Re: [members-discuss] [Ticket#2012061901001911] Need help. Can't remove routes for ex Assigned PA.
Dear Members, Please help what better to do in this case. We have allocated PA. From this space we Assigned PA to customer. Customer has own AS and he created routes. Route objects doesn't have our mnt-by. He has another carrier. The customer to which we have assiged PA space sending a lot of mails to Hotmail. We are receiving thousands complains per day from Hotmail. We suggested to block this IPs for Hotmail. They tell that it can be done only in automatic mode when hotmail will receive many complains for this IPs. We already found IPs in some black lists. RIPE position in this case. While routes doesn't have RIPE mnt record - they can't do anything. Routes should be removed by our ex customer. Ex customer position. He won't remove routes until we will return money back. And tell us that he doesn't send any e-mails - all was made by his customers. In our agreement written that we don't return money back in this case. And if we will return money back - anyway we don't have any warranty of removing routes. Questions: 1. How can we restrict using this routes right now? 2. How can we remove wrong routes (see an example bellow)? Additional information: ------------------------------ Example of route: route: xx.xx.xx.0/24 descr: route for xxxxxxxxxxx origin: asYYYY mnt-by: zzzzz-mnt source: RIPE # Filtered Where: - xx.xx.xx.0/24 - IPs from our allocation (Assigned PA). - ASyyyy - AS our ex customer. - zzzzz-mnt - MNT of our ex customer. -- Alexey Ivanov General Director LeaderTelecom Ltd.
He should not have received PA addresses from you in the first place, if he has his own AS he should have used PI addresses instead. Anyways.. If i understand things correctly he is currently announcing a subset of your PA assignment through his other provider? Contact them and ask them to stop announcing it. If they do not listen, contact their providers and ask them to filter it. If they do not listen I think you should have a pretty good court case, but then again I'm not a lawyer. You could also start to announce the specific prefix yourselves, which would pretty much break that prefix... Not sure how he could have created route objects though? Not sure how to get rid of those. On 6/19/2012 12:21 PM, LeaderTelecom Ltd. wrote:
Dear Members,
Please help what better to do in this case. We have allocated PA. From this space we Assigned PA to customer. Customer has own AS and he created routes. Route objects doesn't have our mnt-by. He has another carrier.
The customer to which we have assiged PA space sending a lot of mails to Hotmail. We are receiving thousands complains per day from Hotmail. We suggested to block this IPs for Hotmail. They tell that it can be done only in automatic mode when hotmail will receive many complains for this IPs. We already found IPs in some black lists.
RIPE position in this case. While routes doesn't have RIPE mnt record - they can't do anything. Routes should be removed by our ex customer.
Ex customer position. He won't remove routes until we will return money back. And tell us that he doesn't send any e-mails - all was made by his customers. In our agreement written that we don't return money back in this case. And if we will return money back - anyway we don't have any warranty of removing routes.
Questions: 1. How can we restrict using this routes right now? 2. How can we remove wrong routes (see an example bellow)?
Additional information: ------------------------------ Example of route:
route: xx.xx.xx.0/24 descr: route for xxxxxxxxxxx origin: asYYYY mnt-by: zzzzz-mnt source: RIPE # Filtered
Where: - xx.xx.xx.0/24 - IPs from our allocation (Assigned PA). - ASyyyy - AS our ex customer. - zzzzz-mnt - MNT of our ex customer.
-- Alexey Ivanov General Director LeaderTelecom Ltd.
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Dear Peter,
He should not have received PA addresses from you in the first place, if he has his own AS he should have used PI addresses instead. Anyways..
Why? Customer can use as PA so PI with own AS. P.S. Customer already removed all routes. Thank you for all members and RIPE NCC. -- Alexey Ivanov General Director LeaderTelecom Ltd. 19.06.2012 16:32 - Peter Linder написал(а): He should not have received PA addresses from you in the first place, if he has his own AS he should have used PI addresses instead. Anyways.. If i understand things correctly he is currently announcing a subset of your PA assignment through his other provider? Contact them and ask them to stop announcing it. If they do not listen, contact their providers and ask them to filter it. If they do not listen I think you should have a pretty good court case, but then again I'm not a lawyer. You could also start to announce the specific prefix yourselves, which would pretty much break that prefix... Not sure how he could have created route objects though? Not sure how to get rid of those. On 6/19/2012 12:21 PM, LeaderTelecom Ltd. wrote: Dear Members, Please help what better to do in this case. We have allocated PA. From this space we Assigned PA to customer. Customer has own AS and he created routes. Route objects doesn't have our mnt-by. He has another carrier. The customer to which we have assiged PA space sending a lot of mails to Hotmail. We are receiving thousands complains per day from Hotmail. We suggested to block this IPs for Hotmail. They tell that it can be done only in automatic mode when hotmail will receive many complains for this IPs. We already found IPs in some black lists. RIPE position in this case. While routes doesn't have RIPE mnt record - they can't do anything. Routes should be removed by our ex customer. Ex customer position. He won't remove routes until we will return money back. And tell us that he doesn't send any e-mails - all was made by his customers. In our agreement written that we don't return money back in this case. And if we will return money back - anyway we don't have any warranty of removing routes. Questions: 1. How can we restrict using this routes right now? 2. How can we remove wrong routes (see an example bellow)? Additional information: ------------------------------ Example of route: route: xx.xx.xx.0/24 descr: route for xxxxxxxxxxx origin: asYYYY mnt-by: zzzzz-mnt source: RIPE # Filtered Where: - xx.xx.xx.0/24 - IPs from our allocation (Assigned PA). - ASyyyy - AS our ex customer. - zzzzz-mnt - MNT of our ex customer. -- Alexey Ivanov General Director LeaderTelecom Ltd. ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: [1]https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. [1] https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view
Hi, On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 06:09:38PM +0400, LeaderTelecom Ltd. wrote:
He should not have received PA addresses from you in the first place, if he has his own AS he should have used PI addresses instead. Anyways..
Why? Customer can use as PA so PI with own AS.
Well, the point of "PA" is the "A" for "Aggregation". It can be announced (as a hole) from their own AS, but MUST NOT be taken away from the original provider. If the customer terminates the contract with the ISP who has been allocated the PA block from RIPE, the PA space MUST be returned. Just because it (sometimes) works technically doesn't mean it's intended to be used that way, or will not cause major problems later on - as you have discovered. Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (89) 32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279
Dear Gert,
Well, the point of "PA" is the "A" for "Aggregation". It can be announced (as a hole) from their own AS, but MUST NOT be taken away from the original provider.
Yes, it was good when we (means all ISP) had many IPv4 addresses. In several month PI space will be unavailable and for more efficient using IPv4 big ISP will allow use PA space for using to smaller ISP.
If the customer terminates the contract with the ISP who has been allocated the PA block from RIPE, the PA space MUST be returned.
It is not problem. Each customer has contract and on termination the contract all Assigned PA space client return back. -- Alexey Ivanov 19.06.2012 18:16 - Gert Doering написал(а): Hi, On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 06:09:38PM +0400, LeaderTelecom Ltd. wrote:
He should not have received PA addresses from you in the first place, if he has his own AS he should have used PI addresses instead. Anyways..
Why? Customer can use as PA so PI with own AS.
Well, the point of "PA" is the "A" for "Aggregation". It can be announced (as a hole) from their own AS, but MUST NOT be taken away from the original provider. If the customer terminates the contract with the ISP who has been allocated the PA block from RIPE, the PA space MUST be returned. Just because it (sometimes) works technically doesn't mean it's intended to be used that way, or will not cause major problems later on - as you have discovered. Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (89) 32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279 ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: [1]https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. [1] https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view
hi! Try to contact provider who routes IPs for this customer. - Andrei Kushnireuski AK1065-RIPE regID: cz.alfatelecom On Jun 19, 2012, at 12:21 PM, LeaderTelecom Ltd. wrote:
Dear Members,
Please help what better to do in this case. We have allocated PA. From this space we Assigned PA to customer. Customer has own AS and he created routes. Route objects doesn't have our mnt-by. He has another carrier.
The customer to which we have assiged PA space sending a lot of mails to Hotmail. We are receiving thousands complains per day from Hotmail. We suggested to block this IPs for Hotmail. They tell that it can be done only in automatic mode when hotmail will receive many complains for this IPs. We already found IPs in some black lists.
RIPE position in this case. While routes doesn't have RIPE mnt record - they can't do anything. Routes should be removed by our ex customer.
Ex customer position. He won't remove routes until we will return money back. And tell us that he doesn't send any e-mails - all was made by his customers. In our agreement written that we don't return money back in this case. And if we will return money back - anyway we don't have any warranty of removing routes.
Questions: 1. How can we restrict using this routes right now? 2. How can we remove wrong routes (see an example bellow)?
Additional information: ------------------------------ Example of route:
route: xx.xx.xx.0/24 descr: route for xxxxxxxxxxx origin: asYYYY mnt-by: zzzzz-mnt source: RIPE # Filtered
Where: - xx.xx.xx.0/24 - IPs from our allocation (Assigned PA). - ASyyyy - AS our ex customer. - zzzzz-mnt - MNT of our ex customer.
-- Alexey Ivanov General Director LeaderTelecom Ltd. ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view
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Remove your assignment first. -- Kind regards, sergey myasoedov On 19. 6. 2012, at 12:21, LeaderTelecom Ltd. <info@leadertelecom.ru> wrote:
Dear Members,
Please help what better to do in this case. We have allocated PA. From this space we Assigned PA to customer. Customer has own AS and he created routes. Route objects doesn't have our mnt-by. He has another carrier.
The customer to which we have assiged PA space sending a lot of mails to Hotmail. We are receiving thousands complains per day from Hotmail. We suggested to block this IPs for Hotmail. They tell that it can be done only in automatic mode when hotmail will receive many complains for this IPs. We already found IPs in some black lists.
RIPE position in this case. While routes doesn't have RIPE mnt record - they can't do anything. Routes should be removed by our ex customer.
Ex customer position. He won't remove routes until we will return money back. And tell us that he doesn't send any e-mails - all was made by his customers. In our agreement written that we don't return money back in this case. And if we will return money back - anyway we don't have any warranty of removing routes.
Questions: 1. How can we restrict using this routes right now? 2. How can we remove wrong routes (see an example bellow)?
Additional information: ------------------------------ Example of route:
route: xx.xx.xx.0/24 descr: route for xxxxxxxxxxx origin: asYYYY mnt-by: zzzzz-mnt source: RIPE # Filtered
Where: - xx.xx.xx.0/24 - IPs from our allocation (Assigned PA). - ASyyyy - AS our ex customer. - zzzzz-mnt - MNT of our ex customer.
-- Alexey Ivanov General Director LeaderTelecom Ltd. ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view
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Dear Sergey, Thank you for help! We removed inetnum, but routes can't remove. And as we see they send sucessfuly spam to Hotmail without inetnum "assigned PA". -- Alexey Ivanov
Did you also remove the in-addr.arpa zones for that specific prefix ? I read on this memberlist last week that this was quite effective in not being able to send email … Regards, Erik Bais From: members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net] On Behalf Of LeaderTelecom Ltd. Sent: dinsdag 19 juni 2012 14:31 To: Sergey Myasoedov Cc: members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] [Ticket#2012061901001911] Need help. Can't remove routes for ex Assigned PA. Dear Sergey, Thank you for help! We removed inetnum, but routes can't remove. And as we see they send sucessfuly spam to Hotmail without inetnum "assigned PA". -- Alexey Ivanov
Dear Erik,
Did you also remove the in-addr.arpa zones for that specific prefix ?
Yes. It is very intresting that we succesfully removed in-addr.arpa objects which were without our mnt. But routes we can't remove. Thank you hor help. Problem was solved. Our client just removed all routes. -- Alexey Ivanov
Alexey, have you already tried to contact RIPE Database manager? Once they helped me to resolve a similar case (mntner of route object was unresponsible). -- Kind regards, sergey myasoedov You wrote Tuesday, June 19, 2012, 2:53:29 PM:
Did you also remove the in-addr.arpa zones for that specific prefix ?
Yes. It is very intresting that we succesfully removed in-addr.arpa objects which were without our mnt. But routes we can't remove.
Thank you hor help. Problem was solved. Our client just removed all routes.
Hi Alexey, Let’s assume that you provided this ‘customer’ a part of a PA allocation. So you have a /21 and provided this specific customer with a /24 and they are announcing that with their own AS to their providers. What you did wrong here is: The customer should not have been provided a /24 which they would be allowed to route under another AS but yours. It is you PA space, not theirs. There are good alternatives for this. PI space is one and the customer could always sign up for their own LIR member status and get their own PA space. In the RIPE DB there is an option to limit another maintainer to their own specific assignment. You can do that in the larger PA allocation (in this example for the /21 above the customers /24) using the following syntax: Inetnum : your /21 mnt-routes: Your-MNT mnt-routes: ISP-A-MNT { x.y.56.0/22, x.y.60.0/24 } mnt-routes: MNT-ISP-B { x.y.63.0/24 } That will allow the named maintainers to create a route object with their maintainer authentication that matches only that specific part of your allocation. On the part of how to remove that specific route-object. Typically only the maintainer that is named can do that. And normally they will do that as soon as the customer is no longer using the IP’s or if there is a request to remove it. If the maintainer is of the customer itself and they refuse to remove the route object. That might be tricky to get it removed, as they need to do it. Regards, Erik Bais A2B Internet From: members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net] On Behalf Of LeaderTelecom Ltd. Sent: dinsdag 19 juni 2012 12:22 To: members-discuss@ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] [Ticket#2012061901001911] Need help. Can't remove routes for ex Assigned PA. Dear Members, Please help what better to do in this case. We have allocated PA. From this space we Assigned PA to customer. Customer has own AS and he created routes. Route objects doesn't have our mnt-by. He has another carrier. The customer to which we have assiged PA space sending a lot of mails to Hotmail. We are receiving thousands complains per day from Hotmail. We suggested to block this IPs for Hotmail. They tell that it can be done only in automatic mode when hotmail will receive many complains for this IPs. We already found IPs in some black lists. RIPE position in this case. While routes doesn't have RIPE mnt record - they can't do anything. Routes should be removed by our ex customer. Ex customer position. He won't remove routes until we will return money back. And tell us that he doesn't send any e-mails - all was made by his customers. In our agreement written that we don't return money back in this case. And if we will return money back - anyway we don't have any warranty of removing routes. Questions: 1. How can we restrict using this routes right now? 2. How can we remove wrong routes (see an example bellow)? Additional information: ------------------------------ Example of route: route: xx.xx.xx.0/24 descr: route for xxxxxxxxxxx origin: asYYYY mnt-by: zzzzz-mnt source: RIPE # Filtered Where: - xx.xx.xx.0/24 - IPs from our allocation (Assigned PA). - ASyyyy - AS our ex customer. - zzzzz-mnt - MNT of our ex customer. -- Alexey Ivanov General Director LeaderTelecom Ltd.
You could announce the /24 and 2 * /25 yourself and blackhole to reduce the impact, not everyone filters on /24. Mike On Tue, 2012-06-19 at 14:21 +0400, LeaderTelecom Ltd. wrote:
Dear Members,
Please help what better to do in this case. We have allocated PA. From this space we Assigned PA to customer. Customer has own AS and he created routes. Route objects doesn't have our mnt-by. He has another carrier.
The customer to which we have assiged PA space sending a lot of mails to Hotmail. We are receiving thousands complains per day from Hotmail. We suggested to block this IPs for Hotmail. They tell that it can be done only in automatic mode when hotmail will receive many complains for this IPs. We already found IPs in some black lists.
RIPE position in this case. While routes doesn't have RIPE mnt record - they can't do anything. Routes should be removed by our ex customer.
Ex customer position. He won't remove routes until we will return money back. And tell us that he doesn't send any e-mails - all was made by his customers. In our agreement written that we don't return money back in this case. And if we will return money back - anyway we don't have any warranty of removing routes.
Questions: 1. How can we restrict using this routes right now? 2. How can we remove wrong routes (see an example bellow)?
Additional information: ------------------------------ Example of route:
route: xx.xx.xx.0/24 descr: route for xxxxxxxxxxx origin: asYYYY mnt-by: zzzzz-mnt source: RIPE # Filtered
Where: - xx.xx.xx.0/24 - IPs from our allocation (Assigned PA). - ASyyyy - AS our ex customer. - zzzzz-mnt - MNT of our ex customer.
-- Alexey Ivanov General Director LeaderTelecom Ltd.
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-- Mike Hollowell Arrowhead Systems Ltd http://www.theinternet.org.uk tel: +44 1782 747044 fax: +44 1782 410734 Arrowhead Systems Limited: A company registered in England and Wales, company number 02694760 Reg'd Office: 5 The Villas, Stoke-On-Trent, Staffordshire. ST4 5AQ. UK
Hi,
You could announce the /24 and 2 * /25 yourself and blackhole to reduce the impact, not everyone filters on /24.
please don't pollute the DFZ. Contacting the (other) upstreams and tell them the route is bogus is the only intelligent option. If the inetnum object is removed, they can see the announcement is not valid in the first place. Everything else has been said already, just don't use PA like that. I'm not sure what would be the proper way to get the route object removed in this case either. -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Kind Regards Sascha Lenz [SLZ-RIPE] Senior System- & Network Architect
I agree but two points, I was suggesting a method to mitigate the spam and there are 216411 /24 in the table, only 71 /25, two more temporary prefixes are insignificant. When networks like Blackberry announce their blocks in /24 (Haven't checked recently), what can you do? On Tue, 2012-06-19 at 15:06 +0200, Sascha Lenz wrote:
Hi,
You could announce the /24 and 2 * /25 yourself and blackhole to reduce the impact, not everyone filters on /24.
please don't pollute the DFZ.
Contacting the (other) upstreams and tell them the route is bogus is the only intelligent option. If the inetnum object is removed, they can see the announcement is not valid in the first place.
Everything else has been said already, just don't use PA like that. I'm not sure what would be the proper way to get the route object removed in this case either.
-- Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Kind Regards
Sascha Lenz [SLZ-RIPE] Senior System- & Network Architect
---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view
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-- Mike Hollowell Arrowhead Systems Ltd http://www.theinternet.org.uk tel: +44 1782 747044 fax: +44 1782 410734 Arrowhead Systems Limited: A company registered in England and Wales, company number 02694760 Reg'd Office: 5 The Villas, Stoke-On-Trent, Staffordshire. ST4 5AQ. UK
Mike, If it's not supposed to be done like that - it isn't justified using that argument. That would be like saying "It's not allowed to steal, but since so many do it anyway - it'll just be a drop in the ocean if I do it too" :) -- Med venlig hilsen / Best regards, Ian Johannesen BeeVPN ApS mai: ij@beevpn.com On Jun 19, 2012, at 4:28 PM, Mike Hollowell wrote:
I agree but two points, I was suggesting a method to mitigate the spam and there are 216411 /24 in the table, only 71 /25, two more temporary prefixes are insignificant.
When networks like Blackberry announce their blocks in /24 (Haven't checked recently), what can you do?
On Tue, 2012-06-19 at 15:06 +0200, Sascha Lenz wrote:
Hi,
You could announce the /24 and 2 * /25 yourself and blackhole to reduce the impact, not everyone filters on /24.
please don't pollute the DFZ.
Contacting the (other) upstreams and tell them the route is bogus is the only intelligent option. If the inetnum object is removed, they can see the announcement is not valid in the first place.
Everything else has been said already, just don't use PA like that. I'm not sure what would be the proper way to get the route object removed in this case either.
-- Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Kind Regards
Sascha Lenz [SLZ-RIPE] Senior System- & Network Architect
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--
Mike Hollowell
Arrowhead Systems Ltd http://www.theinternet.org.uk tel: +44 1782 747044 fax: +44 1782 410734
Arrowhead Systems Limited: A company registered in England and Wales, company number 02694760 Reg'd Office: 5 The Villas, Stoke-On-Trent, Staffordshire. ST4 5AQ. UK
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Hi Ian; Yes, we live in a grey world. What's worse, getting a pile of spam/using computer resources to clean it up or using resources to route a few more prefixes/mitigate it? I suppose it depends on your viewpoint. It's only going to get worse, but it's always been the same; put more memory in your router or filter routes. Oh, and sorry for the big sig earlier ;) Mike On Tue, 2012-06-19 at 16:32 +0200, Ian Johannesen wrote:
Mike,
If it's not supposed to be done like that - it isn't justified using that argument. That would be like saying "It's not allowed to steal, but since so many do it anyway - it'll just be a drop in the ocean if I do it too" :)
-- Med venlig hilsen / Best regards,
Ian Johannesen BeeVPN ApS
mai: ij@beevpn.com
On Jun 19, 2012, at 4:28 PM, Mike Hollowell wrote:
I agree but two points, I was suggesting a method to mitigate the spam and there are 216411 /24 in the table, only 71 /25, two more temporary prefixes are insignificant.
When networks like Blackberry announce their blocks in /24 (Haven't checked recently), what can you do?
On Tue, 2012-06-19 at 15:06 +0200, Sascha Lenz wrote:
Hi,
You could announce the /24 and 2 * /25 yourself and blackhole to reduce the impact, not everyone filters on /24.
please don't pollute the DFZ.
Contacting the (other) upstreams and tell them the route is bogus is the only intelligent option. If the inetnum object is removed, they can see the announcement is not valid in the first place.
Everything else has been said already, just don't use PA like that. I'm not sure what would be the proper way to get the route object removed in this case either.
-- Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Kind Regards
Sascha Lenz [SLZ-RIPE] Senior System- & Network Architect
---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view
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--
Mike Hollowell
Arrowhead Systems Ltd http://www.theinternet.org.uk tel: +44 1782 747044 fax: +44 1782 410734
Arrowhead Systems Limited: A company registered in England and Wales, company number 02694760 Reg'd Office: 5 The Villas, Stoke-On-Trent, Staffordshire. ST4 5AQ. UK
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Mike, First of all, if we don't all follow the policies, and educate people about them as Sascha also stated, what reason does it serve to have the policies in the first place? So shouldn't the time should really be spent on trying to argue for a policy change in favor of allowing this - instead of trying to fish out arguments to justify not following them in the first place? I mean if there's a broad consensus behind this shouldn't it be done this way? Because I'm having a very hard time otherwise as not reading it along the lines of openly saying "I don't agree with you guys - so I'll just do it the way I so please". In either case this debate seems much more relevant to be had out in the open using the right working group mailing list. -- Med venlig hilsen / Best regards, Ian Johannesen BeeVPN ApS On Jun 19, 2012, at 4:55 PM, Mike Hollowell wrote:
Hi Ian;
Yes, we live in a grey world. What's worse, getting a pile of spam/using computer resources to clean it up or using resources to route a few more prefixes/mitigate it? I suppose it depends on your viewpoint.
It's only going to get worse, but it's always been the same; put more memory in your router or filter routes.
Oh, and sorry for the big sig earlier ;)
Mike
On Tue, 2012-06-19 at 16:32 +0200, Ian Johannesen wrote:
Mike,
If it's not supposed to be done like that - it isn't justified using that argument. That would be like saying "It's not allowed to steal, but since so many do it anyway - it'll just be a drop in the ocean if I do it too" :)
-- Med venlig hilsen / Best regards,
Ian Johannesen BeeVPN ApS
mai: ij@beevpn.com
On Jun 19, 2012, at 4:28 PM, Mike Hollowell wrote:
I agree but two points, I was suggesting a method to mitigate the spam and there are 216411 /24 in the table, only 71 /25, two more temporary prefixes are insignificant.
When networks like Blackberry announce their blocks in /24 (Haven't checked recently), what can you do?
On Tue, 2012-06-19 at 15:06 +0200, Sascha Lenz wrote:
Hi,
You could announce the /24 and 2 * /25 yourself and blackhole to reduce the impact, not everyone filters on /24.
please don't pollute the DFZ.
Contacting the (other) upstreams and tell them the route is bogus is the only intelligent option. If the inetnum object is removed, they can see the announcement is not valid in the first place.
Everything else has been said already, just don't use PA like that. I'm not sure what would be the proper way to get the route object removed in this case either.
-- Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Kind Regards
Sascha Lenz [SLZ-RIPE] Senior System- & Network Architect
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Mike Hollowell
Arrowhead Systems Ltd http://www.theinternet.org.uk tel: +44 1782 747044 fax: +44 1782 410734
Arrowhead Systems Limited: A company registered in England and Wales, company number 02694760 Reg'd Office: 5 The Villas, Stoke-On-Trent, Staffordshire. ST4 5AQ. UK
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Hi, [the original problem seems to be solved and this discussion is nothing new, so that's the last answer from me here]
I agree but two points, I was suggesting a method to mitigate the spam and there are 216411 /24 in the table, only 71 /25, two more temporary prefixes are insignificant.
unfortunately that's a very narrow minded view on the world. Also, it doesn't solve anything. So just don't do it, not even as a temporary measure. Just focus your efforts on the offender and their upstreams in such cases. Note: There is no hijacking of any production stuff here, it's "just spam"
When networks like Blackberry announce their blocks in /24 (Haven't checked recently), what can you do?
The same, educate the offender and their upstreams. But please don't tell others to turn to the dark side just because "everyone else is doing it", that's just sad. Anyways, problem is resolved, EOL. -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Kind Regards Sascha Lenz [SLZ-RIPE] Senior System- & Network Architect
Dear Mike,
You could announce the /24 and 2 * /25 yourself and blackhole to reduce the impact, not everyone filters on /24.
Dear Members,
Please help what better to do in this case. We have allocated PA. From this space we Assigned PA to customer. Customer has own AS and he created routes. Route objects doesn't have our mnt-by. He has another carrier.
The customer to which we have assiged PA space sending a lot of mails to Hotmail. We are receiving thousands complains per day from Hotmail. We suggested to block this IPs for Hotmail. They tell that it can be done only in automatic mode when hotmail will receive many complains for this IPs. We already found IPs in some black lists.
RIPE position in this case. While routes doesn't have RIPE mnt record - they can't do anything. Routes should be removed by our ex customer.
Ex customer position. He won't remove routes until we will return money back. And tell us that he doesn't send any e-mails - all was made by his customers. In our agreement written that we don't return money back in this case. And if we will return money back - anyway we don't have any warranty of removing routes.
Questions: 1. How can we restrict using this routes right now? 2. How can we remove wrong routes (see an example bellow)?
Additional information: ------------------------------ Example of route:
route: xx.xx.xx.0/24 descr: route for xxxxxxxxxxx origin: asYYYY mnt-by: zzzzz-mnt source: RIPE # Filtered Where: - xx.xx.xx.0/24 - IPs from our allocation (Assigned PA). - ASyyyy - AS our ex customer. - zzzzz-mnt - MNT of our ex customer.
-- Alexey Ivanov General Director LeaderTelecom Ltd. ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general
We tryed to do that. But when we tryed to create route object /25 we saw authentification error, while parent route (/24) has another mnt. -- Alexey Ivanov 19.06.2012 17:17 - Mike Hollowell написал(а): You could announce the /24 and 2 * /25 yourself and blackhole to reduce the impact, not everyone filters on /24. Mike On Tue, 2012-06-19 at 14:21 +0400, LeaderTelecom Ltd. wrote: page: [1]https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. -- Mike Hollowell Arrowhead Systems Ltd [2]http://www.theinternet.org.uk tel: +44 1782 747044 fax: +44 1782 410734 Arrowhead Systems Limited: A company registered in England and Wales, company number 02694760 Reg'd Office: 5 The Villas, Stoke-On-Trent, Staffordshire. ST4 5AQ. UK ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: [3]https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. [1] https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view [2] http://www.theinternet.org.uk [3] https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view
participants (10)
-
Andrei Kushnireuski -
Erik Bais -
Gert Doering -
Ian Johannesen -
LeaderTelecom Ltd. -
Mike Hollowell -
Peter Linder -
Sascha Lenz -
sergey myasoedov -
Sergey Myasoedov