- members-discuss - mailman.ripe.net

Complaints against LIRs ignored by NCC
by William Weber 17 Dec '13

17 Dec '13

As RIPE seems to have decided that i can be ignored and no one needs to reply to me i make this public now as threatened to them before - See Dear Andrew, i don't care what you say - if you don't reply me with anything useful then i take steps to get others involved. This is not the first time i reported a LIR for evaluation and was ignored. I waited over a month for any reply and sent multiple follow up mails, no replies and the ticket is "open" in the Lirportal, now the last reply i got was again useless and without any interest (No Andrew, i cannot use the LIR<>LIR report form to report LIR<>RIPE, i can't even enter that there.) Theres some more fun to be had, here's a text i prepared before i sent my mail to RIPE after some investigations (which merely took 10 minutes time and a few calls to some associates) - Now, isn't that proof enough for an evaluation? I think so and the other LIRs i represent do as well, but make your own picture. -- Today we follow an interesting 'ISP' which is based on a sole-trader in the Netherlands which managed to have RIPE/Afrinic/ARIN assign him IPv4 space totaling to a /8: His name is Heng Lu, also known as "OutsideHeaven" - http://outsideheaven.com Seemingly based in the Netherlands Lu is of Chinese origin and does (as far as informations go) not live in Europe at all. First being a customer of OVH and having his IP space announced on OVHs AS now most space seems to be announced by Los Angeles based ISP Multacom (AS35916). A short view on the website shows that no real services are provided yet massive amounts of IPs are registered to him personally, him as sole trader or his companies at all RIRs: 154.80.0.0/12 - Afrinic - 1.048.574 IPs This is an AFRINIC net assigned to a company in the Seychelles ("Abacus (Seychelles) Limited"), the Person handle and mail shows the connection to OutsideHeaven. The network itself contains smaller assignments, all with the descr of "CloudInnovation infrastructure" and various countries set (AD, SD, YT….), most IPs are not announced at all and seem unused. 5.224.0.0/15 - RIPE - 131.070 IPs A RIPE network from 2012.09 announced by Multacom in LAX outside of the RIPE region. Seems unused. 5.132.0.0/16 - RIPE - 65000 IPs RIPE network dating to 2012.07 (Just 3 months after the /15 was allocated, exactly the timeframe RIPE required a space to be used in to get a new one…), announced on OVH. 37.222.0.0/15 - RIPE - 131.070 IPs Yet another RIPE network from 2012.04 (who can spell 'bribe'?) announced by OVH on France, unused as well. 46.136.0.0/16 - RIPE - 65000 IPs Allocated 2010.11 - Announced by a datacenter in the Netherlands, unused. 31.201.0.0/16 - RIPE - 65000 IPs 2011.04 - Announced in LAX/Multacom. List (not complete, there is more smaller assignments on him): 154.80.0.0/12 - Afrinic - 1.048.574 IPs 185.2.48.0/22 - RIPE - 1024 IPs - 2012.09 5.224.0.0/15 - RIPE - 131.070 IPs - 2012.09 5.132.0.0/16 - RIPE - 65.534 IPs - 2012.07 37.222.0.0/15 - RIPE - 131.070 IPs - 2012.04 31.201.0.0/16 - RIPE - 65.534 IPs - 2011.04 46.136.0.0/16 - RIPE - 65.534 IPs - 2010.11 178.236.224.0/20 - RIPE - 4096 IPs - 2010.06 -- William Weber | RIPE Person: WW | LIR: at.edisgmbh (among others) william(a)edisglobal.com | william(a)william.si | http://edis.at | http://as57169.net EDIS GmbH (AS57169) NOC Maribor, Slovenia Anfang der weitergeleiteten Nachricht: > Von: William Weber <william(a)edis.at> > Betreff: Aw: NCC#2013100726 Complaint against a LIR > Datum: 09. Oktober 2013 13:18:36 MESZ > An: Andrew de la Haye <andrew(a)ripe.net> > > Dear Andrew, > > And who verified that these 2 analysts were not bribed... i know guys buying /12s by bribing AFRINIC officials (in fact, the same LIR as this mail is about "bought" space there also, 154.80.0.0/12) and this isn't unheard in LACNIC/APNIC either, so what tells me RIPE did/does not do the same... > > Sorry, but this is not really any better now: > > This guy "accidentally" sits in Amsterdam as well, not even far from you, being Chinese(!) with barely 3000EUR income reports filled 2012/2013 in the Netherlands for his BVs and his sole trader status and has one of the largest total > allocations in the entire RIPE region? > > How can he announce 2(!) *ENTIRE* /15 from an ARIN ASN in Los Angeles while i and others got contacted by RIPE about a measly /24 on an ARIN ASN? > > Why do his assignments make no sense, look auto generated and never contain any end-user data? Why was this not verified at add-alloc? > > How does he use over a million IPs on a 100Mbit uplink to his upstream provider? > > This all is still very fishy and not really impressive... > > > Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards, > William Weber > > -- > EDIS GmbH > NOC > Hauptplatz 3/3 > 8010 Graz > Austria > Umsatzsteuer-ID: ATU 64124511 > Firmenbuch: FN 308697t > > phone: +43 316 827 500 > fax: +43 316 827 500 777 > http://www.edis.at > > This message was sent by EDIS GmbH, it is STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL and is solely for the individual or organisation to whom it is addressed. It may contain PRIVILEGED and CONFIDENTIAL information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication and its contents is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us at support(a)edis.at and delete it from your computer. > > > Am 08.10.2013 um 11:55 schrieb Andrew de la Haye <andrew(a)ripe.net>: > >> Dear William, >> >> We take your allegations very seriously. As such, your ticket has been escalated to me by Andrea Cima, manager of the RIPE NCC's Registration Services Department. >> >> Before the RIPE NCC reached the last /8 of IPv4 address space, we implemented a temporarily enhanced allocation procedure to ensure a fair, neutral and well-documented IPv4 run-out. >> >> This procedure was communicated to our membership and community at meetings, via the Address Policy Working Group Mailing List, and via our website. You can find the complete description at: >> https://ripe65.ripe.net/presentations/204-last_slash_8_NCC_Services.pdf >> >> Measures were taken to ensure our members' needs were filled on a first-come, first-served basis, and to ensure that we followed due diligence. Each request was evaluated by two IP Resource Analysts. Furthermore, all large requests (/15 PA or /18 PI or more) were rigorously evaluated by Registration Services Management, checked for policy compliance by our Policy Development Officer, and were finally approved by two RIPE NCC Senior Managers. >> >> The IPv4 requests you have listed followed this process completely and, based on the information we received, were entirely justified. >> >> If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact me. >> >> Kind regards >> >> Andrew de la Haye >> Chief Operations Officer >> RIPE NCC >> >> Singel 258 >> 1016 AB Amsterdam >> the Netherlands >> andrew(a)ripe.net >> tel: +31 20 535 4444 >> fax: +31 20 535 4445 > Am 07.10.2013 um 14:29 schrieb RIPE NCC Hostmaster <hostmaster(a)ripe.net>: > > Dear William, > > As requested I have escalated your complaint to the RIPE NCC Senior > Management. > > They will come back to you ASAP. > > Best regards, > Andrea Cima > > RIPE NCC > > > On Fri, 4 Oct 2013 16:11:37 +0200, William Weber wrote: >> Dear Andrea, >> >> So if there is no proof for a bribe you do as it does not exist at all? >> Why did no one tell me this before, i would have come with a suitcase of cash to AMS... Seriously, this statement is worse than what 3rd world dictators state all the time about bribery... >> >> Considering that RIPE members have no access to other RIPE members add-alloc (or any other) forms it is also entirely *impossible* to prove lies in them (hey, how should i do that if i can't read them at all?) - Thus it clearly is your obligation to verify this claims OR provide the accuser with access to a system to verify it himself. >> >> It is by itself alone VERY suspicious that the single largest allocation for weeks is allocated 8 days before the last /8 is reached to an unknown sole trader without any business.... yes, i think i have enough 'proof' to get this verified by the RIPE, please escalate it to whoever you think is appropriate or i will do so myself today at 00:00 via the RIPE mailing list to ALL members. >> >> Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards, >> William Weber >> >> -- >> EDIS GmbH >> NOC >> >> >> Am 04.10.2013 um 15:52 schrieb RIPE NCC Hostmaster <hostmaster(a)ripe.net>: >> >>> >>> Dear William, >>> >>> All allocations are issued based on RIPE policy and documentation that >>> demonstrates the need for those resources. The information provided by >>> members is confidential and cannot be shared with other members. >>> >>> If you have proof that a member has provided false information to the >>> RIPE NCC, please provide us this proof. Based on this we can then >>> start evaluating the claims and take appropriate actions. The same >>> counts for your accusation of a RIPE NCC emloyee having received a >>> bribe, which is a very serious accusation, that we do not take >>> lightly. >>> >>> Finally it seems there is a misunderstanding about the date on which >>> the RIPE NCC has reached its last /8 policy. The correct date is 14 >>> September 2012. Please find the official announcement at: >>> http://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/ncc-services-wg/2012-September/00182… >>> >>> Kind regards, >>> >>> Andrea Cima >>> Registration Services Manager >>> RIPE NCC >>> >>> >>> On Thu, 3 Oct 2013 13:49:32 +0200, William Weber wrote: >>>> x-ncc-regid: at.edisgmbh (and at.<removed>, li.<removed>, li.<removed>, plus representing <removed> and <removed>) >>>> >>>> >>>> Yes, i have to complain again to evaluate someone.... >>>> >>>> LIR is nl.outsideheaven >>>> >>>> I am 100% sure that the allocation of his netblocks have either used false data in the add-alloc forms, plain lies or bribes (which i see as the most likely) - His company has no trading activity in any country (verified with Dutch and Chinese tax authorities) and nothing that would justify the usage of this amounts of IPv4 space. >>>> His usage of some of them also violates RIPE rules, most are for example not even announced inside the RIPE region but originate from AS35916 (Multacom in Los Angeles, USA) solely. >>>> The assignments while RIPE already reached the last /8 are very questionable as well and overturning a members and board decision. >>>> >>>> 185.2.48.0/22 - RIPE - 1024 IPs - 2012.09 >>>> -> Announced in the ARIN region entirely, not RIPE >>>> >>>> 5.224.0.0/15 - RIPE - 131.070 IPs - 2012.09 >>>> -> Announced in the ARIN region entirely, not RIPE >>>> -> How was he able to obtain a /15 5 months AFTER RIPE reached the last /8? >>>> >>>> 5.132.0.0/16 - RIPE - 65.534 IPs - 2012.07 >>>> -> Announced in the ARIN region entirely, not RIPE >>>> -> How was he able to obtain a /16 3 months AFTER RIPE reached the last /8? >>>> >>>> 37.222.0.0/15 - RIPE - 131.070 IPs - 2012.04 >>>> -> How was he able to obtain a /15 1 month AFTER RIPE reached the last /8? >>>> >>>> >>>> 31.201.0.0/16 - RIPE - 65.534 IPs - 2011.04 >>>> -> Announced in the ARIN region entirely, not RIPE >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards, >>>> William Weber >>>> >>>> -- >>>> EDIS GmbH >>>> NOC >>>> >>>> >>

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Re: [members-discuss] Complaints against LIRs ignored by NCC
by Joao Silveira 16 Dec '13

16 Dec '13

Hi All, Why not use IPv6. The IPv4 market will go down definitively. Hugs, --- Joao Silveira On Mon, 16 Dec 2013 11:34:29 -0000, Tony Turner wrote: > Hi All, > > A Fee for a Resource that is significantly smaller than Demand won't work .... all it will do is create another market for those with extra IP's ... > > What do other markets do when there is a shortage ..... it is not guaranteed to work in this market .... > > Never posted on here but here is my 2 pence worth so bear with me ... > > Our experience from a telecommunications view is interesting. We had been issued by Ofcom 600 x 10,000 blocks of phone numbers, some ranges were issued in 1K blocks where there was shortage in a town, but if not 10,000 blocks, our mobile range is 100,000 > > Now we never need 10K blocks for all towns, yes London but not Maldon .... 1K would have been fine. > > Now Ofcom have never charged for phone numbers historically, but that has all started to change due to a shortage > > and of course lack of Government funding. > > First they went to 1K blocks as numbers for a town became scarce.... > > Now they are starting to charge for numbers in the towns which they say are a conservation area where numbers are scarce. > > They charge 10p per number per year, whether allocated to a customer or not. > > Now we have given back promptly 4 million phone numbers some big mobile companies have also dumped the numbers and services on some of those numbers like broadband VOIP some mobile operators cut the service. > > Phone numbers I am sure will never run out so companies not using them will give them back as they know, "hey we can get some more". > > With IP's that's different, I think whatever happens IPV4 will run out (or has) whatever approach is taken. The big boys know this and can afford to keep them whatever is charged for them so I doubt the big telcos/ISP's will ever give them back. Irrespective of a charge. > > The only IP's you may get back if they are charged for is from small operators ... but as IP's are so scarce I even doubt these will be given back as companies can rent them out as they are a scarce resource with a demand greater than supply unlike UK phone numbers where the demand is less than supply but phone numbers where just allocated on blocks too large (so mis -managed). > > You may think great they will rent them out, I doubt the terms of such will make you smile ... > > So charging won't necessarily work. > > Regards > > Tony > > FROM: members-discuss-bounces(a)ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net] ON BEHALF OF Oliver Bryssau > SENT: 16 December 2013 09:59 > TO: RIPE > CC: members-discuss(a)ripe.net > SUBJECT: Re: [members-discuss] Complaints against LIRs ignored by NCC > > Hi All, > > I think that post hits the nail on the head perfectly. > > I guess if so many of us feel this way we should investigate the Ripe framework to see if there is something that can be done to create positive change. > > This would be a great short/medium term solution however we all must look to support ipv6 natively. > > Merry Christmas, > Oliver > > On 16 Dec 2013 09:39, "RIPE" wrote: > > Hello, > > everyone who says "IPv4 is gone" is living in his/her dreams, denying reality and IPv4 market (and those mentioned average 2 letters/IPv4 requests per day). It may be true for some, but it obviously isn't for others, no matter reasons. While I understand IPv6 propagation, I don't think that punishing/discriminating small IPv4 holders in need for a few more IPs is right. Actually, releasing those big unused IPv4 blocks might have much better impact for IPv6 development, while the small ones would appreciate "a few more C" and it may even be enought for a few more months/years this way. > > While I must admit I'm not sure how to do this, some fee for IP addresses sounds like natural way. So I must agree, if you are happy IPv6 user who had no problems to move from IPv4 (or started at IPv6 directly) and doesn't need IPv4 addresses anymore, just return them all and you can stop to care about it and less lucky us. You may even have it cheaper. Saying that you don't need IPv4 because you have IPv6 already sounds like "I don't have this problem so I don't want/need it to be solved and I don't care about others" to me. Or in worse case, it may even be "I like current state because I own those big blocks and I have profit from it". Nothing personal here, I wasn't screening anyone and I don't accuse anyone. Just annoyed from all those "IPv6 solves everything" announcers who are, at same time, so much against returning of any unused IPv4 space. Thanks for your understanding. > > Merry Christmas to everyone > > Matej Vavrousek > CentroNet, a.s. > > -----Original Message----- > From: members-discuss-bounces(a)ripe.net [2] [mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net [3]] On Behalf Of Andrea Cocito > Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 5:42 PM > To: Gert Doering > Cc: members-discuss(a)ripe.net [4] > Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Complaints against LIRs ignored by NCC > > On Dec 12, 2013, at 5:39 PM, Gert Doering wrote: >> IPv4 is *gone*, get over it. No matter of discussion here or elsewhere >> will bring back IPv4 in quantities needed to "last forever", so all you >> are doing is postponing the inevitable, and burning lots of effort and >> money in the denial phase. > > Right, then if the fee scheme is changed in that way there will be no problem for LIRs who have millions of IPv4 addresses allocated to release them and save money :) > > A. > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view [6] > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view [7] > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. Links: ------ [1] mailto:ripe@centronet.cz [2] mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net [3] mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net [4] mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net [5] mailto:gert@space.net [6] https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view [7] https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view

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Re: [members-discuss] IPV4 market
by Michele Neylon - Blacknight 16 Dec '13

16 Dec '13

Define "using them"? Also as far as I know there's no way for any of the RIRs to randomly take back IP space .. -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting & Colocation, Domains http://www.blacknight.co/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Locall: 1850 929 929 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Fax. +353 (0) 1 4811 763 Twitter: http://twitter.com/mneylon ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 ________________________________ From: members-discuss-bounces(a)ripe.net [members-discuss-bounces(a)ripe.net] on behalf of Sajjad Najafi Zadeh [ MTNIrancell ] [sajjad.n(a)mtnirancell.ir] Sent: 16 December 2013 11:10 To: members-discuss(a)ripe.net Subject: [members-discuss] IPV4 market HI all, Why ripe is not doing re-evaluation for large IP spaces and take back from LIRs if they are not using them to stop this IP market ? Regards . MTNIrancell Mail Disclaimer available at: http://www.irancell.ir/maildisclaimer

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Re: [members-discuss] Complaints against LIRs ignored by NCC
by Alex Saroyan 21 Nov '13

21 Nov '13

Hi, I can confirm that I have seen Lu Heng at least at all last 5-6 Ripe meetings. So +1 that he is really reachable and speakable person. Best Regards /Alex Saroyan "Administration - [ inAsset Networks ]" <admin(a)inasset.es> wrote: >---- >If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss >mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: >https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > >Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.

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Re: [members-discuss] Complaints against LIRs ignored by NCC
by Michele Neylon - Blacknight 21 Nov '13

21 Nov '13

He's here in Buenos Aires this week at the ICANN meeting... I've met him several times this week I'd also question whether a RIPE mailing list is the appropriate place to make very serious allegations against another member Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting & Colocation, Domains http://www.blacknight.co/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Locall: 1850 929 929 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Fax. +353 (0) 1 4811 763 Twitter: http://twitter.com/mneylon ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 ________________________________ From: members-discuss-bounces(a)ripe.net [members-discuss-bounces(a)ripe.net] on behalf of Alex Saroyan [alex.saroyan(a)inn.eu] Sent: 21 November 2013 17:22 To: Administration - [ inAsset Networks ] Cc: members-discuss(a)ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Complaints against LIRs ignored by NCC Hi, I can confirm that I have seen Lu Heng at least at all last 5-6 Ripe meetings. So +1 that he is really reachable and speakable person. Best Regards /Alex Saroyan "Administration - [ inAsset Networks ]" <admin(a)inasset.es> wrote: Sascha, We do not have any relation with the complainer, and we would appreciate you avoid to make such suggestions. If you want to contact us, you can find our phone number and e-mail addresses at RIPE NCC Whois DB. Thank you. Administration - [ inAsset Networks ] El 21/11/2013, a las 17:40, Sascha E. Pollok <sp(a)iphh.net<mailto:sp@iphh.net>> escribió: +1. This looks clearly personal. Especially those half-anonymous complains ("Administration - [ inAsset Networks ]") look strange to me (no offense). And William, thank you for sharing all the details about your personal life (Who is more evil?) - but probably most people here do not find it interesting (just an assumption). "Administration - [ inAsset Networks ]", William, did you two somehow organize to get together today to start this? I dont need an answer. Focus on facts please and keep the noise low. Thank you. The Management. Am 21.11.2013 17:21, schrieb Christian Hoffmann [sfip84 Hosting und mehr UG]: Hey, am i the only person having the feeling that there is a private issue going on here? I mean come on, this guy has the bigger one, i am jalous too, but as part of the RIPE NCC i think i really should trust the persons working for the NCC. For my understanding with every new allocation (and he has a lot..) there is an Audit going on. Ok, he is announcing part of the networks outside the RIPE Area, but for my understanding that is ok as long as the company and the core network is based in Europe. Or did i missed something. Am 21.11.2013 17:12, schrieb William Weber: Hello together, So so so, finally he can reply - Hello there Mr. Lu, why were my previous contact tries ignored? I was in fact *AT YOUR ADDRESS* in Holland in 2012, nobody there - I would have someone sent to your address in China also, but that one is unclear described. I wondering where you have the inaccurate income data about me personally and my private company as well I do not need to share any sources (what is this, the PLA?), all data was obtained legally in my country of residence (Slovenia) and Austria - I can not vouch for correctness but in the past it was usually near the expected. Not like your data is secret in the Netherlands. making an criminal charge(corruption) to Ripe NCC, inaccurate publish our private income data in the public space without supporting evidence are very serious offense under european law, although my lawyer strongly suggest him to write the letter, I insists my self to write here just because I would appreciate member's understanding and community's support. I'm not sure what gives you the idea that Dutch law would be applicable to me in Slovenia/Austaira (or at all, considering that Slovenia/Austria as per constitution cannot extradict citizens)? The statement of mine - *POSSIBLE* bribe - Is fully legal to make, even the implication of it would be - The RIPE ticket system is also not the public and neither is the mailing list, it is a closed system. You can sue me all you want, i have not much to loose currently, and once cleared move to Israel which does neither extradict nor care much about Europe. The Austrian police confiscated my hardware 2012 and 2013, the Austrian police investigates my financial transactions, the Polish police wants to see me in jail (and has an order for that), Hongkong authorities are not amused, my phones and internet is taped, i am being followed by the Austrian police. Just google my name and add "tor" and you get an image, you (and no one else) can threaten me with "law" anymore. I will reply more lenghty later, because even though the Austrian government does not like me they still send me invitations to broadband expansion forums and force me to attend and speak. Also, most here agree with me and you CLEARLY violate RIPE policies with the ARIN routing and others - So *you* are the one that should explain himself, not me. This is also a note: *The statements here are fully personal or statements of my own companies, not EDIS GmbH which is however one LIR i represent.* -- William Weber | RIPE: WW | LIR: william(a)william.si<mailto:william@william.si> <mailto:william@william.si> Am 21.11.2013 um 16:44 schrieb "H.Lu" <h.lu(a)anytimechinese.com<mailto:h.lu@anytimechinese.com> <mailto:h.lu@anytimechinese.com>>: Hi We do not want to sue "anybody" here, sorry for mistyping English. we followed all the process in the Ripe region, and I personally involved and participated in the Ripe policy development process, To inasset network: I wonder how you as single organization define "best interest of ripe member" and justifying other member's IP usage? Kind regards Lu On 2013-11-21, at 下午12:26, "Administration - [ inAsset Networks ]" <admin(a)inasset.es<mailto:admin@inasset.es> <mailto:admin@inasset.es>> wrote: Good Afternoon (in Europe) Mr. Lu, we will follow your activities closely, and see if RIPE NCC takes action in the event the use of your assigned space is not in the best interest of its members. For now, we would like to know why you are announcing RIPE NCC space in ARIN. *Administration* - [ inAsset Networks ] El 21/11/2013, a las 16:02, H.Lu <h.lu(a)anytimechinese.com<mailto:h.lu@anytimechinese.com> <mailto:h.lu@anytimechinese.com>> escribió: Hi: What a surprise morning. I think it was talking about me and my company. To clarify few things, the justification process of our application took very long in ripe NCC and I believe ripe NCC investigate about us heavily in the major service we provided at the time of it being justified. and corruption claim are very much inappreicate and I would ask you apologizes to Ripe NCC. Me as individual as been actively involved in the ripe community in past 5 years, and I believe most active member in the list knowing me personally. I wondering where you have the inaccurate income data about me personally and my private company as well. as it can not be obtain legally and the data was not correct. I personally owing quite few companies worldwide but they are all private companies I do not feel the need to share our financial details publicly. Most part of our business are confidential so sorry we can not provide more details here, like every request, Member base are trusting Ripe NCC to make the right decision at the time of application. That is how business really works, only Ripe NCC has rights to getting into confidential area of member's business, otherwise I believe every member would have to publish every detail about their business to the public. And I would ask if you do have more questions for me, as long as it is not confidential, I'd like to share my stories with you. Please do not bother Ripe NCC for this matter any more. At this point, Ripe NCC are just a book keeper for its members and Ripe community, they are not police force, if you do feel we have some unlawful practice--thought I seriously doubt about it, please contact related law enforcement and we are very happy to assist in the matter with them. Last but not least, as I just had phone call with my lawyer, making an criminal charge(corruption) to Ripe NCC, inaccurate publish our private income data in the public space without supporting evidence are very serious offense under european law, although my lawyer strongly suggest him to write the letter, I insists my self to write here just because I would appreciate member's understanding and community's support. Let me know if you still have more questions. Kind regards Lu On 2013-11-21, at 上午11:05, William Weber <ripe-members-discussion(a)edisglobal.com<mailto:ripe-members-discussion@edisglobal.com> <mailto:ripe-members-discussion@edisglobal.com>> wrote: As RIPE seems to have decided that i can be ignored and no one needs to reply to me i make this public now as threatened to them before - See Dear Andrew, i don't care what you say - if you don't reply me with anything useful then i take steps to get others involved. This is not the first time i reported a LIR for evaluation and was ignored. I waited over a month for any reply and sent multiple follow up mails, no replies and the ticket is "open" in the Lirportal, now the last reply i got was again useless and without any interest (No Andrew, i cannot use the LIR<>LIR report form to report LIR<>RIPE, i can't even enter that there.) Theres some more fun to be had, here's a text i prepared before i sent my mail to RIPE after some investigations (which merely took 10 minutes time and a few calls to some associates) - Now, isn't that proof enough for an evaluation? I think so and the other LIRs i represent do as well, but make your own picture. -- Today we follow an interesting 'ISP' which is based on a sole-trader in the Netherlands which managed to have RIPE/Afrinic/ARIN assign him IPv4 space totaling to a /8: His name is Heng Lu, also known as "OutsideHeaven" - http://outsideheaven.com<http://outsideheaven.com/> <http://outsideheaven.com/> Seemingly based in the Netherlands Lu is of Chinese origin and does (as far as informations go) not live in Europe at all. First being a customer of OVH and having his IP space announced on OVHs AS now most space seems to be announced by Los Angeles based ISP Multacom (AS35916). A short view on the website shows that no real services are provided yet massive amounts of IPs are registered to him personally, him as sole trader or his companies at all RIRs: 154.80.0.0/12 - Afrinic - 1.048.574 IPs This is an AFRINIC net assigned to a company in the Seychelles ("Abacus (Seychelles) Limited"), the Person handle and mail shows the connection to OutsideHeaven. The network itself contains smaller assignments, all with the descr of "CloudInnovation infrastructure" and various countries set (AD, SD, YT….), most IPs are not announced at all and seem unused. 5.224.0.0/15 - RIPE - 131.070 IPs A RIPE network from 2012.09 announced by Multacom in LAX outside of the RIPE region. Seems unused. 5.132.0.0/16 - RIPE - 65000 IPs RIPE network dating to 2012.07 (Just 3 months after the /15 was allocated, exactly the timeframe RIPE required a space to be used in to get a new one…), announced on OVH. 37.222.0.0/15 - RIPE - 131.070 IPs Yet another RIPE network from 2012.04 (who can spell 'bribe'?) announced by OVH on France, unused as well. 46.136.0.0/16 - RIPE - 65000 IPs Allocated 2010.11 - Announced by a datacenter in the Netherlands, unused. 31.201.0.0/16 - RIPE - 65000 IPs 2011.04 - Announced in LAX/Multacom. List (not complete, there is more smaller assignments on him): 154.80.0.0/12 - Afrinic - 1.048.574 IPs 185.2.48.0/22 - RIPE - 1024 IPs - 2012.09 5.224.0.0/15 - RIPE - 131.070 IPs - 2012.09 5.132.0.0/16 - RIPE - 65.534 IPs - 2012.07 37.222.0.0/15 - RIPE - 131.070 IPs - 2012.04 31.201.0.0/16 - RIPE - 65.534 IPs - 2011.04 46.136.0.0/16 - RIPE - 65.534 IPs - 2010.11 178.236.224.0/20 - RIPE - 4096 IPs - 2010.06 -- William Weber | RIPE Person: WW | LIR: at.edisgmbh (among others) william(a)edisglobal.com<mailto:william@edisglobal.com> <mailto:william@edisglobal.com> | william(a)william.si<mailto:william@william.si> <mailto:william@william.si> | http://edis.at<http://edis.at/> <http://edis.at/> | http://as57169.net<http://as57169.net/> <http://as57169.net/> EDIS GmbH (AS57169) NOC Maribor, Slovenia Anfang der weitergeleiteten Nachricht: *Von: *William Weber <william(a)edis.at<mailto:william@edis.at> <mailto:william@edis.at>> *Betreff: **Aw: NCC#2013100726 Complaint against a LIR* *Datum: *09. Oktober 2013 13:18:36 MESZ *An: *Andrew de la Haye <andrew(a)ripe.net<mailto:andrew@ripe.net> <mailto:andrew@ripe.net>> Dear Andrew, And who verified that these 2 analysts were not bribed... i know guys buying /12s by bribing AFRINIC officials (in fact, the same LIR as this mail is about "bought" space there also, 154.80.0.0/12) and this isn't unheard in LACNIC/APNIC either, so what tells me RIPE did/does not do the same... Sorry, but this is not really any better now: This guy "accidentally" sits in Amsterdam as well, not even far from you, being Chinese(!) with barely 3000EUR income reports filled 2012/2013 in the Netherlands for his BVs and his sole trader status and has one of the largest total allocations in the entire RIPE region? How can he announce 2(!) *ENTIRE* /15 from an ARIN ASN in Los Angeles while i and others got contacted by RIPE about a measly /24 on an ARIN ASN? Why do his assignments make no sense, look auto generated and never contain any end-user data? Why was this not verified at add-alloc? How does he use over a million IPs on a 100Mbit uplink to his upstream provider? This all is still very fishy and not really impressive... Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards, William Weber -- EDIS GmbH NOC Hauptplatz 3/3 8010 Graz Austria Umsatzsteuer-ID: ATU 64124511 Firmenbuch: FN 308697t phone: +43 316 827 500 fax: +43 316 827 500 777 http://www.edis.at<http://www.edis.at/> <http://www.edis.at/> This message was sent by EDIS GmbH, it is STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL and is solely for the individual or organisation to whom it is addressed. It may contain PRIVILEGED and CONFIDENTIAL information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication and its contents is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us at support(a)edis.at<mailto:support@edis.at> <mailto:support@edis.at> and delete it from your computer. Am 08.10.2013 um 11:55 schrieb Andrew de la Haye <andrew(a)ripe.net<mailto:andrew@ripe.net> <mailto:andrew@ripe.net>>: Dear William, We take your allegations very seriously. As such, your ticket has been escalated to me by Andrea Cima, manager of the RIPE NCC's Registration Services Department. Before the RIPE NCC reached the last /8 of IPv4 address space, we implemented a temporarily enhanced allocation procedure to ensure a fair, neutral and well-documented IPv4 run-out. This procedure was communicated to our membership and community at meetings, via the Address Policy Working Group Mailing List, and via our website. You can find the complete description at: https://ripe65.ripe.net/presentations/204-last_slash_8_NCC_Services.pdf Measures were taken to ensure our members' needs were filled on a first-come, first-served basis, and to ensure that we followed due diligence. Each request was evaluated by two IP Resource Analysts. Furthermore, all large requests (/15 PA or /18 PI or more) were rigorously evaluated by Registration Services Management, checked for policy compliance by our Policy Development Officer, and were finally approved by two RIPE NCC Senior Managers. The IPv4 requests you have listed followed this process completely and, based on the information we received, were entirely justified. If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact me. Kind regards Andrew de la Haye Chief Operations Officer RIPE NCC Singel 258 1016 AB Amsterdam the Netherlands andrew(a)ripe.net<mailto:andrew@ripe.net> <mailto:andrew@ripe.net> tel: +31 20 535 4444 fax: +31 20 535 4445 Am 07.10.2013 um 14:29 schrieb RIPE NCC Hostmaster <hostmaster(a)ripe.net<mailto:hostmaster@ripe.net> <mailto:hostmaster@ripe.net>>: Dear William, As requested I have escalated your complaint to the RIPE NCC Senior Management. They will come back to you ASAP. Best regards, Andrea Cima RIPE NCC On Fri, 4 Oct 2013 16:11:37 +0200, William Weber wrote: Dear Andrea, So if there is no proof for a bribe you do as it does not exist at all? Why did no one tell me this before, i would have come with a suitcase of cash to AMS... Seriously, this statement is worse than what 3rd world dictators state all the time about bribery... Considering that RIPE members have no access to other RIPE members add-alloc (or any other) forms it is also entirely *impossible* to prove lies in them (hey, how should i do that if i can't read them at all?) - Thus it clearly is your obligation to verify this claims OR provide the accuser with access to a system to verify it himself. It is by itself alone VERY suspicious that the single largest allocation for weeks is allocated 8 days before the last /8 is reached to an unknown sole trader without any business.... yes, i think i have enough 'proof' to get this verified by the RIPE, please escalate it to whoever you think is appropriate or i will do so myself today at 00:00 via the RIPE mailing list to ALL members. Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards, William Weber -- EDIS GmbH NOC Am 04.10.2013 um 15:52 schrieb RIPE NCC Hostmaster <hostmaster(a)ripe.net<mailto:hostmaster@ripe.net> <mailto:hostmaster@ripe.net>>: Dear William, All allocations are issued based on RIPE policy and documentation that demonstrates the need for those resources. The information provided by members is confidential and cannot be shared with other members. If you have proof that a member has provided false information to the RIPE NCC, please provide us this proof. Based on this we can then start evaluating the claims and take appropriate actions. The same counts for your accusation of a RIPE NCC emloyee having received a bribe, which is a very serious accusation, that we do not take lightly. Finally it seems there is a misunderstanding about the date on which the RIPE NCC has reached its last /8 policy. The correct date is 14 September 2012. Please find the official announcement at: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/ncc-services-wg/2012-September/00182… Kind regards, Andrea Cima Registration Services Manager RIPE NCC On Thu, 3 Oct 2013 13:49:32 +0200, William Weber wrote: x-ncc-regid: at.edisgmbh (and at.<removed>, li.<removed>, li.<removed>, plus representing <removed> and <removed>) Yes, i have to complain again to evaluate someone.... LIR is nl.outsideheaven I am 100% sure that the allocation of his netblocks have either used false data in the add-alloc forms, plain lies or bribes (which i see as the most likely) - His company has no trading activity in any country (verified with Dutch and Chinese tax authorities) and nothing that would justify the usage of this amounts of IPv4 space. His usage of some of them also violates RIPE rules, most are for example not even announced inside the RIPE region but originate from AS35916 (Multacom in Los Angeles, USA) solely. The assignments while RIPE already reached the last /8 are very questionable as well and overturning a members and board decision. 185.2.48.0/22 - RIPE - 1024 IPs - 2012.09 -> Announced in the ARIN region entirely, not RIPE 5.224.0.0/15 - RIPE - 131.070 IPs - 2012.09 -> Announced in the ARIN region entirely, not RIPE -> How was he able to obtain a /15 5 months AFTER RIPE reached the last /8? 5.132.0.0/16 - RIPE - 65.534 IPs - 2012.07 -> Announced in the ARIN region entirely, not RIPE -> How was he able to obtain a /16 3 months AFTER RIPE reached the last /8? 37.222.0.0/15 - RIPE - 131.070 IPs - 2012.04 -> How was he able to obtain a /15 1 month AFTER RIPE reached the last /8? 31.201.0.0/16 - RIPE - 65.534 IPs - 2011.04 -> Announced in the ARIN region entirely, not RIPE Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards, William Weber -- EDIS GmbH NOC ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Christian Hoffmann Geschäftsführender Gesellschafter ---- sfip84 Hosting und mehr UG (haftungsbeschränkt) Winterhuder Weg 29 DE-22085 Hamburg Tel.: +49 (0) 40 / 22 81 56 17 0 Fax.: +49 (0) 40 / 22 81 56 17 9 - vetretungsberechtigter Gesellschafter: Christian Hoffmann USt-IdNr.: DE282309913 Registergericht: Hamburg HRB 121712 -- [ Ein Geschäft, das nur Geld einbringt, ist ein schlechtes Geschäft. ] ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.

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Marketing? Really?
by Sander Steffann 23 Oct '13

23 Oct '13

Hi, I just noticed this on the NCC website: http://www.ripe.net/lir-services/ncc/jobs/current-openings/marketing-and-pr… From that page: " This is a high profile role within the organisation [...] to develop a high-level marketing, branding and PR strategy for all services." and "General Duties: [...] Write powerful and engaging promotional content for the organisation’s products and services [...]" It really surprises me that the NCC, being a membership organisation, needs someone for marketing its products and services... I hope I am just misunderstanding this :-) Cheers, Sander

13 20

НА: Marketing? Really?
by Vladislav Potapov 22 Oct '13

22 Oct '13

Me too. And many "outgoing" activities like RIPE meetings an so... too. I'm fully satisfied with the latest finance documents. At least they have the information I asked. Vladislav Potapov ru.iiat -----Исходное сообщение----- От: "Jānis Jaunošāns" <jj(a)streamnetworks.lv> Отправлено: ‎22.‎10.‎2013 21:46 Кому: "members-discuss(a)ripe.net" <members-discuss(a)ripe.net> Тема: Re: [members-discuss] Marketing? Really? I like atlas and labs :( On 10/22/13 7:49 PM, Daniel Stolpe wrote: > On Tue, 22 Oct 2013, Sander Steffann wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I just noticed this on the NCC website: >> http://www.ripe.net/lir-services/ncc/jobs/current-openings/marketing-and-pr… >> >>> From that page: " This is a high profile role within the organisation [...] to develop a high-level marketing, branding and PR strategy for all services." >> and "General Duties: [...] Write powerful and engaging promotional content for the organisation?s products and services [...]" >> >> It really surprises me that the NCC, being a membership organisation, needs someone for marketing its products and services... >> >> I hope I am just misunderstanding this :-) > Hi Sander, > > Well, you know, it doesn't surprise me that much, considering the > employees talking about the NCC as a company while it in many ways is > everything but a company. I think it has many similarities with a > government entity. People do a lot of divese things and nobody is > responsible for the financies. (Axel just goes to Nigel and says "I need > 20 millinon euros next year, and then the board suggest a membership fee > that will cover the expenses and we are done). > > According to the activity plan, about 30ish people work with the core > business: registry services. And about 100 do other stuff. Of course there > has to be some infrastructure around but I still don't get what all of > them are doing. > > I would be very happy to see a document stating what the NCC are supposed > to do. And not do. > > Atlas, and labs and "no name" services are things I could do without. For > example > > Cheers, > > Daniel > > _________________________________________________________________________________ > Daniel Stolpe Tel: 08 - 688 11 81 stolpe(a)resilans.se > Resilans AB Fax: 08 - 55 00 21 63 http://www.resilans.se/ > Box 13 054 556741-1193 > 103 02 Stockholm > > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. -- Tālrunis: +371 67788888 ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.

4 3

Re: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [news] The Future of the RIPE Database Proxy Service
by Nick Hilliard 08 Apr '13

08 Apr '13

I can't see a compelling reason to make it into a member-only service, and the existing organisations who use the service seem to gain some value from it, so discontinuing it probably isn't in the best interest of the RIPE NCC's core purpose of being a RIR. As there are only 4 users of the service, there seems little point in charging. I'd be happy to see this turned into a free but contract-based service. Nick On 05/03/2013 10:20, Axel Pawlik wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > Following the discussion about the RIPE Database Proxy Service, we have > investigated several options for the future of the service. I'd like to > first give you an overview of the issue at hand. A detailed analysis is > provided below that for those of you who would like to see the finer details. > > We are now asking for feedback on this issue from the membership. No > actions will be taken regarding the service until an appropriate way > forward has been indicated by the membership. > > The aim of the RIPE NCC is to keep the registry open and accessible to > everyone at all times, just as it always has been. The options are intended > to deal with the potential for republishing and possible abuse arising out > of that republishing, which the RIPE NCC believes is the core issue at hand. > > None of the options we investigated would result in any reduced access to > RIPE Database data. > > Although they can be carried out in a number of ways, there are three basic > options as we see it: > - Make it a members-only service > - A contractual service (free or paid) > - Discontinue the service > > Over the next six-week period, ending 15 April 2013, we would like to > invite the membership to discuss and provide input on their preferred way > forward. The RIPE NCC Executive Board will summarise the discussion and > propose a way forward at the RIPE NCC Services Working Group. If a > resolution from members is required, it will take place at the General > Meeting. In the meantime, the RIPE NCC will continue to offer the RIPE > Database Proxy Service free of charge. However, no new contracts for this > service will be issued until its status has been resolved. > > We therefore urge you to put forward your opinions and preference on how we > can best move forward with the RIPE Database Proxy Service by emailing > <members-discuss(a)ripe.net>. > > Best regards, > > Axel Pawlik > Managing Director > RIPE NCC > > > ============================ > DETAILED ANALYSIS > ============================ > > The Options > ----------- > Option 1 - The RIPE Database Proxy Service becomes a member-only service > > Option 2a - The RIPE Database Proxy Service remains a free contractual > service (this is the current situation) > Option 2b - The RIPE Database Proxy Service becomes a paid contractual service > > Option 3a - Discontinue the RIPE Database Proxy Service (the RIPE NCC is > the sole official provider of the RIPE Database web-interface) and retain > the query limits > Option 3b - Discontinue the RIPE Database Proxy Service and remove the > query limits > Option 3c - Discontinue the RIPE Database Proxy Service and change the > default RIPE Database query not to show any personal data, and allow > personal data to be returned only when a special query flag with limits is > used. > > The RIPE NCC is able to facilitate any of the options presented here. > However, the RIPE NCC Executive Board believes that transitioning the RIPE > Database Proxy Service to a member service is most closely in line with the > way other contractual services have been handled. In addition, > incorporating the service into the membership would minimise costs while > continuing the service. > > General Legal Analysis > ---------------------- > As noted in the RIPE NCC Data Protection Report, the provision of unlimited > access to the RIPE Database could lead to abuse of the personal data in the > RIPE Database. In the Acceptable Use Policy, the RIPE NCC clearly defines > access limits to the personal data in the RIPE Database. Users exceeding > these limits have their access to further personal data blocked for a > period of time. > > The AUP also takes into account queries made to the RIPE Database through > web interfaces hosted by third parties (proxies). The RIPE NCC, through the > proxy service, gives the authority to third parties to provide access to > the RIPE Database through a web interface they operate. Currently, queries > through the proxy service are subject to higher query limits because such > interfaces are intended to be used by more than one user. Queries from a > proxy will be seen as queries from individual IP addresses and individual > query limits for personal data apply. > > The RIPE Data Protection Report: > http://www.ripe.net/lir-services/ncc/legal/ripe-ncc-data-protection-report > > Acceptable Use Policy: > http://www.ripe.net/data-tools/support/documentation/aup > > Options 1 and 2 - Legal Analysis > -------------------------------- > There is little difference from a legal point of view whether the proxy > service is made available only to members or is a contractual service > available to anyone. > > A membership agreement has different rights and obligations and strengthens > the legal relationship between the RIPE NCC and the other party. > > The RIPE Database Terms and Conditions would also need to be updated to > include obligations for RIPE Database Proxy service contract holders. > > Option 3 - Legal Analysis > ------------------------- > There are no legal implications for option 3a. > > For option 3b, the query limits were put in place to prevent/impede the > harvesting and abuse of personal information in the RIPE Database. The Data > Protection Task Force (DPTF) considered this an effective and appropriate > part of the RIPE NCC's due diligence. Almost five years after the > implementation of this measure, the RIPE community could reassess the > effectiveness and proportionality of having query limits. If the measure is > deemed to be ineffective and disproportionate, the RIPE NCC could remove > query limits. > > Option 3c offers the best data protection from a legal perspective. This > option would limit direct personal data exposure while retaining the query > limit. However, from a functionality perspective, this might not be wanted. > > Option 1 - Administrative and Technical Analysis > ------------------------------------------------ > This option would have little administrative impact. Administrative > processes are already in place, including a proxy agreement for members. > Signing up for the service could in the future be integrated in the LIR > Portal, removing any need for manual processing of requests. The RIPE NCC > website and publications would need to be updated. All customers would need > to be informed. > > Option 2 - Administrative and Technical Analysis > ------------------------------------------------ > This option would involve more administrative overhead for the RIPE NCC. > The proxy service contract holder list would need to be managed manually, > or software would need to be developed for this purpose. All contract > holders would need to be informed and new agreements would need to be drawn > up and sent to the users. The RIPE NCC website and publications would need > to be updated. If the service remains free, no further administrative work > would be needed. > > Option 3 - Administrative and Technical Analysis > ------------------------------------------------ > This option would involve the least amount of work for the RIPE NCC. There > would be a small amount of temporary administrative work, including > contacting customers to inform them of the action and removing references > to the service from the website and publications. > > General Financial Analysis > -------------------------- > Generally speaking, the financial impact is minimal. The total costs and > the additional revenue is low in all scenarios. The cost to maintain the > service from a technical perspective are low, although it adds complexity > to the overall RIPE Database software and requires some level of additional > maintenance. It is difficult to quantify this indirect cost, but it is > contrary to RIPE NCC efforts to clean up legacy software and complexity. > > The additional revenue resulting from option 1 would, given the current > number of active users of the service, be in the range of 5-10 kEUR per > annum (there are currently four users). > > For option 2b, if the fee was to cover the costs of the service including > administration and other related overheads, with there being so few users > the fee would probably be higher than the current membership fee. > > In the other scenarios, the additional revenue is irrelevant. > > Your Feedback > ------------- > Again, we need your input and ask that you discuss this service and make > your opinion known. You can give your feedback by mailing > <members-discuss(a)ripe.net>. >

9 11

Re: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [news] The Future of the RIPE Database Proxy Service
by Sander Steffann 14 Mar '13

14 Mar '13

Hi, >> To give an example: one of them is at >> http://www.geektools.com/whois.php. > > And I'm so glad to be (as a paying RIPE member, and as an ICANN accredited > domain registrar running whois servers) funding their business model of > providing a "service" with adsense plastered all over the page(s) querying > "my" databases ... I am sorry, it seems you have looked at a different site. Unless you count one ad at the bottom of the page as 'adsense plastered all over the page(s)'. Let's keep the FUD out of this discussion, shall we? Sander

4 3

Re: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [news] The Future of the RIPE Database Proxy Service
by Brandon Butterworth 14 Mar '13

14 Mar '13

> Nick has summarised this well, and I fall into the free-but-contract camp. Likewise, I did reply when he posted but the moderator chose to reject it brandon

1 0

Re: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [news] The Future of the RIPE Database Proxy Service
by Sander Steffann 11 Mar '13

11 Mar '13

Hi, > Time to drop something which is only used by 4 people It is not only used by 4 people, it's used by 4 *services*. Basically the proxy service is the feature that a few services (those 4) can add a field to the request that specifies that they query the database on behalf of an end-user and they provide that end-user's IP address in the request so that the RIPE Whois server can apply rate limits to that end-user. To give an example: one of them is at http://www.geektools.com/whois.php. > some of whom aren't even members The RIPE NCC has a responsibility for all internet users, not only its own members... > It's already bad enough with a-n-other-supplier going down your ripe AS > membership list trying to flog cr@p to your clients, when said supplier is > an LIR, having every nut on the planet doing so is going to get very very > very tiresome and simply lead to people not putting anything in the RIPE-DB > in the first place (as most have already decided) The whole point of providing the on-behalf-of parameter in the query is to be able to avoid people harvesting the RIPE DB by applying rate limits... The only 'risk' is that the service providers would send in queries with fake client addresses to bypass the rate limits. That is the reason why people suggest letting them sign a contract. And since there are only a few users it's easy to kick them off when they would abuse the proxy feature. So removing the proxy feature (remember: just one query option to facilitate rate limiting) doesn't make any difference for what you describe... Cheers, Sander

2 1

Re: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [news] The Future of the RIPE Database Proxy Service
by Nick Hilliard 11 Mar '13

11 Mar '13

On 11/03/2013 20:57, Rob Golding wrote: > Time to drop something which is only used by 4 people - some of whom aren't > even members I'm not clear how dropping the ripe proxy service would stop the sales trawling you described. Nick

2 1

Re: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [news] The Future of the RIPE Database Proxy Service
by Sascha Lenz 10 Mar '13

10 Mar '13

Hi all, > Dear colleagues, > > Following the discussion about the RIPE Database Proxy Service, we have investigated several options for the future of the service. I'd like to first give you an overview of the issue at hand. A detailed analysis is provided below that for those of you who would like to see the finer details. [...] well i still don't see much need for the service i must admit, but if some people want to use it... I actually would prefer making this a member-only or paid-service, but after re-reading some parts of the discussion about the issue before, i guess the free-but-contract-based approach might be the most intelligent choice without upsetting those who use it and it seems to be without negative impact for the rest of the members. ==> Option 2a -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Kind Regards Sascha Lenz [SLZ-RIPE] Senior System- & Network Architect

1 0

RIPE Database Proxy Service
by fg＠numlog.fr 09 Mar '13

09 Mar '13

Hello, As the proxy service benefits of higher query limits, restricting the use of this service to members only, looks the minimum limitation in order to fight against personal data mining. But my preference goes to option 3c : > Option 3c - Discontinue the RIPE Database Proxy Service and change the > default RIPE Database query not to show any personal data, and allow > personal data to be returned only when a special query flag with > limits is used. IMHO, it's not that frequent to need to access to personal data, except for spammers, so this solution is the better. Best regards, Francis

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Filtering issue in 128/8
by Bertrand MAUJEAN 08 Feb '13

08 Feb '13

Hello, We received an allocation starting at 128.127.128.0 a few years ago. It's quite pleasant for mnemonic reasons, but we face serious outgoing SMTP problems toward live.com services, since the day we installed the first SMTP server with one of theses addresses. Microsoft publish some recommendations (http://mail.live.com/mail/policies.aspx) but even following theses recommendations carefully we cannot solve our problem. We tried to contact MS directly, without any success (postmaster, hostmaster, contact in routing database, peering contact...), but they seems pretty autistic (either no answer or pointing us the already known web site). Tests have been conducted using IP address that did not send any packet for several years (cannot be listed as spammer). Problem is only for our block in 128/8 (we have a lot of other). This block is not as European as other (ARIN administered), but RIPE allocated to us from it. Does someone have similar issues with 128/8 ? Does someone know the good contact ? Thank you, Regards, Bertrand

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Re: [members-discuss] Filtering issue in 128/8
by Francois.Claire＠ses.com 07 Feb '13

07 Feb '13

Hi Bertrand, I might have a solution for you. Just send me a PM for details. Francois. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bertrand MAUJEAN [bmaujean(a)rmi.fr] Sent: 02/06/2013 05:05 PM GMT To: "members-discuss(a)ripe.net" <members-discuss(a)ripe.net> Subject: [members-discuss] Filtering issue in 128/8 Hello, We received an allocation starting at 128.127.128.0 a few years ago. It's quite pleasant for mnemonic reasons, but we face serious outgoing SMTP problems toward live.com services, since the day we installed the first SMTP server with one of theses addresses. Microsoft publish some recommendations (http://mail.live.com/mail/policies.aspx) but even following theses recommendations carefully we cannot solve our problem. We tried to contact MS directly, without any success (postmaster, hostmaster, contact in routing database, peering contact...), but they seems pretty autistic (either no answer or pointing us the already known web site). Tests have been conducted using IP address that did not send any packet for several years (cannot be listed as spammer). Problem is only for our block in 128/8 (we have a lot of other). This block is not as European as other (ARIN administered), but RIPE allocated to us from it. Does someone have similar issues with 128/8 ? Does someone know the good contact ? Thank you, Regards, Bertrand ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.

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From Good to Great - Wishing You All the Best in 2013!
by Maxim Usatov 08 Jan '13

08 Jan '13

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[ncc-announce] SEE 2/RIPE NCC Regional Meeting: Call for Presentations
by Serge Radovcic 20 Nov '12

20 Nov '12

Dear colleagues, Please find the Call for Papers (CfP) for the South East Europe (SEE) meeting below. Kind regards, Serge Radovcic RIPE NCC <https://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/regional-meetings/see-2/cfp> -------------------------------------------------------- SEE 2/RIPE NCC Regional Meeting: Call for Presentations -------------------------------------------------------- Are you an experienced network operator willing to share your expertise with your peers in South East Europe? Following the tremendous success of the inaugural South Eastern Europe (SEE)/RIPE NC Regional Meeting in 2011 in Dubrovnik, we are now planning to hold a follow-up meeting in the region, this time in Skopje, Macedonia. These regional meetings offer network engineers and other technical staff an opportunity to share their knowledge and experience, and to identify areas for regional cooperation. The meetings are open to anyone and there is no cost to attend. The purpose of the meeting is to: * Encourage the cooperation of operators in the region, enabling them to exchange information and discuss the issues that affect them * Enable the RIPE NCC to further support Local Internet Registries (LIRs) in the region. * Present the latest developments in the Internet industry. SEE 2 runs from 22-23 April 2013 in Skopje, Macedonia. The meeting agenda will consist of plenary sessions, tutorials, hands-on workshops as well as long coffee breaks, lunches, and evening social events with plenty of time for attendees to meet each other face-to-face. The SEE Programme Committee (PC) is currently looking for network operators and researchers in South East Europe who would like to teach a technical tutorial or lead a workshop and/or give a technical presentation during the conference. Submission topics include (but are not limited to): * IPv6 (in general) * BGP and routing * Network management and monitoring (BSS/OSS/NMS) * Internet exchanges * DNS/DNSSEC/IDN * Policy and regulatory aspects Presentation proposals can be submitted here: <http://papers.apia.org/paper/user/index.php?event=15> Conference Milestones * Call for Papers opens: 19 November 2012 * Deadline for first proposal: 21 January 2013 * Deadline for second proposal: 11 February 2013 * Final programme published: 1 April 2013 * Final slides: 15 April 2013 Please note that marketing/commercial content will not be considered. The presenter should come from a technical background rather than sales or marketing. A draft version of the presentation (PPT or PDF) must be submitted with the talk proposal. This draft version should outline the content flow of the talk and any key messages. -------------------------- Guidelines for Submissions -------------------------- When considering a presentation, workshop or tutorial, remember that the audience will mainly be comprised of technical network operators and engineers with varying levels of experience. Workshops/tutorials are 90-minutes long and should focus on teaching core skills and basic knowledge. Conference presentations should address issues that ISPs and network operators could face over the next 12-18 months in their day-to-day operations. Conference presenters should plan for a 20-minute presentation followed by a 5-minute Q&A period. ---------------------------------- Notification of Accepted Presentations ---------------------------------- The SEE 2 PC will confirm acceptance of your presentation proposal by 25 March 2013. Late submissions that are exceptionally timely or of critical operational importance will be considered on a case-by-case basis. Funding and Support SEE 2 is a not-for-profit event that aims to keep the cost of attending as low as possible. For this reason, SEE is unable to subsidise the cost of travel for speakers. If you have any queries or suggestions about the SEE 2/RIPE NCC Regional Meeting, please email: <seeurope(a)ripe.net >

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[ncc-announce] RIPE NCC Webinars - new dates
by Training Mailbox 19 Nov '12

19 Nov '12

[Apologies for duplicate e-mails] Dear colleagues, We are pleased to announce the launch of new dates for our Webinars for LIRs. The RIPE NCC Webinars are live, one hour online training courses that allow participants to interact with our trainers without leaving their desks. We focus on the topics and issues most important for LIRs. Register now at https://www.ripe.net/lir-services/training/e-learning/webinars Participation is limited to 20 people, so don't hesitate if you want to take part! If you have questions, please email <e-learning(a)ripe.net>. We look forward to seeing you online. Kind regards, RIPE NCC Training Services

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[ncc-announce] Network Maintenance: 15 November, 17:00-19:00
by Menno Schepers 14 Nov '12

14 Nov '12

Dear colleagues, On Thursday, 15 November 2012 between 17:00-19:00 (UTC), the RIPE NCC will carry out maintenance work on its core network infrastructure. Please be advised that there will be intermittent access to all services hosted by the RIPE NCC during this period. We apologise for any inconvenience this may cause. If you have any questions, please contact <ops(a)ripe.net>. Kind regards, Menno Schepers RIPE NCC

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[ncc-announce] DNSMON Measurements lost 9:00 - 11:00 CET
by Sean McAvoy 12 Nov '12

12 Nov '12

[Apologies for duplicate e-mails] Dear colleagues, As a side effect of upgrading the DNSMON/TTM backends, some DNSMON measurement data was lost this morning between 9:00 and 11:00 CET (8:00 and 11:00 UTC). We apologise for any inconvenience this may have caused. Regards, Sean McAvoy, Senior Systems Engineer RIPE NCC

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resource requesting service
by Lu Heng 10 Nov '12

10 Nov '12

Hi I have an advice that maybe it will be good to have a resource requesting service, so people need resource can list their request on the listing service(just like the one listing for sale), not only the person do not need the allocation, but also person like to have the allocation, it would be very useful. How everybody think? -- -- Kind regards. Lu This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) shown above. It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by persons other than the intended addressee(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify this office immediately and e-mail the original at the sender's address above by replying to this message and including the text of the transmission received.

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[ncc-announce] RIPE NCC Listing Service: Streamlining Resource Transfers
by Andrew de la Haye 07 Nov '12

07 Nov '12

Dear colleagues, A year ago the RIPE NCC introduced the Listing Service, aimed at streamlining the resource transfer process: https://www.ripe.net/lir-services/resource-management/listing At this time, it only enables RIPE NCC members to list the IPv4 address space they hold and no longer need. Since the depletion of the available IPv4 address pool, there has been an increasing demand from the membership for a service that allows LIRs to request IPv4 address space for transfer. To fulfil this demand, we are currently building an addition to the Listing Service to provide this functionality. RIPE NCC Members will be able to post a request on the Listing Service indicating a prefix size, whether a permanent or temporary transfer is desired, and any other details they wish to disclose. Only RIPE NCC members will be able to view the details in the LIR Portal. On the public website, we will display the total size of all address space that is being requested, without disclosing the identity or other details of the requesters. If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Kind regards, Andrew de la Haye COO RIPE NCC

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[ncc-announce] RIPE NCC Launches Technical Emergency Hotline
by Jochem de Ruig 05 Nov '12

05 Nov '12

Dear colleagues, We are proud to announce the launch of the RIPE NCC Technical Emergency Hotline: https://www.ripe.net/contact/technical-emergency-hotline RIPE NCC members told us that they needed to reach us 24/7 in emergency situations following the reverse DNS outage in June 2012. Our members asked and we listened. The RIPE NCC Technical Emergency Hotline is: *+31 (0) 20 626 3571* During office hours [Monday-Friday, 09:00-17:00 (UTC+1)], any calls to the hotline will be redirected to the RIPE NCC front office. Outside of office hours, the number will redirect to a reputable third-party company trained to evaluate the calls and pass on the details of a legitimate report immediately to the appropriate RIPE NCC 24/7 team. As this is a new service, we will be watching it closely over the next few months so that we can evaluate it and make any adjustments to the service if needed. We will report our findings back to RIPE NCC members. Kind regards, Jochem de Ruig RIPE NCC

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Re: [members-discuss] [Ticket#2012072401002498] Top 20 LIRs use 33% Allocated PA, 88% of LIRs use 10% Allocated PA.
by Jon Morby 25 Aug '12

25 Aug '12

On 2 Aug 2012, at 16:36, Rob Golding <rob.golding(a)othellotech.net<mailto:rob.golding@othellotech.net>> wrote: My objection isn't even on the current method if "sizing", but on the 7% budget increase, when .... 541,000 on RPKI for a "routing database" because (apparantly) people dont trust the existing database (which costs 844,000) - and hasnt the project been canned anyway ? 427,000 on "outreach" - it's a RIR - what advertising does it need to do ? 989,000 on measurement - presumably the usb "dongles" project - why exactly are we wasting members money on this ? Simply junking those items and you've saved nearly 15% for a start agreed 100% Jon -- Jon Morby FidoNet - the internet made simple! 10 - 16 Tiller Road, London, E14 8PX tel: 0845 004 3050 / fax: 0845 004 3051

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