April 2024 - members-discuss - mailman.ripe.net

Ticket systems on member discuss
by Patrick Velder 10 Apr '24

10 Apr '24

Hi, once again this one very old topic. Since I've posted on this list, I'm prowd owner of 4 new accounts in random LIR's ticket systems. I think it's time to address this issue. Best regards Patrick

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Re: [members-discuss] Charging Scheme 2025
by sdy＠a-n-t.ru 10 Apr '24

10 Apr '24

And again.... It does not matter How much it will be paid this year per IPv4 to RIPE 10E or 0,001E per one IP. We NEED! We MUST to start take money for difficite resource - IPv4 and ASN 16b. First year it can be 1E per /24 and 1 AS. Next it will grow grow grow. So everyone will be need to pay or move to the next versions of protocols! So lets start with NO change in charge, but add some payment for resources to compensate inflation. Last my variant D: Stay payment as last year + 1E per each /24 + 1E per 16b AS > of course, that the fee per IP will change the price in the market. > > if there is no fee and it does not generate any costs then no one moves it. > > it's simple when you pay for something you have to consider whether to pay for the resource or sell it > > > > currently there are more than 15% of completely unused addresses. > > and I suppose that another 10% are addresses which, after cleaning up and paying fees, would be redundant or so insignificant that someone would either lease or sell them. > > > > Which may end up on the exchange which will result in a drop in price and better availability for all who need IPv4 addresses > > > > Translated with DeepL.com (free version) > > > > Best Regard’s / Pozdrawiam > > Gabriel Sulka > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > Firma Handlowo - Usługowa KOMPEX > > 34-400 Nowy Targ ul. Szaflarska 62A > > tel(18) 264-60-55 pn-pt 09:30 - 17:00 sb. 09:30 - 13:00 > > www.kompex.pl ; bok(a)kompex.pl ; kompex(a)nowytarg.net > > > > From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces(a)ripe.net> On Behalf Of Daniel Pearson > Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2024 3:44 PM > To: members-discuss(a)ripe.net > Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Charging Scheme 2025 > > > > IPv4 sells in the private market for anywhere from $40-$50 per address. > > > > When a /24 is worth $10,000~ > > When a /22 is worth $40,000~ > When a /20 is worth $162,000~ > > Do you really think you will motivate someone to give them up by charging 0.1 EUR per address? > > That's just a fantasy. > > > > On 4/10/24 8:34 AM, Mihail Fedorov wrote: > > Hello. > > > > Because it solves both purposes > > > > - some small motivation for unused “hoarded” IP address space to be distributed back to those who suffer from total lack of them - at least a little bit will go back to market. There are still really A LOT of entities who hoard them not for the purpose of need (now or in future, commercial or not), but ONLY because some time ago v4 distribution was not managed properly. This, per my opinion, should be somehow resolved. > > > > - small LIR’s without large clients or subnets should not fund RIPE expensive projects on equal basis with transcontinental corporations. Latter will easily agree on 100x price increase just to knock off anyone else - still not even notice this fee. But existing fee and its increase is more than significant for smaller networks or someone trying to enter market. > > > > What I see in proposed schemes is total lack of choice. Let’s not pretend that increase to 1800, increase 1850 or increase to 1900 is actually a choice. It is not! And what I see in this mailing list is that almost everyone agree with this fact. > > > > My initial proposal remains the same: 0.1 EUR (adjusted to real RIPE financial needs) per v4 address in use. Absolutely flat and fair. It will be eventually distributed up to the IP end user by supply chain and be totally unnoticeable for them. > > > > At least there should be couple of more options in vote if community opinion really counted. Otherwise vote is nonsense, why it is needed at all? > > > > > > > > On 10 Apr 2024, at 16:09, Евгений Удовихин <mailto:eudovihin@gmail.com> <eudovihin(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > At least because large IP holders now have no motivation to release them. The dependence of the contribution on the number of addresses used will give an additional incentive not to keep unnecessary address space. > > > > Ср, 10 апр. 2024 г. в 22:59, Michel Lanners <michel.lanners(a)lu-cix.lu <mailto:michel.lanners@lu-cix.lu> >: > > Dear all, > > > > Why on earth is everybody trying to monetize IPv4, i.e. make RIPE fees dependant on IPv4 ressources? > > > > I completely fail to see why anybody should pay more for HOLDING any number of IPv4 ressources (or other ressources, by the way). > > > > It’s a different story for ressource transfers. So let those selling IPv4 pay a fee for the transfer! > > > > And for the rest let’s stick to a real membership fee: one price irrespective of which services you use or not. The fitness center doesn’t charge you per minute, nor per device you use. It's a flat membership, full stop. Hopefully low enough so it doesn’t create a problem for anybody's bottom line. > > > > Cheers > > > > Michel LANNERS > > CIO at LU-CIX Management G.I.E. > > -- > > <https://www.luxchat.lu/> > > Mail: michel.lanners(a)lu-cix.lu <mailto:michel.lanners@lu-cix.lu> > > Luxchat: @3eb2pdflrq57:01.lu-cix.luxchat.lu <http://01.lu-cix.luxchat.lu/> > > Phone: (+352) 28 99 29 92-81 > > > > LU-CIX Management G.I.E. > > 202, Z.A.E. Wolser F > <https://www.google.com/maps/search/202,+Z.A.E.+Wolser+F?entry=gmail&source=g> > > L-3290 Bettembourg > > lu-cix.lu <https://www.lu-cix.lu/> > > luxchat.lu <https://www.luxchat.lu/> > > luxembourg-internet-days.com <https://luxembourg-internet-days.com/> > > lunog.lu <https://www.lunog.lu/> > > > > _______________________________________________ > members-discuss mailing list > members-discuss(a)ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/eudovihin%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > members-discuss mailing list > <mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> members-discuss(a)ripe.net > <https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss> > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss > Unsubscribe: > <https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/mihail%40fedorov.net> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/mihail%40fedorov.net > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > members-discuss mailing list > members-discuss(a)ripe.net <mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net> > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/daniel%40privatesyst… > > > > _______________________________________________ > members-discuss mailing list > members-discuss(a)ripe.net > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/sdy%40a-n-t.ru ----------------------------- С уважением Сербулов Дмитрий ООО "Альфа Нет Телеком" +7(498)785-8-000 раб. +7(495)940-92-11 доп. +7(925)518-10-69 сот.

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Re: [members-discuss] RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025 Open House: Recording and Slides Available
by Hank Nussbacher 04 Apr '24

04 Apr '24

On 29/03/2024 14:49, Gert Doering wrote: IUCC was the first paying member to RIPE NCC in 1995 (since we realized the importance of supporting such a fledgling organization) and we have paid for our resources for the past 29 years. See attached (page 3 of 4 pages - if anyone wants to see the full 4 page document - drop me an email off-list). Regards, Hank > >> Hi, >> >> On Thu, Mar 28, 2024 at 07:04:30PM +0100, Andrea Borghi wrote: >>> My humble proposal is to class basing on how many additional >>> resources a >>> company have beyond the basics that was valid at the time of joining >>> Ripe. >> >> ... and possibly how old these resources are... we got our blocks in >> 1995/1996, and they are considered "large" by today's standards. Back >> then, it was what you got as a fast-growing small ISP... >> >> So if we really go for something based on allocation size, adding a >> yearly depreciation factor in would make this "more fair" (... we've >> been paying our share for the last 29(!) years already). >> >> Gert Doering >> -- NetMaster >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> members-discuss mailing list >> members-discuss(a)ripe.net >> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss >> Unsubscribe: >> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/hank%40interall.co.il

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Re: [members-discuss] RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025 Open House: Recording and Slides Available
by ivaylo 02 Apr '24

02 Apr '24

1 LIR = 1 Vote If you want 2 Votes, always can register other company as LIR. And you again will pay 1500 euro and have same resource limits (before next step up = +1500): 1 x /20 IPV4 block 1 x /29 IPV6 block 8 ASNs If we have more than 1 Vote for a LIR, based on the fee (fee: 4500, have 3 Votes), that will lead to monopol, mastodont companies will do what they want will vote and accept decisions only for their interests. And I can not call it democracy nor fair for all. Ivaylo Josifov VarnaIX / Varteh LTD +359 52 969393 Varna, Bulgaria On Fri, 29 Mar 2024, Evgeniy Brodskiy wrote: > Confidential/????????????? > > Hi Ivaylo, just to clarify, if some LIR pay for 2 chank of resource does it mean it has 2 votes ?? > If contribution is not equal why votes should be equal ?? > > ----------------- > Best regards, > > Evgeniy Brodskiy > Kyivstar | Network engineer > Kyiv, Ukraine > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces(a)ripe.net> On Behalf Of ivaylo > Sent: Friday, March 29, 2024 4:54 PM > To: members-discuss(a)ripe.net > Subject: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025 Open House: Recording and Slides Available > > [????? ?????????? ????? ???????????? ??????? ????????? ?????????? ????? ??? ivaylo(a)bglans.net. ??????????, ???? ?? ???????: https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification ] > > Every Year we talking same things and every year the result is zero... > > Clearly it is not fair company which holds /22 IPV4 /32 IPV6 and few ASN to pay same amount as a company with /8 IPV4 /20 IPV6 and tens (if not > hundreds) ASNs. > > Clearly charging scheme based on the holded resource not accepting. Well then why not we think about hard coded resource limits for each member: > > Annual fee of 1500 Euro per LIR gives : > 1 x /20 Block of IPV4 (sum can be 16 x /24 or 4 x /22) > 1 x /29 Block of IPV6 (sum can be 8 x /32...) > 8 x ASNs > > If a LIR pass one or more of the above parameters the applied Annual fee > +1500 Euro, so such LIR can hold and manage: > > 2 x /20 Block of IPV4 (sum) > 2 x /29 Block of IPV6 (sum) > 16 x ASN > > If again pass one or more of these +1500 Euro and so on. > > > RIPE to send emails to each member with calculation for its next year fee, and with ask to free resources and return back to RIPE. Newly freed resources to be spread across members who not reach the first target (or at least to can ask for new resources without additional fee): > > 1 x /20 Block of IPV4 (sum can be 16 x /24 or 4 x /22 e.t.c.) > 1 x /29 Block of IPV6 (sum can be 8 x /32... e.t.c) > 8 x ASNs > > To legacy resource holders to be given 1 year, to find sponsoring LIR, and their resources to be counted in the LIR account sum resources. Or to be asked to become LIRs, with 500 euro one pay joining fee. > > > > This way RIPE can predict and calculate its bugdet much better. > > > > Ivaylo Josifov > VarnaIX / Varteh LTD > +359 52 969393 > Varna, Bulgaria > > > On Fri, 29 Mar 2024, Firma KOMPEX wrote: > >> Hi >> >> it would be fair if the resource was not valued as a resource only as >> the number of IPs IP should be the basis for settlement - it is >> actually a cost there is a shortage of addresses, and some people have >> a lot of them unused and do not return them. >> If they paid for the addresses and it was a cost for them, they would >> wonder whether they really need them or whether it would be better to >> return some of them. >> >> Pozdrawiam >> Gabriel Sulka >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------- >> Firma Handlowo - Us?ugowa KOMPEX >> 34-400 Nowy Targ ul. Szaflarska 62A >> tel(18) 264-60-55 pn-pt 09:30 - 17:00 sb. 09:30 - 13:00 >> http://www.k/ >> ompex.pl%2F&data=05%7C02%7CEvgeniy.Brodskiy%40kyivstar.net%7C9925aa0ba >> c9844e2301e08dc500035da%7Cf8f9bd573bba4300a6ec3b8e70a30986%7C0%7C0%7C6 >> 38473209301289732%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoi >> V2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C60000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=vRog6oP4 >> cUl4jHHJwJtNmslrzbOIHlONn0zSTZyVOW8%3D&reserved=0 ; bok(a)kompex.pl ; >> kompex(a)nowytarg.net >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces(a)ripe.net> On Behalf Of >> Gert Doering >> Sent: Friday, March 29, 2024 12:49 PM >> To: domain(a)wkey.it >> Cc: members-discuss(a)ripe.net >> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2025 Open House: >> Recording and Slides Available >> >> Hi, >> >> On Thu, Mar 28, 2024 at 07:04:30PM +0100, Andrea Borghi wrote: >>> My humble proposal is to class basing on how many additional >>> resources a company have beyond the basics that was valid at the time >>> of joining >> Ripe. >> >> ... and possibly how old these resources are... we got our blocks in >> 1995/1996, and they are considered "large" by today's standards. Back >> then, it was what you got as a fast-growing small ISP... >> >> So if we really go for something based on allocation size, adding a >> yearly depreciation factor in would make this "more fair" (... we've >> been paying our share for the last 29(!) years already). >> >> Gert Doering >> -- NetMaster >> -- >> have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? >> >> SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard, Michael >> Emmer, >> Ingo Lalla, Karin Schuler >> Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann >> D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) >> Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> members-discuss mailing list >> members-discuss(a)ripe.net >> https://list/ >> s.ripe.net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fmembers-discuss&data=05%7C02%7CEvgen >> iy.Brodskiy%40kyivstar.net%7C9925aa0bac9844e2301e08dc500035da%7Cf8f9bd >> 573bba4300a6ec3b8e70a30986%7C0%7C0%7C638473209301298466%7CUnknown%7CTW >> FpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6 >> Mn0%3D%7C60000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=zGN5MtVkwMRKjIKh8U8zUxrmFFkQrZJ4eiuEv%2B >> RKwu8%3D&reserved=0 >> Unsubscribe: >> https://list/ >> s.ripe.net%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fmembers-discuss%2Fivaylo%2540bglans.n >> et&data=05%7C02%7CEvgeniy.Brodskiy%40kyivstar.net%7C9925aa0bac9844e230 >> 1e08dc500035da%7Cf8f9bd573bba4300a6ec3b8e70a30986%7C0%7C0%7C6384732093 >> 01303571%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiL >> CJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C60000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=p4kryouKS1u%2F%2F >> mNi3sDc3friXMlh5MIiUrR8nVxR5m0%3D&reserved=0 >> > > _______________________________________________ > members-discuss mailing list > members-discuss(a)ripe.net > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss > Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/registry%40kyivstar.… >

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RIPE NCC Quarterly Planning Q2 2024
by Adonis Stergiopoulos 02 Apr '24

02 Apr '24

Dear colleagues, We have now published the Q2 2024 quarterly plans for our development teams: https://www.ripe.net/support/documentation/quarterly-planning <https://www.ripe.net/support/documentation/quarterly-planning> Our plans include the work that will be carried out in the next few months and give you the opportunity to comment on those plans and suggest items that the RIPE NCC should be working on going forward. The plans cover the following areas: - Learning & Development - RIPE Database - Business Applications, including the LIR Portal, Registry Services and other applications. - DNS and K-root - RIPE Atlas - RIPEstat - Resource Public Key Infrastructure (RPKI) - Routing Information Service (RIS) - Information Security, Risk, and Compliance We have also made some changes to our reporting process. First, following our website refresh, we made it easier to identify the completed work items of previous quarters. You can check this by clicking on the ‘Archived Plans’ sub-page for each area. Second, we have decided to discontinue reporting on our ‘Information Technology (IT)’ area as we could only provide limited details, and the information was mostly relevant to internal teams. The previous IT plans will remain active on our website until they expire as part of our archiving process. If you have any questions or any input on these plans, please reach out to us. Kind regards, Adonis Stergiopoulos Senior Marketing & Communications Officer RIPE NCC

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