Re: [anti-abuse-wg] RIPE AA-WG discussion
As a Co-Chair I didn't want to jump into the mix on the mailing list,
Hi, (intro) Tobias Knecht sent me an email (which this is a reply to) abusing his position as co-chair in order to try to sell me services based on what I said on a mailing list. (mainly towards Tobias) Replying to me based on a mailing list post in order to try to sell me services is bad enough. To do it as a co-chair and then to use the fact that you are co-chair as a selling point is much worse. I find this utterly appalling behaviour from a co-chair of a working group, I didn't reach out to you, you weren't even in the thread at all. also this: that's why I'm reaching out to you directly. I mean that is sort of the point of co-chairs generally speaking but yeah it is going to look bad if you are trying to sell something, because it is bad. (mainly towards chair team and aa-wg chairs) A co-chair of a working group should absolutely be warned or removed if they abuse their position to sell their services. I also somehow doubt that this is the first time, I could be wrong, but idk why this would be the first time. I hate it when for example Cogent sends me emails trying to sell me services despite me never having contacted them (outside of replying saying I am not interested). But this is more like if the Cogent sales people were co-chairs of the db-wg. Also with a subject like "RIPE AA-WG discussion" I initially thought it was actually about something I said or whatever, in his role as co-chair, it didn't appear like it was a sales email. I have also CC'd the aa-wg and ripe list as this is too appalling to be held private. -Cynthia On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 5:50 PM Tobias Knecht <tk@abusix.com> wrote:
Hello Cynthia,
my name is Tobias. I'm a Co-Chair of the Anti-Abuse Working Group and also Founder and CEO of Abusix.
As a Co-Chair I didn't want to jump into the mix on the mailing list, that's why I'm reaching out to you directly.
We at Abusix run Abuse Desk for dozens of Service Providers of any size and any type of product. From Cloud to DC-Services, Cable, and so on.
Happy to jump on a call and answer the questions you have and tell you about how our clients handle those things.
Feel free to reach out via email or just pick a time in my calendar: https://calendly.com/tobias-knecht/30min
Thanks and stay safe.
Tobias
--
Tobias Knecht
Founder & CEO
T.
+49 170 455 98 45
[image: My Logo]
CONFIDENTIALITY This email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the named recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to another person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium.
I think you totally misread his mail. It reads to me as a proposal to help you understand the processes used by many providers, not as a sales pitch. Best, -- Volker A. Greimann General Counsel and Policy Manager *KEY-SYSTEMS GMBH* T: +49 6894 9396901 M: +49 6894 9396851 F: +49 6894 9396851 W: www.key-systems.net Key-Systems GmbH is a company registered at the local court of Saarbruecken, Germany with the registration no. HR B 18835 CEO: Oliver Fries and Robert Birkner Part of the CentralNic Group PLC (LON: CNIC) a company registered in England and Wales with company number 8576358. This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended only for the person(s) directly addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, transmission, distribution, or other forms of dissemination is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete this email with any files that may be attached. On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 6:12 PM Cynthia Revström via anti-abuse-wg < anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net> wrote:
Hi,
(intro) Tobias Knecht sent me an email (which this is a reply to) abusing his position as co-chair in order to try to sell me services based on what I said on a mailing list.
(mainly towards Tobias) Replying to me based on a mailing list post in order to try to sell me services is bad enough. To do it as a co-chair and then to use the fact that you are co-chair as a selling point is much worse.
I find this utterly appalling behaviour from a co-chair of a working group, I didn't reach out to you, you weren't even in the thread at all.
As a Co-Chair I didn't want to jump into the mix on the mailing list,
also this: that's why I'm reaching out to you directly.
I mean that is sort of the point of co-chairs generally speaking but yeah it is going to look bad if you are trying to sell something, because it is bad.
(mainly towards chair team and aa-wg chairs) A co-chair of a working group should absolutely be warned or removed if they abuse their position to sell their services.
I also somehow doubt that this is the first time, I could be wrong, but idk why this would be the first time.
I hate it when for example Cogent sends me emails trying to sell me services despite me never having contacted them (outside of replying saying I am not interested). But this is more like if the Cogent sales people were co-chairs of the db-wg.
Also with a subject like "RIPE AA-WG discussion" I initially thought it was actually about something I said or whatever, in his role as co-chair, it didn't appear like it was a sales email.
I have also CC'd the aa-wg and ripe list as this is too appalling to be held private.
-Cynthia
On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 5:50 PM Tobias Knecht <tk@abusix.com> wrote:
Hello Cynthia,
my name is Tobias. I'm a Co-Chair of the Anti-Abuse Working Group and also Founder and CEO of Abusix.
As a Co-Chair I didn't want to jump into the mix on the mailing list, that's why I'm reaching out to you directly.
We at Abusix run Abuse Desk for dozens of Service Providers of any size and any type of product. From Cloud to DC-Services, Cable, and so on.
Happy to jump on a call and answer the questions you have and tell you about how our clients handle those things.
Feel free to reach out via email or just pick a time in my calendar: https://calendly.com/tobias-knecht/30min
Thanks and stay safe.
Tobias
--
Tobias Knecht
Founder & CEO
T.
+49 170 455 98 45
[image: My Logo]
CONFIDENTIALITY This email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the named recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to another person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium.
On 22 Feb 2021, at 12:18, Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net> wrote:
I think you totally misread his mail. It reads to me as a proposal to help you understand the processes used by many providers, not as a sales pitch.
Agreed - it looks like an offer to share data and operational practices. f
It is possible but I highly doubt it.
We at Abusix run Abuse Desk for dozens of Service Providers of any size and any type of product. From Cloud to DC-Services, Cable, and so on.
That sounds so much like marketing and irrelevant if it wasn't. Also if it wasn't marketing, why would he ask for me to schedule a video call? Once again I could be wrong, and if I am, I am sorry, but I can't see how this isn't marketing. -Cynthia On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 6:18 PM Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net> wrote:
I think you totally misread his mail. It reads to me as a proposal to help you understand the processes used by many providers, not as a sales pitch.
Best, -- Volker A. Greimann General Counsel and Policy Manager *KEY-SYSTEMS GMBH*
T: +49 6894 9396901 M: +49 6894 9396851 F: +49 6894 9396851 W: www.key-systems.net
Key-Systems GmbH is a company registered at the local court of Saarbruecken, Germany with the registration no. HR B 18835 CEO: Oliver Fries and Robert Birkner
Part of the CentralNic Group PLC (LON: CNIC) a company registered in England and Wales with company number 8576358.
This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended only for the person(s) directly addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, transmission, distribution, or other forms of dissemination is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete this email with any files that may be attached.
On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 6:12 PM Cynthia Revström via anti-abuse-wg < anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net> wrote:
Hi,
(intro) Tobias Knecht sent me an email (which this is a reply to) abusing his position as co-chair in order to try to sell me services based on what I said on a mailing list.
(mainly towards Tobias) Replying to me based on a mailing list post in order to try to sell me services is bad enough. To do it as a co-chair and then to use the fact that you are co-chair as a selling point is much worse.
I find this utterly appalling behaviour from a co-chair of a working group, I didn't reach out to you, you weren't even in the thread at all.
As a Co-Chair I didn't want to jump into the mix on the mailing list,
also this: that's why I'm reaching out to you directly.
I mean that is sort of the point of co-chairs generally speaking but yeah it is going to look bad if you are trying to sell something, because it is bad.
(mainly towards chair team and aa-wg chairs) A co-chair of a working group should absolutely be warned or removed if they abuse their position to sell their services.
I also somehow doubt that this is the first time, I could be wrong, but idk why this would be the first time.
I hate it when for example Cogent sends me emails trying to sell me services despite me never having contacted them (outside of replying saying I am not interested). But this is more like if the Cogent sales people were co-chairs of the db-wg.
Also with a subject like "RIPE AA-WG discussion" I initially thought it was actually about something I said or whatever, in his role as co-chair, it didn't appear like it was a sales email.
I have also CC'd the aa-wg and ripe list as this is too appalling to be held private.
-Cynthia
On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 5:50 PM Tobias Knecht <tk@abusix.com> wrote:
Hello Cynthia,
my name is Tobias. I'm a Co-Chair of the Anti-Abuse Working Group and also Founder and CEO of Abusix.
As a Co-Chair I didn't want to jump into the mix on the mailing list, that's why I'm reaching out to you directly.
We at Abusix run Abuse Desk for dozens of Service Providers of any size and any type of product. From Cloud to DC-Services, Cable, and so on.
Happy to jump on a call and answer the questions you have and tell you about how our clients handle those things.
Feel free to reach out via email or just pick a time in my calendar: https://calendly.com/tobias-knecht/30min
Thanks and stay safe.
Tobias
--
Tobias Knecht
Founder & CEO
T.
+49 170 455 98 45
[image: My Logo]
CONFIDENTIALITY This email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the named recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to another person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium.
Tobias, Could you please clarify what the intent was of this email? I should probably have started by asking this but to me it seems so much like marketing. -Cynthia On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 6:23 PM Cynthia Revström <me@cynthia.re> wrote:
It is possible but I highly doubt it.
We at Abusix run Abuse Desk for dozens of Service Providers of any size and any type of product. From Cloud to DC-Services, Cable, and so on.
That sounds so much like marketing and irrelevant if it wasn't. Also if it wasn't marketing, why would he ask for me to schedule a video call?
Once again I could be wrong, and if I am, I am sorry, but I can't see how this isn't marketing.
-Cynthia
On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 6:18 PM Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net> wrote:
I think you totally misread his mail. It reads to me as a proposal to help you understand the processes used by many providers, not as a sales pitch.
Best, -- Volker A. Greimann General Counsel and Policy Manager *KEY-SYSTEMS GMBH*
T: +49 6894 9396901 M: +49 6894 9396851 F: +49 6894 9396851 W: www.key-systems.net
Key-Systems GmbH is a company registered at the local court of Saarbruecken, Germany with the registration no. HR B 18835 CEO: Oliver Fries and Robert Birkner
Part of the CentralNic Group PLC (LON: CNIC) a company registered in England and Wales with company number 8576358.
This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended only for the person(s) directly addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, transmission, distribution, or other forms of dissemination is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete this email with any files that may be attached.
On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 6:12 PM Cynthia Revström via anti-abuse-wg < anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net> wrote:
Hi,
(intro) Tobias Knecht sent me an email (which this is a reply to) abusing his position as co-chair in order to try to sell me services based on what I said on a mailing list.
(mainly towards Tobias) Replying to me based on a mailing list post in order to try to sell me services is bad enough. To do it as a co-chair and then to use the fact that you are co-chair as a selling point is much worse.
I find this utterly appalling behaviour from a co-chair of a working group, I didn't reach out to you, you weren't even in the thread at all.
As a Co-Chair I didn't want to jump into the mix on the mailing list,
also this: that's why I'm reaching out to you directly.
I mean that is sort of the point of co-chairs generally speaking but yeah it is going to look bad if you are trying to sell something, because it is bad.
(mainly towards chair team and aa-wg chairs) A co-chair of a working group should absolutely be warned or removed if they abuse their position to sell their services.
I also somehow doubt that this is the first time, I could be wrong, but idk why this would be the first time.
I hate it when for example Cogent sends me emails trying to sell me services despite me never having contacted them (outside of replying saying I am not interested). But this is more like if the Cogent sales people were co-chairs of the db-wg.
Also with a subject like "RIPE AA-WG discussion" I initially thought it was actually about something I said or whatever, in his role as co-chair, it didn't appear like it was a sales email.
I have also CC'd the aa-wg and ripe list as this is too appalling to be held private.
-Cynthia
On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 5:50 PM Tobias Knecht <tk@abusix.com> wrote:
Hello Cynthia,
my name is Tobias. I'm a Co-Chair of the Anti-Abuse Working Group and also Founder and CEO of Abusix.
As a Co-Chair I didn't want to jump into the mix on the mailing list, that's why I'm reaching out to you directly.
We at Abusix run Abuse Desk for dozens of Service Providers of any size and any type of product. From Cloud to DC-Services, Cable, and so on.
Happy to jump on a call and answer the questions you have and tell you about how our clients handle those things.
Feel free to reach out via email or just pick a time in my calendar: https://calendly.com/tobias-knecht/30min
Thanks and stay safe.
Tobias
--
Tobias Knecht
Founder & CEO
T.
+49 170 455 98 45
[image: My Logo]
CONFIDENTIALITY This email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the named recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to another person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium.
Hi Cynthia I am replying as a netizen, not in my capacity as DB-WG co chair. I recently had some ideas on abuse issues. Tobias offered his help and advice to me in exactly the same way as he has done with you. He suggested, if I wanted to chat with him about my ideas, I schedule a video call with him. I did that and found his advice extremely useful. This is how Tobias works. He is a busy guy but still offers his time freely to give advice to others in the industry. Tobias isn't the public face of the AA-WG chair team. Some people may not know what he does. If you are offering advice it is helpful if people have some idea of your background and experience. I don't see that as a marketing statement. cheers denis On Mon, 22 Feb 2021 at 18:23, Cynthia Revström via anti-abuse-wg < anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net> wrote:
It is possible but I highly doubt it.
We at Abusix run Abuse Desk for dozens of Service Providers of any size and any type of product. From Cloud to DC-Services, Cable, and so on.
That sounds so much like marketing and irrelevant if it wasn't. Also if it wasn't marketing, why would he ask for me to schedule a video call?
Once again I could be wrong, and if I am, I am sorry, but I can't see how this isn't marketing.
-Cynthia
On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 6:18 PM Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net> wrote:
I think you totally misread his mail. It reads to me as a proposal to help you understand the processes used by many providers, not as a sales pitch.
Best, -- Volker A. Greimann General Counsel and Policy Manager *KEY-SYSTEMS GMBH*
T: +49 6894 9396901 M: +49 6894 9396851 F: +49 6894 9396851 W: www.key-systems.net
Key-Systems GmbH is a company registered at the local court of Saarbruecken, Germany with the registration no. HR B 18835 CEO: Oliver Fries and Robert Birkner
Part of the CentralNic Group PLC (LON: CNIC) a company registered in England and Wales with company number 8576358.
This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended only for the person(s) directly addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, transmission, distribution, or other forms of dissemination is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete this email with any files that may be attached.
On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 6:12 PM Cynthia Revström via anti-abuse-wg < anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net> wrote:
Hi,
(intro) Tobias Knecht sent me an email (which this is a reply to) abusing his position as co-chair in order to try to sell me services based on what I said on a mailing list.
(mainly towards Tobias) Replying to me based on a mailing list post in order to try to sell me services is bad enough. To do it as a co-chair and then to use the fact that you are co-chair as a selling point is much worse.
I find this utterly appalling behaviour from a co-chair of a working group, I didn't reach out to you, you weren't even in the thread at all.
As a Co-Chair I didn't want to jump into the mix on the mailing list,
also this: that's why I'm reaching out to you directly.
I mean that is sort of the point of co-chairs generally speaking but yeah it is going to look bad if you are trying to sell something, because it is bad.
(mainly towards chair team and aa-wg chairs) A co-chair of a working group should absolutely be warned or removed if they abuse their position to sell their services.
I also somehow doubt that this is the first time, I could be wrong, but idk why this would be the first time.
I hate it when for example Cogent sends me emails trying to sell me services despite me never having contacted them (outside of replying saying I am not interested). But this is more like if the Cogent sales people were co-chairs of the db-wg.
Also with a subject like "RIPE AA-WG discussion" I initially thought it was actually about something I said or whatever, in his role as co-chair, it didn't appear like it was a sales email.
I have also CC'd the aa-wg and ripe list as this is too appalling to be held private.
-Cynthia
On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 5:50 PM Tobias Knecht <tk@abusix.com> wrote:
Hello Cynthia,
my name is Tobias. I'm a Co-Chair of the Anti-Abuse Working Group and also Founder and CEO of Abusix.
As a Co-Chair I didn't want to jump into the mix on the mailing list, that's why I'm reaching out to you directly.
We at Abusix run Abuse Desk for dozens of Service Providers of any size and any type of product. From Cloud to DC-Services, Cable, and so on.
Happy to jump on a call and answer the questions you have and tell you about how our clients handle those things.
Feel free to reach out via email or just pick a time in my calendar: https://calendly.com/tobias-knecht/30min
Thanks and stay safe.
Tobias
--
Tobias Knecht
Founder & CEO
T.
+49 170 455 98 45
[image: My Logo]
CONFIDENTIALITY This email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the named recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to another person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium.
Cynthia, If you got the impression of me trying to sell you something, I apologize. My intention was to help you answer your genuine question and give you my experience on how dozens of Abuse Desk Operators handle this day in, day out. Those real-world best practices differ fundamentally from what some Security Researchers and some Anti Abuse Advocates would love to see implemented real-world best practices. Once again, if this was hitting the wrong buttons I apologize, this was not my intention. Thanks, Tobias -- Tobias Knecht Founder & CEO T. +49 170 455 98 45 abusix.com <https://cloud.letsignit.com/collect/bc/5fc946660b5c6b0008d672f1?p=3QW9LKZRNsNLctpv2M4xw66qtjrDbFHkRfe_Jo_T8nIlQuwLC6zZ9OH0kt1uknMTCaPgfev0DqYl37D4m9Ee4vsbDzR0i3-_vR79jccowDesvdhqrvzXzi6k_yA1omSOmnzd-c_2CqBfYJjJFgV9BQOpBRSRjC8wMv-fT3nwGx3tkMlHQ6jWt4ciVIkA_II6> Book a meeting <https://cloud.letsignit.com/collect/bc/5fc946660b5c6b0008d672f1?p=3QW9LKZRNsNLctpv2M4xw66qtjrDbFHkRfe_Jo_T8nIlQuwLC6zZ9OH0kt1uknMT9SwLHL8nP_FvGHuL1dmuWvzSzogpcTfxgYqITma2NzHMq5pXRQAYjPHEkBYpwTr5FBNOY9SMkZqJWdDoUo-I_A==> [image: My Logo] <https://cloud.letsignit.com/collect/bc/5fc946660b5c6b0008d672f1?p=3QW9LKZRNsNLctpv2M4xw66qtjrDbFHkRfe_Jo_T8nIlQuwLC6zZ9OH0kt1uknMT9SwLHL8nP_FvGHuL1dmuWkBl_vB1ZA4WrZhHQQ6slR_5b_FnETHpRTKihQLpXLRkFBNOY9SMkZqJWdDoUo-I_A==> <https://cloud.letsignit.com/collect/bc/5fc946660b5c6b0008d672f1?p=3QW9LKZRNsNLctpv2M4xw66qtjrDbFHkRfe_Jo_T8nIlQuwLC6zZ9OH0kt1uknMT9SwLHL8nP_FvGHuL1dmuWuwTIYoZ5mdTWmhqltOyd8WxVKbCGLLoqGos1EesYhP7> <https://cloud.letsignit.com/collect/bc/5fc946660b5c6b0008d672f1?p=3QW9LKZRNsNLctpv2M4xw66qtjrDbFHkRfe_Jo_T8nIlQuwLC6zZ9OH0kt1uknMT9SwLHL8nP_FvGHuL1dmuWmVS4sTjl1cJ51NN-gNCB_rcu1jgPRgfsr52W-kkb52KhFdCjGAFnnZN_nkWEHAE7w==> CONFIDENTIALITY This email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the named recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to another person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 6:10 PM Cynthia Revström <me@cynthia.re> wrote:
Hi,
(intro) Tobias Knecht sent me an email (which this is a reply to) abusing his position as co-chair in order to try to sell me services based on what I said on a mailing list.
(mainly towards Tobias) Replying to me based on a mailing list post in order to try to sell me services is bad enough. To do it as a co-chair and then to use the fact that you are co-chair as a selling point is much worse.
I find this utterly appalling behaviour from a co-chair of a working group, I didn't reach out to you, you weren't even in the thread at all.
As a Co-Chair I didn't want to jump into the mix on the mailing list,
also this: that's why I'm reaching out to you directly.
I mean that is sort of the point of co-chairs generally speaking but yeah it is going to look bad if you are trying to sell something, because it is bad.
(mainly towards chair team and aa-wg chairs) A co-chair of a working group should absolutely be warned or removed if they abuse their position to sell their services.
I also somehow doubt that this is the first time, I could be wrong, but idk why this would be the first time.
I hate it when for example Cogent sends me emails trying to sell me services despite me never having contacted them (outside of replying saying I am not interested). But this is more like if the Cogent sales people were co-chairs of the db-wg.
Also with a subject like "RIPE AA-WG discussion" I initially thought it was actually about something I said or whatever, in his role as co-chair, it didn't appear like it was a sales email.
I have also CC'd the aa-wg and ripe list as this is too appalling to be held private.
-Cynthia
On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 5:50 PM Tobias Knecht <tk@abusix.com> wrote:
Hello Cynthia,
my name is Tobias. I'm a Co-Chair of the Anti-Abuse Working Group and also Founder and CEO of Abusix.
As a Co-Chair I didn't want to jump into the mix on the mailing list, that's why I'm reaching out to you directly.
We at Abusix run Abuse Desk for dozens of Service Providers of any size and any type of product. From Cloud to DC-Services, Cable, and so on.
Happy to jump on a call and answer the questions you have and tell you about how our clients handle those things.
Feel free to reach out via email or just pick a time in my calendar: https://calendly.com/tobias-knecht/30min
Thanks and stay safe.
Tobias
--
Tobias Knecht
Founder & CEO
T.
+49 170 455 98 45
[image: My Logo]
CONFIDENTIALITY This email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the named recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to another person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium.
Hi Tobias, I am very sorry, I messed up and I really shouldn't have come to the conclusion of it for sure being marketing that quickly. I will remember this for any potential future similar scenarios to not repeat it. -Cynthia On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 7:19 PM Tobias Knecht <tk@abusix.com> wrote:
Cynthia,
If you got the impression of me trying to sell you something, I apologize.
My intention was to help you answer your genuine question and give you my experience on how dozens of Abuse Desk Operators handle this day in, day out. Those real-world best practices differ fundamentally from what some Security Researchers and some Anti Abuse Advocates would love to see implemented real-world best practices.
Once again, if this was hitting the wrong buttons I apologize, this was not my intention.
Thanks,
Tobias
--
Tobias Knecht
Founder & CEO
T.
+49 170 455 98 45
[image: My Logo]
CONFIDENTIALITY This email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the named recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to another person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium.
On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 6:10 PM Cynthia Revström <me@cynthia.re> wrote:
Hi,
(intro) Tobias Knecht sent me an email (which this is a reply to) abusing his position as co-chair in order to try to sell me services based on what I said on a mailing list.
(mainly towards Tobias) Replying to me based on a mailing list post in order to try to sell me services is bad enough. To do it as a co-chair and then to use the fact that you are co-chair as a selling point is much worse.
I find this utterly appalling behaviour from a co-chair of a working group, I didn't reach out to you, you weren't even in the thread at all.
As a Co-Chair I didn't want to jump into the mix on the mailing list,
also this: that's why I'm reaching out to you directly.
I mean that is sort of the point of co-chairs generally speaking but yeah it is going to look bad if you are trying to sell something, because it is bad.
(mainly towards chair team and aa-wg chairs) A co-chair of a working group should absolutely be warned or removed if they abuse their position to sell their services.
I also somehow doubt that this is the first time, I could be wrong, but idk why this would be the first time.
I hate it when for example Cogent sends me emails trying to sell me services despite me never having contacted them (outside of replying saying I am not interested). But this is more like if the Cogent sales people were co-chairs of the db-wg.
Also with a subject like "RIPE AA-WG discussion" I initially thought it was actually about something I said or whatever, in his role as co-chair, it didn't appear like it was a sales email.
I have also CC'd the aa-wg and ripe list as this is too appalling to be held private.
-Cynthia
On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 5:50 PM Tobias Knecht <tk@abusix.com> wrote:
Hello Cynthia,
my name is Tobias. I'm a Co-Chair of the Anti-Abuse Working Group and also Founder and CEO of Abusix.
As a Co-Chair I didn't want to jump into the mix on the mailing list, that's why I'm reaching out to you directly.
We at Abusix run Abuse Desk for dozens of Service Providers of any size and any type of product. From Cloud to DC-Services, Cable, and so on.
Happy to jump on a call and answer the questions you have and tell you about how our clients handle those things.
Feel free to reach out via email or just pick a time in my calendar: https://calendly.com/tobias-knecht/30min
Thanks and stay safe.
Tobias
--
Tobias Knecht
Founder & CEO
T.
+49 170 455 98 45
[image: My Logo]
CONFIDENTIALITY This email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the named recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to another person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium.
Hi Cynthia No worries. All good. Thanks, Tobias Tobias Knecht Founder & CEO T. +49 170 455 98 45 abusix.com <https://cloud.letsignit.com/collect/bc/5fc946660b5c6b0008d672f1?p=3QW9LKZRNsNLctpv2M4xw66qtjrDbFHkRfe_Jo_T8nIlQuwLC6zZ9OH0kt1uknMTCaPgfev0DqYl37D4m9Ee4vsbDzR0i3-_vR79jccowDesvdhqrvzXzi6k_yA1omSOmnzd-c_2CqBfYJjJFgV9BQOpBRSRjC8wMv-fT3nwGx3tkMlHQ6jWt4ciVIkA_II6> Book a meeting <https://cloud.letsignit.com/collect/bc/5fc946660b5c6b0008d672f1?p=3QW9LKZRNsNLctpv2M4xw66qtjrDbFHkRfe_Jo_T8nIlQuwLC6zZ9OH0kt1uknMT9SwLHL8nP_FvGHuL1dmuWvzSzogpcTfxgYqITma2NzHMq5pXRQAYjPHEkBYpwTr5FBNOY9SMkZqJWdDoUo-I_A==> [image: My Logo] <https://cloud.letsignit.com/collect/bc/5fc946660b5c6b0008d672f1?p=3QW9LKZRNsNLctpv2M4xw66qtjrDbFHkRfe_Jo_T8nIlQuwLC6zZ9OH0kt1uknMT9SwLHL8nP_FvGHuL1dmuWkBl_vB1ZA4WrZhHQQ6slR_5b_FnETHpRTKihQLpXLRkFBNOY9SMkZqJWdDoUo-I_A==> <https://cloud.letsignit.com/collect/bc/5fc946660b5c6b0008d672f1?p=3QW9LKZRNsNLctpv2M4xw66qtjrDbFHkRfe_Jo_T8nIlQuwLC6zZ9OH0kt1uknMT9SwLHL8nP_FvGHuL1dmuWuwTIYoZ5mdTWmhqltOyd8WxVKbCGLLoqGos1EesYhP7> <https://cloud.letsignit.com/collect/bc/5fc946660b5c6b0008d672f1?p=3QW9LKZRNsNLctpv2M4xw66qtjrDbFHkRfe_Jo_T8nIlQuwLC6zZ9OH0kt1uknMT9SwLHL8nP_FvGHuL1dmuWmVS4sTjl1cJ51NN-gNCB_rcu1jgPRgfsr52W-kkb52KhFdCjGAFnnZN_nkWEHAE7w==> CONFIDENTIALITY This email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the named recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to another person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 11:46 AM Cynthia Revström <me@cynthia.re> wrote:
Hi Tobias,
I am very sorry, I messed up and I really shouldn't have come to the conclusion of it for sure being marketing that quickly. I will remember this for any potential future similar scenarios to not repeat it.
-Cynthia
On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 7:19 PM Tobias Knecht <tk@abusix.com> wrote:
Cynthia,
If you got the impression of me trying to sell you something, I apologize.
My intention was to help you answer your genuine question and give you my experience on how dozens of Abuse Desk Operators handle this day in, day out. Those real-world best practices differ fundamentally from what some Security Researchers and some Anti Abuse Advocates would love to see implemented real-world best practices.
Once again, if this was hitting the wrong buttons I apologize, this was not my intention.
Thanks,
Tobias
--
Tobias Knecht
Founder & CEO
T.
+49 170 455 98 45
[image: My Logo]
CONFIDENTIALITY This email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the named recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to another person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium.
On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 6:10 PM Cynthia Revström <me@cynthia.re> wrote:
Hi,
(intro) Tobias Knecht sent me an email (which this is a reply to) abusing his position as co-chair in order to try to sell me services based on what I said on a mailing list.
(mainly towards Tobias) Replying to me based on a mailing list post in order to try to sell me services is bad enough. To do it as a co-chair and then to use the fact that you are co-chair as a selling point is much worse.
I find this utterly appalling behaviour from a co-chair of a working group, I didn't reach out to you, you weren't even in the thread at all.
As a Co-Chair I didn't want to jump into the mix on the mailing list,
also this: that's why I'm reaching out to you directly.
I mean that is sort of the point of co-chairs generally speaking but yeah it is going to look bad if you are trying to sell something, because it is bad.
(mainly towards chair team and aa-wg chairs) A co-chair of a working group should absolutely be warned or removed if they abuse their position to sell their services.
I also somehow doubt that this is the first time, I could be wrong, but idk why this would be the first time.
I hate it when for example Cogent sends me emails trying to sell me services despite me never having contacted them (outside of replying saying I am not interested). But this is more like if the Cogent sales people were co-chairs of the db-wg.
Also with a subject like "RIPE AA-WG discussion" I initially thought it was actually about something I said or whatever, in his role as co-chair, it didn't appear like it was a sales email.
I have also CC'd the aa-wg and ripe list as this is too appalling to be held private.
-Cynthia
On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 5:50 PM Tobias Knecht <tk@abusix.com> wrote:
Hello Cynthia,
my name is Tobias. I'm a Co-Chair of the Anti-Abuse Working Group and also Founder and CEO of Abusix.
As a Co-Chair I didn't want to jump into the mix on the mailing list, that's why I'm reaching out to you directly.
We at Abusix run Abuse Desk for dozens of Service Providers of any size and any type of product. From Cloud to DC-Services, Cable, and so on.
Happy to jump on a call and answer the questions you have and tell you about how our clients handle those things.
Feel free to reach out via email or just pick a time in my calendar: https://calendly.com/tobias-knecht/30min
Thanks and stay safe.
Tobias
--
Tobias Knecht
Founder & CEO
T.
+49 170 455 98 45
[image: My Logo]
CONFIDENTIALITY This email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the named recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to another person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium.
participants (5)
-
Cynthia Revström -
denis walker -
Fearghas Mckay -
Tobias Knecht -
Volker Greimann