So the 2x/24 owner pays 100€ and the /23 owner 50€?

That's a bad idea and if I remember right, we have already voted against such a model in the past.

Sent from Nine
Von: m.terzioglu@prebits.de
Gesendet: Freitag, 12. April 2024 09:15
An: 'Daniel Pearson'; members-discuss@ripe.net
Betreff: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025 Open House: Recording and Slides Available

Hello,

I think the financing of the stuff is not problem. The problem is, unfair charging scheme proposals. The actual proposals try to punish the small LIRs and and make them pay for big LIRs. I dont have statistic about this but, in this charging scheme the small LIRs pay for large LIRs and they make profit from it...

My opinion is, that there should be 3 different fee.

- LIR fee same for all, a small fee for organizational costs (for ex. 400 EUR)
- resource holding fee depending on the amount of allocation available again for organizational costs (Graduated price may be)
- allocation fee, also for every allocation (50-75€ again)

Of course 10 minute thinking would not work but the advised proposals arent for a non-profit organization members usable... not for the gains..

Someone with 1 allocation should pay 1850€ and someone who have 44 allocation should pay 4000€... The right one makes more organizational costs but the left one pays for him..

If RIPE is a non-profit organisation, like State, and if we compare the resources with properties, they should be handeled and calculated like this. A small county proterty should not pay unproportional as a complete city property with thousends of houses...

But the problem is, that big LIRs trying to make easier for themselves and let the smaller LIRs pay for them..

"non-profit organisation" is important argument. If they organize the internet, they should gain all the people or providers ...

In the new global century, we are living the stone age unfortunately...



--
Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best Regards

Murat TERZIOGLU
PREBITS

Bochumer Str. 20
44866 Bochum
Deutschland

Telefon: 0234/58825994
Telefax: 0234/58825995

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USt-ID: DE315418902


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> Im Auftrag von Daniel Pearson
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. April 2024 17:01
An: members-discuss@ripe.net
Betreff: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025 Open House: Recording and Slides Available

Your argument is flawed.

"in the end will left 2k-3k members (levels around 2005)"

If we have 2k-3k members, then RIPE absolutely does not need 200 employees to manage those few members and it does not need a 41 million dollar budget...

On 4/11/24 9:53 AM, ivaylo wrote:
>
>> Sorry, it is already was discussed.
>> It's wrong model with categories. ...
>
> So all other RIRs are wrong ? Only RIPE is on the right road ?
>
> From what I see "Alpha Net Telecom" still do not have IPV6 (why?) and
> your company holds sumary less of 2 x /19 IPV4 blocks so ...
>
> I wrote about my calculation (based on IANA resources delegated to
> RIPE) for charging scheme a week ago: Your company will pay 1500 euro
> / year and RIPE bugdet will be up to 64M - sustainable for the next 10
> years. So why you lobbing for something worse for you ?
>
> Let me tell you what will happen if we keep going with the flat fee
> for all... Merging Merging Merging in the end will left 2k-3k members
> (levels around 2005). You will be pay then 21 000 Euro and your
> resources will be still same. When 10 other LIRs are merged each of
> them will pay 2k again and will have same resources. how it sounds to
> you ? What you will say then in that future moment ? Do you think you
> can make a change in RIPE charging scheme _THEN_ (when all will waht
> to keep going with the flat model) ?
>
>
> Ivaylo Josifov
> VarnaIX / Varteh LTD
> +359 52 969393
> Varna, Bulgaria
>
>
> On Thu, 11 Apr 2024, sdy@a-n-t.ru wrote:
>
>> Sorry, it is already was discussed.
>> It's wrong model with categories. It do not anything to decide
>> resources deficits.
>> It is strongly must be payment for each assigned deficit resource,
>> like was the land tax in England. Only this way making all NCC equal
>> in their rights, and will return unused resources to NCC.
>>
>> WE need to vote at first MUST we pay for each deficit resource or
>> not. And it NEED to take in vote all NCC members!
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> i dont understand, why RIPE try to punish the small providers, as a
>>> non-profit organisation. They are trying to punish the small
>>> providers and strengthen or favor big proividers.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> There are thousends of solution advices from members as i see. Many
>>> good offers but also examples from other RIRs. Why still try to
>>> monopolize the sector by doing this.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For example:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> IPv4 = IPv4 Allocations /24
>>>
>>> MF = Yearly Fee
>>>
>>> AF = Allocation Fee
>>>
>>> PR = Percentage of the Yearly Fee to the Allocation Fee
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> IPv4 MF AF
>>> PR
>>>
>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> 16384 1.875 1.228.800 %0,15
>>>
>>> 4096 1.875 307.200
>>> %0,6
>>>
>>> 256 1.875 19.200
>>> %9,7
>>>
>>> 16 1.875 1.200
>>> %156
>>>
>>> 1 1.875 75
>>> %2500
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> All the adviced models are very similar and as you can see, for the
>>> smaller providers it is so dependant.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> And another point is, that the adviced schemes are almost identical.
>>> What
>>> should be chosen, i am not sure.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If needed, surely can be found many solution variations, and i am
>>> sure better than adviced schemes.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Instead of monopolizing the big providers, by advicing
>>> consolidation, you should provide some relif for small providers.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> And in all the adviced schemes the Yaerly Fee for every LIR account
>>> is too
>>> much for small providers?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mit freundlichen Gr??en / Best Regards
>>>
>>> Murat TERZIOGLU
>>> PREBITS
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Bochumer Str. 20
>>>
>>> 44866 Bochum
>>>
>>> Deutschland
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Telefon: 0234/58825994
>>>
>>> Telefax: 0234/58825995
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <http://www.prebits.de/> www.prebits.de
>>>
>>> <mailto:info@prebits.de> info@prebits.de
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> USt-ID: DE315418902
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Von: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> Im Auftrag von
>>> Martin Millnert via members-discuss
>>> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. April 2024 14:43
>>> An: Fergal Cunningham <fergalc@ripe.net>
>>> Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net
>>> Betreff: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025 Open
>>> House:
>>> Recording and Slides Available
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear Fergal,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I don?t envy the challenge of the board with this feedback, but I
>>> suspect
>>> it is wise to listen to it else the platform for new candidates to the
>>> board the next 5 years seems to be pretty straightforward and likely
>>> to be
>>> elected: Cost reductions.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> As a side, doesn?t the articles of association allow for membership
>>> organized items for AGM to vote on as well?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Martin Millnert
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10 Apr 2024, at 15:38, Fergal Cunningham <fergalc@ripe.net
>>> <mailto:fergalc@ripe.net> > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear Martin,
>>>
>>> The Executive Board decided on these draft options at its meeting on
>>> 25th
>>> of March. So now the Board and management will follow the feedback
>>> on the
>>> draft proposal on the list. They will decide by 24 April if these
>>> will be
>>> the final options to vote on at the GM or if they want to make
>>> amendments.
>>> So essentially the decision on what gets voted on at the GM is made
>>> by the
>>> Board. You can see the minutes from that meeting here (section 3.3
>>> on the
>>> Charging Scheme):
>>> https://www.ripe.net/about-us/executive-board/minutes/2024/174th-executive-board-meeting-minutes/
>>>
>>>
>>> And it's worth mentioning that this list is for members to discuss the
>>> issues while we and the board will listen. But we will of course
>>> reply and
>>> provide information to address the points raised if at all possible.
>>>
>>> All the best,
>>> Fergal
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 2:41?PM <sdy@a-n-t.ru <mailto:sdy@a-n-t.ru> >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all!
>>>
>>> I want to ask add to vote variant D.
>>> All as was before+5% inflation and 10E per 1024 addresses IPv4 per year
>>> (counting at 31 december). Can we try to vote it too?
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 22 Mar 2024, at 15:27, Fergal Cunningham <fergalc@ripe.net
>>>>> <mailto:fergalc@ripe.net> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>
>>>>> This Wednesday, 20 March, we held an Open House with members about
>>>>> the
>>>>> RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025. There was a presentation from RIPE NCC
>>>>> staff, including our CFO and Managing Director, as well as statements
>>>>> from both the Executive Board Chair and Treasurer.
>>>>>
>>>>> There was a productive discussion about the financial landscape we
>>>>> are
>>>>> operating in and thoughts about how best to fund the RIPE NCC. The
>>>>> Executive Board will meet on Monday and discuss what we heard this
>>>>> week,
>>>>> and they will decide on a draft charging proposal to put forward
>>>>> to the
>>>>> members in April.
>>>>>
>>>>> The session recording and the slides from the presentation are
>>>>> available
>>>>> at:
>>>>> https://www.ripe.net/membership/meetings/open-house/ripe-ncc-charging-scheme-2025/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> At the bottom of this mail you can find the timestamps for the
>>>>> sections
>>>>> of the presentation and Q&A.
>>>>>
>>>>> We greatly appreciate the input we received from members this week
>>>>> and
>>>>> the constructive nature of the discussions. We encourage you all to
>>>>> continue to discuss the charging scheme on this list.
>>>>>
>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Fergal Cunningham
>>>>> Head of Membership Engagement
>>>>> RIPE NCC
>>>>>
>>>>> Open House Timestamps
>>>>>
>>>>> 01:30 Welcome and Agenda, Fergal Cunningham
>>>>> 04:30 Development and History of the Charging Scheme, Fergal
>>>>> Cunningham
>>>>> 12:45 Consolidation and Inflation, Simon Jan Haytink
>>>>> 19:10 The Work We Need to Fund, Simon Jan Haytink
>>>>> 22:30 Summary and Key Questions, Hans Petter Holen
>>>>> 27:20 Statement from Executive Board Chair, Ond?ej Filip
>>>>> 30:30 Statement from Executive Board Treasurer, Raymond Jetten
>>>>> 32:45 Q&A with RIPE NCC Members
>>>>
>>>> Dear Fergal,
>>>>
>>>> What is the formal process of deciding what options the AGM get to
>>>> vote
>>>> at, during the upcoming AGM?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I would like to suggest a Consumer Price Index based re-indexing of
>>>> the
>>>> costs, using standard European CPI numbers from Eurostat. We all have
>>>> to
>>>> deal with increases in costs due to inflation, and it?s fair that RIPE
>>>> does not have to fight inflation alone. Yearly inflation as
>>>> released in
>>>> March 2024 was at 2.4% ?
>>>> https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-euro-indicators/w/2-03042024-ap
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> Martin_______________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
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