- members-discuss - mailman.ripe.net

Re: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [GM] Consultation on RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2024
by Josh Jameson 07 Mar '23

07 Mar '23

Dear Members, ServeByte Limited is in favor of the new proposed pricing model 2, to abolish the current membership fee model. We find that it is a much fairer pricing model for small service providers. All of our costs have increased over the past few years, but clawing higher fees from small LIR members is unsustainable. It discourages direct RIPE membership and instead encourages people to merge their resources, under a single LIR for little to no extra cost. We have even considered this. Thank you for your time. Yours Faithfully, Josh Jameson Technical Director ServeByte Limited

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Re: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [GM] Consultation on RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2024
by Daniel Suchy 07 Mar '23

07 Mar '23

Hello, can you provide analysis for "Model 2" describing number of LIRs in each category drafted in calculation? Can you demonstrate RIPE NCC income from membership fees based on that model you're presenting currently? I expect NCC has such numbers and shoult present them to members. - Daniel On 3/7/23 10:35, Simon Jan Haytink wrote: > Dear RIPE NCC members, > > We would like to re-open the consultation we began with the membership in 2021 on the RIPE NCC Charging Scheme model, and we would like to carry out that consultation well in advance of the RIPE NCC General Meeting (GM) May 2023. > > In 2021, we presented on this topic at the GM, and we also surveyed our members and held an open house to get direct input on the charging scheme model that members would like to see implemented by the RIPE NCC. The outcome at that stage of the consultation was that there were strong cases made for both the current one-LIR, one-fee model and for a category-based model that would charge based on the number of resources held by a member. A strong case was also made to charge for all resources allocated or assigned by the RIPE NCC, including ASNs, and to charge a fee for transfers. > > The Executive Board decided to suspend the consultation in light of the war in Ukraine, but we are eager to decide on a way forward on this matter together with the membership. > > One of the main reasons that we would like to advance the discussion on the charging model is that we expect many members with multiple LIR accounts who received resources in 2021 to merge these accounts in the coming year. This means that the income the RIPE NCC receives will be reduced by a significant amount and we will need to ensure that our charging model allows us to collect the revenue required to maintain our operations. We believe that a category-based model would be best suited to cover this consolidation risk. Continuing with the existing model would mean that an increase in fees for all members would be required. Our ultimate goal is to arrive at a charging scheme model that will be sustainable for many years to come, meeting the needs of the RIPE NCC’s members. > > To help with discussion and to provide something tangible for members to assess, we are putting forward two draft models for members to review. These models can be summarised as: > > Model 1: A “one-LIR, one-fee” model based on the current RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2023 that also charges for independent resources, ASNs, transfers and changes in business structure such as Mergers & Acquisitions. > > Model 2: A category-based model that charges per member (not per LIR account) and is based on resources registered and that also charges for independent resources, ASNs, transfers and changes in business structure such as Mergers & Acquisitions. > > In order to allow members to form an opinion based on their own situation, we are providing an Excel sheet that will allow you to calculate the fees you would pay under each of the draft models. It is important to be aware that at this stage, the numbers assigned for each item are indicative and would be reviewed in light of the discussion with members. We plan to review these figures following consultation with the members, and giving input on those figures would greatly help to arrive at a good model. > > You can download the Excel sheet from: > https://www.ripe.net/participate/mail/member-and-community-consultations/me… > > We also plan to hold another Open House meeting on the Charging Scheme in March to further discuss the charging scheme models. The Executive Board will then take the input and decide on one or more charging schemes for the membership to vote on at the GM to be held on 24 May 2023. The outcome of that vote will determine the charging scheme model to be used in the coming years. > > I ask that you provide your input on this important consultation on the Membership Discussion mailing list (members-discuss(a)ripe.net) by 26 April. Input provided up to this date will be considered by the Board when formulating the charging schemes to be proposed for the GM. Input after this date is of course also welcome although it might not be reflected in the schemes put forward to the membership at the GM. > > The consultation will also be recorded and available from: > https://www.ripe.net/participate/mail/member-and-community-consultations > > I look forward to your input. > > Kind regards, > > Simon Jan Haytink > Finance Director > RIPE NCC > > Summary > > 7 March: Start consultation with membership on RIPE NCC Charging Scheme model > 21 March: Open House to discuss charging scheme with membership > 24 March: Executive Board meeting to discuss input received so far > 12 April: Publication of Draft RIPE NCC Charging Schemes 2024 > 26 April: Publication of Final RIPE NCC Charging Schemes to be voted on by members > 24 May: RIPE NCC General Meeting May 2023 > > References > > Open House and Survey Results > https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/open-house/ripe-ncc-open-house-ch… > > Presentation at General Meeting > https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/gm/meetings/may-2021/documentatio… >

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Board minutes regarding investigation
by Sander Steffann 24 Jan '23

24 Jan '23

Hi board, I am looking at the minutes of board meeting 163, and I have a few questions. The minutes state that "The investigation was tasked to identify whether there have been violations of the RIPE NCC Code of Conduct”. At the last AGM I asked if there was a Code of Conduct for board members, and as far as I remember there wasn’t any. So which Code of Conduct do you refer to here? If it is different from the RIPE Code of Conduct please provide either a link or the full text. Looking at the RIPE Code of Conduct, which applies to all of us in this community, it identifies some examples of positive behaviour, like accepting differing viewpoints and experiences, being considerate and showing empathy towards others, especially when disagreeing or raising issues, and giving/receiving feedback or suggestions in a positive way. It follows with "Behaviours that undermine our values are unacceptable and will not be tolerated." I have personally definitely seen behaviour contradicting the points mentioned above from the board member in question (and I have heard many others express the same) but apparently they ARE now being tolerated. Please explain this discrepancy between the Code of Conduct and the outcome of this investigation. The goals of the Code of conduct are to help everyone feel safe and included and to make everyone aware of expected behaviour. As far as I can see we have failed on both accounts here… Sincerely, Sander Steffann PS: just to make sure, who actually performed the investigation? I assume it was a completely independent party with no previous, current or future ties to the RIPE NCC, financial or otherwise. Please confirm.

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Re: [members-discuss] Board minutes regarding investigation
by Terrence de Kat 20 Jan '23

20 Jan '23

Hi Sander, Yeah, maybe "neutral" isn't the best way to describe it. Let's say there's a spectrum that goes: positive > neutral > negative but tolerable > intolerable/unacceptable (undermines values) Where only the worst category would be actionable. For your "death by a thousand cuts principle", that could in certain cases be harassment that would be actionable (eg when repeatedly directed at the same person), and the CoC explicitly leaves room for this by specifying the list is non-exhaustive. However, this is well into subjective territory. Some people have a natural communication style that's abrasive (it's been said about me). Someone may experience this as negative communication, while others may describe it as direct and therefore actually positive (I myself prefer to interpret it like this if possible). Besides that, life in general isn't only positive, so to communicate effectively negative communication is a necessary tool in the toolbox. Negative doesn't equal bad. So, we shouldn't want negative communication chilled by subjecting it to process just because it's negative. Personally I'd err on the side of not interfering in communication unless it's clearly malicious as the examples in the CoC. Having said that, I don't actually know what communication by the board member you're referring to, so I don't mean to defend that specifically. Though, it seems the investigator came to the conclusion that it didn't rise to the intolerable/unacceptable level. But that doesn't mean it's positive in any way. -- Regards, Terrence de Kat, PhD/MTh/BPsy Darkness Reigns (Holding) B.V. Please quote relevant replies. From: Sander Steffann <sander(a)steffann.nl> Sent: Wednesday, 18 January 2023 15:38 To: Terrence de Kat Cc: <members-discuss(a)ripe.net>; Christian Kaufmann Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Board minutes regarding investigation > Hi Terrence, > > > So, there exists a (very wide) range of communication that doesn't align with the given "examples of positive behavior", nor with the given "examples [of behaviours that undermine our values]". Let's call this "neutral" communication. > > Hmmm. I see your point. I feel it’s a given that behaviour that is totally opposite to "positive behaviour" is automatically “bad behaviour”, so I wouldn’t call that “neutral”. > > My feeling is that there is a gap between “bad behaviour that warrants immediate consequences” and “bad behaviour that is just annoying by itself, but should warrant consequences if it becomes a pattern”. The death by a thousand cuts principle. The consequences for the victim are no less in the latter case, but it is much harder to determine which little cut was the one that crossed the line. > > How to protect victims from both behaviours, sadly I do know know :( > > Cheers, > Sander >

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Re: [members-discuss] Board minutes regarding investigation
by Terrence de Kat 18 Jan '23

18 Jan '23

Hi Sander, While reading your email I noticed that you may be making an error in interpreting the CoC, or at least leaving it ambiguous as to what you mean. You reproduce the "examples of positive behaviour" and the following statement that "Behaviours that undermine our values are unacceptable and will not be tolerated". Next you refer to "the points mentioned above", which creates the impression that you believe communication that does not align with the given "examples of positive behavior" is also communication that "undermine[s] our values" and therefore breaches the CoC. I don't think that follows from the CoC as what follows the statement that "Behaviours that undermine our values are unacceptable and will not be tolerated" is "Below are some examples [of behaviours that undermine our values]". So, there exists a (very wide) range of communication that doesn't align with the given "examples of positive behavior", nor with the given "examples [of behaviours that undermine our values]". Let's call this "neutral" communication. This may explain the discrepancy you complain about. If I have interpreted your message incorrectly I apologize but suggest you clarify. -- Regards, Terrence de Kat, PhD/MTh/BPsy Darkness Reigns (Holding) B.V. Please quote relevant replies. From: Sander Steffann <sander(a)steffann.nl> Sent: Wednesday, 18 January 2023 14:08 To: members-discuss(a)ripe.net; exec-board(a)ripe.net Subject: [members-discuss] Board minutes regarding investigation > Hi board, > > I am looking at the minutes of board meeting 163, and I have a few questions. > > The minutes state that "The investigation was tasked to identify whether there have been violations of the RIPE NCC Code of Conduct”. At the last AGM I asked if there was a Code of Conduct for board members, and as far as I remember there wasn’t any. So which Code of Conduct do you refer to here? If it is different from the RIPE Code of Conduct please provide either a link or the full text. > > Looking at the RIPE Code of Conduct, which applies to all of us in this community, it identifies some examples of positive behaviour, like accepting differing viewpoints and experiences, being considerate and showing empathy towards others, especially when disagreeing or raising issues, and giving/receiving feedback or suggestions in a positive way. It follows with "Behaviours that undermine our values are unacceptable and will not be tolerated." > > I have personally definitely seen behaviour contradicting the points mentioned above from the board member in question (and I have heard many others express the same) but apparently they ARE now being tolerated. Please explain this discrepancy between the Code of Conduct and the outcome of this investigation. > > The goals of the Code of conduct are to help everyone feel safe and included and to make everyone aware of expected behaviour. As far as I can see we have failed on both accounts here… > > Sincerely, > Sander Steffann > > PS: just to make sure, who actually performed the investigation? I assume it was a completely independent party with no previous, current or future ties to the RIPE NCC, financial or otherwise. Please confirm. > > > _______________________________________________ > members-discuss mailing list > members-discuss(a)ripe.net > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss > Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/terrence%40darkness-…

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RIPE NCC Quarterly Planning Q1 2023
by Fergal Cunningham 03 Jan '23

03 Jan '23

Dear RIPE NCC members, We have now published our Q1 2023 plans for our development teams. These are available at: https://www.ripe.net/support/documentation/quarterly-planning <https://www.ripe.net/support/documentation/quarterly-planning> Our quarterly planning includes the work we will be carrying out in the next few months in: - RPKI - Learning & Development - RIPE Database - Business Applications, including the LIR Portal, Registry Services and other applications. - DNS and K-root - RIPE Atlas - RIPEstat - RIS - Information Technology - Information Security, Risk and Compliance Previously, any work items related to information security, risk and compliance were included in the Information Technology area. As the Information Security, Risk, and Compliance area keeps developing, we split the work items and created a separate area for them that can be found at: https://www.ripe.net/support/documentation/quarterly-planning/information-s… The goals of publishing our planning are to be transparent about the work we will be carrying out in the coming months, to get your input on those plans, and to foster a dialogue with our members and the community about what you would like to see the RIPE NCC work on going forward. If you have any input on our plans or want to let us know what you would like to see us work on, please let us know. Kind regards, and best wishes for the new year. Fergal Cunningham Head of Membership Engagement RIPE NCC

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Transfers from Ukraine
by Leonid Khorolets 08 Nov '22

08 Nov '22

We are against the initiative to ban all the transfers of IP addresses from Ukraine! We want to have this source of funds to keep our network running and pay salaries! Please note, there are NO CONSENSUS about transfer block in Ukrainian community, and those people on the meeting does not represent a majority of Ukrainian LIRs, they represent only themselves.

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Re: [members-discuss] [ripe-list] A frank discussion
by Lu Heng 03 Nov '22

03 Nov '22

Hi Nabeel: The letter was published on 12th July(signed by APNIC Paul Wilson, LACNIC Oscar Robles, ARIN John Curran RIPE Hans Peter Hollen): https://www.nro.net/nro-letter-to-mauritius-government/ In the letter, NRO request to make RIR "international organisation" to achieve "better outcome". on September 8th, the Mauritius government rejected a request from AFRINIC to become an "international organization" https://www.nrs.help/post/is-afrinic-going-to-become-a-specialized-agency-o… (official statement is at the bottom of this post) In its rejection letter, the Mauritius government mentioned that AFRINIC's request was 1. made on 7th March 2022 2. Based on the "international organisations and conferences (privileges and immunities) act". With regards to the second reason, here's more information: According to the "international organisations and conferences (privileges and immunities) act" (link below), International organization means "specialized agency of the United Nations", and ITU is a "specialized agency of the United Nations". https://attorneygeneral.govmu.org/Documents/Laws%20of%20Mauritius/A-Z%20Act… Lu Heng Chief Executive Officer LARUS Limited Email H.Lu@LARUS.netmailto:a.yan@outsideheaven.com Office tel:+852+29888918 Address A3, 11/F, TML Tower, Tsuen Wan, N.T, Hong Kong SAR Website: LARUS.net This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. ---- On Thu, 27 Oct 2022 14:49:36 +0800 NABEEL YASIN MOHAMMED AMIN <nabeelyasin(a)hotmail.com> wrote --- Hi Lu This is really strange request , so what was the justification or excuse for this letter. Regards Nabeel Yasin From: Lu Heng <mailto:h.lu@larus.net> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2022 1:08 PM To: NABEEL YASIN MOHAMMED AMIN <mailto:nabeelyasin@hotmail.com> Cc: Sander Steffann <mailto:sander@steffann.nl>; Randy Bush <mailto:randy@psg.com>; ripe-list <mailto:ripe-list@ripe.net>; members-discuss <mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [ripe-list] [members-discuss] A frank discussion Hi Nabeel: The NRO send a letter to mauritus goverment request to be specialized agency of United nation and get immunity for RIR leadership without community knowledge, that is issue we discuss here. Lu Heng Chief Executive Officer LARUS Limited Email mailto:H.Lu@LARUS.netmailto:a.yan@outsideheaven.com Office tel:+852+29888918 Address A3, 11/F, TML Tower, Tsuen Wan, N.T, Hong Kong SAR Website: LARUS.net This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. ---- On Wed, 26 Oct 2022 17:46:56 +0800 mailto:nabeelyasin@hotmail.com<mailto:nabeelyasin@hotmail.com> wrote ---- Dear All Is there any a proposal or any political influences that RIR should be controlled by the ITU qor any other intergovernmental agency , or what exactly is being discussed over here ?! Thank you and best regards Nabeel Yasin WhatsApp/Tel : +967 777006885 From: ripe-list <mailto:ripe-list-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Lu Heng <mailto:h.lu@larus.net> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2022 12:11 PM To: Sander Steffann <mailto:sander@steffann.nl> Cc: Randy Bush <mailto:randy@psg.com>; ripe-list <mailto:ripe-list@ripe.net>; members-discuss <mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [ripe-list] [members-discuss] A frank discussion Hi sander: Sending letter request to be specialized agency of United nation is “work with” government? If being specialized agency of United nation is not controlled by inter governmental body I don’t know what is. No, I am not confused here, you probably(intentionally) are. Lu Heng Chief Executive Officer LARUS Limited Email mailto:H.Lu@LARUS.netmailto:a.yan@outsideheaven.com Office tel:+852+29888918 Address A3, 11/F, TML Tower, Tsuen Wan, N.T, Hong Kong SAR Website: LARUS.net This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. ---- On Wed, 26 Oct 2022 17:08:02 +0800 Sander Steffann<mailto:sander@steffann.nl> wrote ---- Hi Lu, So you do support RIR to be ITU and controlled by UN You seem to (intentionally?) confuse “work together with” and “being controlled by”. Please don’t. Cheers, Sander

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A frank discussion
by Lu Heng 28 Oct '22

28 Oct '22

Dear RIPE community and RIPE NCC members: You may be well aware of RIPE NCC management's refusal to acknowledge the serious governance issue in AFRINIC and the fact that the management keeps involving itself closely with governmental bodies, ever since the miscarriage of their NRO letter to make AFRINIC a specialized agency of United Nations. Recently, during the ITU Conference, it is said that the RIPE NCC management team seemed to have approached the American government and European Union government as a means to interfere with the ongoing matters. As someone who has had engaged closely with the community for many years, I believe it is of utmost importance for the community to be aware of the seriousness of the matter, and a frank discussion is more than necessary in the upcoming RIPE meeting. For RIPE NCC to make their case of seems deep interference with government and for me to exchange with the community any views and differences. My dispute with AFRINIC (despite it is sub-judice), is essentially a "policy dispute" between members of RIR and the RIR management. Court pocceding is also part of bottom up community driven process when the dispute can not be resolved amicably. However, NRO's request to make RIR an ITU-like body, and RIPE NCC's apparent consistent engagement with government officials to interfere in the matter, I think it is high time for the community to be aware of, discuss and decide whether such involvement is proper in a community driven, bottom-up registry who has been independent of governmental influences for more than three decades I have submitted an lighting talk for the plenary and got rejected. I have attached the rejection letter here for your perusal. It is disconcerting to me because the matter is of utmost urgency and importance for the community and the RIR system. The purpose of the current letter is to re-state my intention of an open, frank, heart-to-heart discussion with the community. I will appreciate if any working group chair can pick up the subject and do an BoF during the working group sessions. I believe the graveness of the issue requires such a discussion - transparency and accountability are the two core values of this community. Here is the letter I received: Dear Lu Heng, We regret to inform you that your Lightning Talk submission for RIPE 85 titled 'A difficult reality' has not been accepted into the Plenary session. >From the PC's perspective the presentation does not fit the RIPE plenary. If your submission refers to the role of the RIPE NCC, then we suggest the NCC Services WG as the appropriate venue to start this discussion. If you want to have a discussion about the RIPE community as a policy making body, then we feel the RIPE community plenary is the right place to go. Thank you, Franziska Lichtblau on behalf of the Programme Committee My reply: Hi The presentation is about ripe community’s view on current actions taken by NRO and RIPE NCC. The matter is extremely serious and I believe ripe community should be aware. And yes, this is about where boundaries of ripe community policy making and how many people should be aware and participate community. I feel current ripe community is not truly inclusive enough for every internet user aware. I think best we have a frank discussion and inform the community, rather have me go to some channels of communication, and community might feel not informed and asking why. And THIS IS REALLY NOT ABOUT NCC SERVICE. If PC have future questions welcome to send me zoom link to discuss. Lu Heng Chief Executive Officer LARUS Limited Email H.Lu@LARUS.netmailto:a.yan@outsideheaven.com Office tel:+852+29888918 Address A3, 11/F, TML Tower, Tsuen Wan, N.T, Hong Kong SAR Website: LARUS.net This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.

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Non paid sponsor LIR contracts and client escape to another sponsor
by REG ID: pl.ip4isp 27 Oct '22

27 Oct '22

Dear Members, Case: You receive a request to change the sponsor LIR on independent client resources that you maintain by the Sponsor LIR contract. You check, that your client has not paid for the LIR contract. You answer to RIPE NCC, that you will agree to the change, but when the client will pay off the debt. RIPE NCC replies that: a) he does not care that the client has not paid for the contract, b) forcibly performs the transfer without the consent of the current sponsor LIR. As a result, the LIR sponsor is left with a debt, the collection possibilities of which are drastically reduced. For comparison: if you do not pay your annual invoice to RIPE NCC, the LIR SSA will be terminated and the resources deregistered. With no discussion. Does RIPE NCC allow non-paying End Users to migrate with impunity between Sponsor-LIR's? In this way, the customer can freely never pay anyone for the Sponsor-LIR contract. Best regards, -- pl.ip4isp Tomasz Śląski

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Transfers from Ukraine
by Leonid Khorolets 26 Oct '22

26 Oct '22

We are against the initiative to ban all the transfers of IP addresses from Ukraine! We want to have this source of funds to keep our network running and pay salaries! Please note, there are NO CONSENSUS about transfer block in Ukrainian community, and those people on the meeting does not represent a majority of Ukrainian LIRs, they represent only themselves/

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Re: [members-discuss] [ripe-list] A frank discussion
by Lu Heng 26 Oct '22

26 Oct '22

Hi Nabeel:The NRO send a letter to mauritus goverment request to be specialized agency of United nation and get immunity for RIR leadership without community knowledge, that is issue we discuss here.Lu HengChief Executive Officer LARUS LimitedEmail H.Lu(a)LARUS.net Office +852 2988 8918 Address A3, 11/F, TML Tower, Tsuen Wan, N.T, Hong Kong SARWebsite: LARUS.netThis email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.---- On Wed, 26 Oct 2022 17:46:56 +0800 nabeelyasin(a)hotmail.com<nabeelyasin(a)hotmail.com> wrote ---- div.zm_7905025087677121921_parse_-544861052480912171 P { margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0 } Dear All Is there any a proposal or any political influences that RIR should be controlled by the ITU qor any other intergovernmental agency , or what exactly is being discussed over here ?! Thank you and best regards Nabeel Yasin WhatsApp/Tel : +967 777006885 From: ripe-list <ripe-list-bounces(a)ripe.net> on behalf of Lu Heng <h.lu(a)larus.net> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2022 12:11 PM To: Sander Steffann <sander(a)steffann.nl> Cc: Randy Bush <randy(a)psg.com>; ripe-list <ripe-list(a)ripe.net>; members-discuss <members-discuss(a)ripe.net> Subject: Re: [ripe-list] [members-discuss] A frank discussion Hi sander: Sending letter request to be specialized agency of United nation is “work with” government? If being specialized agency of United nation is not controlled by inter governmental body I don’t know what is. No, I am not confused here, you probably(intentionally) are. Lu Heng Chief Executive Officer LARUS Limited Email H.Lu(a)LARUS.net Office +852 2988 8918 Address A3, 11/F, TML Tower, Tsuen Wan, N.T, Hong Kong SAR Website: LARUS.net This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. ---- On Wed, 26 Oct 2022 17:08:02 +0800 Sander Steffann<sander(a)steffann.nl> wrote ---- Hi Lu, So you do support RIR to be ITU and controlled by UN You seem to (intentionally?) confuse “work together with” and “being controlled by”. Please don’t. Cheers, Sander

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Is NRO trying to make RIR into an ITU sister today?
by Lu Heng 06 Oct '22

06 Oct '22

Dear RIPE community, Ondřej Filip and Hans-Peter, In the past few days, I saw what NRS uncovered a letter from the Mauritian Government, in which referring to the law was AFRINIC's request about being an international organization. This same term was also used in an NRO letter that was partly against me; this letter hoped the status of "international organization" will help AFRINIC avoid rule of law. Some community members in this list have asked the question, "what is an international organization?" Hans, so far, has been evasive about the answer in which he only said, and I quote: "this status can mean different things under different jurisdictions." Now the rejection letter from the Mauritius Government referred AFRINIC's request to a specific law, "International Organizations and Conferences (Privileges and Immunities) Act". This law clearly states in its definition that an international organization is a "specialized agency of the United Nations', making it essentially what the ITU is today. This comes as a great shock for me personally because I have been in the Netherlands since I was 17. I started my business in Groningen, a small student city in northern Netherlands, where I learned over the years about the fundamentals of the RIRs, and it was during this time that I heard Rob say on multiple occasions that we are just book-keepers and that the community makes the decisions. My fight with AFRINIC, while it is sub-judice, is essentially a policy dispute that the NRO itself states happens from time to time. I would never imagine in my worst dream, that the entire RIR systems CEO, especially the CEO from RIPE; the one place I learned everything about this community, would rather abandon all thirty years of hard work by the entire community, ask to join the United Nations and be like the ITU, simply to defend AFRINIC's suspended leader's position about their rather ill-advised interpretation of community-made policy. This same leader has also tried to avoid the community at all cost, circumvent the rule of law and do his best to prevent the members from having a fair and open election as pursuant to the bylaws of the organization. He has attempted to have the ATU appoint directors directly though the courts; with his help and advise. He has accused me of hosting child porn without providing any evidence, even though I merely provide IP address to hosters. Furthermore, when asked for the specific IP address of those alleged porn, the same leader refused to provide any actionable information so we can have our customers shut it down. The same leader has been seeing close to terrorist supporters during AFRINIC meeting, the same leader that presented financials so unclear the membership not only voted the financial report down, but also voted to fire the current auditor for the first time in the RIR history. This is also the same leader who has brought 49 lawsuits to the RIR from 8 different parties, including himself, during his short tenure. I just don't understand why the NRO or Hans feels the need to defend such leadership from community scrutiny, to a point you would abandon everything this community has believed in for thirty years. Everything such as that community-driven, bottom-up, approach, but you are instead trying to make the RIR a specialized agency of the United Nations just so such leadership can get away community scrutiny and backlash that is warranted. I have spoken briefly with Ondřej in Malaysia where I put it to him to ask Hans this very important question. However, since he hasn't gotten back to me, hence I am putting the letter here. I know I am not the most popular guy in the room, but I truly believe in the community, and in the bottom-up, community driven process. I believe the process will help the community heal from the influence and history of bad leadership from past corrupted leaders. I hope Hans and the board of the RIPE NCC believe in the same way. Kind regards. Lu The letter from the Mauritius Government rejecting AFRINIC's request: https://bit.ly/3fGrICr The true meaning of an international organization: https://attorneygeneral.govmu.org/Documents/Laws%20of%20Mauritius/A-Z%20Act… Lu Heng Chief Executive Officer LARUS Limited Email H.Lu@LARUS.netmailto:a.yan@outsideheaven.com Office tel:+852+29888918 Address A3, 11/F, TML Tower, Tsuen Wan, N.T, Hong Kong SAR Website: LARUS.net This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.

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RIPE NCC Quarterly Planning Q4 2022
by Fergal Cunningham 27 Sep '22

27 Sep '22

Dear members, We have now published our Q4 2022 plans for our development teams. These are available at: https://www.ripe.net/support/documentation/quarterly-planning Our quarterly planning includes the work we will be carrying out in the next few months in: - RPKI - Learning & Development - RIPE Database - Business Applications, including the LIR Portal, Registry Services and other applications - DNS and K-root - RIPE Atlas - RIPEstat - RIS - Information Technology and Security The goals of publishing our planning are to be transparent about the work we will be carrying out in the coming months, to get your input on those plans, and to foster a dialogue with our members and the community about what you would like to see the RIPE NCC work on going forward. If you have any input on our plans or want to let us know what you would like to see us work on, please let us know. Kind regards, Fergal Cunningham Head of Membership Engagement RIPE NCC

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Positivity
by Sander Steffann 23 Sep '22

23 Sep '22

The last time I spoke up on this mailing list was in anger, and too harsh. I feel that I should give praise where praise is due too. The last two weeks I have been at APNIC in Singapore and ICANN in Malaysia as an NRO NC/ASO AC member, and I have to say that the RIPE NCC, and especially Noelle Starliper, did a wonderful job in organising the flights and hotels for me. Little things like making sure I can check in to the hotel early after a long night flight make all the difference. And of course offering me to fly business class on such a long flight helps too ;) I got to introduce myself to the ICANN board, and had great conversations with Chris Buckridge about the state of the RIR system, amongst the many other people I met. I feel this was a very useful trip for me as an NRO NC member, and many thanks to the RIPE NCC to make this possible. Cheers, Sander

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Clarifications on NRO Letter to Mauritian Government
by Hans Petter Holen 29 Jul '22

29 Jul '22

Dear all, I will respond where I can, although the RIPE NCC cannot speak for AFRINIC, and any statement on behalf of the NRO needs to be made jointly with the other four RIRs. First, I would like to address the concerns about the language used in the NRO letter to the Mauritian government. It was not written in a tone that we would use under ordinary circumstances. The letter could have been worded better in parts, and it obviously led to our message being misconstrued. We take note of this and will do better in this regard. Further, some of you have expressed concerns that this letter was an attempt by the NRO to interfere in the judicial processes of Mauritius. However, this was not the intention. As I said in my previous email, we simply wanted to lend weight to AFRINIC's request and help to ensure its ability to provide services to its members. In no way do we believe it is our place (or the NRO’s for that matter) to influence judicial processes in a sovereign nation. Coming to the issue of “international status” for RIRs, this status can mean different things under different jurisdictions. The RIPE NCC has not requested "international status" from any Dutch or international body. What such status might mean for AFRINIC would be for the Mauritian government to evaluate. For the RIPE NCC, you, our members, are the ultimate governing body, and any potential changes to our legal status would be made in consultation with you. I agree fully with comments that the issues with AFRINIC's governance need to be addressed and I want to reiterate that only the members of AFRINIC and the Internet community in Africa can resolve them. We encourage AFRINIC's members and community to contribute constructively to improve this situation. All our efforts have been guided by the desire to support the stability of the global RIR system, which as Lu correctly points out, is a global, bottom-up, community-driven project. This is how the Internet has been built and, we hope, will continue to be governed. Finally, this list is under moderation and we will continue to ensure that all mails that are put through to the list abide by the code of conduct. Sincerely, Hans Petter Holen Managing Director RIPE NCC

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NRO letter to Mauritian Government
by Sander Steffann 22 Jul '22

22 Jul '22

Hi, I just read the message from the NRO (co-signed by Hans Petter Holen on behalf of the RIPE NCC) to the Mauritian Government: https://www.nro.net/nro-letter-to-mauritius-government/ and I must say I was shocked. The letter is about the lawsuits of Cloud Innovation Ltd (Lu Heng) against AFRINIC. The NRO is urging the government to recognise AFRINIC as an international organisation "that if granted, it might lead to more appropriate outcomes”. So basically the NRO is urging the Mauritian government’s executive branch to intervene in its judicial branch. Asking a government is to violate their separation of powers is NOT OK™. Now don’t get me wrong, I don’t like Lu Heng and the way he does business, but not all his lawsuits are without merit, so this is something for the Mauritian court to decide. The NRO pushing the government to intervene goes against the basis of the democratic system. The letter even does more than urging. It basically threatens/insults Mauritius: """ To successfully operate a continental wide entity such as AFRINIC, the African Internet community deliberately chose to locate its headquarters in Mauritius in order to obtain the benefit of a stable and consistent legal system. [...] It would be very unfortunate for the African regional community if the above situation proves that the designation of Mauritius as the place to locate AFRINIC has been wrong. """ This letter has raised some eyebrows around the world (and as I understand it in Brussels) to say the least. I would like a response from the RIPE NCC and its board on how they have dared to write such a letter. Sincerely, Sander Steffann

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Update on ruling by Supreme Court of Mauritius in favour of Cloud Innovation
by Lu Heng 20 Jul '22

20 Jul '22

Dear RIPE community, The Supreme Court of Mauritius has ruled in favour of Cloud Innovation against AFRINIC's numerous attempts to block access to justice. Specifically the Judge ruled that Cloud Innovation was "not vaxacious" and agreed that Cloud Innovation has every right to protect it's legal position by seeking injunctions against AFRINIC's attempt to block our case. The Judge has ruled that Cloud Innovation's case against AFRINIC may proceed to trial. In light of this judgement, Cloud Innovation have issued a press release which can be find at link below together with the judgement. I hope you will to read both to understand the importance of the consequences of the Judgement. Since the court has ruled that me and my company are not a vaxacious litigant, the accusation of me and my company being vaxacious as stated in the ill-advised NRO letter is considered to be potentially criminal defamation as per Mauritius law. I request that the authors of the RIPE NCC letter, plus those individuals that advised them to write such a letter, to urgently reconsider their position publicly. And if, they ware mislead by someone to sign such letter, it's time to explain before future potential proceedings bought by Mauritius judicatory system. The Judge ruled: "I do not agree that the applicant is, in respect of the application before me, being a vexatious litigant causing prejudice to the respondent. Although it is undeniable that there has been a history of cases lodged by the applicant during the past year, there have been various intervening factors throughout and it cannot be said that the issues which require determination in the present 17 case have already been settled by a court decision, or that to continue with the present proceedings would amount to an abuse of process. " Well in advance of this Judgement, I called on AFRINIC to enter into mediation. My multiple requests were ignored. Mediation could have ensured a private settlement on the issues without the need for a public Judgement. AFRINIC rejected my offer to mediate. Instead, AFRINIC continued to waste a significant amount of member's resources on attempting to deny a legitimate dispute from being heard by an impartial Judge. I am always open to mediation and my door remains open to AFRINIC to discuss and resolve our issues. AFRINIC's attempt to deny access to justice opens up some very serious questions about the behaviour, motivation and judgement of the leadership of AFRINIC that the RIPE community now need to consider carefully. Whilst I am obviously pleased with the Judgement, I take no pleasure in saying that the Judgement shows we should never have even put in this position by AFRINIC and laterally by other individuals potentially in RIPE NCC as well. Their behaviour has caused me and my company significant reputational and financial damage. There is now an understanding in the RIPE community that AFRINIC actions and attitude has also been damaging to themselves and our wider community. Separate to the potential forthcoming legal cases brought by eight different claimants, real change has to be seen to be made now in ARFINIC to ensure that the organisation is fit for purpose and serves the interests of global internet community and not just a few individuals at the top. I urge the community to read both the press release and the judgement to have a better understanding of the situation: https://cloudinnovation.org/press-release5.html https://cloudinnovation.org/attachmentlist/cloud-innovation-ltd-v-african-n… Kind regards Lu

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Re: [members-discuss] Moderation approval timeline
by Fergal Cunningham 19 Jul '22

19 Jul '22

Dear Lu, The current moderation policy involves one designated member of the RIPE NCC staff and one from the Board reviewing emails sent to the mailing list during office hours (at least once per day). Unfortunately, this does introduce the human element. One of our moderators was unavailable for most of yesterday, which meant that mails were moderated early in the day as required by the policy but this was not possible for the rest of the day. Rest assured that all valid emails will eventually find their way to the list. We appreciate your understanding if this takes a little longer than usual. Best regards, Fergal Cunningham Head of Membership Engagement RIPE NCC Hi What is moderation policy currently in this list? I have sent an email to the list but didn't see it appear in achieve. Lu Heng Chief Executive Officer LARUS Limited

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Moderation approval timeline
by Lu Heng 19 Jul '22

19 Jul '22

Hi What is moderation policy currently in this list? I have sent an email to the list but didn't see it appear in achieve. Lu Heng Chief Executive Officer LARUS Limited Email H.Lu@LARUS.netmailto:a.yan@outsideheaven.com Office tel:+852+29888918 Address A3, 11/F, TML Tower, Tsuen Wan, N.T, Hong Kong SAR Website: LARUS.net This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.

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Second attempt in declaring my position
by Sander Steffann 18 Jul '22

18 Jul '22

Hi everybody, My previous version of this email got rejected by RIPE NCC moderation, so let me try again… I have understood that people have interpreted this bit in a way that I didn’t mean: > Now don’t get me wrong, I don’t like Lu Heng and the way he does business, but not all his lawsuits are without merit Let me put that in very clear words: I personally extremely strongly oppose what Lu Heng is doing, his apparent morals and ethics, the way he does business etc. The way he is suing AFRINIC, blocking their bank accounts and stuff like that, just for personal/business benefit, is very much not ok. But… He is also not stupid. He abuses things that are actually wrong in AFRINIC to get what he wants. Just because he’s doing things that I think are very bad doesn’t mean that he is always wrong. Scary: definitely! Bad: definitely! But: the way to solve this is by getting things in order inside AFRINIC and by going through the proper legal channels in Mauritius. This is not something that is up to us, the RIRs or the NRO to fix. This is something for the African legal system and the African community to solve. We do not control their fate. My apologies if anyone thought that I support Lu Heng in this. I very strongly do not. But I do oppose to the way the NRO is getting involved. Cheers, Sander

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RIPE NCC Quarterly Planning Q3 2022
by Fergal Cunningham 29 Jun '22

29 Jun '22

Dear members, We have now published our Q3 2022 plans for our development teams. These are available at: https://www.ripe.net/support/documentation/quarterly-planning Our quarterly planning includes the work we will be carrying out in the next few months in: - RPKI - Learning & Development - RIPE Database - Business Applications, including the LIR Portal, Registry Services and other applications - DNS and K-root - RIPE Atlas - RIPEstat - RIS - Information Technology and Security If you have any input on our plans or want to let us know what you would like to see us work on, please let us know. See the specific plans for details on where to provide input to the relevant teams. Kind regards, Fergal Cunningham Head of Membership Engagement RIPE NCC

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Re: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [news] The RIPE NCC General Meeting May 2022
by Hank Nussbacher 25 May '22

25 May '22

On 20/05/2022 16:30, Hans Petter Holen wrote: > Resolution 3: > "The General Meeting adopts the RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2023." https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/gm/meetings/may-2022/voting-report I would hope that with a 25% voting NO to the charging scheme, that the executive board create a discussion as to why so many LIRs voted against the proposed charging scheme and perhaps in the future break down the charging scheme vote into smaller components rather than an all or nothing vote. Regards, Hank

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Re: [members-discuss] Ukrainian members payments
by Hans Petter Holen 25 May '22

25 May '22

Dear Sergey, members, Below you will find our response to Oleksandr Savchuk's request on behalf of the Ukrainian Internet Society (UIA)[1]. Regards Hans Petter Holen Managing Director RIPE NCC [1] https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss/2022-April/004562.h… ---- Mr Oleksandr Savchuk Chairman of the Ukrainian Internet Association Kyiv, Ukraine 24 May 2022 Re: Request to ‘Zero’ RIPE NCC Membership Fees for Ukrainian Network Operators Dear Mr Savchuk, Thank you for your letter dated 4 April 2022. We would like to first express our solidarity with Ukrainian network operators and our admiration for their efforts to maintain connectivity at such a difficult time. For our part, we will do what we can to support the Ukrainian membership, consistent with our mission to enable stable Internet operations throughout our region. Regarding your request: as you will know, we have informed Ukrainian members that we will not terminate their Standard Service Agreements (SSAs) if they do not pay their 2022 fees on time or are unable to meet certain administrative requirements. At the RIPE NCC General Meeting last week, we discussed support for Ukrainian members (Agenda Point 4: Provision of Undisrupted Services to Members and Community) and explained the RIPE NCC’s current thinking on the matter of invoices, which appears to be generally supported by members. The current Charging Scheme does not allow for a specific group of members to receive a payment exemption. Applying this would require a vote at the General Meeting along with additional legal and administrative overhead. We would also have to align this with the principle that we treat all members equally. The RIPE NCC will therefore continue with an extension of payment obligations for as long as needed. This approach can always be revisited if needed. If the situation in Ukraine changes and it becomes apparent an extension is not enough, we can have this discussion with the membership. Finally, I would like to thank the members from Ukraine who made time to participate in our General Meeting last week. To do so given the current situation underlines how serious a matter this is for your association and the wider community in Ukraine, and we will certainly reciprocate by giving this our highest priority. Sincerely, Hans Petter Holen Managing Director RIPE NCC

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Re: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [news] The RIPE NCC General Meeting May 2022
by Sergey Myasoedov 24 May '22

24 May '22

Dear Hans Petter, Board, It would be good to disclose also the vote weight parameter as well in the voting reports as it was done in the previous GM's report. Compare https://www.bigpulse.com/disclosevotes?code=1637913936wg94ermvZtuw5xuxCG9V and https://www.bigpulse.com/disclosevotes?code=1652356433f9hF532YmSBbBzMYsXAu Thank you. -- Kind regards, Sergey Myasoedov > On 20 May 2022, at 15:30, Hans Petter Holen <hph+announce(a)ripe.net> wrote: > > Dear colleagues, > > The RIPE NCC General Meeting May 2022 took place from 18-20 May 2022. > > A total of 1,379 members cast their votes on three resolutions and in the Executive Board election. Not all members cast votes in all ballots. > > The following resolutions were approved by the General Meeting: > > Resolution 1: > "The General Meeting adopts the RIPE NCC Financial Report 2021." > > Resolution 2: > "The General Meeting discharges the Executive Board with regard to its actions as they appear from the Annual Report 2021 and Financial Report 2021." > > Resolution 3: > "The General Meeting adopts the RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2023." > > Executive Board Election: > > The following two candidates were elected to the RIPE NCC Executive Board: > Ondřej Filip > Remco van Mook > > A full voting report is available at: > https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/gm/meetings/may-2022/voting-report > > Congratulations to Ondřej and Remco on their re-election to the RIPE NCC Executive Board. My appreciation to everyone who contributed to the important discussions and voted at the GM. > > Kind regards, > Hans Petter Holen > Managing Director, RIPE NCC >

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