Re: [anti-abuse-wg] WG Chair Mailing List Decision
Hi Shane, I used the KKK as a bad taste metaphor to match the previous KKKKKKK laugh. Look, *learn to live with the contradictory* does not mean that you have to accept any action... Note that this WG Chair Mailing List Decision is not discussing *actions* but ideas, comments and insults. What I wrote could also be said as follows, plagiarizing Evelyn B. Hall about Voltaire: I may not agree to any of the words you say, but I will defend to the death the right of you to say them. Censorship can not exist. It existed in the most negative periods of human history. We can not go back. Who use freedom of expression improperly, will answer for their actions in the courts. The WG is not a court, the co-chair is not a judge and the members are not a jury. I have stated that there are many ISPs who act as criminals and / or are accomplices to criminal customers. I can say that because I have proof. It is quite suspect someone claims should be banned from the group who are calling the ISPs of criminals. He should ask for evidence of this crime. Simply banishing, blocking, curtailing, is a fascist and suspicious attitude. But I will defend to the death the right of him to say it. Shane, I hope I have clarified my position better. Greetings Marilson From: Shane Kerr Sent: Friday, February 17, 2017 10:41 AM To: Marilson Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] WG Chair Mailing List Decision
Hi, On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 12:44:16PM -0200, Marilson wrote:
I may not agree to any of the words you say, but I will defend to the death the right of you to say them.
There is a fine line between "freedom of speech" and "violating the freedom of others". Anyone should be free to state their opinions. As should anyone be free to *not listen*. Nobody has the right to personally attack others - or force others to listen to his droning on, by filling their listening channels.
Censorship can not exist. It existed in the most negative periods of human history. We can not go back. Who use freedom of expression improperly, will answer for their actions in the courts. The WG is not a court, the co-chair is not a judge and the members are not a jury.
This list is like a private club. Yes, anyone can state their opinion, but if they start to annoy the other patrons, the landlord is free to ask them to state their opinion elsewhere. Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279
On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 04:19:15PM +0100, Gert Doering wrote:
There is a fine line between "freedom of speech" and "violating the freedom of others".
An argument used exclusively by wannabe censors over the centuries. I consider it discredited.
Anyone should be free to state their opinions.
Correct
As should anyone be free to *not listen*.
Correct But, and therein lies your fallacy: Nobody has the right to force others not to listen.
Nobody has the right to personally attack others - or force others to listen to his droning on, by filling their listening channels.
This is not comparable. You cannot always avoid listening to "noise", but anyone is capable of *not* reading those posts, as I have not done until "forced" to by having to look for non-existant evidence of some accusations made. In fact I don't read the great majority of posts on the list. As I am free to do.
This list is like a private club. Yes, anyone can state their opinion, but if they start to annoy the other patrons, the landlord is free to ask them to state their opinion elsewhere.
Since I own part of this club, I *am* one of the landlords and my opinion, let alone permission, was not asked. Maybe it's time to fire the bouncer. rgds, Sascha Luck
Dear Gert, Your speech is confusing and ambiguous. Cohesion and Coherence are fundamental in textual construction. Coherence is the logical relation of the ideas of a text that derives from its argument - a result of the knowledge of the message transmitter. A contradictory and redundant text is an incoherent text. Your text resembles this phrase: "He is a vegetarian and likes a juicy steak." There is a famous saying from the United States Supreme Court: Absolutely no one has the freedom to falsely shout fire in a theater and create panic. That fine line between "freedom of speech" and "violating the freedom of others" is based on the same directives that dictate the laws: common sense and habits and customs of the time. I never scream "fire", I always complain with evidence. But you're screaming "fire" where there is no fire. I wonder why?
Nobody has the right to personally attack others - or force others to listen to his droning on, by filling their listening channels.
You are attacking me because I said: "I may not agree to any of the words you say, but I will defend to the death the right of you to say them." Or because I said that your colleagues, ISP owners, are criminals? Do you have listening channels in your eyes? I suggest that you cover your eyes not to listen to my voice messages. Freedom of information concerns the individual right to freely communicate facts and the diffuse right to be informed of them; Freedom of expression, in turn, is intended to protect the right to express ideas, opinions, judgments of value, in short, any manifestation of human thought. But both require *real events* as basis. Perhaps that is why US law, the European Convention on Human Rights (Article 10.1) and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (Article 19) treat the two freedoms together. I've been attacked several times, as I am now, and no one says shit.
This list is like a private club. Yes, anyone can state their opinion, but if they start to annoy the other patrons, the landlord is free to ask them to state their opinion elsewhere.
This list is not a private club. It is open to anyone from any part of the planet. But the effort to turn it into a private club is visible. Shane, congratulações pelo Mozilla Open Source Support award to Kea. Marilson From: Gert Doering Sent: Friday, February 17, 2017 1:19 PM To: Marilson Cc: Shane Kerr ; anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] WG Chair Mailing List Decision
participants (3)
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Gert Doering -
Marilson -
Sascha Luck [ml]