RIPE forces us to pay the bill unfairly
Hello everybody! We got a problem! We want to share it with you to find out your opinion on this matter. We are transferring our network to other company. The transfer is approved. As policy prescribed, you have to pay the annual fee. For today these are the third quartal and the forth. But RIPE forces us to pay the bill for the first quartal, however our LIR was opened later in the second one. ( in APRIL 2018). We would like to see and discuss the rules, where it is prescribed what to pay in such cases. Where we can read the regulation that you need to pay an annual fee for the quarters in which Lir did not even exist. Furthermore, we have 5 more LIRs on one company. Is it fare to be forced to pay all annual invoices on all Lirs, before the transfer one part of the network from 1 LIR? --Olena Dmytrenko
Hi Olena, I remember that it is written somewhere in RIPE terms and conditions that you can not transfer resources within the first year. And it makes complete sense since the price of IPv4 resources is skyrocketing. It would be easy money for us if RIPE would allow it, meantime no IPv4 resource would have remained available. Bledi Vako
On 9 Jul 2018, at 07:47, "olena.dmytrenko@bignet.ua" <olena.dmytrenko@bignet.ua> wrote:
Hello everybody! We got a problem! We want to share it with you to find out your opinion on this matter. We are transferring our network to other company. The transfer is approved. As policy prescribed, you have to pay the annual fee. For today these are the third quartal and the forth. But RIPE forces us to pay the bill for the first quartal, however our LIR was opened later in the second one. ( in APRIL 2018). We would like to see and discuss the rules, where it is prescribed what to pay in such cases. Where we can read the regulation that you need to pay an annual fee for the quarters in which Lir did not even exist.
Furthermore, we have 5 more LIRs on one company. Is it fare to be forced to pay all annual invoices on all Lirs, before the transfer one part of the network from 1 LIR?
-- Olena Dmytrenko <Screenshot_1.png> _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net BLOCKEDlists[.]ripe[.]net/mailman/listinfo/members-discussBLOCKED Unsubscribe: BLOCKEDlists[.]ripe[.]net/mailman/options/members-discuss/bledi[.]vako%40intesasanpaolobank[.]alBLOCKED
Yes all invoice paying no pay no transfer -------- Orijinal mesaj -------- Başlangıç tarihi: olena.dmytrenko@bignet.ua Tarih: 09.07.2018 15:46 (GMT+10:00) Alıcı: members-discuss@ripe.net Konu: [members-discuss] RIPE forces us to pay the bill unfairly Hello everybody! We got a problem! We want to share it with you to find out your opinion on this matter. We are transferring our network to other company. The transfer is approved. As policy prescribed, you have to pay the annual fee. For today these are the third quartal and the forth. But RIPE forces us to pay the bill for the first quartal, however our LIR was opened later in the second one. ( in APRIL 2018). We would like to see and discuss the rules, where it is prescribed what to pay in such cases. Where we can read the regulation that you need to pay an annual fee for the quarters in which Lir did not even exist. Furthermore, we have 5 more LIRs on one company. Is it fare to be forced to pay all annual invoices on all Lirs, before the transfer one part of the network from 1 LIR? -- Olena Dmytrenko
* olena.dmytrenko@bignet.ua <olena.dmytrenko@bignet.ua> [2018-07-09 07:46]:
We got a problem! We want to share it with you to find out your opinion on this matter. We are transferring our network to other company. The transfer is approved. As policy prescribed, you have to pay the annual fee. For today these are the third quartal and the forth. But RIPE forces us to pay the bill for the first quartal, however our LIR was opened later in the second one. ( in APRIL 2018). We would like to see and discuss the rules, where it is prescribed what to pay in such cases. Where we can read the regulation that you need to pay an annual fee for the quarters in which Lir did not even exist.
Here is the rule, I think this is pretty clear: https://www.ripe.net/participate/member-support/payment/billing-procedure-an... "A member must pay the full annual service fee for each LIR account(s) held before they can transfer resources or close their LIR account(s). Only when the full annual service fee for every LIR account has been paid can the transfer or closure take place."
Furthermore, we have 5 more LIRs on one company. Is it fare to be forced to pay all annual invoices on all Lirs, before the transfer one part of the network from 1 LIR?
Yes. See the rule above. It is meant to discourage opening LIRs simply to get IPv4 space. This is exactly how it is supposed to work. Regards Sebastian -- Sebastian Wiesinger Principal Network Architect Network & Security (ONS) noris network AG Thomas-Mann-Straße 16-20 90471 Nürnberg Deutschland Tel +49 911 9352 1335 Fax +49 911 9352 100 sebastian.wiesinger@noris.de https://www.noris.de - Mehr Leistung als Standard Vorstand: Ingo Kraupa (Vorsitzender), Joachim Astel, Jürgen Städing - Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Stefan Schnabel - AG Nürnberg HRB 17689
Hello, That is what the transfer policy states. As stated in their billing procedure before a member transfer resources or close their LIR accounts, a member will have to pay the full annual service fee for the year in question for the LIR accounts they hold. Only when the full annual service fee for every LIR account has been paid can the transfer or closure take place. On January 1st <x-apple-data-detectors://2> of each year members owe the RIPE NCC the full annual service fee for that year. Some members pay this in an annual, half-yearly or quarterly invoices. However, for the transfer service, the member’s full membership must be paid in order to proceed. Please find more information via the following link: https://www.ripe.net/participate/member-support/payment/billing-procedure-an... Kind regards, Jack On Mon, 9 Jul 2018 at 08:30, Sebastian Wiesinger < sebastian.wiesinger@noris.net> wrote:
We got a problem! We want to share it with you to find out your opinion on this matter. We are transferring our network to other company. The transfer is approved. As policy prescribed, you have to pay the annual fee. For today these are the third quartal and the forth. But RIPE forces us to pay the bill for the first quartal, however our LIR was opened later in the second one. ( in APRIL 2018). We would like to see and discuss the rules, where it is prescribed what to pay in such cases. Where we can read the regulation that you need to pay an annual fee for
* olena.dmytrenko@bignet.ua <olena.dmytrenko@bignet.ua> [2018-07-09 07:46]: the quarters in which Lir did not even exist.
Here is the rule, I think this is pretty clear:
https://www.ripe.net/participate/member-support/payment/billing-procedure-an...
"A member must pay the full annual service fee for each LIR account(s) held before they can transfer resources or close their LIR account(s). Only when the full annual service fee for every LIR account has been paid can the transfer or closure take place."
Furthermore, we have 5 more LIRs on one company. Is it fare to be forced to pay all annual invoices on all Lirs, before the transfer one part of the network from 1 LIR?
Yes. See the rule above. It is meant to discourage opening LIRs simply to get IPv4 space. This is exactly how it is supposed to work.
Regards
Sebastian
-- Sebastian Wiesinger Principal Network Architect Network & Security (ONS)
noris network AG Thomas-Mann-Straße 16-20 90471 Nürnberg Deutschland
Tel +49 911 9352 1335 Fax +49 911 9352 100
sebastian.wiesinger@noris.de https://www.noris.de - Mehr Leistung als Standard
Vorstand: Ingo Kraupa (Vorsitzender), Joachim Astel, Jürgen Städing - Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Stefan Schnabel - AG Nürnberg HRB 17689
_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/jack%40sephton.us
-- Sent from Gmail Mobile
The only reason why it is able to open 5 LIRs is because the community wants to know who really owns them; instead of some fake companies. However, this doesn’t mean that you should do that even if you can as the last /22 shouldn’t be treated as a cheaper alternative to getting more space than the IPv4 market. On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 08:28 Sebastian Wiesinger < sebastian.wiesinger@noris.net> wrote:
We got a problem! We want to share it with you to find out your opinion on this matter. We are transferring our network to other company. The transfer is approved. As policy prescribed, you have to pay the annual fee. For today these are the third quartal and the forth. But RIPE forces us to pay the bill for the first quartal, however our LIR was opened later in the second one. ( in APRIL 2018). We would like to see and discuss the rules, where it is prescribed what to pay in such cases. Where we can read the regulation that you need to pay an annual fee for
* olena.dmytrenko@bignet.ua <olena.dmytrenko@bignet.ua> [2018-07-09 07:46]: the quarters in which Lir did not even exist.
Here is the rule, I think this is pretty clear:
https://www.ripe.net/participate/member-support/payment/billing-procedure-an...
"A member must pay the full annual service fee for each LIR account(s) held before they can transfer resources or close their LIR account(s). Only when the full annual service fee for every LIR account has been paid can the transfer or closure take place."
Furthermore, we have 5 more LIRs on one company. Is it fare to be forced to pay all annual invoices on all Lirs, before the transfer one part of the network from 1 LIR?
Yes. See the rule above. It is meant to discourage opening LIRs simply to get IPv4 space. This is exactly how it is supposed to work.
Regards
Sebastian
-- Sebastian Wiesinger Principal Network Architect Network & Security (ONS)
noris network AG Thomas-Mann-Straße 16-20 90471 Nürnberg Deutschland
Tel +49 911 9352 1335 Fax +49 911 9352 100
sebastian.wiesinger@noris.de https://www.noris.de - Mehr Leistung als Standard
Vorstand: Ingo Kraupa (Vorsitzender), Joachim Astel, Jürgen Städing - Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Stefan Schnabel - AG Nürnberg HRB 17689
_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/tech%40outsideheaven....
-- This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) shown above. It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by persons other than the intended addressee(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify this office immediately and e-mail the original at the sender's address above by replying to this message and including the text of the transmission received.
Hi You just need to follow the rules. 2018-07-06 16:53 GMT+02:00 <olena.dmytrenko@bignet.ua>:
Hello everybody! We got a problem! We want to share it with you to find out your opinion on this matter. We are transferring our network to other company. The transfer is approved. As policy prescribed, you have to pay the annual fee. For today these are the third quartal and the forth. But RIPE forces us to pay the bill for the first quartal, however our LIR was opened later in the second one. ( in APRIL 2018). We would like to see and discuss the rules, where it is prescribed what to pay in such cases. Where we can read the regulation that you need to pay an annual fee for the quarters in which Lir did not even exist.
Furthermore, we have 5 more LIRs on one company. Is it fare to be forced to pay all annual invoices on all Lirs, before the transfer one part of the network from 1 LIR?
-- Olena Dmytrenko
_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/maxim%40ardis.ru
Hello, It’s fair, as you see it’s divided into 2 parts, the membership, and for the yearly LIR payments which are divided into quartets. So you don’t pay for what you haven’t used, or if you decide to leave. I for example pay the LIR bill yearly. It’s less hassle and remembering the payments due, and if you forget or get busy and don’t notice like it always happens with me as I’m holding the bag alone and walking, (somethings you just can’t trust anyone with, your wife, yourself, your money, and ip’s!) I want to even ask for resources and I just keep missing that button! So fair? Yeah, in my opinion, it’s easier the whole year (-what you didn’t‘ think use of the time for newcomers) But that’s my opinion, I’m still searching for the wife, finding where my money i, but at least I know me, fully trust me! And never doubt it no matter. As my ip’s.... well they keep wandering around but get hold of them so at least I know they aren’t used for any illegal or malicious purpose in anyway by anyone, hard, but not MI! Best Regards, Mohamed Ali Bubteina Tel +44 (0) 20 7862 6331 Cell +44 (0) 747474 0934 - +961 (79) 1111 93 Fax +44 (0) 203 608 0612 Email: Manager@Bubteina.Group Registered name: Bubtaina Group Limited Place of registration: England and Wales Registered number: 08762428 The information in this email is confidential and solely for the use of the intended recipient(s). If you receive this email in error, please notify the sender and delete the email from your system immediately. In such circumstances, you must not make any use of the email or its contents. Views expressed by an individual in this email do not necessarily reflect the views of Bubtaina Group Limited. The company and its Subsidiaries, complies with the EU-U.S Privacy Shield Framework and Swiss U.S Privacy Shield as set forth by the U.S Department of Commerce and with the Information Commissioner Office in the United Kingdom, regarding use, collection, and retention of any information held and maintained.
On 6 Jul 2018, at 17:53, olena.dmytrenko@bignet.ua wrote:
Hello everybody! We got a problem! We want to share it with you to find out your opinion on this matter. We are transferring our network to other company. The transfer is approved. As policy prescribed, you have to pay the annual fee. For today these are the third quartal and the forth. But RIPE forces us to pay the bill for the first quartal, however our LIR was opened later in the second one. ( in APRIL 2018). We would like to see and discuss the rules, where it is prescribed what to pay in such cases. Where we can read the regulation that you need to pay an annual fee for the quarters in which Lir did not even exist.
Furthermore, we have 5 more LIRs on one company. Is it fare to be forced to pay all annual invoices on all Lirs, before the transfer one part of the network from 1 LIR?
-- Olena Dmytrenko <Screenshot_1.png> _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/mohamed%40bubtaina.co...
Ripe, has fair and clear procedures. Read before say something. Regards, Adi ________________________________ From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Mohamed Bubtaina <mohamed@bubtaina.com> Sent: Monday, July 9, 2018 3:46:07 PM To: olena.dmytrenko@bignet.ua Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE forces us to pay the bill unfairly Hello, It’s fair, as you see it’s divided into 2 parts, the membership, and for the yearly LIR payments which are divided into quartets. So you don’t pay for what you haven’t used, or if you decide to leave. I for example pay the LIR bill yearly. It’s less hassle and remembering the payments due, and if you forget or get busy and don’t notice like it always happens with me as I’m holding the bag alone and walking, (somethings you just can’t trust anyone with, your wife, yourself, your money, and ip’s!) I want to even ask for resources and I just keep missing that button! So fair? Yeah, in my opinion, it’s easier the whole year (-what you didn’t‘ think use of the time for newcomers) But that’s my opinion, I’m still searching for the wife, finding where my money i, but at least I know me, fully trust me! And never doubt it no matter. As my ip’s.... well they keep wandering around but get hold of them so at least I know they aren’t used for any illegal or malicious purpose in anyway by anyone, hard, but not MI! Best Regards, Mohamed Ali Bubteina [cid:53c24c7c-ffec-4188-b16e-251b6a60a1d7@eurprd03.prod.outlook.com] Tel +44 (0) 20 7862 6331 Cell +44 (0) 747474 0934 - +961 (79) 1111 93 Fax +44 (0) 203 608 0612 Email: Manager@Bubteina.Group Registered name: Bubtaina Group Limited Place of registration: England and Wales Registered number: 08762428 The information in this email is confidential and solely for the use of the intended recipient(s). If you receive this email in error, please notify the sender and delete the email from your system immediately. In such circumstances, you must not make any use of the email or its contents. Views expressed by an individual in this email do not necessarily reflect the views of Bubtaina Group Limited. The company and its Subsidiaries, complies with the EU-U.S Privacy Shield Framework and Swiss U.S Privacy Shield as set forth by the U.S Department of Commerce and with the Information Commissioner Office in the United Kingdom, regarding use, collection, and retention of any information held and maintained.
On 6 Jul 2018, at 17:53, olena.dmytrenko@bignet.ua wrote:
Hello everybody! We got a problem! We want to share it with you to find out your opinion on this matter. We are transferring our network to other company. The transfer is approved. As policy prescribed, you have to pay the annual fee. For today these are the third quartal and the forth. But RIPE forces us to pay the bill for the first quartal, however our LIR was opened later in the second one. ( in APRIL 2018). We would like to see and discuss the rules, where it is prescribed what to pay in such cases. Where we can read the regulation that you need to pay an annual fee for the quarters in which Lir did not even exist.
Furthermore, we have 5 more LIRs on one company. Is it fare to be forced to pay all annual invoices on all Lirs, before the transfer one part of the network from 1 LIR?
-- Olena Dmytrenko <Screenshot_1.png> _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/mohamed%40bubtaina.co...
members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/adi.vaizovic%40teline...
Dear all, Our LIR has signed agreement in April of the 2018 year. How can we pay the invoice on the service which wasn't given to us. How can you pay for the service which was earlier than the agreement? -- Olena Dmytrenko From: Adi Vaizovic <adi.vaizovic@telinea.com> To: Mohamed Bubtaina <mohamed@bubtaina.com>, "olena.dmytrenko@bignet.ua" <olena.dmytrenko@bignet.ua> Cc: "members-discuss@ripe.net" <members-discuss@ripe.net> Sent: 7/9/2018 2:51 PM Subject: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE forces us to pay the bill unfairly Ripe, has fair and clear procedures. Read before say something. Regards, Adi ---------------- From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Mohamed Bubtaina <mohamed@bubtaina.com> Sent: Monday, July 9, 2018 3:46:07 PM To: olena.dmytrenko@bignet.ua Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE forces us to pay the bill unfairly Hello, It’s fair, as you see it’s divided into 2 parts, the membership, and for the yearly LIR payments which are divided into quartets. So you don’t pay for what you haven’t used, or if you decide to leave. I for example pay the LIR bill yearly. It’s less hassle and remembering the payments due, and if you forget or get busy and don’t notice like it always happens with me as I’m holding the bag alone and walking, (somethings you just can’t trust anyone with, your wife, yourself, your money, and ip’s!) I want to even ask for resources and I just keep missing that button! So fair? Yeah, in my opinion, it’s easier the whole year (-what you didn’t‘ think use of the time for newcomers) But that’s my opinion, I’m still searching for the wife, finding where my money i, but at least I know me, fully trust me! And never doubt it no matter. As my ip’s.... well they keep wandering around but get hold of them so at least I know they aren’t used for any illegal or malicious purpose in anyway by anyone, hard, but not MI! Best Regards, Mohamed Ali Bubteina Tel +44 (0) 20 7862 6331 Cell +44 (0) 747474 0934 - +961 (79) 1111 93 Fax +44 (0) 203 608 0612 Email: Manager@Bubteina.Group Registered name: Bubtaina Group Limited Place of registration: England and Wales Registered number: 08762428 The information in this email is confidential and solely for the use of the intended recipient(s). If you receive this email in error, please notify the sender and delete the email from your system immediately. In such circumstances, you must not make any use of the email or its contents. Views expressed by an individual in this email do not necessarily reflect the views of Bubtaina Group Limited. The company and its Subsidiaries, complies with the EU-U.S Privacy Shield Framework and Swiss U.S Privacy Shield as set forth by the U.S Department of Commerce and with the Information Commissioner Office in the United Kingdom, regarding use, collection, and retention of any information held and maintained.
On 6 Jul 2018, at 17:53, olena.dmytrenko@bignet.ua wrote:
Hello everybody! We got a problem! We want to share it with you to find out your opinion on this matter. We are transferring our network to other company. The transfer is approved. As policy prescribed, you have to pay the annual fee. For today these are the third quartal and the forth. But RIPE forces us to pay the bill for the first quartal, however our LIR was opened later in the second one. ( in APRIL 2018). We would like to see and discuss the rules, where it is prescribed what to pay in such cases. Where we can read the regulation that you need to pay an annual fee for the quarters in which Lir did not even exist.
Furthermore, we have 5 more LIRs on one company. Is it fare to be forced to pay all annual invoices on all Lirs, before the transfer one part of the network from 1 LIR?
-- Olena Dmytrenko <Screenshot_1.png> _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/mohamed%40bubtaina.co...
_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/adi.vaizovic%40teline...
On Mon, Jul 09, 2018 at 09:03:15PM +0300, olena.dmytrenko@bignet.ua wrote:
Dear all, Our LIR has signed agreement in April of the 2018 year. How can we pay the invoice on the service which wasn't given to us. How can you pay for the service which was earlier than the agreement?
When you order resources, you get a one-year fee for their usage. You may pay two halfs or four quarters, but if you transfer them - you must pay a fee for the whole year. Consider that fee not as 1st quarter 2018, but as 1st quarter 2019 Stop cheating and just pay the bill. -- Nick Yakimenko ua.voks
-- Olena Dmytrenko
From: Adi Vaizovic <adi.vaizovic@telinea.com> To: Mohamed Bubtaina <mohamed@bubtaina.com>, "olena.dmytrenko@bignet.ua" <olena.dmytrenko@bignet.ua> Cc: "members-discuss@ripe.net" <members-discuss@ripe.net> Sent: 7/9/2018 2:51 PM Subject: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE forces us to pay the bill unfairly
Ripe, has fair and clear procedures.
Read before say something.
Regards,
Adi ----------------
From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Mohamed Bubtaina <mohamed@bubtaina.com> Sent: Monday, July 9, 2018 3:46:07 PM To: olena.dmytrenko@bignet.ua Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE forces us to pay the bill unfairly
Hello,
It’s fair, as you see it’s divided into 2 parts, the membership, and for the yearly LIR payments which are divided into quartets. So you don’t pay for what you haven’t used, or if you decide to leave. I for example pay the LIR bill yearly. It’s less hassle and remembering the payments due, and if you forget or get busy and don’t notice like it always happens with me as I’m holding the bag alone and walking, (somethings you just can’t trust anyone with, your wife, yourself, your money, and ip’s!) I want to even ask for resources and I just keep missing that button! So fair? Yeah, in my opinion, it’s easier the whole year (-what you didn’t‘ think use of the time for newcomers)
But that’s my opinion, I’m still searching for the wife, finding where my money i, but at least I know me, fully trust me! And never doubt it no matter. As my ip’s.... well they keep wandering around but get hold of them so at least I know they aren’t used for any illegal or malicious purpose in anyway by anyone, hard, but not MI!
Best Regards,
Mohamed Ali Bubteina
Tel +44 (0) 20 7862 6331 Cell +44 (0) 747474 0934 - +961 (79) 1111 93 Fax +44 (0) 203 608 0612 Email: Manager@Bubteina.Group
Registered name: Bubtaina Group Limited Place of registration: England and Wales Registered number: 08762428
The information in this email is confidential and solely for the use of the intended recipient(s). If you receive this email in error, please notify the sender and delete the email from your system immediately. In such circumstances, you must not make any use of the email or its contents.
Views expressed by an individual in this email do not necessarily reflect the views of Bubtaina Group Limited. The company and its Subsidiaries, complies with the EU-U.S Privacy Shield Framework and Swiss U.S Privacy Shield as set forth by the U.S Department of Commerce and with the Information Commissioner Office in the United Kingdom, regarding use, collection, and retention of any information held and maintained.
On 6 Jul 2018, at 17:53, olena.dmytrenko@bignet.ua wrote:
Hello everybody! We got a problem! We want to share it with you to find out your opinion on this matter. We are transferring our network to other company. The transfer is approved. As policy prescribed, you have to pay the annual fee. For today these are the third quartal and the forth. But RIPE forces us to pay the bill for the first quartal, however our LIR was opened later in the second one. ( in APRIL 2018). We would like to see and discuss the rules, where it is prescribed what to pay in such cases. Where we can read the regulation that you need to pay an annual fee for the quarters in which Lir did not even exist.
Furthermore, we have 5 more LIRs on one company. Is it fare to be forced to pay all annual invoices on all Lirs, before the transfer one part of the network from 1 LIR?
-- Olena Dmytrenko <Screenshot_1.png> _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/mohamed%40bubtaina.co...
_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/adi.vaizovic%40teline...
_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/ripe%40voks.ua
What does it mean "consider 1st quarter 2019" when the invoice is for 1st quarter 2018??? In 2019 will be another invoice for 1st quarter 2019! It is not only unfair, but for me even unlawful to ask for the payment for the quarter BEFORE the agreement was signed! Was it really 1st quarter of 2018, not 1st quarter of 2019 (this case it will be payment for one year really)? 10.07.18 09:07, ripe@voks.ua пише:
On Mon, Jul 09, 2018 at 09:03:15PM +0300, olena.dmytrenko@bignet.ua wrote:
Dear all, Our LIR has signed agreement in April of the 2018 year. How can we pay the invoice on the service which wasn't given to us. How can you pay for the service which was earlier than the agreement? When you order resources, you get a one-year fee for their usage. You may pay two halfs or four quarters, but if you transfer them - you must pay a fee for the whole year.
Consider that fee not as 1st quarter 2018, but as 1st quarter 2019
Stop cheating and just pay the bill.
Hi, Please read the charging scheme carefully, it only talks about an annual fee. The offer to pay it in 4 steps is just an offer but doesn't change anything about the amount. There is no monthly fee or daily fee... There are no definitions that entering over the year reduces the costs. Maybe we should just remove that offer to not pay everything at once, this would decrease discussions and time for processing a transfer. BR Jens Am 13. Juli 2018 16:41:27 MESZ schrieb Max Tulyev <maxtul@netassist.ua>:
What does it mean "consider 1st quarter 2019" when the invoice is for 1st quarter 2018??? In 2019 will be another invoice for 1st quarter 2019!
It is not only unfair, but for me even unlawful to ask for the payment for the quarter BEFORE the agreement was signed!
Was it really 1st quarter of 2018, not 1st quarter of 2019 (this case it will be payment for one year really)?
On Mon, Jul 09, 2018 at 09:03:15PM +0300, olena.dmytrenko@bignet.ua wrote:
Dear all, Our LIR has signed agreement in April of the 2018 year. How can we pay the invoice on the service which wasn't given to us. How can you pay for the service which was earlier than the agreement? When you order resources, you get a one-year fee for their usage. You may pay two halfs or four quarters, but if you transfer them - you must
10.07.18 09:07, ripe@voks.ua пише: pay a fee for the whole year.
Consider that fee not as 1st quarter 2018, but as 1st quarter 2019
Stop cheating and just pay the bill.
_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/ripe%40opteamax.de
!DSPAM:1229,5b4c27d179821936468041!
-- Jens Ott Geschäftsführer Opteamax GmbH Simrockstr. 4b 53619 Rheinbreitbach Tel.: +49 2224 969500 Fax: +49 2224 97691059 Email: jo@opteamax.de HRB: 23144, Amtsgericht Montabaur Geschäftsführer: Jens Ott Umsatzsteuer-ID.: DE264133989
Hi Jens, Actually, the RIPE service fee for new members is charged on a pro-rata basis, so if you join part way through the year, then you only pay for part of the year. I seem to recall that this is done down quarterly granularity. See https://www.ripe.net/participate/member-support/payment/billing-procedure-an... for example. Edward Dore Freethought Internet From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Jens Ott <ripe@opteamax.de> Date: Monday, 16 July 2018 at 07:02 To: "members-discuss@ripe.net" <members-discuss@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE forces us to pay the bill unfairly Hi, Please read the charging scheme carefully, it only talks about an annual fee. The offer to pay it in 4 steps is just an offer but doesn't change anything about the amount. There is no monthly fee or daily fee... There are no definitions that entering over the year reduces the costs. Maybe we should just remove that offer to not pay everything at once, this would decrease discussions and time for processing a transfer. BR Jens
Hi all, "A member must pay the full annual service fee for each LIR account(s) held before they can transfer resources or close their LIR account(s)" There is no word about accounts that have not been active for the full year. -- Andrey 16 липня 2018, 13:01:52, від "Freethought Hostmaster" <hostmaster@freethought-internet.co.uk>: Hi Jens, Actually, the RIPE service fee for new members is charged on a pro-rata basis, so if you join part way through the year, then you only pay for part of the year. I seem to recall that this is done down quarterly granularity. See https://www.ripe.net/participate/member-support/payment/billing-procedure-an... for example. Edward Dore Freethought Internet From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Jens Ott <ripe@opteamax.de> Date: Monday, 16 July 2018 at 07:02 To: "members-discuss@ripe.net" <members-discuss@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE forces us to pay the bill unfairly Hi, Please read the charging scheme carefully, it only talks about an annual fee. The offer to pay it in 4 steps is just an offer but doesn't change anything about the amount. There is no monthly fee or daily fee... There are no definitions that entering over the year reduces the costs. Maybe we should just remove that offer to not pay everything at once, this would decrease discussions and time for processing a transfer. BR Jens _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/levrinets.andrey%40uk...
Hi. There isn't a secret that noncommercial organisation earns money and doesn't want to share it. But it shows that it cares about members trying to keep IPv4 pool available for future business so long asit possible. But there is market where everyone can buy necessary IPv4 without request to mantioned organisation. вт, 17 Июл 2018 г., 9:05 Andrey Levrinets <levrinets.andrey@ukr.net>:
Hi all, "A member must pay the full annual service fee for each LIR account(s) held before they can transfer resources or close their LIR account(s)" There is no word about accounts that have not been active for the full year.
-- Andrey
*16 липня 2018, 13:01:52, від "Freethought Hostmaster" <hostmaster@freethought-internet.co.uk <hostmaster@freethought-internet.co.uk>>:*
Hi Jens,
Actually, the RIPE service fee for new members is charged on a pro-rata basis, so if you join part way through the year, then you only pay for part of the year. I seem to recall that this is done down quarterly granularity.
See https://www.ripe.net/participate/member-support/payment/billing-procedure-an... for example.
Edward Dore Freethought Internet
*From: *members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Jens Ott <ripe@opteamax.de> *Date: *Monday, 16 July 2018 at 07:02 *To: *"members-discuss@ripe.net" <members-discuss@ripe.net> *Subject: *Re: [members-discuss] RIPE forces us to pay the bill unfairly
Hi,
Please read the charging scheme carefully, it only talks about an annual fee. The offer to pay it in 4 steps is just an offer but doesn't change anything about the amount. There is no monthly fee or daily fee... There are no definitions that entering over the year reduces the costs.
Maybe we should just remove that offer to not pay everything at once, this would decrease discussions and time for processing a transfer.
BR Jens
_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing listmembers-discuss@ripe.nethttps://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/levrinets.andrey%40uk...
_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/aleksbulgakov%40gmail...
Hi, As far as I understood people were transferred the Ipv6 block. They are forced to pay extra 350 euros. And they did not even talk about Ipv4 at all. Why do you talk about market? -- Alexandr Buzaev 2018-07-17 6:20 GMT+00:00 Aleksey Bulgakov <aleksbulgakov@gmail.com>:
Hi.
There isn't a secret that noncommercial organisation earns money and doesn't want to share it. But it shows that it cares about members trying to keep IPv4 pool available for future business so long asit possible. But there is market where everyone can buy necessary IPv4 without request to mantioned organisation.
вт, 17 Июл 2018 г., 9:05 Andrey Levrinets <levrinets.andrey@ukr.net>:
Hi all, "A member must pay the full annual service fee for each LIR account(s) held before they can transfer resources or close their LIR account(s)" There is no word about accounts that have not been active for the full year.
-- Andrey
*16 липня 2018, 13:01:52, від "Freethought Hostmaster" <hostmaster@freethought-internet.co.uk <hostmaster@freethought-internet.co.uk>>:*
Hi Jens,
Actually, the RIPE service fee for new members is charged on a pro-rata basis, so if you join part way through the year, then you only pay for part of the year. I seem to recall that this is done down quarterly granularity.
See https://www.ripe.net/participate/member-support/ payment/billing-procedure-and-fee-schedule-2018#fees-for-new-members for example.
Edward Dore Freethought Internet
*From: *members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Jens Ott <ripe@opteamax.de> *Date: *Monday, 16 July 2018 at 07:02 *To: *"members-discuss@ripe.net" <members-discuss@ripe.net> *Subject: *Re: [members-discuss] RIPE forces us to pay the bill unfairly
Hi,
Please read the charging scheme carefully, it only talks about an annual fee. The offer to pay it in 4 steps is just an offer but doesn't change anything about the amount. There is no monthly fee or daily fee... There are no definitions that entering over the year reduces the costs.
Maybe we should just remove that offer to not pay everything at once, this would decrease discussions and time for processing a transfer.
BR Jens
_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing listmembers-discuss@ripe.nethttps://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/levrinets.andrey%40uk...
_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members- discuss/aleksbulgakov%40gmail.com
_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members- discuss/iberia.buz%40gmail.com
"There isn't a secret that noncommercial organisation earns money and doesn't want to share it." Each organization has its own set of rules, but they can not contradict the law. I also do not understand how it is possible to bill for a service under the agreement "after the fact". Kind regards, Sergey Cheromush 17 липня 2018, 10:57:45, від "Aleksey Bulgakov" <aleksbulgakov@gmail.com>: Hi. There isn't a secret that noncommercial organisation earns money and doesn't want to share it. But it shows that it cares about members trying to keep IPv4 pool available for future business so long asit possible. But there is market where everyone can buy necessary IPv4 without request to mantioned organisation. вт, 17 Июл 2018 г., 9:05 Andrey Levrinets <levrinets.andrey@ukr.net>: Hi all, "A member must pay the full annual service fee for each LIR account(s) held before they can transfer resources or close their LIR account(s)" There is no word about accounts that have not been active for the full year. -- Andrey 16 липня 2018, 13:01:52, від "Freethought Hostmaster" <hostmaster@freethought-internet.co.uk>: Hi Jens, Actually, the RIPE service fee for new members is charged on a pro-rata basis, so if you join part way through the year, then you only pay for part of the year. I seem to recall that this is done down quarterly granularity. See https://www.ripe.net/participate/member-support/payment/billing-procedure-an... for example. Edward Dore Freethought Internet From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Jens Ott <ripe@opteamax.de> Date: Monday, 16 July 2018 at 07:02 To: "members-discuss@ripe.net" <members-discuss@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE forces us to pay the bill unfairly Hi, Please read the charging scheme carefully, it only talks about an annual fee. The offer to pay it in 4 steps is just an offer but doesn't change anything about the amount. There is no monthly fee or daily fee... There are no definitions that entering over the year reduces the costs. Maybe we should just remove that offer to not pay everything at once, this would decrease discussions and time for processing a transfer. BR Jens _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/levrinets.andrey%40uk... _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/aleksbulgakov%40gmail... _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/bestseller.group%40uk...
I'm getting the impression we have quite a lot of experts on Dutch law around on this list. Fascinating! Kind regards, C. ________________________________ From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Сергій Черьомуш <bestseller.group@ukr.net> Sent: 17 July 2018 11:26:59 To: Aleksey Bulgakov Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE forces us to pay the bill unfairly "There isn't a secret that noncommercial organisation earns money and doesn't want to share it." Each organization has its own set of rules, but they can not contradict the law. I also do not understand how it is possible to bill for a service under the agreement "after the fact". Kind regards, Sergey Cheromush 17 липня 2018, 10:57:45, від "Aleksey Bulgakov" <aleksbulgakov@gmail.com<mailto:aleksbulgakov@gmail.com>>: Hi. There isn't a secret that noncommercial organisation earns money and doesn't want to share it. But it shows that it cares about members trying to keep IPv4 pool available for future business so long asit possible. But there is market where everyone can buy necessary IPv4 without request to mantioned organisation. вт, 17 Июл 2018 г., 9:05 Andrey Levrinets <levrinets.andrey@ukr.net<mailto:levrinets.andrey@ukr.net>>: Hi all, "A member must pay the full annual service fee for each LIR account(s) held before they can transfer resources or close their LIR account(s)" There is no word about accounts that have not been active for the full year. -- Andrey 16 липня 2018, 13:01:52, від "Freethought Hostmaster" <hostmaster@freethought-internet.co.uk<mailto:hostmaster@freethought-internet.co.uk>>: Hi Jens, Actually, the RIPE service fee for new members is charged on a pro-rata basis, so if you join part way through the year, then you only pay for part of the year. I seem to recall that this is done down quarterly granularity. See https://www.ripe.net/participate/member-support/payment/billing-procedure-an... for example. Edward Dore Freethought Internet From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net>> on behalf of Jens Ott <ripe@opteamax.de<mailto:ripe@opteamax.de>> Date: Monday, 16 July 2018 at 07:02 To: "members-discuss@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net>" <members-discuss@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net>> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE forces us to pay the bill unfairly Hi, Please read the charging scheme carefully, it only talks about an annual fee. The offer to pay it in 4 steps is just an offer but doesn't change anything about the amount. There is no monthly fee or daily fee... There are no definitions that entering over the year reduces the costs. Maybe we should just remove that offer to not pay everything at once, this would decrease discussions and time for processing a transfer. BR Jens _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/levrinets.andrey%40uk... _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/aleksbulgakov%40gmail... _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/bestseller.group%40uk...
If they have 5 LIRs, so that means RIPE NCC gave them this possibility. Instead of attacking the company Bignet, which according to the policy registered 5 lirs. (You have the right to register as many LIRs as you want) you'd rather have paid attention to the problem they described. RIPE asks to pay for 3 months for the service that was not provided. If the payment is annual, ok, lets be the payment for the period 04.2018-04.2019. Kind regards, Inna --- Оригінальне повідомлення --- Від кого: "Viethen, Christoph" <viethen@itc.rwth-aachen.de> Дата: 19 липня 2018, 10:49:20 I'm getting the impression we have quite a lot of experts on Dutch law around on this list. Fascinating! Kind regards, C. From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Сергій Черьомуш <bestseller.group@ukr.net> Sent: 17 July 2018 11:26:59 To: Aleksey Bulgakov Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE forces us to pay the bill unfairly "There isn't a secret that noncommercial organisation earns money and doesn't want to share it." Each organization has its own set of rules, but they can not contradict the law. I also do not understand how it is possible to bill for a service under the agreement "after the fact". Kind regards, Sergey Cheromush 17 липня 2018, 10:57:45, від "Aleksey Bulgakov" <aleksbulgakov@gmail.com>: Hi. There isn't a secret that noncommercial organisation earns money and doesn't want to share it. But it shows that it cares about members trying to keep IPv4 pool available for future business so long asit possible. But there is market where everyone can buy necessary IPv4 without request to mantioned organisation. вт, 17 Июл 2018 г., 9:05 Andrey Levrinets <levrinets.andrey@ukr.net>: Hi all, "A member must pay the full annual service fee for each LIR account(s) held before they can transfer resources or close their LIR account(s)" There is no word about accounts that have not been active for the full year. -- Andrey 16 липня 2018, 13:01:52, від "Freethought Hostmaster" <hostmaster@freethought-internet.co.uk>: Hi Jens, Actually, the RIPE service fee for new members is charged on a pro-rata basis, so if you join part way through the year, then you only pay for part of the year. I seem to recall that this is done down quarterly granularity. See https://www.ripe.net/participate/member-support/payment/billing-procedure-an... for example. Edward Dore Freethought Internet From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Jens Ott <ripe@opteamax.de> Date: Monday, 16 July 2018 at 07:02 To: "members-discuss@ripe.net" <members-discuss@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE forces us to pay the bill unfairly Hi, Please read the charging scheme carefully, it only talks about an annual fee. The offer to pay it in 4 steps is just an offer but doesn't change anything about the amount. There is no monthly fee or daily fee... There are no definitions that entering over the year reduces the costs. Maybe we should just remove that offer to not pay everything at once, this would decrease discussions and time for processing a transfer. BR Jens _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/levrinets.andrey%40uk... _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/aleksbulgakov%40gmail... _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/bestseller.group%40uk... _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/navis.group%40ukr.net
Guys, There is no problem. What’s so hard to read and understand the rules and policies. It has been written and described multiple times in this thread. And policies has been accepted signing the contract with RIPE NCC. In simple short words: * For opening a LIR in the middle of the year you have to pay the current and all following quarters for the current year. * If you want to close a LIR, you have to pay at least ONE FULL annual fee for this LIR, no matter if it’s the first year and you would only have to pay for quarters from the creation of the year. * Same applies to your wish to transfer resources. * Annual means once every year, not once in a timeframe including 12 months. * You DON’T pay for resources, you pay for services from RIPE NCC, both sides using policies and rules developed by the RIPE community. Having said this, I second the opinion to not expect too much sympathy on this topic. And IMHO you’ll achieve the opposite pushing this topic any further. kind regards, Christoph Neukirch From: members-discuss [mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net] On Behalf Of ???? ???????? Sent: Freitag, 20. Juli 2018 11:10 To: members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE forces us to pay the bill unfairly If they have 5 LIRs, so that means RIPE NCC gave them this possibility. Instead of attacking the company Bignet, which according to the policy registered 5 lirs. (You have the right to register as many LIRs as you want) you'd rather have paid attention to the problem they described. RIPE asks to pay for 3 months for the service that was not provided. If the payment is annual, ok, lets be the payment for the period 04.2018-04.2019. Kind regards, Inna --- Оригінальне повідомлення --- Від кого: "Viethen, Christoph" <viethen@itc.rwth-aachen.de<mailto:viethen@itc.rwth-aachen.de>> Дата: 19 липня 2018, 10:49:20 I'm getting the impression we have quite a lot of experts on Dutch law around on this list. Fascinating! Kind regards, C. ________________________________ From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net>> on behalf of Сергій Черьомуш <bestseller.group@ukr.net<mailto:bestseller.group@ukr.net>> Sent: 17 July 2018 11:26:59 To: Aleksey Bulgakov Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE forces us to pay the bill unfairly "There isn't a secret that noncommercial organisation earns money and doesn't want to share it." Each organization has its own set of rules, but they can not contradict the law. I also do not understand how it is possible to bill for a service under the agreement "after the fact". Kind regards, Sergey Cheromush 17 липня 2018, 10:57:45, від "Aleksey Bulgakov" <aleksbulgakov@gmail.com<mailto:aleksbulgakov@gmail.com>>: Hi. There isn't a secret that noncommercial organisation earns money and doesn't want to share it. But it shows that it cares about members trying to keep IPv4 pool available for future business so long asit possible. But there is market where everyone can buy necessary IPv4 without request to mantioned organisation. вт, 17 Июл 2018 г., 9:05 Andrey Levrinets <levrinets.andrey@ukr.net<mailto:levrinets.andrey@ukr.net>>: Hi all, "A member must pay the full annual service fee for each LIR account(s) held before they can transfer resources or close their LIR account(s)" There is no word about accounts that have not been active for the full year. -- Andrey 16 липня 2018, 13:01:52, від "Freethought Hostmaster" <hostmaster@freethought-internet.co.uk<mailto:hostmaster@freethought-internet.co.uk>>: Hi Jens, Actually, the RIPE service fee for new members is charged on a pro-rata basis, so if you join part way through the year, then you only pay for part of the year. I seem to recall that this is done down quarterly granularity. See https://www.ripe.net/participate/member-support/payment/billing-procedure-an... for example. Edward Dore Freethought Internet From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net>> on behalf of Jens Ott <ripe@opteamax.de<mailto:ripe@opteamax.de>> Date: Monday, 16 July 2018 at 07:02 To: "members-discuss@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net>" <members-discuss@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net>> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE forces us to pay the bill unfairly Hi, Please read the charging scheme carefully, it only talks about an annual fee. The offer to pay it in 4 steps is just an offer but doesn't change anything about the amount. There is no monthly fee or daily fee... There are no definitions that entering over the year reduces the costs. Maybe we should just remove that offer to not pay everything at once, this would decrease discussions and time for processing a transfer. BR Jens _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/levrinets.andrey%40uk... _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/aleksbulgakov%40gmail... _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/bestseller.group%40uk... _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/navis.group%40ukr.net
As I understand people who started that topic: 1. They have several LIRs for one company. 2. Last LIR was opened in 2nd quarter of this year, and payments are QUARTERLY. 3. They wish to transfer resource from ANOTHER LIR (NOT the last one was opened this year). 4. RIPE NCC issued the invoice for that ANOTHER LIR for 1st quarter, when that LIR did not exists. 5. To let the transfer from FIRST LIR, they have to paid for 1st quarter of the SECOND LIR, which was opened in 2nd quarter. So, it violates points 1 and 2(3) of what you said below (and common sense, of course). 20.07.18 16:32, Christoph Neukirch пише:
Guys,
There is no problem.
What’s so hard to read and understand the rules and policies. It has been written and described multiple times in this thread. And policies has been accepted signing the contract with RIPE NCC.
In simple short words:
* For opening a LIR in the middle of the year you have to pay the current and all following quarters for the current year. * If you want to close a LIR, you have to pay at least ONE FULL annual fee for this LIR, no matter if it’s the first year and you would only have to pay for quarters from the creation of the year. * Same applies to your wish to transfer resources. * Annual means once every year, not once in a timeframe including 12 months. * You DON’T pay for resources, you pay for services from RIPE NCC, both sides using policies and rules developed by the RIPE community.
Having said this, I second the opinion to not expect too much sympathy on this topic. And IMHO you’ll achieve the opposite pushing this topic any further.
Hello, First my email Mohamed@Bubtaina.com is the same as Mohamed.Bubtaina@Bubtaina.com but I send my emails on the run, I think nobody in here never suffered a breach or have had stolen a password or some of the kind in any way, to start with, nobody should talk for in the name of someone else and should be careful of the person submitting the email is actually him. And not someone using his email so to know who everyone is referring to. RIPE, Like IANA, Like ICANN has a set of rules and regulations which we had a general election and agreed on the agenda and on new agreements. Quarterly yearly each has his own personal circumstances which if can’t pay or want to make a different deal would do it directly with RIPE administration, if it needs voting from NCC members then shall it be when they see necessary. If your organisation is registered doesn’t mean it has an LIR I have my subsidiaries as maintainers for my own infrastructure which if it is a problem, I’ll be glad to remove but doesn’t change the fact that they have no resources except me which is the same as my company which is one and not 2 according to my contract that I signed for NCC .whatever the regulations commits to I follow sometimes you don’t notice due to many interferences.but I thought that’s what NCC members stand.s for we work as a network not individual! Why not talk about having each NCC member an HPC dedicated VPN server for us and our work? Wouldn’t that be a good idea! With the Atlas Probe and An Anchor which we could buy also, in collaboration with IANA and ICANN to maybe connect other RIR within we could cut lots of issues and problems and keep and eye on data network flow making sure our iOS aren’t being used for malpractice and fraud and crimes! I that could be the reason why some want to get rid of part of their Resources! They cant keep and eye for data privacy GDPR regulations policies law and other, on 1024 people device application network or someone using illegally their ips right! Well that’s coming from an MBA student with human resource information system and management background. Regards Bubtaina On Friday, 20 July 2018, Max Tulyev <maxtul@netassist.ua> wrote:
As I understand people who started that topic:
1. They have several LIRs for one company.
2. Last LIR was opened in 2nd quarter of this year, and payments are QUARTERLY.
3. They wish to transfer resource from ANOTHER LIR (NOT the last one was opened this year). 4. RIPE NCC issued the invoice for that ANOTHER LIR for 1st quarter, when that LIR did not exists.
5. To let the transfer from FIRST LIR, they have to paid for 1st quarter of the SECOND LIR, which was opened in 2nd quarter.
So, it violates points 1 and 2(3) of what you said below (and common sense, of course).
20.07.18 16:32, Christoph Neukirch пише:
Guys,
There is no problem.
What’s so hard to read and understand the rules and policies. It has been written and described multiple times in this thread. And policies has been accepted signing the contract with RIPE NCC.
In simple short words:
- For opening a LIR in the middle of the year you have to pay the current and all following quarters for the current year. - If you want to close a LIR, you have to pay at least ONE FULL annual fee for this LIR, no matter if it’s the first year and you would only have to pay for quarters from the creation of the year. - Same applies to your wish to transfer resources. - Annual means once every year, not once in a timeframe including 12 months. - You DON’T pay for resources, you pay for services from RIPE NCC, both sides using policies and rules developed by the RIPE community.
Having said this, I second the opinion to not expect too much sympathy on this topic. And IMHO you’ll achieve the opposite pushing this topic any further.
-- Best Regards, Mohamed Ali Bubteina [image: image1.png] Tel +44 (0) 20 7862 6331 Cell +44 (0) 747474 0934 - +961 (79) 1111 93 Fax +44 (0) 203 608 0612 Email: Manager@Bubteina.Group Email: *Mohamed@Bubtaina.com* Registered name: Bubtaina Group Limited Place of registration: England and Wales Registered number: 08762428 The information in this email is confidential and solely for the use of the intended recipient(s). If you receive this email in error, please notify the sender and delete the email from your system immediately. In such circumstances, you must not make any use of the email or its contents. Views expressed by an individual in this email do not necessarily reflect the views of Bubtaina Group Limited. The company and its Subsidiaries, complies with the EU-U.S Privacy Shield Framework and Swiss U.S Privacy Shield as set forth by the U.S Department of Commerce and with the Information Commissioner Office in the United Kingdom, regarding use, collection, and retention of any information held and maintained. Compliance framework with: [image: image2.jpeg] [image: image3.jpeg] [image: image4.png] Partners and subsidiaries: [image: image6.png] [image: image7.jpeg] [image: image9.png] [image: image10.png] [image: image11.png] [image: image12.png]
Are you kidding? The reason is only one. RIPE forces them to pay extra 350 euro for the 1st quartal 2018 by the agreement which was issued in the 2d quartal and don't relate to LIR and the subject of the transfer. Igor Slesarev 2018-07-20 13:32 GMT+00:00 Christoph Neukirch <Christoph.Neukirch@xing.com>:
Guys,
There is no problem.
What’s so hard to read and understand the rules and policies. It has been written and described multiple times in this thread. And policies has been accepted signing the contract with RIPE NCC.
In simple short words:
- For opening a LIR in the middle of the year you have to pay the current and all following quarters for the current year. - If you want to close a LIR, you have to pay at least ONE FULL annual fee for this LIR, no matter if it’s the first year and you would only have to pay for quarters from the creation of the year. - Same applies to your wish to transfer resources. - Annual means once every year, not once in a timeframe including 12 months. - You DON’T pay for resources, you pay for services from RIPE NCC, both sides using policies and rules developed by the RIPE community.
Having said this, I second the opinion to not expect too much sympathy on this topic. And IMHO you’ll achieve the opposite pushing this topic any further.
kind regards,
Christoph Neukirch
*From:* members-discuss [mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net] *On Behalf Of *???? ???????? *Sent:* Freitag, 20. Juli 2018 11:10 *To:* members-discuss@ripe.net
*Subject:* Re: [members-discuss] RIPE forces us to pay the bill unfairly
If they have 5 LIRs, so that means RIPE NCC gave them this possibility.
Instead of attacking the company Bignet, which according to the policy registered 5 lirs.
(You have the right to register as many LIRs as you want)
you'd rather have paid attention to the problem they described.
RIPE asks to pay for 3 months for the service that was not provided.
If the payment is annual, ok, lets be the payment for the period 04.2018-04.2019.
Kind regards, Inna
--- Оригінальне повідомлення --- Від кого: "Viethen, Christoph" <viethen@itc.rwth-aachen.de> Дата: 19 липня 2018, 10:49:20
I'm getting the impression we have quite a lot of experts on Dutch law around on this list. Fascinating!
Kind regards, C.
------------------------------
*From:* members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Сергій Черьомуш <bestseller.group@ukr.net> *Sent:* 17 July 2018 11:26:59 *To:* Aleksey Bulgakov *Cc:* members-discuss@ripe.net *Subject:* Re: [members-discuss] RIPE forces us to pay the bill unfairly
*"There isn't a secret that noncommercial organisation earns money and doesn't want to share it."*
Each organization has its own set of rules, but they can not contradict the law.
I also do not understand how it is possible to bill for a service under the agreement "after the fact".
Kind regards, Sergey Cheromush
*17 **липня** 2018, 10:57:45, **від** "Aleksey Bulgakov" <* *aleksbulgakov@gmail.com* <aleksbulgakov@gmail.com>*>:*
Hi.
There isn't a secret that noncommercial organisation earns money and doesn't want to share it. But it shows that it cares about members trying to keep IPv4 pool available for future business so long asit possible. But there is market where everyone can buy necessary IPv4 without request to mantioned organisation.
вт, 17 Июл 2018 г., 9:05 Andrey Levrinets <levrinets.andrey@ukr.net>:
Hi all,
"A member must pay the full annual service fee for each LIR account(s) held before they can transfer resources or close their LIR account(s)"
There is no word about accounts that have not been active for the full year.
--
Andrey
*16 **липня** 2018, 13:01:52, **від** "Freethought Hostmaster" <* *hostmaster@freethought-internet.co.uk* <hostmaster@freethought-internet.co.uk>*>:*
Hi Jens,
Actually, the RIPE service fee for new members is charged on a pro-rata basis, so if you join part way through the year, then you only pay for part of the year. I seem to recall that this is done down quarterly granularity.
See https://www.ripe.net/participate/member-support/ payment/billing-procedure-and-fee-schedule-2018#fees-for-new-members for example.
Edward Dore
Freethought Internet
*From: *members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Jens Ott <ripe@opteamax.de> *Date: *Monday, 16 July 2018 at 07:02 *To: *"members-discuss@ripe.net" <members-discuss@ripe.net> *Subject: *Re: [members-discuss] RIPE forces us to pay the bill unfairly
Hi,
Please read the charging scheme carefully, it only talks about an annual fee. The offer to pay it in 4 steps is just an offer but doesn't change anything about the amount. There is no monthly fee or daily fee... There are no definitions that entering over the year reduces the costs.
Maybe we should just remove that offer to not pay everything at once, this would decrease discussions and time for processing a transfer.
BR Jens
_______________________________________________
members-discuss mailing list
members-discuss@ripe.net
https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss
Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/levrinets.andrey%40uk...
_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members- discuss/aleksbulgakov%40gmail.com
_______________________________________________
members-discuss mailing list
members-discuss@ripe.net
https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss
Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/bestseller.group%40uk...
_______________________________________________
members-discuss mailing list
members-discuss@ripe.net
https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss
Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/navis.group%40ukr.net
_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members- discuss/hostmaster.igor%40gmail.com
Hi, From the OP: We are transferring our network to other company. The transfer is approved. As policy prescribed, you have to pay the annual fee. For today these are the third quartal and the forth. But RIPE forces us to pay the bill for the first quartal, however our LIR was opened later in the second one. ( in APRIL 2018). This matches to at least point 2, maybe to point one. Furthermore, we have 5 more LIRs on one company. Is it fare to be forced to pay all annual invoices on all Lirs, before the transfer one part of the network from 1 LIR? Again “A member must pay the full annual service fee for each LIR account(s) held before they can transfer resources or close their LIR account(s). Only when the full annual service fee for every LIR account has been paid can the transfer or closure take place. If a member chooses to close one or more of the LIR accounts they hold in the course of the RIPE NCC financial year, the service fees for the relevant LIR accounts must still be paid in full. If the service fee has already been paid in full, no pro rata refunds will apply.” If you don’t like it, create a draft in the PDP and ask the community to adopt. If the community doesn’t adopt, you’re free to disagree and commit, but you have to stick to the rules. Absolutely no matter for such a discussion outside of the PDP, which is nothing more, than annoying. kind regards Christoph Neukirch From: Igor Slesarev [mailto:hostmaster.igor@gmail.com] Sent: Montag, 23. Juli 2018 10:03 To: Christoph Neukirch <Christoph.Neukirch@xing.com> Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE forces us to pay the bill unfairly Are you kidding? The reason is only one. RIPE forces them to pay extra 350 euro for the 1st quartal 2018 by the agreement which was issued in the 2d quartal and don't relate to LIR and the subject of the transfer. Igor Slesarev 2018-07-20 13:32 GMT+00:00 Christoph Neukirch <Christoph.Neukirch@xing.com<mailto:Christoph.Neukirch@xing.com>>: Guys, There is no problem. What’s so hard to read and understand the rules and policies. It has been written and described multiple times in this thread. And policies has been accepted signing the contract with RIPE NCC. In simple short words: * For opening a LIR in the middle of the year you have to pay the current and all following quarters for the current year. * If you want to close a LIR, you have to pay at least ONE FULL annual fee for this LIR, no matter if it’s the first year and you would only have to pay for quarters from the creation of the year. * Same applies to your wish to transfer resources. * Annual means once every year, not once in a timeframe including 12 months. * You DON’T pay for resources, you pay for services from RIPE NCC, both sides using policies and rules developed by the RIPE community. Having said this, I second the opinion to not expect too much sympathy on this topic. And IMHO you’ll achieve the opposite pushing this topic any further. kind regards, Christoph Neukirch From: members-discuss [mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net>] On Behalf Of ???? ???????? Sent: Freitag, 20. Juli 2018 11:10 To: members-discuss@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE forces us to pay the bill unfairly If they have 5 LIRs, so that means RIPE NCC gave them this possibility. Instead of attacking the company Bignet, which according to the policy registered 5 lirs. (You have the right to register as many LIRs as you want) you'd rather have paid attention to the problem they described. RIPE asks to pay for 3 months for the service that was not provided. If the payment is annual, ok, lets be the payment for the period 04.2018-04.2019. Kind regards, Inna --- Оригінальне повідомлення --- Від кого: "Viethen, Christoph" <viethen@itc.rwth-aachen.de<mailto:viethen@itc.rwth-aachen.de>> Дата: 19 липня 2018, 10:49:20 I'm getting the impression we have quite a lot of experts on Dutch law around on this list. Fascinating! Kind regards, C. ________________________________ From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net>> on behalf of Сергій Черьомуш <bestseller.group@ukr.net<mailto:bestseller.group@ukr.net>> Sent: 17 July 2018 11:26:59 To: Aleksey Bulgakov Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE forces us to pay the bill unfairly "There isn't a secret that noncommercial organisation earns money and doesn't want to share it." Each organization has its own set of rules, but they can not contradict the law. I also do not understand how it is possible to bill for a service under the agreement "after the fact". Kind regards, Sergey Cheromush 17 липня 2018, 10:57:45, від "Aleksey Bulgakov" <aleksbulgakov@gmail.com<mailto:aleksbulgakov@gmail.com>>: Hi. There isn't a secret that noncommercial organisation earns money and doesn't want to share it. But it shows that it cares about members trying to keep IPv4 pool available for future business so long asit possible. But there is market where everyone can buy necessary IPv4 without request to mantioned organisation. вт, 17 Июл 2018 г., 9:05 Andrey Levrinets <levrinets.andrey@ukr.net<mailto:levrinets.andrey@ukr.net>>: Hi all, "A member must pay the full annual service fee for each LIR account(s) held before they can transfer resources or close their LIR account(s)" There is no word about accounts that have not been active for the full year. -- Andrey 16 липня 2018, 13:01:52, від "Freethought Hostmaster" <hostmaster@freethought-internet.co.uk<mailto:hostmaster@freethought-internet.co.uk>>: Hi Jens, Actually, the RIPE service fee for new members is charged on a pro-rata basis, so if you join part way through the year, then you only pay for part of the year. I seem to recall that this is done down quarterly granularity. See https://www.ripe.net/participate/member-support/payment/billing-procedure-an... for example. Edward Dore Freethought Internet From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net>> on behalf of Jens Ott <ripe@opteamax.de<mailto:ripe@opteamax.de>> Date: Monday, 16 July 2018 at 07:02 To: "members-discuss@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net>" <members-discuss@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net>> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE forces us to pay the bill unfairly Hi, Please read the charging scheme carefully, it only talks about an annual fee. The offer to pay it in 4 steps is just an offer but doesn't change anything about the amount. There is no monthly fee or daily fee... There are no definitions that entering over the year reduces the costs. Maybe we should just remove that offer to not pay everything at once, this would decrease discussions and time for processing a transfer. BR Jens _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/levrinets.andrey%40uk... _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/aleksbulgakov%40gmail... _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/bestseller.group%40uk... _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/navis.group%40ukr.net _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/hostmaster.igor%40gma...
Inna, People are (rightly) upset that they are attempting to sell resources from the last /8. Which, while technically allowed, is incredibly abhorrent behaviour. To pour salt in the wound, this "bad actor" then has the hubris to complain about being required to pay for the whole year (which is well documented in the transfer procedure). The community has been very clear that we consider this to be abuse of the policy and that is what people are attacking. So I would think twice about defending Bignet's actions. Regards, Tim. On Fri, Jul 20, 2018 at 11:09 AM, Инна Арабаджи <navis.group@ukr.net> wrote:
If they have 5 LIRs, so that means RIPE NCC gave them this possibility. Instead of attacking the company Bignet, which according to the policy registered 5 lirs. (You have the right to register as many LIRs as you want) you'd rather have paid attention to the problem they described.
RIPE asks to pay for 3 months for the service that was not provided. If the payment is annual, ok, lets be the payment for the period 04.2018-04.2019.
Kind regards, Inna
--- Оригінальне повідомлення --- Від кого: "Viethen, Christoph" <viethen@itc.rwth-aachen.de> Дата: 19 липня 2018, 10:49:20
I'm getting the impression we have quite a lot of experts on Dutch law around on this list. Fascinating!
Kind regards, C.
------------------------------ *From:* members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Сергій Черьомуш <bestseller.group@ukr.net> *Sent:* 17 July 2018 11:26:59 *To:* Aleksey Bulgakov *Cc:* members-discuss@ripe.net *Subject:* Re: [members-discuss] RIPE forces us to pay the bill unfairly
*"There isn't a secret that noncommercial organisation earns money and doesn't want to share it."* Each organization has its own set of rules, but they can not contradict the law. I also do not understand how it is possible to bill for a service under the agreement "after the fact".
Kind regards, Sergey Cheromush
*17 липня 2018, 10:57:45, від "Aleksey Bulgakov" <aleksbulgakov@gmail.com <aleksbulgakov@gmail.com>>:*
Hi.
There isn't a secret that noncommercial organisation earns money and doesn't want to share it. But it shows that it cares about members trying to keep IPv4 pool available for future business so long asit possible. But there is market where everyone can buy necessary IPv4 without request to mantioned organisation.
вт, 17 Июл 2018 г., 9:05 Andrey Levrinets <levrinets.andrey@ukr.net>:
Hi all, "A member must pay the full annual service fee for each LIR account(s) held before they can transfer resources or close their LIR account(s)" There is no word about accounts that have not been active for the full year.
-- Andrey
*16 липня 2018, 13:01:52, від "Freethought Hostmaster" <hostmaster@freethought-internet.co.uk <hostmaster@freethought-internet.co.uk>>:*
Hi Jens,
Actually, the RIPE service fee for new members is charged on a pro-rata basis, so if you join part way through the year, then you only pay for part of the year. I seem to recall that this is done down quarterly granularity.
See https://www.ripe.net/participate/member-support/ payment/billing-procedure-and-fee-schedule-2018#fees-for-new-members for example.
Edward Dore Freethought Internet
*From: *members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Jens Ott <ripe@opteamax.de> *Date: *Monday, 16 July 2018 at 07:02 *To: *"members-discuss@ripe.net" <members-discuss@ripe.net> *Subject: *Re: [members-discuss] RIPE forces us to pay the bill unfairly
Hi,
Please read the charging scheme carefully, it only talks about an annual fee. The offer to pay it in 4 steps is just an offer but doesn't change anything about the amount. There is no monthly fee or daily fee... There are no definitions that entering over the year reduces the costs.
Maybe we should just remove that offer to not pay everything at once, this would decrease discussions and time for processing a transfer.
BR Jens
_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing listmembers-discuss@ripe.nethttps://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/levrinets.andrey%40uk...
_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members- discuss/aleksbulgakov%40gmail.com
_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing listmembers-discuss@ripe.nethttps://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/bestseller.group%40uk...
_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing listmembers-discuss@ripe.nethttps://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss
Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/navis.group%40ukr.net
_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members- discuss/t.armstrong%40nerdalize.com
-- *Tim Armstrong*Dark Lord of Network Operations +31 6 175 444 72 <+31617544472>
Hello,Our LIR was opened in the 4th part of the year. No one asked me to pay for the 1-3 parts. What do "annual fee" really mean? These are payments to close the year. Not to pay for the whole year. --- Оригінальне повідомлення --- Від кого: "Jens Ott" <ripe@opteamax.de> Дата: 16 липня 2018, 09:02:21 Hi, Please read the charging scheme carefully, it only talks about an annual fee. The offer to pay it in 4 steps is just an offer but doesn't change anything about the amount. There is no monthly fee or daily fee... There are no definitions that entering over the year reduces the costs. Maybe we should just remove that offer to not pay everything at once, this would decrease discussions and time for processing a transfer. BR Jens Am 13. Juli 2018 16:41:27 MESZ schrieb Max Tulyev <maxtul@netassist.ua>:
What does it mean "consider 1st quarter 2019" when the invoice is for 1st quarter 2018??? In 2019 will be another invoice for 1st quarter 2019!
It is not only unfair, but for me even unlawful to ask for the payment for the quarter BEFORE the agreement was signed!
Was it really 1st quarter of 2018, not 1st quarter of 2019 (this case it will be payment for one year really)?
On Mon, Jul 09, 2018 at 09:03:15PM +0300, olena.dmytrenko@bignet.ua wrote:
Dear all, Our LIR has signed agreement in April of the 2018 year. How can we pay the invoice on the service which wasn't given to us. How can you pay for the service which was earlier than the agreement? When you order resources, you get a one-year fee for their usage. You may pay two halfs or four quarters, but if you transfer them - you must
10.07.18 09:07, ripe@voks.ua пише: pay a fee for the whole year.
Consider that fee not as 1st quarter 2018, but as 1st quarter 2019
Stop cheating and just pay the bill.
_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/ripe%40opteamax.de
!DSPAM:1229,5b4c27d179821936468041!
-- Jens Ott Geschäftsführer Opteamax GmbH Simrockstr. 4b 53619 Rheinbreitbach Tel.: +49 2224 969500 Fax: +49 2224 97691059 Email: jo@opteamax.de HRB: 23144, Amtsgericht Montabaur Geschäftsführer: Jens Ott Umsatzsteuer-ID.: DE264133989 _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/ivashchenko.levelserv...
Hi,
Our LIR was opened in the 4th part of the year. No one asked me to pay for the 1-3 parts. What do "annual fee" really mean?
These are payments to close the year. Not to pay for the whole year.
Correct. However, there is the "Billing Procedure and Fee Schedule 2018" section "Fees for transferring resources":
A member must pay the full annual service fee for each LIR account(s) held before they can transfer resources or close their LIR account(s). Only when the full annual service fee for every LIR account has been paid can the transfer or closure take place. If a member chooses to close one or more of the LIR accounts they hold in the course of the RIPE NCC financial year, the service fees for the relevant LIR accounts must still be paid in full. If the service fee has already been paid in full, no pro rata refunds will apply.
So if you sign up in the 4th quarter of the year, you cannot close the LIR before a full annual service fee (= 1 year) has been paid. IIRC this rule was introduced specifically to prevent people from opening a new LIR in i.e. Q4 and then immediately transferring the resources and closing it again. You cannot close an LIR with less than one whole year paid. Cheers, Sander
Sander, 1)"So if you sign up in the 4th quarter of the year, you cannot close the LIR before a full annual service fee"" - we don't want to close LIR. 2) WE do not transfer ANYTHING from the NEW LIR. We transfer IPv6 block from the LIR, which is more than 3 year old. Olena From: Sander Steffann <sander@steffann.nl> To: Stanislav Ivashchenko <ivashchenko.levelservice@ukr.net> Cc: <members-discuss@ripe.net> Sent: 7/16/2018 4:33 PM Subject: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE forces us to pay the bill unfairly Hi,
Our LIR was opened in the 4th part of the year. No one asked me to pay for the 1-3 parts. What do "annual fee" really mean?
These are payments to close the year. Not to pay for the whole year.
Correct. However, there is the "Billing Procedure and Fee Schedule 2018" section "Fees for transferring resources":
A member must pay the full annual service fee for each LIR account(s) held before they can transfer resources or close their LIR account(s). Only when the full annual service fee for every LIR account has been paid can the transfer or closure take place. If a member chooses to close one or more of the LIR accounts they hold in the course of the RIPE NCC financial year, the service fees for the relevant LIR accounts must still be paid in full. If the service fee has already been paid in full, no pro rata refunds will apply.
So if you sign up in the 4th quarter of the year, you cannot close the LIR before a full annual service fee (= 1 year) has been paid. IIRC this rule was introduced specifically to prevent people from opening a new LIR in i.e. Q4 and then immediately transferring the resources and closing it again. You cannot close an LIR with less than one whole year paid. Cheers, Sander _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/olena.dmytrenko%40big...
Hi,
1)"So if you sign up in the 4th quarter of the year, you cannot close the LIR before a full annual service fee"" - we don't want to close LIR. 2) WE do not transfer ANYTHING from the NEW LIR. We transfer IPv6 block from the LIR, which is more than 3 year old.
That should indeed not be a problem. I wonder what the reasoning is behind the decision. Cheers, Sander
Hi Sander,
-----Original Message----- From: members-discuss [mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net] On Behalf Of Sander Steffann
Hi,
1)"So if you sign up in the 4th quarter of the year, you cannot close the LIR before a full annual service fee"" - we don't want to close LIR. 2) WE do not transfer ANYTHING from the NEW LIR. We transfer IPv6 block from the LIR, which is more than 3 year old.
That should indeed not be a problem. I wonder what the reasoning is behind the decision.
It's just this part from the policy: "A member must pay the full annual service fee for each LIR account(s) held before they can transfer resources or close their LIR account(s)." ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Maybe it would make sense to change this to "each LIR involved in the transfer/closure", but right now it's just using the policy adopted by the community. kind regards Christoph Neukirch
Hi,
That should indeed not be a problem. I wonder what the reasoning is behind the decision.
It's just this part from the policy:
"A member must pay the full annual service fee for each LIR account(s) held before they can transfer resources or close their LIR account(s)."
Maybe it would make sense to change this to "each LIR involved in the transfer/closure", but right now it's just using the policy adopted by the community.
Well spotted, thanks! Sander
Guys, they are talking not about "each LIR involved in the transfer/closure", they are talking about extra period of the payment for the LIR. (Q1)
Вторник, 24 июля 2018, 7:24 UTC от Sander Steffann <sander@steffann.nl>:
Hi,
That should indeed not be a problem. I wonder what the reasoning is behind the decision.
It's just this part from the policy:
"A member must pay the full annual service fee for each LIR account(s) held before they can transfer resources or close their LIR account(s)."
Maybe it would make sense to change this to "each LIR involved in the transfer/closure", but right now it's just using the policy adopted by the community.
Well spotted, thanks! Sander
_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/praid.sirmays%40mail....
С уважением, Alexey Sirmays praid.sirmays@mail.ru
On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 01:23:52PM +0300, Alexey Sirmays wrote:
Guys, they are talking not about "each LIR involved in the transfer/closure", they are talking about extra period of the payment for the LIR. (Q1)
That was the "full annual service fee" part that you missed :)
Вторник, 24 июля 2018, 7:24 UTC от Sander Steffann <sander@steffann.nl>:
Hi,
That should indeed not be a problem. I wonder what the reasoning is behind the decision.
It's just this part from the policy:
"A member must pay the full annual service fee for each LIR account(s) held before they can transfer resources or close their LIR account(s)."
Maybe it would make sense to change this to "each LIR involved in the transfer/closure", but right now it's just using the policy adopted by the community.
Well spotted, thanks! Sander
On Jul 24, 2018, at 13:45, Denis Fondras <ripe@liopen.fr> wrote:
On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 01:23:52PM +0300, Alexey Sirmays wrote: Guys, they are talking not about "each LIR involved in the transfer/closure", they are talking about extra period of the payment for the LIR. (Q1)
That was the "full annual service fee" part that you missed :)
Please explain the meaning of word annual here. Let’s say I open LIR account April 4th, 2018. Which period annual fee covers, a year starting 2018.04.04 or 2018 calendar year? The meaning of word “annual” is “occurring once per year.” So in my example the fee (annual) would be until 2019.04.04 (exclusive). So, in case of quarterly invoice it would cover 2019.Q1, not 2018.Q1, right? To other people commenting about how bad it is to open additional LIRs to usurp scarce IPv4 addresses: The company wanted to transfer IPv6 block. They also had no intention to close the LIR. Perhaps the fair policy would be to only affect the LIR the transfers or closures refer to, not all LIRs held by entity. Also, perhaps it would be better to allow transfer and not closure, so a resource-less LIR account would be required to be kept and paid for if the owner chooses to transfer its resources immediately after opening. Those must be policy changes then. Anybody feels like it is a good idea?
Вторник, 24 июля 2018, 7:24 UTC от Sander Steffann <sander@steffann.nl>:
Hi,
That should indeed not be a problem. I wonder what the reasoning is behind the decision.
It's just this part from the policy:
"A member must pay the full annual service fee for each LIR account(s) held before they can transfer resources or close their LIR account(s)."
Maybe it would make sense to change this to "each LIR involved in the transfer/closure", but right now it's just using the policy adopted by the community.
Well spotted, thanks! Sander
We should know whether that phrasing predates GM voting decision which “legalized” multiple LIR accounts.
Dear all, this is the first and last email from me in this thread. Everything of value has been said, everything unclear has been explained ad nauseam. Policy has been executed by RIPE NCC as defined by the RIPE community. If anyone wants to change policy please read https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-642 and take it to the appropriate WG. Please refrain from replying and simply let this thread die, thanks, Richard
This is really a question for the NCC, not the members-discuss mailing list. The policy was drafted, presented, voted on and accepted a while ago now. It is now up to the NCC to enforce it, and based on my understanding of it they seem to be doing that quite well and to the letter. So here is a suggestion for all those who are confused as the the NCC's actions: - Read the policy, - Ask the NCC about their interpretation, - Then if you actually disagree with the policy, and want to change it come back to the members-discuss (or appropriate WG) with a proposal. Now can we please stop this time wasting thread, because it really does appear to be going around in never ending loops because people simply haven't read the policy. My apologies if this is a bit rude or blunt, Tim. On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 1:45 PM, Dmitry Kohmanyuk <dk@hostmaster.ua> wrote:
On Jul 24, 2018, at 13:45, Denis Fondras <ripe@liopen.fr> wrote:
On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 01:23:52PM +0300, Alexey Sirmays wrote: Guys, they are talking not about "each LIR involved in the
transfer/closure", they are talking about extra period of the payment for the LIR. (Q1)
That was the "full annual service fee" part that you missed :)
Please explain the meaning of word annual here. Let’s say I open LIR account April 4th, 2018. Which period annual fee covers, a year starting 2018.04.04 or 2018 calendar year?
The meaning of word “annual” is “occurring once per year.” So in my example the fee (annual) would be until 2019.04.04 (exclusive). So, in case of quarterly invoice it would cover 2019.Q1, not 2018.Q1, right?
To other people commenting about how bad it is to open additional LIRs to usurp scarce IPv4 addresses:
The company wanted to transfer IPv6 block. They also had no intention to close the LIR.
Perhaps the fair policy would be to only affect the LIR the transfers or closures refer to, not all LIRs held by entity. Also, perhaps it would be better to allow transfer and not closure, so a resource-less LIR account would be required to be kept and paid for if the owner chooses to transfer its resources immediately after opening.
Those must be policy changes then. Anybody feels like it is a good idea?
Вторник, 24 июля 2018, 7:24 UTC от Sander Steffann <sander@steffann.nl :
Hi,
That should indeed not be a problem. I wonder what the reasoning is
the decision.
It's just this part from the policy:
"A member must pay the full annual service fee for each LIR account(s) held before they can transfer resources or close their LIR account(s)."
Maybe it would make sense to change this to "each LIR involved in the
behind transfer/closure", but right now it's just using the policy adopted by the community.
Well spotted, thanks! Sander
We should know whether that phrasing predates GM voting decision which “legalized” multiple LIR accounts.
_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members- discuss/t.armstrong%40nerdalize.com
-- *Tim Armstrong*Dark Lord of Network Operations +31 6 175 444 72 <+31617544472>
Thank you Tim! Regards,Christian Lutzner Von meinem Samsung Galaxy Smartphone gesendet. -------- Ursprüngliche Nachricht --------Von: Tim Armstrong <t.armstrong@nerdalize.com> Datum: 24.07.18 15:33 (GMT+03:00) An: Dmitry Kohmanyuk <dk@hostmaster.ua> Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net Betreff: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE forces us to pay the bill unfairly This is really a question for the NCC, not the members-discuss mailing list. The policy was drafted, presented, voted on and accepted a while ago now. It is now up to the NCC to enforce it, and based on my understanding of it they seem to be doing that quite well and to the letter.So here is a suggestion for all those who are confused as the the NCC's actions:Read the policy,Ask the NCC about their interpretation,Then if you actually disagree with the policy, and want to change it come back to the members-discuss (or appropriate WG) with a proposal. Now can we please stop this time wasting thread, because it really does appear to be going around in never ending loops because people simply haven't read the policy. My apologies if this is a bit rude or blunt, Tim. On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 1:45 PM, Dmitry Kohmanyuk <dk@hostmaster.ua> wrote: On Jul 24, 2018, at 13:45, Denis Fondras <ripe@liopen.fr> wrote:
On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 01:23:52PM +0300, Alexey Sirmays wrote:
Guys, they are talking not about "each LIR involved in the transfer/closure", they are talking about extra period of the payment for the LIR. (Q1)
That was the "full annual service fee" part that you missed :)
Please explain the meaning of word annual here. Let’s say I open LIR account April 4th, 2018. Which period annual fee covers, a year starting 2018.04.04 or 2018 calendar year? The meaning of word “annual” is “occurring once per year.” So in my example the fee (annual) would be until 2019.04.04 (exclusive). So, in case of quarterly invoice it would cover 2019.Q1, not 2018.Q1, right? To other people commenting about how bad it is to open additional LIRs to usurp scarce IPv4 addresses: The company wanted to transfer IPv6 block. They also had no intention to close the LIR. Perhaps the fair policy would be to only affect the LIR the transfers or closures refer to, not all LIRs held by entity. Also, perhaps it would be better to allow transfer and not closure, so a resource-less LIR account would be required to be kept and paid for if the owner chooses to transfer its resources immediately after opening. Those must be policy changes then. Anybody feels like it is a good idea?
Вторник, 24 июля 2018, 7:24 UTC от Sander Steffann <sander@steffann.nl>:
Hi,
That should indeed not be a problem. I wonder what the reasoning is behind
the decision.
It's just this part from the policy:
"A member must pay the full annual service fee for each LIR account(s) held before they can transfer resources or close their LIR account(s)."
Maybe it would make sense to change this to "each LIR involved in the transfer/closure", but right now it's just using the policy adopted by the community.
Well spotted, thanks!
Sander
We should know whether that phrasing predates GM voting decision which “legalized” multiple LIR accounts. _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/t.armstrong%40nerdali... -- Tim Armstrong Dark Lord of Network Operations +31 6 175 444 72
RIPE NCC has annual fees, both for joining and for continuing membership. In the first calendar year you owed both. You became a member in year 2018, so you owe for year 2018. The fact that fee is divided into quarters is just to make it easier to pay, although frankly I don’t see the point; you have to do four bank transfers and all you save is 1/2 of the year on average; so time value of money must be really high for it to work. If the member fee would be pro-rated (reduced for the months you were not a member) then somebody would open an account in November and transfer resources in December, for 1/4 of the yearly cost paid. And this is precisely what the rule is for.
On Jul 9, 2018, at 21:03, olena.dmytrenko@bignet.ua wrote:
Dear all, Our LIR has signed agreement in April of the 2018 year. How can we pay the invoice on the service which wasn't given to us. How can you pay for the service which was earlier than the agreement?
-- Olena Dmytrenko
From: Adi Vaizovic <adi.vaizovic@telinea.com> To: Mohamed Bubtaina <mohamed@bubtaina.com>, "olena.dmytrenko@bignet.ua" <olena.dmytrenko@bignet.ua> Cc: "members-discuss@ripe.net" <members-discuss@ripe.net> Sent: 7/9/2018 2:51 PM Subject: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE forces us to pay the bill unfairly
Ripe, has fair and clear procedures.
Read before say something.
Regards,
Adi From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Mohamed Bubtaina <mohamed@bubtaina.com> Sent: Monday, July 9, 2018 3:46:07 PM To: olena.dmytrenko@bignet.ua Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE forces us to pay the bill unfairly
Hello,
It’s fair, as you see it’s divided into 2 parts, the membership, and for the yearly LIR payments which are divided into quartets. So you don’t pay for what you haven’t used, or if you decide to leave. I for example pay the LIR bill yearly. It’s less hassle and remembering the payments due, and if you forget or get busy and don’t notice like it always happens with me as I’m holding the bag alone and walking, (somethings you just can’t trust anyone with, your wife, yourself, your money, and ip’s!) I want to even ask for resources and I just keep missing that button! So fair? Yeah, in my opinion, it’s easier the whole year (-what you didn’t‘ think use of the time for newcomers)
But that’s my opinion, I’m still searching for the wife, finding where my money i, but at least I know me, fully trust me! And never doubt it no matter. As my ip’s.... well they keep wandering around but get hold of them so at least I know they aren’t used for any illegal or malicious purpose in anyway by anyone, hard, but not MI!
Best Regards,
Mohamed Ali Bubteina
<image1.png>
Tel +44 (0) 20 7862 6331 Cell +44 (0) 747474 0934 - +961 (79) 1111 93 Fax +44 (0) 203 608 0612 Email: Manager@Bubteina.Group
Registered name: Bubtaina Group Limited Place of registration: England and Wales Registered number: 08762428
The information in this email is confidential and solely for the use of the intended recipient(s). If you receive this email in error, please notify the sender and delete the email from your system immediately. In such circumstances, you must not make any use of the email or its contents.
Views expressed by an individual in this email do not necessarily reflect the views of Bubtaina Group Limited. The company and its Subsidiaries, complies with the EU-U.S Privacy Shield Framework and Swiss U.S Privacy Shield as set forth by the U.S Department of Commerce and with the Information Commissioner Office in the United Kingdom, regarding use, collection, and retention of any information held and maintained.
On 6 Jul 2018, at 17:53, olena.dmytrenko@bignet.ua wrote:
Hello everybody! We got a problem! We want to share it with you to find out your opinion on this matter. We are transferring our network to other company. The transfer is approved. As policy prescribed, you have to pay the annual fee. For today these are the third quartal and the forth. But RIPE forces us to pay the bill for the first quartal, however our LIR was opened later in the second one. ( in APRIL 2018). We would like to see and discuss the rules, where it is prescribed what to pay in such cases. Where we can read the regulation that you need to pay an annual fee for the quarters in which Lir did not even exist.
Furthermore, we have 5 more LIRs on one company. Is it fare to be forced to pay all annual invoices on all Lirs, before the transfer one part of the network from 1 LIR?
-- Olena Dmytrenko <Screenshot_1.png> _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/mohamed%40bubtaina.co...
members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/adi.vaizovic%40teline... _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/dk%40hostmaster.ua
Dear Olena, stop looking for sympathy here, you get none. As you have written, you have 5 LIRs. It means that you probably have five times more IPv4 space that you deserved. As you might know, these addresses are reserved for late comers so they get at least some portion of the IPv4 space. Every thing else is just a tolerated abuse. Only unfair thing about this whole thing is that it is still tolerated (in the name of accurate database). So it is only fair that you had to pay for such "abuse" of (post-) last /8 space. These rules are there precisely because of that. None of us late comers has got enough IPv4 space, but at least some of us are trying to play by the book. So please stop lamenting that you had to pay if you don't. Sincerely, Martin Hunek Dne pondělí 9. července 2018 20:03:15 CEST, olena.dmytrenko@bignet.ua napsal(a):
Dear all, Our LIR has signed agreement in April of the 2018 year. How can we pay the invoice on the service which wasn't given to us. How can you pay for the service which was earlier than the agreement?
-- Olena Dmytrenko
From: Adi Vaizovic <adi.vaizovic@telinea.com> To: Mohamed Bubtaina <mohamed@bubtaina.com>, "olena.dmytrenko@bignet.ua" <olena.dmytrenko@bignet.ua> Cc: "members-discuss@ripe.net" <members-discuss@ripe.net> Sent: 7/9/2018 2:51 PM Subject: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE forces us to pay the bill unfairly
Ripe, has fair and clear procedures.
Read before say something.
Regards,
Adi ----------------
From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Mohamed Bubtaina <mohamed@bubtaina.com> Sent: Monday, July 9, 2018 3:46:07 PM To: olena.dmytrenko@bignet.ua Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE forces us to pay the bill unfairly
Hello,
It’s fair, as you see it’s divided into 2 parts, the membership, and for the yearly LIR payments which are divided into quartets. So you don’t pay for what you haven’t used, or if you decide to leave. I for example pay the LIR bill yearly. It’s less hassle and remembering the payments due, and if you forget or get busy and don’t notice like it always happens with me as I’m holding the bag alone and walking, (somethings you just can’t trust anyone with, your wife, yourself, your money, and ip’s!) I want to even ask for resources and I just keep missing that button! So fair? Yeah, in my opinion, it’s easier the whole year (-what you didn’t‘ think use of the time for newcomers)
But that’s my opinion, I’m still searching for the wife, finding where my money i, but at least I know me, fully trust me! And never doubt it no matter. As my ip’s.... well they keep wandering around but get hold of them so at least I know they aren’t used for any illegal or malicious purpose in anyway by anyone, hard, but not MI!
Best Regards,
Mohamed Ali Bubteina
Tel +44 (0) 20 7862 6331 Cell +44 (0) 747474 0934 - +961 (79) 1111 93 Fax +44 (0) 203 608 0612 Email: Manager@Bubteina.Group
Registered name: Bubtaina Group Limited Place of registration: England and Wales Registered number: 08762428
The information in this email is confidential and solely for the use of the intended recipient(s). If you receive this email in error, please notify the sender and delete the email from your system immediately. In such circumstances, you must not make any use of the email or its contents.
Views expressed by an individual in this email do not necessarily reflect the views of Bubtaina Group Limited. The company and its Subsidiaries, complies with the EU-U.S Privacy Shield Framework and Swiss U.S Privacy Shield as set forth by the U.S Department of Commerce and with the Information Commissioner Office in the United Kingdom, regarding use, collection, and retention of any information held and maintained.
On 6 Jul 2018, at 17:53, olena.dmytrenko@bignet.ua wrote:
Hello everybody! We got a problem! We want to share it with you to find out your opinion on this matter. We are transferring our network to other company. The transfer is approved. As policy prescribed, you have to pay the annual fee. For today these are the third quartal and the forth. But RIPE forces us to pay the bill for the first quartal, however our LIR was opened later in the second one. ( in APRIL 2018). We would like to see and discuss the rules, where it is prescribed what to pay in such cases. Where we can read the regulation that you need to pay an annual fee for the quarters in which Lir did not even exist.
Furthermore, we have 5 more LIRs on one company. Is it fare to be forced to pay all annual invoices on all Lirs, before the transfer one part of the network from 1 LIR?
-- Olena Dmytrenko <Screenshot_1.png> _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/mohamed%40bubtaina.co...
_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/adi.vaizovic%40teline...
participants (30)
-
Adi Vaizovic -
Aleksey Bulgakov -
Alexandr Buzaev -
Alexey Sirmays -
Andrey Levrinets -
Bledi Vako -
Christoph Neukirch -
Denis Fondras -
Dmitry Kohmanyuk -
Freethought Hostmaster -
Igor Slesarev -
Jack Sephton -
Jens Ott -
Lu Heng -
Martin Huněk -
Max Tulyev -
Maxim Shpakov -
Mohamed Bubtaina -
Mustafa Öztoygar -
olena.dmytrenko＠bignet.ua -
Richard Hartmann -
ripe＠voks.ua -
Sander Steffann -
Sebastian Wiesinger -
Stanislav Ivashchenko -
support -
Tim Armstrong -
Viethen, Christoph -
Инна Арабаджи -
Сергій Черьомуш