IMPORTANT: RIPE75 is SPECIAL (call for presentations)
Dear IPv6 Enthusiasts, We are building the agenda for the next meeting, so if you'd like to present at IPv6 WG sessions at RIPE75 or have some ideas/suggestions for the agenda - please contact ipv6-wg-chairs@ripe.net. IMPORTANT: There is smth unusual about RIPE75 you should be aware of, especially if you are planning to present. Dubai's Department of Tourism and Commerce Marketing (DCTM) have special requirements for events. The more detailed information could be found below in the text format (and the .docx is attached for your reference), but the short summary is: 1) a final list of all speakers at RIPE 75 must be provided to the DCTM one month before the start of the meeting; 2) all speakers (including remote presenters) need to provide a colour copy of their passport and a short bio (min 2000 chars). What does it means for us? Obviously we need to finalize the agenda much earlier than usual. Also those requirements make it very hard (almost impossible) to add new talks at the very last moment or deal with speakers change. Therefore if you are considering to present but still hesitating it's better to let us (chairs) know and submit a talk tentatively. Sorry about hassle and we hope to see as many amazing talks submitted as usual, despite all those irritating inconvenience! ;) Additional info: ---- Department of Commerce and Tourism Marketing (DTCM) Permit General information The application of a UAE law applies to all events held in Dubai including the RIPE 75 meeting. Following this local law, all speakers and attendees must provide additional personal information to the DTCM in advance of the meeting. While the impact will be minimal for attendees, the requirement to have speakers’ passports and other information weeks ahead of the meeting will require the RIPE Meeting agenda to be finalised much earlier than usual, and with less room for last-minute agenda changes. What are the requirements of the law? 1. All RIPE 75 attendees (including RIPE NCC staff) will need to provide the following information: Full name Country of residence Date of birth Nationality Telephone number (mobile or landline) Email address This information will be collected through our usual registration form and will be passed to the event agency that acts on behalf of the government. The event agency will use attendees’ information to produce barcodes for each attendee. The meeting badge will include the barcode and barcode number. 2. All speakers (including remote speakers) will need to email the following information to meeting@ripe.net one month before the start of the meeting. We will forward this information to the DTCM: Full name, title A colour copy of their passport A copy of their Emirates ID (if a UAE resident) Profile/bio for the speaker (at least 200 characters) Mobile number Email According to the law, a speaker will be rejected if any false information is submitted and a new application must be submitted. What does this mean for the WG Chairs and PC? The agendas for all WG sessions should be finalised one month before RIPE 75 begins, so that all presenters have time to submit their information/passports. The WG Chairs will need to make people aware of this deadline in their calls for presentations and when soliciting presentations for the meeting. We suggest that panels be avoided as much as possible, as it might be challenging logistically to ensure that speakers send in their information in time. Another option (“loophole”) would be to have the panel participants contribute as “audience members” from the floor. Who counts as a speaker? Essentially, this includes anyone who is presenting on stage - plenary and WG presenters, panel participants, WG Chairs and PC members and community members who are chairing or moderating sessions. Not included in this definition is attendees who are speaking at the microphones during Q&A sessions. Why does the government require this information? How will the data be handled? The stated reason is to facilitate greater efficiency for event organisers and government entities that are responsible for granting permits. The data is used to conduct analysis, market research and examine industry trends. The data is not shared with other event organisers or ticket resellers/registration companies. We have also been told that the real reason is for security (to avoid anti-government or anti-religious speakers). The information on attendees is also used to get an accurate sense of how many attendees were at the meeting. We do not know how long they will keep the information supplied or how it will be handled. Telephone numbers/email addresses will not be checked. What are the penalties for non-compliance? A fee is paid to the government for each individual case of incorrect data submitted. The attendee is liable for this, not the RIPE NCC. However, the DTCM has said if we show good faith, they will be understanding. Regarding the speakers, the fine is 5-15,000 AUD in the case of non-compliance. The RIPE NCC would be liable for this. Are any people exempted from these requirements? There are some options for a limited number of people to be exempted, but this is intended for high-level government attendees only. -- SY, Jen Linkova aka Furry on behalf of RIPE IPv6 WG Chairs.
On 07/04/2017 12:55 AM, Jen Linkova wrote:
Dear IPv6 Enthusiasts,
We are building the agenda for the next meeting, so if you'd like to present at IPv6 WG sessions at RIPE75 or have some ideas/suggestions for the agenda - please contact ipv6-wg-chairs@ripe.net.
IMPORTANT: There is smth unusual about RIPE75 you should be aware of, especially if you are planning to present. Dubai's Department of Tourism and Commerce Marketing (DCTM) have special requirements for events. The more detailed information could be found below in the text format (and the .docx is attached for your reference), but the short summary is: 1) a final list of all speakers at RIPE 75 must be provided to the DCTM one month before the start of the meeting; 2) all speakers (including remote presenters) need to provide a colour copy of their passport and a short bio (min 2000 chars).
Just out of curiosity: Why should a remote presenter provide a passport? That seems to me like a weird requirement to me, and possibly even hard to enforce (unless there's someone watching a video stream and checking if they have a copy of the passport for that person?). And, if the person is not traveling anyway, he/she might not even have a passport in the first place. (yes, I understand you're just the messenger :-) ) -- Fernando Gont SI6 Networks e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492
On Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 8:04 AM, Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com> wrote: [WG chairs hat OFF]
Just out of curiosity: Why should a remote presenter provide a passport?
Whatever I say will be just a guess, how can I speak for the UAE government? My guess would be that they want to make sure that remote presenters are not using pseudonyms. What if I submit a remote presentation as Fernando Gont and start advocating inserting Ipv6 extension headers on the fly, for example? ;)))
That seems to me like a weird requirement to me, and possibly even hard to enforce (unless there's someone watching a video stream and checking if they have a copy of the passport for that person?). And, if the person is not traveling anyway, he/she might not even have a passport in the first place.
I'd expect that some other form of government-issued ID would do - but again, I'm speculating.
(yes, I understand you're just the messenger :-) )
Thanks, highly appreciated ;) -- SY, Jen Linkova aka Furry
On 07/04/2017 04:28 AM, Jen Linkova wrote:
On Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 8:04 AM, Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com> wrote:
[WG chairs hat OFF]
Just out of curiosity: Why should a remote presenter provide a passport?
Whatever I say will be just a guess, how can I speak for the UAE government? My guess would be that they want to make sure that remote presenters are not using pseudonyms.
Well.. how can they possibly know that the identity is real? :-) Will they compare the guy on video with the pic on the passport? And if the guy on the video doesn't look like the guy on the passport? Ask the organizer to bloc the presentation real time? Sanction the organizer afterwards? Besides, if the remote presenter doesn't have a passport..what? National IDs are virtually impossible even to check even in the slightest way...
What if I submit a remote presentation as Fernando Gont and start advocating inserting Ipv6 extension headers on the fly, for example? ;)))
:-))
That seems to me like a weird requirement to me, and possibly even hard to enforce (unless there's someone watching a video stream and checking if they have a copy of the passport for that person?). And, if the person is not traveling anyway, he/she might not even have a passport in the first place.
I'd expect that some other form of government-issued ID would do - but again, I'm speculating.
Not that long ago, we could use the same ID we got when 16-years-old for our whole life... If I'd provide that one, you'd probably better of fail assuming that it was a fake I-D. :-)
(yes, I understand you're just the messenger :-) )
Thanks, highly appreciated ;)
;-) Cheers, -- Fernando Gont SI6 Networks e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492
Dne 03.07.17 v 23:55 Jen Linkova napsal(a):
We have also been told that the real reason is for security (to avoid anti-government or anti-religious speakers).
Ah, this is obviously some strange use of the word security that I wasn't previously aware of. Regards, Zbyněk
On 04/07/2017 08:32, Zbyněk Pospíchal wrote:
Dne 03.07.17 v 23:55 Jen Linkova napsal(a):
We have also been told that the real reason is for security (to avoid anti-government or anti-religious speakers).
Ah, this is obviously some strange use of the word security that I wasn't previously aware of.
Well, apparently possession of passport (or any other document) makes you non-anti-government *and* non-anti-religious ;) Sometimes logic gets tragically lost ;) Cheers, Jan
On Tue, Jul 04, 2017 at 11:33:45AM +0200, Jan Zorz - Go6 wrote:
Well, apparently possession of passport (or any other document) makes you non-anti-government *and* non-anti-religious ;)
Sometimes logic gets tragically lost ;)
Nope, it's entirely logical. The docs have to be presented 1 month in advance of the event, they are then run through security service vetting, and if anyone isn't liked the organisers will be told they cannot speak. Not old enough to remember when we had this shit in Europe? rgds, Sascha Luck
On 2017-07-04 15:10, Sascha Luck [ml] wrote:
On Tue, Jul 04, 2017 at 11:33:45AM +0200, Jan Zorz - Go6 wrote:
Well, apparently possession of passport (or any other document) makes you non-anti-government *and* non-anti-religious ;)
Sometimes logic gets tragically lost ;)
Nope, it's entirely logical. The docs have to be presented 1 month in advance of the event, they are then run through security service vetting, and if anyone isn't liked the organisers will be told they cannot speak. Not old enough to remember when we had this shit in Europe?
rgds, Sascha Luck
On Tue, Jul 04, 2017 at 07:55:01AM +1000, Jen Linkova wrote:
2) all speakers (including remote presenters) need to provide a colour copy of their passport and a short bio (min 2000 chars).
This would be illegal for Germans to do. Except for some very specific exceptions and under several severe restrictions involving redacting out any data on the ID not strictly required for identification, Germans are not allowed to make photocopies of their passports or personal IDs, or let others make those. Why are RIPE meetings held at places where active participation in form of talks require people from certain service area countries do something illegal, otherwise excluding them? Was this requirement known to the organizers before deciding on venue country? Best regards, Daniel -- CLUE-RIPE -- Jabber: dr@cluenet.de -- dr@IRCnet -- PGP: 0xA85C8AA0
Hi folks, first off: I am not a lawyer; this is just what I as a layman found out about this. Daniel Roesen <dr@cluenet.de> writes:
On Tue, Jul 04, 2017 at 07:55:01AM +1000, Jen Linkova wrote:
2) all speakers (including remote presenters) need to provide a colour copy of their passport and a short bio (min 2000 chars).
This would be illegal for Germans to do. Except for some very specific exceptions and under several severe restrictions involving redacting out any data on the ID not strictly required for identification, Germans are not allowed to make photocopies of their passports or personal IDs, or let others make those.
Are you sure this applies to passports? I know it's the rule about national ID cards (Personalausweis), but the main reason for that is that it contains things like your current home address and whatnot that you don't actually find in a passport. And no matter what I think about the competence levels of your bureaucracy in general, I'd be kind of surprised if they didn't realize that around the world passports *do* get copied. The important issue however with German passports is Par. 18(3) of the PassG. According to this the RIPE NCC might not be allowed to pass the passport copy on to the DTCM, but I'm not sure if this applies because it is passed on to a (foreign) public service.
Was this requirement known to the organizers before deciding on venue country?
If I understand correctly it is one of these ancient rules that haven't been actually applied for an eternity until recently---way after the decision to go to Dubay---someone decided to actually apply it. Until then to my knowledge (ask Hans Petter or whoever) it wasn't even known to the NCC that this sort of requirement existed. And from the discussions on the working group chair list alone I guess the hassle this causes to the NCC, the WG chairs and whoever els is substantial enough to cause quite some headaches. Cheers, Benedikt -- Business Grade IPv6 Consulting, Training, Projects Stepladder IT Training+Consulting GmbH Benedikt Stockebrand Fichardstr. 38, 60322 Frankfurt/Main Dipl.-Inform./Geschäftsführer HRB 94202, Registergericht Frankfurt/M contact@stepladder-it.com http://www.stepladder-it.com/ +49 (0) 69 - 247 512 362 http://www.benedikt-stockebrand.de/ +49 (0) 177 - 41 73 985 BIVBlog---Benedikt's IT Video Blog: http://www.stepladder-it.com/bivblog/ Bitte kein Spam, keine unaufgeforderten Werbeanrufe, keine telefonischen Umfragen. Anrufe werden ggf. zu rechtlichen Zwecken aufgezeichnet. No spam, no unsolicited sales calls, no telephone surveys, please. Calls may be recorded for legal purposes.
Hi, RIPE NCC itself need you to provide them with a certified passport copy if you refuse to send a scan of it by email, other forms of IDs (like drivers license) is not enough for them when they run DD procedure on your LIR. It seems that these ancient rules may exist everywhere... Cheers, Arash On Fri, Jul 21, 2017 at 4:19 PM, Benedikt Stockebrand <bs@stepladder-it.com> wrote:
Hi folks,
first off: I am not a lawyer; this is just what I as a layman found out about this.
Daniel Roesen <dr@cluenet.de> writes:
On Tue, Jul 04, 2017 at 07:55:01AM +1000, Jen Linkova wrote:
2) all speakers (including remote presenters) need to provide a colour copy of their passport and a short bio (min 2000 chars).
This would be illegal for Germans to do. Except for some very specific exceptions and under several severe restrictions involving redacting out any data on the ID not strictly required for identification, Germans are not allowed to make photocopies of their passports or personal IDs, or let others make those.
Are you sure this applies to passports? I know it's the rule about national ID cards (Personalausweis), but the main reason for that is that it contains things like your current home address and whatnot that you don't actually find in a passport.
And no matter what I think about the competence levels of your bureaucracy in general, I'd be kind of surprised if they didn't realize that around the world passports *do* get copied.
The important issue however with German passports is Par. 18(3) of the PassG. According to this the RIPE NCC might not be allowed to pass the passport copy on to the DTCM, but I'm not sure if this applies because it is passed on to a (foreign) public service.
Was this requirement known to the organizers before deciding on venue country?
If I understand correctly it is one of these ancient rules that haven't been actually applied for an eternity until recently---way after the decision to go to Dubay---someone decided to actually apply it.
Until then to my knowledge (ask Hans Petter or whoever) it wasn't even known to the NCC that this sort of requirement existed.
And from the discussions on the working group chair list alone I guess the hassle this causes to the NCC, the WG chairs and whoever els is substantial enough to cause quite some headaches.
Cheers,
Benedikt
-- Business Grade IPv6 Consulting, Training, Projects
Stepladder IT Training+Consulting GmbH Benedikt Stockebrand Fichardstr. 38, 60322 Frankfurt/Main Dipl.-Inform./Geschäftsführer HRB 94202, Registergericht Frankfurt/M contact@stepladder-it.com http://www.stepladder-it.com/ +49 (0) 69 - 247 512 362 http://www.benedikt-stockebrand.de/ +49 (0) 177 - 41 73 985
BIVBlog---Benedikt's IT Video Blog: http://www.stepladder-it.com/bivblog/
Bitte kein Spam, keine unaufgeforderten Werbeanrufe, keine telefonischen Umfragen. Anrufe werden ggf. zu rechtlichen Zwecken aufgezeichnet. No spam, no unsolicited sales calls, no telephone surveys, please. Calls may be recorded for legal purposes.
On Tue, 18 Jul 2017 at 02:34, Daniel Roesen <dr@cluenet.de> wrote:
Why are RIPE meetings held at places where active participation in form of talks require people from certain service area countries do something illegal, otherwise excluding them?
Idealy I would like to avoid that. But then it would also be very difficult, if not impossible, to find a location where everybody from the whole region can participate. For us "north west" european the Schengen area is easy, but not necessarily for our colleagues countries further east. This time we made the decision to hold the meeting in Dubai to make it easier for our community members in this part of our region to participate.
Was this requirement known to the organizers before deciding on venue country?
This requirement became known to the RIPE NCC and me after the decision had been made. Rest assured that these kind of extraordinary requirements will be taken into consideration when selecting future meeting venues. Hans Petter Holen RIPE Chair
participants (11)
-
Arash Naderpour -
Benedikt Stockebrand -
Daniel Roesen -
Fernando Gont -
Hans Petter Holen -
Jan Zorz - Go6 -
Jen Linkova -
Marten Vijn -
Sascha Luck [ml] -
Wilfried Wöber -
Zbyněk Pospíchal