Re: [members-discuss] [Polycomm] (TS-221) [ncc-announce] [news] RIPE NCC Members and Multiple LIR Accounts - Please Discuss
to come back to the debate about multiple LIR’s and ip space, let me play devil’s advocate for a second :) why don’t we want to allow final IPv4 space to be consumed as quickly as reasonably possible reserving only some final space as required for critical infrastructure needs? (critical infrastructure might be considered as things like as internet exchange points or verified root DNS servers etc) Yes this would drive up the grey/black market prices and there will be some people that take advantage of this and find creative ways around the various soft landing policies in place globally (this problem isn’t unique to RIPE specifically) for a quick $£ etc however the flip side of this is an enforced shortage of IPv4 because of its consumption will also force people to actually act on getting onto IPv6 properly once and for all. lets not try and prolong the life of a terminally ill patient that is IPv4 - lets give it the IP/Networking equivalent of a Do Not Resuscitate and just let it run out and focus our efforts on building proper IPv6 plans and rolling them out and supporting the IPv6 transition methods like 6to4-PT or similar the increasing price of IPv4 address is really a short to medium term problem because the market would ultimately reach a limit where its much more financially viable to roll out IPv6 network upgrades and infrastructure if not existing already than to purchase grey IP's Anthony Somerset, Technical Director, w: cloudunboxed.net <http://www.cloudunboxed.net/> | e: anthony.somerset@cloudunboxed.net <mailto:anthony.somerset@cloudunboxed.net> | t: +44 (0)33 0088 2444 Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail. This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and intended for the addressed individual or entity only. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and then discard this e-mail. Unauthorized copying, sharing and distributing of this e-mail is prohibited. The content in this e-mail does not necessarily represent the views of the company. The addressee should check all attachments for malware; the company makes no representation as regards the absence of malware in attachments to this e-mail.
On 17 Feb,2016, at 16:31, Jivko Jelev <support@polycomm.net> wrote:
Jivko Jelev <http://www.crm.polycomm.net/secure/ViewProfile.jspa?name=j.jelev%40itnsglobal.eu> обновил запрос
Техническая поддержка <http://www.crm.polycomm.net/browse/TS> / <http://www.crm.polycomm.net/browse/TS-221> TS-221 <http://www.crm.polycomm.net/browse/TS-221> [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [news] RIPE NCC Members and Multiple LIR Accounts - Please Discuss <http://www.crm.polycomm.net/browse/TS-221> I think is more beter this market to be close no reason to sale ip space. !!! RIPE Must take back this free ip space and on standat procedure give space to LIR providers whit clear rule-s .... For exsample big providers have alot of ip space Class B networks and they rent and sell this ip space. This bring to them a big profit. If you are new LIR you have only one option take space from market. no any option to take makert in country where this LIR have custumers. We try to use ipv6 .... for exsample no skype no any web site-s in local peering only one option is NAT for ipv4 .... On 17-Feb-16 4:18 PM, Matthias Šubik wrote:
On 17.02.2016, at 14:55, David Ponzone <david.ponzone@ipeva.fr> wrote:
..
PS: I see there are some ticketing systems registered as members of the ML. I am receiving quite some garbage when I post and it seems some people are getting the mails although they are not even members of the ML. I guess RIPE contact leaving the company, and e-Mail address gets assigned to the support queue. And the helldesk has to close the tickets, does not have the authority / idea to unsubscribe.
Matthias ps: If there are company mergers behind that, it isn’t so easy to find out which address needs unsubscribing, if it isn’t mentioned in the footer. ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ <https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/>
Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. – Jivko Jelev General Manager ITNS Global - Bulgaria T/F +359 2 49 66 555 US/T +1 4044001713 M +359 88 5555122,+359 87 8553844 e-mail: j.jelev@itnsglobal.eu If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ <https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. <Mail Attachment.png> <http://www.crm.polycomm.net/browse/TS-221#add-comment> Добавить комментарий <http://www.crm.polycomm.net/browse/TS-221#add-comment>
Это сообщение автоматически генерируется JIRA. (v6.4.1#64016-sha1:5d75814) <Mail Attachment.png>
however the flip side of this is an enforced shortage of IPv4 because of its consumption will also force people to actually act on getting onto IPv6
Proof needed. From what I see there is no shortage of IPv4. I know RIR are short (or done for some) on IPv4 but considering the amount available on market, there are plenty of IPv4 available. Emptying the free pool of RIPE won't help IPv6, it will only exclude future and small players of this double-stack Internet. Speaking of IPv6, many prefer to invest in CGN or any technology expanding the life of IPv4 than deploying the current Internet Protocol (and when you buy a box to do CGN you don't have money to replace that older gears that doesn't support IPv6). 20 years wasn't enough to deploy, how a handful month could be ? Denis
the point is that the “market” will reach a natural cap sooner rather than later meaning it becomes financially more viable to put down v6 infrastructure and networking and use transition methods like 6to4 than it is to keep purchasing v4 space IPv6 deployment will only become a widespread reality once people realise theres nothing to gain from consistently paying more and more for v4 address space and trying weird and wonderful ways to extend the useful lifetime of a legacy addressing scheme that had a replacement scheme defined 20 years ago now! CG-NAT solutions are ultimately not a particularly scalable solution long term either because the resources required to do this properly at scale is in my opinion are prohibitively expensive and theres a reason that the bigger ISP’s have not done this to date. this also doesn’t solve the problem for infrastructure access like providing content to customers (websites/streaming/dns/caches etc) all CG-NAT solutions will do is succeed in driving the market price of addresses up and give people an excuse to put off v6 deployment a little bit longer the overarching point is people need to smell the coffee and start sorting out v6 now while they have time to avoid nasty surprises later on and we should stop worrying about increasing methods to “game” the system because its ultimately a temporary problem that will go away soon enough. I’d favour approaches that better assist LIR’s with V6 awareness/training etc than wasting time on a temporary problem such that any "solution" only prolongs the inevitable by only a relatively small amount of time anyway Anthony Somerset, Technical Director, w: cloudunboxed.net <http://www.cloudunboxed.net/> | e: anthony.somerset@cloudunboxed.net <mailto:anthony.somerset@cloudunboxed.net> | t: +44 (0)33 0088 2444 Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail. This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and intended for the addressed individual or entity only. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and then discard this e-mail. Unauthorized copying, sharing and distributing of this e-mail is prohibited. The content in this e-mail does not necessarily represent the views of the company. The addressee should check all attachments for malware; the company makes no representation as regards the absence of malware in attachments to this e-mail.
On 18 Feb,2016, at 14:55, Denis Fondras <ripe@liopen.fr> wrote:
however the flip side of this is an enforced shortage of IPv4 because of its consumption will also force people to actually act on getting onto IPv6
Proof needed. From what I see there is no shortage of IPv4. I know RIR are short (or done for some) on IPv4 but considering the amount available on market, there are plenty of IPv4 available. Emptying the free pool of RIPE won't help IPv6, it will only exclude future and small players of this double-stack Internet.
Speaking of IPv6, many prefer to invest in CGN or any technology expanding the life of IPv4 than deploying the current Internet Protocol (and when you buy a box to do CGN you don't have money to replace that older gears that doesn't support IPv6). 20 years wasn't enough to deploy, how a handful month could be ?
Denis
---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/
Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.
Interesting ...
On 17.02.2016, at 21:29, Anthony Somerset <anthony.somerset@cloudunboxed.net> wrote:
to come back to the debate about multiple LIR’s and ip space, let me play devil’s advocate for a second :)
why don’t we want to allow final IPv4 space to be consumed as quickly as reasonably possible reserving only some final space as required for critical infrastructure needs? (critical infrastructure might be considered as things like as internet exchange points or verified root DNS servers etc)
we can have that cheaper, and reversible: Instruct RIPE NCC to stop allocating any IPv4. Or only after gaining support of at least 10 members :) On the other hand the insane price might be sustainable for some networks, and make anything impossible for others. Matthias
participants (3)
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Anthony Somerset -
Denis Fondras -
Matthias Šubik