RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025 Open House: Recording and Slides Available
Dear all, This Wednesday, 20 March, we held an Open House with members about the RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025. There was a presentation from RIPE NCC staff, including our CFO and Managing Director, as well as statements from both the Executive Board Chair and Treasurer. There was a productive discussion about the financial landscape we are operating in and thoughts about how best to fund the RIPE NCC. The Executive Board will meet on Monday and discuss what we heard this week, and they will decide on a draft charging proposal to put forward to the members in April. The session recording and the slides from the presentation are available at: https://www.ripe.net/membership/meetings/open-house/ripe-ncc-charging-scheme... At the bottom of this mail you can find the timestamps for the sections of the presentation and Q&A. We greatly appreciate the input we received from members this week and the constructive nature of the discussions. We encourage you all to continue to discuss the charging scheme on this list. Kind regards, Fergal Cunningham Head of Membership Engagement RIPE NCC Open House Timestamps 01:30 Welcome and Agenda, Fergal Cunningham 04:30 Development and History of the Charging Scheme, Fergal Cunningham 12:45 Consolidation and Inflation, Simon Jan Haytink 19:10 The Work We Need to Fund, Simon Jan Haytink 22:30 Summary and Key Questions, Hans Petter Holen 27:20 Statement from Executive Board Chair, Ondřej Filip 30:30 Statement from Executive Board Treasurer, Raymond Jetten 32:45 Q&A with RIPE NCC Members
Hi all Some thoughts: So if we continue with "one LIR, one fee" the fee will need to increase to something like 1800 EUR per year, and more in the following years, if I understood the slides correctly. A negligible amount of money for lots of LIRs, but too much for the smallest orgs. There is no guarantee that this increase will be accepted by the membership. It seems difficult to improve upon the category-based model proposed last year. Better try an APNIC-like model. Someone proposed to make categories based on company size. I like the idea, it's closer to the spirit of a non-profit association. The problem is how to determine company size in a fully automated way. With kind regards, Sebastien Brossier
Hi Sebastien. As you say, when you (and some other) talk about "the small" or "the large" organization, what do you mean? Let's say there are a LIR with 100,000 IPv4 addresses with a turnover of 10,000 euros per year and a profit of 5,000 euros and an organization with 254 IPv4 addresses with a turnover of 1 million euros per year, and a loss of 100,000 euros at the end of the year. Which of them is small and which is big? Before talking about small and large organizations, you need criteria by which you will evaluate them and the possibility of collecting such information. Let's, stop this idea until we can't answer this question.
Hi all
Some thoughts:
So if we continue with "one LIR, one fee" the fee will need to increase to something like 1800 EUR per year, and more in the following years, if I understood the slides correctly. A negligible amount of money for lots of LIRs, but too much for the smallest orgs. There is no guarantee that this increase will be accepted by the membership.
It seems difficult to improve upon the category-based model proposed last year. Better try an APNIC-like model.
Someone proposed to make categories based on company size. I like the idea, it's closer to the spirit of a non-profit association. The problem is how to determine company size in a fully automated way.
With kind regards, Sebastien Brossier
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----------------------------- С уважением Сербулов Дмитрий ООО "Альфа Нет Телеком" +7(498)785-8-000 раб. +7(495)940-92-11 доп. +7(925)518-10-69 сот.
On 28/03/2024 16:53, sdy@a-n-t.ru wrote:
Hi Sebastien.
As you say, when you (and some other) talk about "the small" or "the large" organization, what do you mean? Let's say there are a LIR with 100,000 IPv4 addresses with a turnover of 10,000 euros per year and a profit of 5,000 euros and an organization with 254 IPv4 addresses with a turnover of 1 million euros per year, and a loss of 100,000 euros at the end of the year. Which of them is small and which is big?
Before talking about small and large organizations, you need criteria by which you will evaluate them and the possibility of collecting such information.
Let's, stop this idea until we can't answer this question.
You're right, small and big can mean different things and there are various financial realities. But the only practical metric for RIPE NCC is the number of IP addresses. From there we can only assume that LIRs with lots of IP addresses have enough money for a higher membership fee, and that LIRs with very limited finances just have their initial allocation. Far from perfect, but it is difficult to do better. For sure, taking company data into account would be more fair, but probably impractical. You have the problem of collecting data across the whole service region, and how to consider groups. The problem is even bigger if you want to take profit into account. Sebastien Brossier
I personally, last year I was an absolute supporter of the transition to payment based on the number of allocated IP addresses. WITHOUT categories. But! This year, the economic situation in EU has changed dramatically. Therefore, I consider: the transition to payment in terms of resources is not relevant and even dangerous right now. The risk of problems for large payers in the RIPE can completely destabilize its work. Perhaps we should postpone this issue for a few years. Until the end in the coming huge economic crisis.
On 28/03/2024 16:53, sdy@a-n-t.ru wrote:
Hi Sebastien.
As you say, when you (and some other) talk about "the small" or "the large" organization, what do you mean? Let's say there are a LIR with 100,000 IPv4 addresses with a turnover of 10,000 euros per year and a profit of 5,000 euros and an organization with 254 IPv4 addresses with a turnover of 1 million euros per year, and a loss of 100,000 euros at the end of the year. Which of them is small and which is big?
Before talking about small and large organizations, you need criteria by which you will evaluate them and the possibility of collecting such information.
Let's, stop this idea until we can't answer this question.
You're right, small and big can mean different things and there are various financial realities.
But the only practical metric for RIPE NCC is the number of IP addresses. From there we can only assume that LIRs with lots of IP addresses have enough money for a higher membership fee, and that LIRs with very limited finances just have their initial allocation. Far from perfect, but it is difficult to do better.
For sure, taking company data into account would be more fair, but probably impractical. You have the problem of collecting data across the whole service region, and how to consider groups. The problem is even bigger if you want to take profit into account.
Sebastien Brossier
----------------------------- С уважением Сербулов Дмитрий ООО "Альфа Нет Телеком" +7(498)785-8-000 раб. +7(495)940-92-11 доп. +7(925)518-10-69 сот.
My opinion is the same as last year, it's very simple. If RIPE needs to raise prices a bit do so equally across the board for every LIR, but if RIPE is losing the # of LIR's due to mergers and consolidations then RIPE needs to downsize the budget accordingly. Daniel~ On 3/28/24 12:27, sdy@a-n-t.ru wrote:
I personally, last year I was an absolute supporter of the transition to payment based on the number of allocated IP addresses. WITHOUT categories.
But! This year, the economic situation in EU has changed dramatically. Therefore, I consider: the transition to payment in terms of resources is not relevant and even dangerous right now. The risk of problems for large payers in the RIPE can completely destabilize its work. Perhaps we should postpone this issue for a few years. Until the end in the coming huge economic crisis.
On 28/03/2024 16:53, sdy@a-n-t.ru wrote:
Hi Sebastien.
As you say, when you (and some other) talk about "the small" or "the large" organization, what do you mean? Let's say there are a LIR with 100,000 IPv4 addresses with a turnover of 10,000 euros per year and a profit of 5,000 euros and an organization with 254 IPv4 addresses with a turnover of 1 million euros per year, and a loss of 100,000 euros at the end of the year. Which of them is small and which is big?
Before talking about small and large organizations, you need criteria by which you will evaluate them and the possibility of collecting such information.
Let's, stop this idea until we can't answer this question. You're right, small and big can mean different things and there are various financial realities.
But the only practical metric for RIPE NCC is the number of IP addresses. From there we can only assume that LIRs with lots of IP addresses have enough money for a higher membership fee, and that LIRs with very limited finances just have their initial allocation. Far from perfect, but it is difficult to do better.
For sure, taking company data into account would be more fair, but probably impractical. You have the problem of collecting data across the whole service region, and how to consider groups. The problem is even bigger if you want to take profit into account.
Sebastien Brossier
----------------------------- С уважением Сербулов Дмитрий ООО "Альфа Нет Телеком" +7(498)785-8-000 раб. +7(495)940-92-11 доп. +7(925)518-10-69 сот.
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Le Thu, Mar 28, 2024 at 04:09:37PM +0100, Sebastien Brossier a écrit :
Hi all
Someone proposed to make categories based on company size. I like the idea, it's closer to the spirit of a non-profit association.
And then a bigger player will spawn a one-man company to be the LIR for them. -- Denis Fondras / Liopen
Yes, it will!
Le Thu, Mar 28, 2024 at 04:09:37PM +0100, Sebastien Brossier a écrit :
Hi all
Someone proposed to make categories based on company size. I like the idea, it's closer to the spirit of a non-profit association.
And then a bigger player will spawn a one-man company to be the LIR for them.
-- Denis Fondras / Liopen
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----------------------------- С уважением Сербулов Дмитрий ООО "Альфа Нет Телеком" +7(498)785-8-000 раб. +7(495)940-92-11 доп. +7(925)518-10-69 сот.
I agree with you Sebastien Brossier. There is discrimination against smaller organizations. 10 times, 100 times, and 10,000 times bigger, and we should not have the same tax that keeps increasing. We are physically unable to pay so much anymore and if others want that we leave the membership, tell us and we will leave. BESIKI TSAKADZE LLC AIRMAX Mobile 995593303384 -----Original Message----- From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> On Behalf Of Sebastien Brossier Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2024 7:10 PM To: members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025 Open House: Recording and Slides Available Hi all Some thoughts: So if we continue with "one LIR, one fee" the fee will need to increase to something like 1800 EUR per year, and more in the following years, if I understood the slides correctly. A negligible amount of money for lots of LIRs, but too much for the smallest orgs. There is no guarantee that this increase will be accepted by the membership. It seems difficult to improve upon the category-based model proposed last year. Better try an APNIC-like model. Someone proposed to make categories based on company size. I like the idea, it's closer to the spirit of a non-profit association. The problem is how to determine company size in a fully automated way. With kind regards, Sebastien Brossier _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/airmax.ge%40yahoo.com
Why must the fee increase? Why does everyone always assume that things must get more expensive. Why can't we ask the very simple question. "What can we do to reduce RIPE's budget?" It's a very simple question, how many services do you actually use from RIPE? Do you take advantage of all of the extra features? Do we even need those features? On 3/28/24 12:39, airmax.ge--- via members-discuss wrote:
I agree with you Sebastien Brossier. There is discrimination against smaller organizations. 10 times, 100 times, and 10,000 times bigger, and we should not have the same tax that keeps increasing. We are physically unable to pay so much anymore and if others want that we leave the membership, tell us and we will leave.
BESIKI TSAKADZE LLC AIRMAX
Mobile 995593303384
-----Original Message----- From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> On Behalf Of Sebastien Brossier Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2024 7:10 PM To: members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025 Open House: Recording and Slides Available
Hi all
Some thoughts:
So if we continue with "one LIR, one fee" the fee will need to increase to something like 1800 EUR per year, and more in the following years, if I understood the slides correctly. A negligible amount of money for lots of LIRs, but too much for the smallest orgs. There is no guarantee that this increase will be accepted by the membership.
It seems difficult to improve upon the category-based model proposed last year. Better try an APNIC-like model.
Someone proposed to make categories based on company size. I like the idea, it's closer to the spirit of a non-profit association. The problem is how to determine company size in a fully automated way.
With kind regards, Sebastien Brossier
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Fergal Will RIPE be circulating a spreadsheet to help with the calculations for any proposed charging schemes, as was done last year? Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains https://www.blacknight.com/ https://blacknight.blog/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Personal blog: https://michele.blog/ Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/ ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845 I have sent this email at a time that is convenient for me. I do not expect you to respond to it outside of your usual working hours. From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Fergal Cunningham <fergalc@ripe.net> Date: Friday, 22 March 2024 at 14:28 To: members-discuss@ripe.net <members-discuss@ripe.net> Subject: [members-discuss] RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025 Open House: Recording and Slides Available [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Please use caution when opening attachments from unrecognised sources. Dear all, This Wednesday, 20 March, we held an Open House with members about the RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025. There was a presentation from RIPE NCC staff, including our CFO and Managing Director, as well as statements from both the Executive Board Chair and Treasurer. There was a productive discussion about the financial landscape we are operating in and thoughts about how best to fund the RIPE NCC. The Executive Board will meet on Monday and discuss what we heard this week, and they will decide on a draft charging proposal to put forward to the members in April. The session recording and the slides from the presentation are available at: https://www.ripe.net/membership/meetings/open-house/ripe-ncc-charging-scheme... At the bottom of this mail you can find the timestamps for the sections of the presentation and Q&A. We greatly appreciate the input we received from members this week and the constructive nature of the discussions. We encourage you all to continue to discuss the charging scheme on this list. Kind regards, Fergal Cunningham Head of Membership Engagement RIPE NCC Open House Timestamps 01:30 Welcome and Agenda, Fergal Cunningham 04:30 Development and History of the Charging Scheme, Fergal Cunningham 12:45 Consolidation and Inflation, Simon Jan Haytink 19:10 The Work We Need to Fund, Simon Jan Haytink 22:30 Summary and Key Questions, Hans Petter Holen 27:20 Statement from Executive Board Chair, Ondřej Filip 30:30 Statement from Executive Board Treasurer, Raymond Jetten 32:45 Q&A with RIPE NCC Members _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/michele%40blacknight....
Hi Michele, We'll publish the draft charging scheme documents by 10 April, and we'll include supporting information that can help members understand the impact of the proposal. And if members need more information then we can of course work to provide that too. The final charging scheme proposal, which may or may not change after we receive input on the draft, will be published on 24 April. Any materials that might be of use we'll add to this page, where we've already collated a lot of supporting information: https://www.ripe.net/membership/mail/member-and-community-consultations/char... And we also have the open house slides and recording. The slides in particular can give some good background that can help the discussion on the list. https://www.ripe.net/membership/meetings/open-house/ripe-ncc-charging-scheme... All the best, Fergal On 28/03/2024 17:12, Michele Neylon - Blacknight wrote:
Fergal
Will RIPE be circulating a spreadsheet to help with the calculations for any proposed charging schemes, as was done last year?
Regards
Michele
--
Mr Michele Neylon
Blacknight Solutions
Hosting, Colocation & Domains
https://www.blacknight.com/ <https://www.blacknight.com/>
https://blacknight.blog/ <https://blacknight.blog/>
Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072
Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
Personal blog: https://michele.blog/ <https://michele.blog/>
Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/ <https://ceo.hosting/>
-------------------------------
Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845
I have sent this email at a time that is convenient for me. I do not expect you to respond to it outside of your usual working hours.
*From: *members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Fergal Cunningham <fergalc@ripe.net> *Date: *Friday, 22 March 2024 at 14:28 *To: *members-discuss@ripe.net <members-discuss@ripe.net> *Subject: *[members-discuss] RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025 Open House: Recording and Slides Available
[EXTERNAL EMAIL] Please use caution when opening attachments from unrecognised sources.
Dear all,
This Wednesday, 20 March, we held an Open House with members about the RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025. There was a presentation from RIPE NCC staff, including our CFO and Managing Director, as well as statements from both the Executive Board Chair and Treasurer.
There was a productive discussion about the financial landscape we are operating in and thoughts about how best to fund the RIPE NCC. The Executive Board will meet on Monday and discuss what we heard this week, and they will decide on a draft charging proposal to put forward to the members in April.
The session recording and the slides from the presentation are available at: https://www.ripe.net/membership/meetings/open-house/ripe-ncc-charging-scheme... <https://www.ripe.net/membership/meetings/open-house/ripe-ncc-charging-scheme-2025/>
At the bottom of this mail you can find the timestamps for the sections of the presentation and Q&A.
We greatly appreciate the input we received from members this week and the constructive nature of the discussions. We encourage you all to continue to discuss the charging scheme on this list.
Kind regards,
Fergal Cunningham Head of Membership Engagement RIPE NCC
Open House Timestamps
01:30 Welcome and Agenda, Fergal Cunningham 04:30 Development and History of the Charging Scheme, Fergal Cunningham 12:45 Consolidation and Inflation, Simon Jan Haytink 19:10 The Work We Need to Fund, Simon Jan Haytink 22:30 Summary and Key Questions, Hans Petter Holen 27:20 Statement from Executive Board Chair, Ondřej Filip 30:30 Statement from Executive Board Treasurer, Raymond Jetten 32:45 Q&A with RIPE NCC Members
_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss <https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss> Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/michele%40blacknight.... <https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/michele%40blacknight.com>
Fergal Thanks That’s all very helpful. Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains https://www.blacknight.com/ https://blacknight.blog/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Personal blog: https://michele.blog/ Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/ ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845 I have sent this email at a time that is convenient for me. I do not expect you to respond to it outside of your usual working hours. From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Fergal Cunningham <fergalc@ripe.net> Date: Tuesday, 2 April 2024 at 09:14 To: members-discuss@ripe.net <members-discuss@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025 Open House: Recording and Slides Available [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Please use caution when opening attachments from unrecognised sources. Hi Michele, We'll publish the draft charging scheme documents by 10 April, and we'll include supporting information that can help members understand the impact of the proposal. And if members need more information then we can of course work to provide that too. The final charging scheme proposal, which may or may not change after we receive input on the draft, will be published on 24 April. Any materials that might be of use we'll add to this page, where we've already collated a lot of supporting information: https://www.ripe.net/membership/mail/member-and-community-consultations/char... And we also have the open house slides and recording. The slides in particular can give some good background that can help the discussion on the list. https://www.ripe.net/membership/meetings/open-house/ripe-ncc-charging-scheme... All the best, Fergal On 28/03/2024 17:12, Michele Neylon - Blacknight wrote:
Fergal
Will RIPE be circulating a spreadsheet to help with the calculations for any proposed charging schemes, as was done last year?
Regards
Michele
--
Mr Michele Neylon
Blacknight Solutions
Hosting, Colocation & Domains
https://www.blacknight.com/ <https://www.blacknight.com/>
https://blacknight.blog/ <https://blacknight.blog/>
Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072
Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
Personal blog: https://michele.blog/ <https://michele.blog/>
Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/ <https://ceo.hosting/>
-------------------------------
Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845
I have sent this email at a time that is convenient for me. I do not expect you to respond to it outside of your usual working hours.
*From: *members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Fergal Cunningham <fergalc@ripe.net> *Date: *Friday, 22 March 2024 at 14:28 *To: *members-discuss@ripe.net <members-discuss@ripe.net> *Subject: *[members-discuss] RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025 Open House: Recording and Slides Available
[EXTERNAL EMAIL] Please use caution when opening attachments from unrecognised sources.
Dear all,
This Wednesday, 20 March, we held an Open House with members about the RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025. There was a presentation from RIPE NCC staff, including our CFO and Managing Director, as well as statements from both the Executive Board Chair and Treasurer.
There was a productive discussion about the financial landscape we are operating in and thoughts about how best to fund the RIPE NCC. The Executive Board will meet on Monday and discuss what we heard this week, and they will decide on a draft charging proposal to put forward to the members in April.
The session recording and the slides from the presentation are available at: https://www.ripe.net/membership/meetings/open-house/ripe-ncc-charging-scheme... <https://www.ripe.net/membership/meetings/open-house/ripe-ncc-charging-scheme-2025/>
At the bottom of this mail you can find the timestamps for the sections of the presentation and Q&A.
We greatly appreciate the input we received from members this week and the constructive nature of the discussions. We encourage you all to continue to discuss the charging scheme on this list.
Kind regards,
Fergal Cunningham Head of Membership Engagement RIPE NCC
Open House Timestamps
01:30 Welcome and Agenda, Fergal Cunningham 04:30 Development and History of the Charging Scheme, Fergal Cunningham 12:45 Consolidation and Inflation, Simon Jan Haytink 19:10 The Work We Need to Fund, Simon Jan Haytink 22:30 Summary and Key Questions, Hans Petter Holen 27:20 Statement from Executive Board Chair, Ondřej Filip 30:30 Statement from Executive Board Treasurer, Raymond Jetten 32:45 Q&A with RIPE NCC Members
_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss <https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss> Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/michele%40blacknight.... <https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/michele%40blacknight.com>
_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/michele%40blacknight....
On 22 Mar 2024, at 15:27, Fergal Cunningham <fergalc@ripe.net> wrote:
Dear all,
This Wednesday, 20 March, we held an Open House with members about the RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025. There was a presentation from RIPE NCC staff, including our CFO and Managing Director, as well as statements from both the Executive Board Chair and Treasurer.
There was a productive discussion about the financial landscape we are operating in and thoughts about how best to fund the RIPE NCC. The Executive Board will meet on Monday and discuss what we heard this week, and they will decide on a draft charging proposal to put forward to the members in April.
The session recording and the slides from the presentation are available at: https://www.ripe.net/membership/meetings/open-house/ripe-ncc-charging-scheme...
At the bottom of this mail you can find the timestamps for the sections of the presentation and Q&A.
We greatly appreciate the input we received from members this week and the constructive nature of the discussions. We encourage you all to continue to discuss the charging scheme on this list.
Kind regards,
Fergal Cunningham Head of Membership Engagement RIPE NCC
Open House Timestamps
01:30 Welcome and Agenda, Fergal Cunningham 04:30 Development and History of the Charging Scheme, Fergal Cunningham 12:45 Consolidation and Inflation, Simon Jan Haytink 19:10 The Work We Need to Fund, Simon Jan Haytink 22:30 Summary and Key Questions, Hans Petter Holen 27:20 Statement from Executive Board Chair, Ondřej Filip 30:30 Statement from Executive Board Treasurer, Raymond Jetten 32:45 Q&A with RIPE NCC Members
Dear Fergal, What is the formal process of deciding what options the AGM get to vote at, during the upcoming AGM? I would like to suggest a Consumer Price Index based re-indexing of the costs, using standard European CPI numbers from Eurostat. We all have to deal with increases in costs due to inflation, and it’s fair that RIPE does not have to fight inflation alone. Yearly inflation as released in March 2024 was at 2.4% — https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-euro-indicators/w/2-03042024-ap Best regards, Martin
Hi all! I want to ask add to vote variant D. All as was before+5% inflation and 10E per 1024 addresses IPv4 per year (counting at 31 december). Can we try to vote it too?
On 22 Mar 2024, at 15:27, Fergal Cunningham <fergalc@ripe.net> wrote:
Dear all,
This Wednesday, 20 March, we held an Open House with members about the RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025. There was a presentation from RIPE NCC staff, including our CFO and Managing Director, as well as statements from both the Executive Board Chair and Treasurer.
There was a productive discussion about the financial landscape we are operating in and thoughts about how best to fund the RIPE NCC. The Executive Board will meet on Monday and discuss what we heard this week, and they will decide on a draft charging proposal to put forward to the members in April.
The session recording and the slides from the presentation are available at: https://www.ripe.net/membership/meetings/open-house/ripe-ncc-charging-scheme...
At the bottom of this mail you can find the timestamps for the sections of the presentation and Q&A.
We greatly appreciate the input we received from members this week and the constructive nature of the discussions. We encourage you all to continue to discuss the charging scheme on this list.
Kind regards,
Fergal Cunningham Head of Membership Engagement RIPE NCC
Open House Timestamps
01:30 Welcome and Agenda, Fergal Cunningham 04:30 Development and History of the Charging Scheme, Fergal Cunningham 12:45 Consolidation and Inflation, Simon Jan Haytink 19:10 The Work We Need to Fund, Simon Jan Haytink 22:30 Summary and Key Questions, Hans Petter Holen 27:20 Statement from Executive Board Chair, Ondřej Filip 30:30 Statement from Executive Board Treasurer, Raymond Jetten 32:45 Q&A with RIPE NCC Members
Dear Fergal,
What is the formal process of deciding what options the AGM get to vote at, during the upcoming AGM?
I would like to suggest a Consumer Price Index based re-indexing of the costs, using standard European CPI numbers from Eurostat. We all have to deal with increases in costs due to inflation, and it’s fair that RIPE does not have to fight inflation alone. Yearly inflation as released in March 2024 was at 2.4% — https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-euro-indicators/w/2-03042024-ap
Best regards, Martin_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/sdy%40a-n-t.ru
----------------------------- С уважением Сербулов Дмитрий ООО "Альфа Нет Телеком" +7(498)785-8-000 раб. +7(495)940-92-11 доп. +7(925)518-10-69 сот.
Dear Martin, The Executive Board decided on these draft options at its meeting on 25th of March. So now the Board and management will follow the feedback on the draft proposal on the list. They will decide by 24 April if these will be the final options to vote on at the GM or if they want to make amendments. So essentially the decision on what gets voted on at the GM is made by the Board. You can see the minutes from that meeting here (section 3.3 on the Charging Scheme): https://www.ripe.net/about-us/executive-board/minutes/2024/174th-executive-b... And it's worth mentioning that this list is for members to discuss the issues while we and the board will listen. But we will of course reply and provide information to address the points raised if at all possible. All the best, Fergal On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 2:41 PM <sdy@a-n-t.ru> wrote:
Hi all!
I want to ask add to vote variant D. All as was before+5% inflation and 10E per 1024 addresses IPv4 per year (counting at 31 december). Can we try to vote it too?
On 22 Mar 2024, at 15:27, Fergal Cunningham <fergalc@ripe.net> wrote:
Dear all,
This Wednesday, 20 March, we held an Open House with members about the RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025. There was a presentation from RIPE NCC staff, including our CFO and Managing Director, as well as statements from both the Executive Board Chair and Treasurer.
There was a productive discussion about the financial landscape we are operating in and thoughts about how best to fund the RIPE NCC. The Executive Board will meet on Monday and discuss what we heard this week, and they will decide on a draft charging proposal to put forward to the members in April.
The session recording and the slides from the presentation are available at:
https://www.ripe.net/membership/meetings/open-house/ripe-ncc-charging-scheme...
At the bottom of this mail you can find the timestamps for the sections of the presentation and Q&A.
We greatly appreciate the input we received from members this week and the constructive nature of the discussions. We encourage you all to continue to discuss the charging scheme on this list.
Kind regards,
Fergal Cunningham Head of Membership Engagement RIPE NCC
Open House Timestamps
01:30 Welcome and Agenda, Fergal Cunningham 04:30 Development and History of the Charging Scheme, Fergal Cunningham 12:45 Consolidation and Inflation, Simon Jan Haytink 19:10 The Work We Need to Fund, Simon Jan Haytink 22:30 Summary and Key Questions, Hans Petter Holen 27:20 Statement from Executive Board Chair, Ondřej Filip 30:30 Statement from Executive Board Treasurer, Raymond Jetten 32:45 Q&A with RIPE NCC Members
Dear Fergal,
What is the formal process of deciding what options the AGM get to vote at, during the upcoming AGM?
I would like to suggest a Consumer Price Index based re-indexing of the costs, using standard European CPI numbers from Eurostat. We all have to deal with increases in costs due to inflation, and it’s fair that RIPE does not have to fight inflation alone. Yearly inflation as released in March 2024 was at 2.4% —
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-euro-indicators/w/2-03042024-ap
Best regards, Martin_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/sdy%40a-n-t.ru
----------------------------- С уважением Сербулов Дмитрий ООО "Альфа Нет Телеком" +7(498)785-8-000 раб. +7(495)940-92-11 доп. +7(925)518-10-69 сот.
Im suggest this scheme LIR membership fixed fee - 100 EUR/year per account + Resouce based fee: - ASN - 0 EUR/year per ASN - IPv6 - 0.05 EUR/year per IPv6 /48 (i.e. /48 = 0.05 EUR/year, /29 = 50 EUR/year) - IPv4 - 0.046875 EUR/year per IPv4 /32 (i.e. /24 = 12 EUR/year, /22 = 48 EUR/year) With parsed public stats from RIPE its resulted as = 42 529 216 EUR (TOTAL) -------------------------------- 2 149 200 EUR (LIR fixed fee) 1 152 761 EUR (IPv6) 39 227 255 EUR (IPv4) Someone say, ITS TO HIGH... But stop! IPv/4 on market for lease cost over 100 EUR/month (or 1200 EUR/year), but for LIR its will be cost only 12 EUR/year(!) - x100 difference! If some LIR dont want to have x100 profit over year - then, this LIR can return resources to RIPE pool and its will be RE-distributed across LIRs who seek resources. On 10.04.2024 13:38, Fergal Cunningham wrote:
Dear Martin,
The Executive Board decided on these draft options at its meeting on 25th of March. So now the Board and management will follow the feedback on the draft proposal on the list. They will decide by 24 April if these will be the final options to vote on at the GM or if they want to make amendments. So essentially the decision on what gets voted on at the GM is made by the Board. You can see the minutes from that meeting here (section 3.3 on the Charging Scheme): https://www.ripe.net/about-us/executive-board/minutes/2024/174th-executive-b...
And it's worth mentioning that this list is for members to discuss the issues while we and the board will listen. But we will of course reply and provide information to address the points raised if at all possible.
All the best, Fergal
On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 2:41 PM <sdy@a-n-t.ru <mailto:sdy@a-n-t.ru>> wrote:
Hi all!
I want to ask add to vote variant D. All as was before+5% inflation and 10E per 1024 addresses IPv4 per year (counting at 31 december). Can we try to vote it too?
> >> On 22 Mar 2024, at 15:27, Fergal Cunningham <fergalc@ripe.net <mailto:fergalc@ripe.net>> wrote: >> >> Dear all, >> >> This Wednesday, 20 March, we held an Open House with members about the >> RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025. There was a presentation from RIPE NCC >> staff, including our CFO and Managing Director, as well as statements >> from both the Executive Board Chair and Treasurer. >> >> There was a productive discussion about the financial landscape we are >> operating in and thoughts about how best to fund the RIPE NCC. The >> Executive Board will meet on Monday and discuss what we heard this week, >> and they will decide on a draft charging proposal to put forward to the >> members in April. >> >> The session recording and the slides from the presentation are available >> at: >> https://www.ripe.net/membership/meetings/open-house/ripe-ncc-charging-scheme... >> >> At the bottom of this mail you can find the timestamps for the sections >> of the presentation and Q&A. >> >> We greatly appreciate the input we received from members this week and >> the constructive nature of the discussions. We encourage you all to >> continue to discuss the charging scheme on this list. >> >> Kind regards, >> >> Fergal Cunningham >> Head of Membership Engagement >> RIPE NCC >> >> Open House Timestamps >> >> 01:30 Welcome and Agenda, Fergal Cunningham >> 04:30 Development and History of the Charging Scheme, Fergal Cunningham >> 12:45 Consolidation and Inflation, Simon Jan Haytink >> 19:10 The Work We Need to Fund, Simon Jan Haytink >> 22:30 Summary and Key Questions, Hans Petter Holen >> 27:20 Statement from Executive Board Chair, Ondřej Filip >> 30:30 Statement from Executive Board Treasurer, Raymond Jetten >> 32:45 Q&A with RIPE NCC Members > > Dear Fergal, > > What is the formal process of deciding what options the AGM get to vote > at, during the upcoming AGM? > > > I would like to suggest a Consumer Price Index based re-indexing of the > costs, using standard European CPI numbers from Eurostat. We all have to > deal with increases in costs due to inflation, and it’s fair that RIPE > does not have to fight inflation alone. Yearly inflation as released in > March 2024 was at 2.4% — > https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-euro-indicators/w/2-03042024-ap > > Best regards, > Martin_______________________________________________ > members-discuss mailing list > members-discuss@ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/sdy%40a-n-t.ru >
----------------------------- С уважением Сербулов Дмитрий ООО "Альфа Нет Телеком" +7(498)785-8-000 раб. +7(495)940-92-11 доп. +7(925)518-10-69 сот.
_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/admin%40roskomnadzor....
This is actually really good and should be looked at, people who don't use resources can then return them. ________________________________ From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of ROSKOMNADZOR LIMITED <admin@roskomnadzor.io> Sent: 10 April 2024 14:46 To: members-discuss@ripe.net <members-discuss@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025 Open House: Recording and Slides Available Im suggest this scheme LIR membership fixed fee - 100 EUR/year per account + Resouce based fee: - ASN - 0 EUR/year per ASN - IPv6 - 0.05 EUR/year per IPv6 /48 (i.e. /48 = 0.05 EUR/year, /29 = 50 EUR/year) - IPv4 - 0.046875 EUR/year per IPv4 /32 (i.e. /24 = 12 EUR/year, /22 = 48 EUR/year) With parsed public stats from RIPE its resulted as = 42 529 216 EUR (TOTAL) -------------------------------- 2 149 200 EUR (LIR fixed fee) 1 152 761 EUR (IPv6) 39 227 255 EUR (IPv4) Someone say, ITS TO HIGH... But stop! IPv/4 on market for lease cost over 100 EUR/month (or 1200 EUR/year), but for LIR its will be cost only 12 EUR/year(!) - x100 difference! If some LIR dont want to have x100 profit over year - then, this LIR can return resources to RIPE pool and its will be RE-distributed across LIRs who seek resources. On 10.04.2024 13:38, Fergal Cunningham wrote:
Dear Martin,
The Executive Board decided on these draft options at its meeting on 25th of March. So now the Board and management will follow the feedback on the draft proposal on the list. They will decide by 24 April if these will be the final options to vote on at the GM or if they want to make amendments. So essentially the decision on what gets voted on at the GM is made by the Board. You can see the minutes from that meeting here (section 3.3 on the Charging Scheme): https://www.ripe.net/about-us/executive-board/minutes/2024/174th-executive-b...
And it's worth mentioning that this list is for members to discuss the issues while we and the board will listen. But we will of course reply and provide information to address the points raised if at all possible.
All the best, Fergal
On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 2:41 PM <sdy@a-n-t.ru <mailto:sdy@a-n-t.ru>> wrote:
Hi all!
I want to ask add to vote variant D. All as was before+5% inflation and 10E per 1024 addresses IPv4 per year (counting at 31 december). Can we try to vote it too?
> >> On 22 Mar 2024, at 15:27, Fergal Cunningham <fergalc@ripe.net <mailto:fergalc@ripe.net>> wrote: >> >> Dear all, >> >> This Wednesday, 20 March, we held an Open House with members about the >> RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025. There was a presentation from RIPE NCC >> staff, including our CFO and Managing Director, as well as statements >> from both the Executive Board Chair and Treasurer. >> >> There was a productive discussion about the financial landscape we are >> operating in and thoughts about how best to fund the RIPE NCC. The >> Executive Board will meet on Monday and discuss what we heard this week, >> and they will decide on a draft charging proposal to put forward to the >> members in April. >> >> The session recording and the slides from the presentation are available >> at: >> https://www.ripe.net/membership/meetings/open-house/ripe-ncc-charging-scheme... >> >> At the bottom of this mail you can find the timestamps for the sections >> of the presentation and Q&A. >> >> We greatly appreciate the input we received from members this week and >> the constructive nature of the discussions. We encourage you all to >> continue to discuss the charging scheme on this list. >> >> Kind regards, >> >> Fergal Cunningham >> Head of Membership Engagement >> RIPE NCC >> >> Open House Timestamps >> >> 01:30 Welcome and Agenda, Fergal Cunningham >> 04:30 Development and History of the Charging Scheme, Fergal Cunningham >> 12:45 Consolidation and Inflation, Simon Jan Haytink >> 19:10 The Work We Need to Fund, Simon Jan Haytink >> 22:30 Summary and Key Questions, Hans Petter Holen >> 27:20 Statement from Executive Board Chair, Ondřej Filip >> 30:30 Statement from Executive Board Treasurer, Raymond Jetten >> 32:45 Q&A with RIPE NCC Members > > Dear Fergal, > > What is the formal process of deciding what options the AGM get to vote > at, during the upcoming AGM? > > > I would like to suggest a Consumer Price Index based re-indexing of the > costs, using standard European CPI numbers from Eurostat. We all have to > deal with increases in costs due to inflation, and it’s fair that RIPE > does not have to fight inflation alone. Yearly inflation as released in > March 2024 was at 2.4% — > https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-euro-indicators/w/2-03042024-ap > > Best regards, > Martin_______________________________________________ > members-discuss mailing list > members-discuss@ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/sdy%40a-n-t.ru >
----------------------------- С уважением Сербулов Дмитрий ООО "Альфа Нет Телеком" +7(498)785-8-000 раб. +7(495)940-92-11 доп. +7(925)518-10-69 сот.
_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/admin%40roskomnadzor....
_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/blake66%40live.co.uk
my dear members and the NCC board and management, during the discussion in the RIPE members' Telegram chat (unofficial!) I have proposed to have a "latecomer" discount for those LIRs that do not have any IPv4 allocations. So the wording can be: "For the members who do not have IPv4 allocated resources for all of 2025, the annual fee would be reduced by 500 EUR." (Of course, the amount is just a suggestion, and I expect NCC financial leadership to have precise numbers on hand that would be appropriate.) As it was repeatedly stated on this mailing list, everyone who came to join NCC past run out does not have any IPv4 resources unless they pay (quite high) market rental or transfer fees or have received /24 from the waiting list. Their membership, while charged equally, does not have an equal benefit of access to legacy internet, also known as IPv4. My company would not benefit from such a proposal as we use both an initial /21 and a "final" /22 allocation. I would like to ask our director or registry officer what is the total count of pure IPv6 LIRs (with or without IPv4 PI.) While the board is considering increasing the cost of AS numbers and/or PI resources, the members are not all paying the same fees, so it seems fair that those with zero IPv4 resources do have a (perhaps token) discount. -- dk@ (ready for all the ticket emails already) On Wed, 10 Apr 2024, at 16:38, Fergal Cunningham wrote:
Dear Martin,
The Executive Board decided on these draft options at its meeting on 25th of March. So now the Board and management will follow the feedback on the draft proposal on the list. They will decide by 24 April if these will be the final options to vote on at the GM or if they want to make amendments. So essentially the decision on what gets voted on at the GM is made by the Board. You can see the minutes from that meeting here (section 3.3 on the Charging Scheme): https://www.ripe.net/about-us/executive-board/minutes/2024/174th-executive-b...
And it's worth mentioning that this list is for members to discuss the issues while we and the board will listen. But we will of course reply and provide information to address the points raised if at all possible.
All the best, Fergal
Dear Fergal, I don’t envy the challenge of the board with this feedback, but I suspect it is wise to listen to it else the platform for new candidates to the board the next 5 years seems to be pretty straightforward and likely to be elected: Cost reductions. As a side, doesn’t the articles of association allow for membership organized items for AGM to vote on as well? Best regards, Martin Millnert
On 10 Apr 2024, at 15:38, Fergal Cunningham <fergalc@ripe.net> wrote:
Dear Martin,
The Executive Board decided on these draft options at its meeting on 25th of March. So now the Board and management will follow the feedback on the draft proposal on the list. They will decide by 24 April if these will be the final options to vote on at the GM or if they want to make amendments. So essentially the decision on what gets voted on at the GM is made by the Board. You can see the minutes from that meeting here (section 3.3 on the Charging Scheme): https://www.ripe.net/about-us/executive-board/minutes/2024/174th-executive-b...
And it's worth mentioning that this list is for members to discuss the issues while we and the board will listen. But we will of course reply and provide information to address the points raised if at all possible.
All the best, Fergal
On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 2:41 PM <sdy@a-n-t.ru <mailto:sdy@a-n-t.ru>> wrote:
Hi all!
I want to ask add to vote variant D. All as was before+5% inflation and 10E per 1024 addresses IPv4 per year (counting at 31 december). Can we try to vote it too?
On 22 Mar 2024, at 15:27, Fergal Cunningham <fergalc@ripe.net <mailto:fergalc@ripe.net>> wrote:
Dear all,
This Wednesday, 20 March, we held an Open House with members about the RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025. There was a presentation from RIPE NCC staff, including our CFO and Managing Director, as well as statements from both the Executive Board Chair and Treasurer.
There was a productive discussion about the financial landscape we are operating in and thoughts about how best to fund the RIPE NCC. The Executive Board will meet on Monday and discuss what we heard this week, and they will decide on a draft charging proposal to put forward to the members in April.
The session recording and the slides from the presentation are available at: https://www.ripe.net/membership/meetings/open-house/ripe-ncc-charging-scheme...
At the bottom of this mail you can find the timestamps for the sections of the presentation and Q&A.
We greatly appreciate the input we received from members this week and the constructive nature of the discussions. We encourage you all to continue to discuss the charging scheme on this list.
Kind regards,
Fergal Cunningham Head of Membership Engagement RIPE NCC
Open House Timestamps
01:30 Welcome and Agenda, Fergal Cunningham 04:30 Development and History of the Charging Scheme, Fergal Cunningham 12:45 Consolidation and Inflation, Simon Jan Haytink 19:10 The Work We Need to Fund, Simon Jan Haytink 22:30 Summary and Key Questions, Hans Petter Holen 27:20 Statement from Executive Board Chair, Ondřej Filip 30:30 Statement from Executive Board Treasurer, Raymond Jetten 32:45 Q&A with RIPE NCC Members
Dear Fergal,
What is the formal process of deciding what options the AGM get to vote at, during the upcoming AGM?
I would like to suggest a Consumer Price Index based re-indexing of the costs, using standard European CPI numbers from Eurostat. We all have to deal with increases in costs due to inflation, and it’s fair that RIPE does not have to fight inflation alone. Yearly inflation as released in March 2024 was at 2.4% — https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-euro-indicators/w/2-03042024-ap
Best regards, Martin_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/sdy%40a-n-t.ru
----------------------------- С уважением Сербулов Дмитрий ООО "Альфа Нет Телеком" +7(498)785-8-000 раб. +7(495)940-92-11 доп. +7(925)518-10-69 сот.
_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/martin.millnert%40bra...
Hi, i dont understand, why RIPE try to punish the small providers, as a non-profit organisation. They are trying to punish the small providers and strengthen or favor big proividers. There are thousends of solution advices from members as i see. Many good offers but also examples from other RIRs. Why still try to monopolize the sector by doing this. For example: IPv4 = IPv4 Allocations /24 MF = Yearly Fee AF = Allocation Fee PR = Percentage of the Yearly Fee to the Allocation Fee IPv4 MF AF PR ----------------------------------------------------------------- 16384 1.875 1.228.800 %0,15 4096 1.875 307.200 %0,6 256 1.875 19.200 %9,7 16 1.875 1.200 %156 1 1.875 75 %2500 All the adviced models are very similar and as you can see, for the smaller providers it is so dependant. And another point is, that the adviced schemes are almost identical. What should be chosen, i am not sure. If needed, surely can be found many solution variations, and i am sure better than adviced schemes. Instead of monopolizing the big providers, by advicing consolidation, you should provide some relif for small providers. And in all the adviced schemes the Yaerly Fee for every LIR account is too much for small providers… -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best Regards Murat TERZIOGLU PREBITS Bochumer Str. 20 44866 Bochum Deutschland Telefon: 0234/58825994 Telefax: 0234/58825995 <http://www.prebits.de/> www.prebits.de <mailto:info@prebits.de> info@prebits.de USt-ID: DE315418902 Von: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> Im Auftrag von Martin Millnert via members-discuss Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. April 2024 14:43 An: Fergal Cunningham <fergalc@ripe.net> Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net Betreff: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025 Open House: Recording and Slides Available Dear Fergal, I don’t envy the challenge of the board with this feedback, but I suspect it is wise to listen to it else the platform for new candidates to the board the next 5 years seems to be pretty straightforward and likely to be elected: Cost reductions. As a side, doesn’t the articles of association allow for membership organized items for AGM to vote on as well? Best regards, Martin Millnert On 10 Apr 2024, at 15:38, Fergal Cunningham <fergalc@ripe.net <mailto:fergalc@ripe.net> > wrote: Dear Martin, The Executive Board decided on these draft options at its meeting on 25th of March. So now the Board and management will follow the feedback on the draft proposal on the list. They will decide by 24 April if these will be the final options to vote on at the GM or if they want to make amendments. So essentially the decision on what gets voted on at the GM is made by the Board. You can see the minutes from that meeting here (section 3.3 on the Charging Scheme): https://www.ripe.net/about-us/executive-board/minutes/2024/174th-executive-b... And it's worth mentioning that this list is for members to discuss the issues while we and the board will listen. But we will of course reply and provide information to address the points raised if at all possible. All the best, Fergal On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 2:41 PM <sdy@a-n-t.ru <mailto:sdy@a-n-t.ru> > wrote: Hi all! I want to ask add to vote variant D. All as was before+5% inflation and 10E per 1024 addresses IPv4 per year (counting at 31 december). Can we try to vote it too?
On 22 Mar 2024, at 15:27, Fergal Cunningham <fergalc@ripe.net <mailto:fergalc@ripe.net> > wrote:
Dear all,
This Wednesday, 20 March, we held an Open House with members about the RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025. There was a presentation from RIPE NCC staff, including our CFO and Managing Director, as well as statements from both the Executive Board Chair and Treasurer.
There was a productive discussion about the financial landscape we are operating in and thoughts about how best to fund the RIPE NCC. The Executive Board will meet on Monday and discuss what we heard this week, and they will decide on a draft charging proposal to put forward to the members in April.
The session recording and the slides from the presentation are available at: https://www.ripe.net/membership/meetings/open-house/ripe-ncc-charging-scheme...
At the bottom of this mail you can find the timestamps for the sections of the presentation and Q&A.
We greatly appreciate the input we received from members this week and the constructive nature of the discussions. We encourage you all to continue to discuss the charging scheme on this list.
Kind regards,
Fergal Cunningham Head of Membership Engagement RIPE NCC
Open House Timestamps
01:30 Welcome and Agenda, Fergal Cunningham 04:30 Development and History of the Charging Scheme, Fergal Cunningham 12:45 Consolidation and Inflation, Simon Jan Haytink 19:10 The Work We Need to Fund, Simon Jan Haytink 22:30 Summary and Key Questions, Hans Petter Holen 27:20 Statement from Executive Board Chair, Ondřej Filip 30:30 Statement from Executive Board Treasurer, Raymond Jetten 32:45 Q&A with RIPE NCC Members
Dear Fergal,
What is the formal process of deciding what options the AGM get to vote at, during the upcoming AGM?
I would like to suggest a Consumer Price Index based re-indexing of the costs, using standard European CPI numbers from Eurostat. We all have to deal with increases in costs due to inflation, and it’s fair that RIPE does not have to fight inflation alone. Yearly inflation as released in March 2024 was at 2.4% — https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-euro-indicators/w/2-03042024-ap
Best regards, Martin_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/sdy%40a-n-t.ru
----------------------------- С уважением Сербулов Дмитрий ООО "Альфа Нет Телеком" +7(498)785-8-000 раб. +7(495)940-92-11 доп. +7(925)518-10-69 сот. _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/martin.millnert%40bra...
Sorry, it is already was discussed. It's wrong model with categories. It do not anything to decide resources deficits. It is strongly must be payment for each assigned deficit resource, like was the land tax in England. Only this way making all NCC equal in their rights, and will return unused resources to NCC. WE need to vote at first MUST we pay for each deficit resource or not. And it NEED to take in vote all NCC members!
Hi,
i dont understand, why RIPE try to punish the small providers, as a non-profit organisation. They are trying to punish the small providers and strengthen or favor big proividers.
There are thousends of solution advices from members as i see. Many good offers but also examples from other RIRs. Why still try to monopolize the sector by doing this.
For example:
IPv4 = IPv4 Allocations /24
MF = Yearly Fee
AF = Allocation Fee
PR = Percentage of the Yearly Fee to the Allocation Fee
IPv4 MF AF PR
-----------------------------------------------------------------
16384 1.875 1.228.800 %0,15
4096 1.875 307.200 %0,6
256 1.875 19.200 %9,7
16 1.875 1.200 %156
1 1.875 75 %2500
All the adviced models are very similar and as you can see, for the smaller providers it is so dependant.
And another point is, that the adviced schemes are almost identical. What should be chosen, i am not sure.
If needed, surely can be found many solution variations, and i am sure better than adviced schemes.
Instead of monopolizing the big providers, by advicing consolidation, you should provide some relif for small providers.
And in all the adviced schemes the Yaerly Fee for every LIR account is too much for small providers…
-- Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best Regards
Murat TERZIOGLU PREBITS
Bochumer Str. 20
44866 Bochum
Deutschland
Telefon: 0234/58825994
Telefax: 0234/58825995
<http://www.prebits.de/> www.prebits.de
<mailto:info@prebits.de> info@prebits.de
USt-ID: DE315418902
Von: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> Im Auftrag von Martin Millnert via members-discuss Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. April 2024 14:43 An: Fergal Cunningham <fergalc@ripe.net> Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net Betreff: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025 Open House: Recording and Slides Available
Dear Fergal,
I don’t envy the challenge of the board with this feedback, but I suspect it is wise to listen to it else the platform for new candidates to the board the next 5 years seems to be pretty straightforward and likely to be elected: Cost reductions.
As a side, doesn’t the articles of association allow for membership organized items for AGM to vote on as well?
Best regards,
Martin Millnert
On 10 Apr 2024, at 15:38, Fergal Cunningham <fergalc@ripe.net <mailto:fergalc@ripe.net> > wrote:
Dear Martin,
The Executive Board decided on these draft options at its meeting on 25th of March. So now the Board and management will follow the feedback on the draft proposal on the list. They will decide by 24 April if these will be the final options to vote on at the GM or if they want to make amendments. So essentially the decision on what gets voted on at the GM is made by the Board. You can see the minutes from that meeting here (section 3.3 on the Charging Scheme): https://www.ripe.net/about-us/executive-board/minutes/2024/174th-executive-b...
And it's worth mentioning that this list is for members to discuss the issues while we and the board will listen. But we will of course reply and provide information to address the points raised if at all possible.
All the best, Fergal
On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 2:41 PM <sdy@a-n-t.ru <mailto:sdy@a-n-t.ru> > wrote:
Hi all!
I want to ask add to vote variant D. All as was before+5% inflation and 10E per 1024 addresses IPv4 per year (counting at 31 december). Can we try to vote it too?
On 22 Mar 2024, at 15:27, Fergal Cunningham <fergalc@ripe.net <mailto:fergalc@ripe.net> > wrote:
Dear all,
This Wednesday, 20 March, we held an Open House with members about the RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025. There was a presentation from RIPE NCC staff, including our CFO and Managing Director, as well as statements from both the Executive Board Chair and Treasurer.
There was a productive discussion about the financial landscape we are operating in and thoughts about how best to fund the RIPE NCC. The Executive Board will meet on Monday and discuss what we heard this week, and they will decide on a draft charging proposal to put forward to the members in April.
The session recording and the slides from the presentation are available at: https://www.ripe.net/membership/meetings/open-house/ripe-ncc-charging-scheme...
At the bottom of this mail you can find the timestamps for the sections of the presentation and Q&A.
We greatly appreciate the input we received from members this week and the constructive nature of the discussions. We encourage you all to continue to discuss the charging scheme on this list.
Kind regards,
Fergal Cunningham Head of Membership Engagement RIPE NCC
Open House Timestamps
01:30 Welcome and Agenda, Fergal Cunningham 04:30 Development and History of the Charging Scheme, Fergal Cunningham 12:45 Consolidation and Inflation, Simon Jan Haytink 19:10 The Work We Need to Fund, Simon Jan Haytink 22:30 Summary and Key Questions, Hans Petter Holen 27:20 Statement from Executive Board Chair, Ondřej Filip 30:30 Statement from Executive Board Treasurer, Raymond Jetten 32:45 Q&A with RIPE NCC Members
Dear Fergal,
What is the formal process of deciding what options the AGM get to vote at, during the upcoming AGM?
I would like to suggest a Consumer Price Index based re-indexing of the costs, using standard European CPI numbers from Eurostat. We all have to deal with increases in costs due to inflation, and it’s fair that RIPE does not have to fight inflation alone. Yearly inflation as released in March 2024 was at 2.4% — https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-euro-indicators/w/2-03042024-ap
Best regards, Martin_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/sdy%40a-n-t.ru
----------------------------- С уважением Сербулов Дмитрий ООО "Альфа Нет Телеком" +7(498)785-8-000 раб. +7(495)940-92-11 доп. +7(925)518-10-69 сот.
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----------------------------- С уважением Сербулов Дмитрий ООО "Альфа Нет Телеком" +7(498)785-8-000 раб. +7(495)940-92-11 доп. +7(925)518-10-69 сот.
Sorry, it is already was discussed. It's wrong model with categories. ...
So all other RIRs are wrong ? Only RIPE is on the right road ?
From what I see "Alpha Net Telecom" still do not have IPV6 (why?) and your company holds sumary less of 2 x /19 IPV4 blocks so ...
I wrote about my calculation (based on IANA resources delegated to RIPE) for charging scheme a week ago: Your company will pay 1500 euro / year and RIPE bugdet will be up to 64M - sustainable for the next 10 years. So why you lobbing for something worse for you ? Let me tell you what will happen if we keep going with the flat fee for all... Merging Merging Merging in the end will left 2k-3k members (levels around 2005). You will be pay then 21 000 Euro and your resources will be still same. When 10 other LIRs are merged each of them will pay 2k again and will have same resources. how it sounds to you ? What you will say then in that future moment ? Do you think you can make a change in RIPE charging scheme _THEN_ (when all will waht to keep going with the flat model) ? Ivaylo Josifov VarnaIX / Varteh LTD +359 52 969393 Varna, Bulgaria On Thu, 11 Apr 2024, sdy@a-n-t.ru wrote:
Sorry, it is already was discussed. It's wrong model with categories. It do not anything to decide resources deficits. It is strongly must be payment for each assigned deficit resource, like was the land tax in England. Only this way making all NCC equal in their rights, and will return unused resources to NCC.
WE need to vote at first MUST we pay for each deficit resource or not. And it NEED to take in vote all NCC members!
Hi,
i dont understand, why RIPE try to punish the small providers, as a non-profit organisation. They are trying to punish the small providers and strengthen or favor big proividers.
There are thousends of solution advices from members as i see. Many good offers but also examples from other RIRs. Why still try to monopolize the sector by doing this.
For example:
IPv4 = IPv4 Allocations /24
MF = Yearly Fee
AF = Allocation Fee
PR = Percentage of the Yearly Fee to the Allocation Fee
IPv4 MF AF PR
-----------------------------------------------------------------
16384 1.875 1.228.800 %0,15
4096 1.875 307.200 %0,6
256 1.875 19.200 %9,7
16 1.875 1.200 %156
1 1.875 75 %2500
All the adviced models are very similar and as you can see, for the smaller providers it is so dependant.
And another point is, that the adviced schemes are almost identical. What should be chosen, i am not sure.
If needed, surely can be found many solution variations, and i am sure better than adviced schemes.
Instead of monopolizing the big providers, by advicing consolidation, you should provide some relif for small providers.
And in all the adviced schemes the Yaerly Fee for every LIR account is too much for small providers?
-- Mit freundlichen Gr??en / Best Regards
Murat TERZIOGLU PREBITS
Bochumer Str. 20
44866 Bochum
Deutschland
Telefon: 0234/58825994
Telefax: 0234/58825995
<http://www.prebits.de/> www.prebits.de
<mailto:info@prebits.de> info@prebits.de
USt-ID: DE315418902
Von: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> Im Auftrag von Martin Millnert via members-discuss Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. April 2024 14:43 An: Fergal Cunningham <fergalc@ripe.net> Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net Betreff: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025 Open House: Recording and Slides Available
Dear Fergal,
I don?t envy the challenge of the board with this feedback, but I suspect it is wise to listen to it else the platform for new candidates to the board the next 5 years seems to be pretty straightforward and likely to be elected: Cost reductions.
As a side, doesn?t the articles of association allow for membership organized items for AGM to vote on as well?
Best regards,
Martin Millnert
On 10 Apr 2024, at 15:38, Fergal Cunningham <fergalc@ripe.net <mailto:fergalc@ripe.net> > wrote:
Dear Martin,
The Executive Board decided on these draft options at its meeting on 25th of March. So now the Board and management will follow the feedback on the draft proposal on the list. They will decide by 24 April if these will be the final options to vote on at the GM or if they want to make amendments. So essentially the decision on what gets voted on at the GM is made by the Board. You can see the minutes from that meeting here (section 3.3 on the Charging Scheme): https://www.ripe.net/about-us/executive-board/minutes/2024/174th-executive-b...
And it's worth mentioning that this list is for members to discuss the issues while we and the board will listen. But we will of course reply and provide information to address the points raised if at all possible.
All the best, Fergal
On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 2:41?PM <sdy@a-n-t.ru <mailto:sdy@a-n-t.ru> > wrote:
Hi all!
I want to ask add to vote variant D. All as was before+5% inflation and 10E per 1024 addresses IPv4 per year (counting at 31 december). Can we try to vote it too?
On 22 Mar 2024, at 15:27, Fergal Cunningham <fergalc@ripe.net <mailto:fergalc@ripe.net> > wrote:
Dear all,
This Wednesday, 20 March, we held an Open House with members about the RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025. There was a presentation from RIPE NCC staff, including our CFO and Managing Director, as well as statements from both the Executive Board Chair and Treasurer.
There was a productive discussion about the financial landscape we are operating in and thoughts about how best to fund the RIPE NCC. The Executive Board will meet on Monday and discuss what we heard this week, and they will decide on a draft charging proposal to put forward to the members in April.
The session recording and the slides from the presentation are available at: https://www.ripe.net/membership/meetings/open-house/ripe-ncc-charging-scheme...
At the bottom of this mail you can find the timestamps for the sections of the presentation and Q&A.
We greatly appreciate the input we received from members this week and the constructive nature of the discussions. We encourage you all to continue to discuss the charging scheme on this list.
Kind regards,
Fergal Cunningham Head of Membership Engagement RIPE NCC
Open House Timestamps
01:30 Welcome and Agenda, Fergal Cunningham 04:30 Development and History of the Charging Scheme, Fergal Cunningham 12:45 Consolidation and Inflation, Simon Jan Haytink 19:10 The Work We Need to Fund, Simon Jan Haytink 22:30 Summary and Key Questions, Hans Petter Holen 27:20 Statement from Executive Board Chair, Ond?ej Filip 30:30 Statement from Executive Board Treasurer, Raymond Jetten 32:45 Q&A with RIPE NCC Members
Dear Fergal,
What is the formal process of deciding what options the AGM get to vote at, during the upcoming AGM?
I would like to suggest a Consumer Price Index based re-indexing of the costs, using standard European CPI numbers from Eurostat. We all have to deal with increases in costs due to inflation, and it?s fair that RIPE does not have to fight inflation alone. Yearly inflation as released in March 2024 was at 2.4% ? https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-euro-indicators/w/2-03042024-ap
Best regards, Martin_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/sdy%40a-n-t.ru
----------------------------- ? ????????? ???????? ??????? ??? "????? ??? ???????" +7(498)785-8-000 ???. +7(495)940-92-11 ???. +7(925)518-10-69 ???.
_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/martin.millnert%40bra...
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----------------------------- ? ????????? ???????? ??????? ??? "????? ??? ???????" +7(498)785-8-000 ???. +7(495)940-92-11 ???. +7(925)518-10-69 ???.
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Your argument is flawed. "in the end will left 2k-3k members (levels around 2005)" If we have 2k-3k members, then RIPE absolutely does not need 200 employees to manage those few members and it does not need a 41 million dollar budget... On 4/11/24 9:53 AM, ivaylo wrote:
Sorry, it is already was discussed. It's wrong model with categories. ...
So all other RIRs are wrong ? Only RIPE is on the right road ?
From what I see "Alpha Net Telecom" still do not have IPV6 (why?) and your company holds sumary less of 2 x /19 IPV4 blocks so ...
I wrote about my calculation (based on IANA resources delegated to RIPE) for charging scheme a week ago: Your company will pay 1500 euro / year and RIPE bugdet will be up to 64M - sustainable for the next 10 years. So why you lobbing for something worse for you ?
Let me tell you what will happen if we keep going with the flat fee for all... Merging Merging Merging in the end will left 2k-3k members (levels around 2005). You will be pay then 21 000 Euro and your resources will be still same. When 10 other LIRs are merged each of them will pay 2k again and will have same resources. how it sounds to you ? What you will say then in that future moment ? Do you think you can make a change in RIPE charging scheme _THEN_ (when all will waht to keep going with the flat model) ?
Ivaylo Josifov VarnaIX / Varteh LTD +359 52 969393 Varna, Bulgaria
On Thu, 11 Apr 2024, sdy@a-n-t.ru wrote:
Sorry, it is already was discussed. It's wrong model with categories. It do not anything to decide resources deficits. It is strongly must be payment for each assigned deficit resource, like was the land tax in England. Only this way making all NCC equal in their rights, and will return unused resources to NCC.
WE need to vote at first MUST we pay for each deficit resource or not. And it NEED to take in vote all NCC members!
Hi,
i dont understand, why RIPE try to punish the small providers, as a non-profit organisation. They are trying to punish the small providers and strengthen or favor big proividers.
There are thousends of solution advices from members as i see. Many good offers but also examples from other RIRs. Why still try to monopolize the sector by doing this.
For example:
IPv4 = IPv4 Allocations /24
MF = Yearly Fee
AF = Allocation Fee
PR = Percentage of the Yearly Fee to the Allocation Fee
IPv4 MF AF PR
-----------------------------------------------------------------
16384 1.875 1.228.800 %0,15
4096 1.875 307.200 %0,6
256 1.875 19.200 %9,7
16 1.875 1.200 %156
1 1.875 75 %2500
All the adviced models are very similar and as you can see, for the smaller providers it is so dependant.
And another point is, that the adviced schemes are almost identical. What should be chosen, i am not sure.
If needed, surely can be found many solution variations, and i am sure better than adviced schemes.
Instead of monopolizing the big providers, by advicing consolidation, you should provide some relif for small providers.
And in all the adviced schemes the Yaerly Fee for every LIR account is too much for small providers?
-- Mit freundlichen Gr??en / Best Regards
Murat TERZIOGLU PREBITS
Bochumer Str. 20
44866 Bochum
Deutschland
Telefon: 0234/58825994
Telefax: 0234/58825995
<http://www.prebits.de/> www.prebits.de
<mailto:info@prebits.de> info@prebits.de
USt-ID: DE315418902
Von: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> Im Auftrag von Martin Millnert via members-discuss Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. April 2024 14:43 An: Fergal Cunningham <fergalc@ripe.net> Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net Betreff: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025 Open House: Recording and Slides Available
Dear Fergal,
I don?t envy the challenge of the board with this feedback, but I suspect it is wise to listen to it else the platform for new candidates to the board the next 5 years seems to be pretty straightforward and likely to be elected: Cost reductions.
As a side, doesn?t the articles of association allow for membership organized items for AGM to vote on as well?
Best regards,
Martin Millnert
On 10 Apr 2024, at 15:38, Fergal Cunningham <fergalc@ripe.net <mailto:fergalc@ripe.net> > wrote:
Dear Martin,
The Executive Board decided on these draft options at its meeting on 25th of March. So now the Board and management will follow the feedback on the draft proposal on the list. They will decide by 24 April if these will be the final options to vote on at the GM or if they want to make amendments. So essentially the decision on what gets voted on at the GM is made by the Board. You can see the minutes from that meeting here (section 3.3 on the Charging Scheme): https://www.ripe.net/about-us/executive-board/minutes/2024/174th-executive-b...
And it's worth mentioning that this list is for members to discuss the issues while we and the board will listen. But we will of course reply and provide information to address the points raised if at all possible.
All the best, Fergal
On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 2:41?PM <sdy@a-n-t.ru <mailto:sdy@a-n-t.ru> > wrote:
Hi all!
I want to ask add to vote variant D. All as was before+5% inflation and 10E per 1024 addresses IPv4 per year (counting at 31 december). Can we try to vote it too?
On 22 Mar 2024, at 15:27, Fergal Cunningham <fergalc@ripe.net <mailto:fergalc@ripe.net> > wrote:
Dear all,
This Wednesday, 20 March, we held an Open House with members about the RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025. There was a presentation from RIPE NCC staff, including our CFO and Managing Director, as well as statements from both the Executive Board Chair and Treasurer.
There was a productive discussion about the financial landscape we are operating in and thoughts about how best to fund the RIPE NCC. The Executive Board will meet on Monday and discuss what we heard this week, and they will decide on a draft charging proposal to put forward to the members in April.
The session recording and the slides from the presentation are available at: https://www.ripe.net/membership/meetings/open-house/ripe-ncc-charging-scheme...
At the bottom of this mail you can find the timestamps for the sections of the presentation and Q&A.
We greatly appreciate the input we received from members this week and the constructive nature of the discussions. We encourage you all to continue to discuss the charging scheme on this list.
Kind regards,
Fergal Cunningham Head of Membership Engagement RIPE NCC
Open House Timestamps
01:30 Welcome and Agenda, Fergal Cunningham 04:30 Development and History of the Charging Scheme, Fergal Cunningham 12:45 Consolidation and Inflation, Simon Jan Haytink 19:10 The Work We Need to Fund, Simon Jan Haytink 22:30 Summary and Key Questions, Hans Petter Holen 27:20 Statement from Executive Board Chair, Ond?ej Filip 30:30 Statement from Executive Board Treasurer, Raymond Jetten 32:45 Q&A with RIPE NCC Members
Dear Fergal,
What is the formal process of deciding what options the AGM get to vote at, during the upcoming AGM?
I would like to suggest a Consumer Price Index based re-indexing of the costs, using standard European CPI numbers from Eurostat. We all have to deal with increases in costs due to inflation, and it?s fair that RIPE does not have to fight inflation alone. Yearly inflation as released in March 2024 was at 2.4% ? https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-euro-indicators/w/2-03042024-ap
Best regards, Martin_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/sdy%40a-n-t.ru
----------------------------- ? ????????? ???????? ??????? ??? "????? ??? ???????" +7(498)785-8-000 ???. +7(495)940-92-11 ???. +7(925)518-10-69 ???.
_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/martin.millnert%40bra...
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----------------------------- ? ????????? ???????? ??????? ??? "????? ??? ???????" +7(498)785-8-000 ???. +7(495)940-92-11 ???. +7(925)518-10-69 ???.
_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/ivaylo%40bglans.net
_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/daniel%40privatesyste...
If we have 2k-3k members, then RIPE absolutely does not need 200 employees to manage those few members and it does not need a 41 million dollar budget...
Can you please explain and give exact numbers, which (%) of the RIPE work right now is done manualy by hand, and depending of the member numbers ? Because I dont see such, nor I can see such in the future, everything is/can_be automatized. In 2005 huge part (mail sending system) of the RIPE work was done by hand, now you go on the web (if you can login because the stupid pointles 2fa) and click, all behind is automated. The problems come from local government/financial/sanctions/laws/inflation that need hand (employee) work, usless not working project, and that do not depend strongly on member numbers. But the flat fee strongly depends on how many LIR member we are. Ivaylo Josifov VarnaIX / Varteh LTD +359 52 969393 Varna, Bulgaria On Thu, 11 Apr 2024, Daniel Pearson wrote:
Your argument is flawed.
"in the end will left 2k-3k members (levels around 2005)"
If we have 2k-3k members, then RIPE absolutely does not need 200 employees to manage those few members and it does not need a 41 million dollar budget...
On 4/11/24 9:53 AM, ivaylo wrote:
Sorry, it is already was discussed. It's wrong model with categories. ...
So all other RIRs are wrong ? Only RIPE is on the right road ?
From what I see "Alpha Net Telecom" still do not have IPV6 (why?) and your company holds sumary less of 2 x /19 IPV4 blocks so ...
I wrote about my calculation (based on IANA resources delegated to RIPE) for charging scheme a week ago: Your company will pay 1500 euro / year and RIPE bugdet will be up to 64M - sustainable for the next 10 years. So why you lobbing for something worse for you ?
Let me tell you what will happen if we keep going with the flat fee for all... Merging Merging Merging in the end will left 2k-3k members (levels around 2005). You will be pay then 21 000 Euro and your resources will be still same. When 10 other LIRs are merged each of them will pay 2k again and will have same resources. how it sounds to you ? What you will say then in that future moment ? Do you think you can make a change in RIPE charging scheme _THEN_ (when all will waht to keep going with the flat model) ?
Ivaylo Josifov VarnaIX / Varteh LTD +359 52 969393 Varna, Bulgaria
On Thu, 11 Apr 2024, sdy@a-n-t.ru wrote:
Sorry, it is already was discussed. It's wrong model with categories. It do not anything to decide resources deficits. It is strongly must be payment for each assigned deficit resource, like was the? land tax in England. Only this way making all NCC equal in their rights, and will return unused resources to NCC.
WE need to vote at first MUST we pay for each deficit resource or not. And it NEED to take in vote all NCC members!
Hi,
i dont understand, why RIPE try to punish the small providers, as a non-profit organisation. They are trying to punish the small providers and strengthen or favor big proividers.
There are thousends of solution advices from members as i see. Many good offers but also examples from other RIRs. Why still try to monopolize the sector by doing this.
For example:
IPv4 = IPv4 Allocations /24
MF = Yearly Fee
AF = Allocation Fee
PR = Percentage of the Yearly Fee to the Allocation Fee
IPv4????????????????????? MF???????????????????????? AF ????? PR
-----------------------------------------------------------------
16384????????????????? 1.875 1.228.800????????? %0,15
4096???????????????????? 1.875??????????????????? 307.200 %0,6
256??????????????????????? 1.875??????????????????? 19.200 %9,7
16????????????????????????? 1.875??????????????????? 1.200 ? %156
1???????????????????????????? 1.875??????????????????? 75 ??????? %2500
All the adviced models are very similar and as you can see, for the smaller providers it is so dependant.
And another point is, that the adviced schemes are almost identical. What should be chosen, i am not sure.
If needed, surely can be found many solution variations, and i am sure better than adviced schemes.
Instead of monopolizing the big providers, by advicing consolidation, you should provide some relif for small providers.
And in all the adviced schemes the Yaerly Fee for every LIR account is too much for small providers?
-- Mit freundlichen Gr??en / Best Regards
Murat TERZIOGLU PREBITS
Bochumer Str. 20
44866 Bochum
Deutschland
Telefon: 0234/58825994
Telefax: 0234/58825995
?<http://www.prebits.de/> www.prebits.de
?<mailto:info@prebits.de> info@prebits.de
USt-ID: DE315418902
Von: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> Im Auftrag von Martin Millnert via members-discuss Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. April 2024 14:43 An: Fergal Cunningham <fergalc@ripe.net> Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net Betreff: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025 Open House: Recording and Slides Available
Dear Fergal,
I don?t envy the challenge of the board with this feedback, but I suspect it is wise to listen to it else the platform for new candidates to the board the next 5 years seems to be pretty straightforward and likely to be elected: Cost reductions.
As a side, doesn?t the articles of association allow for membership organized items for AGM to vote on as well?
Best regards,
Martin Millnert
On 10 Apr 2024, at 15:38, Fergal Cunningham <fergalc@ripe.net <mailto:fergalc@ripe.net> > wrote:
Dear Martin,
The Executive Board decided on these draft options at its meeting on 25th of March. So now the Board and management will follow the feedback on the draft proposal on the list. They will decide by 24 April if these will be the final options to vote on at the GM or if they want to make amendments. So essentially the decision on what gets voted on at the GM is made by the Board. You can see the minutes from that meeting here (section 3.3 on the Charging Scheme): https://www.ripe.net/about-us/executive-board/minutes/2024/174th-executive-b...
And it's worth mentioning that this list is for members to discuss the issues while we and the board will listen. But we will of course reply and provide information to address the points raised if at all possible.
All the best, Fergal
On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 2:41?PM <sdy@a-n-t.ru <mailto:sdy@a-n-t.ru> > wrote:
Hi all!
I want to ask add to vote variant D. All as was before+5% inflation and 10E per 1024 addresses IPv4 per year (counting at 31 december). Can we try to vote it too?
On 22 Mar 2024, at 15:27, Fergal Cunningham <fergalc@ripe.net <mailto:fergalc@ripe.net> > wrote:
Dear all,
This Wednesday, 20 March, we held an Open House with members about the RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025. There was a presentation from RIPE NCC staff, including our CFO and Managing Director, as well as statements from both the Executive Board Chair and Treasurer.
There was a productive discussion about the financial landscape we are operating in and thoughts about how best to fund the RIPE NCC. The Executive Board will meet on Monday and discuss what we heard this week, and they will decide on a draft charging proposal to put forward to the members in April.
The session recording and the slides from the presentation are available at: https://www.ripe.net/membership/meetings/open-house/ripe-ncc-charging-scheme...
At the bottom of this mail you can find the timestamps for the sections of the presentation and Q&A.
We greatly appreciate the input we received from members this week and the constructive nature of the discussions. We encourage you all to continue to discuss the charging scheme on this list.
Kind regards,
Fergal Cunningham Head of Membership Engagement RIPE NCC
Open House Timestamps
01:30 Welcome and Agenda, Fergal Cunningham 04:30 Development and History of the Charging Scheme, Fergal Cunningham 12:45 Consolidation and Inflation, Simon Jan Haytink 19:10 The Work We Need to Fund, Simon Jan Haytink 22:30 Summary and Key Questions, Hans Petter Holen 27:20 Statement from Executive Board Chair, Ond?ej Filip 30:30 Statement from Executive Board Treasurer, Raymond Jetten 32:45 Q&A with RIPE NCC Members
Dear Fergal,
What is the formal process of deciding what options the AGM get to vote at, during the upcoming AGM?
I would like to suggest a Consumer Price Index based re-indexing of the costs, using standard European CPI numbers from Eurostat. We all have to deal with increases in costs due to inflation, and it?s fair that RIPE does not have to fight inflation alone.? Yearly inflation as released in March 2024 was at 2.4% ? https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-euro-indicators/w/2-03042024-ap
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Hello, I think the financing of the stuff is not problem. The problem is, unfair charging scheme proposals. The actual proposals try to punish the small LIRs and and make them pay for big LIRs. I dont have statistic about this but, in this charging scheme the small LIRs pay for large LIRs and they make profit from it... My opinion is, that there should be 3 different fee. - LIR fee same for all, a small fee for organizational costs (for ex. 400 EUR) - resource holding fee depending on the amount of allocation available again for organizational costs (Graduated price may be) - allocation fee, also for every allocation (50-75€ again) Of course 10 minute thinking would not work but the advised proposals arent for a non-profit organization members usable... not for the gains.. Someone with 1 allocation should pay 1850€ and someone who have 44 allocation should pay 4000€... The right one makes more organizational costs but the left one pays for him.. If RIPE is a non-profit organisation, like State, and if we compare the resources with properties, they should be handeled and calculated like this. A small county proterty should not pay unproportional as a complete city property with thousends of houses... But the problem is, that big LIRs trying to make easier for themselves and let the smaller LIRs pay for them.. "non-profit organisation" is important argument. If they organize the internet, they should gain all the people or providers ... In the new global century, we are living the stone age unfortunately... -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best Regards Murat TERZIOGLU PREBITS Bochumer Str. 20 44866 Bochum Deutschland Telefon: 0234/58825994 Telefax: 0234/58825995 www.prebits.de info@prebits.de USt-ID: DE315418902 -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> Im Auftrag von Daniel Pearson Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. April 2024 17:01 An: members-discuss@ripe.net Betreff: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025 Open House: Recording and Slides Available Your argument is flawed. "in the end will left 2k-3k members (levels around 2005)" If we have 2k-3k members, then RIPE absolutely does not need 200 employees to manage those few members and it does not need a 41 million dollar budget... On 4/11/24 9:53 AM, ivaylo wrote:
Sorry, it is already was discussed. It's wrong model with categories. ...
So all other RIRs are wrong ? Only RIPE is on the right road ?
From what I see "Alpha Net Telecom" still do not have IPV6 (why?) and your company holds sumary less of 2 x /19 IPV4 blocks so ...
I wrote about my calculation (based on IANA resources delegated to RIPE) for charging scheme a week ago: Your company will pay 1500 euro / year and RIPE bugdet will be up to 64M - sustainable for the next 10 years. So why you lobbing for something worse for you ?
Let me tell you what will happen if we keep going with the flat fee for all... Merging Merging Merging in the end will left 2k-3k members (levels around 2005). You will be pay then 21 000 Euro and your resources will be still same. When 10 other LIRs are merged each of them will pay 2k again and will have same resources. how it sounds to you ? What you will say then in that future moment ? Do you think you can make a change in RIPE charging scheme _THEN_ (when all will waht to keep going with the flat model) ?
Ivaylo Josifov VarnaIX / Varteh LTD +359 52 969393 Varna, Bulgaria
On Thu, 11 Apr 2024, sdy@a-n-t.ru wrote:
Sorry, it is already was discussed. It's wrong model with categories. It do not anything to decide resources deficits. It is strongly must be payment for each assigned deficit resource, like was the land tax in England. Only this way making all NCC equal in their rights, and will return unused resources to NCC.
WE need to vote at first MUST we pay for each deficit resource or not. And it NEED to take in vote all NCC members!
Hi,
i dont understand, why RIPE try to punish the small providers, as a non-profit organisation. They are trying to punish the small providers and strengthen or favor big proividers.
There are thousends of solution advices from members as i see. Many good offers but also examples from other RIRs. Why still try to monopolize the sector by doing this.
For example:
IPv4 = IPv4 Allocations /24
MF = Yearly Fee
AF = Allocation Fee
PR = Percentage of the Yearly Fee to the Allocation Fee
IPv4 MF AF PR
-----------------------------------------------------------------
16384 1.875 1.228.800 %0,15
4096 1.875 307.200 %0,6
256 1.875 19.200 %9,7
16 1.875 1.200 %156
1 1.875 75 %2500
All the adviced models are very similar and as you can see, for the smaller providers it is so dependant.
And another point is, that the adviced schemes are almost identical. What should be chosen, i am not sure.
If needed, surely can be found many solution variations, and i am sure better than adviced schemes.
Instead of monopolizing the big providers, by advicing consolidation, you should provide some relif for small providers.
And in all the adviced schemes the Yaerly Fee for every LIR account is too much for small providers?
-- Mit freundlichen Gr??en / Best Regards
Murat TERZIOGLU PREBITS
Bochumer Str. 20
44866 Bochum
Deutschland
Telefon: 0234/58825994
Telefax: 0234/58825995
<http://www.prebits.de/> www.prebits.de
<mailto:info@prebits.de> info@prebits.de
USt-ID: DE315418902
Von: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> Im Auftrag von Martin Millnert via members-discuss Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. April 2024 14:43 An: Fergal Cunningham <fergalc@ripe.net> Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net Betreff: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025 Open House: Recording and Slides Available
Dear Fergal,
I don?t envy the challenge of the board with this feedback, but I suspect it is wise to listen to it else the platform for new candidates to the board the next 5 years seems to be pretty straightforward and likely to be elected: Cost reductions.
As a side, doesn?t the articles of association allow for membership organized items for AGM to vote on as well?
Best regards,
Martin Millnert
On 10 Apr 2024, at 15:38, Fergal Cunningham <fergalc@ripe.net <mailto:fergalc@ripe.net> > wrote:
Dear Martin,
The Executive Board decided on these draft options at its meeting on 25th of March. So now the Board and management will follow the feedback on the draft proposal on the list. They will decide by 24 April if these will be the final options to vote on at the GM or if they want to make amendments. So essentially the decision on what gets voted on at the GM is made by the Board. You can see the minutes from that meeting here (section 3.3 on the Charging Scheme): https://www.ripe.net/about-us/executive-board/minutes/2024/174th-executive-b...
And it's worth mentioning that this list is for members to discuss the issues while we and the board will listen. But we will of course reply and provide information to address the points raised if at all possible.
All the best, Fergal
On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 2:41?PM <sdy@a-n-t.ru <mailto:sdy@a-n-t.ru> > wrote:
Hi all!
I want to ask add to vote variant D. All as was before+5% inflation and 10E per 1024 addresses IPv4 per year (counting at 31 december). Can we try to vote it too?
On 22 Mar 2024, at 15:27, Fergal Cunningham <fergalc@ripe.net <mailto:fergalc@ripe.net> > wrote:
Dear all,
This Wednesday, 20 March, we held an Open House with members about the RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025. There was a presentation from RIPE NCC staff, including our CFO and Managing Director, as well as statements from both the Executive Board Chair and Treasurer.
There was a productive discussion about the financial landscape we are operating in and thoughts about how best to fund the RIPE NCC. The Executive Board will meet on Monday and discuss what we heard this week, and they will decide on a draft charging proposal to put forward to the members in April.
The session recording and the slides from the presentation are available at: https://www.ripe.net/membership/meetings/open-house/ripe-ncc-charging-scheme...
At the bottom of this mail you can find the timestamps for the sections of the presentation and Q&A.
We greatly appreciate the input we received from members this week and the constructive nature of the discussions. We encourage you all to continue to discuss the charging scheme on this list.
Kind regards,
Fergal Cunningham Head of Membership Engagement RIPE NCC
Open House Timestamps
01:30 Welcome and Agenda, Fergal Cunningham 04:30 Development and History of the Charging Scheme, Fergal Cunningham 12:45 Consolidation and Inflation, Simon Jan Haytink 19:10 The Work We Need to Fund, Simon Jan Haytink 22:30 Summary and Key Questions, Hans Petter Holen 27:20 Statement from Executive Board Chair, Ond?ej Filip 30:30 Statement from Executive Board Treasurer, Raymond Jetten 32:45 Q&A with RIPE NCC Members
Dear Fergal,
What is the formal process of deciding what options the AGM get to vote at, during the upcoming AGM?
I would like to suggest a Consumer Price Index based re-indexing of the costs, using standard European CPI numbers from Eurostat. We all have to deal with increases in costs due to inflation, and it?s fair that RIPE does not have to fight inflation alone. Yearly inflation as released in March 2024 was at 2.4% ? https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-euro-indicators/w/2-03042024-ap
Best regards, Martin_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/sdy%40a-n-t.ru
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On 11/04/2024, 15:16:25, sdy@a-n-t.ru wrote:
It's wrong model with categories. It do not anything to decide resources deficits. It is strongly must be payment for each assigned deficit resource, like was the land tax in England. Only this way making all NCC equal in their rights, and will return unused resources to NCC.
It would be wrong to base a model on resources being returned so NCC can reissue for free. That is not likely to happen. The holders will slowly release them to the market to avoid a price crash, like housing suppliers do in England. The market price may go down a little but generally there will be an easy supply as there is already. There is no shortage of v4, just a surplus of people wanting them for free. One day as v6 grows they may return v4 that people no longer need. It is likely to be the larger providers that will do that first. Then that charging model will collapse.
WE need to vote at first MUST we pay for each deficit resource or not. And it NEED to take in vote all NCC members!
Be careful what you vote for, if the charge is per v4 then those with the most will want more votes as they paid more and then they can vote themselves a discount for those with lots. brandon
I would like to note this also does not apply to other RIR's as far as i am aware. We should look at a "one-vote per LIR" with a "one lir per company/person", type of setup. (with a "carry over" phase over a few years). Regards On 4/11/24 4:59 PM, Brandon Butterworth wrote:
Be careful what you vote for, if the charge is per v4 then those with the most will want more votes as they paid more and then they can vote themselves a discount for those with lots.
Hi!
Be careful what you vote for, if the charge is per v4 then those with the most will want more votes as they paid more and then they can vote themselves a discount for those with lots.
At first it is need to decide - is it need to everyone pay for deficit resources?! It is the first question. About how much to pay - is the second question. The main idea, that it is MUST vote everybody (at least 75% of LIRs). Not like now, then only 2 thousand 'active' decided question on 20 thousand LIR's life.
On 11/04/2024, 15:16:25, sdy@a-n-t.ru wrote:
It's wrong model with categories. It do not anything to decide resources deficits. It is strongly must be payment for each assigned deficit resource, like was the land tax in England. Only this way making all NCC equal in their rights, and will return unused resources to NCC.
It would be wrong to base a model on resources being returned so NCC can reissue for free. That is not likely to happen. The holders will slowly release them to the market to avoid a price crash, like housing suppliers do in England.
The market price may go down a little but generally there will be an easy supply as there is already.
There is no shortage of v4, just a surplus of people wanting them for free.
One day as v6 grows they may return v4 that people no longer need. It is likely to be the larger providers that will do that first. Then that charging model will collapse.
WE need to vote at first MUST we pay for each deficit resource or not. And it NEED to take in vote all NCC members!
Be careful what you vote for, if the charge is per v4 then those with the most will want more votes as they paid more and then they can vote themselves a discount for those with lots.
brandon
----------------------------- С уважением Сербулов Дмитрий ООО "Альфа Нет Телеком" +7(498)785-8-000 раб. +7(495)940-92-11 доп. +7(925)518-10-69 сот.
*Dear Martin,Yes, indeed, it’s possible for members to propose agenda topics with resolutions to be voted on. The relevant section of the Articles of Association is Art. 15.6, which I copy below. If this is something any of the members wish to use, we can look at providing a mechanism to collect the signatures of those who support a particular agenda topic and resolution proposed by a member. It would need signatures from 2% of members who could potentially vote at the GM. This would be close to 400 (2% of ~20,000 members). I hope this helps.Best regards,Fergal15.6 On the application In Writing of a group of Members who are jointly entitled to cast at least two percent (2%) of the total number of possible votes, other subjects will be added to the agenda. Such an application, accompanied by the verbatim text of the resolutions proposed by the said Members, shall have to be sent to the Executive Board at least two weeks before the Meeting.The Executive Board shall immediately send the verbatim text of the resolutions proposed by the said Members to all the Members of the Association.15.7 The General Meeting may only vote on resolutions with respect to subjects for which the verbatim text of the related proposed resolutions has been sent to the Members in the manner set out above.* On Thu, Apr 11, 2024 at 2:43 PM Martin Millnert < martin.millnert@brainmill.com> wrote:
Dear Fergal,
I don’t envy the challenge of the board with this feedback, but I suspect it is wise to listen to it else the platform for new candidates to the board the next 5 years seems to be pretty straightforward and likely to be elected: Cost reductions.
As a side, doesn’t the articles of association allow for membership organized items for AGM to vote on as well?
Best regards, Martin Millnert
On 10 Apr 2024, at 15:38, Fergal Cunningham <fergalc@ripe.net> wrote:
Dear Martin,
The Executive Board decided on these draft options at its meeting on 25th of March. So now the Board and management will follow the feedback on the draft proposal on the list. They will decide by 24 April if these will be the final options to vote on at the GM or if they want to make amendments. So essentially the decision on what gets voted on at the GM is made by the Board. You can see the minutes from that meeting here (section 3.3 on the Charging Scheme):
https://www.ripe.net/about-us/executive-board/minutes/2024/174th-executive-b...
And it's worth mentioning that this list is for members to discuss the issues while we and the board will listen. But we will of course reply and provide information to address the points raised if at all possible.
All the best, Fergal
On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 2:41 PM <sdy@a-n-t.ru> wrote:
Hi all!
I want to ask add to vote variant D. All as was before+5% inflation and 10E per 1024 addresses IPv4 per year (counting at 31 december). Can we try to vote it too?
On 22 Mar 2024, at 15:27, Fergal Cunningham <fergalc@ripe.net> wrote:
Dear all,
This Wednesday, 20 March, we held an Open House with members about the RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025. There was a presentation from RIPE NCC staff, including our CFO and Managing Director, as well as statements from both the Executive Board Chair and Treasurer.
There was a productive discussion about the financial landscape we are operating in and thoughts about how best to fund the RIPE NCC. The Executive Board will meet on Monday and discuss what we heard this
week,
and they will decide on a draft charging proposal to put forward to the members in April.
The session recording and the slides from the presentation are available at:
https://www.ripe.net/membership/meetings/open-house/ripe-ncc-charging-scheme...
At the bottom of this mail you can find the timestamps for the sections of the presentation and Q&A.
We greatly appreciate the input we received from members this week and the constructive nature of the discussions. We encourage you all to continue to discuss the charging scheme on this list.
Kind regards,
Fergal Cunningham Head of Membership Engagement RIPE NCC
Open House Timestamps
01:30 Welcome and Agenda, Fergal Cunningham 04:30 Development and History of the Charging Scheme, Fergal Cunningham 12:45 Consolidation and Inflation, Simon Jan Haytink 19:10 The Work We Need to Fund, Simon Jan Haytink 22:30 Summary and Key Questions, Hans Petter Holen 27:20 Statement from Executive Board Chair, Ondřej Filip 30:30 Statement from Executive Board Treasurer, Raymond Jetten 32:45 Q&A with RIPE NCC Members
Dear Fergal,
What is the formal process of deciding what options the AGM get to vote at, during the upcoming AGM?
I would like to suggest a Consumer Price Index based re-indexing of the costs, using standard European CPI numbers from Eurostat. We all have to deal with increases in costs due to inflation, and it’s fair that RIPE does not have to fight inflation alone. Yearly inflation as released in March 2024 was at 2.4% —
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-euro-indicators/w/2-03042024-ap
Best regards, Martin_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/sdy%40a-n-t.ru
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Dear Dmytry, That is correct re: the 400 members. The deadline is two weeks before the GM, so 8 May. We can look at how to best do this without the need to have written signatures and postal mail involved - the AoA does not specify “signatures” so we can look at more efficient options. And we’ll also look at the legalities around the resolution and its possible effect on other resolutions. I can get back to you after we’ve done the legal and technical investigations early next week. All the best Fergal On Fri, Apr 12, 2024 at 2:33 PM Dmitry Kohmanyuk <dk@hostmaster.ua> wrote:
Thanks Fergal for the answer. So we need to collect around 400 signatures of LIRs to have new resolution(s) added to the voting roster?
Can you please calculate the deadline, and confirm whether such signatures have to be on paper or would an electronic one suffice? (Remember, mail from countries like Ukraine can take a month.)
Likewise, does the new text have to be printed or can the email be used instead?
Last one, what about the “relative” resolution which reuses the text of another? Can such one be used, and if it would be added at the end, would essentially make it impossible to win?
If board puts its resolutions first, community submitted ones cannot ever win, by mere order, unless the text would read:
“The membership hereby annuls and voids results of the resolution with text (A/B/C) above YES/NO”
On 12 Apr 2024, at 14:06, Fergal Cunningham <fergalc@ripe.net> wrote:
*Dear Martin,Yes, indeed, it’s possible for members to propose agenda topics with resolutions to be voted on. The relevant section of the Articles of Association is Art. 15.6, which I copy below. If this is something any of the members wish to use, we can look at providing a mechanism to collect the signatures of those who support a particular agenda topic and resolution proposed by a member. It would need signatures from 2% of members who could potentially vote at the GM. This would be close to 400 (2% of ~20,000 members). I hope this helps.Best regards,Fergal15.6 On the application In Writing of a group of Members who are jointly entitled to cast at least two percent (2%) of the total number of possible votes, other subjects will be added to the agenda. Such an application, accompanied by the verbatim text of the resolutions proposed by the said Members, shall have to be sent to the Executive Board at least two weeks before the Meeting.The Executive Board shall immediately send the verbatim text of the resolutions proposed by the said Members to all the Members of the Association.15.7 The General Meeting may only vote on resolutions with respect to subjects for which the verbatim text of the related proposed resolutions has been sent to the Members in the manner set out above.*
On Thu, Apr 11, 2024 at 2:43 PM Martin Millnert < martin.millnert@brainmill.com> wrote:
Dear Fergal,
I don’t envy the challenge of the board with this feedback, but I suspect it is wise to listen to it else the platform for new candidates to the board the next 5 years seems to be pretty straightforward and likely to be elected: Cost reductions.
As a side, doesn’t the articles of association allow for membership organized items for AGM to vote on as well?
Best regards, Martin Millnert
On 10 Apr 2024, at 15:38, Fergal Cunningham <fergalc@ripe.net> wrote:
Dear Martin,
The Executive Board decided on these draft options at its meeting on 25th of March. So now the Board and management will follow the feedback on the draft proposal on the list. They will decide by 24 April if these will be the final options to vote on at the GM or if they want to make amendments. So essentially the decision on what gets voted on at the GM is made by the Board. You can see the minutes from that meeting here (section 3.3 on the Charging Scheme):
https://www.ripe.net/about-us/executive-board/minutes/2024/174th-executive-b...
And it's worth mentioning that this list is for members to discuss the issues while we and the board will listen. But we will of course reply and provide information to address the points raised if at all possible.
All the best, Fergal
On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 2:41 PM <sdy@a-n-t.ru> wrote:
Hi all!
I want to ask add to vote variant D. All as was before+5% inflation and 10E per 1024 addresses IPv4 per year (counting at 31 december). Can we try to vote it too?
On 22 Mar 2024, at 15:27, Fergal Cunningham <fergalc@ripe.net> wrote:
Dear all,
This Wednesday, 20 March, we held an Open House with members about the RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025. There was a presentation from RIPE NCC staff, including our CFO and Managing Director, as well as statements from both the Executive Board Chair and Treasurer.
There was a productive discussion about the financial landscape we are operating in and thoughts about how best to fund the RIPE NCC. The Executive Board will meet on Monday and discuss what we heard this
and they will decide on a draft charging proposal to put forward to
members in April.
The session recording and the slides from the presentation are available at:
https://www.ripe.net/membership/meetings/open-house/ripe-ncc-charging-scheme...
At the bottom of this mail you can find the timestamps for the
week, the sections
of the presentation and Q&A.
We greatly appreciate the input we received from members this week and the constructive nature of the discussions. We encourage you all to continue to discuss the charging scheme on this list.
Kind regards,
Fergal Cunningham Head of Membership Engagement RIPE NCC
Open House Timestamps
01:30 Welcome and Agenda, Fergal Cunningham 04:30 Development and History of the Charging Scheme, Fergal Cunningham 12:45 Consolidation and Inflation, Simon Jan Haytink 19:10 The Work We Need to Fund, Simon Jan Haytink 22:30 Summary and Key Questions, Hans Petter Holen 27:20 Statement from Executive Board Chair, Ondřej Filip 30:30 Statement from Executive Board Treasurer, Raymond Jetten 32:45 Q&A with RIPE NCC Members
Dear Fergal,
What is the formal process of deciding what options the AGM get to vote at, during the upcoming AGM?
I would like to suggest a Consumer Price Index based re-indexing of the costs, using standard European CPI numbers from Eurostat. We all have to deal with increases in costs due to inflation, and it’s fair that RIPE does not have to fight inflation alone. Yearly inflation as released in March 2024 was at 2.4% —
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-euro-indicators/w/2-03042024-ap
Best regards, Martin_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/sdy%40a-n-t.ru
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To whom it may concern, We much appreciate if you could please exclude payables@wintermute.tech<mailto:payables@wintermute.tech> from your mail list and RIPE discussions. This email address is only for receiving invoices for Wintermute Technologies ehf. Thanks in advance. Regards, [signature_1516398773] Payables Wintermute e payables@wintermute.tech<mailto:payables@wintermute.tech> From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Martin Millnert via members-discuss <members-discuss@ripe.net> Reply to: Martin Millnert <martin.millnert@brainmill.com> Date: Wednesday, 10 April 2024 at 14:17 To: Fergal Cunningham <fergalc@ripe.net> Cc: "members-discuss@ripe.net" <members-discuss@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025 Open House: Recording and Slides Available On 22 Mar 2024, at 15:27, Fergal Cunningham <fergalc@ripe.net> wrote: Dear all, This Wednesday, 20 March, we held an Open House with members about the RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025. There was a presentation from RIPE NCC staff, including our CFO and Managing Director, as well as statements from both the Executive Board Chair and Treasurer. There was a productive discussion about the financial landscape we are operating in and thoughts about how best to fund the RIPE NCC. The Executive Board will meet on Monday and discuss what we heard this week, and they will decide on a draft charging proposal to put forward to the members in April. The session recording and the slides from the presentation are available at: https://www.ripe.net/membership/meetings/open-house/ripe-ncc-charging-scheme... At the bottom of this mail you can find the timestamps for the sections of the presentation and Q&A. We greatly appreciate the input we received from members this week and the constructive nature of the discussions. We encourage you all to continue to discuss the charging scheme on this list. Kind regards, Fergal Cunningham Head of Membership Engagement RIPE NCC Open House Timestamps 01:30 Welcome and Agenda, Fergal Cunningham 04:30 Development and History of the Charging Scheme, Fergal Cunningham 12:45 Consolidation and Inflation, Simon Jan Haytink 19:10 The Work We Need to Fund, Simon Jan Haytink 22:30 Summary and Key Questions, Hans Petter Holen 27:20 Statement from Executive Board Chair, Ondřej Filip 30:30 Statement from Executive Board Treasurer, Raymond Jetten 32:45 Q&A with RIPE NCC Members Dear Fergal, What is the formal process of deciding what options the AGM get to vote at, during the upcoming AGM? I would like to suggest a Consumer Price Index based re-indexing of the costs, using standard European CPI numbers from Eurostat. We all have to deal with increases in costs due to inflation, and it’s fair that RIPE does not have to fight inflation alone. Yearly inflation as released in March 2024 was at 2.4% — https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-euro-indicators/w/2-03042024-ap Best regards, Martin
participants (17)
-
airmax.ge＠yahoo.com -
Blake Shepherd -
Brandon Butterworth -
Daniel Pearson -
Denis Fondras - Liopen -
Dmitry Kohmanyuk -
Fergal Cunningham -
ivaylo -
m.terzioglu＠prebits.de -
Martin Millnert -
Michele Neylon - Blacknight -
Patrick Velder -
Payables - Wintermute -
ROSKOMNADZOR LIMITED -
sdy＠a-n-t.ru -
Sebastian-Wilhelm Graf -
Sebastien Brossier