteminizden siliniz. Elektronik mesajlar üzerinde yapilmis herhangi bir degisiklik veya sonuçlari üzerinde sirketimizin sorumlulugu yoktur. Ayrica, e-posta mesajlarindaki hata ve/veya eksiklikten, virüs içermesinden ve bilgisayar sisteminize verebilecegi herhangi bir zarardan Sirket olarak sorumluluk kabul etmeyecegimizi bildiririz.

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On 10 Oct 2016, at 20:28, Ciprian Nica <office@ip-broker.uk> wrote:

Hi,

Again I apologize for contacting you (Gert) about a /22 that you have taken from the last /8 more than 2 years ago and which was never announced in the internet (according to ripestat). Probably you didn't need it since you've got on the same LIR a different /22 only 5 days before that one.

There are good reasons to obtain PA and not advertise it (yet) in the DFZ. To me, the above seems like finger-pointing... Not the smartest idea, considering the current sentiments towards you. Ymmv, just my 2 cents. -- Met vriendelijke groet, Arjan van der Oest Lead Mobile Engineer Voiceworks BV - Oplagestraat 1 - 1321 NK Almere Mobile : +31 6 8686 0000 Office : +31 36 7606656 GPG key on http://keyserver.pgp.com/ Key fingerprint = C58F 55CA C62A 5A49 15E0 2271 3481 6020 997E EE99