Dear DB-WG Members As agreed during DB-WG session at RIPE69 Meeting in London on 06.11.2014, the WG Chair Selection procedure is executed at yearly intervals. This means that it is about time to run it this year. This is the call for interested parties. Interested parties have 2 weeks to make their interest known on this mailing list. All members of the community are encourage to make a discussion and express their approval or otherwise of the presented candidates. After two weeks the chairs will declare consensus. Since there is a limit of 3 co-chairs, if at the end of the discussion phase there will be more than 3 proposed co-chairs then a call will be made for any of the candidates to withdraw. If there still will be more than 3 candidates then names will be put into a hat and the first three names drawn from the hat will take on the role of chairs for the next 12 months. As you may know, Job Snijders decided at the RIPE73, last week, to step down. Moreover, Nigel Titley declare that when a new chair is found, he would like to step down as well. This means, that the only reason Nigel is staying on, is not to leave the WG with only one chair. Taking this opportunity, I would like to express my interest in being co-chair for another term. All the best, Piotr -- gucio -> Piotr Strzyżewski E-mail: Piotr.Strzyzewski@polsl.pl
Dear DB-WG Members, I would like to express my interest in serving as a co-chair for the DB-WG. Kind regards, William Sylvester Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 31, 2016, at 1:45 PM, Piotr Strzyzewski <Piotr.Strzyzewski@polsl.pl> wrote:
Dear DB-WG Members
As agreed during DB-WG session at RIPE69 Meeting in London on 06.11.2014, the WG Chair Selection procedure is executed at yearly intervals. This means that it is about time to run it this year.
This is the call for interested parties. Interested parties have 2 weeks to make their interest known on this mailing list. All members of the community are encourage to make a discussion and express their approval or otherwise of the presented candidates.
After two weeks the chairs will declare consensus.
Since there is a limit of 3 co-chairs, if at the end of the discussion phase there will be more than 3 proposed co-chairs then a call will be made for any of the candidates to withdraw.
If there still will be more than 3 candidates then names will be put into a hat and the first three names drawn from the hat will take on the role of chairs for the next 12 months.
As you may know, Job Snijders decided at the RIPE73, last week, to step down. Moreover, Nigel Titley declare that when a new chair is found, he would like to step down as well. This means, that the only reason Nigel is staying on, is not to leave the WG with only one chair.
Taking this opportunity, I would like to express my interest in being co-chair for another term.
All the best, Piotr
-- gucio -> Piotr Strzyżewski E-mail: Piotr.Strzyzewski@polsl.pl
I support William for this. He may blame me later ... +1 ;-) Erik Bais
Op 31 okt. 2016 om 21:32 heeft William Sylvester <william.sylvester@addrex.net> het volgende geschreven:
Dear DB-WG Members,
I would like to express my interest in serving as a co-chair for the DB-WG.
Kind regards, William Sylvester
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 31, 2016, at 1:45 PM, Piotr Strzyzewski <Piotr.Strzyzewski@polsl.pl> wrote:
Dear DB-WG Members
As agreed during DB-WG session at RIPE69 Meeting in London on 06.11.2014, the WG Chair Selection procedure is executed at yearly intervals. This means that it is about time to run it this year.
This is the call for interested parties. Interested parties have 2 weeks to make their interest known on this mailing list. All members of the community are encourage to make a discussion and express their approval or otherwise of the presented candidates.
After two weeks the chairs will declare consensus.
Since there is a limit of 3 co-chairs, if at the end of the discussion phase there will be more than 3 proposed co-chairs then a call will be made for any of the candidates to withdraw.
If there still will be more than 3 candidates then names will be put into a hat and the first three names drawn from the hat will take on the role of chairs for the next 12 months.
As you may know, Job Snijders decided at the RIPE73, last week, to step down. Moreover, Nigel Titley declare that when a new chair is found, he would like to step down as well. This means, that the only reason Nigel is staying on, is not to leave the WG with only one chair.
Taking this opportunity, I would like to express my interest in being co-chair for another term.
All the best, Piotr
-- gucio -> Piotr Strzyżewski E-mail: Piotr.Strzyzewski@polsl.pl
I wholeheartedly support this ... -----Original Message----- From: db-wg [mailto:db-wg-bounces@ripe.net] On Behalf Of William Sylvester Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 9:32 PM To: Piotr Strzyzewski <Piotr.Strzyzewski@polsl.pl>; db-wg@ripe.net Subject: Re: [db-wg] WG Chairs Selection Dear DB-WG Members, I would like to express my interest in serving as a co-chair for the DB-WG. Kind regards, William Sylvester Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 31, 2016, at 1:45 PM, Piotr Strzyzewski <Piotr.Strzyzewski@polsl.pl> wrote:
Dear DB-WG Members
As agreed during DB-WG session at RIPE69 Meeting in London on 06.11.2014, the WG Chair Selection procedure is executed at yearly intervals. This means that it is about time to run it this year.
This is the call for interested parties. Interested parties have 2 weeks to make their interest known on this mailing list. All members of the community are encourage to make a discussion and express their approval or otherwise of the presented candidates.
After two weeks the chairs will declare consensus.
Since there is a limit of 3 co-chairs, if at the end of the discussion phase there will be more than 3 proposed co-chairs then a call will be made for any of the candidates to withdraw.
If there still will be more than 3 candidates then names will be put into a hat and the first three names drawn from the hat will take on the role of chairs for the next 12 months.
As you may know, Job Snijders decided at the RIPE73, last week, to step down. Moreover, Nigel Titley declare that when a new chair is found, he would like to step down as well. This means, that the only reason Nigel is staying on, is not to leave the WG with only one chair.
Taking this opportunity, I would like to express my interest in being co-chair for another term.
All the best, Piotr
-- gucio -> Piotr Strzyżewski E-mail: Piotr.Strzyzewski@polsl.pl
On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 08:32:17PM +0000, William Sylvester wrote:
I would like to express my interest in serving as a co-chair for the DB-WG.
I support William's candidature. Piotr -- gucio -> Piotr Strzyżewski E-mail: Piotr.Strzyzewski@polsl.pl
Dear William, On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 08:32:17PM +0000, William Sylvester wrote:
Dear DB-WG Members,
I would like to express my interest in serving as a co-chair for the DB-WG.
Can you elaborate further on your motivation why you want to volunteer as chair of DB-WG? What role does the database play in your professional work? Kind regards, Job
Job, Thank you for your questions, I use the database daily in my professional work as our customers depend heavily upon the accuracy and usability of the database. We use the database for writing data to the database and also for reading the data in the database. I am very involved with customer education, object maintenance, and interacting with the many interfaces provided for the database. I have volunteered to help the working group because we need to be looking to the future of the database. As a co-chair, I would like to work to increase the working group member participation, work with my co-chairs to identify consensus for the many initiatives, and through consensus provide the necessary features to all the users of the database. The database is a global system used around the world. As a working group we have many items to discuss. Items like data validation, object access control, authentication, usability, and concerns from law enforcement. Finding consensus on these items has a great impact on the Internet as a whole. I would like to leverage my 20+ years of experience in Internet directory services to help the working group address our changing Internet environment. Best regards, William On Nov 1, 2016, at 8:32 AM, Job Snijders <job@instituut.net<mailto:job@instituut.net>> wrote: Dear William, On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 08:32:17PM +0000, William Sylvester wrote: Dear DB-WG Members, I would like to express my interest in serving as a co-chair for the DB-WG. Can you elaborate further on your motivation why you want to volunteer as chair of DB-WG? What role does the database play in your professional work? Kind regards, Job
Dear DB-WG Members, My name is David Hilario. I would like to present myself as a candidate for the DB-WG co-chair. Some of you have been working with me when I was part of the RIPE NCC, I am now working for Larus Cloud Services. The RIPE Database, being one of the core elements of RIPE, is an incredibly important tool and the DB WG carries it for the benefit of the whole community. I would be honored to be given the chance and opportunity to continue the work being done here on the RIPE Database with the support of the community. My involvement in with RIPE Database from the RIPE NCC side, gave me a deep knowledge of its history and usage, I believe it will enable me to now serve the community to the best of its interest. Kind Regards, David Hilario Hide original message
On Oct 31, 2016, at 1:45 PM, Piotr Strzyzewski <Piotr.Strzyzewski@polsl.pl> wrote:
Dear DB-WG Members
As agreed during DB-WG session at RIPE69 Meeting in London on 06.11.2014, the WG Chair Selection procedure is executed at yearly intervals. This means that it is about time to run it this year.
This is the call for interested parties. Interested parties have 2 weeks to make their interest known on this mailing list. All members of the community are encourage to make a discussion and express their approval or otherwise of the presented candidates.
After two weeks the chairs will declare consensus.
Since there is a limit of 3 co-chairs, if at the end of the discussion phase there will be more than 3 proposed co-chairs then a call will be made for any of the candidates to withdraw.
If there still will be more than 3 candidates then names will be put into a hat and the first three names drawn from the hat will take on the role of chairs for the next 12 months.
As you may know, Job Snijders decided at the RIPE73, last week, to step down. Moreover, Nigel Titley declare that when a new chair is found, he would like to step down as well. This means, that the only reason Nigel is staying on, is not to leave the WG with only one chair.
Taking this opportunity, I would like to express my interest in being co-chair for another term.
All the best, Piotr
-- gucio -> Piotr Strzyżewski E-mail: Piotr.Strzyzewski@polsl.pl
Dear David, On Tue, Nov 01, 2016 at 12:10:00PM +0000, fransossen@yahoo.com wrote:
I would like to present myself as a candidate for the DB-WG co-chair.
Some of you have been working with me when I was part of the RIPE NCC, I am now working for Larus Cloud Services.
The RIPE Database, being one of the core elements of RIPE, is an incredibly important tool and the DB WG carries it for the benefit of the whole community.
I would be honored to be given the chance and opportunity to continue the work being done here on the RIPE Database with the support of the community.
My involvement in with RIPE Database from the RIPE NCC side, gave me a deep knowledge of its history and usage, I believe it will enable me to now serve the community to the best of its interest.
Can you elaborate further on your motivation why you want to volunteer as chair of the DB-WG? What role does the database play in your professional work? Kind regards, Job
Hi Job,
Can you elaborate further on your motivation why you want to volunteer as chair of the DB-WG? What role does the database play in your professional work?
Thanks for the questions. I left the NCC a little over a year ago and I am now going to be working with the RIPE Database again as part of a new job, mainly simple contacts and network registration. When I first started using the RIPE Database, it was an open Database where users could change almost any data and break any policies. It was confusing for the users and generating a lot of work for the RIPE NCC staff. Many new users were confused as to why they were able to make changes that were not allowed, many experienced users were having "bad script days" and making changes that then required the intervention of the RIPE NCC to fix. While working for the RIPE NCC I was involved in creating the sets of business rules that prevents the deletion or modification of data considered "maintained" by the RIPE NCC. That greatly improved the overall data quality and lowered the amount of time spent by the RIPE NCC in restoring information and having to to contact the users and also improved the user experience at the same time. Many hours were spent in testing new releases to test new functionalities and discovering what would eventually break the expected behavior of the RIPE Database. I would like to continue with that and help in further enhancing the usability of the RIPE Database, I know how it works and how to not break it fundamentally when implementing changes to its behavior. I am not a coder, my views and use of the RIPE Database is one from a user perspective only, based on the available public tools only. I like to investigate how to achieve the intended goals of the RIPE Database, registration of networks and contacts while adhering to the RIPE policies, all this in the less cumbersome way possible. That experience should be as painless as possible for all users, basic users and power users alike. Any changes should always be analysed with pros and cons to see what will break if implemented, and how to then circumvent this and ensure continuity of expected functionalities. Cheers, David Hilario
Hi David,
Can you elaborate further on your motivation why you want to volunteer as chair of the DB-WG? What role does the database play in your professional work?
Thanks for the questions.
I left the NCC a little over a year ago and I am now going to be working with the RIPE Database again as part of a new job, mainly simple contacts and network registration. When I first started using the RIPE Database, it was an open Database where users could change almost any data and break any policies. It was confusing for the users and generating a lot of work for the RIPE NCC staff.
Many new users were confused as to why they were able to make changes that were not allowed, many experienced users were having "bad script days" and making changes that then required the intervention of the RIPE NCC to fix.
While working for the RIPE NCC I was involved in creating the sets of business rules that prevents the deletion or modification of data considered "maintained" by the RIPE NCC.
That greatly improved the overall data quality and lowered the amount of time spent by the RIPE NCC in restoring information and having to to contact the users and also improved the user experience at the same time.
Many hours were spent in testing new releases to test new functionalities and discovering what would eventually break the expected behavior of the RIPE Database.
I would like to continue with that and help in further enhancing the usability of the RIPE Database, I know how it works and how to not break it fundamentally when implementing changes to its behavior. I am not a coder, my views and use of the RIPE Database is one from a user perspective only, based on the available public tools only.
I like to investigate how to achieve the intended goals of the RIPE Database, registration of networks and contacts while adhering to the RIPE policies, all this in the less cumbersome way possible. That experience should be as painless as possible for all users, basic users and power users alike.
Any changes should always be analysed with pros and cons to see what will break if implemented, and how to then circumvent this and ensure continuity of expected functionalities.
Sounds good to me :) +1 for David Cheers, Sander
Hi, I know David personally from when we used to be colleagues at the NCC, some years ago. I am very happy to see him joining the db-wg and wanting to help. On 11/4/16 4:18 PM, Sander Steffann wrote:
Hi David,
Can you elaborate further on your motivation why you want to volunteer as chair of the DB-WG? What role does the database play in your professional work? Thanks for the questions.
I left the NCC a little over a year ago and I am now going to be working with the RIPE Database again as part of a new job, mainly simple contacts and network registration. When I first started using the RIPE Database, it was an open Database where users could change almost any data and break any policies. It was confusing for the users and generating a lot of work for the RIPE NCC staff.
Many new users were confused as to why they were able to make changes that were not allowed, many experienced users were having "bad script days" and making changes that then required the intervention of the RIPE NCC to fix.
While working for the RIPE NCC I was involved in creating the sets of business rules that prevents the deletion or modification of data considered "maintained" by the RIPE NCC.
That greatly improved the overall data quality and lowered the amount of time spent by the RIPE NCC in restoring information and having to to contact the users and also improved the user experience at the same time.
Many hours were spent in testing new releases to test new functionalities and discovering what would eventually break the expected behavior of the RIPE Database.
I would like to continue with that and help in further enhancing the usability of the RIPE Database, I know how it works and how to not break it fundamentally when implementing changes to its behavior. I am not a coder, my views and use of the RIPE Database is one from a user perspective only, based on the available public tools only.
I like to investigate how to achieve the intended goals of the RIPE Database, registration of networks and contacts while adhering to the RIPE policies, all this in the less cumbersome way possible. That experience should be as painless as possible for all users, basic users and power users alike.
Any changes should always be analysed with pros and cons to see what will break if implemented, and how to then circumvent this and ensure continuity of expected functionalities. Sounds good to me :) +1 for David A big +1 from me as well.
Cheers, Sander
cheers, elvis
Dear working group, I fully support Piotr, William & David to be the new team of chairs. I find in the below answers very encouraging signs that William Sylvester and David Hilario will be good co-chairs, I thank them for stepping forward as volunteers. I think the three of them present a good, diverse outlook on the RIPE database and its constituents; not only with solid "behind-the-scenes" experience, but also the much needed real end-user perspective on things. Furthermore I'll emphasizse that Piotr, William & David are members of our community in good standing. One of their common traits that comes to mind first is a willingness to help, to listen to the community. I seek in DB-WG's next leadership not only a clear view on how the database works and its potential, but also the ability to act as a bridge between different-minded people. A continuation of the consensus-based, bottom-up model is crucial to the database's future. Kind regards, Job
Can you elaborate further on your motivation why you want to volunteer as chair of the DB-WG? What role does the database play in your professional work?
On Fri, Nov 04, 2016 at 03:31:34PM +0000, William Sylvester wrote:
Thank you for your questions, I use the database daily in my professional work as our customers depend heavily upon the accuracy and usability of the database. We use the database for writing data to the database and also for reading the data in the database. I am very involved with customer education, object maintenance, and interacting with the many interfaces provided for the database. I have volunteered to help the working group because we need to be looking to the future of the database. As a co-chair, I would like to work to increase the working group member participation, work with my co-chairs to identify consensus for the many initiatives, and through consensus provide the necessary features to all the users of the database. The database is a global system used around the world. As a working group we have many items to discuss. Items like data validation, object access control, authentication, usability, and concerns from law enforcement. Finding consensus on these items has a great impact on the Internet as a whole. I would like to leverage my 20+ years of experience in Internet directory services to help the working group address our changing Internet environment. Best regards, William
On Fri, Nov 04, 2016 at 10:18:36AM +0000, fransossen@yahoo.com wrote:
Thanks for the questions.
I left the NCC a little over a year ago and I am now going to be working with the RIPE Database again as part of a new job, mainly simple contacts and network registration. When I first started using the RIPE Database, it was an open Database where users could change almost any data and break any policies. It was confusing for the users and generating a lot of work for the RIPE NCC staff.
Many new users were confused as to why they were able to make changes that were not allowed, many experienced users were having "bad script days" and making changes that then required the intervention of the RIPE NCC to fix.
While working for the RIPE NCC I was involved in creating the sets of business rules that prevents the deletion or modification of data considered "maintained" by the RIPE NCC.
That greatly improved the overall data quality and lowered the amount of time spent by the RIPE NCC in restoring information and having to to contact the users and also improved the user experience at the same time.
Many hours were spent in testing new releases to test new functionalities and discovering what would eventually break the expected behavior of the RIPE Database.
I would like to continue with that and help in further enhancing the usability of the RIPE Database, I know how it works and how to not break it fundamentally when implementing changes to its behavior. I am not a coder, my views and use of the RIPE Database is one from a user perspective only, based on the available public tools only.
I like to investigate how to achieve the intended goals of the RIPE Database, registration of networks and contacts while adhering to the RIPE policies, all this in the less cumbersome way possible. That experience should be as painless as possible for all users, basic users and power users alike.
Any changes should always be analysed with pros and cons to see what will break if implemented, and how to then circumvent this and ensure continuity of expected functionalities.
Cheers, David Hilario
Hi Job Are you announcing the result or is this just your endorsement? Because it reads like the result.. cheers denis On 05/11/2016 13:55, Job Snijders wrote:
Dear working group,
I fully support Piotr, William & David to be the new team of chairs.
I find in the below answers very encouraging signs that William Sylvester and David Hilario will be good co-chairs, I thank them for stepping forward as volunteers.
I think the three of them present a good, diverse outlook on the RIPE database and its constituents; not only with solid "behind-the-scenes" experience, but also the much needed real end-user perspective on things.
Furthermore I'll emphasizse that Piotr, William & David are members of our community in good standing. One of their common traits that comes to mind first is a willingness to help, to listen to the community.
I seek in DB-WG's next leadership not only a clear view on how the database works and its potential, but also the ability to act as a bridge between different-minded people. A continuation of the consensus-based, bottom-up model is crucial to the database's future.
Kind regards,
Job
Can you elaborate further on your motivation why you want to volunteer as chair of the DB-WG? What role does the database play in your professional work?
On Fri, Nov 04, 2016 at 03:31:34PM +0000, William Sylvester wrote:
Thank you for your questions, I use the database daily in my professional work as our customers depend heavily upon the accuracy and usability of the database. We use the database for writing data to the database and also for reading the data in the database. I am very involved with customer education, object maintenance, and interacting with the many interfaces provided for the database. I have volunteered to help the working group because we need to be looking to the future of the database. As a co-chair, I would like to work to increase the working group member participation, work with my co-chairs to identify consensus for the many initiatives, and through consensus provide the necessary features to all the users of the database. The database is a global system used around the world. As a working group we have many items to discuss. Items like data validation, object access control, authentication, usability, and concerns from law enforcement. Finding consensus on these items has a great impact on the Internet as a whole. I would like to leverage my 20+ years of experience in Internet directory services to help the working group address our changing Internet environment. Best regards, William
On Fri, Nov 04, 2016 at 10:18:36AM +0000, fransossen@yahoo.com wrote:
Thanks for the questions.
I left the NCC a little over a year ago and I am now going to be working with the RIPE Database again as part of a new job, mainly simple contacts and network registration. When I first started using the RIPE Database, it was an open Database where users could change almost any data and break any policies. It was confusing for the users and generating a lot of work for the RIPE NCC staff.
Many new users were confused as to why they were able to make changes that were not allowed, many experienced users were having "bad script days" and making changes that then required the intervention of the RIPE NCC to fix.
While working for the RIPE NCC I was involved in creating the sets of business rules that prevents the deletion or modification of data considered "maintained" by the RIPE NCC.
That greatly improved the overall data quality and lowered the amount of time spent by the RIPE NCC in restoring information and having to to contact the users and also improved the user experience at the same time.
Many hours were spent in testing new releases to test new functionalities and discovering what would eventually break the expected behavior of the RIPE Database.
I would like to continue with that and help in further enhancing the usability of the RIPE Database, I know how it works and how to not break it fundamentally when implementing changes to its behavior. I am not a coder, my views and use of the RIPE Database is one from a user perspective only, based on the available public tools only.
I like to investigate how to achieve the intended goals of the RIPE Database, registration of networks and contacts while adhering to the RIPE policies, all this in the less cumbersome way possible. That experience should be as painless as possible for all users, basic users and power users alike.
Any changes should always be analysed with pros and cons to see what will break if implemented, and how to then circumvent this and ensure continuity of expected functionalities.
Cheers, David Hilario
Hi Denis, This is expressing my approval. See Item 3 of the Chair Selection Process: https://www.ripe.net/participate/ripe/wg/db/database-wg-chair-selection-proc... Regards, Job On Sat, Nov 05, 2016 at 05:55:31PM +0100, denis wrote:
Hi Job
Are you announcing the result or is this just your endorsement? Because it reads like the result..
cheers denis
On 05/11/2016 13:55, Job Snijders wrote:
Dear working group,
I fully support Piotr, William & David to be the new team of chairs.
I find in the below answers very encouraging signs that William Sylvester and David Hilario will be good co-chairs, I thank them for stepping forward as volunteers.
I think the three of them present a good, diverse outlook on the RIPE database and its constituents; not only with solid "behind-the-scenes" experience, but also the much needed real end-user perspective on things.
Furthermore I'll emphasizse that Piotr, William & David are members of our community in good standing. One of their common traits that comes to mind first is a willingness to help, to listen to the community.
I seek in DB-WG's next leadership not only a clear view on how the database works and its potential, but also the ability to act as a bridge between different-minded people. A continuation of the consensus-based, bottom-up model is crucial to the database's future.
Kind regards,
Job
Can you elaborate further on your motivation why you want to volunteer as chair of the DB-WG? What role does the database play in your professional work?
On Fri, Nov 04, 2016 at 03:31:34PM +0000, William Sylvester wrote:
Thank you for your questions, I use the database daily in my professional work as our customers depend heavily upon the accuracy and usability of the database. We use the database for writing data to the database and also for reading the data in the database. I am very involved with customer education, object maintenance, and interacting with the many interfaces provided for the database. I have volunteered to help the working group because we need to be looking to the future of the database. As a co-chair, I would like to work to increase the working group member participation, work with my co-chairs to identify consensus for the many initiatives, and through consensus provide the necessary features to all the users of the database. The database is a global system used around the world. As a working group we have many items to discuss. Items like data validation, object access control, authentication, usability, and concerns from law enforcement. Finding consensus on these items has a great impact on the Internet as a whole. I would like to leverage my 20+ years of experience in Internet directory services to help the working group address our changing Internet environment. Best regards, William
On Fri, Nov 04, 2016 at 10:18:36AM +0000, fransossen@yahoo.com wrote:
Thanks for the questions.
I left the NCC a little over a year ago and I am now going to be working with the RIPE Database again as part of a new job, mainly simple contacts and network registration. When I first started using the RIPE Database, it was an open Database where users could change almost any data and break any policies. It was confusing for the users and generating a lot of work for the RIPE NCC staff.
Many new users were confused as to why they were able to make changes that were not allowed, many experienced users were having "bad script days" and making changes that then required the intervention of the RIPE NCC to fix.
While working for the RIPE NCC I was involved in creating the sets of business rules that prevents the deletion or modification of data considered "maintained" by the RIPE NCC.
That greatly improved the overall data quality and lowered the amount of time spent by the RIPE NCC in restoring information and having to to contact the users and also improved the user experience at the same time.
Many hours were spent in testing new releases to test new functionalities and discovering what would eventually break the expected behavior of the RIPE Database.
I would like to continue with that and help in further enhancing the usability of the RIPE Database, I know how it works and how to not break it fundamentally when implementing changes to its behavior. I am not a coder, my views and use of the RIPE Database is one from a user perspective only, based on the available public tools only.
I like to investigate how to achieve the intended goals of the RIPE Database, registration of networks and contacts while adhering to the RIPE policies, all this in the less cumbersome way possible. That experience should be as painless as possible for all users, basic users and power users alike.
Any changes should always be analysed with pros and cons to see what will break if implemented, and how to then circumvent this and ensure continuity of expected functionalities.
Cheers, David Hilario
Dear DB-WG members I would like to put myself forward as a candidate for the vacant positions as a co-chair of the RIPE DB-WG. Many of you know me (for better or worse) but I will still elaborate on my relevant experience and motivation. I am a physics graduate (Leeds 1977) and software technology post graduate (Liverpool 1998) and started in the IT business in 1978. I started working for the RIPE NCC in May 2001 as a software developer in the C language working in the RIPE Database department. The date is important as I started a week after the current design of the database was put into production. I have worked on, with, around, inside this RIPE Database for the whole of it's productive life. I worked on a 60% re-write of the C code software in 2004 and, as the Database Business Analyst, wrote the specifications and test cases for the whole system during the complete re-write in java in (about) 2012. I completely re-wrote the RIPE Database documentation in 2014. I was the lead software engineer in setting up the Afrinic Database and I modified and merged the ARIN and RIPE data and set up the first instance of the Afrinic Database contents. I have continued to maintain an active interest in the RIPE Database and the RIPE community since leaving the RIPE NCC in 2015. Although I was labeled as an engineer and then analyst I have always taken a holistic view of the database. I have been involved in every aspect of the RIPE Database technology, life cycle, design, development, testing, maintenance, operation, policy, legal, documentation, training, first and second line support, planning, analysis, statistics, DB-WG liaison, other RIPE NCC departments support, RIPE Meeting presentations, RIPE Labs articles, brainstorming future ideas. One particularly relevant responsibility was to keep track of open issues, make sure they didn't fall off the table and encourage discussions on the DB-WG mailing lists until decisions were made. That was where being an analyst with OCD was very useful. Detail is my middle name. I had this responsibility for several years. My overall knowledge of, and passion for, the whole RIPE Database is very extensive and this last point about tracking issues is an important skill as a co-chair. I have always supported the RIPE community and believe I can offer a good service to the community in this role as one of the co-chairs of the DB-WG. cheers denis From: Piotr Strzyzewski <Piotr.Strzyzewski@polsl.pl> To: db-wg@ripe.net Sent: Monday, 31 October 2016, 18:44 Subject: [db-wg] WG Chairs Selection Dear DB-WG Members As agreed during DB-WG session at RIPE69 Meeting in London on 06.11.2014, the WG Chair Selection procedure is executed at yearly intervals. This means that it is about time to run it this year. This is the call for interested parties. Interested parties have 2 weeks to make their interest known on this mailing list. All members of the community are encourage to make a discussion and express their approval or otherwise of the presented candidates. After two weeks the chairs will declare consensus. Since there is a limit of 3 co-chairs, if at the end of the discussion phase there will be more than 3 proposed co-chairs then a call will be made for any of the candidates to withdraw. If there still will be more than 3 candidates then names will be put into a hat and the first three names drawn from the hat will take on the role of chairs for the next 12 months. As you may know, Job Snijders decided at the RIPE73, last week, to step down. Moreover, Nigel Titley declare that when a new chair is found, he would like to step down as well. This means, that the only reason Nigel is staying on, is not to leave the WG with only one chair. Taking this opportunity, I would like to express my interest in being co-chair for another term. All the best, Piotr -- gucio -> Piotr Strzyżewski E-mail: Piotr.Strzyzewski@polsl.pl
Hi Denis, What role does the database play in your professional work? Kind regards, Job On Fri, Nov 04, 2016 at 01:31:51AM +0000, ripedenis@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
Dear DB-WG members
I would like to put myself forward as a candidate for the vacant positions as a co-chair of the RIPE DB-WG. Many of you know me (for better or worse) but I will still elaborate on my relevant experience and motivation.
I am a physics graduate (Leeds 1977) and software technology post graduate (Liverpool 1998) and started in the IT business in 1978. I started working for the RIPE NCC in May 2001 as a software developer in the C language working in the RIPE Database department. The date is important as I started a week after the current design of the database was put into production. I have worked on, with, around, inside this RIPE Database for the whole of it's productive life. I worked on a 60% re-write of the C code software in 2004 and, as the Database Business Analyst, wrote the specifications and test cases for the whole system during the complete re-write in java in (about) 2012. I completely re-wrote the RIPE Database documentation in 2014. I was the lead software engineer in setting up the Afrinic Database and I modified and merged the ARIN and RIPE data and set up the first instance of the Afrinic Database contents. I have continued to maintain an active interest in the RIPE Database and the RIPE community since leaving the RIPE NCC in 2015.
Although I was labeled as an engineer and then analyst I have always taken a holistic view of the database. I have been involved in every aspect of the RIPE Database technology, life cycle, design, development, testing, maintenance, operation, policy, legal, documentation, training, first and second line support, planning, analysis, statistics, DB-WG liaison, other RIPE NCC departments support, RIPE Meeting presentations, RIPE Labs articles, brainstorming future ideas. One particularly relevant responsibility was to keep track of open issues, make sure they didn't fall off the table and encourage discussions on the DB-WG mailing lists until decisions were made. That was where being an analyst with OCD was very useful. Detail is my middle name. I had this responsibility for several years.
My overall knowledge of, and passion for, the whole RIPE Database is very extensive and this last point about tracking issues is an important skill as a co-chair. I have always supported the RIPE community and believe I can offer a good service to the community in this role as one of the co-chairs of the DB-WG.
cheers denis
From: Piotr Strzyzewski <Piotr.Strzyzewski@polsl.pl> To: db-wg@ripe.net Sent: Monday, 31 October 2016, 18:44 Subject: [db-wg] WG Chairs Selection
Dear DB-WG Members
As agreed during DB-WG session at RIPE69 Meeting in London on 06.11.2014, the WG Chair Selection procedure is executed at yearly intervals. This means that it is about time to run it this year.
This is the call for interested parties. Interested parties have 2 weeks to make their interest known on this mailing list. All members of the community are encourage to make a discussion and express their approval or otherwise of the presented candidates.
After two weeks the chairs will declare consensus.
Since there is a limit of 3 co-chairs, if at the end of the discussion phase there will be more than 3 proposed co-chairs then a call will be made for any of the candidates to withdraw.
If there still will be more than 3 candidates then names will be put into a hat and the first three names drawn from the hat will take on the role of chairs for the next 12 months.
As you may know, Job Snijders decided at the RIPE73, last week, to step down. Moreover, Nigel Titley declare that when a new chair is found, he would like to step down as well. This means, that the only reason Nigel is staying on, is not to leave the WG with only one chair.
Taking this opportunity, I would like to express my interest in being co-chair for another term.
All the best, Piotr
-- gucio -> Piotr Strzyżewski E-mail: Piotr.Strzyzewski@polsl.pl
What role does the database play in your professional work?
is this repeated question trying to elicit conflict of interest? and could the current co-chairs also answer it? :)
Hi, On Fri, Nov 04, 2016 at 06:16:46PM +0900, Randy Bush wrote:
What role does the database play in your professional work?
is this repeated question trying to elicit conflict of interest?
I find it a valid question. If someone is heavily using the RIPE DB in their day job might cause them to see potential NWIs from a different point of view than someone doing "totally different things". Background information so the WG can form an opinion. gert -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279
What role does the database play in your professional work? is this repeated question trying to elicit conflict of interest? I find it a valid question.
i assumed it was. i was just not clear on its purpose. i can see a number of reasons.
If someone is heavily using the RIPE DB in their day job might cause them to see potential NWIs from a different point of view than someone doing "totally different things".
i kinda assumed someone wanting to sink time into co-chairing the db wg used it. maybe i am naïve. and i think we could use a number of points of view. e.g. we have a lot of members/users who are only small-time users, but there are a jillion of them and it should work well easily for them too. randy
On 04/11/16 09:33, Randy Bush wrote:
i kinda assumed someone wanting to sink time into co-chairing the db wg used it. maybe i am naïve.
Could be. I've been co-chairing the DB-WG for the last 10 years despite not using the DB apart from as a source of whois data. Prior to that I co-chaired for 10 years while actively using it on a daily basis. In that last 10 years my knowledge has decayed to such a state that I'm probably a liability to the WG rather than an asset, so it's time to step down. I'm pleased to see a number of high-quality volunteers stepping forward to take my place. Nigel
On Friday, 4 November 2016, Randy Bush <randy@psg.com> wrote:
What role does the database play in your professional work?
is this repeated question trying to elicit conflict of interest?
and could the current co-chairs also answer it? :)
Leadership whom clearly have a stake in the well-being of the database would have my preference. Example: people that work for orgs that depend on the database for their routing security posture have one up on people who don't even work for a LIR and as such don't face daily operational reality. Last meeting Nigel stated that he wants to step down because he doesn't do actually work with the database any longer. With new chairs I'd like to prevent such alienation from the get-go. Kind regards, Job
Hi Job On 04/11/2016 10:32, Job Snijders wrote:
On Friday, 4 November 2016, Randy Bush <randy@psg.com> wrote:
What role does the database play in your professional work?
is this repeated question trying to elicit conflict of interest?
and could the current co-chairs also answer it? :)
Leadership whom clearly have a stake in the well-being of the database would have my preference.
For 14 years the RIPE Database has been 100% of my professional life. I don't think there is any doubt that I am concerned about the well being of the RIPE Database.
Example: people that work for orgs that depend on the database for their routing security posture have one up on people who don't even work for a LIR and as such don't face daily operational reality.
Last meeting Nigel stated that he wants to step down because he doesn't do actually work with the database any longer. With new chairs I'd like to prevent such alienation from the get-go.
Although I don't currently work with the database at the moment, my vast knowledge and experience of the database from many angles will be a good compliment to those who do work with it. cheers denis
Kind regards,
Job
Hello Denis, On 11/04/2016 03:31 AM, ripedenis@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
Dear DB-WG members
I would like to put myself forward as a candidate for the vacant positions as a co-chair of the RIPE DB-WG. Many of you know me (for better or worse) but I will still elaborate on my relevant experience and motivation.
What is your full name, please? Yours sincerely, -- +358 4567 02048 / http://www.trex.fi/ Aleksi Suhonen / TREX Regional Exchanges Oy `What I need,' shouted Ford, by way of clarifying his previous remarks, `is a strong drink and a peer-group.' -- Douglas Adams, Life the Universe and Everything
Hi Aleksi Sorry I am so used to just signing things as 'denis'. But in full it is Denis Walker cheers denis On 05/11/2016 15:57, Aleksi Suhonen wrote:
Hello Denis,
On 11/04/2016 03:31 AM, ripedenis@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
Dear DB-WG members
I would like to put myself forward as a candidate for the vacant positions as a co-chair of the RIPE DB-WG. Many of you know me (for better or worse) but I will still elaborate on my relevant experience and motivation.
What is your full name, please?
Yours sincerely,
Hi, Hope it's not too late to express my approval of David, Denis and Piotr. Having worked with David during our time at the NCC, I can vouch for his deep understanding of not only the RIPE database, but also how RIPE policy development and the community works. I believe he would make a fine chair. My approval for Denis is based on his understanding of the RIPE database, which is second to none. He has dedicated many professional years to working solely on numerous aspects of the db since the inception of its current design. I believe his unique insight can complement the db wg chair 'team'. While I haven’t agreed with some of his methods in raising genuine db issues/concerns on the mailing list, I do think that (working closely with his co-chair(s)) his knowledge can be channelled to provide the community with valuable guidance/feedback. I approve Piotr because of his chair experience and good work up to now. Finally, thanks to both Nigel and Job for their years of fine support as chairs :) Regards, James -----Original Message----- From: db-wg [mailto:db-wg-bounces@ripe.net] On Behalf Of Piotr Strzyzewski Sent: 31 October 2016 18:45 To: db-wg@ripe.net Subject: [db-wg] WG Chairs Selection Dear DB-WG Members As agreed during DB-WG session at RIPE69 Meeting in London on 06.11.2014, the WG Chair Selection procedure is executed at yearly intervals. This means that it is about time to run it this year. This is the call for interested parties. Interested parties have 2 weeks to make their interest known on this mailing list. All members of the community are encourage to make a discussion and express their approval or otherwise of the presented candidates. After two weeks the chairs will declare consensus. Since there is a limit of 3 co-chairs, if at the end of the discussion phase there will be more than 3 proposed co-chairs then a call will be made for any of the candidates to withdraw. If there still will be more than 3 candidates then names will be put into a hat and the first three names drawn from the hat will take on the role of chairs for the next 12 months. As you may know, Job Snijders decided at the RIPE73, last week, to step down. Moreover, Nigel Titley declare that when a new chair is found, he would like to step down as well. This means, that the only reason Nigel is staying on, is not to leave the WG with only one chair. Taking this opportunity, I would like to express my interest in being co-chair for another term. All the best, Piotr -- gucio -> Piotr Strzyżewski E-mail: Piotr.Strzyzewski@polsl.pl
[speaking for myself, as nearly always] Folks, To the point of ensuring chair engagement (especially regarding interface with new/occasional users) and having a vested interest in database accuracy, I see William as a strong candidate. Similarly, Denis' long involvement with the internals of the DB would provide both a different perspective of its warts and give a sense of continuity, much-needed for these volunteer positions. Cheers! Joe Provo -- RSUC / GweepNet / Spunk / FnB / CotSG / Usenix / NANOG
Hi everyone, I am also one of the former RIPE NCC employees that has had the pleasure to work with both David and Denis. On 11/14/16 10:34 PM, Kennedy, James wrote:
Hi,
Hope it's not too late to express my approval of David, Denis and Piotr.
Having worked with David during our time at the NCC, I can vouch for his deep understanding of not only the RIPE database, but also how RIPE policy development and the community works. I believe he would make a fine chair. I believe David will make a great co-chair and he would be my first 'vote' if I were to 'vote' among all 4 candidates. My approval for Denis is based on his understanding of the RIPE database, which is second to none. He has dedicated many professional years to working solely on numerous aspects of the db since the inception of its current design. I believe his unique insight can complement the db wg chair 'team'. I also have had the pleasure to talk to Denis a few times and attend a few of his presentations to our department where he was showcasing his views on the RIPE Database. He is probably one of the few in this world with such insight on the whole design and history of the database. While I haven’t agreed with some of his methods in raising genuine db issues/concerns on the mailing list, I do think that (working closely with his co-chair(s)) his knowledge can be channelled to provide the community with valuable guidance/feedback. I am sure Denis would also make a great co-chair and the only reason why he is second on my list is the way he has decided to handle the communication with this WG and the NCC after he has left the NCC. While I can understand that he was upset, the way he has tried to attack a few of his ex-colleagues in public, on this mailing list, was wrong.
Hoping that his need for revenge has calmed down and the worst has passed, I also think his experience will be a great asset to the chairs of this WG.
I approve Piotr because of his chair experience and good work up to now.
+1
Finally, thanks to both Nigel and Job for their years of fine support as chairs :)
Great job you guys! Thanks!
Regards, James
cheers, elvis
-----Original Message----- From: db-wg [mailto:db-wg-bounces@ripe.net] On Behalf Of Piotr Strzyzewski Sent: 31 October 2016 18:45 To: db-wg@ripe.net Subject: [db-wg] WG Chairs Selection
Dear DB-WG Members
As agreed during DB-WG session at RIPE69 Meeting in London on 06.11.2014, the WG Chair Selection procedure is executed at yearly intervals. This means that it is about time to run it this year.
This is the call for interested parties. Interested parties have 2 weeks to make their interest known on this mailing list. All members of the community are encourage to make a discussion and express their approval or otherwise of the presented candidates.
After two weeks the chairs will declare consensus.
Since there is a limit of 3 co-chairs, if at the end of the discussion phase there will be more than 3 proposed co-chairs then a call will be made for any of the candidates to withdraw.
If there still will be more than 3 candidates then names will be put into a hat and the first three names drawn from the hat will take on the role of chairs for the next 12 months.
As you may know, Job Snijders decided at the RIPE73, last week, to step down. Moreover, Nigel Titley declare that when a new chair is found, he would like to step down as well. This means, that the only reason Nigel is staying on, is not to leave the WG with only one chair.
Taking this opportunity, I would like to express my interest in being co-chair for another term.
All the best, Piotr
-- gucio -> Piotr Strzyżewski E-mail: Piotr.Strzyzewski@polsl.pl
Hi All The point about my communication style has been raised a couple of times. I have never been one to shy away from difficult issues so I will address this point directly. As Elvis said I was a little upset at the way I left the RIPE NCC, mostly with one person in particular who developed a dislike of me over the years. As that person is no longer with the NCC I consider that chapter closed and confined to history. I have also been wrestling with some health issues over the last couple of years that caused quite a lot of stress and anxiety in me. This did increase my tendency to express some issues in a manner that, in the cold light of day, I may well have put more tactfully. With most of this behind me now, I am only looking forward to, hopefully, a new chapter in my working relationship with the RIPE Database, the RIPE NCC and the RIPE community. cheersdenis From: Elvis Daniel Velea <elvis@velea.eu> To: db-wg@ripe.net Sent: Wednesday, 16 November 2016, 17:21 Subject: Re: [db-wg] WG Chairs Selection Hi everyone, I am also one of the former RIPE NCC employees that has had the pleasure to work with both David and Denis. On 11/14/16 10:34 PM, Kennedy, James wrote:
Hi,
Hope it's not too late to express my approval of David, Denis and Piotr.
I also have had the pleasure to talk to Denis a few times and attend a few of his presentations to our department where he was showcasing his views on the RIPE Database. He is probably one of the few in this world with such insight on the whole design and history of the database.
While I haven’t agreed with some of his methods in raising genuine db issues/concerns on the mailing list, I do think that (working closely with his co-chair(s)) his knowledge can be channelled to provide the community with valuable guidance/feedback. I am sure Denis would also make a great co-chair and the only reason why he is second on my list is the way he has decided to handle the communication with this WG and the NCC after he has left the NCC. While I can understand that he was upset, the way he has tried to attack a few of his ex-colleagues in public, on this mailing list, was wrong.
Hoping that his need for revenge has calmed down and the worst has passed, I also think his experience will be a great asset to the chairs of this WG.
I approve Piotr because of his chair experience and good work up to now.
+1
Finally, thanks to both Nigel and Job for their years of fine support as chairs :)
Great job you guys! Thanks!
Regards, James
cheers, elvis
Hi Denis, Hope that your health is improved. Sorry to hear about that. The question that I have is, will you be able to attend RIPE meetings? Not many RIPE meetings are in The Netherlands anymore and the last meeting that I can see that you attended was while working at RIPE NCC in Warsaw ( RIPE68 - May 2014) And a (co)-chair should be present at the meetings as much as possible imho. I'm not debating your knowlegde on the DB, but if this isn't working from a logistics point, a chair position may not be the best choice atm. Regards, Erik Bais
Op 16 nov. 2016 om 18:26 heeft <ripedenis@yahoo.co.uk> <ripedenis@yahoo.co.uk> het volgende geschreven:
Hi All
The point about my communication style has been raised a couple of times. I have never been one to shy away from difficult issues so I will address this point directly.
As Elvis said I was a little upset at the way I left the RIPE NCC, mostly with one person in particular who developed a dislike of me over the years. As that person is no longer with the NCC I consider that chapter closed and confined to history.
I have also been wrestling with some health issues over the last couple of years that caused quite a lot of stress and anxiety in me. This did increase my tendency to express some issues in a manner that, in the cold light of day, I may well have put more tactfully.
With most of this behind me now, I am only looking forward to, hopefully, a new chapter in my working relationship with the RIPE Database, the RIPE NCC and the RIPE community.
cheers denis
From: Elvis Daniel Velea <elvis@velea.eu> To: db-wg@ripe.net Sent: Wednesday, 16 November 2016, 17:21 Subject: Re: [db-wg] WG Chairs Selection
Hi everyone,
I am also one of the former RIPE NCC employees that has had the pleasure to work with both David and Denis.
On 11/14/16 10:34 PM, Kennedy, James wrote:
Hi,
Hope it's not too late to express my approval of David, Denis and Piotr.
I also have had the pleasure to talk to Denis a few times and attend a few of his presentations to our department where he was showcasing his views on the RIPE Database. He is probably one of the few in this world with such insight on the whole design and history of the database.
While I haven’t agreed with some of his methods in raising genuine db issues/concerns on the mailing list, I do think that (working closely with his co-chair(s)) his knowledge can be channelled to provide the community with valuable guidance/feedback. I am sure Denis would also make a great co-chair and the only reason why he is second on my list is the way he has decided to handle the communication with this WG and the NCC after he has left the NCC. While I can understand that he was upset, the way he has tried to attack a few of his ex-colleagues in public, on this mailing list, was wrong.
Hoping that his need for revenge has calmed down and the worst has passed, I also think his experience will be a great asset to the chairs of this WG.
I approve Piotr because of his chair experience and good work up to now.
+1
Finally, thanks to both Nigel and Job for their years of fine support as chairs :)
Great job you guys! Thanks!
Regards, James
cheers, elvis
Hi Erik Yes as a co-chair I would be able to attend RIPE Meetings. Since I left the NCC there has not been any need for me to attend, but I still followed many of them online. cheers denis On 16/11/2016 19:21, Erik Bais - A2B Internet wrote:
Hi Denis,
Hope that your health is improved. Sorry to hear about that.
The question that I have is, will you be able to attend RIPE meetings? Not many RIPE meetings are in The Netherlands anymore and the last meeting that I can see that you attended was while working at RIPE NCC in Warsaw ( RIPE68 - May 2014)
And a (co)-chair should be present at the meetings as much as possible imho.
I'm not debating your knowlegde on the DB, but if this isn't working from a logistics point, a chair position may not be the best choice atm.
Regards, Erik Bais
Op 16 nov. 2016 om 18:26 heeft <ripedenis@yahoo.co.uk> <ripedenis@yahoo.co.uk> het volgende geschreven:
Hi All
The point about my communication style has been raised a couple of times. I have never been one to shy away from difficult issues so I will address this point directly.
As Elvis said I was a little upset at the way I left the RIPE NCC, mostly with one person in particular who developed a dislike of me over the years. As that person is no longer with the NCC I consider that chapter closed and confined to history.
I have also been wrestling with some health issues over the last couple of years that caused quite a lot of stress and anxiety in me. This did increase my tendency to express some issues in a manner that, in the cold light of day, I may well have put more tactfully.
With most of this behind me now, I am only looking forward to, hopefully, a new chapter in my working relationship with the RIPE Database, the RIPE NCC and the RIPE community.
cheers denis
From: Elvis Daniel Velea <elvis@velea.eu> To: db-wg@ripe.net Sent: Wednesday, 16 November 2016, 17:21 Subject: Re: [db-wg] WG Chairs Selection
Hi everyone,
I am also one of the former RIPE NCC employees that has had the pleasure to work with both David and Denis.
On 11/14/16 10:34 PM, Kennedy, James wrote:
Hi,
Hope it's not too late to express my approval of David, Denis and Piotr.
While I haven’t agreed with some of his methods in raising genuine db issues/concerns on the mailing list, I do think that (working closely with his co-chair(s)) his knowledge can be channelled to provide the community with valuable guidance/feedback. I am sure Denis would also make a great co-chair and the only reason why he is second on my list is the way he has decided to handle the communication with this WG and the NCC after he has left
I also have had the pleasure to talk to Denis a few times and attend a few of his presentations to our department where he was showcasing his views on the RIPE Database. He is probably one of the few in this world with such insight on the whole design and history of the database. the NCC. While I can understand that he was upset, the way he has tried to attack a few of his ex-colleagues in public, on this mailing list, was wrong.
Hoping that his need for revenge has calmed down and the worst has passed, I also think his experience will be a great asset to the chairs of this WG.
I approve Piotr because of his chair experience and good work up to now.
+1
Finally, thanks to both Nigel and Job for their years of fine support as chairs :)
Great job you guys! Thanks!
Regards, James
cheers, elvis
Hi Denis,
Yes as a co-chair I would be able to attend RIPE Meetings. Since I left the NCC there has not been any need for me to attend, but I still followed many of them online.
I have a problem with this line of thinking. A chair should be present at the meetings and one can't say I'll come to the meeting once I'm the (co-)chair.. The chair should be selected from people in the room, not from the mailing list and if you have the feeling that you don't 'need' to attend as a regular community member, then that is not the chair I would want. Being the chair of most of the WG's and DB (or AP for that matter) in particular, have shown to be the MOST ungrateful job in the community. I don't envy ANY of the chairs for some of the abuse or personal attacks some of them have to deal with.. It is not a thing to polish one's resume with ... What I want to avoid is that we come to a situation where we select a DB WG chair here on the mailing list, under the assumption that he/she will come to meetings .. but then doesn't ... Or if he/she does, that he/she will have/get a financial issue maintaining his/her presence at the meetings. Being a chair doesn't give any compensation .. a chair, like any other community member will need to pay for his/her own entrance ticket and lodging.. and travel. This would sum up easy to 1500 euro to 2500 euro cost per event.. And with all respect, if you don't have a (corporate) sponsor ( like an employer or are self-employed), that means that this becomes a very heavy burden to carry that might add undesired stress .. and from what I read in your replies, that might not be the best idea. I'm not talking here if you would be fit for the job or if you know what you are talking about in regards of the database, but this isn't rocket science Denis.. I don't think that the community would do you a (or any) favor by asking you that kind of (financial) commitment.. while you could steer less the ideas from the stage than you would be from the meeting room. So if the goal of your plan to run for (co-)chair is to work with the community to push a certain line of thinking into the future of the DB-WG, I would strongly suggest to do this in the community (in the room or on the mailing list) and not as a chair (at this moment..) Regards, Erik Bais
Hi Erik, Can't say I agree with your line of questioning or views here.
A chair should be present at the meetings and one can't say I'll come to the meeting once I'm the (co-)chair..
Why not? Not all members have the finances that brokers enjoy (made directly from our RIR communities and members) or time to attend all meetings. Under the Working Group Chair Job Description and Procedures: https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-542 "6. RIPE Meetings Responsibilities i) General/Plenary WG Chairs are expected to: Attend RIPE Meetings **or ensure that a co-chair attends the meeting**" Wilfried I believe was a very successful DB WG chair, yet did not attend RIPE 57 in Dubai. Where Nigel did just fine: meetings.ripe.net/ripe-57/quicktime/database.mov And I'm sure there are several other instances where chairs could not attend a meeting due to extreme circumstances, yet they served the community very well.
The chair should be selected from people in the room, not from the mailing list
Red flag for me. So a room of say 100 members have the authority to decide the chair(s) for a community of ~15k members? And the community's feedback on the mailing list is not as important? Hmm. I believe that the lack of diverse contribution on the mailing lists, beyond the usual few, is primarily because many members feel disenfranchised by exactly these kind of sentiments. We are a large community, geographically as well as membership wise. We need to widen the net of opinions and interests rather than narrowing it.
So if the goal of your plan to run for (co-)chair is to work with the community to push a certain line of thinking into the future of the DB-WG
Chairs do take their official wg-chair hat off occasionally to express their personal opinion, and clearly announce when they are doing so. Is that no longer allowed? And I have faith in the intelligence and integrity of the community to pounce on any bias they feel coming from a chair while in their official capacity, as it has always done. [Note: Denis has already stated that the next group of chairs should focus on the growing list of important issues already on the table. And that this not the time or place for offering his personal view on potential DB improvements.] Regarding the rest of your email, I don't think it's tasteful to discuss people's financial situations publically. Keeping my +1 for Denis strong because of his immense understanding of the RIPE DB that can be an asset in supporting the whole community's interests. Along with my approvals for David and Piotr. Regards, James -----Original Message----- From: db-wg [mailto:db-wg-bounces@ripe.net] On Behalf Of Erik Bais Sent: 18 November 2016 12:36 To: 'denis' Cc: db-wg@ripe.net Subject: Re: [db-wg] WG Chairs Selection Hi Denis,
Yes as a co-chair I would be able to attend RIPE Meetings. Since I left the NCC there has not been any need for me to attend, but I still followed many of them online.
I have a problem with this line of thinking. A chair should be present at the meetings and one can't say I'll come to the meeting once I'm the (co-)chair.. The chair should be selected from people in the room, not from the mailing list and if you have the feeling that you don't 'need' to attend as a regular community member, then that is not the chair I would want. Being the chair of most of the WG's and DB (or AP for that matter) in particular, have shown to be the MOST ungrateful job in the community. I don't envy ANY of the chairs for some of the abuse or personal attacks some of them have to deal with.. It is not a thing to polish one's resume with ... What I want to avoid is that we come to a situation where we select a DB WG chair here on the mailing list, under the assumption that he/she will come to meetings .. but then doesn't ... Or if he/she does, that he/she will have/get a financial issue maintaining his/her presence at the meetings. Being a chair doesn't give any compensation .. a chair, like any other community member will need to pay for his/her own entrance ticket and lodging.. and travel. This would sum up easy to 1500 euro to 2500 euro cost per event.. And with all respect, if you don't have a (corporate) sponsor ( like an employer or are self-employed), that means that this becomes a very heavy burden to carry that might add undesired stress .. and from what I read in your replies, that might not be the best idea. I'm not talking here if you would be fit for the job or if you know what you are talking about in regards of the database, but this isn't rocket science Denis.. I don't think that the community would do you a (or any) favor by asking you that kind of (financial) commitment.. while you could steer less the ideas from the stage than you would be from the meeting room. So if the goal of your plan to run for (co-)chair is to work with the community to push a certain line of thinking into the future of the DB-WG, I would strongly suggest to do this in the community (in the room or on the mailing list) and not as a chair (at this moment..) Regards, Erik Bais
While this is very insightful (thanks for sharing, Erik), I think we are switching from professional to a personal level here. If anywhere, in RIPE NCC, physical presence should not be viewed as a number one priority. Even a 'company-sponsored' chair can be denied travel by employer or have other business to take care of during the meeting week. If physical presence is an issue, I propose we fix that problem, not accept and then enforce limitations. Cheers, Agoston On Fri, Nov 18, 2016 at 12:36 PM, Erik Bais <ebais@a2b-internet.com> wrote:
Hi Denis,
Yes as a co-chair I would be able to attend RIPE Meetings. Since I left the NCC there has not been any need for me to attend, but I still followed many of them online.
I have a problem with this line of thinking.
A chair should be present at the meetings and one can't say I'll come to the meeting once I'm the (co-)chair.. The chair should be selected from people in the room, not from the mailing list and if you have the feeling that you don't 'need' to attend as a regular community member, then that is not the chair I would want.
Being the chair of most of the WG's and DB (or AP for that matter) in particular, have shown to be the MOST ungrateful job in the community. I don't envy ANY of the chairs for some of the abuse or personal attacks some of them have to deal with.. It is not a thing to polish one's resume with ...
What I want to avoid is that we come to a situation where we select a DB WG chair here on the mailing list, under the assumption that he/she will come to meetings .. but then doesn't ... Or if he/she does, that he/she will have/get a financial issue maintaining his/her presence at the meetings.
Being a chair doesn't give any compensation .. a chair, like any other community member will need to pay for his/her own entrance ticket and lodging.. and travel. This would sum up easy to 1500 euro to 2500 euro cost per event.. And with all respect, if you don't have a (corporate) sponsor ( like an employer or are self-employed), that means that this becomes a very heavy burden to carry that might add undesired stress .. and from what I read in your replies, that might not be the best idea.
I'm not talking here if you would be fit for the job or if you know what you are talking about in regards of the database, but this isn't rocket science Denis.. I don't think that the community would do you a (or any) favor by asking you that kind of (financial) commitment.. while you could steer less the ideas from the stage than you would be from the meeting room.
So if the goal of your plan to run for (co-)chair is to work with the community to push a certain line of thinking into the future of the DB-WG, I would strongly suggest to do this in the community (in the room or on the mailing list) and not as a chair (at this moment..)
Regards, Erik Bais
Hi, On Fri, Nov 18, 2016 at 05:16:33PM +0100, Horváth Ágoston János wrote:
While this is very insightful (thanks for sharing, Erik), I think we are switching from professional to a personal level here.
If anywhere, in RIPE NCC, physical presence should not be viewed as a number one priority. Even a 'company-sponsored' chair can be denied travel by employer or have other business to take care of during the meeting week. If physical presence is an issue, I propose we fix that problem, not accept and then enforce limitations.
We might all wish otherwise, but "chairing a working group" is really best done in presence... Of course it will happen that a WG chair cannot attend - and this is why WGs have two or three co-chairs. But this needs to be the exception. So, a WG-chair-cancidate needs to be aware that this will busy him two weeks a year, and that this comes with travelling - but I do not see an issue with this in the current candidate set. They all are not naive newcomers but seasoned DB veterans that have attended enough meetings to understand what will be asked of them. Gert Doering -- some experience with WG chairing and meeting attendance -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279
On Fri, Nov 18, 2016 at 05:21:57PM +0100, Gert Doering wrote:
On Fri, Nov 18, 2016 at 05:16:33PM +0100, Horváth Ágoston János wrote:
While this is very insightful (thanks for sharing, Erik), I think we are switching from professional to a personal level here.
If anywhere, in RIPE NCC, physical presence should not be viewed as a number one priority. Even a 'company-sponsored' chair can be denied travel by employer or have other business to take care of during the meeting week. If physical presence is an issue, I propose we fix that problem, not accept and then enforce limitations.
We might all wish otherwise, but "chairing a working group" is really best done in presence...
Of course it will happen that a WG chair cannot attend - and this is why WGs have two or three co-chairs. But this needs to be the exception.
So, a WG-chair-cancidate needs to be aware that this will busy him two weeks a year, and that this comes with travelling - but I do not see an issue with this in the current candidate set. They all are not naive newcomers but seasoned DB veterans that have attended enough meetings to understand what will be asked of them.
I do have a problem with a chair who is only willing to travel to meetings if he is a chair, and habitually insulted and bullied RIPE NCC staff without remorse. We should also consider that a knowledgeable working group participant does not equal being a great chair. Regards, Job
Hi All On 21/11/2016 11:11, Job Snijders wrote:
On Fri, Nov 18, 2016 at 05:21:57PM +0100, Gert Doering wrote:
On Fri, Nov 18, 2016 at 05:16:33PM +0100, Horváth Ágoston János wrote:
While this is very insightful (thanks for sharing, Erik), I think we are switching from professional to a personal level here.
If anywhere, in RIPE NCC, physical presence should not be viewed as a number one priority. Even a 'company-sponsored' chair can be denied travel by employer or have other business to take care of during the meeting week. If physical presence is an issue, I propose we fix that problem, not accept and then enforce limitations. We might all wish otherwise, but "chairing a working group" is really best done in presence...
Of course it will happen that a WG chair cannot attend - and this is why WGs have two or three co-chairs. But this needs to be the exception.
So, a WG-chair-cancidate needs to be aware that this will busy him two weeks a year, and that this comes with travelling - but I do not see an issue with this in the current candidate set. They all are not naive newcomers but seasoned DB veterans that have attended enough meetings to understand what will be asked of them.
Job, why don't you just come straight out with it and say you personally have an issue with me and you don't want me to be one of the next co-chairs. Stop dancing around the issue and trying to make psuedo conditions aimed at disqualifying me.
I do have a problem with a chair who is only willing to travel to
Why are some people so fixated over this point? As Erik said it does cost a lot of money to go to a RIPE Meeting. If I don't 'need' to be their in person I can follow the whole meeting online. Just as so many of the thousands of smaller members have to do. Not all members can afford to fly around the world for weeks at a time to attend these meetings. As a chair I would need to be their in person and that would be my plan.
meetings if he is a chair, and habitually insulted and bullied RIPE NCC staff without remorse.
My anger was directed at one person in particular, the one who sacked myself and many other great engineers based on lies. That person is no longer with the RIPE NCC now. As far as I am concerned that chapter is closed. And as Trump would say, what happened in the past should not disbar anyone from doing great things in the future. Bullying is an interesting topic Job. I am glad you brought that up. It reminds me of someone who uses a position to publicly bully and harass other RIPE NCC members who prefer and choose to document their routing in the RIPE Database rather than in the AFRINIC Database. Not everyone, in either the RIPE or AFRINIC community, agrees with the AFRINIC homing project. As a co-chair you have consistently and habitually refused to allow some topics to be discussed and blatantly ignored some issues that have been professionally raised. The evidence of this is well documented in the mailing list archives. This kind of action supports the established and wealthier members and deters the smaller and newer members from being actively involved in a discussion group that they do not see as very welcoming. You own review of the list of NWIs at the recent RIPE Meeting with an average of about 2 responses to each topic shows a spectacular failure to involve the greater community and drive forward any issue to completion. It is clear a new approach is needed.
We should also consider that a knowledgeable working group participant does not equal being a great chair.
Someone who uses a position to push their own agenda and is unable to step back and take a neutral and impartial view and involve a wider range of the membership in decisions also does not equal being a great chair. cheers denis
Regards,
Job
Although Job's prior email was inappropriate, I don't believe that Denis's reply below was acceptable for someone seeking the position of co-chair of this WG. Due to this and several other similarly toned emails from him to this mailing list over the last number of months, I think it would be in the best interests of the working group if he did not become a co-chair at this time, and respectfully suggest that he may wish to consider withdrawing his candidacy for the position. Nick denis wrote:
My anger was directed at one person in particular, the one who sacked myself and many other great engineers based on lies. That person is no longer with the RIPE NCC now. As far as I am concerned that chapter is closed. And as Trump would say, what happened in the past should not disbar anyone from doing great things in the future.
Bullying is an interesting topic Job. I am glad you brought that up. It reminds me of someone who uses a position to publicly bully and harass other RIPE NCC members who prefer and choose to document their routing in the RIPE Database rather than in the AFRINIC Database. Not everyone, in either the RIPE or AFRINIC community, agrees with the AFRINIC homing project.
As a co-chair you have consistently and habitually refused to allow some topics to be discussed and blatantly ignored some issues that have been professionally raised. The evidence of this is well documented in the mailing list archives. This kind of action supports the established and wealthier members and deters the smaller and newer members from being actively involved in a discussion group that they do not see as very welcoming. You own review of the list of NWIs at the recent RIPE Meeting with an average of about 2 responses to each topic shows a spectacular failure to involve the greater community and drive forward any issue to completion. It is clear a new approach is needed.
We should also consider that a knowledgeable working group participant does not equal being a great chair.
Someone who uses a position to push their own agenda and is unable to step back and take a neutral and impartial view and involve a wider range of the membership in decisions also does not equal being a great chair.
cheers denis
Although Job's prior email was inappropriate, I don't believe that Denis's reply below was acceptable
this whole episode is deeply embarrassing and inappropriate. i dropped arin, apnic, ... because of the schoolyard bullying, trash talk, and political manipulation. the ripe community has always been civil and put the stewardship of the internet above personal interests. we can either return to that or turn out the lights. randy
Hi Randy To some extent I agree with you. I would much rather be talking about the NWIs and bringing some of those issues to a conclusion. But so many other people prefer to talk about me. I have already said I have had some serious health issues over the last couple of years and been under a lot of stress. I accept that some of the things I have said in that time were not my best comments on this list. I can't change the past, only improve on the future. But some members of this establishment are not going to let go of the past. A very small group of regular vocal people seem determined to block me. I am happy to move forward and address the many open issues with the database. And hopefully bring in some new voices to these matters. But I am not a punch bag. If I am attacked I will fight back. So raising the tone of this discussion is not in my hands. Cheers Denis On 25 Nov 2016 3:32 p.m., "Randy Bush" <randy@psg.com> wrote:
Although Job's prior email was inappropriate, I don't believe that Denis's reply below was acceptable
this whole episode is deeply embarrassing and inappropriate. i dropped arin, apnic, ... because of the schoolyard bullying, trash talk, and political manipulation. the ripe community has always been civil and put the stewardship of the internet above personal interests. we can either return to that or turn out the lights.
randy
I would rather that we return to being civil to each other. I ask that we keep this discussion courteous, factual and avoiding personal attacks. I would ask that those who feel they are being attacked to take a deep breath, reply, if you must, in the way you would like to be addressed and if possible just absorb the blows. Being a punch bag *is* a necessary attribute of being a WG Chair. Also remember that most people on this list do not have English as their first language. It is possible to say things in all innocence that come across badly. Always assume that what has been said has been said in innocence. Nigel On 25/11/16 14:32, Randy Bush wrote:
Although Job's prior email was inappropriate, I don't believe that Denis's reply below was acceptable
this whole episode is deeply embarrassing and inappropriate. i dropped arin, apnic, ... because of the schoolyard bullying, trash talk, and political manipulation. the ripe community has always been civil and put the stewardship of the internet above personal interests. we can either return to that or turn out the lights.
randy
Hi, On Fri, Nov 25, 2016 at 04:01:54PM +0000, Nigel Titley wrote:
Being a punch bag *is* a necessary attribute of being a WG Chair.
*Now* you tell me... Gert Doering -- random person from the street -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279
Could I ask that people try and conduct the discussion in a civilised fashion. Whilst some valid questions have been asked about Denis' ability to travel to RIPE meetings I feel he has answered them satisfactorily. Nigel
If anywhere, in RIPE NCC, physical presence should not be viewed as a number one priority. Even a 'company-sponsored' chair can be denied travel by employer or have other business to take care of during the meeting week. If physical presence is an issue, I propose we fix that problem, not accept and then enforce limitations.
This is tricky. It's not possible (or at the least 'very challenging') to chair a working group session at a RIPE meeting without being present. Having said that, not all co-chairs need to be present at each and every meeting. Speaking as a former co-chair of a WG, I know of instances of co-chairs being absent from a number of WG meetings, whether it was through other commitments, having recently become a parent, or just a clash within the meeting. However, habitual absence does force the work onto the other chairs. If Denis believes he is going to be able to attend future meetings, then I don't see that is an issue here. Rob
participants (22)
-
Aleksi Suhonen -
den is -
denis -
Elvis Daniel Velea -
Erik Bais -
Erik Bais - A2B Internet
-
fransossen＠yahoo.com -
Gert Doering -
Horváth Ágoston János -
Job Snijders -
Job Snijders -
Joe Provo -
Kennedy, James -
Nick Hilliard -
Nigel Titley -
Peter Thimmesch -
Piotr Strzyzewski -
Randy Bush -
ripedenis＠yahoo.co.uk
-
Rob Evans -
Sander Steffann -
William Sylvester