Hi, On Tue, Oct 31, 2023 at 02:31:41PM -0400, Farzaneh Badiei wrote:

Engineers don???t wanna be forewarned that their personal data might be processed? Wanna read 200 pages of terms and conditions in fine print?

The point is more "why are you hosting things in a place where this is a relevant question?". And indeed, why should a website process my personal data when I only want to view a RIPE labs article? - it shouldn't, so the banner needs to go away due to "we're not doing anything that would require consent". Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard, Michael Emmer Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279

On 1 Nov 2023, at 10:48, Jim Reid <jim@rfc1035.com> wrote:

...

On 1 Nov 2023, at 08:55, Gert Doering <gert@space.net> wrote:

And indeed, why should a website process my personal data when I only want to view a RIPE labs article?

And, for bonus points, why is RIPE content encumbered by spyware?

It really is just a podcast, folks (not an article). You can also just go to this link and select your favourite, spyware-free podcast listening app: https://pod.link/1618220736 (Now I’m really hoping that URL doesn’t link to a bunch of spyware!) Chris

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But we “solved” this DNS / Whois privacy issues meanwhile, right? So why not solving it for the podcast as well, or right before publishing it? Oil … Fire … sorry BR Peter Von: ripe-list <ripe-list-bounces@ripe.net> Im Auftrag von Farzaneh Badiei Gesendet: Mittwoch, 1. November 2023 13:54 An: Chris Buckridge <chrisbuckridge@gmail.com> Cc: Jim Reid <jim@rfc1035.com>; ripe-list@ripe.net Betreff: Re: [ripe-list] New on the RIPE Labs Podcast: Frugal Computing for a Sustainable Internet Seriously Jim, you call this "spyware"? Really? Shall we pick our battles... I wish our engineers had cared this much about privacy when it came to Internet infrastructure, for example WHOIS and DNS resolvers, and not threw people's private sensitive information out in public for so many years! On Wed, Nov 1, 2023 at 6:01 AM Chris Buckridge <chrisbuckridge@gmail.com <mailto:chrisbuckridge@gmail.com> > wrote: On 1 Nov 2023, at 10:48, Jim Reid <jim@rfc1035.com <mailto:jim@rfc1035.com> > wrote: On 1 Nov 2023, at 08:55, Gert Doering <gert@space.net <mailto:gert@space.net> > wrote: And indeed, why should a website process my personal data when I only want to view a RIPE labs article? And, for bonus points, why is RIPE content encumbered by spyware? It really is just a podcast, folks (not an article). You can also just go to this link and select your favourite, spyware-free podcast listening app: https://pod.link/1618220736 (Now I’m really hoping that URL doesn’t link to a bunch of spyware!) Chris -- To unsubscribe from this mailing list, get a password reminder, or change your subscription options, please visit: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/ripe-list -- To unsubscribe from this mailing list, get a password reminder, or change your subscription options, please visit: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/ripe-list

Jim Reid wrote on 01/11/2023 13:09:

Yes. IMO anything that harvests Personal Data is spyware, more so when there is no valid reason to gather those data.

Jim, I'm puzzled as to why you've posted this on a public mailing list, where you have no idea who the recipients are and how they might be harvesting your personal data :) The RIPE NCC has a call to make about how to host content. Hosting podcasts on third party platforms gets wide distribution and frees up the NCC from the costs and overhead associated with self-hosting podcast content. Bear it in mind that in other forums, people are complaining about the RIPE NCC's expenditure. All podcost sites use cookies. The better ones are more up-front about it, and pop up banners before presenting content (+ cookies). Some will play the content while allowing users to reject "legitimate interest" as a basis for processing PII. This should improve in time in the parts of the world with GDPR (EU + EEA). "Legitimate interest" has traditionally been the basis for some of the more invasive tracking programs, but the CJEU ruled earlier this year that legitimate interest is an inadequate argument to track users using identifiers without the data subject's consent. In regard to consent, the GPDR is clear that consent means "consent, freely given". I.e. there should be no detriment if consent is not given, i.e. no more highwayman "consent or no content" choices. Nick

Hi, On Wed, Nov 01, 2023 at 03:02:18PM +0100, Carsten Schiefner wrote:

On 01.11.2023 10:58, Chris Buckridge wrote:

...

It really is just a podcast, folks (not an article). You can also just go to this link and select your favourite, spyware-free podcast listening app: https://pod.link/1618220736 <https://pod.link/1618220736>

The "30 Oct 2023" links to:

https://pod.link/1618220736/episode/fc7d2308cfb256eff33bf181065a83ce

And that page eventually bears a link to a googd old MP3:

https://sphinx.acast.com/p/open/s/6230b87ec3fb6c0013f156c6/e/653f5ea08f6e5f0...

That's somewhat missing the point. RIPE shouldn't be hosting things at places where you need to click on a cookie banner. Period. (Well, nobody should, but *that* is a lost cause) Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard, Michael Emmer Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279

Farzaneh Badiei <farzaneh@digitalmedusa.org> wrote: > Engineers don’t wanna be forewarned that their personal data might be > processed? Wanna read 200 pages of terms and conditions in fine print? Randy's point is that the article completely fails to communicate with it's target audience, since most of us, having read the disclaimer won't follow the link. >> another article which says >> >> Permission required to view Acast >> >> This content comes from Acast. Displaying this content may result in >> Acast processing your personal data and/or placing cookies on your >> computer or other device. Further information is available. >> >> you do realize that no privacy/security conscious/paranoid engineer is >> gonna click this? >> >> randy >> >> -- >> >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, get a password reminder, or >> change your subscription options, please visit: >> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/ripe-list >> > ---------------------------------------------------- > Alternatives: > ---------------------------------------------------- > -- > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, get a password reminder, or > change your subscription options, please visit: > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/ripe-list

Dear Randy, all, To keep things transparent and improve compliance with legal requirements around cookies, before our readers view any third-party embedded content on RIPE Labs, we let them know that the third party might place cookies and process their personal data. We also think it’s important that no cookies are forced on our readers - so we make it clear what the third-party content is and who it’s from, and readers can then choose whether to accept it or not. As for the use of third-party embedded content on RIPE Labs, this is limited to YouTube videos, the podcasts hosted on Acast, and some visualisations we've built using Flourish Studio. We use these platforms mainly because they make it very easy for readers to view and interact with content in ways that would be difficult and costly to reproduce in-house. You can still read our articles without choosing to view these particular bits of content. And with regards to the podcast, you can listen to all of our episodes on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or several other platforms. The important thing here is that the choice rests with our readers. I understand that you would prefer not to have to make that choice and that all content should be available directly from the RIPE NCC without any third party involved. However, these services allow us to make our content available to more people via syndication and make the content much more engaging in ways we’re not capable of directly. So we think we’ve reached a good balance here between not forcing anything on readers but at the same time making our articles as engaging, accessible and discoverable as possible. Best regards, Alun Davies RIPE Labs Editor

On 31 Oct 2023, at 19:11, Randy Bush <randy@psg.com> wrote:

another article which says

Permission required to view Acast

This content comes from Acast. Displaying this content may result in Acast processing your personal data and/or placing cookies on your computer or other device. Further information is available.

you do realize that no privacy/security conscious/paranoid engineer is gonna click this?

randy

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mornin' alun,

To keep things transparent and improve compliance with legal requirements around cookies, before our readers view any third-party embedded content on RIPE Labs, we let them know that the third party might place cookies and process their personal data. We also think it’s important that no cookies are forced on our readers - so we make it clear what the third-party content is and who it’s from, and readers can then choose whether to accept it or not.

appreciate the consideration.

As for the use of third-party embedded content on RIPE Labs, this is limited to YouTube videos, the podcasts hosted on Acast, and some visualisations we've built using Flourish Studio.

for an mp3?

The important thing here is that the choice rests with our readers.

not exactly. the important thing is the ncc's outsourcing choices are creating non-readers. randy