- members-discuss - mailman.ripe.net

Re: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association
by Brandon Butterworth 24 Jun '14

24 Jun '14

> that bit doesn't concern me, tbh. They make their business run on trust, > so if their trust breaks down, so does their business model. So probably > they are trustworthy. You're right but the conclusion doesn't follow. Plenty of banks etc are totally not trustworthy but stay in business by various means. Never underestimate the stupidity of the general public... > No doubt the magic is the right magic, but I don't understand it. I'm just > more comfortable with something I understand, both at each point along the > way and in its entirety. It's not a problem that it's really low tech. > Sometimes that's good if it means we can all understand how it works. I don't have a problem with it, the mental image is the paper process done by xkcd people inside a machine and we all trust xkcd so it must be trustworthy brandon

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Re: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association
by Brandon Butterworth 24 Jun '14

24 Jun '14

> We also feel that the current electronic voting window is sufficient to > allow all members in the service region to cast their votes (some > calculations show that if were to hold a General meeting in the easternmost > timezone in the region then the westernmost zone (Iceland) would still have > 2 hours of working time to cast their vote). However, if members > believe that the voting window should be extended we would > also like to hear from you. That sounds as tricky as trying to not miss the end of an ebay item I'm usually to distracted or in meetings and stuff. brandon

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remove automated ticket system reply from member discussion list
by Lu Heng 18 Jun '14

18 Jun '14

Dear Colleagues: I understand some large cooperation might need ticket system to sort out their Emails, but it is really getting annoying every time you reply to the member mailing list you get 4-5 none-human responds. Should we contact these organizations and ask them to put a real human Email for this list? -- -- Kind regards. Lu This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) shown above. It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by persons other than the intended addressee(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify this office immediately and e-mail the original at the sender's address above by replying to this message and including the text of the transmission received.

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Remove
by Joao Silveira 13 Jun '14

13 Jun '14

Please remove our mail addres from this discussion. -- Joao Silveira HQ: Rua 28 de Janeiro 350 - B11 - 4400-335 Vila Nova de Gaia | PORTUGAL Phone: +351 227 136 188 | Mobile: +351 912 386 351 Rio Office: Rua Pinheiro Guimarãees, 150 - 22281-080 Rio de Janeiro | BRAZIL Phone: +55 (21) 2538-2318 | Mobile: +55 (21) 99798-3523

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Cogent uses RIPE DB for spam
by Andrei Kushnireuski 13 Jun '14

13 Jun '14

Hi Colleagues, First of all, happy Friday 13 =) Cogent uses RIPE DB for phone spam. My colleague just received a phone call from +31204621445 with IP Transit offer. Colleague's phone number is published as admin-c in RIPE DB only. For me it's very bad practice for same company like Cogent to use RIPE DB for spamming. Did anybody receive same calls/emails based on RIPE DB info? Thanks. - Andrei Kushnireuski AK1065-RIPE regID: cz.alfatelecom

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Re: [members-discuss] remove automated ticket system reply from member discussion list
by Brandon Butterworth 13 Jun '14

13 Jun '14

and remove people sending html only email? > <html><head></head><body data-blackberry-caret-color="#00a8df" style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); line-height: initial;"><div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">The problem is, as an organisation, to set up this process will incur a cost and will require additional FTEs so that other services aren't impacted. I am not saying ‎this can't be done on the side, I am just saying I know how things work and what would end up happening under the current processes and workload. It's easier to just remove the entries from the discuss list and if the LIR contacts to ask what is going on, the person answering the call can explain. This is more of a short term project and would never justify additional FTEs and no argument can be made for them. </div> ...

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Re: [members-discuss] Cogent uses RIPE DB for spam
by Andrei 13 Jun '14

13 Jun '14

Valerii, RIPE DB contains actual information NOT for marketing purposes but to provide possibility to contact IP administrator/ tech and resolve any issues. In case of mass usage DB information for marketing purposes end users will try to hide/limit actual infromation in RIPE DB. On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 2:17 PM, Valerii Lolin <vlelin(a)infiumhost.com> wrote: > and? > > it's great problem for you? > or they called to your own (private) number? > > > why your questions addressed to RIPE NCC members? > you want to discuss cogent policy? > > > > > 2014-06-13 15:12 GMT+03:00 Andrei Kushnireuski <ipas.master(a)gmail.com>: > >> Hi Colleagues, >> >> First of all, happy Friday 13 =) >> >> Cogent uses RIPE DB for phone spam. My colleague just received a phone >> call from +31204621445 with IP Transit offer. Colleague's phone number >> is published as admin-c in RIPE DB only. >> >> For me it's very bad practice for same company like Cogent to use RIPE DB >> for spamming. Did anybody receive same calls/emails based on RIPE DB info? >> >> Thanks. >> >> - >> Andrei Kushnireuski >> AK1065-RIPE >> regID: cz.alfatelecom >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ---- >> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss >> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the >> general page: >> https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ >> >> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From >> here, you can add or remove addresses. >> > > -- Andrei Kushnireuski Alfa Telecom s.r.o. REGID: cz.alfatelecom nic-hdl: AK1065-RIPE phone: +420226020360

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Re: [members-discuss] My Question To All LIR Members
by admin＠intl-alliance.com 29 May '14

29 May '14

That thought was kind of pointless after they refused to help. I've spent hours on their site manually updating all of their inaccuracies over the past few years. From one month to the next they can screw up entire ranges with their monthly updates. My networks do not run proxies period. I run vpn services and remote desktops, but never proxies. And vpn services cannot be classified the same as open proxies as they are totally different. On 2014-05-28 09:33, Edward Dore wrote: > Have you asked them why they believe the IP address space in question > is being used to run open/anonymous proxy servers? > > Edward Dore > Freethought Internet > > On 28 May 2014, at 09:30, admin(a)intl-alliance.com wrote: > >> I have already gone through the process of informing them, using >> their >> corrections form on their website, and pleading with them to update >> their database. For years, this worked just fine. They used to be a >> very >> cooperative company. Starting last week, they began marking huge >> sections of my ip addresses as anonymous proxies and completely >> removing >> any country information from them. Then these inaccuracies were then >> >> sold to all their clients and now sections of my ip ranges are all >> screwed up now and as a direct result of that, I lose business in my >> >> line of work. Here is the response I received from them after a very >> >> long email to them: >> >> Dear Mr. Twyler, >> >> As you're aware, we endeavor to provide accurate IP geolocation of >> Internet end-users and to identify proxies where possible in our IP >> intelligence products. We may not accept corrections to our data >> where >> we believe they do not increase the accuracy of our IP geolocation >> or >> improve proxy identification. >> If you'd like to communicate with our legal counsel, we invite you >> to >> email legal(a)maxmind.com. >> >> Regards, >> Jason Ketola >> V.P., Operations >> >> This response would have been tolerable had I been a proxy supplier. >> >> However I am not. And this company is completely unwilling to >> reconsider >> my case, even though I've informed them that they are causing me a >> massive loss of business by doing this. >> >> On 2014-05-28 09:10, Dpto. Datos Television Costa Blanca wrote: >> Hi Jared, >> >> What do you mean exactly? >> MaxMind != RIR >> >> MaxMind is only a company who sell geolocation services based on IP >> Address. >> Being member of a RIR is a completely different thing. >> >> Also, whats wrong on the maxmind geo database? >> >> I have updated several IP blocks on Ripe Database and maxmind >> updated >> it. >> >> Best Regards, >> >> El 28/05/2014 8:55, admin(a)intl-alliance.com escribió: >> Here is a question I propose to all RIPE NCC LIR members: >> >> What is the point in remaining a LIR member of the RIPE NCC if >> private >> companies like www.maxmind.com [1] do not have to adhere to the data >> >> that’s >> officially published in the NCC ip address database? If private >> companies are allowed to produce their own ip databases based on >> information not obtained in the official NCC database, why continue >> on >> with membership here? It seems pointless if a private company can >> completely ignore a LIR database, produce and then sell faulty >> databases >> to thousands of websites. >> >> Jared Twyler >> Chief Executive Officer >> IAPS Security Services, L.L.C. >> Skype: iaps_support >> FB: http://www.facebook.com/iapscorp [2] >> Blog: http://www.jareds-blog.com [3] >> Web: http://www.intl-alliance.com/store [4] >> >> ---- >> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC >> members-discuss >> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the >> >> general page: >> https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ [5] >> >> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". >> From >> here, you can add or remove addresses. >> >> -- >> Daniel Baeza >> Centro de Observación de Red >> Dpto. Internet y Telefonía >> Television Costa Blanca S.L. >> Telf. 966190565 >> WEB: http://www.tvt.es [6] >> Correo: datos(a)tvt-datos.es >> >> --AVISO LEGAL-- >> >> En cumplimiento de la Ley Orgánica 15/1999, de 13 de diciembre de >> protección de datos de carácter personal, se pone en conocimiento >> del >> destinatario del presente correo electrónico, que los datos >> incluidos >> en este mensaje, están dirigidos exclusivamente al citado >> destinatario >> cuyo nombre aparece en el encabezamiento, por lo que si usted no es >> la >> persona interesada rogamos nos comunique el error de envío y se >> abstenga de realizar copias del mensaje o de los datos contenidos en >> el mismo o remitirlo o entregarlo a otra persona, procediendo a >> borrarlo de inmediato. >> Asimismo le informamos que sus datos de correo han quedado incluidos >> en nuestra base de datos a fin de dirigirle, por este medio, >> comunicaciones comerciales, profesionales e informativas y que usted >> dispone de los derechos de acceso, rectificación, cancelación y >> especificación de los mismos, derechos que podrá hacer efectivos >> dirigiéndose a Televisión Costa Blanca, S.L., C/ San Policarpo 41 >> Bajo. C.P: 03181 Torrevieja (Alicante). >> >> ---- >> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC >> members-discuss >> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the >> general page: >> https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ [5] >> >> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". >> From >> here, you can add or remove addresses. > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the > general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ [5] > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From > here, you can add or remove addresses. > > > Links: > ------ > [1] http://www.maxmind.com > [2] http://www.facebook.com/iapscorp > [3] http://www.jareds-blog.com > [4] http://www.intl-alliance.com/store > [5] https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ > [6] http://www.tvt.es

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Re: [members-discuss] My Question To All LIR Members
by Hank Nussbacher 28 May '14

28 May '14

At 10:41 28/05/2014 +0100, Edward Dore wrote: No geo-database is perfect. For example, take RIPE. If we use: ftp://ftp.ripe.net/pub/stats/ripencc/delegated-ripencc-latest ftp://ftp.ripe.net/pub/stats/ripencc/RIR-Statistics-Exchange-Format.txt Note they add a disclaimer which wasn't there in Feb 2012: cc = ISO 3166 2-letter country code, and the enumerated variances of {AP,EU,UK} These values are not defined in ISO 3166 but are widely used. The cc value identifies the country. However, it is not specified if this is the country where the addresses are used. There are no rules defined for this value. It therefore cannot be used in any reliable way to map IP addresses to countries Only after I complained did they add that line in. Why? Many companies used that info to do geolocation. Including a two major firewall vendors. So when a number of local companies in Israel decided to stop foreign based attacks by turning on "geo-location" in their f/w and allow only Israel based IPs to access their systems (think banks, insurance companies, municipalties, etc.), guess what happened to all of academia who have their IP ranges listed as country=EU due to ERX transfer from ARIN to RIPE. Yup! Professors were no longer able to access their pension fund info, students were unable to pay their municipal taxes - all because of geo-location. Took me weeks to find each and every one and get the sysadmin to fix their broken geo-location service. And to get the f/w vendors to fix their broken geo-location database pull. I had similar issues with Maxmind since Ookla was/is using them and returning incorrect info. I sent multiple correction reports to correction(a)maxmind.com and support(a)maxmind.com and never even received a response. So consider yourself lucky that you are getting responses from them. Bottom line: geo-location sucks and anyone who trusts their systems to it are only thinking along 98% perfection - rather than having a 100% perfect solution. -Hank >The RIPE database is not primarily concerned with GeoIP data, it is a >registry of who specific IP address blocks are allocated to and how they >can be contacted. > >MaxMind may draw some of their GeoIP data from the the RIR databases, but >they also get a lot of it from elsewhere, which allows them to be more >specific than just the country code contained in the RIPE database. > >Additionally, the RIPE database manual states the following for the >"country" field in the "inetnum" object: > >>"It has not been specified what this country means. It cannot therefore >>be used in any reliable way to map IP addresses to countries" > >As a customer of MaxMind, I depend on them providing me with accurate, >useful information about the location and use of IP addresses for fraud >screening etc. If MaxMind were to draw that information only from the RIPE >database, then not only would MaxMind be pointless (as I could just get >the information directly from RIPE) but the accuracy would be >significantly reduced (country level instead of city level) and it would >be easy for people to game the system simply by changing their objects in >the RIPE database to contain false information. > >MaxMind do not "make up" their information, they calculate it from >multiple sources and this is what MaxMind customers are buying - data >derived from multiple sources and processed by MaxMind's algorithms. > >Obviously these algorithms are never going to be 100% accurate, which is >why if people believe that the data contained in the MaxMind database is >inaccurate then they can submit suggestions for corrections which MaxMind >will then evaluate. MixMind are under no obligation to use any corrections >submitted and are quite right to reject them if they believe that they are >inaccurate or misleading for any reason. > >Accuracy of their database is important to MaxMinds' customers and thus to >MaxMind. If their database is largely inaccurate, then it is useless to >their customers and MaxMind will lose business as a result. Obviously it >is therefore in MaxMind's best interest to keep their database as accurate >and up to date as possible. > >As for the open proxy vs VPN, I can completely understand why MaxMind >could detect VPNs as open proxy servers and as a user of their minFraud >service I would expect to treat the two in exactly the same way because >they are providing an identical function - to obscure the location and >details of the end user. > >Edward Dore >Freethought Internet > >On 28 May 2014, at 10:02, ><mailto:admin@intl-alliance.com>admin(a)intl-alliance.com wrote: > >>I depend on Maxmind using data obtained from a central registry. If all >>ip tracing websites created their own databases with information they >>made up, we wouldn't bother with the RIPE database any more because it >>would become obsolete. We depend on ip tracing websites to gather their >>information from authority sites, not the garbage they produce on their >>own. And I'm only interested, as well as my end-users, of seeing ip >>information that I've registered in the appropriate places. Simply >>stating that "we're only interested in end-user locations" rather than >>ip registration data, sits badly in my mind. And it has also caught the >>attention of the RIPE NCC itself, which just sent me the following email >>regarding this situation: >> >>Dear Jared, >> >>Thank you for your email. >> >>We value your concern about correct registration details for internet >>resources. >> >>However the RIPE NCC has no authority on how private companies compile >>their data and how much they take information from the RIPE database in >>account. >>Did you contacted MaxMind directly and informed them about the >>mismatching information they provide? Because finally if information are >>incorrect then this is not only damaging companies like yours but also >>the reputation of the providers of this data. >> >>And I will forward your observation to my colleagues from the >><http://stat.ripe.net>stat.ripe.net team as there for Geolocation we are >>using data from >>MaxMind. >><https://stat.ripe.net/193.0.20.0#tabId=geo>https://stat.ripe.net/193.0.20.0#tabId=geo >> >>Then my colleagues will check if there could be any conflicting >>information in our own tools. >> >>-- >>Thank you again for bring up this topic. >> >>Kind regards, >> >>Marco Schmidt >>RIPE NCC >> >> >>On 2014-05-28 09:52, Alfredo Sola wrote: >>>>That thought was kind of pointless after they refused to help. I've >>>>spent hours on their site manually updating all of their inaccuracies >>>>over the past few years. From one month to the next they can screw up >>>>entire ranges with their monthly updates. My networks do not run >>>>proxies >>>>period. I run vpn services and remote desktops, but never proxies. And >>>>vpn services cannot be classified the same as open proxies as they are >>>>totally different. >>> >>>I think your issue is more a business model problem than a registry >>>or IP problem. >>> >>>What you are saying is that you depend on Maxmind providing the >>>location of your VPN servers / remote desktop servers rather than the >>>location of users computers connected to them. Maxmind, on the other >>>hand, is saying that they provide the location of users if they can, >>>or will mark the location as unknown. >>> >>>So your business model depends on Maxmind agreeing to provide to >>>their customers something which is not what they pay to obtain. And >>>they refuse. I personally don't think they can be blamed for that, but >>>that's something between your company and Maxmind. And nothing in this >>>has to do with RIPE. >> >>---- >>If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss >>mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the >>general page: >>https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ >> >>Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From >>here, you can add or remove addresses. > >---- >If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss >mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the >general page: >https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ > >Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From >here, you can add or remove addresses.

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Re: [members-discuss] My Question To All LIR Members
by Gert Doering 28 May '14

28 May '14

Hi, On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 03:19:26PM +0100, Bill Lewis wrote: > ahh so I think I get it now... No, you're mixing up different cases. The original poster is providing VPN services, where the whole point is "hide the true origin of the user of the VPN service". Whether you call it "VPN" or "proxy" or whatever, this is just different technical means to achieve the same goal. Now, MaxMind caught up on this, and marks his IP ranges as "proxy services", aka "we don't know where in the world the user is" - which is quite correct. Now, if your business model is based on "I'm in the US, I'm offering VPN based services for money, so people can watch US-only television offerings" this tag would certainly wreck your business model. OTOH, that business model is bordering on fraud to begin with - getting paid to provide a way to circumvent content providers' restrictions that are there for a reason. (Of course I can see the point of someone actually *being* from the US, traveling abroad, wanting to watch his home TV shows - but I claim the majority of users just want to circumvent the restrictions, without actually being uS-centric) So - of *course* these VPN providers are unhappy if MaxMind provides correct data ("proxy service"). But such is business - your market niche just went away. Nothing RIPE is going to do about it. Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279

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