Sustainability and diversity
Dear community, I understand that - RIPE needs more money to keep the quality of services - thousands of LIRs create much more work for RIPE team But killing most of the smaller LIRs by very non-linear pricing will LOWER the business competition and finally create very HIGH prices for all Internet end-users and LOW income for RIPE. RIPE team, please try to think about it. I hope, you can find the best way for the sustainability and diversity of the environment ;) -- S přáním hezkého dne / Best regards Václav Nesvadba CTO nesvadba@faster.cz | +420 533 433 343 | Jarní 44g, 614 00 Brno | FASTER.CZ
Nobody kills MOST of the smaller LIRs with it. Please stop this hyperbole. It does not make any of the claims more true, valid, or trustworthy. It does not help at all. This is your call, this is member-based and governed. Contribute instead of (only) complaining. Put something together, present it to the mailing-list, and get a vote on it. This is how RIPE works. -- Kind Regards Sebastian Von: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> im Auftrag von Vaclav Nesvadba <venca@faster.cz> Datum: Donnerstag, 16. Mai 2024 um 12:56 An: members-discuss@ripe.net <members-discuss@ripe.net> Betreff: [members-discuss] Sustainability and diversity Dear community, I understand that - RIPE needs more money to keep the quality of services - thousands of LIRs create much more work for RIPE team But killing most of the smaller LIRs by very non-linear pricing will LOWER the business competition and finally create very HIGH prices for all Internet end-users and LOW income for RIPE. RIPE team, please try to think about it. I hope, you can find the best way for the sustainability and diversity of the environment ;) -- S přáním hezkého dne / Best regards Václav Nesvadba CTO nesvadba@faster.cz | +420 533 433 343 | Jarní 44g, 614 00 Brno | FASTER.CZ
"put something forward"... Many members have put forward potential schemes on this list. Many members have put forward and voted for a point to be added to the agenda regarding the charging scheme (checking, this proposal has more than 700 signatures to date). To wich the boards reaction was basically them not adding any options based on feedback.... Then when people appear to be complaing about that, you say "put something forward", when in reality this has happened quite a bit during this discussion. So i am not sure what other things you would have wanted them to do, please do clarify. regards On 5/16/24 2:26 PM, Sebastian-Becker@telekom.de wrote:
Nobody kills MOST of the smaller LIRs with it.
Please stop this hyperbole. It does not make any of the claims more true, valid, or trustworthy. It does not help at all.
This is your call, this is member-based and governed. Contribute instead of (only) complaining. Put something together, present it to the mailing-list, and get a vote on it. This is how RIPE works.
--
Kind Regards
Sebastian
*Von: *members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> im Auftrag von Vaclav Nesvadba <venca@faster.cz> *Datum: *Donnerstag, 16. Mai 2024 um 12:56 *An: *members-discuss@ripe.net <members-discuss@ripe.net> *Betreff: *[members-discuss] Sustainability and diversity
Dear community, I understand that - RIPE needs more money to keep the quality of services - thousands of LIRs create much more work for RIPE team
But killing most of the smaller LIRs by very non-linear pricing will LOWER the business competition and finally create very HIGH prices for all Internet end-users and LOW income for RIPE.
RIPE team, please try to think about it. I hope, you can find the best way for the sustainability and diversity of the environment ;)
-- S přáním hezkého dne / Best regards Václav Nesvadba CTO
nesvadba@faster.cz | +420 533 433 343 | Jarní 44g, 614 00 Brno | FASTER.CZ
_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe:https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/ripe-members%40sebast...
On 16. 5. 24 14:33, Sebastian-Wilhelm Graf wrote:
"put something forward"...
Many members have put forward potential schemes on this list. Many members have put forward and voted for a point to be added to the agenda regarding the charging scheme (checking, this proposal has more than 700 signatures to date).
To wich the boards reaction was basically them not adding any options based on feedback.... Then when people appear to be complaing about that This has been repeated for the n-th time already.
EB can't put an option of a lower budget (and members fee) on the agenda as they need to follow the (accepted by RIPE NCC members) activity plan and assure the budget for it. Period. At this point lower budget is not possible. You are all barking at the wrong tree. When the activity plan comes into a discussion at (and prior to the GM) - that's the time to start proposing changes if you really want them. Cheers, Jan
Thank you, you were quicker. +1 Von: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> im Auftrag von Jan Zorz - Go6 <jan@go6.si> Datum: Donnerstag, 16. Mai 2024 um 14:49 An: members-discuss@ripe.net <members-discuss@ripe.net> Betreff: Re: [members-discuss] Sustainability and diversity On 16. 5. 24 14:33, Sebastian-Wilhelm Graf wrote:
"put something forward"...
Many members have put forward potential schemes on this list. Many members have put forward and voted for a point to be added to the agenda regarding the charging scheme (checking, this proposal has more than 700 signatures to date).
To wich the boards reaction was basically them not adding any options based on feedback.... Then when people appear to be complaing about that This has been repeated for the n-th time already.
EB can't put an option of a lower budget (and members fee) on the agenda as they need to follow the (accepted by RIPE NCC members) activity plan and assure the budget for it. Period. At this point lower budget is not possible. You are all barking at the wrong tree. When the activity plan comes into a discussion at (and prior to the GM) - that's the time to start proposing changes if you really want them. Cheers, Jan _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://deu01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.ripe.net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fmembers-discuss&data=05%7C02%7CSebastian-Becker%40telekom.de%7C4bfc4cd47a7840ee64e708dc75a6ac23%7Cbde4dffc4b604cf68b04a5eeb25f5c4f%7C0%7C0%7C638514605938538518%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=sBL1oFSaM58%2Bh18EtQN2Y5uCdRVvdbHSudmOo3trrp8%3D&reserved=0<https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss> Unsubscribe: https://deu01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.ripe.net%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fmembers-discuss%2Fsebastian-becker%2540telekom.de&data=05%7C02%7CSebastian-Becker%40telekom.de%7C4bfc4cd47a7840ee64e708dc75a6ac23%7Cbde4dffc4b604cf68b04a5eeb25f5c4f%7C0%7C0%7C638514605938549012%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=fX8T31lQ2%2BrrUpF%2Fsp%2F%2BLll19x7M0OCSngDUQbsrl50%3D&reserved=0<https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/sebastian-becker%40telekom.de>
+100 -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains https://www.blacknight.com/ https://blacknight.blog/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Personal blog: https://michele.blog/ Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/ ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845 I have sent this email at a time that is convenient for me. I do not expect you to respond to it outside of your usual working hours. From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Jan Zorz - Go6 <jan@go6.si> Date: Thursday, 16 May 2024 at 08:49 To: members-discuss@ripe.net <members-discuss@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Sustainability and diversity [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Please use caution when opening attachments from unrecognised sources. On 16. 5. 24 14:33, Sebastian-Wilhelm Graf wrote:
"put something forward"...
Many members have put forward potential schemes on this list. Many members have put forward and voted for a point to be added to the agenda regarding the charging scheme (checking, this proposal has more than 700 signatures to date).
To wich the boards reaction was basically them not adding any options based on feedback.... Then when people appear to be complaing about that This has been repeated for the n-th time already.
EB can't put an option of a lower budget (and members fee) on the agenda as they need to follow the (accepted by RIPE NCC members) activity plan and assure the budget for it. Period. At this point lower budget is not possible. You are all barking at the wrong tree. When the activity plan comes into a discussion at (and prior to the GM) - that's the time to start proposing changes if you really want them. Cheers, Jan _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/michele%40blacknight....
If EB can't put lower plan which of course they can, by implementing like other RIRs charge per resource holder, then, they can put in agenda this kind of policy instead of ignoring more than 700+ LIR members Period! On Thu, May 16, 2024 at 2:48 PM Jan Zorz - Go6 <jan@go6.si> wrote:
On 16. 5. 24 14:33, Sebastian-Wilhelm Graf wrote:
"put something forward"...
Many members have put forward potential schemes on this list. Many members have put forward and voted for a point to be added to the agenda regarding the charging scheme (checking, this proposal has more than 700 signatures to date).
To wich the boards reaction was basically them not adding any options based on feedback.... Then when people appear to be complaing about that This has been repeated for the n-th time already.
EB can't put an option of a lower budget (and members fee) on the agenda as they need to follow the (accepted by RIPE NCC members) activity plan and assure the budget for it. Period. At this point lower budget is not possible.
You are all barking at the wrong tree. When the activity plan comes into a discussion at (and prior to the GM) - that's the time to start proposing changes if you really want them.
Cheers, Jan
_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/mentor.leniqi%40albah...
the "accepted by RIPE NCC members" is a really sore point for many from the looks. As far as this discussion has revealed: - the activity plan is put forward by the Board, with no mechanism to influence it directly. Certainly members may provide imputs or as some may have have called it during this discussion - complain, or put forward suggestions, but there is no direct mechanism for control, other than removing the board (wich really does not improve that situation, or anything related to stability). So the timing on this should not matter. There is no "official period" anyway. - As far as i can tell the Activity plan was never voted on. (feel free to correct me and link me to when the vote took place). - The activity plan also does not dictate how the charging should work. So i do not see why we cannot have a discussion about keeping fee levels the same and reducing reserves, or having a more differentiated charging scheme based on resources, tickets, or whatever other metric. Futhermore weather we regard this as "the wrong tree", i think 700 members taking the time to sign any type of petition should show that some things need to be re-evaluated and disucssed now, other than deferring to a later point. What i would also like to see (but sadly do not have the time to do) is count the number of unique member-addresses arguing for/against any charging scheme and/or activity plan in this discussion. How many where in favor, how many against? Just so that we have some numbers to go with this as well. I would also like to note that a productive conversation should always be able to take place. So as a sidenote i am actually quite surprised to find that people are trying to unsubscribe other members from the mailing list. After the last post i recieved until sending this response a couple of minutes later), 3 emails showing that someone tried to unsubscribe me from the list. Offending IP-Address: 185.162.48.60 Regards On 5/16/24 2:48 PM, Jan Zorz - Go6 wrote:
On 16. 5. 24 14:33, Sebastian-Wilhelm Graf wrote:
"put something forward"...
Many members have put forward potential schemes on this list. Many members have put forward and voted for a point to be added to the agenda regarding the charging scheme (checking, this proposal has more than 700 signatures to date).
To wich the boards reaction was basically them not adding any options based on feedback.... Then when people appear to be complaing about that This has been repeated for the n-th time already.
EB can't put an option of a lower budget (and members fee) on the agenda as they need to follow the (accepted by RIPE NCC members) activity plan and assure the budget for it. Period. At this point lower budget is not possible.
You are all barking at the wrong tree. When the activity plan comes into a discussion at (and prior to the GM) - that's the time to start proposing changes if you really want them.
Cheers, Jan
_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe:https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/ripe-members%40sebast...
Wait a little bit longer, and you will receive alot notification to unsubscribe from multiple IPs, and even password recovery notification. On Thu, May 16, 2024 at 3:16 PM Sebastian-Wilhelm Graf < ripe-members@sebastian-graf.at> wrote:
the "accepted by RIPE NCC members" is a really sore point for many from the looks.
As far as this discussion has revealed:
- the activity plan is put forward by the Board, with no mechanism to influence it directly. Certainly members may provide imputs or as some may have have called it during this discussion - complain, or put forward suggestions, but there is no direct mechanism for control, other than removing the board (wich really does not improve that situation, or anything related to stability). So the timing on this should not matter. There is no "official period" anyway.
- As far as i can tell the Activity plan was never voted on. (feel free to correct me and link me to when the vote took place).
- The activity plan also does not dictate how the charging should work. So i do not see why we cannot have a discussion about keeping fee levels the same and reducing reserves, or having a more differentiated charging scheme based on resources, tickets, or whatever other metric.
Futhermore weather we regard this as "the wrong tree", i think 700 members taking the time to sign any type of petition should show that some things need to be re-evaluated and disucssed now, other than deferring to a later point.
What i would also like to see (but sadly do not have the time to do) is count the number of unique member-addresses arguing for/against any charging scheme and/or activity plan in this discussion. How many where in favor, how many against? Just so that we have some numbers to go with this as well.
I would also like to note that a productive conversation should always be able to take place. So as a sidenote i am actually quite surprised to find that people are trying to unsubscribe other members from the mailing list. After the last post i recieved until sending this response a couple of minutes later), 3 emails showing that someone tried to unsubscribe me from the list. Offending IP-Address: 185.162.48.60
Regards
On 5/16/24 2:48 PM, Jan Zorz - Go6 wrote:
On 16. 5. 24 14:33, Sebastian-Wilhelm Graf wrote:
"put something forward"...
Many members have put forward potential schemes on this list. Many members have put forward and voted for a point to be added to the agenda regarding the charging scheme (checking, this proposal has more than 700 signatures to date).
To wich the boards reaction was basically them not adding any options based on feedback.... Then when people appear to be complaing about that
This has been repeated for the n-th time already.
EB can't put an option of a lower budget (and members fee) on the agenda as they need to follow the (accepted by RIPE NCC members) activity plan and assure the budget for it. Period. At this point lower budget is not possible.
You are all barking at the wrong tree. When the activity plan comes into a discussion at (and prior to the GM) - that's the time to start proposing changes if you really want them.
Cheers, Jan
_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing listmembers-discuss@ripe.nethttps://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/ripe-members%40sebast...
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Alex Le Heux Network Architect Tucows Inc / Ting Fiber aleheux@tucowsinc.com
On 16 May 2024, at 15:15, Sebastian-Wilhelm Graf <ripe-members@sebastian-graf.at> wrote:
the "accepted by RIPE NCC members" is a really sore point for many from the looks. As far as this discussion has revealed: - the activity plan is put forward by the Board, with no mechanism to influence it directly. Certainly members may provide imputs or as some may have have called it during this discussion - complain, or put forward suggestions, but there is no direct mechanism for control, other than removing the board (wich really does not improve that situation, or anything related to stability). So the timing on this should not matter. There is no "official period" anyway.
It may be a “sort point” but said members have not ever even tried to influence the activity plan, so complaining about it now is a little childish. Maybe they should provide input into the activity plan first. I have yet to see any on the members-discuss mailing list.
- As far as i can tell the Activity plan was never voted on. (feel free to correct me and link me to when the vote took place). - The activity plan also does not dictate how the charging should work. So i do not see why we cannot have a discussion about keeping fee levels the same and reducing reserves, or having a more differentiated charging scheme based on resources, tickets, or whatever other metric. Futhermore weather we regard this as "the wrong tree", i think 700 members taking the time to sign any type of petition should show that some things need to be re-evaluated and disucssed now, other than deferring to a later point. What i would also like to see (but sadly do not have the time to do) is count the number of unique member-addresses arguing for/against any charging scheme and/or activity plan in this discussion. How many where in favor, how many against? Just so that we have some numbers to go with this as well. I would also like to note that a productive conversation should always be able to take place. So as a sidenote i am actually quite surprised to find that people are trying to unsubscribe other members from the mailing list. After the last post i recieved until sending this response a couple of minutes later), 3 emails showing that someone tried to unsubscribe me from the list. Offending IP-Address: 185.162.48.60
Same thing happened to me. Alex
Regards
On 5/16/24 2:48 PM, Jan Zorz - Go6 wrote:
On 16. 5. 24 14:33, Sebastian-Wilhelm Graf wrote:
"put something forward"...
Many members have put forward potential schemes on this list. Many members have put forward and voted for a point to be added to the agenda regarding the charging scheme (checking, this proposal has more than 700 signatures to date).
To wich the boards reaction was basically them not adding any options based on feedback.... Then when people appear to be complaing about that
This has been repeated for the n-th time already.
EB can't put an option of a lower budget (and members fee) on the agenda as they need to follow the (accepted by RIPE NCC members) activity plan and assure the budget for it. Period. At this point lower budget is not possible.
You are all barking at the wrong tree. When the activity plan comes into a discussion at (and prior to the GM) - that's the time to start proposing changes if you really want them.
Cheers, Jan
_______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/ripe-members%40sebast...
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On Thu, May 16, 2024 at 03:15:50PM +0200, Sebastian-Wilhelm Graf wrote: Hi,
I would also like to note that a productive conversation should always be able to take place. So as a sidenote i am actually quite surprised to find that people are trying to unsubscribe other members from the mailing list. After the last post i recieved until sending this response a couple of minutes later), 3 emails showing that someone tried to unsubscribe me from the list. Offending IP-Address: 185.162.48.60
This could be because people click on the unsubscribe link included in the quoted reply. And that link contains your email address. Best, Piotr -- Piotr Strzyżewski
Hi, On Thu, May 16, 2024 at 03:52:55PM +0200, Piotr Strzyzewski wrote:
This could be because people click on the unsubscribe link included in the quoted reply. And that link contains your email address.
It might even be some super-smart anti-spam appliances doing so... ("check links if there is malware hiding"). So what do we learn from that? "Better quoting is needed" :-) Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard, Ingo Lalla, Karin Schuler, Sebastian Cler Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279
Not to quibble but I think we need to be a bit more precise. The members have not formally accepted the activity plan, the Executive Board have. The members where provided the chance to give input on the activity plan. While this might not seem like a major difference, I think part of the problem is exactly this. Perhaps the members SHOULD vote on the activity plan? At least the members might read it then….. Best Regards, - kurtis - -- Kurt Erik Lindqvist, CEO T: +44 (0) 20 7645 3528 | www.linx.net<http://www.linx.net/> [b8dd7c7e-5b7a-4bb3-bf55-4265639a41be]<https://www.linx.net/> London Internet Exchange Ltd (LINX) C/O WeWork, 2 Minister Court, London, EC3R 7BB, United Kingdom Registered in England number 3137929 [09f5285b-9bf5-4663-a1d5-f335264499f8]<https://twitter.com/linx_network>[0ab2af08-4510-4094-a068-c92129623c5c]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/linx>[34761a22-8ab1-4259-b5a4-c45509cfc94a]<https://www.facebook.com/LondonInternetExchange/>[591060a6-addb-47a4-a833-1c93e4b644f4]<https://www.youtube.com/user/LINXnetwork> From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Jan Zorz - Go6 <jan@go6.si> Date: Thursday, 16 May 2024 at 13:49 To: members-discuss@ripe.net <members-discuss@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Sustainability and diversity On 16. 5. 24 14:33, Sebastian-Wilhelm Graf wrote:
"put something forward"...
Many members have put forward potential schemes on this list. Many members have put forward and voted for a point to be added to the agenda regarding the charging scheme (checking, this proposal has more than 700 signatures to date).
To wich the boards reaction was basically them not adding any options based on feedback.... Then when people appear to be complaing about that This has been repeated for the n-th time already.
EB can't put an option of a lower budget (and members fee) on the agenda as they need to follow the (accepted by RIPE NCC members) activity plan and assure the budget for it. Period. At this point lower budget is not possible. You are all barking at the wrong tree. When the activity plan comes into a discussion at (and prior to the GM) - that's the time to start proposing changes if you really want them. Cheers, Jan _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.ripe.net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fmembers-discuss&data=05%7C02%7Ckurtis%40linx.net%7Cc8f2c9373bae477f4d0d08dc75a6a315%7C568b2c3522ad4ee08b90f034db231579%7C0%7C0%7C638514605795570614%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C4000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Cks9L02OzgAOQ2JncbCXYvvU4Xu0Wh5OqUNchEekcac%3D&reserved=0<https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss> Unsubscribe: https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.ripe.net%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fmembers-discuss%2Fkurtis%2540linx.net&data=05%7C02%7Ckurtis%40linx.net%7Cc8f2c9373bae477f4d0d08dc75a6a315%7C568b2c3522ad4ee08b90f034db231579%7C0%7C0%7C638514605795581063%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C4000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=SbMR16X8El%2Fv09Ol6EJP0v8Q%2BfNAr2EN3LJ4OrFK8PA%3D&reserved=0<https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/kurtis%40linx.net>
Kurtis, actually the issue is that EB presented the model A, B, C which are almost all the same just a little bit different, and offer no ability to reject, if you abstain your vote is not counted. The most outrageous is that it is enough 27 members to vote for one of this plan to be implemented/accepted. And other members 700+ who are against it nobody cares about them. On Thu, May 16, 2024 at 3:31 PM Kurtis Lindqvist <kurtis@linx.net> wrote:
Not to quibble but I think we need to be a bit more precise. The members have not formally accepted the activity plan, the Executive Board have. The members where provided the chance to give input on the activity plan.
While this might not seem like a major difference, I think part of the problem is exactly this. Perhaps the members SHOULD vote on the activity plan? At least the members might read it then…..
Best Regards,
- kurtis -
--
*Kurt Erik Lindqvist, CEO*
T: +44 (0) 20 7645 3528 | www.linx.net
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*From: *members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Jan Zorz - Go6 <jan@go6.si> *Date: *Thursday, 16 May 2024 at 13:49 *To: *members-discuss@ripe.net <members-discuss@ripe.net> *Subject: *Re: [members-discuss] Sustainability and diversity
On 16. 5. 24 14:33, Sebastian-Wilhelm Graf wrote:
"put something forward"...
Many members have put forward potential schemes on this list. Many members have put forward and voted for a point to be added to the agenda regarding the charging scheme (checking, this proposal has more than 700 signatures to date).
To wich the boards reaction was basically them not adding any options based on feedback.... Then when people appear to be complaing about that This has been repeated for the n-th time already.
EB can't put an option of a lower budget (and members fee) on the agenda as they need to follow the (accepted by RIPE NCC members) activity plan and assure the budget for it. Period. At this point lower budget is not possible.
You are all barking at the wrong tree. When the activity plan comes into a discussion at (and prior to the GM) - that's the time to start proposing changes if you really want them.
Cheers, Jan
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On 16. 5. 24 15:34, Mentor Leniqi via members-discuss wrote:
The most outrageous is that it is enough 27 members to vote for one of this plan to be implemented/accepted. And other members 700+ who are against it nobody cares about them.
I'm completely confused by the mix of misconceptions in the above text :) Maybe you can find your answers here: https://www.ripe.net/membership/mail/member-and-community-consultations/char... Cheers, Jan
On 16. 5. 24 15:30, Kurtis Lindqvist wrote:
Not to quibble but I think we need to be a bit more precise. The members have not formally accepted the activity plan, the Executive Board have. The members where provided the chance to give input on the activity plan.
I did not go and check - but was there any input given by any member?
While this might not seem like a major difference, I think part of the problem is exactly this. Perhaps the members SHOULD vote on the activity plan? At least the members might read it then…..
That might be a good idea, but at the same time this might render the GMs muuuuch longer :) Cheers, Jan
I am not on the EB, but at the GM (from the video) Hans-Petter says there had been input and email discussions and that RIPE NCC would take these into account before publishing to the EB, so I would assume so….not sure how much or on what topics as I haven’t gone back and checked the NCC Services or members-discuss mailing lists. Best Regards, - kurtis - -- Kurt Erik Lindqvist, CEO T: +44 (0) 20 7645 3528 | www.linx.net<http://www.linx.net/> [b8dd7c7e-5b7a-4bb3-bf55-4265639a41be]<https://www.linx.net/> London Internet Exchange Ltd (LINX) C/O WeWork, 2 Minister Court, London, EC3R 7BB, United Kingdom Registered in England number 3137929 [09f5285b-9bf5-4663-a1d5-f335264499f8]<https://twitter.com/linx_network>[0ab2af08-4510-4094-a068-c92129623c5c]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/linx>[34761a22-8ab1-4259-b5a4-c45509cfc94a]<https://www.facebook.com/LondonInternetExchange/>[591060a6-addb-47a4-a833-1c93e4b644f4]<https://www.youtube.com/user/LINXnetwork> From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Jan Zorz - Go6 <jan@go6.si> Date: Thursday, 16 May 2024 at 15:27 To: members-discuss@ripe.net <members-discuss@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Sustainability and diversity On 16. 5. 24 15:30, Kurtis Lindqvist wrote:
Not to quibble but I think we need to be a bit more precise. The members have not formally accepted the activity plan, the Executive Board have. The members where provided the chance to give input on the activity plan.
I did not go and check - but was there any input given by any member?
While this might not seem like a major difference, I think part of the problem is exactly this. Perhaps the members SHOULD vote on the activity plan? At least the members might read it then…..
That might be a good idea, but at the same time this might render the GMs muuuuch longer :) Cheers, Jan _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.ripe.net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fmembers-discuss&data=05%7C02%7Ckurtis%40linx.net%7C512d2e71c6db4604c21f08dc75b44d7a%7C568b2c3522ad4ee08b90f034db231579%7C0%7C0%7C638514664473663329%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C4000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=%2Bk4WbQVXzTTrU2GVxtZ99h0QuLvhhDiGU61YrVRnJz0%3D&reserved=0<https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss> Unsubscribe: https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.ripe.net%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fmembers-discuss%2Fkurtis%2540linx.net&data=05%7C02%7Ckurtis%40linx.net%7C512d2e71c6db4604c21f08dc75b44d7a%7C568b2c3522ad4ee08b90f034db231579%7C0%7C0%7C638514664473671050%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C4000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=a0IO0jmv%2Bf%2FiwNY%2FD8z0y8V%2FJkj9HJ41kaaZU7tw3OU%3D&reserved=0<https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/kurtis%40linx.net>
Kurtis Providing input to the plan is one thing, but voting on it sounds like micromanagement How would a vote work? All or nothing? Line by line? I just don’t see how that would work or be of any real benefit. Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains https://www.blacknight.com/ https://blacknight.blog/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Personal blog: https://michele.blog/ Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/ ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845 I have sent this email at a time that is convenient for me. I do not expect you to respond to it outside of your usual working hours. From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Kurtis Lindqvist <kurtis@linx.net> Date: Thursday, 16 May 2024 at 09:31 To: Jan Zorz - Go6 <jan@go6.si>, members-discuss@ripe.net <members-discuss@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Sustainability and diversity [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Please use caution when opening attachments from unrecognised sources. Not to quibble but I think we need to be a bit more precise. The members have not formally accepted the activity plan, the Executive Board have. The members where provided the chance to give input on the activity plan. While this might not seem like a major difference, I think part of the problem is exactly this. Perhaps the members SHOULD vote on the activity plan? At least the members might read it then….. Best Regards, - kurtis - -- Kurt Erik Lindqvist, CEO T: +44 (0) 20 7645 3528 | www.linx.net<http://www.linx.net/> [b8dd7c7e-5b7a-4bb3-bf55-4265639a41be]<https://www.linx.net/> London Internet Exchange Ltd (LINX) C/O WeWork, 2 Minister Court, London, EC3R 7BB, United Kingdom Registered in England number 3137929 [09f5285b-9bf5-4663-a1d5-f335264499f8]<https://twitter.com/linx_network>[0ab2af08-4510-4094-a068-c92129623c5c]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/linx>[34761a22-8ab1-4259-b5a4-c45509cfc94a]<https://www.facebook.com/LondonInternetExchange/>[591060a6-addb-47a4-a833-1c93e4b644f4]<https://www.youtube.com/user/LINXnetwork> From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Jan Zorz - Go6 <jan@go6.si> Date: Thursday, 16 May 2024 at 13:49 To: members-discuss@ripe.net <members-discuss@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Sustainability and diversity On 16. 5. 24 14:33, Sebastian-Wilhelm Graf wrote:
"put something forward"...
Many members have put forward potential schemes on this list. Many members have put forward and voted for a point to be added to the agenda regarding the charging scheme (checking, this proposal has more than 700 signatures to date).
To wich the boards reaction was basically them not adding any options based on feedback.... Then when people appear to be complaing about that This has been repeated for the n-th time already.
EB can't put an option of a lower budget (and members fee) on the agenda as they need to follow the (accepted by RIPE NCC members) activity plan and assure the budget for it. Period. At this point lower budget is not possible. You are all barking at the wrong tree. When the activity plan comes into a discussion at (and prior to the GM) - that's the time to start proposing changes if you really want them. Cheers, Jan _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list members-discuss@ripe.net https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.ripe.net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fmembers-discuss&data=05%7C02%7Ckurtis%40linx.net%7Cc8f2c9373bae477f4d0d08dc75a6a315%7C568b2c3522ad4ee08b90f034db231579%7C0%7C0%7C638514605795570614%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C4000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Cks9L02OzgAOQ2JncbCXYvvU4Xu0Wh5OqUNchEekcac%3D&reserved=0<https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss> Unsubscribe: https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.ripe.net%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fmembers-discuss%2Fkurtis%2540linx.net&data=05%7C02%7Ckurtis%40linx.net%7Cc8f2c9373bae477f4d0d08dc75a6a315%7C568b2c3522ad4ee08b90f034db231579%7C0%7C0%7C638514605795581063%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C4000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=SbMR16X8El%2Fv09Ol6EJP0v8Q%2BfNAr2EN3LJ4OrFK8PA%3D&reserved=0<https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/kurtis%40linx.net>
Hi, On Thu, May 16, 2024 at 01:30:53PM +0000, Kurtis Lindqvist wrote:
While this might not seem like a major difference, I think part of the problem is exactly this. Perhaps the members SHOULD vote on the activity plan? At least the members might read it then?..
TBH, I thought we did actually vote (or at least "formally confirm") the activity plan, but the meeting minutes disagree with me. So, no, we did not. But I agree that we should. This said, this might actually be an even worse rat-hole than the charging scheme - how many resolutions do you want on it? In what detail level? Like, "shall registration services continue to do due process, even if it's costing 2 MEU per year?" (I could see lots of LIRs of a certain category vote "no" on this one). This would, obviously, be a bad idea. Even questions like "shall we keep RIPE atlas?" or "shall we move the RIPE database into the cloud, they tell us it will save 1MEU/Year?" are loaded... I *like* the idea of formally confirming "yes, dear EB, the majority of membership is fine with the proposed activity plan" (that is, the majority of those that can be bothered). But what if the answer is "no"? Questions elicit answers, answers need to bring consequences... Tough. Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard, Ingo Lalla, Karin Schuler, Sebastian Cler Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279
On 16. May 2024, at 16:49, Gert Doering <gert@space.net> wrote:
On Thu, May 16, 2024 at 01:30:53PM +0000, Kurtis Lindqvist wrote:
While this might not seem like a major difference, I think part of the problem is exactly this. Perhaps the members SHOULD vote on the activity plan? At least the members might read it then?..
TBH, I thought we did actually vote (or at least "formally confirm") the activity plan, but the meeting minutes disagree with me. So, no, we did not.
But I agree that we should.
This said, this might actually be an even worse rat-hole than the charging scheme - how many resolutions do you want on it? In what detail level?
Also TBH, I don’t want to vote on every activity plan item and not even necessarily on categories because I’m not informed enough on all the different parts and we vote for EB candidates so that they can make informed decisions. Also, as you said, what happens when no new activity plan is approved? If we want changes to the activity plan maybe we could create some sort of mechanism to propose changes and after an impact analysis we could vote or have some sort of consent, similarly as we have in the WGs. I think it would be good to have a discussion in general if and how we can incorporate member input in a “non-destructive” and more robust way. Best Regards Sebastian -- Sebastian Wiesinger Senior Principal Network Architect Service Integration noris network AG Thomas-Mann-Straße 16-20 90471 Nürnberg Deutschland Tel +49 911 9352 1459 Fax +49 911 9352 100 Email sebastian.wiesinger@noris.de noris network AG - Mehr Leistung als Standard Vorstand: Ingo Kraupa (Vorsitzender), Joachim Astel, Florian Sippel Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Stefan Schnabel - AG Nürnberg HRB 17689
participants (11)
-
Alex Le Heux -
Gert Doering -
Jan Zorz - Go6 -
Kurtis Lindqvist -
Mentor Leniqi -
Michele Neylon - Blacknight -
Piotr Strzyzewski -
Sebastian Wiesinger -
Sebastian-Becker＠telekom.de -
Sebastian-Wilhelm Graf -
Vaclav Nesvadba