- members-discuss - mailman.ripe.net

activity plan suggestion
by Sergey Myasoedov 07 Nov '11

07 Nov '11

Hello, there is a proposal for RIPE NCC and Executive board. As there is a criticism of RIPE NCC Activity plan and voting at the GM for the whole plan, I would like to propose to split the Activity plan into several statements and vote for each item of the plan separately. The voting can be done by show of hands directly at the GM. Thank you. -- Kind regards, Sergey

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Privatelayer Inc
by Nigel Titley 07 Nov '11

07 Nov '11

Dear Private Layer If there is anybody from Private Layer actually reading this list can they please take their ticketing system OFF it. You are the last member to do this. It is difficult to understand why you are unable to do this. There are two possibilities: 1. No one at Private Layer reads trouble tickets 2. No one at Private Layer knows how to take their ticket system off the list Neither bodes well for your continued viability as a commercial entity. Fondest regards Nigel

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Re: [members-discuss] Voting @ GM 2011
by Hank Nussbacher 07 Nov '11

07 Nov '11

At 11:54 07/11/2011 +0100, Lu Heng wrote: >Hi Hank: >They will take money from reserve as I heard in the GM. >It was like 4M(if I was not remember it wrong) shortage Always nice to have reserves, but they tend to dry up after extensive use. I hope the EB has some plans of cost cutting, other than RIPE NCC's ideas of cost cutting such as <sarcasm> taking on a 2MEuro RIPE ATLAS Probe project</sarcasm>. -Hank >On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 11:52 AM, Hank Nussbacher <hank(a)efes.iucc.ac.il> wrote: > > At 10:25 07/11/2011 +0000, James Blessing wrote: > >>On 07/11/2011 10:16, SPEEDNIC S.R.L. - RIPE Handling wrote: > >> > >> > Can you explain us and to the whole list what will be happen now as I > >> > guess it was the first time since we are a member that the GM don't > >> > adopt the Charging Scheme ?? > >> > >>As was explained at the GM by Nigel, the charging scheme that currently > >>exists would be used leading to an expected revenue shortfall > > > > In most businesses I know of, when there is an expected revenue shortfall, > > cuts are made - either in salary, amount of manpower or in projects. I > > hope RIPE NCC has contingency plans in place. > > > > Regards, > > Hank > > > > > >>J > >>-- > >>James Blessing > >>+44 7989 039 476 > >>Strategic Relations Manager, EMEA > >>Limelight Networks > >> > >>---- > >>If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > >>mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the > >>general page: > >>https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > >> > >>Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From > >>here, you can add or remove addresses. > > > > > > ---- > > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the > general page: > > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > > > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From > here, you can add or remove addresses. > > > > > >-- >This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) shown above. >It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or >otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination or use >of this transmission or its contents by persons other than the >intended addressee(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received >this transmission in error, please notify this office immediately and >e-mail the original at the sender's address above by replying to this >message and including the text of the transmission received.

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Re: [members-discuss] Proposed 2012 Charging scheme, Board comments
by Hank Nussbacher 29 Oct '11

29 Oct '11

At 11:16 03/10/2011 +0200, Erik Bais wrote: >Hi Jon, > >Without repeating myself in this discussion, I'll just post a url for you >to read from earlier this year on the topic. >http://www.ripe.net/maillists/ncc-archives/members-discuss/2011/msg00154.ht… > >Basically, the members approve the activity schedule for the RIPE NCC. >That means that we also shouldn't bitch about a certain cost, not for >profit doesn't mean free :) We do not get much of a say as to how much budget should be applied for regional meetings, consultancy, training courses, RIPE meetings, marketing, r&d, etc. We are given a budget that increases every year and are told to ratify it - of which only 5% of the membership vote. Most LIRs don't care if the fee is 3KEuro or 10KEuro since it just gets absorbed as a minor cost overhead as passed on to customers. And RIPE knows it. -Hank >If we don't agree..either we should have a look at how certain costs are >being made or we should scrap certain activities. > >In the end.. we're only talking about 6.25 euro per LIR per day. > >Regards, >Erik Bais > >---- >If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss >mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the >general page: >https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > >Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From >here, you can add or remove addresses.

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Re: [members-discuss] budget 2012
by poty＠iiat.ru 18 Oct '11

18 Oct '11

Hello everybody, >From the counts it seems that the "not much increase" paradigm is not in the intentions of the new charging scheme. While I'd prefer to see the numbers in percents of amount to pay, the counting shows - the new charging scheme is way off the initial good feeling. (I hope the counting are fair - i.e. includes independent resources like PI and ASN). I'd like also hear some words from RIPE NCC about several suggestions voiced in the list. Regards, Vladislav Potapov Ru.iiat From: members-discuss-bounces(a)ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net] On Behalf Of Jochem de Ruig Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 6:18 PM To: Nigel Titley; members-discuss(a)ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] budget 2012 Dear all, About 40% of members will pay less and about 60% of members will pay more. Pay less in EUR less than 1,000 0% 1,000 - 500 9% 499 - 0 31% Pay more 1 - 499 32% 500 - 999 3% 1,000 - 1,999 19% 2,000 - 5,000 4% more than 5,000 1% Regards, Jochem On Oct 12, 2011, at 6:24 PM, Nigel Titley wrote: On 12/10/2011 13:56, Mike Hollowell wrote: On Wed, 2011-10-12 at 13:30 +0100, Nigel Titley wrote: 30% of XSmall members moving up, 9% of XSmall members moving down. 59% of Small members moving up, 14% Small members moving down. 100% M, L& XL moving up. Doesn't look the least bit balanced, roughly or otherwise. I did talk about the costs and not the membership category. Let me see if Jochem can give us some figures on what percentage of members will see *cost* increase and decrease. Nigel

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Clarification re proposed Charging Scheme 2012
by Sascha Luck 13 Oct '11

13 Oct '11

Hi, the proposed CS2012 contains the following footnote to the table for the calculation of membership categories: "Note 1: All IPv4 and IPv6 addresses (Provider Independent and Provider Aggregatable) are taken into account." For clarification, does this mean all PI space managed by the LIR on behalf of End Users, or only PI space directly assigned to the LIR? If the former, what is the justification to charging for this space twice, once through moving into a higher category and again through the EUR50 annual charge for Independent Resources? rgds, Sascha Luck ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.

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Re: [members-discuss] budget 2012
by poty＠iiat.ru 13 Oct '11

13 Oct '11

Then - could you explain - why my question about why selling ASN per-number is not violating the current policy was not answered? Or you would deny this question too? > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Hartmann [mailto:richih.mailinglist@gmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 6:54 PM > To: Potapov Vladislav > Cc: gert(a)space.net; bangert(a)parknet.dk; members-discuss(a)ripe.net > Subject: Re: [members-discuss] budget 2012 > > On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 16:32, <poty(a)iiat.ru> wrote: > > > It IS true. Several people can prove that. The answer of the RIPE NCC > > was - it is already late to change something. The presentation was > > forged - and personally you knew that. > > While Gert did a good job of dismantling your factual points, I would > like to add a more personal/netiquette note. > > If you feel that you absolutely _have_ to accuse someone not only of > lying but of deliberate manipulation, please have some specific, > verifiable facts at the ready to back up your claim. In this specific > case, I highly doubt you have any. > > 2007-01 has been discussed at length prior to its voting. Coming late > to the game is not an excuse to pretend your voice was ignored on > purpose. > > > Richard ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.

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Side tracking on Charging schema and Auto-mail responders ...
by Erik Bais 13 Oct '11

13 Oct '11

If one would like to put a proposal forward that RIPE would actually increase the cost category of a LIR that replies to send emails on the general mail lists with a ticketing system with at least 1 category for the year ahead ... Is that something that one can ask for to vote on the AGM or is that something that needs a PDP proposal ? Kind regards, Erik Bais ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.

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FW: Clarification re proposed Charging Scheme 2012
by poty＠iiat.ru 13 Oct '11

13 Oct '11

-----Original Message----- From: Potapov Vladislav Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 12:27 PM To: 'Nigel Titley' Subject: RE: [members-discuss] Clarification re proposed Charging Scheme 2012 Nigel, Yes, LIR can charge the end user for this service, but the artificial "protection" measures have led to strange "side effects", which I'll try to explain in the real numbers of one of the LIRs I administer: What the LIR has: PA: 1x /19 AS: 1 Client PI: 1x /23 Client AS: 1 As you can see - nothing special and abusive? But let's think about that once more: - according to the PA allocation and LIRs ASN I'd pay in 2012: Category=M, >20 but <=19 IPv4, >8 but <=16 ASN = 2000 euro + 50 euro (1 ASN)= 2050 euro - serving the client's resources in addition: Category=L, >19 but <=16 IPv4, >16 but <=32 ASN = 3000 euro + 150 euro (2 ASN + PI)= 3150 euro So the "protective measures" costs the LIR legally serving only [1 PI assignment with ASN] additional 1100 euro or 550 euro for a "independent resource". Is it fair? How could the LIR count how much the client should pay for the resources if every year RIPE NCC invents new charging scheme with such huge deviations? IF (I pointed out once more - IF) the scheme should be voted - it MUST have some "independent resources margin" like it has about ASNs, but not pile up all addresses chunks. I should clarify my position about the three supporting documents listed in the GM 2011 agenda. - I'm not against rising budget, but the rise should be clearly explained. In this case the Activity Plan should have all the necessary cost values, the Budget - clear explanation what the additional expenses will go, Charging Scheme should be stable to be able to predict LIRs expenses. (Side note: if a company due to a very good business plan has unnecessary 1k-2k euro to pay for bad work of financial department of RIPE NCC, it could as well send the money to me - I'm very welcomed this motion. :) ). - The proposed Charging Scheme has not achieved declared goal - simplicity and in my opinion became even more tough to understand and have many dishonest issues. Then for the 2012 the Charging Scheme should be saved from 2011. Regards, Vladislav Potapov Ru.iiat > -----Original Message----- > From: members-discuss-bounces(a)ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss- > bounces(a)ripe.net] On Behalf Of Nigel Titley > Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 9:52 PM > To: members-discuss(a)ripe.net > Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Clarification re proposed Charging > Scheme 2012 > > On 12/10/2011 18:48, Sascha Luck wrote: > > Hi Jochem, > > > > On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 07:35:38PM +0200, Jochem de Ruig wrote: > >> For example, if a /18 is requested and would put an LIR into a > larger > >> category, if we did not take the PI resource into account for the > >> categorisation, requesting a /18 of PI space would be beneficial > over a > >> requesting a /18 of PA space. > > Right, this makes kind of sense for PI space assigned to the > requesting > > LIR. What about space requested on behalf of end users - the LIR > does > > not benefit from the use of this space, in fact after 2007-01 it > merely > > handles the request on behalf of the end user and the NCC. > > > The LIR is free to charge the end user for this service, surely? Or am > I > confused? > > Nigel > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the > general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From > here, you can add or remove addresses. ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.

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Fwd: [ncc-announce] [NOC #EXN-767-26459]: 128.0.0.0/16 configured as martian: Please update your routers
by Alfredo Sola 13 Oct '11

13 Oct '11

Does this set a new record? These mor^H^H^Hcolleagues have their RIPE-subscribed address redirected to their ticketing system, AND this Fabien guy who receives the new ticket notifications has set an auto-responder that respects neither a mailing list, nor his own ticketing system. I have to confess that I am beginning to be rather unpolite with this kind of situation. If I had nothing better to do... Inicio del mensaje reenviado: > De: "postmaster(a)internet-fr.net" <noc(a)fmn.uk.net> > Asunto: [ncc-announce] [NOC #EXN-767-26459]: 128.0.0.0/16 configured as martian: Please update your routers > Fecha: 13 de octubre de 2011 10:45:09 GMT+02:00 > Para: ncc-announce(a)ripe.net > Responder a: noc(a)fmn.uk.net > > Bonjour, > Je suis actuellement en cong?, de retour mercredi 19 Octobre. En cas d'urgence, merci de contacter notre service support au +33 1 64 53 17 98. > Cordialement, > > Hi, > I'm in vacation until Wednesday 19th Oct. You can reach our support team at this phone number: +33 1 64 53 17 98. > regards, > > Fabien Dedenon > Internet Fr > > > > Ticket Details > Ticket ID: EXN-767-26459 > Department: Network Operations (NOC) > Type: Issue > Status: Open > Priority: Medium > > Support Center: http://helpdesk.fmn.uk.net/index.php? > > Cordialement, > > Hi, > I'm in vacation until Wednesday 19th Oct. You can reach our support team at this phone number: +33 1 64 53 17 98. > regards, > > Fabien Dedenon > Internet Fr > > > > Ticket Details > Ticket ID: EXN-767-26459 > Department: Network Operations (NOC) > Type: Issue > Status: Open > Priority: Medium > > Support Center: http://helpdesk.fmn.uk.net/index.php? -- Alfredo Sola ASP5-RIPE http://www.solucionesdinamicas.net/ ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.

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