Choosing between double and triple (x3,5) annual increase is a very good and wide alternative From: Michele Neylon - Blacknight via members-discuss <members-discuss@ripe.net> Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2026 2:46 PM To: Fergal Cunningham <fergalc@ripe.net>; members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: [members-discuss] Re: RIPE NCC Charging Scheme Proposals Announced Fergal thanks for sharing this. The fee calculator in particular is very useful and makes my vote on this very easy. Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains <https://www.blacknight.com/> https://www.blacknight.com/ <https://blacknight.blog/> https://blacknight.blog/ Intl. <tel:+353599183072> +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: <tel:+353599183090> +353 (0)59 9183090 Personal blog: <https://michele.blog/> https://michele.blog/ Some thoughts: <https://ceo.hosting/> https://ceo.hosting/ ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845 I have sent this email at a time that is convenient for me. I do not expect you to respond to it outside of your usual working hours. From: Fergal Cunningham <fergalc@ripe.net <mailto:fergalc@ripe.net> > Date: Tuesday, 21 April 2026 at 10:14 To: members-discuss@ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> <members-discuss@ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> > Subject: [members-discuss] RIPE NCC Charging Scheme Proposals Announced [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Please use caution when opening attachments from unrecognised sources. Dear all, This morning our Executive Board Chair announced the charging scheme voting options for members to vote on at the upcoming General Meeting: <https://mailman.ripe.net/archives/list/ncc-announce@ripe.net/thread/IZFVMQN D3JWC4QHPKVYRZDNFXPRLMLNM/> https://mailman.ripe.net/archives/list/ncc-announce@ripe.net/thread/IZFVMQND 3JWC4QHPKVYRZDNFXPRLMLNM/ All the information, and a calculator you can use to predict your potential fees for 2027, is available from: <https://www.ripe.net/s/gm/may-2026-documents/> https://www.ripe.net/s/gm/may-2026-documents/ We are of course interested to hear what members think about the proposal. And, very importantly, registration for the GM and to vote on your preferred option can be done quickly and easily through the LIR Portal: <https://my.ripe.net/#/meetings/active> https://my.ripe.net/#/meetings/active Kind regards, Fergal Cunningham Head of Membership Engagement RIPE NCC

There have been calculators during the discussions, in Excel form. Personally, I dislike the calculators. They reinforce the mindset of "I'll vote for what allows me to pay the least". This is a membership organization and not some company we try to buy as cheap as possible from. In my opinion the voting should be about what we think is the fairest model and the one that allows RIPE NCC to function for the years to come. I happen to think that the category model is the fairest one, but there are good arguments either way and each member needs to decide on that for their own. And yeah, I know that mindset is wishful thinking. 😊 Best regards, Andreas Grabmüller QuarIT GmbH \\ Jägerstraße 19 \\ 83308 Trostberg \\ Deutschland a.grabmueller@quarit.de \\ www.quaritec.de \\ Telefon: +49 8621 994900-0 \\ Telefax: +49 8621 994900-9 Amtsgericht Traunstein: HRB 23872 \\ Sitz: Trostberg \\ Geschäftsführer: Andreas Grabmüller \\ Ust.-ID: DE297594275 Allgemeine Geschäftsbedingungen: http://www.quaritec.de/agb \\ Aktuelle Preisliste: http://www.quaritec.de/preise -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: SerczerNET <mariusz.nienaltowski@serczer.pl> Gesendet: Dienstag, 21. April 2026 15:42 An: members-discuss@ripe.net Betreff: [members-discuss] Re: RIPE NCC Charging Scheme Proposals Announced hi everyone, The fee calculator in is very useful. This calculator should have been included in the previous edition. Unless I missed something. Regards Mariusz W dniu 21.04.2026 o 13:45, Michele Neylon - Blacknight via members-discuss pisze:

Fergal

thanks for sharing this. The fee calculator in particular is very useful and makes my vote on this very easy.

Regards

Michele

--

Mr Michele Neylon

Blacknight Solutions

Hosting, Colocation & Domains

_https://www.blacknight.com/_ <https://www.blacknight.com/>

_https://blacknight.blog/_ <https://blacknight.blog/>

Intl. _+353 (0) 59 9183072_ <tel:+353599183072>

Direct Dial: _+353 (0)59 9183090_ <tel:+353599183090>

Personal blog: _https://michele.blog/_ <https://michele.blog/>

Some thoughts: _https://ceo.hosting/_ <https://ceo.hosting/>

-------------------------------

Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845

I have sent this email at a time that is convenient for me. I do not expect you to respond to it outside of your usual working hours.

*From: *Fergal Cunningham <fergalc@ripe.net> *Date: *Tuesday, 21 April 2026 at 10:14 *To: *members-discuss@ripe.net <members-discuss@ripe.net> *Subject: *[members-discuss] RIPE NCC Charging Scheme Proposals Announced

*[EXTERNAL EMAIL]* Please use caution when opening attachments from unrecognised sources.

Dear all,

This morning our Executive Board Chair announced the charging scheme voting options for members to vote on at the upcoming General Meeting:

_https://mailman.ripe.net/archives/list/ncc-announce@ripe.net/thread/I ZFVMQND3JWC4QHPKVYRZDNFXPRLMLNM/_ <https:// mailman.ripe.net/archives/list/ncc-announce@ripe.net/thread/IZFVMQND3J WC4QHPKVYRZDNFXPRLMLNM/>

All the information, and a calculator you can use to predict your potential fees for 2027, is available from:

_https://www.ripe.net/s/gm/may-2026-documents/_ <https://www.ripe.net/s/gm/may-2026-documents/>

We are of course interested to hear what members think about the proposal.

And, very importantly, registration for the GM and to vote on your preferred option can be done quickly and easily through the LIR Portal:

_https://my.ripe.net/#/meetings/active_ <https://my.ripe.net/#/meetings/active>

Kind regards,

Fergal Cunningham

Head of Membership Engagement

RIPE NCC

To unsubscribe or manage your subscription, log in to the LIR Portal with your RIPE NCC Access account and go to the LIR Account page: https://my.ripe.net/#/account-details.

Scroll down to Membership Mailing Lists to update your 'members-discuss' subscription.

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-- Mariusz Nienałtowski Dyrektor ds. Technicznych oraz Inwestycji SerczerNET Małgorzata Nienałtowska mariusz.nienaltowski@serczer.pl mnienaltowski@gmail.com mob. +48 691 45 99 77 BOK (Biuro Obsługi Klienta) +48 85 674 30 88, fax. +48 85 674 30 87 http://www.serczer.pl UWAGA: Niniejsza korespondencja może zawierać informacje poufne. Jeśli nie jest Pan/Pani jej zamierzonym adresatem prosimy o niezwłoczne jej odesłanie a następnie usunięcie. Wykorzystanie w jakikolwiek sposób informacji zawartych w nin. korespondencji, jak również jej rozpowszechnienie, dystrybucja lub powielenie będzie stanowić czyn nieuczciwej konkurencji w myśl art. 11 ustawy o zwalczaniu nieuczciwej konkurencji i będzie rodzić odpowiedzialność odszkodowawczą wobec SerczerNET na podstawie art.415 Kodeksu Cywilnego. To unsubscribe or manage your subscription, log in to the LIR Portal with your RIPE NCC Access account and go to the LIR Account page: https://my.ripe.net/#/account-details. Scroll down to Membership Mailing Lists to update your 'members-discuss' subscription. Having issues unsubscribing? More information about managing your subscription can be found at: https://www.ripe.net/s/members-discuss-subscription-options/

Good Day! I disagree on this point as it stands in reality. In theory you are correct under the following constraints: - Every member participates in the GM and actually casts their vote. - Every member treats their membership as a business expense and will try to activly lower their recurring costs by selecting the option with the lowest cost on the vote. (Disregarding any other consolidations). In  reality however: - Not every member registers for the GM. - Not every member casts a vote. - Not every member tries to purely optimise for the lowest recurring cost. Kind Regards Sebastian On 4/22/26 12:36 PM, Simon Lockhart wrote:

On Wed Apr 22, 2026 at 11:41:07AM +0200, Andreas Grabm?ller | QuarIT GmbH wrote:

...

There have been calculators during the discussions, in Excel form. Personally, I dislike the calculators. They reinforce the mindset of "I'll vote for what allows me to pay the least". This is a strong point to flag here - with the category pricing as proposed, the majority of members will pay less, therefore if they're not sleeping through this process then they'll all vote for it. The <50% of members who would end up paying more cannot in themselves stop it happening.

Simon To unsubscribe or manage your subscription, log in to the LIR Portal with your RIPE NCC Access account and go to the LIR Account page: https://my.ripe.net/#/account-details.

Scroll down to Membership Mailing Lists to update your 'members-discuss' subscription.

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All members can​ vote. If they choose not to that’s their prerogative. It’s the same in most​ countries. I’m involved in multiple member organisations, some are for “fun”, while others are for “business”. 100% active participation simply does not happen -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains https://www.blacknight.com/ https://blacknight.blog/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072<tel:+353599183072> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090<tel:+353599183090> Personal blog: https://michele.blog/ Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/ ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845 I have sent this email at a time that is convenient for me. I do not expect you to respond to it outside of your usual working hours. From: Sebastian-Wilhelm Graf <ripe-members@sebastian-graf.at> Date: Wednesday, 22 April 2026 at 13:24 To: members-discuss@ripe.net <members-discuss@ripe.net> Subject: [members-discuss] Re: RIPE NCC Charging Scheme Proposals Announced [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Please use caution when opening attachments from unrecognised sources. Good Day! I disagree on this point as it stands in reality. In theory you are correct under the following constraints: - Every member participates in the GM and actually casts their vote. - Every member treats their membership as a business expense and will try to activly lower their recurring costs by selecting the option with the lowest cost on the vote. (Disregarding any other consolidations). In reality however: - Not every member registers for the GM. - Not every member casts a vote. - Not every member tries to purely optimise for the lowest recurring cost. Kind Regards Sebastian On 4/22/26 12:36 PM, Simon Lockhart wrote:

On Wed Apr 22, 2026 at 11:41:07AM +0200, Andreas Grabm?ller | QuarIT GmbH wrote:

...

There have been calculators during the discussions, in Excel form. Personally, I dislike the calculators. They reinforce the mindset of "I'll vote for what allows me to pay the least". This is a strong point to flag here - with the category pricing as proposed, the majority of members will pay less, therefore if they're not sleeping through this process then they'll all vote for it. The <50% of members who would end up paying more cannot in themselves stop it happening.

Simon To unsubscribe or manage your subscription, log in to the LIR Portal with your RIPE NCC Access account and go to the LIR Account page: https://my.ripe.net/#/account-details.

Scroll down to Membership Mailing Lists to update your 'members-discuss' subscription.

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I totally agree. The group's work turned into a farce. I believe that putting this one-sided proposal to the vote offends the community. This is a banal substitution of choice. All suggestions during the development of the proposal were simply ignored. I will speak publicly about this at a mitting, and even if they don't let me tell about it, everyone who disagrees should announce that this is an outrage! This is can a complete discredit of the NCC leaderships. Dmitry Serbulov.

Should this be the endgame, it mirrors how socialist democracy works and welfare benefits through majority rule enabling redistribution where the larger group votes for policies benefiting them at the expense of the minority.

Queue discussion on how this is fairer than everyone paying the same.

🙂

Kaj

________________________________ From: Simon Lockhart <simon@slimey.org> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2026 13:36 To: Andreas Grabm?ller | QuarIT GmbH <a.grabmueller@quarit.de> Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net <members-discuss@ripe.net> Subject: [members-discuss] Re: RIPE NCC Charging Scheme Proposals Announced

On Wed Apr 22, 2026 at 11:41:07AM +0200, Andreas Grabm?ller | QuarIT GmbH wrote:

...

There have been calculators during the discussions, in Excel form. Personally, I dislike the calculators. They reinforce the mindset of "I'll vote for what allows me to pay the least".

This is a strong point to flag here - with the category pricing as proposed, the majority of members will pay less, therefore if they're not sleeping through this process then they'll all vote for it. The <50% of members who would end up paying more cannot in themselves stop it happening.

Simon To unsubscribe or manage your subscription, log in to the LIR Portal with your RIPE NCC Access account and go to the LIR Account page: https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmy.ripe.net%2F%23%2Faccount-details&data=05%7C02%7C%7Cb6333cecba2e4d7d0be308dea0649198%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C639124550960619463%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C4000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=7cmRq%2BPONzvEnpcegfv9cxn4LTjAGep%2BP2vjqLP0onA%3D&reserved=0<https://my.ripe.net/#/account-details>.

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Dear Simon, others, On Wed, Apr 22, 2026 at 11:36:36AM +0100, Simon Lockhart wrote:

On Wed Apr 22, 2026 at 11:41:07AM +0200, Andreas Grabm?ller | QuarIT GmbH wrote:

...

There have been calculators during the discussions, in Excel form. Personally, I dislike the calculators. They reinforce the mindset of "I'll vote for what allows me to pay the least".

This is a strong point to flag here - with the category pricing as proposed, the majority of members will pay less, therefore if they're not sleeping through this process then they'll all vote for it. The <50% of members who would end up paying more cannot in themselves stop it happening.

FWIW, I agree with you that voting options that might lower one's cost can be expected to attract a cohort of voters for that reason alone, but I think there also are second-order effects to consider when preparing to cast a vote one way or another. For exampe, it is not too hard to imagine that a probable outcome of lowering the financial barrier-to-participate-as-a-LIR would be an increase in the number of people that then can participate in the RIPE community (and consequently the global Internet infrastructure community). Signing up as your own small LIR is an excellent way to get some hands-on experience with IP & AS assignment procedures and to obtain global Internet number resources & RPKI certification services, all under one's own full control. A "smaller pricetag for the smaller category" in some ways could be seen as a vehicle to support the creation of more affordable self-study opportunities for others, perhaps to help them prepare for what otherwise can be hard-to-enter "experience required" jobmarket segments. Category-based billing might be a way to better socialize the cost of the community's hands-on educational facilities. Perhaps in two years' time we can trace a spike of interest from a younger generation to actively participate in Internet engineering back to this year's charging scheme vote. The association's method of charging has impact beyond just the immediate financial consequences. Kind regards, Job

Hi, Thanks for the second-order perspective - genuinely interesting point about growing the community via affordable LIR entry. Fair question: would more small LIRs lead to higher support costs? Past discussions on members-discuss noted that M&A consolidations and transfers were charged below cost versus actual fees. I guess data cannot exist showing per-LIR costs scale sustainably under a new charging model that hasn't been implemented, but I imagine there has to be some kind of [realized actual] cost attributable per LIR beyond a straight "budget/number-of-lirs". For example, would it affect the amount of training offered? or amount of support tickets handled by humans? Supposing Opt B wins and beneficiaries grow, curious how that impacts budget dynamics. Kaj ________________________________ From: Job Snijders via members-discuss <members-discuss@ripe.net> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2026 15:49 To: members-discuss@ripe.net <members-discuss@ripe.net> Subject: [members-discuss] Re: RIPE NCC Charging Scheme Proposals Announced Dear Simon, others, On Wed, Apr 22, 2026 at 11:36:36AM +0100, Simon Lockhart wrote:

On Wed Apr 22, 2026 at 11:41:07AM +0200, Andreas Grabm?ller | QuarIT GmbH wrote:

...

There have been calculators during the discussions, in Excel form. Personally, I dislike the calculators. They reinforce the mindset of "I'll vote for what allows me to pay the least".

This is a strong point to flag here - with the category pricing as proposed, the majority of members will pay less, therefore if they're not sleeping through this process then they'll all vote for it. The <50% of members who would end up paying more cannot in themselves stop it happening.

FWIW, I agree with you that voting options that might lower one's cost can be expected to attract a cohort of voters for that reason alone, but I think there also are second-order effects to consider when preparing to cast a vote one way or another. For exampe, it is not too hard to imagine that a probable outcome of lowering the financial barrier-to-participate-as-a-LIR would be an increase in the number of people that then can participate in the RIPE community (and consequently the global Internet infrastructure community). Signing up as your own small LIR is an excellent way to get some hands-on experience with IP & AS assignment procedures and to obtain global Internet number resources & RPKI certification services, all under one's own full control. A "smaller pricetag for the smaller category" in some ways could be seen as a vehicle to support the creation of more affordable self-study opportunities for others, perhaps to help them prepare for what otherwise can be hard-to-enter "experience required" jobmarket segments. Category-based billing might be a way to better socialize the cost of the community's hands-on educational facilities. Perhaps in two years' time we can trace a spike of interest from a younger generation to actively participate in Internet engineering back to this year's charging scheme vote. The association's method of charging has impact beyond just the immediate financial consequences. Kind regards, Job To unsubscribe or manage your subscription, log in to the LIR Portal with your RIPE NCC Access account and go to the LIR Account page: https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmy.ripe.net%2F%23%2Faccount-details&data=05%7C02%7C%7C6de2ef890c8c4377773208dea0739898%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C639124615504933025%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C4000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=B6vRdwc%2FSQRMOn7%2Beb9yk7vNWYxLlqUsciIVsNWFPWI%3D&reserved=0<https://my.ripe.net/#/account-details>. Scroll down to Membership Mailing Lists to update your 'members-discuss' subscription. Having issues unsubscribing? More information about managing your subscription can be found at: https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ripe.net%2Fs%2Fmembers-discuss-subscription-options%2F&data=05%7C02%7C%7C6de2ef890c8c4377773208dea0739898%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C639124615504968230%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C4000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=5F4fUr7HlX1jRiPDAQ0SpwkbsBd03m1rc0s5vVwlqIM%3D&reserved=0<https://www.ripe.net/s/members-discuss-subscription-options/>

On 22/04/2026 13:49:58, "Job Snijders via members-discuss" <members-discuss@ripe.net> wrote:

For exampe, it is not too hard to imagine that a probable outcome of lowering the financial barrier-to-participate-as-a-LIR would be an increase in the number of people that then can participate in the RIPE community (and consequently the global Internet infrastructure community).

That is laudable and can be achieved in other ways than pushing everyone into this category scheme. Categories have been rejected before so finessing them until they attract sufficient votes seems questionable. My opinion is there are only two fair charging schemes. The current single fee, and a direct use charge be that by direct counting of NCC resources and services used or the current proxy for that - IP count. Counting resource use would be hard and likely expensive and discourage people from keeping the data current so has previously been discounted. IP count would satisfy the sense of injustice at those with /8s sat idle but has been deemed unworkable too. It also fails when most are IPv6 only as there would be approx one category with most of us in it. Anything between is a fudge, choosing one set of members to subsidise another fails the stated fairness goals.

Signing up as your own small LIR is an excellent way to get some hands-on experience with IP & AS assignment procedures and to obtain global Internet number resources & RPKI certification services, all under one's own full control.

I agree, so lets consider that as the driving need. When we started there were categories, we were 2005/EXTRA_SMALL and paid EU1750. That was worth a lot more back then but was considered acceptable for people starting up. It is almost the same as the current flat fee. So how much should personal/startup LIRs pay? The current categories say EU500, that sounds fine, there could be a different membership for that, just two categories not 20. A startup membership should have constraints to avoid abuse, such as one /24, one IPv6 prefix and only allowed one additional resource - an ASN. The main thing the 20 categories does is enable the 7k spike of members in category 4 to get a reduction in fees at the expense of those in the categories above. Why? They ran the final /8 out and got space for free that people now have to pay for, they knew the cost when getting it and chose to pay. They are not helping those startup members that now can't get space.

A "smaller pricetag for the smaller category" in some ways could be seen as a vehicle to support the creation of more affordable self-study opportunities for others, perhaps to help them prepare for what otherwise can be hard-to-enter "experience required" jobmarket segments.

With /24 pricing that is an expensive way to learn, perhaps they can do it as IPv6 only, it is sufficient to learn with. brandon

On 22/04/2026 19:29, Kai Siering via members-discuss wrote: You hit the nail on its head. These different pricing models end up pitting one group vs the other when we all should be demanding that RIPE NCC's budget be capped and reduced. That issue has come up numerous times but unfortunately nothing has ever come of it. We are therefore doomed to a steadily increasing budget, ad infinitum. Regards, Hank

Moin,

I'm still not convinced that the way it is, having the Executive solely approve the Activity Plan – and therefore the costs of RIPE NCC – and the members later on can only decide how these costs are to be paid my the members, is a valid model anymore. From my point of view, 42,500,000 EUR is quite some money to simply run a RIR that started as a simple database with a mnail frontend for regional internet ressources and that amount is what we as members should not only discuss about, but also decide on. If one looks at https://www.ripe.net/media/documents/ ripe-850.pdf, in 2026 only 246 of each member's 1800 EUR are spend for services related to the Registry itself, a mere 13.6%.

It's not about "buying as cheap as possible", but about right-sizing this membership organisation and the services it provides – to it's members and the Internet in general – to what is strictly neccessary — or at least deemed nice-to-have by vote by a majority of the members.

Therefore it is not the Charging Scheme, the root cause of these repeating discussions is the ever increasing budget of RIPE NCC and the membership's inability to address that.

Regards, -kai

Hi! It's very simple! The "wonderful" developers group of the price list decided that those who have 5-20 thousand IP addresses and who already lack them catastrophically will pay for the owners of a millions IP addresses. It's called GREAT FRAUD! This is absolutely unacceptable. --- Dmitry Serbulov.

Dear all,

If we'd like to go on TL;DR:

-> Independent resources pricing options are the same, so no need to look around there if we are looking only on the pricing.

-> Pricing between A & B becomes higher on B when reaching  16x /24 and/or 16x /29 (which seems a bit low, ie cat6/21).

I made the calculations (might be some minor errors): Cat1 = 0 /24 = base + 0€ Cat2 = 1 /24 = cat1 + 148€ Cat3 = 2 /24 = cat2 + 199€ Cat4 = 4 /24 = cat3 + 399€ Cat5 = 8 /24 = cat4 + 448€ Cat6 = 16 /24 = cat5 + 723€ Cat7 = 32 /24 = cat6 + 872€ Cat8 = 64 /24 = cat7 + 1046€ Cat9 = 128 /24 = cat8 + 1146€ Cat10 = 256 /24 = cat9 + 1495€ Cat11 = 512 /24 = cat10 + 1495€ Cat12 = 1024 /24 = cat11 + 2043€ Cat13 = 2048 /24 = cat12 + 2093€ Cat14 = 4096 /24 = cat13 + 2342€ Cat15 = 8192 /24 = cat14 + 2591€ Cat16 = 16384 /24 = cat15 + 2890€ Cat17 = 32768 /24 = cat16 + 3189€ (uk.bt/fr.sfr/fr.proxad/fr.bouygtel/uk.ntli/it.fastweb) Cat18 = 65536 /24 = cat17 + 3737€ (fr.telecom/de.telekom and the sum of all Telecom Italia members) Cat19 = 131072 /24 = cat18 + 4086€ any ? Cat20 = 262144 /24 = cat19 + 4086€ (uk.microsoft ) Cat21 = 524288 /24 and above = cat20 + 4983€ (no LIR ?)

My remarks: 

0- Are there any LIR for cat21 ?

1- there's a gap on each category, which makes the "additionnal /24" a tough threshold effect. and even if the gap increases between almost all categories, still, it tends to become more and more interesting "per additionnal /24" for higer categories.

2- I am still a bit disappointed that the highest fee is only ~40K for largest -existing?- LIRs.

3- But still, it's a better option than what was suggested earlier (10K IIRC). => I am happy that smaller LIR with only one /24 and one /29 would pay much less than before.

Well... since we will not have any other voting options, we'll have to choose with our wallets.

Just one additionnal question: How would you redistribute any excess of budget? Would it be calculated on the base of the fee paid on year N-1?

Regards,

Clément Cavadore

On Tue, 2026-04-21 at 10:43 +0200, Fergal Cunningham wrote:

...

Dear all,

This morning our Executive Board Chair announced the charging scheme voting options for members to vote on at the upcoming General Meeting: https://mailman.ripe.net/archives/list/ncc-announce@ripe.net/thread/IZFVMQND...

All the information, and a calculator you can use to predict your potential fees for 2027, is available from: https://www.ripe.net/s/gm/may-2026-documents/

We are of course interested to hear what members think about the proposal.

And, very importantly, registration for the GM and to vote on your preferred option can be done quickly and easily through the LIR Portal: https://my.ripe.net/#/meetings/active

Kind regards,

Fergal Cunningham Head of Membership Engagement RIPE NCC

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If the rental and selling of IP Space should not be taken into account, then it should not be allowed in the first place. Because we are able to rent out or sell them, they have a value thus making the flat ripe fees 'feel' unfair Sander ________________________________ From: Simon Lockhart <simon@slimey.org> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2026 10:24 To: sdy@a-n-t.ru <sdy@a-n-t.ru> Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net <members-discuss@ripe.net> Subject: [members-discuss] Re: RIPE NCC Charging Scheme Proposals Announced When will you get into your head that this isn't about rental of IPv4 address space (the model you seem to be pushing), but rather about modelling how the costs for a database (and community resource) provider should be apportioned amongst its members. One /8 takes up as much space in a database (1 row) as a /24 (1 row). Simon On Wed Apr 22, 2026 at 09:13:37PM +0300, sdy@a-n-t.ru wrote:

It's very simple! The "wonderful" developers group of the price list decided that those who have 5-20 thousand IP addresses and who already lack them catastrophically will pay for the owners of a millions IP addresses. It's called GREAT FRAUD! This is absolutely unacceptable. To unsubscribe or manage your subscription, log in to the LIR Portal with your RIPE NCC Access account and go to the LIR Account page: https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmy.ripe.net%2F%23%2Faccount-details&data=05%7C02%7Csander.klein%40vitecsoftware.com%7C8c269dd512ed4f6d882c08dea11c0c28%7Cc475547b838949bd88473c0ef0b9e181%7C0%7C0%7C639125338997034082%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=d7atf5jGKgbpSvuNnF6ZOX1QoSeBy%2BnWkdXu1GmSrDI%3D&reserved=0<https://my.ripe.net/#/account-details>.

Scroll down to Membership Mailing Lists to update your 'members-discuss' subscription. Having issues unsubscribing? More information about managing your subscription can be found at: https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ripe.net%2Fs%2Fmembers-discuss-subscription-options%2F&data=05%7C02%7Csander.klein%40vitecsoftware.com%7C8c269dd512ed4f6d882c08dea11c0c28%7Cc475547b838949bd88473c0ef0b9e181%7C0%7C0%7C639125338997051238%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=PvXoCQgPB5OeRHcI41J6fp77cuTQbj7uTWf3kU5zHPQ%3D&reserved=0<https://www.ripe.net/s/members-discuss-subscription-options/>

Hi Simon / all, I've written part of what I'm going to share below a number of times but held back from sending. Now seems like a good point. The underlying problem with this part of the debate is that frankly, large IPv4 holders by some in the "community" are considered as evil and smaller IPv4 holders are the good. This is not healthy, often cloaked by tedious arguments and disregards certain realities. What those larger holders stand for and achieve on a day-to-day basis may well be viewed negatively but their justified use of the space allocated has been accepted by RIPE NCC (legacy excluded). If members feel holders have space to which they are no longer entitled then Policy should be updated to recover space more vigorously, whilst also prohibiting and killing the transfer market. Instead the narrative is "if I can't get any, charge them more!!!". Guess what, if you aren't in Category 1 (1,505 LIRs) you aren't the little guy... If we accept holders have a legitimate need, then their place for the greater internetworking and function of the Internet is no more or less than a smaller holder. The direction we seem to be moving in to is very much self-serving interest and positioning larger holders as Cash Cows. The fact members are comfortable with that is disturbing. Do we really think that larger holders cost RIPE NCC that much more and sufficiently enough more than running IPv6 alongside? All this considered put another way, I get to enjoy the same benefits as others at their expense. The problem with cash cows is eventually that revenue stream goes. Then what? Do we find ourselves targeting the ever diminishing IPv4 holders even more? Is IPv4 treated like a second class citizen to be exploited? Well, the clues are in the announcement from Ondřej Filip here: https://mailman.ripe.net/archives/list/ncc-announce@ripe.net/thread/IZFVMQND..., specifically:- " The category model proposed is aligned with the majority of the principles put forward by the RIPE NCC Charging Scheme Task Force. The remaining principles will be discussed with the membership and can be implemented in the coming years as consensus is reached on how to do so effectively." & " Introducing possible new separate fees in line with task force principles could potentially increase the income for the RIPE NCC while keeping the income derived from the category fees neutral over time." So those who may see Category B offering lower fees now, may well in future see those fees go down (great!), but also up. You don’t actually know. Those changes will need to be voted on and accepted. If not, the budget deficit needs to come from somewhere... The deeper question arising from this for me becomes, at what point does all this move us from a Member organisation to a Service Provider? Thanks, Brian Brian Storey Principal; Data Products & Network Planning Tel: 0333 240 3481 Mobile: 07436 101 378 Email: Brian.Storey@gamma.co.uk This is an email from Gamma Telecom Ltd, trading as “Gamma”. The contents of this email are confidential to the ordinary user of the email address to which it was addressed. This email is not intended to create any legal relationship. No one else may place any reliance upon it, or copy or forward all or any of it in any form (unless otherwise notified). If you receive this email in error, please accept our apologies, we would be obliged if you would telephone our postmaster on +44 (0) 808 178 9652 or email postmaster@gamma.co.uk Gamma Telecom Limited, a company incorporated in England and Wales, with limited liability, with registered number 04340834, and whose registered office is at Arbeta, 11 Northampton Road, Manchester, M40 5BP and whose principal place of business is at Kings House, Kings Road West, Newbury, Berkshire, RG14 5BY. -----Original Message----- From: Simon Lockhart <simon@slimey.org> Sent: 23 April 2026 12:41 To: Sander Klein <Sander.Klein@vitecsoftware.com> Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: [members-discuss] Re: RIPE NCC Charging Scheme Proposals Announced You're conflating two different things. RIPE, as an RIR, does not rent IP space. It maintains a database of allocations of IP space. RIPE makes allocations (a license to use) of space based on need (you could never just "buy" a block of IP space without justified need). I purposely do not make any statement about the validation of that need. LIRs may choose to rent or sell IP space they have been allocated by RIPE, which RIPE tolerates, and updates the allocation database accordingly. Simon On Thu Apr 23, 2026 at 09:46:10AM +0000, Sander Klein via members-discuss wrote:

If the rental and selling of IP Space should not be taken into account, then it should not be allowed in the first place.

Because we are able to rent out or sell them, they have a value thus making the flat ripe fees 'feel' unfair

Sander To unsubscribe or manage your subscription, log in to the LIR Portal with your RIPE NCC Access account and go to the LIR Account page: https://my.ripe.net/#/account-details.

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Dear all, Unfortunately, the models presented here are somewhat focused on address leasing. The payment scheme we are discussing at length here should be supplemented by a commitment from RIPE regarding address space management. Then we wouldn’t have to blame each other over whether large or small entities should save money. Model A. Everyone will pay the same. At the same time, RIPE will commit to distributing address space fairly. It will find a methodology to determine the needs of individual LIRs and will regularly redistribute address space so that all LIRs have, as far as possible, the same percentage shortage of the limited number of addresses. Or it will at least regularly reduce the largest allocations to meet at least the basic needs of new LIRs. This means a lot of work for RIPE and for the LIRs themselves (frequent reallocations). However, all members will face similar problems (with address shortages and reallocations), yet they will all be able to function effectively. The nonsensical market for reselling IPv4 addresses will come to an end. Model B. LIRs with insufficient allocations will accept that RIPE cannot guarantee them a fair allocation, but at least they will save on fees. Those with large allocations will pay a higher fee. If they have such a surplus of addresses that they cannot profit from them despite the higher fee, nothing prevents them from returning a portion. M. Prokes Translated with DeepL.com (free version) Dne 23.04.2026 v 10:24 Simon Lockhart napsal(a):

When will you get into your head that this isn't about rental of IPv4 address space (the model you seem to be pushing), but rather about modelling how the costs for a database (and community resource) provider should be apportioned amongst its members.

One /8 takes up as much space in a database (1 row) as a /24 (1 row).

Simon

On Wed Apr 22, 2026 at 09:13:37PM +0300, sdy@a-n-t.ru wrote:

...

It's very simple! The "wonderful" developers group of the price list decided that those who have 5-20 thousand IP addresses and who already lack them catastrophically will pay for the owners of a millions IP addresses. It's called GREAT FRAUD! This is absolutely unacceptable. To unsubscribe or manage your subscription, log in to the LIR Portal with your RIPE NCC Access account and go to the LIR Account page: https://my.ripe.net/#/account-details.

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Hello, Under its contract with IANA, RIPE is obligated to ensure fair resource distribution among all its members. In light of the IPv4 shortage and the equal fees (Charging Scheme A) for all members, 'fair' should logically mean an equal number of resources. In other words, every RIPE LIR should be delegated 156 x /24 IPv4, 9 x /32 IPv6, and 2 ASNs. PI (Provider Independent) sponsoring resources must also be included within these limits. Therefore, if we proceed with Charging Scheme A, it is mandatory for RIPE to perform resource redistribution across its entire membership annually. This is achievable; while a few LIRs may be unhappy, their number would be significantly lower than the current number of dissatisfied members. If you want equal fees and equal voting rights, then you must also have equal resources, regardless of the company's size (a form of pure communism). Charging scheme Option B is not perfect, but it is definitely a step in the right direction. It will slightly lower current imbalances (created over the past 25+ years) without disrupting internet operations in the region (no resource redistribution needed). To be fairer, the charging scheme should have more categories with larger payment gaps. Alternatively, after category 16, every additional IPv4 /24, IPv6 /32, or ASN should be charged an additional 75 Euro (or another appropriate value). Ivaylo Josifov VarnaIX / Varteh LTD +359 52 969393 Varna, Bulgaria On Thu, 23 Apr 2026, Michal Prokes via members-discuss wrote:

Dear all, Unfortunately, the models presented here are somewhat focused on address leasing. The payment scheme we are discussing at length here should be supplemented by a commitment from RIPE regarding address space management. Then we wouldn’t have to blame each other over whether large or small entities should save money.

Model A. Everyone will pay the same. At the same time, RIPE will commit to distributing address space fairly. It will find a methodology to determine the needs of individual LIRs and will regularly redistribute address space so that all LIRs have, as far as possible, the same percentage shortage of the limited number of addresses. Or it will at least regularly reduce the largest allocations to meet at least the basic needs of new LIRs. This means a lot of work for RIPE and for the LIRs themselves (frequent reallocations). However, all members will face similar problems (with address shortages and reallocations), yet they will all be able to function effectively. The nonsensical market for reselling IPv4 addresses will come to an end.

Model B. LIRs with insufficient allocations will accept that RIPE cannot guarantee them a fair allocation, but at least they will save on fees. Those with large allocations will pay a higher fee. If they have such a surplus of addresses that they cannot profit from them despite the higher fee, nothing prevents them from returning a portion.

M. Prokes

Translated with DeepL.com (free version)

Dne 23.04.2026 v 10:24 Simon Lockhart napsal(a):

...

When will you get into your head that this isn't about rental of IPv4 address space (the model you seem to be pushing), but rather about modelling how the costs for a database (and community resource) provider should be apportioned amongst its members.

One /8 takes up as much space in a database (1 row) as a /24 (1 row).

Simon

On Wed Apr 22, 2026 at 09:13:37PM +0300, sdy@a-n-t.ru wrote:

...

It's very simple! The "wonderful" developers group of the price list decided that those who have 5-20 thousand IP addresses and who already lack them catastrophically will pay for the owners of a millions IP addresses. It's called GREAT FRAUD! This is absolutely unacceptable. To unsubscribe or manage your subscription, log in to the LIR Portal with your RIPE NCC Access account and go to the LIR Account page: https://my.ripe.net/#/account-details.

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On 25 Apr 2026, at 07:34, Daniel Suchy via members-discuss <members-discuss@ripe.net> wrote: [..] For me no - if someone brings more money to the common garden, it isn't fair to give him a equal vote power with someone, who brings less money. And of course my vote powe must not be stronger than the right of those who bring more money to our common garden.

There are two parts to this: #1 membership There is the base membership fee, that gives everybody that is a member an LIR. Each LIR gets one vote. #2 resources On top of that depending on resources requested one is charged for the work that needs to be delivered for that. You want to pay less, then use less resources. Regards, Jeroen

Am 05.05.26 um 18:56 schrieb Gert Doering <gert@space.net>:

than new LIRs that need lots of hand holding.

which „hand holding“? New LIRs pay a dedicated entry fee on top for the onboarding process which involves the most of typical „hand holding“… I.e. in my case the RIPE had to support with only one additional message regarding my company details in the membership forms. Since then i did not had any manual interaction with RIPE support / staff as LIR. cheers, niels. — Niels Dettenbach https://www.syndicat.com https://www.syndicat.com/pub_key.asc

Dear Dmitry, sorry, but you are saying is simply wrong. Being loud doesn't make anything you have to say any more correct. When you were a normal ISP your first assignment was a /19 or a /20, once you grew and you had more demand bigger prefixes were added according to your need. Looking into a medium sized ISP with ~200k IPv4 IPs and a bunch of sponsorings your average actual bill might be something like 1900€ - with charging scheme A this will become approx. 2100€, with B it will be ~8500€ Looking at a bigger ISP with ~ 600k IPs and more sponserings current bill is something like 3700€, this will become 4500€ with scheme A or 15.000€ with scheme B. The further you look up the higher the prices get. If you are a very small LIR with only one /23 your bill will drop from your current fee of ~1700€ to 850€ in option B So please: in what way will the the small LIRs pay for those who have millions of IPs? Actually it's the other way round. Stop ranting, start thinking Karl -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: sdy@a-n-t.ru <sdy@a-n-t.ru> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 22. April 2026 20:14 An: Clement Cavadore <ccavadore@vedege.net> Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net Betreff: [members-discuss] Re: RIPE NCC Charging Scheme Proposals Announced Hi! It's very simple! The "wonderful" developers group of the price list decided that those who have 5-20 thousand IP addresses and who already lack them catastrophically will pay for the owners of a millions IP addresses. It's called GREAT FRAUD! This is absolutely unacceptable. --- Dmitry Serbulov.

Dear all,

If we'd like to go on TL;DR:

-> Independent resources pricing options are the same, so no need to look around there if we are looking only on the pricing.

-> Pricing between A & B becomes higher on B when reaching 16x /24 and/or 16x /29 (which seems a bit low, ie cat6/21).

I made the calculations (might be some minor errors): Cat1 = 0 /24 = base + 0€ Cat2 = 1 /24 = cat1 + 148€ Cat3 = 2 /24 = cat2 + 199€ Cat4 = 4 /24 = cat3 + 399€ Cat5 = 8 /24 = cat4 + 448€ Cat6 = 16 /24 = cat5 + 723€ Cat7 = 32 /24 = cat6 + 872€ Cat8 = 64 /24 = cat7 + 1046€ Cat9 = 128 /24 = cat8 + 1146€ Cat10 = 256 /24 = cat9 + 1495€ Cat11 = 512 /24 = cat10 + 1495€ Cat12 = 1024 /24 = cat11 + 2043€ Cat13 = 2048 /24 = cat12 + 2093€ Cat14 = 4096 /24 = cat13 + 2342€ Cat15 = 8192 /24 = cat14 + 2591€ Cat16 = 16384 /24 = cat15 + 2890€ Cat17 = 32768 /24 = cat16 + 3189€ (uk.bt/fr.sfr/fr.proxad/fr.bouygtel/uk.ntli/it.fastweb) Cat18 = 65536 /24 = cat17 + 3737€ (fr.telecom/de.telekom and the sum of all Telecom Italia members) Cat19 = 131072 /24 = cat18 + 4086€ any ? Cat20 = 262144 /24 = cat19 + 4086€ (uk.microsoft ) Cat21 = 524288 /24 and above = cat20 + 4983€ (no LIR ?)

My remarks:

0- Are there any LIR for cat21 ?

1- there's a gap on each category, which makes the "additionnal /24" a tough threshold effect. and even if the gap increases between almost all categories, still, it tends to become more and more interesting "per additionnal /24" for higer categories.

2- I am still a bit disappointed that the highest fee is only ~40K for largest -existing?- LIRs.

3- But still, it's a better option than what was suggested earlier (10K IIRC). => I am happy that smaller LIR with only one /24 and one /29 would pay much less than before.

Well... since we will not have any other voting options, we'll have to choose with our wallets.

Just one additionnal question: How would you redistribute any excess of budget? Would it be calculated on the base of the fee paid on year N-1?

Regards,

Clément Cavadore

On Tue, 2026-04-21 at 10:43 +0200, Fergal Cunningham wrote:

...

Dear all,

This morning our Executive Board Chair announced the charging scheme voting options for members to vote on at the upcoming General Meeting: https://mai/ lman.ripe.net%2Farchives%2Flist%2Fncc-announce%40ripe.net%2Fthread%2F IZFVMQND3JWC4QHPKVYRZDNFXPRLMLNM%2F&data=05%7C02%7Ckarl.kaiser%40mage nta.at%7Cc0603ea602cd4d32d5f008dea11125c5%7Cd313b56ff40044d384034b468 b3d8ded%7C1%7C0%7C639125292200554915%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0 eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsI ldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=6HOB3RrAwxlRHNVpdMYab7Ch9xMYVsd3ZX yRBVaVxbM%3D&reserved=0

All the information, and a calculator you can use to predict your potential fees for 2027, is available from: https://www/ .ripe.net%2Fs%2Fgm%2Fmay-2026-documents%2F&data=05%7C02%7Ckarl.kaiser %40magenta.at%7Cc0603ea602cd4d32d5f008dea11125c5%7Cd313b56ff40044d384 034b468b3d8ded%7C1%7C0%7C639125292200581468%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8e yJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTW FpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=rC2T5%2BsTyGkcQJWCErYp6OiEg %2B0lTw8if1dIpaYY0TU%3D&reserved=0

We are of course interested to hear what members think about the proposal.

And, very importantly, registration for the GM and to vote on your preferred option can be done quickly and easily through the LIR Portal: https://my/. ripe.net%2F%23%2Fmeetings%2Factive&data=05%7C02%7Ckarl.kaiser%40magen ta.at%7Cc0603ea602cd4d32d5f008dea11125c5%7Cd313b56ff40044d384034b468b 3d8ded%7C1%7C0%7C639125292200601148%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0e U1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIl dUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=vy%2FAFnZEXAz1Wpzp5xJ0lHREmzvgj9Sat dUBa4Xokkk%3D&reserved=0

Kind regards,

Fergal Cunningham Head of Membership Engagement RIPE NCC

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