February 2016 - members-discuss

audit idea .... improve database quality
by Matthias Šubik 18 Feb '16

18 Feb '16

Hello, to add to my previous idea, to add the subscribed e-Mail address to the footer, I would suggest all LIRs, which obviously don’t know they are a LIR, and how to unsubscribe to be placed on the audit short list. When I was in an RIPE audit, I was shocked about the basic level of the questions asked, but now I know why. There must be hundreds of LIRs without any(more) personnel with a RIPE course. How can this LIRs deliver up to date WHOIS information, including abuse/cert/irt contact? This is no witch hunt, I can recommend to any LIR personell to take a RIPE NCC training course. This can explain the inner working of the RIPE NCC, the voting process, the database, and exactly why we have this mailing list. Additionally I assume none of this LIRs has any IPv6 plans. They might not even know there is a need for change. As their allocation is working for them (like internal LIRs in large cooperations). all the best Matthias

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Re: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [news] RIPE NCC Members and Multiple LIR Accounts - Please Discuss
by Riccardo Gori 18 Feb '16

18 Feb '16

Hi all, Ni Nigel, Sorry for the late reply I tried to post my opinion days ago but there was an issue with subcription on the list. I think 2015-01 did the most. I would tune that with audit and I would forbit transfert of never annouced address space. Short answer for busy or lazy readers ;-) Here you are my opinion: 1. Is the activity of members opening additional LIR accounts a problem that must be prevented? Yes. It has been abused in a speculative way. During late 2014 and all 2015 some legal entities used it to obtain address space from /8 and immediately sell it to market. There was a loophole in the policy. This is not more possible thanks to 2015-01 discussed and approved on address-policy-wg. There was a plenty of abusing even before september 2012. Wall of shame is there. No one is shamed though. I want you to notice that if you analyze the ripe allocation list you can find similar behavior happened even before when policies were completely different Single legal entinty with multiple LIR account requested and obtained allocation greater as /18 or /16 for each LIR account they owned. Some of the allocation are still there and it's easy to check with date allocation, some maybe were transferred and are not easy to track. 2. If this activity is a problem that must be prevented, what action should the RIPE NCC take to attempt its prevention? We should attempt prevention but it's not easy. But we can consider some options: - Stop allowing opening multiple LIR account for one legal entity. Easy but irrelevant, will reach but it's easy to cheat already said from many of us. - Add more disincentive with a 5 years holing time before for all transfer. Very difficul to reach rough consensus many LIR are holding a lot of unused address space. They will expose their castle to Ipv6 adoption rate... - Returing allocated and unused: Mostly impossible. Anyway I would like to see what would happen to stockpiled IPs if memership fee were IP/monthly based. May result in cheaper transferts, cheaper leases, more LIRs doing their work, more internet. Very interesting. - Audit We had a large surplus in 2015 instead of redestributing it (this made even higher the surplus of speculators) we can consider to use it for audit. In this case we can allow multiple LIR per legal entity beacause it would been ever easier to indentify when the behavior becomes strange. If they have customers they will have assignements, IPs will be in use, IPs will be announced, database is consistent I don't see any abuse here. It something is wrong RIPE will terminate the LIR for violations or other reason as in SSA and resources will be back to the available pool. - Forbit transfert of "never annouced" address space. Maybe difficult to reach consensum but I don't like to see in IPv4 Transfer Listin Service best offers for "never annouced address space". This is sure comes from stockpiling or quick buck speculators. I think 2015-01 did the most. I would tune that with audit and I would forbit transfert of never annouced address space. kind regards Riccardo -- Ing. Riccardo Gori e-mail:rgori@wirem.net WIREM Fiber Revolution Net-IT s.r.l. Via Cesare Montanari, 2 47521 Cesena (FC) Tel +39 0547 1955485 Fax +39 0547 1950285 -------------------------------------------------------------------- CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This message and its attachments are addressed solely to the persons above and may contain confidential information. If you have received the message in error, be informed that any use of the content hereof is prohibited. Please return it immediately to the sender and delete the message. Should you have any questions, please contact us by re- plying toinfo(a)wirem.net Thank you WIREM - Net-IT s.r.l.Via Cesare Montanari, 2 - 47521 Cesena (FC) --------------------------------------------------------------------

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About unsubscribing
by Jérôme Nicolle 18 Feb '16

18 Feb '16

Hi folks, I'm currently going through all the recent posts on this mailing list, that have been moved to a dedicated subfolder on my mailbox thanks to sieve (RFC 5228) rules. We're having a fundamental discussion here. It's all about, as members of a NFP organisation, we're trying to set rules to behave as members of the Internet community. Asking for beeing spared of the current threads is resignating for your LIR status, and memebership frome RIPE NCC. It implies asking for the return of your numbered assignement to the available pool, too. Thanks for that. You can't seriously be an ISP and ask to avoid the current conversation. Either you relenquish every assignement,and your LIR status, or take part in the building process of the next generation of our comminuty's policies. So, once again, please relenquish your assigned IP space or take part in the current process. Or ask to be spared and GTFO. Best regards, -- Jérôme Nicolle +33 6 19 31 27 14

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Moderation Enabled on Members-Discuss
by Serge Radovcic 17 Feb '16

17 Feb '16

Dear colleagues, We’ve noticed that the large amount of emails asking to unsubscribe has been detracting from the discussion on this list. We have therefore turned on moderation and will not be letting through any more emails until tomorrow at the earliest. If you would like to unsubscribe, you can do this through the LIR Portal. Log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ Click on “Edit my LIR details” under “Subscribed Mailing Lists” and from here you can add or remove email addresses. ***It is important to note: any subscription changes made in the LIR Portal may take up to 24 hours to be processed. If you have already updated this information, the change will happen in this timeframe*** If you have any questions, please email <ncc(a)ripe.net>. Once this issue is resolved, we hope we can return to the important member discussion on the multiple LIR issue. We trust that this interruption won’t have too much of an impact on the community’s discussion, as it is not immediately time sensitive. Kind regards Serge Radovcic Chief Communications Officer RIPE NCC

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Please remove me from discussion list
by Thierry Durieux - Neo-One 17 Feb '16

17 Feb '16

Please remove me from discussion list Salutations. -- Thierry Durieux Directeur Technique Téléphone: 05 67 34 67 90 | Support: 09 70 75 37 40 8 chemin de la terrasse - BP 45122, 31512 Toulouse Cedex [cid:image001.png@01CF96D9.2F09BA30]

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remove from disscusion email list
by Omar Dallah 17 Feb '16

17 Feb '16

Dears, Please remove my email from the discussion email list. BTW I removed my email by LIR portal but still receiving the discussion emails. Please help. Regards, Omar Dallah From: members-discuss [mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net] On Behalf Of Matthijs van Seventer Sent: 17 February 2016 16:58 To: BOGDAN Orasanu; 'Markus'; members-discuss(a)ripe.net; Claudiu Foleanu Subject: Re: [members-discuss] [comms] [ncc-announce] [news] RIPE NCC Members and Multiple Hello all, LIR’s that don’t use IPv4 adresses should be able to return them. The only parties that will win otherwise are brokers with ridiculous prices. Matthijs Van: members-discuss [mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net] Namens BOGDAN Orasanu Verzonden: woensdag 17 februari 2016 15:53 Aan: 'Markus' <universe(a)truemetal.org>; members-discuss(a)ripe.net; Claudiu Foleanu <claudiu.foleanu(a)thorpanel.com> Onderwerp: Re: [members-discuss] [comms] [ncc-announce] [news] RIPE NCC Members and Multiple Hi there, I administer such a small ISP, that had to return somehow by force half of the allocated IP addreses. This way of doing bussiness should not be encouraged by RIPE, i instead of RIPE will ask a huge LIR that managed milions of IP addresses how come they were able to transfer maybe half of them ? They were only reserved and not used ? Or eliberated of usage thtought some means in order to capitalise ? LIR should be able to manage respurces only toward end user and not among LIRs exept and ISP that want to manage their own address space and not for trade. The resource belongs to public not to lirs. Best regards, Bogdan Orasanu Senior Network Administrator SC Expert Net SRL Sent from my Sony Xperia™ smartphone ---- Claudiu Foleanu wrote ---- Hi Markus, The lir send`s a document to the company in wich says "As per end user contract signed you have 3 months to stop using resources" and after this the resources are sold. It happend to a lot (and i do mean a lot) of companies in Romania. I think that Romania is number one in number of resources (ipv4 address space) sold. And as i said in my previous email most of them have been in use. I have a /22 witch is in IRAN now. Sold to an Iranian telecom company by the lir. I have not received any previous notification. Our callcenter just started getting calls about internet not working. We did not imagine that someone will do something like this. We addressed this issue with ripe-ncc at that time and the reply was find a new lir we cannot help in the matter. We should ask a report for tickets created from Romania regarding address space from Romania with the same issue. Best regards, Claudiu Foleanu -----Original Message----- From: members-discuss [mailto:members-discuss-bounces@ripe.net] On Behalf Of Markus Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 4:37 PM To: members-discuss(a)ripe.net; Claudiu Foleanu Subject: Re: [members-discuss] [comms] [ncc-announce] [news] RIPE NCC Members and Multiple Hi Claudiu, Am 17.02.2016 um 15:26 schrieb Claudiu Foleanu: > No it`s not bad to sell ip`s. It`s bad that the people are abusing the > system. It`s bad that small companies that had a /22 a /24 etc.. have > the resources allocated taken away, and sold for profit. [...] can you elaborate on how these small companies have resources taken away from them? I can't imagine how that works. Who forces these companies to give their resources up? I've noticed that a company called "IPv4 Management SRL" (www.ip.ro) from your country is selling a lot of smaller IPv4 blocks like all the time. It seems like they are the predominant seller in the RIPE market judging from <https://www.ripe.net/manage-ips-and-asns/resource-transfers-and-mergers/tra nsfers/ipv4/ipv4-transfer-statistics> Do they have something to do with what you described? Cheers Markus ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.

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Removing from the Mailinglist
by Patrick Velder 17 Feb '16

17 Feb '16

Hi Could you please stop sending your removal requests to all subscribers of this list? For some reasons, the LIR Portal exists. Thank you very much. Regards Patrick

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remove
by Zurab Bukhnikashvili 17 Feb '16

17 Feb '16

Please remove me from discussion list Best regards, Zurab Bukhnikashvili Network Administrator Georgian Research and Educational Networking Association 10 Chovelidze Str. 0108, Tbilisi, Georgia, Phone: + 995 32 2250590 Fax: + 995 32 2912952 <http://www.grena.ge/> www.grena.ge

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How to unsubscribe
by IT 17 Feb '16

17 Feb '16

To unsubscribe: mailto:members-discuss-request@ripe.net?subject=unsubscribe (unless RIPE hacked mailman) Met vriendelijke groet / With kind regards, Maarten Dammers Netwerk Expert Roberto Ubeda Platforms IT(a)jscingenium.com<mailto:IT@jscingenium.com> JSC Ingenium Condesa de Venadito 1, 28027 Madrid (Spain). Office 902 095 045 Fax 902 095 046 JSC Ingenium web page<http://www.jscingenium.com/> JSC Ingenium company blog<http://blog.jscingenium.com/>

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Remove me
by Nizamuddin Khawaja 17 Feb '16

17 Feb '16

Please remove me from this list

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