Dear RIPE community and RIPE NCC members: You may be well aware of RIPE NCC management's refusal to acknowledge the serious governance issue in AFRINIC and the fact that the management keeps involving itself closely with governmental bodies, ever since the miscarriage of their NRO letter to make AFRINIC a specialized agency of United Nations. Recently, during the ITU Conference, it is said that the RIPE NCC management team seemed to have approached the American government and European Union government as a means to interfere with the ongoing matters. As someone who has had engaged closely with the community for many years, I believe it is of utmost importance for the community to be aware of the seriousness of the matter, and a frank discussion is more than necessary in the upcoming RIPE meeting. For RIPE NCC to make their case of seems deep interference with government and for me to exchange with the community any views and differences. My dispute with AFRINIC (despite it is sub-judice), is essentially a "policy dispute" between members of RIR and the RIR management. Court pocceding is also part of bottom up community driven process when the dispute can not be resolved amicably. However, NRO's request to make RIR an ITU-like body, and RIPE NCC's apparent consistent engagement with government officials to interfere in the matter, I think it is high time for the community to be aware of, discuss and decide whether such involvement is proper in a community driven, bottom-up registry who has been independent of governmental influences for more than three decades I have submitted an lighting talk for the plenary and got rejected. I have attached the rejection letter here for your perusal. It is disconcerting to me because the matter is of utmost urgency and importance for the community and the RIR system. The purpose of the current letter is to re-state my intention of an open, frank, heart-to-heart discussion with the community. I will appreciate if any working group chair can pick up the subject and do an BoF during the working group sessions. I believe the graveness of the issue requires such a discussion - transparency and accountability are the two core values of this community. Here is the letter I received: Dear Lu Heng, We regret to inform you that your Lightning Talk submission for RIPE 85 titled 'A difficult reality' has not been accepted into the Plenary session.
From the PC's perspective the presentation does not fit the RIPE plenary. If your submission refers to the role of the RIPE NCC, then we suggest the NCC Services WG as the appropriate venue to start this discussion.
If you want to have a discussion about the RIPE community as a policy making body, then we feel the RIPE community plenary is the right place to go. Thank you, Franziska Lichtblau on behalf of the Programme Committee My reply: Hi The presentation is about ripe community’s view on current actions taken by NRO and RIPE NCC. The matter is extremely serious and I believe ripe community should be aware. And yes, this is about where boundaries of ripe community policy making and how many people should be aware and participate community. I feel current ripe community is not truly inclusive enough for every internet user aware. I think best we have a frank discussion and inform the community, rather have me go to some channels of communication, and community might feel not informed and asking why. And THIS IS REALLY NOT ABOUT NCC SERVICE. If PC have future questions welcome to send me zoom link to discuss. Lu Heng Chief Executive Officer LARUS Limited Email H.Lu@LARUS.netmailto:a.yan@outsideheaven.com Office tel:+852+29888918 Address A3, 11/F, TML Tower, Tsuen Wan, N.T, Hong Kong SAR Website: LARUS.net This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.
Dear all, Lu says that it is “high time for the community to be aware of, discuss and decide whether such involvement is proper in a community-driven, bottom-up registry who has been independent of governmental influences for more than three decades.” I want to make clear that this statement does not reflect reality and that I also welcome input from our membership and community on this matter. I understand from his emails that Lu sees our interactions with governments as potentially leading to a change in the nature of the RIR system that may weaken our long-established community-based governance processes. In fact, the opposite is true. We have made serious efforts over the years to explain why we interact with governments, and we have been very open about those interactions. I will go further and say that our long-standing and productive relationships with governments throughout our service region have been an important factor in maintaining the current RIR system and mitigating threats to that system. The message we have always put to governments is that the current system works well and that it should not be changed. We also make it clear that we welcome participation from governments as key Internet stakeholders. So while Lu might see our government interactions as something to be suspicious of, I take a different view. If we do not involve governments in our community, they will be more likely to act without reference to the experience and knowledge of our community. We are also open about our interactions with both governments and the ITU. Just last week, we published a detailed article about our work at the recent ITU Plenipotentiary in Romania[1]. And for the sake of clarity, I will confirm that at the ITU meeting, we were approached by a Dutch government representative who invited US and UK government representatives to discuss the AFRINIC situation. At that meeting, I introduced them to the AFRINIC CEO, and he gave an update. I do not think that this was inappropriate or should come as a surprise. The RIPE NCC position on this is still the same as we published last year[2]. This week, we will present on our recent interactions at the ITU and UN developments during the Cooperation Working Group at RIPE 85[3]. Submitting such a talk at a RIPE Meeting is a strong signal that we are more than willing to discuss our interactions with governments in open forums in order to make sure that our work in this area is as transparent as possible. And I reiterate that our goal has always been to ensure governments make decisions based on the facts, and our underlying message is that the current RIR system works well and is worth maintaining. Regards, Hans Petter Holen Managing Director RIPE NCC [1] https://labs.ripe.net/author/suzanne_taylor_muzzin/reflections-on-the-itu-pl... <https://labs.ripe.net/author/suzanne_taylor_muzzin/reflections-on-the-itu-plenipotentiary-conference-2022/> [2] https://labs.ripe.net/author/hans_petter_holen/supporting-the-internet-numbe... <https://labs.ripe.net/author/hans_petter_holen/supporting-the-internet-number-registry-system/> [3] https://ripe85.ripe.net/programme/meeting-plan/coop-wg/ <https://ripe85.ripe.net/programme/meeting-plan/coop-wg/>
On 21 Oct 2022, at 15:32, Lu Heng <h.lu@larus.net> wrote:
Dear RIPE community and RIPE NCC members:
You may be well aware of RIPE NCC management's refusal to acknowledge the serious governance issue in AFRINIC and the fact that the management keeps involving itself closely with governmental bodies, ever since the miscarriage of their NRO letter to make AFRINIC a specialized agency of United Nations.
Recently, during the ITU Conference, it is said that the RIPE NCC management team seemed to have approached the American government and European Union government as a means to interfere with the ongoing matters.
As someone who has had engaged closely with the community for many years, I believe it is of utmost importance for the community to be aware of the seriousness of the matter, and a frank discussion is more than necessary in the upcoming RIPE meeting.
For RIPE NCC to make their case of seems deep interference with government and for me to exchange with the community any views and differences.
My dispute with AFRINIC (despite it is sub-judice), is essentially a "policy dispute" between members of RIR and the RIR management. Court pocceding is also part of bottom up community driven process when the dispute can not be resolved amicably.
However, NRO's request to make RIR an ITU-like body, and RIPE NCC's apparent consistent engagement with government officials to interfere in the matter, I think it is high time for the community to be aware of, discuss and decide whether such involvement is proper in a community driven, bottom-up registry who has been independent of governmental influences for more than three decades
I have submitted an lighting talk for the plenary and got rejected. I have attached the rejection letter here for your perusal. It is disconcerting to me because the matter is of utmost urgency and importance for the community and the RIR system.
The purpose of the current letter is to re-state my intention of an open, frank, heart-to-heart discussion with the community. I will appreciate if any working group chair can pick up the subject and do an BoF during the working group sessions.
I believe the graveness of the issue requires such a discussion - transparency and accountability are the two core values of this community.
Here is the letter I received:
Dear Lu Heng,
We regret to inform you that your Lightning Talk submission for RIPE 85 titled 'A difficult reality' has not been accepted into the Plenary session.
From the PC's perspective the presentation does not fit the RIPE plenary. If your submission refers to the role of the RIPE NCC, then we suggest the NCC Services WG as the appropriate venue to start this discussion. If you want to have a discussion about the RIPE community as a policy making body, then we feel the RIPE community plenary is the right place to go.
Thank you, Franziska Lichtblau on behalf of the Programme Committee
My reply:
Hi
The presentation is about ripe community’s view on current actions taken by NRO and RIPE NCC.
The matter is extremely serious and I believe ripe community should be aware.
And yes, this is about where boundaries of ripe community policy making and how many people should be aware and participate community.
I feel current ripe community is not truly inclusive enough for every internet user aware.
I think best we have a frank discussion and inform the community, rather have me go to some channels of communication, and community might feel not informed and asking why.
And THIS IS REALLY NOT ABOUT NCC SERVICE.
If PC have future questions welcome to send me zoom link to discuss.
Lu Heng Chief Executive Officer LARUS Limited
Email H.Lu@LARUS.net <mailto:a.yan@outsideheaven.com> Office +852 2988 8918 <tel:+852+29888918> Address A3, 11/F, TML Tower, Tsuen Wan, N.T, Hong Kong SAR Website: LARUS.net This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.
_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/hph%40ripe.net
Hi Hans: Your email below does not deal with the issue of why an RIR attempted to appoint ATU members as directors or why AFRINIC applied to be specialised agency of United Nations in an attempt to gain diplomatic immunity. This is imposing government control over an RIR. Your email below is designed to confuse. I am not saying RIR community should not engagement government, in fact, government is part of the community in the muti-stake holder model which I support. The only body to ask for government control have been RIR's. The issue is very simple, once it was revealed what AFRINIC was attempting to hand control over to governments, the issue was exposed exposed and unfortunately the community has not had a satisfactory response why this was done. As you have been unable or unwilling to answer the simple point of why RIR's themselves have asked to hand control over to governments and specifically: a) why did AFRINIC attempt to appoint intra-governmental representatives to their board b) why did RIR CEO's attempt to claim diplomatic immunity. We know that the RIR's attempted to conceal these actions so I accept the questions and answers maybe difficult, but the community needs answers. Now is a good opportunity for the discussion these matters. Lu Heng Chief Executive Officer LARUS Limited Email H.Lu@LARUS.netmailto:a.yan@outsideheaven.com Office tel:+852+29888918 Address A3, 11/F, TML Tower, Tsuen Wan, N.T, Hong Kong SAR Website: LARUS.net This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. ---- On Tue, 25 Oct 2022 20:56:34 +0800 Hans Petter Holen <hph@ripe.net> wrote --- Dear all, Lu says that it is “high time for the community to be aware of, discuss and decide whether such involvement is proper in a community-driven, bottom-up registry who has been independent of governmental influences for more than three decades.” I want to make clear that this statement does not reflect reality and that I also welcome input from our membership and community on this matter. I understand from his emails that Lu sees our interactions with governments as potentially leading to a change in the nature of the RIR system that may weaken our long-established community-based governance processes. In fact, the opposite is true. We have made serious efforts over the years to explain why we interact with governments, and we have been very open about those interactions. I will go further and say that our long-standing and productive relationships with governments throughout our service region have been an important factor in maintaining the current RIR system and mitigating threats to that system. The message we have always put to governments is that the current system works well and that it should not be changed. We also make it clear that we welcome participation from governments as key Internet stakeholders. So while Lu might see our government interactions as something to be suspicious of, I take a different view. If we do not involve governments in our community, they will be more likely to act without reference to the experience and knowledge of our community. We are also open about our interactions with both governments and the ITU. Just last week, we published a detailed article about our work at the recent ITU Plenipotentiary in Romania[1]. And for the sake of clarity, I will confirm that at the ITU meeting, we were approached by a Dutch government representative who invited US and UK government representatives to discuss the AFRINIC situation. At that meeting, I introduced them to the AFRINIC CEO, and he gave an update. I do not think that this was inappropriate or should come as a surprise. The RIPE NCC position on this is still the same as we published last year[2]. This week, we will present on our recent interactions at the ITU and UN developments during the Cooperation Working Group at RIPE 85[3]. Submitting such a talk at a RIPE Meeting is a strong signal that we are more than willing to discuss our interactions with governments in open forums in order to make sure that our work in this area is as transparent as possible. And I reiterate that our goal has always been to ensure governments make decisions based on the facts, and our underlying message is that the current RIR system works well and is worth maintaining. Regards, Hans Petter Holen Managing Director RIPE NCC [1]https://labs.ripe.net/author/suzanne_taylor_muzzin/reflections-on-the-itu-pl... [2] https://labs.ripe.net/author/hans_petter_holen/supporting-the-internet-numbe... [3] https://ripe85.ripe.net/programme/meeting-plan/coop-wg/ On 21 Oct 2022, at 15:32, Lu Heng <mailto:h.lu@larus.net> wrote: Dear RIPE community and RIPE NCC members: You may be well aware of RIPE NCC management's refusal to acknowledge the serious governance issue in AFRINIC and the fact that the management keeps involving itself closely with governmental bodies, ever since the miscarriage of their NRO letter to make AFRINIC a specialized agency of United Nations. Recently, during the ITU Conference, it is said that the RIPE NCC management team seemed to have approached the American government and European Union government as a means to interfere with the ongoing matters. As someone who has had engaged closely with the community for many years, I believe it is of utmost importance for the community to be aware of the seriousness of the matter, and a frank discussion is more than necessary in the upcoming RIPE meeting. For RIPE NCC to make their case of seems deep interference with government and for me to exchange with the community any views and differences. My dispute with AFRINIC (despite it is sub-judice), is essentially a "policy dispute" between members of RIR and the RIR management. Court pocceding is also part of bottom up community driven process when the dispute can not be resolved amicably. However, NRO's request to make RIR an ITU-like body, and RIPE NCC's apparent consistent engagement with government officials to interfere in the matter, I think it is high time for the community to be aware of, discuss and decide whether such involvement is proper in a community driven, bottom-up registry who has been independent of governmental influences for more than three decades I have submitted an lighting talk for the plenary and got rejected. I have attached the rejection letter here for your perusal. It is disconcerting to me because the matter is of utmost urgency and importance for the community and the RIR system. The purpose of the current letter is to re-state my intention of an open, frank, heart-to-heart discussion with the community. I will appreciate if any working group chair can pick up the subject and do an BoF during the working group sessions. I believe the graveness of the issue requires such a discussion - transparency and accountability are the two core values of this community. Here is the letter I received: Dear Lu Heng, We regret to inform you that your Lightning Talk submission for RIPE 85 titled 'A difficult reality' has not been accepted into the Plenary session.
From the PC's perspective the presentation does not fit the RIPE plenary. If your submission refers to the role of the RIPE NCC, then we suggest the NCC Services WG as the appropriate venue to start this discussion.
If you want to have a discussion about the RIPE community as a policy making body, then we feel the RIPE community plenary is the right place to go. Thank you, Franziska Lichtblau on behalf of the Programme Committee My reply: Hi The presentation is about ripe community’s view on current actions taken by NRO and RIPE NCC. The matter is extremely serious and I believe ripe community should be aware. And yes, this is about where boundaries of ripe community policy making and how many people should be aware and participate community. I feel current ripe community is not truly inclusive enough for every internet user aware. I think best we have a frank discussion and inform the community, rather have me go to some channels of communication, and community might feel not informed and asking why. And THIS IS REALLY NOT ABOUT NCC SERVICE. If PC have future questions welcome to send me zoom link to discuss. Lu Heng Chief Executive Officer LARUS Limited Email mailto:H.Lu@LARUS.netmailto:a.yan@outsideheaven.com Office tel:+852+29888918 Address A3, 11/F, TML Tower, Tsuen Wan, N.T, Hong Kong SAR Website: http://LARUS.net This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/hph%40ripe.net
Hans Petter, thanks for this update from your side. However, I'm a bit puzzled about this section: On Tue, Oct 25, 2022 at 6:12 AM Hans Petter Holen <hph@ripe.net> wrote:
[...]
We are also open about our interactions with both governments and the ITU.
Just last week, we published a detailed article about our work at the recent ITU Plenipotentiary in Romania[1]. And for the sake of clarity, I will confirm that at the ITU meeting, we were approached by a Dutch government representative who invited US and UK government representatives to discuss the AFRINIC situation. At that meeting, I introduced them to the AFRINIC CEO, and he gave an update. I do not think that this was inappropriate or should come as a surprise. The RIPE NCC position on this is still the same as we published last year[2]. [...]
I thought that the RIPE wanted to mostly stay out of this matter, but you introduce the government representatives (which approached you) to the AFRINIC "CEO" - which is one of the main party of the dispute to give him a chance to present his side without the other side present. This sounds to me as a very bad move. I would have rather seen if you would have given a mostly neutral update with the claims from both sides. (I'm also putting "CEO" in quotes as I thought that at this time, he was practically suspended in his function by court order. But might be wrong there) Curious on what I'm missing here to understand your actions. Regards, Martin Winter
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 Dear Hans, Please be transparent with the community and please share with us all the full names of the Dutch, US and UK government representatives that you referred to. Kind Regards, El'ad ------- Original Message ------- On Tuesday, October 25th, 2022 at 3:56 PM, Hans Petter Holen <hph@ripe.net> wrote:
Dear all,
Lu says that it is “high time for the community to be aware of, discuss and decide whether such involvement is proper in a community-driven, bottom-up registry who has been independent of governmental influences for more than three decades.” I want to make clear that this statement does not reflect reality and that I also welcome input from our membership and community on this matter.
I understand from his emails that Lu sees our interactions with governments as potentially leading to a change in the nature of the RIR system that may weaken our long-established community-based governance processes. In fact, the opposite is true.
We have made serious efforts over the years to explain why we interact with governments, and we have been very open about those interactions. I will go further and say that our long-standing and productive relationships with governments throughout our service region have been an important factor in maintaining the current RIR system and mitigating threats to that system.
The message we have always put to governments is that the current system works well and that it should not be changed. We also make it clear that we welcome participation from governments as key Internet stakeholders. So while Lu might see our government interactions as something to be suspicious of, I take a different view. If we do not involve governments in our community, they will be more likely to act without reference to the experience and knowledge of our community.
We are also open about our interactions with both governments and the ITU. Just last week, we published a detailed article about our work at the recent ITU Plenipotentiary in Romania[1]. And for the sake of clarity, I will confirm that at the ITU meeting, we were approached by a Dutch government representative who invited US and UK government representatives to discuss the AFRINIC situation. At that meeting, I introduced them to the AFRINIC CEO, and he gave an update. I do not think that this was inappropriate or should come as a surprise. The RIPE NCC position on this is still the same as we published last year[2].
This week, we will present on our recent interactions at the ITU and UN developments during the Cooperation Working Group at RIPE 85[3]. Submitting such a talk at a RIPE Meeting is a strong signal that we are more than willing to discuss our interactions with governments in open forums in order to make sure that our work in this area is as transparent as possible. And I reiterate that our goal has always been to ensure governments make decisions based on the facts, and our underlying message is that the current RIR system works well and is worth maintaining.
Regards,
Hans Petter Holen Managing Director RIPE NCC
[1] https://labs.ripe.net/author/suzanne_taylor_muzzin/reflections-on-the-itu-pl... [2] https://labs.ripe.net/author/hans_petter_holen/supporting-the-internet-numbe... [3] https://ripe85.ripe.net/programme/meeting-plan/coop-wg/
On 21 Oct 2022, at 15:32, Lu Heng <h.lu@larus.net> wrote:
Dear RIPE community and RIPE NCC members:
You may be well aware of RIPE NCC management's refusal to acknowledge the serious governance issue in AFRINIC and the fact that the management keeps involving itself closely with governmental bodies, ever since the miscarriage of their NRO letter to make AFRINIC a specialized agency of United Nations. Recently, during the ITU Conference, it is said that the RIPE NCC management team seemed to have approached the American government and European Union government as a means to interfere with the ongoing matters. As someone who has had engaged closely with the community for many years, I believe it is of utmost importance for the community to be aware of the seriousness of the matter, and a frank discussion is more than necessary in the upcoming RIPE meeting.
For RIPE NCC to make their case of seems deep interference with government and for me to exchange with the community any views and differences. My dispute with AFRINIC (despite it is sub-judice), is essentially a "policy dispute" between members of RIR and the RIR management. Court pocceding is also part of bottom up community driven process when the dispute can not be resolved amicably. However, NRO's request to make RIR an ITU-like body, and RIPE NCC's apparent consistent engagement with government officials to interfere in the matter, I think it is high time for the community to be aware of, discuss and decide whether such involvement is proper in a community driven, bottom-up registry who has been independent of governmental influences for more than three decades I have submitted an lighting talk for the plenary and got rejected. I have attached the rejection letter here for your perusal. It is disconcerting to me because the matter is of utmost urgency and importance for the community and the RIR system. The purpose of the current letter is to re-state my intention of an open, frank, heart-to-heart discussion with the community. I will appreciate if any working group chair can pick up the subject and do an BoF during the working group sessions. I believe the graveness of the issue requires such a discussion - transparency and accountability are the two core values of this community. Here is the letter I received:
Dear Lu Heng,
We regret to inform you that your Lightning Talk submission for RIPE 85 titled 'A difficult reality' has not been accepted into the Plenary session.
From the PC's perspective the presentation does not fit the RIPE plenary. If your submission refers to the role of the RIPE NCC, then we suggest the NCC Services WG as the appropriate venue to start this discussion. If you want to have a discussion about the RIPE community as a policy making body, then we feel the RIPE community plenary is the right place to go.
Thank you, Franziska Lichtblau on behalf of the Programme Committee
My reply: Hi The presentation is about ripe community’s view on current actions taken by NRO and RIPE NCC. The matter is extremely serious and I believe ripe community should be aware. And yes, this is about where boundaries of ripe community policy making and how many people should be aware and participate community. I feel current ripe community is not truly inclusive enough for every internet user aware. I think best we have a frank discussion and inform the community, rather have me go to some channels of communication, and community might feel not informed and asking why. And THIS IS REALLY NOT ABOUT NCC SERVICE. If PC have future questions welcome to send me zoom link to discuss.
Lu Heng Chief Executive Officer LARUS Limited
Email H.Lu@LARUS.net Office +852 2988 8918
Address A3, 11/F, TML Tower, Tsuen Wan, N.T, Hong Kong SAR
Website: LARUS.net
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.
_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/hph%40ripe.net -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: ProtonMail
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Hi, can the moderators please find a solution to this discussion being crossposted to two (very large) mailing list, and with the different delivery times, causing "the other copy" of most mails to arrive hours or days later, which is highly annoying on the receiving side. Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard, Michael Emmer Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279
hans petter, the big-I Internet has become major critical infrastructure across the globe. to pretend we can ignore civil society, governments, the ITU, etc. would be shocking naïve and an extremely short term strategy. i, for one, appreciate RIPE and the NCC, and the RIR communities representing our interests to the formal aspects of civil society. randy
Hi,
the big-I Internet has become major critical infrastructure across the globe. to pretend we can ignore civil society, governments, the ITU, etc. would be shocking naïve and an extremely short term strategy.
i, for one, appreciate RIPE and the NCC, and the RIR communities representing our interests to the formal aspects of civil society.
+1 Our community is not an island. We need to work together with other bodies. While I got angry some time ago about some wording used, I *do* support the NCC's activities in this area. Cheers, Sander
Hi sander:So you do support RIR to be ITU and controlled by UN?Lu HengChief Executive Officer LARUS LimitedEmail H.Lu@LARUS.net Office +852 2988 8918 Address A3, 11/F, TML Tower, Tsuen Wan, N.T, Hong Kong SARWebsite: LARUS.netThis email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.---- On Wed, 26 Oct 2022 15:25:31 +0800 Sander Steffann<sander@steffann.nl> wrote ----Hi,> the big-I Internet has become major critical infrastructure across the> globe. to pretend we can ignore civil society, governments, the ITU,> etc. would be shocking naïve and an extremely short term strategy.> > i, for one, appreciate RIPE and the NCC, and the RIR communities> representing our interests to the formal aspects of civil society.+1Our community is not an island. We need to work together with other bodies. While I got angry some time ago about some wording used, I *do* support the NCC's activities in this area.Cheers,Sander-- To unsubscribe from this mailing list, get a password reminder, or change your subscription options, please visit: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/ripe-list
Hi Lu,
So you do support RIR to be ITU and controlled by UN
You seem to (intentionally?) confuse “work together with” and “being controlled by”. Please don’t. Cheers, Sander
Hi sander:Sending letter request to be specialized agency of United nation is “work with” government? If being specialized agency of United nation is not controlled by inter governmental body I don’t know what is.No, I am not confused here, you probably(intentionally) are.Lu HengChief Executive Officer LARUS LimitedEmail H.Lu@LARUS.net Office +852 2988 8918 Address A3, 11/F, TML Tower, Tsuen Wan, N.T, Hong Kong SARWebsite: LARUS.netThis email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.---- On Wed, 26 Oct 2022 17:08:02 +0800 Sander Steffann<sander@steffann.nl> wrote ----Hi Lu,So you do support RIR to be ITU and controlled by UNYou seem to (intentionally?) confuse “work together with” and “being controlled by”. Please don’t. Cheers,Sander
Dear All Is there any a proposal or any political influences that RIR should be controlled by the ITU qor any other intergovernmental agency , or what exactly is being discussed over here ?! Thank you and best regards Nabeel Yasin WhatsApp/Tel : +967 777006885 ________________________________ From: ripe-list <ripe-list-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Lu Heng <h.lu@larus.net> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2022 12:11 PM To: Sander Steffann <sander@steffann.nl> Cc: Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>; ripe-list <ripe-list@ripe.net>; members-discuss <members-discuss@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [ripe-list] [members-discuss] A frank discussion Hi sander: Sending letter request to be specialized agency of United nation is “work with” government? If being specialized agency of United nation is not controlled by inter governmental body I don’t know what is. No, I am not confused here, you probably(intentionally) are. Lu Heng Chief Executive Officer LARUS Limited Email H.Lu@LARUS.net <mailto:a.yan@outsideheaven.com> Office +852 2988 8918 <tel:+852+29888918> Address A3, 11/F, TML Tower, Tsuen Wan, N.T, Hong Kong SAR Website: LARUS.net This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. ---- On Wed, 26 Oct 2022 17:08:02 +0800 Sander Steffann<sander@steffann.nl> wrote ---- Hi Lu, So you do support RIR to be ITU and controlled by UN You seem to (intentionally?) confuse “work together with” and “being controlled by”. Please don’t. Cheers, Sander
Hi Nabeel:The NRO send a letter to mauritus goverment request to be specialized agency of United nation and get immunity for RIR leadership without community knowledge, that is issue we discuss here.Lu HengChief Executive Officer LARUS LimitedEmail H.Lu@LARUS.net Office +852 2988 8918 Address A3, 11/F, TML Tower, Tsuen Wan, N.T, Hong Kong SARWebsite: LARUS.netThis email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.---- On Wed, 26 Oct 2022 17:46:56 +0800 nabeelyasin@hotmail.com<nabeelyasin@hotmail.com> wrote ---- div.zm_7905025087677121921_parse_-544861052480912171 P { margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0 } Dear All Is there any a proposal or any political influences that RIR should be controlled by the ITU qor any other intergovernmental agency , or what exactly is being discussed over here ?! Thank you and best regards Nabeel Yasin WhatsApp/Tel : +967 777006885 From: ripe-list <ripe-list-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Lu Heng <h.lu@larus.net> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2022 12:11 PM To: Sander Steffann <sander@steffann.nl> Cc: Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>; ripe-list <ripe-list@ripe.net>; members-discuss <members-discuss@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [ripe-list] [members-discuss] A frank discussion Hi sander: Sending letter request to be specialized agency of United nation is “work with” government? If being specialized agency of United nation is not controlled by inter governmental body I don’t know what is. No, I am not confused here, you probably(intentionally) are. Lu Heng Chief Executive Officer LARUS Limited Email H.Lu@LARUS.net Office +852 2988 8918 Address A3, 11/F, TML Tower, Tsuen Wan, N.T, Hong Kong SAR Website: LARUS.net This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. ---- On Wed, 26 Oct 2022 17:08:02 +0800 Sander Steffann<sander@steffann.nl> wrote ---- Hi Lu, So you do support RIR to be ITU and controlled by UN You seem to (intentionally?) confuse “work together with” and “being controlled by”. Please don’t. Cheers, Sander
Hi Lu This is really strange request , so what was the justification or excuse for this letter. Regards Nabeel Yasin ________________________________ From: Lu Heng <h.lu@larus.net> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2022 1:08 PM To: NABEEL YASIN MOHAMMED AMIN <nabeelyasin@hotmail.com> Cc: Sander Steffann <sander@steffann.nl>; Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>; ripe-list <ripe-list@ripe.net>; members-discuss <members-discuss@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [ripe-list] [members-discuss] A frank discussion Hi Nabeel: The NRO send a letter to mauritus goverment request to be specialized agency of United nation and get immunity for RIR leadership without community knowledge, that is issue we discuss here. Lu Heng Chief Executive Officer LARUS Limited Email H.Lu@LARUS.net <mailto:a.yan@outsideheaven.com> Office +852 2988 8918 <tel:+852+29888918> Address A3, 11/F, TML Tower, Tsuen Wan, N.T, Hong Kong SAR Website: LARUS.net This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. ---- On Wed, 26 Oct 2022 17:46:56 +0800 nabeelyasin@hotmail.com<nabeelyasin@hotmail.com> wrote ---- Dear All Is there any a proposal or any political influences that RIR should be controlled by the ITU qor any other intergovernmental agency , or what exactly is being discussed over here ?! Thank you and best regards Nabeel Yasin WhatsApp/Tel : +967 777006885 ________________________________ From: ripe-list <ripe-list-bounces@ripe.net<mailto:ripe-list-bounces@ripe.net>> on behalf of Lu Heng <h.lu@larus.net<mailto:h.lu@larus.net>> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2022 12:11 PM To: Sander Steffann <sander@steffann.nl<mailto:sander@steffann.nl>> Cc: Randy Bush <randy@psg.com<mailto:randy@psg.com>>; ripe-list <ripe-list@ripe.net<mailto:ripe-list@ripe.net>>; members-discuss <members-discuss@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net>> Subject: Re: [ripe-list] [members-discuss] A frank discussion Hi sander: Sending letter request to be specialized agency of United nation is “work with” government? If being specialized agency of United nation is not controlled by inter governmental body I don’t know what is. No, I am not confused here, you probably(intentionally) are. Lu Heng Chief Executive Officer LARUS Limited Email H.Lu@LARUS.net<mailto:H.Lu@LARUS.net> <mailto:a.yan@outsideheaven.com> Office +852 2988 8918 <tel:+852+29888918> Address A3, 11/F, TML Tower, Tsuen Wan, N.T, Hong Kong SAR Website: LARUS.net This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. ---- On Wed, 26 Oct 2022 17:08:02 +0800 Sander Steffann<sander@steffann.nl<mailto:sander@steffann.nl>> wrote ---- Hi Lu, So you do support RIR to be ITU and controlled by UN You seem to (intentionally?) confuse “work together with” and “being controlled by”. Please don’t. Cheers, Sander
Hi Nabeel: The letter was published on 12th July(signed by APNIC Paul Wilson, LACNIC Oscar Robles, ARIN John Curran RIPE Hans Peter Hollen): https://www.nro.net/nro-letter-to-mauritius-government/ In the letter, NRO request to make RIR "international organisation" to achieve "better outcome". on September 8th, the Mauritius government rejected a request from AFRINIC to become an "international organization" https://www.nrs.help/post/is-afrinic-going-to-become-a-specialized-agency-of... (official statement is at the bottom of this post) In its rejection letter, the Mauritius government mentioned that AFRINIC's request was 1. made on 7th March 2022 2. Based on the "international organisations and conferences (privileges and immunities) act". With regards to the second reason, here's more information: According to the "international organisations and conferences (privileges and immunities) act" (link below), International organization means "specialized agency of the United Nations", and ITU is a "specialized agency of the United Nations". https://attorneygeneral.govmu.org/Documents/Laws%20of%20Mauritius/A-Z%20Acts... Lu Heng Chief Executive Officer LARUS Limited Email H.Lu@LARUS.netmailto:a.yan@outsideheaven.com Office tel:+852+29888918 Address A3, 11/F, TML Tower, Tsuen Wan, N.T, Hong Kong SAR Website: LARUS.net This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. ---- On Thu, 27 Oct 2022 14:49:36 +0800 NABEEL YASIN MOHAMMED AMIN <nabeelyasin@hotmail.com> wrote --- Hi Lu This is really strange request , so what was the justification or excuse for this letter. Regards Nabeel Yasin From: Lu Heng <mailto:h.lu@larus.net> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2022 1:08 PM To: NABEEL YASIN MOHAMMED AMIN <mailto:nabeelyasin@hotmail.com> Cc: Sander Steffann <mailto:sander@steffann.nl>; Randy Bush <mailto:randy@psg.com>; ripe-list <mailto:ripe-list@ripe.net>; members-discuss <mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [ripe-list] [members-discuss] A frank discussion Hi Nabeel: The NRO send a letter to mauritus goverment request to be specialized agency of United nation and get immunity for RIR leadership without community knowledge, that is issue we discuss here. Lu Heng Chief Executive Officer LARUS Limited Email mailto:H.Lu@LARUS.netmailto:a.yan@outsideheaven.com Office tel:+852+29888918 Address A3, 11/F, TML Tower, Tsuen Wan, N.T, Hong Kong SAR Website: LARUS.net This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. ---- On Wed, 26 Oct 2022 17:46:56 +0800 mailto:nabeelyasin@hotmail.com<mailto:nabeelyasin@hotmail.com> wrote ---- Dear All Is there any a proposal or any political influences that RIR should be controlled by the ITU qor any other intergovernmental agency , or what exactly is being discussed over here ?! Thank you and best regards Nabeel Yasin WhatsApp/Tel : +967 777006885 From: ripe-list <mailto:ripe-list-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Lu Heng <mailto:h.lu@larus.net> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2022 12:11 PM To: Sander Steffann <mailto:sander@steffann.nl> Cc: Randy Bush <mailto:randy@psg.com>; ripe-list <mailto:ripe-list@ripe.net>; members-discuss <mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [ripe-list] [members-discuss] A frank discussion Hi sander: Sending letter request to be specialized agency of United nation is “work with” government? If being specialized agency of United nation is not controlled by inter governmental body I don’t know what is. No, I am not confused here, you probably(intentionally) are. Lu Heng Chief Executive Officer LARUS Limited Email mailto:H.Lu@LARUS.netmailto:a.yan@outsideheaven.com Office tel:+852+29888918 Address A3, 11/F, TML Tower, Tsuen Wan, N.T, Hong Kong SAR Website: LARUS.net This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. ---- On Wed, 26 Oct 2022 17:08:02 +0800 Sander Steffann<mailto:sander@steffann.nl> wrote ---- Hi Lu, So you do support RIR to be ITU and controlled by UN You seem to (intentionally?) confuse “work together with” and “being controlled by”. Please don’t. Cheers, Sander
Peace, Inline, On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 2:34 PM Lu Heng <h.lu@larus.net> wrote:
The NRO send a letter to mauritus goverment request to be specialized agency of United nation
Your statement does not make sense. One cannot request a UN agency status from the Mauritius government, because the Mauritius government cannot grant such a status. Only the UN can. On Fri, Oct 28, 2022 at 8:49 AM Lu Heng <h.lu@larus.net> wrote:
The letter [to the Mauritius government] was published on 12th July [..] In the letter, NRO request to make RIR "international organisation" to achieve "better outcome".
on September 8th, the Mauritius government rejected a request from AFRINIC
According to the "international organisations and conferences (privileges and immunities) act" (link below), International organization means "specialized agency of the United Nations", and ITU is a "specialized agency of the United Nations".
Aha, so it just seems like a malformed request. The requestors didn't know about these nuances of the Mauritian legislation. Sad, but understandable. I believe it was even discussed before, elsewhere. Not quite what you declared it to be, though. -- Töma
Hi Toma: "The requestors didn't know about these nuances of the Mauritian legislation." Hans have confirm the request was reviewed and approved by 5 RIR's lawyers, in a common sense, I would expect him to know the nuance before signing such letter on behalf of RIPE. And obviously AFRINIC knows the nuance, can you confirm the above statement you refer RIPE NCC did not know? where is your knowledge come from? And someone from RIPE NCC or Hans himself please confirm this is information was told to the community in private during RIPE meeting, because I did not see any official statement about it. I did not declare anything, I simply state the fact based on public available information. Lu Heng Chief Executive Officer LARUS Limited Email H.Lu@LARUS.netmailto:a.yan@outsideheaven.com Office tel:+852+29888918 Address A3, 11/F, TML Tower, Tsuen Wan, N.T, Hong Kong SAR Website: LARUS.net This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. ---- On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 17:41:14 +0800 Töma Gavrichenkov <ximaera@gmail.com> wrote --- Peace, Inline, On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 2:34 PM Lu Heng <mailto:h.lu@larus.net> wrote:
The NRO send a letter to mauritus goverment request to be specialized agency of United nation
Your statement does not make sense. One cannot request a UN agency status from the Mauritius government, because the Mauritius government cannot grant such a status. Only the UN can. On Fri, Oct 28, 2022 at 8:49 AM Lu Heng <mailto:h.lu@larus.net> wrote:
The letter [to the Mauritius government] was published on 12th July [..] In the letter, NRO request to make RIR "international organisation" to achieve "better outcome".
on September 8th, the Mauritius government rejected a request from AFRINIC
According to the "international organisations and conferences (privileges and immunities) act" (link below), International organization means "specialized agency of the United Nations", and ITU is a "specialized agency of the United Nations".
Aha, so it just seems like a malformed request. The requestors didn't know about these nuances of the Mauritian legislation. Sad, but understandable. I believe it was even discussed before, elsewhere. Not quite what you declared it to be, though. -- Töma
Peace, On Fri, Oct 28, 2022 at 12:23 PM Lu Heng <h.lu@larus.net> wrote:
Hi Toma:
"The requestors didn't know about these nuances of the Mauritian legislation."
Hans have confirm the request was reviewed [..skipping the rest - TG..]
All of this is entirely irrelevant to the simple fact that the RIRs (as you stated) can not request an UN "specialized agency" status from the Mauritian government, the Serbian government, the barista at Metropol, me, or any other unrelated party. The official UN status could only be granted by the UN, and therefore could only be requested from the UN office. There were no such requests I'm aware of to the UN office from any of the RIRs. You're welcome to present a proof of such a request, with strictly *the UN office* being the addressee, should you have one. Unless you have it (which is unlikely), the topic seems closed to me because your original claim is addressed. With whatever unrelated complaints you have about the operations of the NCC legislation office, please spawn a separate thread and not change subjects in an e-mail conversation. This is pretty much e-mail etiquette respected and followed for 30+ years. -- Töma
Hi Tome: You are confusing the issue here. My statement are simply reflect the factual event have happened. NRO joined send a letter to Mauritius government to request them make an RIR specialised agency of United nation under a law of Mauritius. This is undisputed fact with evidential document have been shared here multiple times. The logic you going here, is simply "because what NRO did something does not make common sense, so the community can not discuss it here" On the contrary, in my view, this is exactly why the community need to discuss here because what they did something make no sense! That called community scrutiny! The questions you raised in additional to the key ones I have asked. Does Mauritius government have such mandate to give an local company UN status? Why NRO believe Mauritius government have such mandate to do so? Why NRO believe such letter will achieve their intent results in which is give RIR official immunity for in their view, a better outcome? All those questions are for NRO or Hans Peter, who signed the letter, to answer, and he have been extremely evasive to the any of those question, his follow up email with diplomatic double speaking put politician in shame. so Hans, can you please tell the community why you believe the Mauritian government can make a local company UN agency? Lu Heng Chief Executive Officer LARUS Limited Email H.Lu@LARUS.netmailto:a.yan@outsideheaven.com Office tel:+852+29888918 Address A3, 11/F, TML Tower, Tsuen Wan, N.T, Hong Kong SAR Website: LARUS.net This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. ---- On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 19:58:47 +0800 Töma Gavrichenkov<ximaera@gmail.com> wrote ---- Peace, On Fri, Oct 28, 2022 at 12:23 PM Lu Heng <mailto:h.lu@larus.net> wrote:
Hi Toma:
"The requestors didn't know about these nuances of the Mauritian legislation."
Hans have confirm the request was reviewed [..skipping the rest - TG..]
All of this is entirely irrelevant to the simple fact that the RIRs (as you stated) can not request an UN "specialized agency" status from the Mauritian government, the Serbian government, the barista at Metropol, me, or any other unrelated party. The official UN status could only be granted by the UN, and therefore could only be requested from the UN office. There were no such requests I'm aware of to the UN office from any of the RIRs. You're welcome to present a proof of such a request, with strictly *the UN office* being the addressee, should you have one. Unless you have it (which is unlikely), the topic seems closed to me because your original claim is addressed. With whatever unrelated complaints you have about the operations of the NCC legislation office, please spawn a separate thread and not change subjects in an e-mail conversation. This is pretty much e-mail etiquette respected and followed for 30+ years. -- Töma
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 Töma, Please don't speak on behalf of the whole RIPE community, thank you. Kind Regards, Elad ------- Original Message ------- On Friday, October 28th, 2022 at 2:58 PM, Töma Gavrichenkov <ximaera@gmail.com> wrote:
Peace,
On Fri, Oct 28, 2022 at 12:23 PM Lu Heng h.lu@larus.net wrote:
Hi Toma:
"The requestors didn't know about these nuances of the Mauritian legislation."
Hans have confirm the request was reviewed [..skipping the rest - TG..]
All of this is entirely irrelevant to the simple fact that the RIRs (as you stated) can not request an UN "specialized agency" status from the Mauritian government, the Serbian government, the barista at Metropol, me, or any other unrelated party. The official UN status could only be granted by the UN, and therefore could only be requested from the UN office.
There were no such requests I'm aware of to the UN office from any of the RIRs. You're welcome to present a proof of such a request, with strictly the UN office being the addressee, should you have one.
Unless you have it (which is unlikely), the topic seems closed to me because your original claim is addressed. With whatever unrelated complaints you have about the operations of the NCC legislation office, please spawn a separate thread and not change subjects in an e-mail conversation. This is pretty much e-mail etiquette respected and followed for 30+ years.
-- Töma
--
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Peace, On Sat, 29 Oct 2022, 5:47 pm Elad Cohen, <elad@netstyle.io> wrote:
Töma,
Please don't speak on behalf of the whole RIPE community, thank you.
Not at all, because I already don't! If you paid more attention to the text, you might have had a chance to notice the "to me" part after the "the topic seems closed" part. The irony being, in the meantime, Lu Heng is pretending to be speaking on behalf of the whole RIPE community, holding no official community position whatsoever: "That called community scrutiny! [..] so Hans, can you please tell the community why you believe [..]" — and, Elad, you again don't seem to pay attention to it. -- Töma
Hi Toma:Community scrutiny does not in anyway means I speak for anyone else but by myself.Or you are implying community scrutiny only valid when every single person in the community agree?Get some common sense please, any community member have rights raise issue and that called “community scrutiny”. Lu HengChief Executive Officer LARUS LimitedEmail H.Lu@LARUS.net Office +852 2988 8918 Address A3, 11/F, TML Tower, Tsuen Wan, N.T, Hong Kong SARWebsite: LARUS.netThis email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.---- On Sun, 30 Oct 2022 00:11:23 +0800 Töma Gavrichenkov<ximaera@gmail.com> wrote ----Peace,On Sat, 29 Oct 2022, 5:47 pm Elad Cohen, <elad@netstyle.io> wrote: Töma, Please don't speak on behalf of the whole RIPE community, thank you.Not at all, because I already don't!If you paid more attention to the text, you might have had a chance to notice the "to me" part after the "the topic seems closed" part.The irony being, in the meantime, Lu Heng is pretending to be speaking on behalf of the whole RIPE community, holding no official community position whatsoever:"That called community scrutiny![..]so Hans, can you please tell the community why you believe [..]"— and, Elad, you again don't seem to pay attention to it.--Töma
Peace, On Sat, 29 Oct 2022, 6:40 pm Lu Heng, <h.lu@larus.net> wrote:
Community scrutiny does not in anyway means I speak for anyone else but by myself.
Obviously it means exactly that, if it is a "community" scrutiny, and not a "Lu Heng" scrutiny. This is kind of the definition of it, innit? A community scrutiny is not a "community member" scrutiny. It is a process that has been approved by rough consensus across the community. Otherwise the board and the NCC would've been overwhelmed with individual requests under the "community scrutiny" disguise. Your individual concern is your individual concern. Before pretending that your e-mail is a "community scrutiny", you should've had initiated a proper process in the community and evaluated the outcome, if any. E.g. organizing a BoF session is an example of a *beginning* of a proper process (to the contrary, and quite notably, submitting a lightning talk candidate is not). You did not do that. Another way of seeking confirmation that an issue, which is presumably important to you, is also not nothing for the community is sending an e-mail about this issue to the community mailing list and receiving support in feedback. You did send such an e-mail 5 days ago, but the support you've received since then is hardly distinguishable from none. If this is a community request, then the community we're speaking of is basically you, Elad, and in any case no more than 2 more individuals. Not the RIPE community. -- Töma
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 Töma, Please refrain from listing me in any group, thank you. This mailing list is not a debates club and not a platform for arguments of each side, serious issues were raised, please allow RIPE NCC to answer instead of creating noise and distraction. Kind Regards, Elad ------- Original Message ------- On Saturday, October 29th, 2022 at 8:28 PM, Töma Gavrichenkov <ximaera@gmail.com> wrote:
Peace,
On Sat, 29 Oct 2022, 6:40 pm Lu Heng, <h.lu@larus.net> wrote:
Community scrutiny does not in anyway means I speak for anyone else but by myself.
Obviously it means exactly that, if it is a "community" scrutiny, and not a "Lu Heng" scrutiny.
This is kind of the definition of it, innit?
A community scrutiny is not a "community member" scrutiny. It is a process that has been approved by rough consensus across the community. Otherwise the board and the NCC would've been overwhelmed with individual requests under the "community scrutiny" disguise.
Your individual concern is your individual concern.
Before pretending that your e-mail is a "community scrutiny", you should've had initiated a proper process in the community and evaluated the outcome, if any.
E.g. organizing a BoF session is an example of a *beginning* of a proper process (to the contrary, and quite notably, submitting a lightning talk candidate is not). You did not do that.
Another way of seeking confirmation that an issue, which is presumably important to you, is also not nothing for the community is sending an e-mail about this issue to the community mailing list and receiving support in feedback. You did send such an e-mail 5 days ago, but the support you've received since then is hardly distinguishable from none.
If this is a community request, then the community we're speaking of is basically you, Elad, and in any case no more than 2 more individuals. Not the RIPE community.
-- Töma -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: ProtonMail
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Hi Tome:While my English is not perfect, you really need work on your understanding of the language.And since this not the subject we discuss here, I will not future respond to you on the language skill.Lu HengChief Executive Officer LARUS LimitedEmail H.Lu@LARUS.net Office +852 2988 8918 Address A3, 11/F, TML Tower, Tsuen Wan, N.T, Hong Kong SARWebsite: LARUS.netThis email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.---- On Sun, 30 Oct 2022 03:05:18 +0800 Elad Cohen<elad@netstyle.io> wrote ---------BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 Töma, Please refrain from listing me in any group, thank you. This mailing list is not a debates club and not a platform for arguments of each side, serious issues were raised, please allow RIPE NCC to answer instead of creating noise and distraction. Kind Regards, Elad ------- Original Message ------- On Saturday, October 29th, 2022 at 8:28 PM, Töma Gavrichenkov <ximaera@gmail.com> wrote: > Peace, > > On Sat, 29 Oct 2022, 6:40 pm Lu Heng, <h.lu@larus.net> wrote: > > > Community scrutiny does not in anyway means I speak for anyone else but by myself. > > > Obviously it means exactly that, if it is a "community" scrutiny, and not a "Lu Heng" scrutiny. > > This is kind of the definition of it, innit? > > A community scrutiny is not a "community member" scrutiny. It is a process that has been approved by rough consensus across the community. Otherwise the board and the NCC would've been overwhelmed with individual requests under the "community scrutiny" disguise. > > Your individual concern is your individual concern. > > Before pretending that your e-mail is a "community scrutiny", you should've had initiated a proper process in the community and evaluated the outcome, if any. > > E.g. organizing a BoF session is an example of a *beginning* of a proper process (to the contrary, and quite notably, submitting a lightning talk candidate is not). You did not do that. > > Another way of seeking confirmation that an issue, which is presumably important to you, is also not nothing for the community is sending an e-mail about this issue to the community mailing list and receiving support in feedback. You did send such an e-mail 5 days ago, but the support you've received since then is hardly distinguishable from none. > > If this is a community request, then the community we're speaking of is basically you, Elad, and in any case no more than 2 more individuals. Not the RIPE community. > > -- > Töma -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: ProtonMail wnUEARYKAAYFAmNdeVkAIQkQj6WtEth1vqMWIQQHtrd3aktNVejGGPiPpa0S 2HW+o5/aAQCHvdQeOMoZL0NN2MFJJVjrIR2bZ90tyVhM72eLDuyKoAD+KM9i lEGDB5e96HpFOHqNxdKLJj3PY3laiP9TY77drgE= =uiV3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Peace, Inline,
On Sat, 29 Oct 2022, 9:05 pm Elad Cohen, Please refrain from listing me in any group, thank you.
Please assume that I am entitled to do so as I please.
This mailing list is not a debates club and not a platform for arguments of each side
Actually this *is* the platform for community discussions, always was, it is sort of surprising that you believe the opposite.
serious issues were raised, please allow RIPE NCC to answer instead of creating noise and distraction.
In my opinion, there's nothing the NCC needs to be answering to in this regard. In your opinion, it is the opposite. In my opinion, it is you who's causing senseless noise and distraction. I your opinion, it is the opposite. Again, everyone is perfectly entitled to their own opinion, since no one of us is a representative of the RIPE community. On Sat, 29 Oct 2022, 9:08 pm Lu Heng, <h.lu@larus.net> wrote:
While my English is not perfect, you really need work on your understanding of the language.
And since this not the subject we discuss here, I will not future respond to you on the language skill.
In my opinion, I did not in any sentence mention anything about understanding the language, and you're not referring to any particular sentence in a rather lengthy e-mail, either. Next time please save our time by being specific. -- Töma
{Remove members-discuss} Dear RIPE Community, Hope this email finds you in good health! Please see my comments below, inline... Thanks. Le mercredi 26 octobre 2022, NABEEL YASIN MOHAMMED AMIN < nabeelyasin@hotmail.com> a écrit :
Dear All
Is there any a proposal or any political influences that RIR should be controlled by the ITU qor any other intergovernmental agency , or
Hi Nabeel, Thanks for your email, brother! No public evidence available to support it right now ...imho :-/
what exactly is being discussed over here ?!
...imho! simply a strategy to attempt to put the entire Internet Numbers Registry System (INRS) [1] in a disadvantageous position by attacking on its very core values/principles (bottom-up, openness, transparency, fairness)...via a strawman fallacy [2]. __ [1]: <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc7020> [2]: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man> If i could add i would say this: what the Internet Community should not miss is this ongoing demonstration of a top->down Org [3][4] trying to slowly replace the NRO in attacking its members one by one; starting by the supposed weakest one: AfriNIC [5][6]. This [7] communiqué could be of worth interest to read, if one want to know the story from the side of the victim... :'-( __ [3]: Our Charter | NRS <https://web.archive.org/web/20210804044327/https://www.nra.help/our-charter
[4] Terms & Conditions | NRS <https://web.archive.org/web/20210804044333/https://www. nra.help/terms-conditions> [5]: FactSheets <https://afrinic.net/litigation-faq> [6]: <https://afrinic.net/court-cases/> [7]: <https://afrinic.net/20220827-communique> It's about an ongoing Internet Number Resources War... Hope this adds a bit of fairness into this thread! Shalom, --sb.
Thank you and best regards
Nabeel Yasin WhatsApp/Tel : +967 777006885 ------------------------------ *From:* ripe-list <ripe-list-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Lu Heng < h.lu@larus.net> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 26, 2022 12:11 PM *To:* Sander Steffann <sander@steffann.nl> *Cc:* Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>; ripe-list <ripe-list@ripe.net>; members-discuss <members-discuss@ripe.net> *Subject:* Re: [ripe-list] [members-discuss] A frank discussion
[...]
-- Best Regards ! __ baya.sylvain[AT cmNOG DOT cm]|<https://cmnog.cm/dokuwiki/Structure> Subscribe to Mailing List: <https://lists.cmnog.cm/mailman/listinfo/cmnog/> __ #LASAINTEBIBLE|#Romains15:33«Que LE #DIEU de #Paix soit avec vous tous! #Amen!» #MaPrière est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chrétiennement «Comme une biche soupire après des courants d’eau, ainsi mon âme soupire après TOI, ô DIEU!»(#Psaumes42:2)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 * GDPR regulations apply to this electronic mail, monitoring and/or storing it by a 3rd party is strictly forbidden * Sander, I hope that RIPE NCC will share the full names of the Dutch, US and UK government representatives. And that there is nothing to hide, it is not like the CIA and MI6 are pulling the strings in Afrinic. Kind Regards, Elad The information transmitted by this email is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. This email may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, be aware that any use, review, retransmission, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is strictly prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from all computers. ------- Original Message ------- On Wednesday, October 26th, 2022 at 12:08 PM, Sander Steffann <sander@steffann.nl> wrote:
Hi Lu,
So you do support RIR to be ITU and controlled by UN
You seem to (intentionally?) confuse “work together with” and “being controlled by”. Please don’t.
Cheers, Sander
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participants (10)
-
Elad Cohen -
Gert Doering -
Hans Petter Holen -
Lu Heng -
Martin Winter -
NABEEL YASIN MOHAMMED AMIN -
Randy Bush -
Sander Steffann -
Sylvain Baya -
Töma Gavrichenkov