-------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] RBL policy Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 10:51:40 +0000 From: HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker <svenk@xs4all.nl> Organization: Republic CyberBunker To: Simon Forster <simon-lists@ldml.com> On 30 ينا, 2017 ص 09:39, Simon Forster wrote:
On 30 Jan 2017, at 06:13, ox <andre@ox.co.za> wrote:
Hello All,
May I please solicit some comments about Abuse Block lists (Without detracting from RFC 5782 and RFC 6471 or : https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-409 )
Firstly, the background for the start of this thread is simply: As the use of machine learning technology is now also applied and adapted for the use of cyber criminals (including spammers, scammers, etc) the rules and what is socially acceptable is and has changed. Global politics, protectionism, nationalism and the other 'isms' are also causing change.
Considering that DNSBL tech is "reactive" (after he abuse) This statement appears to be exclusionary — and is one often levelled against DNSBLs. All DNSBLs are not wholly reactive.
Firstly, one needs to acknowledge that all DNSBLs are not they same.
Secondly, some listings in some DNSBLs are proactive. i.e. Made before abuse is seen. As I work for the commercial arm of Spamhaus, I know their offerings quite well and can confidently state that some of the Spamhaus block lists contain proactive and/or precautionary listings.
to be exact: the criminal organisation spamhaus their illegal blacklists effected some 20 million ips on our last scan of their entire database contents. (although that's a bit hard to do, as named kept crashing running 24 cores of gethostbyname() on 10ge , so we may have missed a few million here and there) at a simultanious portscan of the entire ipv4 internet, it turned out
there were only some 200000 smtp servers left however.
that leads to the conclusion that 99% of the listings is purely there for blackmail purposes, and has nothing to do with your silly old SMTP protocol AT ALL. the only reason to list those others is to put pressure on people to 1: spend manhours on interacting with the (non-sollicited) spamhaus 'organisation' and 2: illegally force people into breach of contract with their clients.
listing sales department networks of transit carriers to breach national carriers and connected hosting farms into breach of contract with a customer, of which steve linford does not like the CONTENT on the website, kinda, fucks up statistics ay. face it: smtp is dead, and needs no 'protection' at all.. also ip addresses identify nodes in a network, not people. also: forcing people to contact spamhaus, causes manhours to be spent on communication, which is extortion, as we have no contractual relation with spamhaus whatsoever, so trying to force carriers and isps into communication with them, is a crime. (although only punishable by 3 months in .nl ;) the 'we don't block anything' argument doesn't go. spamhaus advertises the fact that they have influence on roughly 1/3rd of mail delivery so they know damn well that by entering an ip on their list, of a sales department of a transit carrier, like they did with at least: tata and tiscali, that they are deliberately obstructing data communications and therefore violating any and all computer sabotage acts. as for the way in which they advertise their BGP feed. let's just say that we have BGP feeds as well. and we will use them AGAINST spamhaus again. (it's called an internet exchange you dummy ;) "we advise our peers to nullroute traffic to spamhaus or give a preferred route to one of our dns servers which always returns 127.0.0.2" :P we still kinda had it with their fuckery. they simply should roll over and die. if not they should get some help. fun fact: with all the 110 competing 'auto list / auto-de-list' dnsbls in the world, there never was -any- issue whatsoever... having cghq jew linford crying in the jew press that we would be 'spammers' may have worked to spread slander... however fact of the matter is that smtp is loong dead and we usually don't even read it, sometimes don't have servers for it, and in any case, blocked port 25 on all our networks by default ever since 2004. lolol. (who the FUCK still uses smtp anyway, and why the hell would 'abuse' of it be an excuse to disconnect paying customers - if any - as we certainly never could FIND any "spammers" that could afford our fees ;) what we see here is a CGHQ JTRIG operation (Spamhaus) trying to enforce UK laws and trade policy upon the rest of the internet, it has nothing to do with 'abuse' spamhaus is a political operation run by the jews at CGHQ. stophaus is a colation of cyberdivisions of armies fighting them. china, russia, and the republic cyberbunker have every right in the world to just nuke linford off the surface of this planet. and that's probably just what we should have done in the first fucking place.
I imagine SURBL does likewise. Other block lists probably have similar policies / inputs. Simon
The block time policies of RBLs *********************************** There are two main types of block lists: No automatic removal and automatic removal
Is the policy to auto de-list after a period of time, still accurate?
Considering the change in abuse patterns and technology, should the block times be increased or de-creased?
Does society require more specialist non auto de-list DNSBLs? (Would it be helpful to law enforcement to have a "child pornography" dnsbl? or a phish dnsbl? - or is the reactive time to high in order for dynamic ipv4? - but on ipv6 allocations to devices could be more 'permanent'? etc)
Andre
let's make one thing absolutely clear: if your 1960s instant messenger of choice (smtp) doesn't have a friends list, therefore is full of strangers sending you offers for viagra... that is YOUR problem. you either fix YOUR protocol of choice to have, for example, a friends list, OR you gtfo and stop using it.. none of which is OUR problem.. we OWN the internet, we have nothing to do with whatever the hell goes on on your silly old protocol. it's not even 'abuse'. if you get UCE it's working as documented. hate to break the news to you but we won't pull any single plugs just people advertise some urls in antique smtp shit... lolol. just let it die. problem solved. On 30 ينا, 2017 ص 10:53, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker wrote:
-------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] RBL policy Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 10:51:40 +0000 From: HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker <svenk@xs4all.nl> Organization: Republic CyberBunker To: Simon Forster <simon-lists@ldml.com>
On 30 ينا, 2017 ص 09:39, Simon Forster wrote:
On 30 Jan 2017, at 06:13, ox<andre@ox.co.za> wrote:
Hello All,
May I please solicit some comments about Abuse Block lists (Without detracting from RFC 5782 and RFC 6471 or : https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-409 )
Firstly, the background for the start of this thread is simply: As the use of machine learning technology is now also applied and adapted for the use of cyber criminals (including spammers, scammers, etc) the rules and what is socially acceptable is and has changed. Global politics, protectionism, nationalism and the other 'isms' are also causing change.
Considering that DNSBL tech is "reactive" (after he abuse) This statement appears to be exclusionary — and is one often levelled against DNSBLs. All DNSBLs are not wholly reactive.
Firstly, one needs to acknowledge that all DNSBLs are not they same.
Secondly, some listings in some DNSBLs are proactive. i.e. Made before abuse is seen. As I work for the commercial arm of Spamhaus, I know their offerings quite well and can confidently state that some of the Spamhaus block lists contain proactive and/or precautionary listings.
to be exact: the criminal organisation spamhaus their illegal blacklists effected some 20 million ips on our last scan of their entire database contents. (although that's a bit hard to do, as named kept crashing running 24 cores of gethostbyname() on 10ge , so we may have missed a few million here and there) at a simultanious portscan of the entire ipv4 internet, it turned out there were only some 200000 smtp servers left however. that leads to the conclusion that 99% of the listings is purely there for blackmail purposes, and has nothing to do with your silly old SMTP protocol AT ALL. the only reason to list those others is to put pressure on people to 1: spend manhours on interacting with the (non-sollicited) spamhaus 'organisation' and 2: illegally force people into breach of contract with their clients.
listing sales department networks of transit carriers to breach national carriers and connected hosting farms into breach of contract with a customer, of which steve linford does not like the CONTENT on the website, kinda, fucks up statistics ay.
face it: smtp is dead, and needs no 'protection' at all.. also ip addresses identify nodes in a network, not people.
also: forcing people to contact spamhaus, causes manhours to be spent on communication, which is extortion, as we have no contractual relation with spamhaus whatsoever, so trying to force carriers and isps into communication with them, is a crime. (although only punishable by 3 months in .nl ;)
the 'we don't block anything' argument doesn't go. spamhaus advertises the fact that they have influence on roughly 1/3rd of mail delivery so they know damn well that by entering an ip on their list, of a sales department of a transit carrier, like they did with at least: tata and tiscali, that they are deliberately obstructing data communications and therefore violating any and all computer sabotage acts.
as for the way in which they advertise their BGP feed. let's just say that we have BGP feeds as well. and we will use them AGAINST spamhaus again. (it's called an internet exchange you dummy ;) "we advise our peers to nullroute traffic to spamhaus or give a preferred route to one of our dns servers which always returns 127.0.0.2" :P
we still kinda had it with their fuckery.
they simply should roll over and die. if not they should get some help.
fun fact: with all the 110 competing 'auto list / auto-de-list' dnsbls in the world, there never was -any- issue whatsoever...
having cghq jew linford crying in the jew press that we would be 'spammers' may have worked to spread slander... however fact of the matter is that smtp is loong dead and we usually don't even read it, sometimes don't have servers for it, and in any case, blocked port 25 on all our networks by default ever since 2004. lolol. (who the FUCK still uses smtp anyway, and why the hell would 'abuse' of it be an excuse to disconnect paying customers - if any - as we certainly never could FIND any "spammers" that could afford our fees ;)
what we see here is a CGHQ JTRIG operation (Spamhaus) trying to enforce UK laws and trade policy upon the rest of the internet, it has nothing to do with 'abuse' spamhaus is a political operation run by the jews at CGHQ.
stophaus is a colation of cyberdivisions of armies fighting them. china, russia, and the republic cyberbunker have every right in the world to just nuke linford off the surface of this planet. and that's probably just what we should have done in the first fucking place.
I imagine SURBL does likewise. Other block lists probably have similar policies / inputs. Simon
The block time policies of RBLs *********************************** There are two main types of block lists: No automatic removal and automatic removal
Is the policy to auto de-list after a period of time, still accurate?
Considering the change in abuse patterns and technology, should the block times be increased or de-creased?
Does society require more specialist non auto de-list DNSBLs? (Would it be helpful to law enforcement to have a "child pornography" dnsbl? or a phish dnsbl? - or is the reactive time to high in order for dynamic ipv4? - but on ipv6 allocations to devices could be more 'permanent'? etc)
Andre
And you earn money on those who send offers for viagra. Let's talk turkey. On 01/30/17 14:00, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker wrote:
let's make one thing absolutely clear: if your 1960s instant messenger of choice (smtp) doesn't have a friends list, therefore is full of strangers sending you offers for viagra... that is YOUR problem. you either fix YOUR protocol of choice to have, for example, a friends list, OR you gtfo and stop using it.. none of which is OUR problem.. we OWN the internet, we have nothing to do with whatever the hell goes on on your silly old protocol. it's not even 'abuse'. if you get UCE it's working as documented.
hate to break the news to you but we won't pull any single plugs just people advertise some urls in antique smtp shit... lolol. just let it die. problem solved.
On 30 ينا, 2017 ص 10:53, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker wrote:
-------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] RBL policy Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 10:51:40 +0000 From: HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker <svenk@xs4all.nl> Organization: Republic CyberBunker To: Simon Forster <simon-lists@ldml.com>
On 30 ينا, 2017 ص 09:39, Simon Forster wrote:
On 30 Jan 2017, at 06:13, ox<andre@ox.co.za> wrote:
Hello All,
May I please solicit some comments about Abuse Block lists (Without detracting from RFC 5782 and RFC 6471 or : https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-409 )
Firstly, the background for the start of this thread is simply: As the use of machine learning technology is now also applied and adapted for the use of cyber criminals (including spammers, scammers, etc) the rules and what is socially acceptable is and has changed. Global politics, protectionism, nationalism and the other 'isms' are also causing change.
Considering that DNSBL tech is "reactive" (after he abuse) This statement appears to be exclusionary — and is one often levelled against DNSBLs. All DNSBLs are not wholly reactive.
Firstly, one needs to acknowledge that all DNSBLs are not they same.
Secondly, some listings in some DNSBLs are proactive. i.e. Made before abuse is seen. As I work for the commercial arm of Spamhaus, I know their offerings quite well and can confidently state that some of the Spamhaus block lists contain proactive and/or precautionary listings.
to be exact: the criminal organisation spamhaus their illegal blacklists effected some 20 million ips on our last scan of their entire database contents. (although that's a bit hard to do, as named kept crashing running 24 cores of gethostbyname() on 10ge , so we may have missed a few million here and there) at a simultanious portscan of the entire ipv4 internet, it turned out there were only some 200000 smtp servers left however. that leads to the conclusion that 99% of the listings is purely there for blackmail purposes, and has nothing to do with your silly old SMTP protocol AT ALL. the only reason to list those others is to put pressure on people to 1: spend manhours on interacting with the (non-sollicited) spamhaus 'organisation' and 2: illegally force people into breach of contract with their clients.
listing sales department networks of transit carriers to breach national carriers and connected hosting farms into breach of contract with a customer, of which steve linford does not like the CONTENT on the website, kinda, fucks up statistics ay.
face it: smtp is dead, and needs no 'protection' at all.. also ip addresses identify nodes in a network, not people.
also: forcing people to contact spamhaus, causes manhours to be spent on communication, which is extortion, as we have no contractual relation with spamhaus whatsoever, so trying to force carriers and isps into communication with them, is a crime. (although only punishable by 3 months in .nl ;)
the 'we don't block anything' argument doesn't go. spamhaus advertises the fact that they have influence on roughly 1/3rd of mail delivery so they know damn well that by entering an ip on their list, of a sales department of a transit carrier, like they did with at least: tata and tiscali, that they are deliberately obstructing data communications and therefore violating any and all computer sabotage acts.
as for the way in which they advertise their BGP feed. let's just say that we have BGP feeds as well. and we will use them AGAINST spamhaus again. (it's called an internet exchange you dummy ;) "we advise our peers to nullroute traffic to spamhaus or give a preferred route to one of our dns servers which always returns 127.0.0.2" :P
we still kinda had it with their fuckery.
they simply should roll over and die. if not they should get some help.
fun fact: with all the 110 competing 'auto list / auto-de-list' dnsbls in the world, there never was -any- issue whatsoever...
having cghq jew linford crying in the jew press that we would be 'spammers' may have worked to spread slander... however fact of the matter is that smtp is loong dead and we usually don't even read it, sometimes don't have servers for it, and in any case, blocked port 25 on all our networks by default ever since 2004. lolol. (who the FUCK still uses smtp anyway, and why the hell would 'abuse' of it be an excuse to disconnect paying customers - if any - as we certainly never could FIND any "spammers" that could afford our fees ;)
what we see here is a CGHQ JTRIG operation (Spamhaus) trying to enforce UK laws and trade policy upon the rest of the internet, it has nothing to do with 'abuse' spamhaus is a political operation run by the jews at CGHQ.
stophaus is a colation of cyberdivisions of armies fighting them. china, russia, and the republic cyberbunker have every right in the world to just nuke linford off the surface of this planet. and that's probably just what we should have done in the first fucking place.
I imagine SURBL does likewise. Other block lists probably have similar policies / inputs. Simon
The block time policies of RBLs *********************************** There are two main types of block lists: No automatic removal and automatic removal
Is the policy to auto de-list after a period of time, still accurate?
Considering the change in abuse patterns and technology, should the block times be increased or de-creased?
Does society require more specialist non auto de-list DNSBLs? (Would it be helpful to law enforcement to have a "child pornography" dnsbl? or a phish dnsbl? - or is the reactive time to high in order for dynamic ipv4? - but on ipv6 allocations to devices could be more 'permanent'? etc)
Andre
-- Kind regards, CTO at *Foton Telecom CJSC* Tel.: +7 (499) 679-99-99 AS42861 on PeeringDB <http://as42861.peeringdb.com/>, Qrator <https://radar.qrator.net/as42861>, BGP.HE.NET <http://bgp.he.net/AS42861>
Please ban this person for insults and obscene language. There should be no place for this kind of behavior in the RIPE's mailing list. Thanks. On 01/30/17 13:53, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker wrote:
-------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] RBL policy Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 10:51:40 +0000 From: HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker <svenk@xs4all.nl> Organization: Republic CyberBunker To: Simon Forster <simon-lists@ldml.com>
On 30 ينا, 2017 ص 09:39, Simon Forster wrote:
On 30 Jan 2017, at 06:13, ox<andre@ox.co.za> wrote:
Hello All,
May I please solicit some comments about Abuse Block lists (Without detracting from RFC 5782 and RFC 6471 or : https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-409 )
Firstly, the background for the start of this thread is simply: As the use of machine learning technology is now also applied and adapted for the use of cyber criminals (including spammers, scammers, etc) the rules and what is socially acceptable is and has changed. Global politics, protectionism, nationalism and the other 'isms' are also causing change.
Considering that DNSBL tech is "reactive" (after he abuse) This statement appears to be exclusionary — and is one often levelled against DNSBLs. All DNSBLs are not wholly reactive.
Firstly, one needs to acknowledge that all DNSBLs are not they same.
Secondly, some listings in some DNSBLs are proactive. i.e. Made before abuse is seen. As I work for the commercial arm of Spamhaus, I know their offerings quite well and can confidently state that some of the Spamhaus block lists contain proactive and/or precautionary listings.
to be exact: the criminal organisation spamhaus their illegal blacklists effected some 20 million ips on our last scan of their entire database contents. (although that's a bit hard to do, as named kept crashing running 24 cores of gethostbyname() on 10ge , so we may have missed a few million here and there) at a simultanious portscan of the entire ipv4 internet, it turned out there were only some 200000 smtp servers left however. that leads to the conclusion that 99% of the listings is purely there for blackmail purposes, and has nothing to do with your silly old SMTP protocol AT ALL. the only reason to list those others is to put pressure on people to 1: spend manhours on interacting with the (non-sollicited) spamhaus 'organisation' and 2: illegally force people into breach of contract with their clients.
listing sales department networks of transit carriers to breach national carriers and connected hosting farms into breach of contract with a customer, of which steve linford does not like the CONTENT on the website, kinda, fucks up statistics ay.
face it: smtp is dead, and needs no 'protection' at all.. also ip addresses identify nodes in a network, not people.
also: forcing people to contact spamhaus, causes manhours to be spent on communication, which is extortion, as we have no contractual relation with spamhaus whatsoever, so trying to force carriers and isps into communication with them, is a crime. (although only punishable by 3 months in .nl ;)
the 'we don't block anything' argument doesn't go. spamhaus advertises the fact that they have influence on roughly 1/3rd of mail delivery so they know damn well that by entering an ip on their list, of a sales department of a transit carrier, like they did with at least: tata and tiscali, that they are deliberately obstructing data communications and therefore violating any and all computer sabotage acts.
as for the way in which they advertise their BGP feed. let's just say that we have BGP feeds as well. and we will use them AGAINST spamhaus again. (it's called an internet exchange you dummy ;) "we advise our peers to nullroute traffic to spamhaus or give a preferred route to one of our dns servers which always returns 127.0.0.2" :P
we still kinda had it with their fuckery.
they simply should roll over and die. if not they should get some help.
fun fact: with all the 110 competing 'auto list / auto-de-list' dnsbls in the world, there never was -any- issue whatsoever...
having cghq jew linford crying in the jew press that we would be 'spammers' may have worked to spread slander... however fact of the matter is that smtp is loong dead and we usually don't even read it, sometimes don't have servers for it, and in any case, blocked port 25 on all our networks by default ever since 2004. lolol. (who the FUCK still uses smtp anyway, and why the hell would 'abuse' of it be an excuse to disconnect paying customers - if any - as we certainly never could FIND any "spammers" that could afford our fees ;)
what we see here is a CGHQ JTRIG operation (Spamhaus) trying to enforce UK laws and trade policy upon the rest of the internet, it has nothing to do with 'abuse' spamhaus is a political operation run by the jews at CGHQ.
stophaus is a colation of cyberdivisions of armies fighting them. china, russia, and the republic cyberbunker have every right in the world to just nuke linford off the surface of this planet. and that's probably just what we should have done in the first fucking place.
I imagine SURBL does likewise. Other block lists probably have similar policies / inputs. Simon
The block time policies of RBLs *********************************** There are two main types of block lists: No automatic removal and automatic removal
Is the policy to auto de-list after a period of time, still accurate?
Considering the change in abuse patterns and technology, should the block times be increased or de-creased?
Does society require more specialist non auto de-list DNSBLs? (Would it be helpful to law enforcement to have a "child pornography" dnsbl? or a phish dnsbl? - or is the reactive time to high in order for dynamic ipv4? - but on ipv6 allocations to devices could be more 'permanent'? etc)
Andre
-- Kind regards, CTO at *Foton Telecom CJSC* Tel.: +7 (499) 679-99-99 AS42861 on PeeringDB <http://as42861.peeringdb.com/>, Qrator <https://radar.qrator.net/as42861>, BGP.HE.NET <http://bgp.he.net/AS42861>
omg i just wrote a protocol of which the deamon crashes if people send "CRASH" to it... let's make a blacklist of all ips that ever sent CRASH to it and call it 'abuse'.. lol. that's basically your argument, except for smtp not even crashing, it's functioning as specified if it's broadcasting 'spam'. deal with it.. btw what are you... communists... (probably... uk cghq... lol) ? also keep 'blacklists' of mail companies that can't push advertisements into your mailbox? lol now as for this 'commercial branch' of spamhaus you would be working for... would that be: steve linford and myra peters avinuda de colle sur loup, colle sur loup, france steve linford and myra peters viola 13 puerto d' andratx spain that non-profit BUT NOT ALLOWED TO TRADE ltd which has no assets at all? the commercial ltd, which lacks office addresses and a trade register entry in switserland, or one of the 5 IBC's and other offshores pumping CGHQ's cash into this great censorship tool. btw you still never got a handelsregistereintrag in switserland... conclusion: you can't 'work' anywhere, as none of them can actually legally trade and pay you. (except for the vague offshores) CGHQ better go and do the homework on their black ops pretending to 'fight spam and abuse' and in the meanwhile just enforce uk trade policy down the throats of non-uk-nationals... so at least the fucking paperwork checks out. lolol. (we do a slightly better job at that in our organisations, i must say our ltds usually DO have a mailbox that works ;) all lirs: just nullroute the fuckers... i think we can agree we have all had it with 'spamhaus' ay.. On 30 ينا, 2017 ص 10:53, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker wrote:
-------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] RBL policy Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 10:51:40 +0000 From: HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker <svenk@xs4all.nl> Organization: Republic CyberBunker To: Simon Forster <simon-lists@ldml.com>
On 30 ينا, 2017 ص 09:39, Simon Forster wrote:
On 30 Jan 2017, at 06:13, ox<andre@ox.co.za> wrote:
Hello All,
May I please solicit some comments about Abuse Block lists (Without detracting from RFC 5782 and RFC 6471 or : https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-409 )
Firstly, the background for the start of this thread is simply: As the use of machine learning technology is now also applied and adapted for the use of cyber criminals (including spammers, scammers, etc) the rules and what is socially acceptable is and has changed. Global politics, protectionism, nationalism and the other 'isms' are also causing change.
Considering that DNSBL tech is "reactive" (after he abuse) This statement appears to be exclusionary — and is one often levelled against DNSBLs. All DNSBLs are not wholly reactive.
Firstly, one needs to acknowledge that all DNSBLs are not they same.
Secondly, some listings in some DNSBLs are proactive. i.e. Made before abuse is seen. As I work for the commercial arm of Spamhaus, I know their offerings quite well and can confidently state that some of the Spamhaus block lists contain proactive and/or precautionary listings.
to be exact: the criminal organisation spamhaus their illegal blacklists effected some 20 million ips on our last scan of their entire database contents. (although that's a bit hard to do, as named kept crashing running 24 cores of gethostbyname() on 10ge , so we may have missed a few million here and there) at a simultanious portscan of the entire ipv4 internet, it turned out there were only some 200000 smtp servers left however. that leads to the conclusion that 99% of the listings is purely there for blackmail purposes, and has nothing to do with your silly old SMTP protocol AT ALL. the only reason to list those others is to put pressure on people to 1: spend manhours on interacting with the (non-sollicited) spamhaus 'organisation' and 2: illegally force people into breach of contract with their clients.
listing sales department networks of transit carriers to breach national carriers and connected hosting farms into breach of contract with a customer, of which steve linford does not like the CONTENT on the website, kinda, fucks up statistics ay.
face it: smtp is dead, and needs no 'protection' at all.. also ip addresses identify nodes in a network, not people.
also: forcing people to contact spamhaus, causes manhours to be spent on communication, which is extortion, as we have no contractual relation with spamhaus whatsoever, so trying to force carriers and isps into communication with them, is a crime. (although only punishable by 3 months in .nl ;)
the 'we don't block anything' argument doesn't go. spamhaus advertises the fact that they have influence on roughly 1/3rd of mail delivery so they know damn well that by entering an ip on their list, of a sales department of a transit carrier, like they did with at least: tata and tiscali, that they are deliberately obstructing data communications and therefore violating any and all computer sabotage acts.
as for the way in which they advertise their BGP feed. let's just say that we have BGP feeds as well. and we will use them AGAINST spamhaus again. (it's called an internet exchange you dummy ;) "we advise our peers to nullroute traffic to spamhaus or give a preferred route to one of our dns servers which always returns 127.0.0.2" :P
we still kinda had it with their fuckery.
they simply should roll over and die. if not they should get some help.
fun fact: with all the 110 competing 'auto list / auto-de-list' dnsbls in the world, there never was -any- issue whatsoever...
having cghq jew linford crying in the jew press that we would be 'spammers' may have worked to spread slander... however fact of the matter is that smtp is loong dead and we usually don't even read it, sometimes don't have servers for it, and in any case, blocked port 25 on all our networks by default ever since 2004. lolol. (who the FUCK still uses smtp anyway, and why the hell would 'abuse' of it be an excuse to disconnect paying customers - if any - as we certainly never could FIND any "spammers" that could afford our fees ;)
what we see here is a CGHQ JTRIG operation (Spamhaus) trying to enforce UK laws and trade policy upon the rest of the internet, it has nothing to do with 'abuse' spamhaus is a political operation run by the jews at CGHQ.
stophaus is a colation of cyberdivisions of armies fighting them. china, russia, and the republic cyberbunker have every right in the world to just nuke linford off the surface of this planet. and that's probably just what we should have done in the first fucking place.
I imagine SURBL does likewise. Other block lists probably have similar policies / inputs. Simon
The block time policies of RBLs *********************************** There are two main types of block lists: No automatic removal and automatic removal
Is the policy to auto de-list after a period of time, still accurate?
Considering the change in abuse patterns and technology, should the block times be increased or de-creased?
Does society require more specialist non auto de-list DNSBLs? (Would it be helpful to law enforcement to have a "child pornography" dnsbl? or a phish dnsbl? - or is the reactive time to high in order for dynamic ipv4? - but on ipv6 allocations to devices could be more 'permanent'? etc)
Andre
trying to blackmail china into not producing/exporting 'replica rolex'... gee i thought the uk had a customs department to keep those products outside... but appearantly cghq prefers to call it 'spam' to get the chinese industry disconnected lololol. they should basically, just nuke the uk. for spamhaus. lol. On 30 ينا, 2017 ص 10:53, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker wrote:
-------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] RBL policy Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 10:51:40 +0000 From: HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker <svenk@xs4all.nl> Organization: Republic CyberBunker To: Simon Forster <simon-lists@ldml.com>
On 30 ينا, 2017 ص 09:39, Simon Forster wrote:
On 30 Jan 2017, at 06:13, ox<andre@ox.co.za> wrote:
Hello All,
May I please solicit some comments about Abuse Block lists (Without detracting from RFC 5782 and RFC 6471 or : https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-409 )
Firstly, the background for the start of this thread is simply: As the use of machine learning technology is now also applied and adapted for the use of cyber criminals (including spammers, scammers, etc) the rules and what is socially acceptable is and has changed. Global politics, protectionism, nationalism and the other 'isms' are also causing change.
Considering that DNSBL tech is "reactive" (after he abuse) This statement appears to be exclusionary — and is one often levelled against DNSBLs. All DNSBLs are not wholly reactive.
Firstly, one needs to acknowledge that all DNSBLs are not they same.
Secondly, some listings in some DNSBLs are proactive. i.e. Made before abuse is seen. As I work for the commercial arm of Spamhaus, I know their offerings quite well and can confidently state that some of the Spamhaus block lists contain proactive and/or precautionary listings.
to be exact: the criminal organisation spamhaus their illegal blacklists effected some 20 million ips on our last scan of their entire database contents. (although that's a bit hard to do, as named kept crashing running 24 cores of gethostbyname() on 10ge , so we may have missed a few million here and there) at a simultanious portscan of the entire ipv4 internet, it turned out there were only some 200000 smtp servers left however. that leads to the conclusion that 99% of the listings is purely there for blackmail purposes, and has nothing to do with your silly old SMTP protocol AT ALL. the only reason to list those others is to put pressure on people to 1: spend manhours on interacting with the (non-sollicited) spamhaus 'organisation' and 2: illegally force people into breach of contract with their clients.
listing sales department networks of transit carriers to breach national carriers and connected hosting farms into breach of contract with a customer, of which steve linford does not like the CONTENT on the website, kinda, fucks up statistics ay.
face it: smtp is dead, and needs no 'protection' at all.. also ip addresses identify nodes in a network, not people.
also: forcing people to contact spamhaus, causes manhours to be spent on communication, which is extortion, as we have no contractual relation with spamhaus whatsoever, so trying to force carriers and isps into communication with them, is a crime. (although only punishable by 3 months in .nl ;)
the 'we don't block anything' argument doesn't go. spamhaus advertises the fact that they have influence on roughly 1/3rd of mail delivery so they know damn well that by entering an ip on their list, of a sales department of a transit carrier, like they did with at least: tata and tiscali, that they are deliberately obstructing data communications and therefore violating any and all computer sabotage acts.
as for the way in which they advertise their BGP feed. let's just say that we have BGP feeds as well. and we will use them AGAINST spamhaus again. (it's called an internet exchange you dummy ;) "we advise our peers to nullroute traffic to spamhaus or give a preferred route to one of our dns servers which always returns 127.0.0.2" :P
we still kinda had it with their fuckery.
they simply should roll over and die. if not they should get some help.
fun fact: with all the 110 competing 'auto list / auto-de-list' dnsbls in the world, there never was -any- issue whatsoever...
having cghq jew linford crying in the jew press that we would be 'spammers' may have worked to spread slander... however fact of the matter is that smtp is loong dead and we usually don't even read it, sometimes don't have servers for it, and in any case, blocked port 25 on all our networks by default ever since 2004. lolol. (who the FUCK still uses smtp anyway, and why the hell would 'abuse' of it be an excuse to disconnect paying customers - if any - as we certainly never could FIND any "spammers" that could afford our fees ;)
what we see here is a CGHQ JTRIG operation (Spamhaus) trying to enforce UK laws and trade policy upon the rest of the internet, it has nothing to do with 'abuse' spamhaus is a political operation run by the jews at CGHQ.
stophaus is a colation of cyberdivisions of armies fighting them. china, russia, and the republic cyberbunker have every right in the world to just nuke linford off the surface of this planet. and that's probably just what we should have done in the first fucking place.
I imagine SURBL does likewise. Other block lists probably have similar policies / inputs. Simon
The block time policies of RBLs *********************************** There are two main types of block lists: No automatic removal and automatic removal
Is the policy to auto de-list after a period of time, still accurate?
Considering the change in abuse patterns and technology, should the block times be increased or de-creased?
Does society require more specialist non auto de-list DNSBLs? (Would it be helpful to law enforcement to have a "child pornography" dnsbl? or a phish dnsbl? - or is the reactive time to high in order for dynamic ipv4? - but on ipv6 allocations to devices could be more 'permanent'? etc)
Andre
surely such a well known 'non-profit' 'spam fighter' would have offices in switserland the diplomatic attachee of the swiss army to OCSE, or various swiss members of parliament that went looking for it, could find... but nooo.. :P no wonder they never get sued. the letters simply never arrive. On 30 ينا, 2017 ص 10:53, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker wrote:
-------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] RBL policy Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 10:51:40 +0000 From: HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker <svenk@xs4all.nl> Organization: Republic CyberBunker To: Simon Forster <simon-lists@ldml.com>
On 30 ينا, 2017 ص 09:39, Simon Forster wrote:
On 30 Jan 2017, at 06:13, ox<andre@ox.co.za> wrote:
Hello All,
May I please solicit some comments about Abuse Block lists (Without detracting from RFC 5782 and RFC 6471 or : https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-409 )
Firstly, the background for the start of this thread is simply: As the use of machine learning technology is now also applied and adapted for the use of cyber criminals (including spammers, scammers, etc) the rules and what is socially acceptable is and has changed. Global politics, protectionism, nationalism and the other 'isms' are also causing change.
Considering that DNSBL tech is "reactive" (after he abuse) This statement appears to be exclusionary — and is one often levelled against DNSBLs. All DNSBLs are not wholly reactive.
Firstly, one needs to acknowledge that all DNSBLs are not they same.
Secondly, some listings in some DNSBLs are proactive. i.e. Made before abuse is seen. As I work for the commercial arm of Spamhaus, I know their offerings quite well and can confidently state that some of the Spamhaus block lists contain proactive and/or precautionary listings.
to be exact: the criminal organisation spamhaus their illegal blacklists effected some 20 million ips on our last scan of their entire database contents. (although that's a bit hard to do, as named kept crashing running 24 cores of gethostbyname() on 10ge , so we may have missed a few million here and there) at a simultanious portscan of the entire ipv4 internet, it turned out there were only some 200000 smtp servers left however. that leads to the conclusion that 99% of the listings is purely there for blackmail purposes, and has nothing to do with your silly old SMTP protocol AT ALL. the only reason to list those others is to put pressure on people to 1: spend manhours on interacting with the (non-sollicited) spamhaus 'organisation' and 2: illegally force people into breach of contract with their clients.
listing sales department networks of transit carriers to breach national carriers and connected hosting farms into breach of contract with a customer, of which steve linford does not like the CONTENT on the website, kinda, fucks up statistics ay.
face it: smtp is dead, and needs no 'protection' at all.. also ip addresses identify nodes in a network, not people.
also: forcing people to contact spamhaus, causes manhours to be spent on communication, which is extortion, as we have no contractual relation with spamhaus whatsoever, so trying to force carriers and isps into communication with them, is a crime. (although only punishable by 3 months in .nl ;)
the 'we don't block anything' argument doesn't go. spamhaus advertises the fact that they have influence on roughly 1/3rd of mail delivery so they know damn well that by entering an ip on their list, of a sales department of a transit carrier, like they did with at least: tata and tiscali, that they are deliberately obstructing data communications and therefore violating any and all computer sabotage acts.
as for the way in which they advertise their BGP feed. let's just say that we have BGP feeds as well. and we will use them AGAINST spamhaus again. (it's called an internet exchange you dummy ;) "we advise our peers to nullroute traffic to spamhaus or give a preferred route to one of our dns servers which always returns 127.0.0.2" :P
we still kinda had it with their fuckery.
they simply should roll over and die. if not they should get some help.
fun fact: with all the 110 competing 'auto list / auto-de-list' dnsbls in the world, there never was -any- issue whatsoever...
having cghq jew linford crying in the jew press that we would be 'spammers' may have worked to spread slander... however fact of the matter is that smtp is loong dead and we usually don't even read it, sometimes don't have servers for it, and in any case, blocked port 25 on all our networks by default ever since 2004. lolol. (who the FUCK still uses smtp anyway, and why the hell would 'abuse' of it be an excuse to disconnect paying customers - if any - as we certainly never could FIND any "spammers" that could afford our fees ;)
what we see here is a CGHQ JTRIG operation (Spamhaus) trying to enforce UK laws and trade policy upon the rest of the internet, it has nothing to do with 'abuse' spamhaus is a political operation run by the jews at CGHQ.
stophaus is a colation of cyberdivisions of armies fighting them. china, russia, and the republic cyberbunker have every right in the world to just nuke linford off the surface of this planet. and that's probably just what we should have done in the first fucking place.
I imagine SURBL does likewise. Other block lists probably have similar policies / inputs. Simon
The block time policies of RBLs *********************************** There are two main types of block lists: No automatic removal and automatic removal
Is the policy to auto de-list after a period of time, still accurate?
Considering the change in abuse patterns and technology, should the block times be increased or de-creased?
Does society require more specialist non auto de-list DNSBLs? (Would it be helpful to law enforcement to have a "child pornography" dnsbl? or a phish dnsbl? - or is the reactive time to high in order for dynamic ipv4? - but on ipv6 allocations to devices could be more 'permanent'? etc)
Andre
also it's quite vague that when some mossadis rent servers and run an espionage botnet on it (which we happily intercept ourselves ofcourse) - spamhaus somehow magically never lists -that-.. just 'websites on which replica rolex is sold' 'websites on which RUSSIANS accept CREDITCARDS (mind you, with the same payment processor and merchant id for the past 10 years, so far for 'fraud' ;), etc. the intent of spamhaus is very very clear... 'brittain rules the internet'. it has nothing to do with 'spam' or any 'abuse' of either the nagging nerds (spam) type of the real actual type. they also illegally copy/paste data from the ripe whois database btw. of which the terms state; only members and law enforcement... spamhaus is neither (At least not in whichever offshore it is that operates their website ;). On 30 ينا, 2017 ص 10:53, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker wrote:
-------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] RBL policy Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 10:51:40 +0000 From: HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker <svenk@xs4all.nl> Organization: Republic CyberBunker To: Simon Forster <simon-lists@ldml.com>
On 30 ينا, 2017 ص 09:39, Simon Forster wrote:
On 30 Jan 2017, at 06:13, ox<andre@ox.co.za> wrote:
Hello All,
May I please solicit some comments about Abuse Block lists (Without detracting from RFC 5782 and RFC 6471 or : https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-409 )
Firstly, the background for the start of this thread is simply: As the use of machine learning technology is now also applied and adapted for the use of cyber criminals (including spammers, scammers, etc) the rules and what is socially acceptable is and has changed. Global politics, protectionism, nationalism and the other 'isms' are also causing change.
Considering that DNSBL tech is "reactive" (after he abuse) This statement appears to be exclusionary — and is one often levelled against DNSBLs. All DNSBLs are not wholly reactive.
Firstly, one needs to acknowledge that all DNSBLs are not they same.
Secondly, some listings in some DNSBLs are proactive. i.e. Made before abuse is seen. As I work for the commercial arm of Spamhaus, I know their offerings quite well and can confidently state that some of the Spamhaus block lists contain proactive and/or precautionary listings.
to be exact: the criminal organisation spamhaus their illegal blacklists effected some 20 million ips on our last scan of their entire database contents. (although that's a bit hard to do, as named kept crashing running 24 cores of gethostbyname() on 10ge , so we may have missed a few million here and there) at a simultanious portscan of the entire ipv4 internet, it turned out there were only some 200000 smtp servers left however. that leads to the conclusion that 99% of the listings is purely there for blackmail purposes, and has nothing to do with your silly old SMTP protocol AT ALL. the only reason to list those others is to put pressure on people to 1: spend manhours on interacting with the (non-sollicited) spamhaus 'organisation' and 2: illegally force people into breach of contract with their clients.
listing sales department networks of transit carriers to breach national carriers and connected hosting farms into breach of contract with a customer, of which steve linford does not like the CONTENT on the website, kinda, fucks up statistics ay.
face it: smtp is dead, and needs no 'protection' at all.. also ip addresses identify nodes in a network, not people.
also: forcing people to contact spamhaus, causes manhours to be spent on communication, which is extortion, as we have no contractual relation with spamhaus whatsoever, so trying to force carriers and isps into communication with them, is a crime. (although only punishable by 3 months in .nl ;)
the 'we don't block anything' argument doesn't go. spamhaus advertises the fact that they have influence on roughly 1/3rd of mail delivery so they know damn well that by entering an ip on their list, of a sales department of a transit carrier, like they did with at least: tata and tiscali, that they are deliberately obstructing data communications and therefore violating any and all computer sabotage acts.
as for the way in which they advertise their BGP feed. let's just say that we have BGP feeds as well. and we will use them AGAINST spamhaus again. (it's called an internet exchange you dummy ;) "we advise our peers to nullroute traffic to spamhaus or give a preferred route to one of our dns servers which always returns 127.0.0.2" :P
we still kinda had it with their fuckery.
they simply should roll over and die. if not they should get some help.
fun fact: with all the 110 competing 'auto list / auto-de-list' dnsbls in the world, there never was -any- issue whatsoever...
having cghq jew linford crying in the jew press that we would be 'spammers' may have worked to spread slander... however fact of the matter is that smtp is loong dead and we usually don't even read it, sometimes don't have servers for it, and in any case, blocked port 25 on all our networks by default ever since 2004. lolol. (who the FUCK still uses smtp anyway, and why the hell would 'abuse' of it be an excuse to disconnect paying customers - if any - as we certainly never could FIND any "spammers" that could afford our fees ;)
what we see here is a CGHQ JTRIG operation (Spamhaus) trying to enforce UK laws and trade policy upon the rest of the internet, it has nothing to do with 'abuse' spamhaus is a political operation run by the jews at CGHQ.
stophaus is a colation of cyberdivisions of armies fighting them. china, russia, and the republic cyberbunker have every right in the world to just nuke linford off the surface of this planet. and that's probably just what we should have done in the first fucking place.
I imagine SURBL does likewise. Other block lists probably have similar policies / inputs. Simon
The block time policies of RBLs *********************************** There are two main types of block lists: No automatic removal and automatic removal
Is the policy to auto de-list after a period of time, still accurate?
Considering the change in abuse patterns and technology, should the block times be increased or de-creased?
Does society require more specialist non auto de-list DNSBLs? (Would it be helpful to law enforcement to have a "child pornography" dnsbl? or a phish dnsbl? - or is the reactive time to high in order for dynamic ipv4? - but on ipv6 allocations to devices could be more 'permanent'? etc)
Andre
On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 12:19 PM HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker < svenk@xs4all.nl> wrote:
also it's quite vague that when some mossadis rent servers and run an espionage botnet on it (which we happily intercept ourselves ofcourse) - spamhaus somehow magically never lists -that-.. just
Looking at the amusing rant of Sven Olaf, it seems that the listing works! Keep up the good work, spamhaus et al! esa
advertising the sale of : viagra, sex slaves, ak47s, porn of any kind, human trafficing services, specific animals, cocain, data obtained through espionage, encryption technology, vpns, gay propaganda, military propaganda, etc is subject to applicable local law (if any, and if there is none, it's perfectly fine)... not 'spamhaus policies' as spamhaus is not supposed to be 'the internet government'. even if they think they should be. if the uk wants to keep certain products from entering 'their' territory (and in doing so limit the freedom of their own stakeholders/tax payers) that is up to them others choose not to work against their own stakeholders/tax payers that way. they have a customs department to keep said products outside. can't tell others not to produce or sell or advertise it. setting up dirty front operations like 'spamhaus' to lure naive nerds into the illusion that they would be 'fighting spam' is a very nasty thing to do. geo-political wise and business wise. now... in thailand porn is illegal... so... let's disconnect all porn sites because thailand wants us to, oh but wait, thailand doesn't have a 'spamhaus' thinking they rule the entire internet through means of blackmail and calling people 'spammers' or 'spam supporters'. what also works, besides blackmailing with committing computer sabotage against the sales department of suppliers of suppliers of suppliers of the publisher of a website, are: assassins, commandos, carpet bombing, agent orange. etc... all of which should be deployed against spamhaus if you ask me. :P but a nullroute would suffice. lol. after all bgp is an 'advisory' to 'voluntary peers' and 'we don't block anything' as they themselves always say. On 30 ينا, 2017 ص 11:29, Esa Laitinen wrote:
On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 12:19 PM HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker <svenk@xs4all.nl <mailto:svenk@xs4all.nl>> wrote:
also it's quite vague that when some mossadis rent servers and run an espionage botnet on it (which we happily intercept ourselves ofcourse) - spamhaus somehow magically never lists -that-.. just
Looking at the amusing rant of Sven Olaf, it seems that the listing works!
Keep up the good work, spamhaus et al!
esa
content. is NEVER. network-related-abuse. 'making more use of a mail protocol that in every other way is used as intended' is also not 'network-related-abuse' in fact it's not abuse at all. it's like tv advertisements. 'malware and virusses' all simply exploit the same old services 'provided' by crappy windows malware, which should get some import restrictions, and the problem is solved ay. it's windows itself that is the malware there... 'phishing'... so you're saying your bank login procedure sucks balls and/or you think 16 numbers on the front and 3 top secret ones on the back of a plastic card people show in every restaurant they go to are 'security' - go fix your own crap and stop bothering us, we forward -packets-. we don't have time to hunt ghosts for your broken financial services. 'announcing the whole god damn internet split up into /24s'.. - yes .. that's 'abuse'. lol. and either way... if someone doesn't like what someone else is doing they can take them to the -appropriate- courts (of the other party) and try to get them to stop... blackmailing the sales department of the transit carriers of their supplier of their supplier of their supplier, will only make them change isps, cause financial loss (or gains: setup fees), etc. so far all spamhaus has ever established is: - a whole lot of unroutable/unsellable/unusable ipv4 'burned' ranges. - smtp is no longer peer to peer (their bashing on open relays) - smtp is no longer real time (graylisting) - smtp is no longer reliable (with over 20 million ip addresses listed despite there only being 300k mailservers in the world, no wonder!) so instead of stopping spam, they managed to kill of smtp. congratulations. everyone now uses skype and facebook (which are real-time and do have friends-lists) lolol. you have succeeded in bringing microsoft and facebook users to spy on. well done. if smtp is 'getting less' that is only because it has no users left. people only start it up to read ripe mailinglists (lol) or sign up for habbo hotel. FACT. lol. none of our customers has ever sent UCE from our networks... because... ever since 2004... we have simply blocked port 25... smtp only causes -shit- and it -delivers shit- (abusemail and 'legal' threats about shit that is not our problem). we sure as hell have some customers that cause 'shit' but they usually do it in somewhat more profitable markets than sending 'spam' and most definately can buy a tv station or 2 to do their advertisements on. tyvm spamhaus. lol. where this 'mytical' spammer that can pay our 1000-1500 euros per month per server would come from, i don't know, i certainly have never met any... i tried to invoice one 60k once and he backed off already. poor spammers. they're like child porn people. can't pay for anything, so not an urgent issue at all. our customers frequently have the entire fucking cia rolling over their doorstep and if it's not them its the god damn copyright mafia. slightly different budgetarial picture there. shit that -is- worth the trouble. now, please take your shitty nagging about 'abuse' of your crappy silly old smtp protocol, which doesn't even -originate- from our networks in the first fucking place, and stick it where the sun doesn't shine... as for malware... windows is the malware there... it facilitates all the programs residing on top of the same old 1990s badly implemented os/2 ripoff crap. so basically call mickeysoft and ask them to fix the bugs they all exploit, or call the european commission and impose trade bans against microsoft. simple enough. On 30 ينا, 2017 م 12:13, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker wrote:
advertising the sale of : viagra, sex slaves, ak47s, porn of any kind, human trafficing services, specific animals, cocain, data obtained through espionage, encryption technology, vpns, gay propaganda, military propaganda, etc is subject to applicable local law (if any, and if there is none, it's perfectly fine)... not 'spamhaus policies' as spamhaus is not supposed to be 'the internet government'. even if they think they should be.
if the uk wants to keep certain products from entering 'their' territory (and in doing so limit the freedom of their own stakeholders/tax payers) that is up to them others choose not to work against their own stakeholders/tax payers that way. they have a customs department to keep said products outside. can't tell others not to produce or sell or advertise it. setting up dirty front operations like 'spamhaus' to lure naive nerds into the illusion that they would be 'fighting spam' is a very nasty thing to do. geo-political wise and business wise.
now... in thailand porn is illegal... so... let's disconnect all porn sites because thailand wants us to, oh but wait, thailand doesn't have a 'spamhaus' thinking they rule the entire internet through means of blackmail and calling people 'spammers' or 'spam supporters'.
what also works, besides blackmailing with committing computer sabotage against the sales department of suppliers of suppliers of suppliers of the publisher of a website, are: assassins, commandos, carpet bombing, agent orange. etc... all of which should be deployed against spamhaus if you ask me. :P but a nullroute would suffice. lol. after all bgp is an 'advisory' to 'voluntary peers' and 'we don't block anything' as they themselves always say.
On 30 ينا, 2017 ص 11:29, Esa Laitinen wrote:
On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 12:19 PM HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker <svenk@xs4all.nl <mailto:svenk@xs4all.nl>> wrote:
also it's quite vague that when some mossadis rent servers and run an espionage botnet on it (which we happily intercept ourselves ofcourse) - spamhaus somehow magically never lists -that-.. just
Looking at the amusing rant of Sven Olaf, it seems that the listing works!
Keep up the good work, spamhaus et al!
esa
customer wants to send packets from ip A to ip b... did they arrive? -> yes. we did our job. no -> we did not do our job. i can't quite see why we would even need to know what 'smtp' is. nor any of the other obscure shit protocols out there. On 30 ينا, 2017 م 12:30, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker wrote:
content. is NEVER. network-related-abuse.
'making more use of a mail protocol that in every other way is used as intended' is also not 'network-related-abuse' in fact it's not abuse at all. it's like tv advertisements.
'malware and virusses' all simply exploit the same old services 'provided' by crappy windows malware, which should get some import restrictions, and the problem is solved ay. it's windows itself that is the malware there...
'phishing'... so you're saying your bank login procedure sucks balls and/or you think 16 numbers on the front and 3 top secret ones on the back of a plastic card people show in every restaurant they go to are 'security' - go fix your own crap and stop bothering us, we forward -packets-. we don't have time to hunt ghosts for your broken financial services.
'announcing the whole god damn internet split up into /24s'.. - yes .. that's 'abuse'. lol.
and either way... if someone doesn't like what someone else is doing they can take them to the -appropriate- courts (of the other party) and try to get them to stop... blackmailing the sales department of the transit carriers of their supplier of their supplier of their supplier, will only make them change isps, cause financial loss (or gains: setup fees), etc.
so far all spamhaus has ever established is:
- a whole lot of unroutable/unsellable/unusable ipv4 'burned' ranges.
- smtp is no longer peer to peer (their bashing on open relays)
- smtp is no longer real time (graylisting)
- smtp is no longer reliable (with over 20 million ip addresses listed despite there only being 300k mailservers in the world, no wonder!)
so instead of stopping spam, they managed to kill of smtp. congratulations.
everyone now uses skype and facebook (which are real-time and do have friends-lists) lolol. you have succeeded in bringing microsoft and facebook users to spy on. well done.
if smtp is 'getting less' that is only because it has no users left. people only start it up to read ripe mailinglists (lol) or sign up for habbo hotel. FACT. lol.
none of our customers has ever sent UCE from our networks... because... ever since 2004... we have simply blocked port 25... smtp only causes -shit- and it -delivers shit- (abusemail and 'legal' threats about shit that is not our problem). we sure as hell have some customers that cause 'shit' but they usually do it in somewhat more profitable markets than sending 'spam' and most definately can buy a tv station or 2 to do their advertisements on. tyvm spamhaus. lol.
where this 'mytical' spammer that can pay our 1000-1500 euros per month per server would come from, i don't know, i certainly have never met any... i tried to invoice one 60k once and he backed off already. poor spammers. they're like child porn people. can't pay for anything, so not an urgent issue at all.
our customers frequently have the entire fucking cia rolling over their doorstep and if it's not them its the god damn copyright mafia. slightly different budgetarial picture there. shit that -is- worth the trouble.
now, please take your shitty nagging about 'abuse' of your crappy silly old smtp protocol, which doesn't even -originate- from our networks in the first fucking place, and stick it where the sun doesn't shine... as for malware... windows is the malware there... it facilitates all the programs residing on top of the same old 1990s badly implemented os/2 ripoff crap. so basically call mickeysoft and ask them to fix the bugs they all exploit, or call the european commission and impose trade bans against microsoft. simple enough.
On 30 ينا, 2017 م 12:13, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker wrote:
advertising the sale of : viagra, sex slaves, ak47s, porn of any kind, human trafficing services, specific animals, cocain, data obtained through espionage, encryption technology, vpns, gay propaganda, military propaganda, etc is subject to applicable local law (if any, and if there is none, it's perfectly fine)... not 'spamhaus policies' as spamhaus is not supposed to be 'the internet government'. even if they think they should be.
if the uk wants to keep certain products from entering 'their' territory (and in doing so limit the freedom of their own stakeholders/tax payers) that is up to them others choose not to work against their own stakeholders/tax payers that way. they have a customs department to keep said products outside. can't tell others not to produce or sell or advertise it. setting up dirty front operations like 'spamhaus' to lure naive nerds into the illusion that they would be 'fighting spam' is a very nasty thing to do. geo-political wise and business wise.
now... in thailand porn is illegal... so... let's disconnect all porn sites because thailand wants us to, oh but wait, thailand doesn't have a 'spamhaus' thinking they rule the entire internet through means of blackmail and calling people 'spammers' or 'spam supporters'.
what also works, besides blackmailing with committing computer sabotage against the sales department of suppliers of suppliers of suppliers of the publisher of a website, are: assassins, commandos, carpet bombing, agent orange. etc... all of which should be deployed against spamhaus if you ask me. :P but a nullroute would suffice. lol. after all bgp is an 'advisory' to 'voluntary peers' and 'we don't block anything' as they themselves always say.
On 30 ينا, 2017 ص 11:29, Esa Laitinen wrote:
On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 12:19 PM HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker <svenk@xs4all.nl <mailto:svenk@xs4all.nl>> wrote:
also it's quite vague that when some mossadis rent servers and run an espionage botnet on it (which we happily intercept ourselves ofcourse) - spamhaus somehow magically never lists -that-.. just
Looking at the amusing rant of Sven Olaf, it seems that the listing works!
Keep up the good work, spamhaus et al!
esa
btw it would be of great assistance in this matter if transit carriers, simply, only HAD asn's and no ip prefixes that can be used as a blackmailing vector. don't quite see why everyone combines the 'isp' part with the 'transit providing' part of their operations. parties that provide transit, have no need for ip space (bgp sessions are better on 10.0.0.0/8 anyway, prevents attack from 'outside'). if there are no ip's there is nothing idiots like spamhaus (so far they are the only ones) can 'blacklist' to 'build up pressure' to breach contracts. so just split up those operations. On 30 ينا, 2017 م 12:32, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker wrote:
customer wants to send packets from ip A to ip b... did they arrive? -> yes. we did our job. no -> we did not do our job. i can't quite see why we would even need to know what 'smtp' is. nor any of the other obscure shit protocols out there.
On 30 ينا, 2017 م 12:30, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker wrote:
content. is NEVER. network-related-abuse.
'making more use of a mail protocol that in every other way is used as intended' is also not 'network-related-abuse' in fact it's not abuse at all. it's like tv advertisements.
'malware and virusses' all simply exploit the same old services 'provided' by crappy windows malware, which should get some import restrictions, and the problem is solved ay. it's windows itself that is the malware there...
'phishing'... so you're saying your bank login procedure sucks balls and/or you think 16 numbers on the front and 3 top secret ones on the back of a plastic card people show in every restaurant they go to are 'security' - go fix your own crap and stop bothering us, we forward -packets-. we don't have time to hunt ghosts for your broken financial services.
'announcing the whole god damn internet split up into /24s'.. - yes .. that's 'abuse'. lol.
and either way... if someone doesn't like what someone else is doing they can take them to the -appropriate- courts (of the other party) and try to get them to stop... blackmailing the sales department of the transit carriers of their supplier of their supplier of their supplier, will only make them change isps, cause financial loss (or gains: setup fees), etc.
so far all spamhaus has ever established is:
- a whole lot of unroutable/unsellable/unusable ipv4 'burned' ranges.
- smtp is no longer peer to peer (their bashing on open relays)
- smtp is no longer real time (graylisting)
- smtp is no longer reliable (with over 20 million ip addresses listed despite there only being 300k mailservers in the world, no wonder!)
so instead of stopping spam, they managed to kill of smtp. congratulations.
everyone now uses skype and facebook (which are real-time and do have friends-lists) lolol. you have succeeded in bringing microsoft and facebook users to spy on. well done.
if smtp is 'getting less' that is only because it has no users left. people only start it up to read ripe mailinglists (lol) or sign up for habbo hotel. FACT. lol.
none of our customers has ever sent UCE from our networks... because... ever since 2004... we have simply blocked port 25... smtp only causes -shit- and it -delivers shit- (abusemail and 'legal' threats about shit that is not our problem). we sure as hell have some customers that cause 'shit' but they usually do it in somewhat more profitable markets than sending 'spam' and most definately can buy a tv station or 2 to do their advertisements on. tyvm spamhaus. lol.
where this 'mytical' spammer that can pay our 1000-1500 euros per month per server would come from, i don't know, i certainly have never met any... i tried to invoice one 60k once and he backed off already. poor spammers. they're like child porn people. can't pay for anything, so not an urgent issue at all.
our customers frequently have the entire fucking cia rolling over their doorstep and if it's not them its the god damn copyright mafia. slightly different budgetarial picture there. shit that -is- worth the trouble.
now, please take your shitty nagging about 'abuse' of your crappy silly old smtp protocol, which doesn't even -originate- from our networks in the first fucking place, and stick it where the sun doesn't shine... as for malware... windows is the malware there... it facilitates all the programs residing on top of the same old 1990s badly implemented os/2 ripoff crap. so basically call mickeysoft and ask them to fix the bugs they all exploit, or call the european commission and impose trade bans against microsoft. simple enough.
On 30 ينا, 2017 م 12:13, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker wrote:
advertising the sale of : viagra, sex slaves, ak47s, porn of any kind, human trafficing services, specific animals, cocain, data obtained through espionage, encryption technology, vpns, gay propaganda, military propaganda, etc is subject to applicable local law (if any, and if there is none, it's perfectly fine)... not 'spamhaus policies' as spamhaus is not supposed to be 'the internet government'. even if they think they should be.
if the uk wants to keep certain products from entering 'their' territory (and in doing so limit the freedom of their own stakeholders/tax payers) that is up to them others choose not to work against their own stakeholders/tax payers that way. they have a customs department to keep said products outside. can't tell others not to produce or sell or advertise it. setting up dirty front operations like 'spamhaus' to lure naive nerds into the illusion that they would be 'fighting spam' is a very nasty thing to do. geo-political wise and business wise.
now... in thailand porn is illegal... so... let's disconnect all porn sites because thailand wants us to, oh but wait, thailand doesn't have a 'spamhaus' thinking they rule the entire internet through means of blackmail and calling people 'spammers' or 'spam supporters'.
what also works, besides blackmailing with committing computer sabotage against the sales department of suppliers of suppliers of suppliers of the publisher of a website, are: assassins, commandos, carpet bombing, agent orange. etc... all of which should be deployed against spamhaus if you ask me. :P but a nullroute would suffice. lol. after all bgp is an 'advisory' to 'voluntary peers' and 'we don't block anything' as they themselves always say.
On 30 ينا, 2017 ص 11:29, Esa Laitinen wrote:
On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 12:19 PM HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker <svenk@xs4all.nl <mailto:svenk@xs4all.nl>> wrote:
also it's quite vague that when some mossadis rent servers and run an espionage botnet on it (which we happily intercept ourselves ofcourse) - spamhaus somehow magically never lists -that-.. just
Looking at the amusing rant of Sven Olaf, it seems that the listing works!
Keep up the good work, spamhaus et al!
esa
Hello, @Sven Olaf: Please stop using this type of offensive language! This is a public mailinglist and not a place for you to rant and attack in the way you are at the moment. So step back for a minute, take a deep breath and calm down! And if you feel you can send a message without using this type of language, feel free to do so, otherwise stay away! If you have any questions, feel free to reach out to me directly. Thanks, Tobias -- RIPE Anti Abuse Working Group Co-Chair On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 1:46 PM, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker < svenk@xs4all.nl> wrote:
btw it would be of great assistance in this matter if transit carriers, simply, only HAD asn's and no ip prefixes that can be used as a blackmailing vector. don't quite see why everyone combines the 'isp' part with the 'transit providing' part of their operations. parties that provide transit, have no need for ip space (bgp sessions are better on 10.0.0.0/8 anyway, prevents attack from 'outside'). if there are no ip's there is nothing idiots like spamhaus (so far they are the only ones) can 'blacklist' to 'build up pressure' to breach contracts. so just split up those operations.
On 30 ينا, 2017 م 12:32, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker wrote:
customer wants to send packets from ip A to ip b... did they arrive? -> yes. we did our job. no -> we did not do our job. i can't quite see why we would even need to know what 'smtp' is. nor any of the other obscure shit protocols out there.
On 30 ينا, 2017 م 12:30, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker wrote:
content. is NEVER. network-related-abuse.
'making more use of a mail protocol that in every other way is used as intended' is also not 'network-related-abuse' in fact it's not abuse at all. it's like tv advertisements.
'malware and virusses' all simply exploit the same old services 'provided' by crappy windows malware, which should get some import restrictions, and the problem is solved ay. it's windows itself that is the malware there...
'phishing'... so you're saying your bank login procedure sucks balls and/or you think 16 numbers on the front and 3 top secret ones on the back of a plastic card people show in every restaurant they go to are 'security' - go fix your own crap and stop bothering us, we forward -packets-. we don't have time to hunt ghosts for your broken financial services.
'announcing the whole god damn internet split up into /24s'.. - yes .. that's 'abuse'. lol.
and either way... if someone doesn't like what someone else is doing they can take them to the -appropriate- courts (of the other party) and try to get them to stop... blackmailing the sales department of the transit carriers of their supplier of their supplier of their supplier, will only make them change isps, cause financial loss (or gains: setup fees), etc.
so far all spamhaus has ever established is:
- a whole lot of unroutable/unsellable/unusable ipv4 'burned' ranges.
- smtp is no longer peer to peer (their bashing on open relays)
- smtp is no longer real time (graylisting)
- smtp is no longer reliable (with over 20 million ip addresses listed despite there only being 300k mailservers in the world, no wonder!)
so instead of stopping spam, they managed to kill of smtp. congratulations.
everyone now uses skype and facebook (which are real-time and do have friends-lists) lolol. you have succeeded in bringing microsoft and facebook users to spy on. well done.
if smtp is 'getting less' that is only because it has no users left. people only start it up to read ripe mailinglists (lol) or sign up for habbo hotel. FACT. lol.
none of our customers has ever sent UCE from our networks... because... ever since 2004... we have simply blocked port 25... smtp only causes -shit- and it -delivers shit- (abusemail and 'legal' threats about shit that is not our problem). we sure as hell have some customers that cause 'shit' but they usually do it in somewhat more profitable markets than sending 'spam' and most definately can buy a tv station or 2 to do their advertisements on. tyvm spamhaus. lol.
where this 'mytical' spammer that can pay our 1000-1500 euros per month per server would come from, i don't know, i certainly have never met any... i tried to invoice one 60k once and he backed off already. poor spammers. they're like child porn people. can't pay for anything, so not an urgent issue at all.
our customers frequently have the entire fucking cia rolling over their doorstep and if it's not them its the god damn copyright mafia. slightly different budgetarial picture there. shit that -is- worth the trouble.
now, please take your shitty nagging about 'abuse' of your crappy silly old smtp protocol, which doesn't even -originate- from our networks in the first fucking place, and stick it where the sun doesn't shine... as for malware... windows is the malware there... it facilitates all the programs residing on top of the same old 1990s badly implemented os/2 ripoff crap. so basically call mickeysoft and ask them to fix the bugs they all exploit, or call the european commission and impose trade bans against microsoft. simple enough.
On 30 ينا, 2017 م 12:13, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker wrote:
advertising the sale of : viagra, sex slaves, ak47s, porn of any kind, human trafficing services, specific animals, cocain, data obtained through espionage, encryption technology, vpns, gay propaganda, military propaganda, etc is subject to applicable local law (if any, and if there is none, it's perfectly fine)... not 'spamhaus policies' as spamhaus is not supposed to be 'the internet government'. even if they think they should be.
if the uk wants to keep certain products from entering 'their' territory (and in doing so limit the freedom of their own stakeholders/tax payers) that is up to them others choose not to work against their own stakeholders/tax payers that way. they have a customs department to keep said products outside. can't tell others not to produce or sell or advertise it. setting up dirty front operations like 'spamhaus' to lure naive nerds into the illusion that they would be 'fighting spam' is a very nasty thing to do. geo-political wise and business wise.
now... in thailand porn is illegal... so... let's disconnect all porn sites because thailand wants us to, oh but wait, thailand doesn't have a 'spamhaus' thinking they rule the entire internet through means of blackmail and calling people 'spammers' or 'spam supporters'.
what also works, besides blackmailing with committing computer sabotage against the sales department of suppliers of suppliers of suppliers of the publisher of a website, are: assassins, commandos, carpet bombing, agent orange. etc... all of which should be deployed against spamhaus if you ask me. :P but a nullroute would suffice. lol. after all bgp is an 'advisory' to 'voluntary peers' and 'we don't block anything' as they themselves always say.
On 30 ينا, 2017 ص 11:29, Esa Laitinen wrote:
On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 12:19 PM HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker < svenk@xs4all.nl> wrote:
also it's quite vague that when some mossadis rent servers and run an espionage botnet on it (which we happily intercept ourselves ofcourse) - spamhaus somehow magically never lists -that-.. just
Looking at the amusing rant of Sven Olaf, it seems that the listing works!
Keep up the good work, spamhaus et al!
esa
if the fully appropriate language used is the only thing you can think of as an argument, that shows it's completely right. lol. you're free to google 'cb3rob' and see what steve linford told the 'world press' about our operations in the past. so far for inappropriate language. On 30 ينا, 2017 م 12:58, Tobias Knecht wrote:
Hello,
@Sven Olaf: Please stop using this type of offensive language! This is a public mailinglist and not a place for you to rant and attack in the way you are at the moment.
So step back for a minute, take a deep breath and calm down!
And if you feel you can send a message without using this type of language, feel free to do so, otherwise stay away!
If you have any questions, feel free to reach out to me directly.
Thanks,
Tobias
-- RIPE Anti Abuse Working Group Co-Chair
On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 1:46 PM, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker <svenk@xs4all.nl <mailto:svenk@xs4all.nl>> wrote:
btw it would be of great assistance in this matter if transit carriers, simply, only HAD asn's and no ip prefixes that can be used as a blackmailing vector. don't quite see why everyone combines the 'isp' part with the 'transit providing' part of their operations. parties that provide transit, have no need for ip space (bgp sessions are better on 10.0.0.0/8 <http://10.0.0.0/8> anyway, prevents attack from 'outside'). if there are no ip's there is nothing idiots like spamhaus (so far they are the only ones) can 'blacklist' to 'build up pressure' to breach contracts. so just split up those operations.
On 30 ينا, 2017 م 12:32, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker wrote:
customer wants to send packets from ip A to ip b... did they arrive? -> yes. we did our job. no -> we did not do our job. i can't quite see why we would even need to know what 'smtp' is. nor any of the other obscure shit protocols out there.
On 30 ينا, 2017 م 12:30, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker wrote:
content. is NEVER. network-related-abuse.
'making more use of a mail protocol that in every other way is used as intended' is also not 'network-related-abuse' in fact it's not abuse at all. it's like tv advertisements.
'malware and virusses' all simply exploit the same old services 'provided' by crappy windows malware, which should get some import restrictions, and the problem is solved ay. it's windows itself that is the malware there...
'phishing'... so you're saying your bank login procedure sucks balls and/or you think 16 numbers on the front and 3 top secret ones on the back of a plastic card people show in every restaurant they go to are 'security' - go fix your own crap and stop bothering us, we forward -packets-. we don't have time to hunt ghosts for your broken financial services.
'announcing the whole god damn internet split up into /24s'.. - yes .. that's 'abuse'. lol.
and either way... if someone doesn't like what someone else is doing they can take them to the -appropriate- courts (of the other party) and try to get them to stop... blackmailing the sales department of the transit carriers of their supplier of their supplier of their supplier, will only make them change isps, cause financial loss (or gains: setup fees), etc.
so far all spamhaus has ever established is:
- a whole lot of unroutable/unsellable/unusable ipv4 'burned' ranges.
- smtp is no longer peer to peer (their bashing on open relays)
- smtp is no longer real time (graylisting)
- smtp is no longer reliable (with over 20 million ip addresses listed despite there only being 300k mailservers in the world, no wonder!)
so instead of stopping spam, they managed to kill of smtp. congratulations.
everyone now uses skype and facebook (which are real-time and do have friends-lists) lolol. you have succeeded in bringing microsoft and facebook users to spy on. well done.
if smtp is 'getting less' that is only because it has no users left. people only start it up to read ripe mailinglists (lol) or sign up for habbo hotel. FACT. lol.
none of our customers has ever sent UCE from our networks... because... ever since 2004... we have simply blocked port 25... smtp only causes -shit- and it -delivers shit- (abusemail and 'legal' threats about shit that is not our problem). we sure as hell have some customers that cause 'shit' but they usually do it in somewhat more profitable markets than sending 'spam' and most definately can buy a tv station or 2 to do their advertisements on. tyvm spamhaus. lol.
where this 'mytical' spammer that can pay our 1000-1500 euros per month per server would come from, i don't know, i certainly have never met any... i tried to invoice one 60k once and he backed off already. poor spammers. they're like child porn people. can't pay for anything, so not an urgent issue at all.
our customers frequently have the entire fucking cia rolling over their doorstep and if it's not them its the god damn copyright mafia. slightly different budgetarial picture there. shit that -is- worth the trouble.
now, please take your shitty nagging about 'abuse' of your crappy silly old smtp protocol, which doesn't even -originate- from our networks in the first fucking place, and stick it where the sun doesn't shine... as for malware... windows is the malware there... it facilitates all the programs residing on top of the same old 1990s badly implemented os/2 ripoff crap. so basically call mickeysoft and ask them to fix the bugs they all exploit, or call the european commission and impose trade bans against microsoft. simple enough.
On 30 ينا, 2017 م 12:13, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker wrote:
advertising the sale of : viagra, sex slaves, ak47s, porn of any kind, human trafficing services, specific animals, cocain, data obtained through espionage, encryption technology, vpns, gay propaganda, military propaganda, etc is subject to applicable local law (if any, and if there is none, it's perfectly fine)... not 'spamhaus policies' as spamhaus is not supposed to be 'the internet government'. even if they think they should be.
if the uk wants to keep certain products from entering 'their' territory (and in doing so limit the freedom of their own stakeholders/tax payers) that is up to them others choose not to work against their own stakeholders/tax payers that way. they have a customs department to keep said products outside. can't tell others not to produce or sell or advertise it. setting up dirty front operations like 'spamhaus' to lure naive nerds into the illusion that they would be 'fighting spam' is a very nasty thing to do. geo-political wise and business wise.
now... in thailand porn is illegal... so... let's disconnect all porn sites because thailand wants us to, oh but wait, thailand doesn't have a 'spamhaus' thinking they rule the entire internet through means of blackmail and calling people 'spammers' or 'spam supporters'.
what also works, besides blackmailing with committing computer sabotage against the sales department of suppliers of suppliers of suppliers of the publisher of a website, are: assassins, commandos, carpet bombing, agent orange. etc... all of which should be deployed against spamhaus if you ask me. :P but a nullroute would suffice. lol. after all bgp is an 'advisory' to 'voluntary peers' and 'we don't block anything' as they themselves always say.
On 30 ينا, 2017 ص 11:29, Esa Laitinen wrote:
On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 12:19 PM HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker <svenk@xs4all.nl <mailto:svenk@xs4all.nl>> wrote:
also it's quite vague that when some mossadis rent servers and run an espionage botnet on it (which we happily intercept ourselves ofcourse) - spamhaus somehow magically never lists -that-.. just
Looking at the amusing rant of Sven Olaf, it seems that the listing works!
Keep up the good work, spamhaus et al!
esa
btw. this is europe. not america. we can say fuck however many times we want over here. tyvm. and in the case of spamhaus, it's fully applicable. spamhaus IS a cancer. that was using this mailinglist just a few hours ago to try to further the reach of their cancerous censorship tool disguised as a 'spam fighter' On 30 ينا, 2017 م 01:03, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker wrote:
if the fully appropriate language used is the only thing you can think of as an argument, that shows it's completely right. lol. you're free to google 'cb3rob' and see what steve linford told the 'world press' about our operations in the past. so far for inappropriate language.
On 30 ينا, 2017 م 12:58, Tobias Knecht wrote:
Hello,
@Sven Olaf: Please stop using this type of offensive language! This is a public mailinglist and not a place for you to rant and attack in the way you are at the moment.
So step back for a minute, take a deep breath and calm down!
And if you feel you can send a message without using this type of language, feel free to do so, otherwise stay away!
If you have any questions, feel free to reach out to me directly.
Thanks,
Tobias
-- RIPE Anti Abuse Working Group Co-Chair
On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 1:46 PM, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker <svenk@xs4all.nl <mailto:svenk@xs4all.nl>> wrote:
btw it would be of great assistance in this matter if transit carriers, simply, only HAD asn's and no ip prefixes that can be used as a blackmailing vector. don't quite see why everyone combines the 'isp' part with the 'transit providing' part of their operations. parties that provide transit, have no need for ip space (bgp sessions are better on 10.0.0.0/8 <http://10.0.0.0/8> anyway, prevents attack from 'outside'). if there are no ip's there is nothing idiots like spamhaus (so far they are the only ones) can 'blacklist' to 'build up pressure' to breach contracts. so just split up those operations.
On 30 ينا, 2017 م 12:32, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker wrote:
customer wants to send packets from ip A to ip b... did they arrive? -> yes. we did our job. no -> we did not do our job. i can't quite see why we would even need to know what 'smtp' is. nor any of the other obscure shit protocols out there.
On 30 ينا, 2017 م 12:30, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker wrote:
content. is NEVER. network-related-abuse.
'making more use of a mail protocol that in every other way is used as intended' is also not 'network-related-abuse' in fact it's not abuse at all. it's like tv advertisements.
'malware and virusses' all simply exploit the same old services 'provided' by crappy windows malware, which should get some import restrictions, and the problem is solved ay. it's windows itself that is the malware there...
'phishing'... so you're saying your bank login procedure sucks balls and/or you think 16 numbers on the front and 3 top secret ones on the back of a plastic card people show in every restaurant they go to are 'security' - go fix your own crap and stop bothering us, we forward -packets-. we don't have time to hunt ghosts for your broken financial services.
'announcing the whole god damn internet split up into /24s'.. - yes .. that's 'abuse'. lol.
and either way... if someone doesn't like what someone else is doing they can take them to the -appropriate- courts (of the other party) and try to get them to stop... blackmailing the sales department of the transit carriers of their supplier of their supplier of their supplier, will only make them change isps, cause financial loss (or gains: setup fees), etc.
so far all spamhaus has ever established is:
- a whole lot of unroutable/unsellable/unusable ipv4 'burned' ranges.
- smtp is no longer peer to peer (their bashing on open relays)
- smtp is no longer real time (graylisting)
- smtp is no longer reliable (with over 20 million ip addresses listed despite there only being 300k mailservers in the world, no wonder!)
so instead of stopping spam, they managed to kill of smtp. congratulations.
everyone now uses skype and facebook (which are real-time and do have friends-lists) lolol. you have succeeded in bringing microsoft and facebook users to spy on. well done.
if smtp is 'getting less' that is only because it has no users left. people only start it up to read ripe mailinglists (lol) or sign up for habbo hotel. FACT. lol.
none of our customers has ever sent UCE from our networks... because... ever since 2004... we have simply blocked port 25... smtp only causes -shit- and it -delivers shit- (abusemail and 'legal' threats about shit that is not our problem). we sure as hell have some customers that cause 'shit' but they usually do it in somewhat more profitable markets than sending 'spam' and most definately can buy a tv station or 2 to do their advertisements on. tyvm spamhaus. lol.
where this 'mytical' spammer that can pay our 1000-1500 euros per month per server would come from, i don't know, i certainly have never met any... i tried to invoice one 60k once and he backed off already. poor spammers. they're like child porn people. can't pay for anything, so not an urgent issue at all.
our customers frequently have the entire fucking cia rolling over their doorstep and if it's not them its the god damn copyright mafia. slightly different budgetarial picture there. shit that -is- worth the trouble.
now, please take your shitty nagging about 'abuse' of your crappy silly old smtp protocol, which doesn't even -originate- from our networks in the first fucking place, and stick it where the sun doesn't shine... as for malware... windows is the malware there... it facilitates all the programs residing on top of the same old 1990s badly implemented os/2 ripoff crap. so basically call mickeysoft and ask them to fix the bugs they all exploit, or call the european commission and impose trade bans against microsoft. simple enough.
On 30 ينا, 2017 م 12:13, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker wrote:
advertising the sale of : viagra, sex slaves, ak47s, porn of any kind, human trafficing services, specific animals, cocain, data obtained through espionage, encryption technology, vpns, gay propaganda, military propaganda, etc is subject to applicable local law (if any, and if there is none, it's perfectly fine)... not 'spamhaus policies' as spamhaus is not supposed to be 'the internet government'. even if they think they should be.
if the uk wants to keep certain products from entering 'their' territory (and in doing so limit the freedom of their own stakeholders/tax payers) that is up to them others choose not to work against their own stakeholders/tax payers that way. they have a customs department to keep said products outside. can't tell others not to produce or sell or advertise it. setting up dirty front operations like 'spamhaus' to lure naive nerds into the illusion that they would be 'fighting spam' is a very nasty thing to do. geo-political wise and business wise.
now... in thailand porn is illegal... so... let's disconnect all porn sites because thailand wants us to, oh but wait, thailand doesn't have a 'spamhaus' thinking they rule the entire internet through means of blackmail and calling people 'spammers' or 'spam supporters'.
what also works, besides blackmailing with committing computer sabotage against the sales department of suppliers of suppliers of suppliers of the publisher of a website, are: assassins, commandos, carpet bombing, agent orange. etc... all of which should be deployed against spamhaus if you ask me. :P but a nullroute would suffice. lol. after all bgp is an 'advisory' to 'voluntary peers' and 'we don't block anything' as they themselves always say.
On 30 ينا, 2017 ص 11:29, Esa Laitinen wrote:
On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 12:19 PM HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker <svenk@xs4all.nl <mailto:svenk@xs4all.nl>> wrote:
also it's quite vague that when some mossadis rent servers and run an espionage botnet on it (which we happily intercept ourselves ofcourse) - spamhaus somehow magically never lists -that-.. just
Looking at the amusing rant of Sven Olaf, it seems that the listing works!
Keep up the good work, spamhaus et al!
esa
one would almost go and set up a few 1000 smtp servers, all sending steve linford viagra offers, just to annoy the guy back. operational costs would go through the roof tho lol. On 30 ينا, 2017 م 01:04, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker wrote:
btw. this is europe. not america. we can say fuck however many times we want over here. tyvm. and in the case of spamhaus, it's fully applicable. spamhaus IS a cancer. that was using this mailinglist just a few hours ago to try to further the reach of their cancerous censorship tool disguised as a 'spam fighter'
On 30 ينا, 2017 م 01:03, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker wrote:
if the fully appropriate language used is the only thing you can think of as an argument, that shows it's completely right. lol. you're free to google 'cb3rob' and see what steve linford told the 'world press' about our operations in the past. so far for inappropriate language.
On 30 ينا, 2017 م 12:58, Tobias Knecht wrote:
Hello,
@Sven Olaf: Please stop using this type of offensive language! This is a public mailinglist and not a place for you to rant and attack in the way you are at the moment.
So step back for a minute, take a deep breath and calm down!
And if you feel you can send a message without using this type of language, feel free to do so, otherwise stay away!
If you have any questions, feel free to reach out to me directly.
Thanks,
Tobias
-- RIPE Anti Abuse Working Group Co-Chair
On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 1:46 PM, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker <svenk@xs4all.nl <mailto:svenk@xs4all.nl>> wrote:
btw it would be of great assistance in this matter if transit carriers, simply, only HAD asn's and no ip prefixes that can be used as a blackmailing vector. don't quite see why everyone combines the 'isp' part with the 'transit providing' part of their operations. parties that provide transit, have no need for ip space (bgp sessions are better on 10.0.0.0/8 <http://10.0.0.0/8> anyway, prevents attack from 'outside'). if there are no ip's there is nothing idiots like spamhaus (so far they are the only ones) can 'blacklist' to 'build up pressure' to breach contracts. so just split up those operations.
On 30 ينا, 2017 م 12:32, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker wrote:
customer wants to send packets from ip A to ip b... did they arrive? -> yes. we did our job. no -> we did not do our job. i can't quite see why we would even need to know what 'smtp' is. nor any of the other obscure shit protocols out there.
On 30 ينا, 2017 م 12:30, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker wrote:
content. is NEVER. network-related-abuse.
'making more use of a mail protocol that in every other way is used as intended' is also not 'network-related-abuse' in fact it's not abuse at all. it's like tv advertisements.
'malware and virusses' all simply exploit the same old services 'provided' by crappy windows malware, which should get some import restrictions, and the problem is solved ay. it's windows itself that is the malware there...
'phishing'... so you're saying your bank login procedure sucks balls and/or you think 16 numbers on the front and 3 top secret ones on the back of a plastic card people show in every restaurant they go to are 'security' - go fix your own crap and stop bothering us, we forward -packets-. we don't have time to hunt ghosts for your broken financial services.
'announcing the whole god damn internet split up into /24s'.. - yes .. that's 'abuse'. lol.
and either way... if someone doesn't like what someone else is doing they can take them to the -appropriate- courts (of the other party) and try to get them to stop... blackmailing the sales department of the transit carriers of their supplier of their supplier of their supplier, will only make them change isps, cause financial loss (or gains: setup fees), etc.
so far all spamhaus has ever established is:
- a whole lot of unroutable/unsellable/unusable ipv4 'burned' ranges.
- smtp is no longer peer to peer (their bashing on open relays)
- smtp is no longer real time (graylisting)
- smtp is no longer reliable (with over 20 million ip addresses listed despite there only being 300k mailservers in the world, no wonder!)
so instead of stopping spam, they managed to kill of smtp. congratulations.
everyone now uses skype and facebook (which are real-time and do have friends-lists) lolol. you have succeeded in bringing microsoft and facebook users to spy on. well done.
if smtp is 'getting less' that is only because it has no users left. people only start it up to read ripe mailinglists (lol) or sign up for habbo hotel. FACT. lol.
none of our customers has ever sent UCE from our networks... because... ever since 2004... we have simply blocked port 25... smtp only causes -shit- and it -delivers shit- (abusemail and 'legal' threats about shit that is not our problem). we sure as hell have some customers that cause 'shit' but they usually do it in somewhat more profitable markets than sending 'spam' and most definately can buy a tv station or 2 to do their advertisements on. tyvm spamhaus. lol.
where this 'mytical' spammer that can pay our 1000-1500 euros per month per server would come from, i don't know, i certainly have never met any... i tried to invoice one 60k once and he backed off already. poor spammers. they're like child porn people. can't pay for anything, so not an urgent issue at all.
our customers frequently have the entire fucking cia rolling over their doorstep and if it's not them its the god damn copyright mafia. slightly different budgetarial picture there. shit that -is- worth the trouble.
now, please take your shitty nagging about 'abuse' of your crappy silly old smtp protocol, which doesn't even -originate- from our networks in the first fucking place, and stick it where the sun doesn't shine... as for malware... windows is the malware there... it facilitates all the programs residing on top of the same old 1990s badly implemented os/2 ripoff crap. so basically call mickeysoft and ask them to fix the bugs they all exploit, or call the european commission and impose trade bans against microsoft. simple enough.
On 30 ينا, 2017 م 12:13, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker wrote:
advertising the sale of : viagra, sex slaves, ak47s, porn of any kind, human trafficing services, specific animals, cocain, data obtained through espionage, encryption technology, vpns, gay propaganda, military propaganda, etc is subject to applicable local law (if any, and if there is none, it's perfectly fine)... not 'spamhaus policies' as spamhaus is not supposed to be 'the internet government'. even if they think they should be.
if the uk wants to keep certain products from entering 'their' territory (and in doing so limit the freedom of their own stakeholders/tax payers) that is up to them others choose not to work against their own stakeholders/tax payers that way. they have a customs department to keep said products outside. can't tell others not to produce or sell or advertise it. setting up dirty front operations like 'spamhaus' to lure naive nerds into the illusion that they would be 'fighting spam' is a very nasty thing to do. geo-political wise and business wise.
now... in thailand porn is illegal... so... let's disconnect all porn sites because thailand wants us to, oh but wait, thailand doesn't have a 'spamhaus' thinking they rule the entire internet through means of blackmail and calling people 'spammers' or 'spam supporters'.
what also works, besides blackmailing with committing computer sabotage against the sales department of suppliers of suppliers of suppliers of the publisher of a website, are: assassins, commandos, carpet bombing, agent orange. etc... all of which should be deployed against spamhaus if you ask me. :P but a nullroute would suffice. lol. after all bgp is an 'advisory' to 'voluntary peers' and 'we don't block anything' as they themselves always say.
On 30 ينا, 2017 ص 11:29, Esa Laitinen wrote: > > > On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 12:19 PM HRH Prince Sven Olaf von > CyberBunker <svenk@xs4all.nl <mailto:svenk@xs4all.nl>> wrote: > > also it's quite vague that when some mossadis rent > servers and run an espionage botnet on it (which we > happily intercept ourselves ofcourse) - spamhaus somehow > magically never lists -that-.. just > > > > Looking at the amusing rant of Sven Olaf, it seems that the > listing works! > > Keep up the good work, spamhaus et al! > > esa
also may we remind steve linford that as he pretends to be a 'company' (just one without a trade register entry and office in switserland), sending him unsollicited mail with any random content, would be -perfectly- legal in pretty much all of the eu memberstates... if he doesn't like that FACT, he should go into politics, not into blackmailing. lol. On 30 ينا, 2017 م 01:09, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker wrote:
one would almost go and set up a few 1000 smtp servers, all sending steve linford viagra offers, just to annoy the guy back. operational costs would go through the roof tho lol.
On 30 ينا, 2017 م 01:04, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker wrote:
btw. this is europe. not america. we can say fuck however many times we want over here. tyvm. and in the case of spamhaus, it's fully applicable. spamhaus IS a cancer. that was using this mailinglist just a few hours ago to try to further the reach of their cancerous censorship tool disguised as a 'spam fighter'
On 30 ينا, 2017 م 01:03, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker wrote:
if the fully appropriate language used is the only thing you can think of as an argument, that shows it's completely right. lol. you're free to google 'cb3rob' and see what steve linford told the 'world press' about our operations in the past. so far for inappropriate language.
On 30 ينا, 2017 م 12:58, Tobias Knecht wrote:
Hello,
@Sven Olaf: Please stop using this type of offensive language! This is a public mailinglist and not a place for you to rant and attack in the way you are at the moment.
So step back for a minute, take a deep breath and calm down!
And if you feel you can send a message without using this type of language, feel free to do so, otherwise stay away!
If you have any questions, feel free to reach out to me directly.
Thanks,
Tobias
-- RIPE Anti Abuse Working Group Co-Chair
On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 1:46 PM, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker <svenk@xs4all.nl <mailto:svenk@xs4all.nl>> wrote:
btw it would be of great assistance in this matter if transit carriers, simply, only HAD asn's and no ip prefixes that can be used as a blackmailing vector. don't quite see why everyone combines the 'isp' part with the 'transit providing' part of their operations. parties that provide transit, have no need for ip space (bgp sessions are better on 10.0.0.0/8 <http://10.0.0.0/8> anyway, prevents attack from 'outside'). if there are no ip's there is nothing idiots like spamhaus (so far they are the only ones) can 'blacklist' to 'build up pressure' to breach contracts. so just split up those operations.
On 30 ينا, 2017 م 12:32, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker wrote:
customer wants to send packets from ip A to ip b... did they arrive? -> yes. we did our job. no -> we did not do our job. i can't quite see why we would even need to know what 'smtp' is. nor any of the other obscure shit protocols out there.
On 30 ينا, 2017 م 12:30, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker wrote:
content. is NEVER. network-related-abuse.
'making more use of a mail protocol that in every other way is used as intended' is also not 'network-related-abuse' in fact it's not abuse at all. it's like tv advertisements.
'malware and virusses' all simply exploit the same old services 'provided' by crappy windows malware, which should get some import restrictions, and the problem is solved ay. it's windows itself that is the malware there...
'phishing'... so you're saying your bank login procedure sucks balls and/or you think 16 numbers on the front and 3 top secret ones on the back of a plastic card people show in every restaurant they go to are 'security' - go fix your own crap and stop bothering us, we forward -packets-. we don't have time to hunt ghosts for your broken financial services.
'announcing the whole god damn internet split up into /24s'.. - yes .. that's 'abuse'. lol.
and either way... if someone doesn't like what someone else is doing they can take them to the -appropriate- courts (of the other party) and try to get them to stop... blackmailing the sales department of the transit carriers of their supplier of their supplier of their supplier, will only make them change isps, cause financial loss (or gains: setup fees), etc.
so far all spamhaus has ever established is:
- a whole lot of unroutable/unsellable/unusable ipv4 'burned' ranges.
- smtp is no longer peer to peer (their bashing on open relays)
- smtp is no longer real time (graylisting)
- smtp is no longer reliable (with over 20 million ip addresses listed despite there only being 300k mailservers in the world, no wonder!)
so instead of stopping spam, they managed to kill of smtp. congratulations.
everyone now uses skype and facebook (which are real-time and do have friends-lists) lolol. you have succeeded in bringing microsoft and facebook users to spy on. well done.
if smtp is 'getting less' that is only because it has no users left. people only start it up to read ripe mailinglists (lol) or sign up for habbo hotel. FACT. lol.
none of our customers has ever sent UCE from our networks... because... ever since 2004... we have simply blocked port 25... smtp only causes -shit- and it -delivers shit- (abusemail and 'legal' threats about shit that is not our problem). we sure as hell have some customers that cause 'shit' but they usually do it in somewhat more profitable markets than sending 'spam' and most definately can buy a tv station or 2 to do their advertisements on. tyvm spamhaus. lol.
where this 'mytical' spammer that can pay our 1000-1500 euros per month per server would come from, i don't know, i certainly have never met any... i tried to invoice one 60k once and he backed off already. poor spammers. they're like child porn people. can't pay for anything, so not an urgent issue at all.
our customers frequently have the entire fucking cia rolling over their doorstep and if it's not them its the god damn copyright mafia. slightly different budgetarial picture there. shit that -is- worth the trouble.
now, please take your shitty nagging about 'abuse' of your crappy silly old smtp protocol, which doesn't even -originate- from our networks in the first fucking place, and stick it where the sun doesn't shine... as for malware... windows is the malware there... it facilitates all the programs residing on top of the same old 1990s badly implemented os/2 ripoff crap. so basically call mickeysoft and ask them to fix the bugs they all exploit, or call the european commission and impose trade bans against microsoft. simple enough.
On 30 ينا, 2017 م 12:13, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker wrote: > > advertising the sale of : viagra, sex slaves, ak47s, porn of > any kind, human trafficing services, specific animals, > cocain, data obtained through espionage, encryption > technology, vpns, gay propaganda, military propaganda, etc > is subject to applicable local law (if any, and if there is > none, it's perfectly fine)... not 'spamhaus policies' as > spamhaus is not supposed to be 'the internet government'. > even if they think they should be. > > if the uk wants to keep certain products from entering > 'their' territory (and in doing so limit the freedom of > their own stakeholders/tax payers) that is up to them others > choose not to work against their own stakeholders/tax payers > that way. they have a customs department to keep said > products outside. can't tell others not to produce or sell > or advertise it. setting up dirty front operations like > 'spamhaus' to lure naive nerds into the illusion that they > would be 'fighting spam' is a very nasty thing to do. > geo-political wise and business wise. > > now... in thailand porn is illegal... so... let's disconnect > all porn sites because thailand wants us to, oh but wait, > thailand doesn't have a 'spamhaus' thinking they rule the > entire internet through means of blackmail and calling > people 'spammers' or 'spam supporters'. > > what also works, besides blackmailing with committing > computer sabotage against the sales department of suppliers > of suppliers of suppliers of the publisher of a website, > are: assassins, commandos, carpet bombing, agent orange. > etc... all of which should be deployed against spamhaus if > you ask me. :P but a nullroute would suffice. lol. after all > bgp is an 'advisory' to 'voluntary peers' and 'we don't > block anything' as they themselves always say. > > > On 30 ينا, 2017 ص 11:29, Esa Laitinen wrote: >> >> >> On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 12:19 PM HRH Prince Sven Olaf von >> CyberBunker <svenk@xs4all.nl <mailto:svenk@xs4all.nl>> wrote: >> >> also it's quite vague that when some mossadis rent >> servers and run an espionage botnet on it (which we >> happily intercept ourselves ofcourse) - spamhaus >> somehow magically never lists -that-.. just >> >> >> >> Looking at the amusing rant of Sven Olaf, it seems that the >> listing works! >> >> Keep up the good work, spamhaus et al! >> >> esa >
and now it's time for everyone here, to stop giving stevieboy his way with his absurd definitions of 'abuse'... if there is no law against it in the country in which the customer recides. its no reason for disconnection. doing so is not delivering a paid service, caving into blackmail, and undermining provider immunity by caving in to any random idiot that just so happens to have gained influence over mail delivery, and frequently abuses said (advertised) influence to commit computer sabotage (he knows what the impacts of his listings are, he advertises with it), to extort the internet industry into wasting valuable manhours on him and his self-declared 'delisting procedure', and breach valuable contracts. if he mentions any ip address (or worse: personal details) in his crappy slander and blackmail system he calls 'spamhaus' just call the feds on him. the guardia civil for example as he currently is in spain. viola 13 puerta d' andratx. under no circumstance should 'spamhaus' be allowed to dictate which customers to serve and which not. simple as that. now act PROFESSIONAL and stop giving this idiot his way just because he mentions 'spam'. as if 'spam' is the worst thing that ever happened to the internet... how about him trying to get entire isps disconnected. who gives a shit about him and his 'spam'. On 30 ينا, 2017 م 01:09, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker wrote:
one would almost go and set up a few 1000 smtp servers, all sending steve linford viagra offers, just to annoy the guy back. operational costs would go through the roof tho lol.
On 30 ينا, 2017 م 01:04, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker wrote:
btw. this is europe. not america. we can say fuck however many times we want over here. tyvm. and in the case of spamhaus, it's fully applicable. spamhaus IS a cancer. that was using this mailinglist just a few hours ago to try to further the reach of their cancerous censorship tool disguised as a 'spam fighter'
On 30 ينا, 2017 م 01:03, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker wrote:
if the fully appropriate language used is the only thing you can think of as an argument, that shows it's completely right. lol. you're free to google 'cb3rob' and see what steve linford told the 'world press' about our operations in the past. so far for inappropriate language.
On 30 ينا, 2017 م 12:58, Tobias Knecht wrote:
Hello,
@Sven Olaf: Please stop using this type of offensive language! This is a public mailinglist and not a place for you to rant and attack in the way you are at the moment.
So step back for a minute, take a deep breath and calm down!
And if you feel you can send a message without using this type of language, feel free to do so, otherwise stay away!
If you have any questions, feel free to reach out to me directly.
Thanks,
Tobias
-- RIPE Anti Abuse Working Group Co-Chair
On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 1:46 PM, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker <svenk@xs4all.nl <mailto:svenk@xs4all.nl>> wrote:
btw it would be of great assistance in this matter if transit carriers, simply, only HAD asn's and no ip prefixes that can be used as a blackmailing vector. don't quite see why everyone combines the 'isp' part with the 'transit providing' part of their operations. parties that provide transit, have no need for ip space (bgp sessions are better on 10.0.0.0/8 <http://10.0.0.0/8> anyway, prevents attack from 'outside'). if there are no ip's there is nothing idiots like spamhaus (so far they are the only ones) can 'blacklist' to 'build up pressure' to breach contracts. so just split up those operations.
On 30 ينا, 2017 م 12:32, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker wrote:
customer wants to send packets from ip A to ip b... did they arrive? -> yes. we did our job. no -> we did not do our job. i can't quite see why we would even need to know what 'smtp' is. nor any of the other obscure shit protocols out there.
On 30 ينا, 2017 م 12:30, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker wrote:
content. is NEVER. network-related-abuse.
'making more use of a mail protocol that in every other way is used as intended' is also not 'network-related-abuse' in fact it's not abuse at all. it's like tv advertisements.
'malware and virusses' all simply exploit the same old services 'provided' by crappy windows malware, which should get some import restrictions, and the problem is solved ay. it's windows itself that is the malware there...
'phishing'... so you're saying your bank login procedure sucks balls and/or you think 16 numbers on the front and 3 top secret ones on the back of a plastic card people show in every restaurant they go to are 'security' - go fix your own crap and stop bothering us, we forward -packets-. we don't have time to hunt ghosts for your broken financial services.
'announcing the whole god damn internet split up into /24s'.. - yes .. that's 'abuse'. lol.
and either way... if someone doesn't like what someone else is doing they can take them to the -appropriate- courts (of the other party) and try to get them to stop... blackmailing the sales department of the transit carriers of their supplier of their supplier of their supplier, will only make them change isps, cause financial loss (or gains: setup fees), etc.
so far all spamhaus has ever established is:
- a whole lot of unroutable/unsellable/unusable ipv4 'burned' ranges.
- smtp is no longer peer to peer (their bashing on open relays)
- smtp is no longer real time (graylisting)
- smtp is no longer reliable (with over 20 million ip addresses listed despite there only being 300k mailservers in the world, no wonder!)
so instead of stopping spam, they managed to kill of smtp. congratulations.
everyone now uses skype and facebook (which are real-time and do have friends-lists) lolol. you have succeeded in bringing microsoft and facebook users to spy on. well done.
if smtp is 'getting less' that is only because it has no users left. people only start it up to read ripe mailinglists (lol) or sign up for habbo hotel. FACT. lol.
none of our customers has ever sent UCE from our networks... because... ever since 2004... we have simply blocked port 25... smtp only causes -shit- and it -delivers shit- (abusemail and 'legal' threats about shit that is not our problem). we sure as hell have some customers that cause 'shit' but they usually do it in somewhat more profitable markets than sending 'spam' and most definately can buy a tv station or 2 to do their advertisements on. tyvm spamhaus. lol.
where this 'mytical' spammer that can pay our 1000-1500 euros per month per server would come from, i don't know, i certainly have never met any... i tried to invoice one 60k once and he backed off already. poor spammers. they're like child porn people. can't pay for anything, so not an urgent issue at all.
our customers frequently have the entire fucking cia rolling over their doorstep and if it's not them its the god damn copyright mafia. slightly different budgetarial picture there. shit that -is- worth the trouble.
now, please take your shitty nagging about 'abuse' of your crappy silly old smtp protocol, which doesn't even -originate- from our networks in the first fucking place, and stick it where the sun doesn't shine... as for malware... windows is the malware there... it facilitates all the programs residing on top of the same old 1990s badly implemented os/2 ripoff crap. so basically call mickeysoft and ask them to fix the bugs they all exploit, or call the european commission and impose trade bans against microsoft. simple enough.
On 30 ينا, 2017 م 12:13, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker wrote: > > advertising the sale of : viagra, sex slaves, ak47s, porn of > any kind, human trafficing services, specific animals, > cocain, data obtained through espionage, encryption > technology, vpns, gay propaganda, military propaganda, etc > is subject to applicable local law (if any, and if there is > none, it's perfectly fine)... not 'spamhaus policies' as > spamhaus is not supposed to be 'the internet government'. > even if they think they should be. > > if the uk wants to keep certain products from entering > 'their' territory (and in doing so limit the freedom of > their own stakeholders/tax payers) that is up to them others > choose not to work against their own stakeholders/tax payers > that way. they have a customs department to keep said > products outside. can't tell others not to produce or sell > or advertise it. setting up dirty front operations like > 'spamhaus' to lure naive nerds into the illusion that they > would be 'fighting spam' is a very nasty thing to do. > geo-political wise and business wise. > > now... in thailand porn is illegal... so... let's disconnect > all porn sites because thailand wants us to, oh but wait, > thailand doesn't have a 'spamhaus' thinking they rule the > entire internet through means of blackmail and calling > people 'spammers' or 'spam supporters'. > > what also works, besides blackmailing with committing > computer sabotage against the sales department of suppliers > of suppliers of suppliers of the publisher of a website, > are: assassins, commandos, carpet bombing, agent orange. > etc... all of which should be deployed against spamhaus if > you ask me. :P but a nullroute would suffice. lol. after all > bgp is an 'advisory' to 'voluntary peers' and 'we don't > block anything' as they themselves always say. > > > On 30 ينا, 2017 ص 11:29, Esa Laitinen wrote: >> >> >> On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 12:19 PM HRH Prince Sven Olaf von >> CyberBunker <svenk@xs4all.nl <mailto:svenk@xs4all.nl>> wrote: >> >> also it's quite vague that when some mossadis rent >> servers and run an espionage botnet on it (which we >> happily intercept ourselves ofcourse) - spamhaus >> somehow magically never lists -that-.. just >> >> >> >> Looking at the amusing rant of Sven Olaf, it seems that the >> listing works! >> >> Keep up the good work, spamhaus et al! >> >> esa >
smtp is just one of many protocols out there, a primitive, fairly unimportant and severely lacking in terms of security one at that, and it's protection cannot be a reason for any disconnection -ever-. On 30 ينا, 2017 م 01:17, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker wrote:
and now it's time for everyone here, to stop giving stevieboy his way with his absurd definitions of 'abuse'... if there is no law against it in the country in which the customer recides. its no reason for disconnection. doing so is not delivering a paid service, caving into blackmail, and undermining provider immunity by caving in to any random idiot that just so happens to have gained influence over mail delivery, and frequently abuses said (advertised) influence to commit computer sabotage (he knows what the impacts of his listings are, he advertises with it), to extort the internet industry into wasting valuable manhours on him and his self-declared 'delisting procedure', and breach valuable contracts.
if he mentions any ip address (or worse: personal details) in his crappy slander and blackmail system he calls 'spamhaus' just call the feds on him. the guardia civil for example as he currently is in spain.
viola 13
puerta d' andratx.
under no circumstance should 'spamhaus' be allowed to dictate which customers to serve and which not. simple as that.
now act PROFESSIONAL and stop giving this idiot his way just because he mentions 'spam'. as if 'spam'
is the worst thing that ever happened to the internet... how about him trying to get entire isps disconnected. who gives a shit about him and his 'spam'.
On 30 ينا, 2017 م 01:09, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker wrote:
one would almost go and set up a few 1000 smtp servers, all sending steve linford viagra offers, just to annoy the guy back. operational costs would go through the roof tho lol.
On 30 ينا, 2017 م 01:04, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker wrote:
btw. this is europe. not america. we can say fuck however many times we want over here. tyvm. and in the case of spamhaus, it's fully applicable. spamhaus IS a cancer. that was using this mailinglist just a few hours ago to try to further the reach of their cancerous censorship tool disguised as a 'spam fighter'
On 30 ينا, 2017 م 01:03, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker wrote:
if the fully appropriate language used is the only thing you can think of as an argument, that shows it's completely right. lol. you're free to google 'cb3rob' and see what steve linford told the 'world press' about our operations in the past. so far for inappropriate language.
On 30 ينا, 2017 م 12:58, Tobias Knecht wrote:
Hello,
@Sven Olaf: Please stop using this type of offensive language! This is a public mailinglist and not a place for you to rant and attack in the way you are at the moment.
So step back for a minute, take a deep breath and calm down!
And if you feel you can send a message without using this type of language, feel free to do so, otherwise stay away!
If you have any questions, feel free to reach out to me directly.
Thanks,
Tobias
-- RIPE Anti Abuse Working Group Co-Chair
On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 1:46 PM, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker <svenk@xs4all.nl <mailto:svenk@xs4all.nl>> wrote:
btw it would be of great assistance in this matter if transit carriers, simply, only HAD asn's and no ip prefixes that can be used as a blackmailing vector. don't quite see why everyone combines the 'isp' part with the 'transit providing' part of their operations. parties that provide transit, have no need for ip space (bgp sessions are better on 10.0.0.0/8 <http://10.0.0.0/8> anyway, prevents attack from 'outside'). if there are no ip's there is nothing idiots like spamhaus (so far they are the only ones) can 'blacklist' to 'build up pressure' to breach contracts. so just split up those operations.
On 30 ينا, 2017 م 12:32, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker wrote:
customer wants to send packets from ip A to ip b... did they arrive? -> yes. we did our job. no -> we did not do our job. i can't quite see why we would even need to know what 'smtp' is. nor any of the other obscure shit protocols out there.
On 30 ينا, 2017 م 12:30, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker wrote: > > content. is NEVER. network-related-abuse. > > 'making more use of a mail protocol that in every other way > is used as intended' is also not 'network-related-abuse' in > fact it's not abuse at all. it's like tv advertisements. > > 'malware and virusses' all simply exploit the same old > services 'provided' by crappy windows malware, which should > get some import restrictions, and the problem is solved ay. > it's windows itself that is the malware there... > > 'phishing'... so you're saying your bank login procedure > sucks balls and/or you think 16 numbers on the front and 3 > top secret ones on the back of a plastic card people show in > every restaurant they go to are 'security' - go fix your own > crap and stop bothering us, we forward -packets-. we don't > have time to hunt ghosts for your broken financial services. > > 'announcing the whole god damn internet split up into > /24s'.. - yes .. that's 'abuse'. lol. > > and either way... if someone doesn't like what someone else > is doing they can take them to the -appropriate- courts (of > the other party) and try to get them to stop... blackmailing > the sales department of the transit carriers of their > supplier of their supplier of their supplier, will only make > them change isps, cause financial loss (or gains: setup > fees), etc. > > so far all spamhaus has ever established is: > > - a whole lot of unroutable/unsellable/unusable ipv4 > 'burned' ranges. > > - smtp is no longer peer to peer (their bashing on open relays) > > - smtp is no longer real time (graylisting) > > - smtp is no longer reliable (with over 20 million ip > addresses listed despite there only being 300k mailservers > in the world, no wonder!) > > so instead of stopping spam, they managed to kill of smtp. > congratulations. > > everyone now uses skype and facebook (which are real-time > and do have friends-lists) lolol. you have succeeded in > bringing microsoft and facebook users to spy on. well done. > > if smtp is 'getting less' that is only because it has no > users left. people only start it up to read ripe > mailinglists (lol) or sign up for habbo hotel. FACT. lol. > > none of our customers has ever sent UCE from our networks... > because... ever since 2004... we have simply blocked port > 25... smtp only causes -shit- and it -delivers shit- > (abusemail and 'legal' threats about shit that is not our > problem). we sure as hell have some customers that cause > 'shit' but they usually do it in somewhat more profitable > markets than sending 'spam' and most definately can buy a tv > station or 2 to do their advertisements on. tyvm spamhaus. lol. > > where this 'mytical' spammer that can pay our 1000-1500 > euros per month per server would come from, i don't know, i > certainly have never met any... i tried to invoice one 60k > once and he backed off already. poor spammers. they're like > child porn people. can't pay for anything, so not an urgent > issue at all. > > our customers frequently have the entire fucking cia rolling > over their doorstep and if it's not them its the god damn > copyright mafia. slightly different budgetarial picture > there. shit that -is- worth the trouble. > > now, please take your shitty nagging about 'abuse' of your > crappy silly old smtp protocol, which doesn't even > -originate- from our networks in the first fucking place, > and stick it where the sun doesn't shine... as for > malware... windows is the malware there... it facilitates > all the programs residing on top of the same old 1990s badly > implemented os/2 ripoff crap. so basically call mickeysoft > and ask them to fix the bugs they all exploit, or call the > european commission and impose trade bans against microsoft. > simple enough. > > > On 30 ينا, 2017 م 12:13, HRH Prince Sven Olaf von > CyberBunker wrote: >> >> advertising the sale of : viagra, sex slaves, ak47s, porn >> of any kind, human trafficing services, specific animals, >> cocain, data obtained through espionage, encryption >> technology, vpns, gay propaganda, military propaganda, etc >> is subject to applicable local law (if any, and if there is >> none, it's perfectly fine)... not 'spamhaus policies' as >> spamhaus is not supposed to be 'the internet government'. >> even if they think they should be. >> >> if the uk wants to keep certain products from entering >> 'their' territory (and in doing so limit the freedom of >> their own stakeholders/tax payers) that is up to them >> others choose not to work against their own >> stakeholders/tax payers that way. they have a customs >> department to keep said products outside. can't tell others >> not to produce or sell or advertise it. setting up dirty >> front operations like 'spamhaus' to lure naive nerds into >> the illusion that they would be 'fighting spam' is a very >> nasty thing to do. geo-political wise and business wise. >> >> now... in thailand porn is illegal... so... let's >> disconnect all porn sites because thailand wants us to, oh >> but wait, thailand doesn't have a 'spamhaus' thinking they >> rule the entire internet through means of blackmail and >> calling people 'spammers' or 'spam supporters'. >> >> what also works, besides blackmailing with committing >> computer sabotage against the sales department of suppliers >> of suppliers of suppliers of the publisher of a website, >> are: assassins, commandos, carpet bombing, agent orange. >> etc... all of which should be deployed against spamhaus if >> you ask me. :P but a nullroute would suffice. lol. after >> all bgp is an 'advisory' to 'voluntary peers' and 'we don't >> block anything' as they themselves always say. >> >> >> On 30 ينا, 2017 ص 11:29, Esa Laitinen wrote: >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 12:19 PM HRH Prince Sven Olaf von >>> CyberBunker <svenk@xs4all.nl <mailto:svenk@xs4all.nl>> wrote: >>> >>> also it's quite vague that when some mossadis rent >>> servers and run an espionage botnet on it (which we >>> happily intercept ourselves ofcourse) - spamhaus >>> somehow magically never lists -that-.. just >>> >>> >>> >>> Looking at the amusing rant of Sven Olaf, it seems that >>> the listing works! >>> >>> Keep up the good work, spamhaus et al! >>> >>> esa >> >
On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 13:21:54 +0000 HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker <svenk@xs4all.nl> wrote:
smtp is just one of many protocols out there, a primitive, fairly unimportant and severely lacking in terms of security one at that, and it's protection cannot be a reason for any disconnection -ever-.
This thread is about DNSBL and not about the smtp protocol but the replies helped us all understand why it is important to permanently list entire IP ranges. (Even if the resources change hands) Personally, I think that block times should be increased or become more permanent. Practically and right now, some of the block lists that I feed data into is talking about discontinuing 24 hour blocks completely and moving to much longer block times. Other lists are considering completely discontinuing auto de-listing. The effect of this will mean that abuse@ will have to become more responsive in order to avoid being more permanently listed. Andre
On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 12:30:13 +0000 HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker <svenk@xs4all.nl> wrote:
now, please take your shitty nagging about 'abuse' of your crappy silly old smtp protocol, which doesn't even -originate- from our networks in the first fucking place, and stick it where the sun doesn't shine... as for malware... windows is the malware there... it <snip snip>
You are obviously an intelligent person and I am sure you have a lot to contribute to an emailing list discussing abuse involving smtp where you have subscribed using smtp, etc etc. What would really help (instead of simply /dev/null) would be some type of structure to your rantings as some of it seems actually valuable and important but it is mixed in with so much bullshit that it is too much work and effort to separate the shit from the gold. Is your problem with RBL's in general? - Are you saying that all DNSBL is evil? or just Spamhaus? You obviously have not nulled all 25 - as poc of your 194.109.24.25:25 is well functional :) Also, maybe for clarity - Not all DNSBL uses pre emtive blocking, as we established Simon Forster said that "All DNSBL are not the same" Sorry to be asking something which you may already have said in your long rants somewhere, just that it will take too long to read all the crap you wrote - easier to just ask :) Andre
if the uk wants war that badly they are kindly invited to come out of the closet and skip the hiding behind fake operations without offices such as 'spamhaus'. On 30 ينا, 2017 ص 11:29, Esa Laitinen wrote:
On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 12:19 PM HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker <svenk@xs4all.nl <mailto:svenk@xs4all.nl>> wrote:
also it's quite vague that when some mossadis rent servers and run an espionage botnet on it (which we happily intercept ourselves ofcourse) - spamhaus somehow magically never lists -that-.. just
Looking at the amusing rant of Sven Olaf, it seems that the listing works!
Keep up the good work, spamhaus et al!
esa
participants (5)
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Esa Laitinen -
HRH Prince Sven Olaf von CyberBunker -
ox -
Sergey -
Tobias Knecht