I think its more related with national security. consider that you are in war and you want to stop propaganda. in this analogy, telegram is one of the nazi services. I support Russian goverment to block everything they want. from last election, they got 70% support. that means, they are capable of doing everything no matter who is getting affected by that. let the crush this system and build another one, from the government of the people, by the people, for the people. and you Juri, go in politics for next election or don't be treason. Engin 2018-04-23 10:42 GMT+03:00 Juri <hostmaster@ntx.ru>:

Hi Oliver,

Telegram is still online and become more and more popular. It uses some tricks to stay online and find the way to connect to internet.

But a lot of Russian and non-Russian Internet businesses affected (Europe, USA). Russian government doesn't care if they block anything else. Some data centers can't give services to Russian customers (hezner, ovh, just as example).

At this weekend they started to block even Google website IPs (about 70 Ips from 600 known) because Google just didn't do what they wanted against Telegram. RKN officially stated that.

Juri

On 23.04.2018 10:25, Huf Oliver, CI-A Rolls-Royce Power Systems AG wrote:

...

Don't you see that this is already happening: The infrastructure delivers all the options for the *application* to protect itself from this kind of disturbance. And successfully so: Telegram is still working even with this massive intervention! To me this looks like a very resilient app and network design.

All the other "stuff" going down is collateral: could happen in a natural disaster situation as well.

Well done, Internet!

-- Juri +7 (499) 346-76-29

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Here's a fun resource to look into the scale of this thing we're having: http://rkn.ishukshin.ru/ 2018-04-23 14:55 GMT+03:00 Palumbo Flavio <Flavio.Palumbo@windtre.it>:

Does anyone know which networks are currently blocked in Russia?

Flavio

*Da:* members-discuss [mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net] *Per conto di *Engin Rencber *Inviato:* lunedì 23 aprile 2018 13:03 *Cc:* members-discuss@ripe.net *Oggetto:* Re: [members-discuss] Russian government blocked 18mln IPs at 20/04/2018

I think its more related with national security.

consider that you are in war and you want to stop propaganda. in this analogy, telegram is one of the nazi services.

I support Russian goverment to block everything they want.

from last election, they got 70% support. that means, they are capable of doing everything no matter who is getting affected by that.

let the crush this system and build another one, from the government of the people, by the people, for the people.

and you Juri, go in politics for next election or don't be treason.

Engin

2018-04-23 10:42 GMT+03:00 Juri <hostmaster@ntx.ru>:

Hi Oliver,

Telegram is still online and become more and more popular. It uses some tricks to stay online and find the way to connect to internet.

But a lot of Russian and non-Russian Internet businesses affected (Europe, USA). Russian government doesn't care if they block anything else. Some data centers can't give services to Russian customers (hezner, ovh, just as example).

At this weekend they started to block even Google website IPs (about 70 Ips from 600 known) because Google just didn't do what they wanted against Telegram. RKN officially stated that.

Juri

On 23.04.2018 10:25, Huf Oliver, CI-A Rolls-Royce Power Systems AG wrote:

...

Don't you see that this is already happening: The infrastructure delivers all the options for the *application* to protect itself from this kind of disturbance. And successfully so: Telegram is still working even with this massive intervention! To me this looks like a very resilient app and network design.

All the other "stuff" going down is collateral: could happen in a natural disaster situation as well.

Well done, Internet!

-- Juri +7 (499) 346-76-29

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Here's the listing we are using for reference: https://github.com/zapret-info/z-i On Mon, Apr 23, 2018 at 2:55 PM, Palumbo Flavio <Flavio.Palumbo@windtre.it> wrote:

Does anyone know which networks are currently blocked in Russia?

Flavio

*Da:* members-discuss [mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net] *Per conto di *Engin Rencber *Inviato:* lunedì 23 aprile 2018 13:03 *Cc:* members-discuss@ripe.net *Oggetto:* Re: [members-discuss] Russian government blocked 18mln IPs at 20/04/2018

I think its more related with national security.

consider that you are in war and you want to stop propaganda. in this analogy, telegram is one of the nazi services.

I support Russian goverment to block everything they want.

from last election, they got 70% support. that means, they are capable of doing everything no matter who is getting affected by that.

let the crush this system and build another one, from the government of the people, by the people, for the people.

and you Juri, go in politics for next election or don't be treason.

Engin

2018-04-23 10:42 GMT+03:00 Juri <hostmaster@ntx.ru>:

Hi Oliver,

Telegram is still online and become more and more popular. It uses some tricks to stay online and find the way to connect to internet.

But a lot of Russian and non-Russian Internet businesses affected (Europe, USA). Russian government doesn't care if they block anything else. Some data centers can't give services to Russian customers (hezner, ovh, just as example).

At this weekend they started to block even Google website IPs (about 70 Ips from 600 known) because Google just didn't do what they wanted against Telegram. RKN officially stated that.

Juri

On 23.04.2018 10:25, Huf Oliver, CI-A Rolls-Royce Power Systems AG wrote:

...

Don't you see that this is already happening: The infrastructure delivers all the options for the *application* to protect itself from this kind of disturbance. And successfully so: Telegram is still working even with this massive intervention! To me this looks like a very resilient app and network design.

All the other "stuff" going down is collateral: could happen in a natural disaster situation as well.

Well done, Internet!

-- Juri +7 (499) 346-76-29

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Le informazioni contenute in questo messaggio di posta elettronica e in ogni eventuale documento allegato sono riservate, potrebbero essere coperte dal segreto professionale e possono essere utilizzate esclusivamente dal destinatario sopra indicato. Ogni divulgazione o copia di questo messaggio o dei suoi eventuali allegati non autorizzata, cosi' come ogni uso o divulgazione delle informazioni negli stessi contenute, sono da considerarsi come vietate e potrebbero costituire violazione delle normative ivi applicabili. Se ricevete questo messaggio per errore Vi preghiamo di volerci avvertire immediatamente tramite posta elettronica o telefonicamente e di cancellare il presente messaggio e ogni documento ad esso allegato dal Vostro sistema. Vi informiamo che svolgiamo ogni attivita' finalizzata a proteggere la nostra rete da virus e non ci assumiamo alcuna responsabilita' in ordine a possibili virus che possano essere trasferiti con la presente mail. Grazie.

*****************

The information contained in this e-mail and in any file transmitted with it is confidential and may be privileged for the sole use of the designated addressee. Any unauthorized dissemination or copying of this e-mail or its attachments, and any use or disclosure of any information contained in them, is strictly prohibited and may be illegal. If you are not the designated addressee, please notify the sender immediately by e-mail or by telephone and delete this e-mail and any file transmitted with it from your system. We make every effort to keep our network free from viruses and take no responsibility for any computer virus which might be transferred by way of this e-mail. Thank you.

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Right. The only problem the disease is too much, and there is no elections. 23.04.18 14:03, Engin Rencber пише:

I think its more related with national security.

consider that you are in war and you want to stop propaganda. in this analogy, telegram is one of the nazi services. 

I support Russian goverment to block everything they want.

from last election, they got 70% support. that means, they are capable of doing everything no matter who is getting affected by that. 

let the crush this system and build another one, from the government of the people, by the people, for the people.

and you Juri, go in politics for next election or don't be treason.

Engin

2018-04-23 10:42 GMT+03:00 Juri <hostmaster@ntx.ru <mailto:hostmaster@ntx.ru>>:

Hi Oliver,

Telegram is still online and become more and more popular. It uses some tricks to stay online and find the way to connect to internet.

But a lot of Russian and non-Russian Internet businesses affected (Europe, USA). Russian government doesn't care if they block anything else. Some data centers can't give services to Russian customers (hezner, ovh, just as example).

At this weekend they started to block even Google website IPs (about 70 Ips from 600 known) because Google just didn't do what they wanted against Telegram. RKN officially stated that.

Juri

On 23.04.2018 10:25, Huf Oliver, CI-A Rolls-Royce Power Systems AG wrote: > Don't you see that this is already happening: The infrastructure delivers all the options for the *application* to protect itself from this kind of disturbance. > And successfully so: Telegram is still working even with this massive intervention! > To me this looks like a very resilient app and network design. > > All the other "stuff" going down is collateral: could happen in a natural disaster situation as well. > > Well done, Internet!

-- Juri +7 (499) 346-76-29

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* Juri <hostmaster@ntx.ru> [2018-04-25 14:20]:

Hello Max,

...

would you like the world to do exactly your (i.e. Russian citizens) job and cut your small dictator off? Why? It is your country, not our, so do it yourself

We can't do that by ourselfs only ) And, yes, we don't have elections here.

There some other countries, like Ukraine for example, who copy bad practice of Internet censorship too. That's why Internet companies and ISPs should think about those problem together.

I hate to say it, but ISPs are bound by the laws of the country they're operating in. If your government doesn't allow free access there is nothing anyone outside of your country can do. Change has to come from within. You are hurt by your governments decision to block access to millions of IPs? Let them know. Let your customers know who is responsible. That is not something we can do for you. Also the RIPE NCC already has an outreach program to meet with and inform governments, but a government would have to be willing to meet and be informed. Regards Sebastian -- Sebastian Wiesinger Principal Network Architect Network & Security (ONS) noris network AG Thomas-Mann-Straße 16-20 90471 Nürnberg Deutschland Tel +49 911 9352 1335 Fax +49 911 9352 100 sebastian.wiesinger@noris.de https://www.noris.de - Mehr Leistung als Standard Vorstand: Ingo Kraupa (Vorsitzender), Joachim Astel, Jürgen Städing - Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Stefan Schnabel - AG Nürnberg HRB 17689

Greetings, On Wed, 25 Apr 2018, Bruno Carvalho wrote:

Hello everyone.

I've been reading all your messages regarding this problem since some time now. And i think that this problem shouldn't be handled by RIPE at all. Countries blacklist IP addresses and DNS addresses since some time now (because of piracy, political reasons, etc...). So... just because now, Russia is blocking a lot of VPN IPs, is a reason for RIPE to step in? No. I don't think so.

I think you are correct -- at least, afaik, it is not part of RIPE NCC's mandate from its members.

You all should keep the 2 things appart from each other. We in Portugal, have since some time now, several torrent websites blocked (IP and DNS)

Really? I was only aware about the DNS redirection, which anyone able to use a search engine can easily circumvent...

and you don't ear us complain about it or ask RIPE to talk to the gouvernment.

Some people have tried to complain to our government about the existing MoU's (ISPs, DROs and others) application, but with little or no success.

I agree that internet should be regulated. But a regulation can be benign to some but malign to others. A balance should be found. Internet would never be free because of this. And it's not the job of RIPE to balance it.

RIPE NCC is not a regulator. The RIPE Community is also not a regulator, but can address _technical_ issues in order to achieve improvements, even if full solutions are not possible. RIPE NCC's interface with governments (and LEAs), in my opinion, has a good track record. Regards, Carlos

Regards

--- XRV

Bruno Carvalho (CEO xrv.pt) | +351 300 404 316 P Please consider the environment before printing this email

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On 2018-04-25 14:51, Sebastian Wiesinger wrote:

* Juri <hostmaster@ntx.ru> [2018-04-25 14:20]: Hello Max,

would you like the world to do exactly your (i.e. Russian citizens) job and cut your small dictator off? Why? It is your country, not our, so do it yourself

We can't do that by ourselfs only ) And, yes, we don't have elections here.

There some other countries, like Ukraine for example, who copy bad practice of Internet censorship too. That's why Internet companies and ISPs should think about those problem together.

I hate to say it, but ISPs are bound by the laws of the country they're operating in. If your government doesn't allow free access there is nothing anyone outside of your country can do. Change has to come from within. You are hurt by your governments decision to block access to millions of IPs? Let them know. Let your customers know who is responsible. That is not something we can do for you.

Also the RIPE NCC already has an outreach program to meet with and inform governments, but a government would have to be willing to meet and be informed.

Regards

Sebastian

--  Sebastian Wiesinger Principal Network Architect Network & Security (ONS)

noris network AG Thomas-Mann-Straße 16-20 90471 Nürnberg Deutschland

Tel +49 911 9352 1335 Fax +49 911 9352 100

sebastian.wiesinger@noris.de https://www.noris.de - Mehr Leistung als Standard

Vorstand: Ingo Kraupa (Vorsitzender), Joachim Astel, Jürgen Städing - Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Stefan Schnabel - AG Nürnberg HRB 17689

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