Re: [members-discuss] Feedback Requested: RIPE NCC Broker List
My Vote are for B Den 2019-12-19 kl. 10:37, skrev Schnabeltier:
Dear colleagues,
I think we have three options. I would vote for option B:
A) Keeping the list.
B) We would consider it as important to have a list of reliable brokers. The RIPE NCC would only publish information of brokers which are verified. If the majority would vote for this option, we have to find a solution how to verify the integrity of brokers.
C) We do not consider a list of reliable brokers as important. While RIPE NCC cannot or does not want to validate the integrity of brokers at this moment, the list should be removed.
------------------------------------------------------------------------ *From:* Christian Kaufmann <exec-board@ripe.net </email/new/1/exec-board%40ripe.net>> *Sent:* Thursday, 19. Dec 2019 – 10:17 CET +0100 *To:* members-discuss@ripe.net </email/new/1/members-discuss%40ripe.net>
*Subject:* [members-discuss] Feedback Requested: RIPE NCC Broker List
Dear RIPE NCC members,
The Executive Board has been following this discussion and we can see general agreement for a change in the way brokers are listed on the RIPE NCC's website.
The question is whether the RIPE NCC should remove the list entirely, or otherwise take steps to improve its approach. There are pros and cons with both options.
Removing the list is straightforward and would spare the RIPE NCC a few headaches. However, it is worth considering whether the current model provides some incentive for brokers to play by the rules and what might happen if this incentive is gone.
Conversely, it's clear that some brokers are still spamming RIPE Database contacts. Is this the only problem we are seeking to eliminate here, or are there others? Could an updated set of terms or a stricter approach by the RIPE NCC help to mitigate this?
Before the board makes its decision, we would like to hear your thoughts on this list.
Kind regards,
Christian Kaufmann RIPE NCC Executive Board Chairman
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-- Vänliga hälsningar / Best regards Leo De Geer MikroTik Certified Consultant/Trainer MTCINE MTCRE MTCTCE MTCWE MTCNA MTCUME MTCIPv6E MTCSE MTCASE Tel +46 325 660 650 Fax +46 325 660 650 Web www.shlab.se e-mail ripe@shlab.se
Hi I would suggest we go for option C, it’s really not ripe’s job to provide nor endorse any brokers. Schnabeltier <ripe-member-discuss@cidr.eu>于2019年12月19日 周四17:37写道：
Dear colleagues,
I think we have three options. I would vote for option B:
A) Keeping the list.
B) We would consider it as important to have a list of reliable brokers. The RIPE NCC would only publish information of brokers which are verified. If the majority would vote for this option, we have to find a solution how to verify the integrity of brokers.
C) We do not consider a list of reliable brokers as important. While RIPE NCC cannot or does not want to validate the integrity of brokers at this moment, the list should be removed.
------------------------------ *From:* Christian Kaufmann <exec-board@ripe.net <http:///email/new/1/exec-board%40ripe.net>> *Sent:* Thursday, 19. Dec 2019 – 10:17 CET +0100 *To:* members-discuss@ripe.net <http:///email/new/1/members-discuss%40ripe.net>
*Subject:* [members-discuss] Feedback Requested: RIPE NCC Broker List
Dear RIPE NCC members,
The Executive Board has been following this discussion and we can see general agreement for a change in the way brokers are listed on the RIPE NCC's website.
The question is whether the RIPE NCC should remove the list entirely, or otherwise take steps to improve its approach. There are pros and cons with both options.
Removing the list is straightforward and would spare the RIPE NCC a few headaches. However, it is worth considering whether the current model provides some incentive for brokers to play by the rules and what might happen if this incentive is gone.
Conversely, it's clear that some brokers are still spamming RIPE Database contacts. Is this the only problem we are seeking to eliminate here, or are there others? Could an updated set of terms or a stricter approach by the RIPE NCC help to mitigate this?
Before the board makes its decision, we would like to hear your thoughts on this list.
Kind regards,
Christian Kaufmann RIPE NCC Executive Board Chairman
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Hi,
I would suggest we go for option C, it’s really not ripe’s job to provide nor endorse any brokers.
...but the RIPE NCC is involved in address transfers. If I have to recommend a list of bokers, I'd rather recommend one that has agreed to abide by RIPE policy than one which hasn't, and how else would we find that out? Subsequent enforcement of the RIPE policies on the brokers is another matter... Cheers, Rob
I would vote for Option B. If we have a list of contracted brokers... Better than nothing....Best RegardsChristianVon meinem Samsung Galaxy Smartphone gesendet. -------- Ursprüngliche Nachricht --------Von: Rob Evans <rhe@nosc.ja.net> Datum: 19.12.19 10:53 (GMT+01:00) An: members-discuss@ripe.net Betreff: Re: [members-discuss] Feedback Requested: RIPE NCC Broker List Hi,> I would suggest we go for option C, it’s really not ripe’s job to > provide nor endorse any brokers....but the RIPE NCC is involved in address transfers. If I have to recommend a list of bokers, I'd rather recommend one that has agreed to abide by RIPE policy than one which hasn't, and how else would we find that out?Subsequent enforcement of the RIPE policies on the brokers is another matter...Cheers,Rob_______________________________________________members-discuss mailing listmembers-discuss@ripe.nethttps://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discussUnsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/christian.kroeger%40o...
Hi; We also vote for B, as it is important to have the reputable brokers be distinguished, which will be an incentive for other brokers to go by book and follow the terms and conditions of their agreement with RIPE NCC. Samer Mansour VP Sales and Marketing INANA GROUP Oman Tel: +968-2461-7098 M: +968-911-26117 Muscat - Sultanate of Oman <http://www.inana-group.com/> www.inana-group.com <mailto:Info@inana-group.com> Info@inana-group.com From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> On Behalf Of Lu Heng Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 1:43 PM To: Schnabeltier <ripe-member-discuss@cidr.eu> Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Feedback Requested: RIPE NCC Broker List Hi I would suggest we go for option C, it’s really not ripe’s job to provide nor endorse any brokers. Schnabeltier <ripe-member-discuss@cidr.eu <mailto:ripe-member-discuss@cidr.eu> >于2019年12月19日 周四17:37写道： Dear colleagues, I think we have three options. I would vote for option B: A) Keeping the list. B) We would consider it as important to have a list of reliable brokers. The RIPE NCC would only publish information of brokers which are verified. If the majority would vote for this option, we have to find a solution how to verify the integrity of brokers. C) We do not consider a list of reliable brokers as important. While RIPE NCC cannot or does not want to validate the integrity of brokers at this moment, the list should be removed. _____ From: Christian Kaufmann < <http://email/new/1/exec-board%40ripe.net> exec-board@ripe.net> Sent: Thursday, 19. Dec 2019 – 10:17 CET +0100 To: <http://email/new/1/members-discuss%40ripe.net> members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: [members-discuss] Feedback Requested: RIPE NCC Broker List Dear RIPE NCC members, The Executive Board has been following this discussion and we can see general agreement for a change in the way brokers are listed on the RIPE NCC's website. The question is whether the RIPE NCC should remove the list entirely, or otherwise take steps to improve its approach. There are pros and cons with both options. Removing the list is straightforward and would spare the RIPE NCC a few headaches. However, it is worth considering whether the current model provides some incentive for brokers to play by the rules and what might happen if this incentive is gone. Conversely, it's clear that some brokers are still spamming RIPE Database contacts. Is this the only problem we are seeking to eliminate here, or are there others? Could an updated set of terms or a stricter approach by the RIPE NCC help to mitigate this? Before the board makes its decision, we would like to hear your thoughts on this list. Kind regards, Christian Kaufmann RIPE NCC Executive Board Chairman _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/ripe-member-discuss%4... _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/tech%40outsideheaven.... -- This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) shown above. It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by persons other than the intended addressee(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify this office immediately and e-mail the original at the sender's address above by replying to this message and including the text of the transmission received.
On Thu Dec 19, 2019 at 05:42:45PM +0800, Lu Heng wrote:
I would suggest we go for option C, it???s really not ripe???s job to provide nor endorse any brokers.
I suggest B as we're not asking ripe to endorse them, we're asking ripe to provide a reputation registry for members to populate, much like ebay does for vendors. Ones who go bad will be kicked out leaving a trail and less scope to cause harm than in a black market. brandon
I vote for B too and i think that it will be a good thing to create a policy that brokers need to accept, maybe it can be a good thing to update the LIR portal to permit the LIR to contact the broker and operate the transfer inside the portal itself and with the negotiations regulated by RIPE NCC, this is, in part, already done but i mean the following, RIPE NCC can do a sort of man in the middle for the negotiations between LIR and broker and operate the money transfer, for example, LIR transfer money to RIPE NCC, when IP transfer is completed, RIPE NCC transfer money to the broker, perhaps with a cost limitation and a fee for RIPE NCC for the transfer (a sort of PayPal) with a dispute manager, or another interesting thing is to implement a sort of auction so the best offer can win (with cost limitations so the smaller LIR can afford the cost). Alessandro Bondesan 4ALL Net Global srl AS50316 -----Messaggio originale----- Da: members-discuss [mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net] Per conto di Brandon Butterworth Inviato: giovedì 19 dicembre 2019 11:10 A: Lu Heng Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net Oggetto: Re: [members-discuss] Feedback Requested: RIPE NCC Broker List On Thu Dec 19, 2019 at 05:42:45PM +0800, Lu Heng wrote:
I would suggest we go for option C, it???s really not ripe???s job to provide nor endorse any brokers.
I suggest B as we're not asking ripe to endorse them, we're asking ripe to provide a reputation registry for members to populate, much like ebay does for vendors. Ones who go bad will be kicked out leaving a trail and less scope to cause harm than in a black market. brandon _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/a.bondesan%40netgloba...
Alessandro. That is the job of the broker already. Regards --- NOC xervers | +351 300 404 316 P Please consider the environment before printing this email [1] [2] [3] [4] A 2019-12-19 11:18, Alessandro Bondesan escreveu:
I vote for B too and i think that it will be a good thing to create a policy that brokers need to accept, maybe it can be a good thing to update the LIR portal to permit the LIR to contact the broker and operate the transfer inside the portal itself and with the negotiations regulated by RIPE NCC, this is, in part, already done but i mean the following, RIPE NCC can do a sort of man in the middle for the negotiations between LIR and broker and operate the money transfer, for example, LIR transfer money to RIPE NCC, when IP transfer is completed, RIPE NCC transfer money to the broker, perhaps with a cost limitation and a fee for RIPE NCC for the transfer (a sort of PayPal) with a dispute manager, or another interesting thing is to implement a sort of auction so the best offer can win (with cost limitations so the smaller LIR can afford the cost).
Alessandro Bondesan 4ALL
Net Global srl AS50316
-----Messaggio originale----- Da: members-discuss [mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net] Per conto di Brandon Butterworth Inviato: giovedì 19 dicembre 2019 11:10 A: Lu Heng Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net Oggetto: Re: [members-discuss] Feedback Requested: RIPE NCC Broker List
On Thu Dec 19, 2019 at 05:42:45PM +0800, Lu Heng wrote:
I would suggest we go for option C, it???s really not ripe???s job to provide nor endorse any brokers.
I suggest B as we're not asking ripe to endorse them, we're asking ripe to provide a reputation registry for members to populate, much like ebay does for vendors. Ones who go bad will be kicked out leaving a trail and less scope to cause harm than in a black market.
brandon
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Alessandro, I think that the RIPE NCC should not be(come) a bank. Everyone else I can understand B, but also C. If we have to go for B, there are a few things we must change: page: https://www.ripe.net/manage-ips-and-asns/resource-transfers-and-mergers/tran... says "brokers are not endorsed by the RIPE NCC" and page: https://www.ripe.net/manage-ips-and-asns/resource-transfers-and-mergers/brok... mentions them anyway. if we want to keep B the section 6 in the agreement with the broker: https://www.ripe.net/manage-ips-and-asns/resource-transfers-and-mergers/brok... should more explicit mention the misuse of the database and other rules and the termination can be immediate (?). (maybe an amendment for the current ones?) Rgds, Ray For Internal Use Only -----Original Message----- From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> On Behalf Of Alessandro Bondesan Sent: 19. joulukuuta 2019 12:19 To: members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: [members-discuss] R: Feedback Requested: RIPE NCC Broker List I vote for B too and i think that it will be a good thing to create a policy that brokers need to accept, maybe it can be a good thing to update the LIR portal to permit the LIR to contact the broker and operate the transfer inside the portal itself and with the negotiations regulated by RIPE NCC, this is, in part, already done but i mean the following, RIPE NCC can do a sort of man in the middle for the negotiations between LIR and broker and operate the money transfer, for example, LIR transfer money to RIPE NCC, when IP transfer is completed, RIPE NCC transfer money to the broker, perhaps with a cost limitation and a fee for RIPE NCC for the transfer (a sort of PayPal) with a dispute manager, or another interesting thing is to implement a sort of auction so the best offer can win (with cost limitations so the smaller LIR can afford the cost). Alessandro Bondesan 4ALL Net Global srl AS50316 -----Messaggio originale----- Da: members-discuss [mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net] Per conto di Brandon Butterworth Inviato: giovedì 19 dicembre 2019 11:10 A: Lu Heng Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net Oggetto: Re: [members-discuss] Feedback Requested: RIPE NCC Broker List On Thu Dec 19, 2019 at 05:42:45PM +0800, Lu Heng wrote:
I would suggest we go for option C, it???s really not ripe???s job to provide nor endorse any brokers.
I suggest B as we're not asking ripe to endorse them, we're asking ripe to provide a reputation registry for members to populate, much like ebay does for vendors. Ones who go bad will be kicked out leaving a trail and less scope to cause harm than in a black market. brandon _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/a.bondesan%40netgloba... _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/raymond.jetten%40elis...
I would say RIPE NCC should become the broker for its members. It's quite clear that most ipv4 transfers are sales, nobody would give back a valuable resource. Why not make it easy, simple and transparent? List the block for sale via RIPE, see all listings and prices, buy it via RIPE. Regards, Bogdan On 12/19/2019 12:44 PM, Jetten Raymond wrote:
Alessandro,
I think that the RIPE NCC should not be(come) a bank.
Everyone else
I can understand B, but also C. If we have to go for B, there are a few things we must change: page: https://www.ripe.net/manage-ips-and-asns/resource-transfers-and-mergers/tran... says "brokers are not endorsed by the RIPE NCC" and page: https://www.ripe.net/manage-ips-and-asns/resource-transfers-and-mergers/brok... mentions them anyway.
if we want to keep B the section 6 in the agreement with the broker: https://www.ripe.net/manage-ips-and-asns/resource-transfers-and-mergers/brok... should more explicit mention the misuse of the database and other rules and the termination can be immediate (?). (maybe an amendment for the current ones?)
Rgds,
Ray
For Internal Use Only
-----Original Message----- From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> On Behalf Of Alessandro Bondesan Sent: 19. joulukuuta 2019 12:19 To: members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: [members-discuss] R: Feedback Requested: RIPE NCC Broker List
I vote for B too and i think that it will be a good thing to create a policy that brokers need to accept, maybe it can be a good thing to update the LIR portal to permit the LIR to contact the broker and operate the transfer inside the portal itself and with the negotiations regulated by RIPE NCC, this is, in part, already done but i mean the following, RIPE NCC can do a sort of man in the middle for the negotiations between LIR and broker and operate the money transfer, for example, LIR transfer money to RIPE NCC, when IP transfer is completed, RIPE NCC transfer money to the broker, perhaps with a cost limitation and a fee for RIPE NCC for the transfer (a sort of PayPal) with a dispute manager, or another interesting thing is to implement a sort of auction so the best offer can win (with cost limitations so the smaller LIR can afford the cost).
Alessandro Bondesan 4ALL
Net Global srl AS50316
-----Messaggio originale----- Da: members-discuss [mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net] Per conto di Brandon Butterworth Inviato: giovedì 19 dicembre 2019 11:10 A: Lu Heng Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net Oggetto: Re: [members-discuss] Feedback Requested: RIPE NCC Broker List
I would suggest we go for option C, it???s really not ripe???s job to provide nor endorse any brokers. I suggest B as we're not asking ripe to endorse them, we're asking ripe to provide a reputation registry for members to
On Thu Dec 19, 2019 at 05:42:45PM +0800, Lu Heng wrote: populate, much like ebay does for vendors. Ones who go bad will be kicked out leaving a trail and less scope to cause harm than in a black market.
brandon
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+1 ;) -- S pozdravem Z.Lebiš ign.cz internet, s.r.o. 605 830 328 Dne 19. 12. 19 v 14:23 Redcluster napsal(a):
I would say RIPE NCC should become the broker for its members.
It's quite clear that most ipv4 transfers are sales, nobody would give back a valuable resource.
Why not make it easy, simple and transparent? List the block for sale via RIPE, see all listings and prices, buy it via RIPE.
Regards,
Bogdan
On 12/19/2019 12:44 PM, Jetten Raymond wrote:
Alessandro,
I think that the RIPE NCC should not be(come) a bank.
Everyone else
I can understand B, but also C. If we have to go for B, there are a few things we must change: page: https://www.ripe.net/manage-ips-and-asns/resource-transfers-and-mergers/tran... says "brokers are not endorsed by the RIPE NCC" and page: https://www.ripe.net/manage-ips-and-asns/resource-transfers-and-mergers/brok...
mentions them anyway.
if we want to keep B the section 6 in the agreement with the broker: https://www.ripe.net/manage-ips-and-asns/resource-transfers-and-mergers/brok...
should more explicit mention the misuse of the database and other rules and the termination can be immediate (?). (maybe an amendment for the current ones?)
Rgds,
Ray
For Internal Use Only
-----Original Message----- From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> On Behalf Of Alessandro Bondesan Sent: 19. joulukuuta 2019 12:19 To: members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: [members-discuss] R: Feedback Requested: RIPE NCC Broker List
I vote for B too and i think that it will be a good thing to create a policy that brokers need to accept, maybe it can be a good thing to update the LIR portal to permit the LIR to contact the broker and operate the transfer inside the portal itself and with the negotiations regulated by RIPE NCC, this is, in part, already done but i mean the following, RIPE NCC can do a sort of man in the middle for the negotiations between LIR and broker and operate the money transfer, for example, LIR transfer money to RIPE NCC, when IP transfer is completed, RIPE NCC transfer money to the broker, perhaps with a cost limitation and a fee for RIPE NCC for the transfer (a sort of PayPal) with a dispute manager, or another interesting thing is to implement a sort of auction so the best offer can win (with cost limitations so the smaller LIR can afford the cost).
Alessandro Bondesan 4ALL
Net Global srl AS50316
-----Messaggio originale----- Da: members-discuss [mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net] Per conto di Brandon Butterworth Inviato: giovedì 19 dicembre 2019 11:10 A: Lu Heng Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net Oggetto: Re: [members-discuss] Feedback Requested: RIPE NCC Broker List
I would suggest we go for option C, it???s really not ripe???s job to provide nor endorse any brokers. I suggest B as we're not asking ripe to endorse them, we're asking ripe to provide a reputation registry for members to
On Thu Dec 19, 2019 at 05:42:45PM +0800, Lu Heng wrote: populate, much like ebay does for vendors. Ones who go bad will be kicked out leaving a trail and less scope to cause harm than in a black market.
brandon
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Hello everyone. I would vote for option C for the following reasons: 1st - Is not the job of RIPE NCC to check how brokers work and their integrity. 2nd - RIPE already does verifications for the transfers. Isn't that a double job? Yes. So, a broker is not needed at all. 3rd - Personally, i am totally against that list. Having a broker list would mean that someone is doing benefit on resource transfers. Transfers between different entities should be done under the RIPE contract terms (enterprise acquisitions or same enterprise having several LIRs and regrouping them) and NOT otherwise. If someone has uneeded resources, these should be given back to RIPE. Those resources don't belong to that person/enterprise in first place. We have to keep in mind that all resources belong to RIPE and RIPE let us use them. They are NOT OUR property! Regards --- NOC xervers | +351 300 404 316 P Please consider the environment before printing this email [2] [3] [4] [5] A 2019-12-19 10:37, Schnabeltier escreveu:
Dear colleagues,
I think we have three options. I would vote for option B:
A) Keeping the list.
B) We would consider it as important to have a list of reliable brokers. The RIPE NCC would only publish information of brokers which are verified. If the majority would vote for this option, we have to find a solution how to verify the integrity of brokers.
C) We do not consider a list of reliable brokers as important. While RIPE NCC cannot or does not want to validate the integrity of brokers at this moment, the list should be removed.
------------------------- From: Christian Kaufmann <exec-board@ripe.net [1]> Sent: Thursday, 19. Dec 2019 - 10:17 CET +0100 To: members-discuss@ripe.net [1]
Subject: [members-discuss] Feedback Requested: RIPE NCC Broker List
Dear RIPE NCC members,
The Executive Board has been following this discussion and we can see general agreement for a change in the way brokers are listed on the RIPE NCC's website.
The question is whether the RIPE NCC should remove the list entirely, or otherwise take steps to improve its approach. There are pros and cons with both options.
Removing the list is straightforward and would spare the RIPE NCC a few headaches. However, it is worth considering whether the current model provides some incentive for brokers to play by the rules and what might happen if this incentive is gone.
Conversely, it's clear that some brokers are still spamming RIPE Database contacts. Is this the only problem we are seeking to eliminate here, or are there others? Could an updated set of terms or a stricter approach by the RIPE NCC help to mitigate this?
Before the board makes its decision, we would like to hear your thoughts on this list.
Kind regards,
Christian Kaufmann RIPE NCC Executive Board Chairman
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I would vote for option B … [cid:ac_sign_c8ba7bb1-91c6-470f-8ad5-a7fd1d539ca9.png]<http://www.angolacables.com/?utm_campaign=AngolaCables&utm_source=Website&utm_medium=Traffic> Melhores Cumprimentos / Kind Regards. Lilia Carvalho Especialista de Desenvolvimento de Negócio Business Development Specialist mob: +244927686185 email: lilia.carvalho@angolacables.co.ao<mailto:lilia.carvalho@angolacables.co.ao><mailto:%%Email%%> www.angolacables.co.ao <http://www.angolacables.co.ao> AS Number: 37468 [cid:Assinatura_SACS_AO_3b112887-baeb-4bac-9127-facb51eea0fb.png]<https://www.angolacables.co.ao/sacs/#utm_source=Website_AC&utm_medium=Servi%C3%A7os&utm_campaign=SACS> Antes de imprimir esta mensagem, pense no meio ambiente. | Please consider the environment before printing this email. NOTA DE CONFIDENCIALIDADE: Esta mensagem (e eventuais ficheiros anexos) é confidencial e deverá ser lida apenas por aqueles a quem ela é dirigida. Se não é o destinatário da mesma, por favor, apague a mensagem do seu computador e destrua quaisquer cópias. É proibida a sua divulgação ou cópia sem a autorização da Angola Cables. DISCLAIMER NOTICE: This message (and any files attached) is confidential and should only be read by those to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact Angola Cables or delete the message from your computer and destroy any copies. Any distribution or copying without our prior permission is prohibited. From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> On Behalf Of Schnabeltier Sent: 19 de dezembro de 2019 10:38 To: members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Feedback Requested: RIPE NCC Broker List Dear colleagues, I think we have three options. I would vote for option B: A) Keeping the list. B) We would consider it as important to have a list of reliable brokers. The RIPE NCC would only publish information of brokers which are verified. If the majority would vote for this option, we have to find a solution how to verify the integrity of brokers. C) We do not consider a list of reliable brokers as important. While RIPE NCC cannot or does not want to validate the integrity of brokers at this moment, the list should be removed. ________________________________ From: Christian Kaufmann <exec-board@ripe.net</email/new/1/exec-board%40ripe.net>> Sent: Thursday, 19. Dec 2019 – 10:17 CET +0100 To: members-discuss@ripe.net</email/new/1/members-discuss%40ripe.net> Subject: [members-discuss] Feedback Requested: RIPE NCC Broker List Dear RIPE NCC members, The Executive Board has been following this discussion and we can see general agreement for a change in the way brokers are listed on the RIPE NCC's website. The question is whether the RIPE NCC should remove the list entirely, or otherwise take steps to improve its approach. There are pros and cons with both options. Removing the list is straightforward and would spare the RIPE NCC a few headaches. However, it is worth considering whether the current model provides some incentive for brokers to play by the rules and what might happen if this incentive is gone. Conversely, it's clear that some brokers are still spamming RIPE Database contacts. Is this the only problem we are seeking to eliminate here, or are there others? Could an updated set of terms or a stricter approach by the RIPE NCC help to mitigate this? Before the board makes its decision, we would like to hear your thoughts on this list. Kind regards, Christian Kaufmann RIPE NCC Executive Board Chairman _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net<mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/ripe-member-discuss%4...
I would also vote for option B As I completely understand that costs were associated with LIR accounts, a fee for transferring IP address spaces is justified. Assuming, the most of us did not “purchase” IP addresses before (we run out of IPv4), a source of trusted traders would be essential to make a transaction. Even better would be to get the addresses directly from the LIR. Furthermore, RIPE might suggest a price per IP address or limit the price. This would avoid excessive trading and money-making with initially “free” addresses. Best regards Maxemilian Hilbrand (Software & Systeme) CH: +41 71 511 722 0 AT (mobile): +43 660 703 92 54 <mailto:maxemilian.hilbrand@isicore.com> maxemilian.hilbrand@isicore.com isicore AG • Unterlettenstrasse 14 • CH-9443 Widnau Gerichtsstandort CH-9450 Altstätten, UID CHE-110.354.078 Verwaltungsratspräsident: Maxemilian Hilbrand <http://www.isicore.com/> www.isicore.com I <mailto:info@isicore.com> info@isicore.com Von: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> Im Auftrag von Lilia Carvalho via members-discuss Gesendet: Donnerstag, 19. Dezember 2019 15:18 An: Schnabeltier <ripe-member-discuss@cidr.eu>; members-discuss@ripe.net Betreff: Re: [members-discuss] Feedback Requested: RIPE NCC Broker List I would vote for option B … <http://www.angolacables.com/?utm_campaign=AngolaCables&utm_source=Website&utm_medium=Traffic> Melhores Cumprimentos / Kind Regards. Lilia Carvalho Especialista de Desenvolvimento de Negócio Business Development Specialist mob: +244927686185 email: lilia.carvalho@angolacables.co.ao <mailto:lilia.carvalho@angolacables.co.ao> <http://www.angolacables.co.ao> www.angolacables.co.ao AS Number: 37468 <https://www.angolacables.co.ao/sacs/#utm_source=Website_AC&utm_medium=Servi%C3%A7os&utm_campaign=SACS> Antes de imprimir esta mensagem, pense no meio ambiente. | Please consider the environment before printing this email. NOTA DE CONFIDENCIALIDADE: Esta mensagem (e eventuais ficheiros anexos) é confidencial e deverá ser lida apenas por aqueles a quem ela é dirigida. Se não é o destinatário da mesma, por favor, apague a mensagem do seu computador e destrua quaisquer cópias. É proibida a sua divulgação ou cópia sem a autorização da Angola Cables. DISCLAIMER NOTICE: This message (and any files attached) is confidential and should only be read by those to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact Angola Cables or delete the message from your computer and destroy any copies. Any distribution or copying without our prior permission is prohibited. From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> > On Behalf Of Schnabeltier Sent: 19 de dezembro de 2019 10:38 To: members-discuss@ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Feedback Requested: RIPE NCC Broker List Dear colleagues, I think we have three options. I would vote for option B: A) Keeping the list. B) We would consider it as important to have a list of reliable brokers. The RIPE NCC would only publish information of brokers which are verified. If the majority would vote for this option, we have to find a solution how to verify the integrity of brokers. C) We do not consider a list of reliable brokers as important. While RIPE NCC cannot or does not want to validate the integrity of brokers at this moment, the list should be removed. _____ From: Christian Kaufmann <exec-board@ripe.net> Sent: Thursday, 19. Dec 2019 – 10:17 CET +0100 To: members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: [members-discuss] Feedback Requested: RIPE NCC Broker List Dear RIPE NCC members, The Executive Board has been following this discussion and we can see general agreement for a change in the way brokers are listed on the RIPE NCC's website. The question is whether the RIPE NCC should remove the list entirely, or otherwise take steps to improve its approach. There are pros and cons with both options. Removing the list is straightforward and would spare the RIPE NCC a few headaches. However, it is worth considering whether the current model provides some incentive for brokers to play by the rules and what might happen if this incentive is gone. Conversely, it's clear that some brokers are still spamming RIPE Database contacts. Is this the only problem we are seeking to eliminate here, or are there others? Could an updated set of terms or a stricter approach by the RIPE NCC help to mitigate this? Before the board makes its decision, we would like to hear your thoughts on this list. Kind regards, Christian Kaufmann RIPE NCC Executive Board Chairman _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/ripe-member-discuss%4...
Hi I am not very comfortable with idea have ripe become some sort of regulatory for brokerage market... Maxemilian Hilbrand <maxemilian.hilbrand@isicore.com>于2019年12月19日 周四22:39写道：
I would also vote for option B
As I completely understand that costs were associated with LIR accounts, a fee for transferring IP address spaces is justified. Assuming, the most of us did not “purchase” IP addresses before (we run out of IPv4), a source of trusted traders would be essential to make a transaction. Even better would be to get the addresses directly from the LIR.
Furthermore, RIPE might suggest a price per IP address or limit the price. This would avoid excessive trading and money-making with initially “free” addresses.
Best regards
*Maxemilian Hilbrand* (Software & Systeme)
[image: isicore_s_small]
CH: +41 71 511 722 0 AT (mobile): +43 660 703 92 54 maxemilian.hilbrand@isicore.com
isicore AG • Unterlettenstrasse 14 • CH-9443 Widnau <https://www.google.com/maps/search/Unterlettenstrasse+14+%E2%80%A2+CH-9443+Widnau?entry=gmail&source=g> Gerichtsstandort CH-9450 Altstätten, UID CHE-110.354.078 Verwaltungsratspräsident: Maxemilian Hilbrand
www.isicore.com* I *info@isicore.com
*Von:* members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> *Im Auftrag von *Lilia Carvalho via members-discuss *Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 19. Dezember 2019 15:18 *An:* Schnabeltier <ripe-member-discuss@cidr.eu>; members-discuss@ripe.net *Betreff:* Re: [members-discuss] Feedback Requested: RIPE NCC Broker List
I would vote for option B …
<http://www.angolacables.com/?utm_campaign=AngolaCables&utm_source=Website&utm_medium=Traffic>
Melhores Cumprimentos / Kind Regards. Lilia Carvalho
Especialista de Desenvolvimento de Negócio *Business Development Specialist*
mob: +244927686185 email: lilia.carvalho@angolacables.co.ao www.angolacables.co.ao AS Number: 37468
Antes de imprimir esta mensagem, pense no meio ambiente. | Please consider the environment before printing this email.
NOTA DE CONFIDENCIALIDADE: Esta mensagem (e eventuais ficheiros anexos) é confidencial e deverá ser lida apenas por aqueles a quem ela é dirigida. Se não é o destinatário da mesma, por favor, apague a mensagem do seu computador e destrua quaisquer cópias. É proibida a sua divulgação ou cópia sem a autorização da Angola Cables. DISCLAIMER NOTICE: This message (and any files attached) is confidential and should only be read by those to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact Angola Cables or delete the message from your computer and destroy any copies. Any distribution or copying without our prior permission is prohibited.
*From:* members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> *On Behalf Of * Schnabeltier *Sent:* 19 de dezembro de 2019 10:38 *To:* members-discuss@ripe.net *Subject:* Re: [members-discuss] Feedback Requested: RIPE NCC Broker List
Dear colleagues,
I think we have three options. I would vote for option B:
A) Keeping the list.
B) We would consider it as important to have a list of reliable brokers. The RIPE NCC would only publish information of brokers which are verified. If the majority would vote for this option, we have to find a solution how to verify the integrity of brokers.
C) We do not consider a list of reliable brokers as important. While RIPE NCC cannot or does not want to validate the integrity of brokers at this moment, the list should be removed.
------------------------------
*From:* Christian Kaufmann <exec-board@ripe.net <http:///email/new/1/exec-board%40ripe.net>> *Sent:* Thursday, 19. Dec 2019 – 10:17 CET +0100 *To:* members-discuss@ripe.net <http:///email/new/1/members-discuss%40ripe.net>
*Subject:* [members-discuss] Feedback Requested: RIPE NCC Broker List
Dear RIPE NCC members,
The Executive Board has been following this discussion and we can see
general agreement for a change in the way brokers are listed on the RIPE
NCC's website.
The question is whether the RIPE NCC should remove the list entirely, or
otherwise take steps to improve its approach. There are pros and cons
with both options.
Removing the list is straightforward and would spare the RIPE NCC a few
headaches. However, it is worth considering whether the current model
provides some incentive for brokers to play by the rules and what might
happen if this incentive is gone.
Conversely, it's clear that some brokers are still spamming RIPE
Database contacts. Is this the only problem we are seeking to eliminate
here, or are there others? Could an updated set of terms or a stricter
approach by the RIPE NCC help to mitigate this?
Before the board makes its decision, we would like to hear your thoughts
on this list.
Kind regards,
Christian Kaufmann
RIPE NCC Executive Board Chairman
_______________________________________________
members-discuss mailing list
members-discuss@ripe.net
https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss
Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/ripe-member-discuss%4...
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I vote for keeping the list, and if there was a way to verify reliable brokers easily, that would be a bonus. I am not in favor of RIPE acting as a broker at this time. tim On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 9:44 AM Heng Lu <h.lu@outsideheaven.com> wrote:
Hi
I am not very comfortable with idea have ripe become some sort of regulatory for brokerage market...
Maxemilian Hilbrand <maxemilian.hilbrand@isicore.com>于2019年12月19日 周四22:39写道：
I would also vote for option B
As I completely understand that costs were associated with LIR accounts, a fee for transferring IP address spaces is justified. Assuming, the most of us did not “purchase” IP addresses before (we run out of IPv4), a source of trusted traders would be essential to make a transaction. Even better would be to get the addresses directly from the LIR.
Furthermore, RIPE might suggest a price per IP address or limit the price. This would avoid excessive trading and money-making with initially “free” addresses.
Best regards
*Maxemilian Hilbrand* (Software & Systeme)
[image: isicore_s_small]
CH: +41 71 511 722 0 AT (mobile): +43 660 703 92 54 maxemilian.hilbrand@isicore.com
isicore AG • Unterlettenstrasse 14 • CH-9443 Widnau <https://www.google.com/maps/search/Unterlettenstrasse+14+%E2%80%A2+CH-9443+Widnau?entry=gmail&source=g> Gerichtsstandort CH-9450 Altstätten, UID CHE-110.354.078 Verwaltungsratspräsident: Maxemilian Hilbrand
www.isicore.com* I *info@isicore.com
*Von:* members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> *Im Auftrag von *Lilia Carvalho via members-discuss *Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 19. Dezember 2019 15:18 *An:* Schnabeltier <ripe-member-discuss@cidr.eu>; members-discuss@ripe.net *Betreff:* Re: [members-discuss] Feedback Requested: RIPE NCC Broker List
I would vote for option B …
<http://www.angolacables.com/?utm_campaign=AngolaCables&utm_source=Website&utm_medium=Traffic>
Melhores Cumprimentos / Kind Regards. Lilia Carvalho
Especialista de Desenvolvimento de Negócio *Business Development Specialist*
mob: +244927686185 email: lilia.carvalho@angolacables.co.ao www.angolacables.co.ao AS Number: 37468
Antes de imprimir esta mensagem, pense no meio ambiente. | Please consider the environment before printing this email.
NOTA DE CONFIDENCIALIDADE: Esta mensagem (e eventuais ficheiros anexos) é confidencial e deverá ser lida apenas por aqueles a quem ela é dirigida. Se não é o destinatário da mesma, por favor, apague a mensagem do seu computador e destrua quaisquer cópias. É proibida a sua divulgação ou cópia sem a autorização da Angola Cables. DISCLAIMER NOTICE: This message (and any files attached) is confidential and should only be read by those to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact Angola Cables or delete the message from your computer and destroy any copies. Any distribution or copying without our prior permission is prohibited.
*From:* members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> *On Behalf Of *Schnabeltier *Sent:* 19 de dezembro de 2019 10:38 *To:* members-discuss@ripe.net *Subject:* Re: [members-discuss] Feedback Requested: RIPE NCC Broker List
Dear colleagues,
I think we have three options. I would vote for option B:
A) Keeping the list.
B) We would consider it as important to have a list of reliable brokers. The RIPE NCC would only publish information of brokers which are verified. If the majority would vote for this option, we have to find a solution how to verify the integrity of brokers.
C) We do not consider a list of reliable brokers as important. While RIPE NCC cannot or does not want to validate the integrity of brokers at this moment, the list should be removed.
------------------------------
*From:* Christian Kaufmann <exec-board@ripe.net <http:///email/new/1/exec-board%40ripe.net>> *Sent:* Thursday, 19. Dec 2019 – 10:17 CET +0100 *To:* members-discuss@ripe.net <http:///email/new/1/members-discuss%40ripe.net>
*Subject:* [members-discuss] Feedback Requested: RIPE NCC Broker List
Dear RIPE NCC members,
The Executive Board has been following this discussion and we can see
general agreement for a change in the way brokers are listed on the RIPE
NCC's website.
The question is whether the RIPE NCC should remove the list entirely, or
otherwise take steps to improve its approach. There are pros and cons
with both options.
Removing the list is straightforward and would spare the RIPE NCC a few
headaches. However, it is worth considering whether the current model
provides some incentive for brokers to play by the rules and what might
happen if this incentive is gone.
Conversely, it's clear that some brokers are still spamming RIPE
Database contacts. Is this the only problem we are seeking to eliminate
here, or are there others? Could an updated set of terms or a stricter
approach by the RIPE NCC help to mitigate this?
Before the board makes its decision, we would like to hear your thoughts
on this list.
Kind regards,
Christian Kaufmann
RIPE NCC Executive Board Chairman
_______________________________________________
members-discuss mailing list
members-discuss@ripe.net
https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss
Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/ripe-member-discuss%4...
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Hello everyone, ----- Исходное сообщение -----
Dear colleagues,
I think we have three options. I would vote for option B:
A) Keeping the list.
B) We would consider it as important to have a list of reliable brokers. The RIPE NCC would only publish information of brokers which are verified. If the majority would vote for this option, we have to find a solution how to verify the integrity of brokers.
B) is my choice. Because i believe we do not need revolution, we need evolution. Also, some colleague talk about termination of free market of ip address. In other words - do not allow any transfer beetween market members except aquistion and reorganization cases. Please, recall domain market situation - following such offer we will stop any domain selling/buying on market and only way to getting prefered domain name will be registering new domain. Rememeber, registrant is not owner of domain, he only get rights to use domain name for time when registration is paid (same situation like ip address and RIR). Best Regards, Azer
C) We do not consider a list of reliable brokers as important. While RIPE NCC cannot or does not want to validate the integrity of brokers at this moment, the list should be removed.
From: Christian Kaufmann < exec-board@ripe.net > Sent: Thursday, 19. Dec 2019 – 10:17 CET +0100 To: members-discuss@ripe.net
Subject: [members-discuss] Feedback Requested: RIPE NCC Broker List
Dear RIPE NCC members,
The Executive Board has been following this discussion and we can see general agreement for a change in the way brokers are listed on the RIPE NCC's website.
The question is whether the RIPE NCC should remove the list entirely, or otherwise take steps to improve its approach. There are pros and cons with both options.
Removing the list is straightforward and would spare the RIPE NCC a few headaches. However, it is worth considering whether the current model provides some incentive for brokers to play by the rules and what might happen if this incentive is gone.
Conversely, it's clear that some brokers are still spamming RIPE Database contacts. Is this the only problem we are seeking to eliminate here, or are there others? Could an updated set of terms or a stricter approach by the RIPE NCC help to mitigate this?
Before the board makes its decision, we would like to hear your thoughts on this list.
Kind regards,
Christian Kaufmann RIPE NCC Executive Board Chairman
_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/ripe-member-discuss%4... _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/azer%40karyagdy.com
participants (17)
-
Alessandro Bondesan -
Azer Karyagdy -
Brandon Butterworth -
Christian.kroeger -
Heng Lu -
INANA Group -
Jetten Raymond -
Leo De Geer -
Lilia Carvalho -
Lu Heng
-
Maxemilian Hilbrand -
NOC xervers -
Redcluster -
Rob Evans -
Schnabeltier -
Tim Wicinski -
Zdeněk Lebiš