Suggestion to replace IPv4 waiting list with auctions
Greetings, in todays WG session Marco Schmidt pointed out that more than half of the /24s allocated from the waiting list pool go to members with multiple LIRs. The number of newly created LIRs eligible for a /24 has increased a lot in recent months, to the point where requests can no longer be filled from the available pool but new LIRs have to wait for blocks coming out of quarantine. This change appears to be due to market value for IPv4 blocks being now significantly larger than the cost for creating a new LIR and maintaining it for the two year holding period. The result of this is that newcomers have no easy access to a first IPv4 block but have to wait in line together with multi-LIR address hoarders, defeating the purpose of the waiting list policy. I suggest to replace the waiting list with the following system: - /24s becoming available are put to an auction. - every interested member organisation (NOT: LIR) can make a bid of an amount that is not visible to the other bidders. - highest bid wins. Expected result would be less requests from address hoarders because they could get address blocks for a similar price on the open market without the additional overhead of creating a new member. Newcomers on the other hand would have to become members to be able to hold addresses in the first place, and can use the auction to get access to a properly quarantined address block to start their business. Regards, Wolfgang Zenker -- punkt.de GmbH Tel. +49 721 9109-500 Fax: -100 .infrastructure info@punkt.de https://infrastructure.punkt.de/ Kaiserallee 13a CEO: Jürgen Egeling, Daniel Lienert, Fabian Stein D-76133 Karlsruhe AG Mannheim HRB 108285
Hi, How does it work with EU and Dutch sanctions regulations? Regards, Arash Naderpour On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 7:52 AM Wolfgang Zenker <zenker@punkt.de> wrote:
Greetings,
in todays WG session Marco Schmidt pointed out that more than half of the /24s allocated from the waiting list pool go to members with multiple LIRs. The number of newly created LIRs eligible for a /24 has increased a lot in recent months, to the point where requests can no longer be filled from the available pool but new LIRs have to wait for blocks coming out of quarantine. This change appears to be due to market value for IPv4 blocks being now significantly larger than the cost for creating a new LIR and maintaining it for the two year holding period. The result of this is that newcomers have no easy access to a first IPv4 block but have to wait in line together with multi-LIR address hoarders, defeating the purpose of the waiting list policy.
I suggest to replace the waiting list with the following system: - /24s becoming available are put to an auction. - every interested member organisation (NOT: LIR) can make a bid of an amount that is not visible to the other bidders. - highest bid wins.
Expected result would be less requests from address hoarders because they could get address blocks for a similar price on the open market without the additional overhead of creating a new member. Newcomers on the other hand would have to become members to be able to hold addresses in the first place, and can use the auction to get access to a properly quarantined address block to start their business.
Regards, Wolfgang Zenker -- punkt.de GmbH Tel. +49 721 9109-500 Fax: -100 .infrastructure info@punkt.de https://infrastructure.punkt.de/ Kaiserallee 13a CEO: Jürgen Egeling, Daniel Lienert, Fabian Stein D-76133 Karlsruhe AG Mannheim HRB 108285
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Good morning, Am Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 11:33:40AM +1100 schrieb Arash Naderpour:
How does it work with EU and Dutch sanctions regulations?
I don't know. How does the current system work with the sanctions regime?
On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 7:52 AM Wolfgang Zenker <zenker@punkt.de> wrote:
in todays WG session Marco Schmidt pointed out that more than half of the /24s allocated from the waiting list pool go to members with multiple LIRs. The number of newly created LIRs eligible for a /24 has increased a lot in recent months, to the point where requests can no longer be filled from the available pool but new LIRs have to wait for blocks coming out of quarantine. This change appears to be due to market value for IPv4 blocks being now significantly larger than the cost for creating a new LIR and maintaining it for the two year holding period. The result of this is that newcomers have no easy access to a first IPv4 block but have to wait in line together with multi-LIR address hoarders, defeating the purpose of the waiting list policy.
I suggest to replace the waiting list with the following system: - /24s becoming available are put to an auction. - every interested member organisation (NOT: LIR) can make a bid of an amount that is not visible to the other bidders. - highest bid wins.
Expected result would be less requests from address hoarders because they could get address blocks for a similar price on the open market without the additional overhead of creating a new member. Newcomers on the other hand would have to become members to be able to hold addresses in the first place, and can use the auction to get access to a properly quarantined address block to start their business.
Regards, Wolfgang Zenker -- punkt.de GmbH Tel. +49 721 9109-500 Fax: -100 .infrastructure info@punkt.de https://infrastructure.punkt.de/ Kaiserallee 13a CEO: Jürgen Egeling, Daniel Lienert, Fabian Stein D-76133 Karlsruhe AG Mannheim HRB 108285
I don't think this will work and it not fair. Those resources should be provided only to new-entrants not new-LIRs from exisiting members. Regards, Jordi @jordipalet El 23/11/21 21:53, "address-policy-wg en nombre de Wolfgang Zenker" <address-policy-wg-bounces@ripe.net en nombre de zenker@punkt.de> escribió: Greetings, in todays WG session Marco Schmidt pointed out that more than half of the /24s allocated from the waiting list pool go to members with multiple LIRs. The number of newly created LIRs eligible for a /24 has increased a lot in recent months, to the point where requests can no longer be filled from the available pool but new LIRs have to wait for blocks coming out of quarantine. This change appears to be due to market value for IPv4 blocks being now significantly larger than the cost for creating a new LIR and maintaining it for the two year holding period. The result of this is that newcomers have no easy access to a first IPv4 block but have to wait in line together with multi-LIR address hoarders, defeating the purpose of the waiting list policy. I suggest to replace the waiting list with the following system: - /24s becoming available are put to an auction. - every interested member organisation (NOT: LIR) can make a bid of an amount that is not visible to the other bidders. - highest bid wins. Expected result would be less requests from address hoarders because they could get address blocks for a similar price on the open market without the additional overhead of creating a new member. Newcomers on the other hand would have to become members to be able to hold addresses in the first place, and can use the auction to get access to a properly quarantined address block to start their business. Regards, Wolfgang Zenker -- punkt.de GmbH Tel. +49 721 9109-500 Fax: -100 .infrastructure info@punkt.de https://infrastructure.punkt.de/ Kaiserallee 13a CEO: Jürgen Egeling, Daniel Lienert, Fabian Stein D-76133 Karlsruhe AG Mannheim HRB 108285 To unsubscribe from this mailing list, get a password reminder, or change your subscription options, please visit: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/address-policy-wg ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.
Hi, On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 11:30:06AM +0100, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via address-policy-wg wrote:
I don't think this will work and it not fair.
Those resources should be provided only to new-entrants not new-LIRs from exisiting members.
That's a nice solution. Just have a checkmark on the "new LIR" form that says [ ] this is a new LIR and not related to any other LIR having IPv4 space and people would certainly fill this in correctly. Surely? Gert Doering -- professional pessimist -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard, Michael Emmer Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279
Yes, the people can try to cheat, but that's why the NCC verify documents, etc., right? El 24/11/21 11:35, "address-policy-wg en nombre de Gert Doering" <address-policy-wg-bounces@ripe.net en nombre de gert@space.net> escribió: Hi, On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 11:30:06AM +0100, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via address-policy-wg wrote: > I don't think this will work and it not fair. > > Those resources should be provided only to new-entrants not new-LIRs from exisiting members. That's a nice solution. Just have a checkmark on the "new LIR" form that says [ ] this is a new LIR and not related to any other LIR having IPv4 space and people would certainly fill this in correctly. Surely? Gert Doering -- professional pessimist -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard, Michael Emmer Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279 To unsubscribe from this mailing list, get a password reminder, or change your subscription options, please visit: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/address-policy-wg ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.
Hi, On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 11:38:48AM +0100, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via address-policy-wg wrote:
Yes, the people can try to cheat, but that's why the NCC verify documents, etc., right?
So, instead of opening a new LIR under "SpaceNet AG", I register a new UK umbrella company under the name of "My New LIR Ltd". This one would then apply for a new RIPE membership. How do you know it's "SpaceNet AG" trying to sneak in and get more space? I've said that before: we've been there before - the "restrict multiple LIR accounts" approach leads to "those people that are in for the easy monay and do not care for anything else" will just register new companies with a new name for every new LIR. Nothing won, but database accuracy suffers, because you can't see the real owner anymore. Thus, having a checkbox on the application form might actually do more good - people will still cheat, but it won't harm the registry. Gert Doering -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard, Michael Emmer Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279
If it is a new company and "not related" to the previous one, no way to verify the "cheating". If it is "subsidiary", the constitution document say it. Yes, it can be bypassed, but the staff can confirm if it is being done that way in most of the cases or if it is different business units or subsidiaries of the same "original" LIR. Regards, Jordi @jordipalet El 24/11/21 11:45, "address-policy-wg en nombre de Gert Doering" <address-policy-wg-bounces@ripe.net en nombre de gert@space.net> escribió: Hi, On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 11:38:48AM +0100, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via address-policy-wg wrote: > Yes, the people can try to cheat, but that's why the NCC verify documents, etc., right? So, instead of opening a new LIR under "SpaceNet AG", I register a new UK umbrella company under the name of "My New LIR Ltd". This one would then apply for a new RIPE membership. How do you know it's "SpaceNet AG" trying to sneak in and get more space? I've said that before: we've been there before - the "restrict multiple LIR accounts" approach leads to "those people that are in for the easy monay and do not care for anything else" will just register new companies with a new name for every new LIR. Nothing won, but database accuracy suffers, because you can't see the real owner anymore. Thus, having a checkbox on the application form might actually do more good - people will still cheat, but it won't harm the registry. Gert Doering -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard, Michael Emmer Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279 To unsubscribe from this mailing list, get a password reminder, or change your subscription options, please visit: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/address-policy-wg ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.
RIPE NCC service region contains ~75 countries. Each country has somewhat different rules for company registration. And of course, owners of these companies also can come outside of this region. Even in real bussiness is often hard to track real owner of particular organisation nor links between multiple organisations. No, it isn't easy to track this. And it will be very expensive. - Daniel On 11/24/21 12:02, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via address-policy-wg wrote:
If it is a new company and "not related" to the previous one, no way to verify the "cheating". If it is "subsidiary", the constitution document say it.
Yes, it can be bypassed, but the staff can confirm if it is being done that way in most of the cases or if it is different business units or subsidiaries of the same "original" LIR.
Hi Daniel, RIPE NCC service all over the world, even if the company is registered our of RIPE region, they can still apply for LIR. Regards, Guo -----Original Message----- From: address-policy-wg <address-policy-wg-bounces@ripe.net> On Behalf Of Daniel Suchy via address-policy-wg Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2021 7:14 PM To: address-policy-wg@ripe.net Cc: Daniel Suchy <danny@danysek.cz> Subject: Re: [address-policy-wg] Suggestion to replace IPv4 waiting list with auctions RIPE NCC service region contains ~75 countries. Each country has somewhat different rules for company registration. And of course, owners of these companies also can come outside of this region. Even in real bussiness is often hard to track real owner of particular organisation nor links between multiple organisations. No, it isn't easy to track this. And it will be very expensive. - Daniel On 11/24/21 12:02, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via address-policy-wg wrote:
If it is a new company and "not related" to the previous one, no way to verify the "cheating". If it is "subsidiary", the constitution document say it.
Yes, it can be bypassed, but the staff can confirm if it is being done that way in most of the cases or if it is different business units or subsidiaries of the same "original" LIR.
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Hello! After writing my previous reply to this conversation, i had a random thought. Maybe as an alternative to complex, overreaching and probably impossible to enforce policy,... we could go the opposite route. - How many /24s can are still avalible for allocation? - How many LIR accounts are there currently? If there is avaliblity to cover it, we could just give every current LIR a /24 and instantly "remove" the "pool". Thus same chances for everyone and there is no more discussion. Weird Other thought: If we dont have enough /24's to cover, or we end with an uneven number remaining, we could do a lottery. It all just leads to where we will get eventually anyhow. Regards Sebastian Graf Gert Doering writes:
Hi,
On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 11:38:48AM +0100, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via address- policy-wg wrote:
Yes, the people can try to cheat, but that's why the NCC verify documents, etc., right?
So, instead of opening a new LIR under "SpaceNet AG", I register a new UK umbrella company under the name of "My New LIR Ltd".
This one would then apply for a new RIPE membership.
How do you know it's "SpaceNet AG" trying to sneak in and get more space?
I've said that before: we've been there before - the "restrict multiple LIR accounts" approach leads to "those people that are in for the easy monay and do not care for anything else" will just register new companies with a new name for every new LIR. Nothing won, but database accuracy suffers, because you can't see the real owner anymore.
Thus, having a checkbox on the application form might actually do more good - people will still cheat, but it won't harm the registry.
Gert Doering -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...?
SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard, Michael Emmer Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279
Hi, I think just handing out all or doing a lottery is a really bad idea. I think the best way is simply to realize that there is no perfect or even particularly good way to deal with this and the current system is probably the best we can reasonably have. The true solution will be more IPv6 implementation. -Cynthia On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 12:32 PM Sebastian-Wilhelm Graf < ripe-lists@sebastian-graf.at> wrote:
Hello!
After writing my previous reply to this conversation, i had a random thought. Maybe as an alternative to complex, overreaching and probably impossible to enforce policy,... we could go the opposite route.
- How many /24s can are still avalible for allocation? - How many LIR accounts are there currently?
If there is avaliblity to cover it, we could just give every current LIR a /24 and instantly "remove" the "pool". Thus same chances for everyone and there is no more discussion.
Weird Other thought: If we dont have enough /24's to cover, or we end with an uneven number remaining, we could do a lottery.
It all just leads to where we will get eventually anyhow.
Regards Sebastian Graf
Gert Doering writes:
Hi,
On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 11:38:48AM +0100, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via address- policy-wg wrote:
Yes, the people can try to cheat, but that's why the NCC verify documents, etc., right?
So, instead of opening a new LIR under "SpaceNet AG", I register a new UK umbrella company under the name of "My New LIR Ltd".
This one would then apply for a new RIPE membership.
How do you know it's "SpaceNet AG" trying to sneak in and get more space?
I've said that before: we've been there before - the "restrict multiple LIR accounts" approach leads to "those people that are in for the easy monay and do not care for anything else" will just register new companies with a new name for every new LIR. Nothing won, but database accuracy suffers, because you can't see the real owner anymore.
Thus, having a checkbox on the application form might actually do more good - people will still cheat, but it won't harm the registry.
Gert Doering -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...?
SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard, Michael Emmer Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279
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Hello! I have been considering different ideas how to implement a good system. That improves the current resource-distribution system. Because i think we can all agree that we should only implement changes that provide a significant improvement over the current situation. Sadly i have failed to find language that would achieve the goal. Lets try define some scenarios and clearly outline what we are trying to solve and what the side-effects are. To me it appears the "issue" at hand is that some members feel that new LIRs will suffer from a reduced chance to recieve a /24 in the future. *) Auction mode suggestion: Realistically, this means, that in the short term this will disrupt the "aftermarket", but i do not think the amount of requests will go down. In fact, it may have the opposite effect. As its more convienient and represents less "risk" than a transaction via broker. *) Only new members can request a /24 This instantly you down the road of evaluating and clawing for proof/documentation without a good method of verification. Lets face the fact that its easy to spin off new businesses. So instead of the "main company" sending the request, now you get an influx of newly formed companies (ie a LLC creats 5 LLCs for sub parts of its business, maybe one per location?). Are any of those "non legimiate"? How do you define a verification process for that (asset based? if yes, what if they hold colocation contracts+server+router hardware"?....) If we severely limit based on company ownership, or,.. then we quickly go down the path of "free will" assignments vs an exactly defined process/path. Alternativly: all i see is a lot of database polution without any real value being added. ..... If we cannot find language to guarantee a clear guideline for new assignments, where the positive effects outway the negative consequences, then: I think we should just accept the fact that we will likely not improve the current situation. Especially in the context of the current state of things, where a few years down the road, there will be no alternative to said "aftermarket". Regards Sebastian Graf JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via address-policy-wg writes:
I don't think this will work and it not fair.
Those resources should be provided only to new-entrants not new-LIRs from exisiting members.
Regards, Jordi @jordipalet
El 23/11/21 21:53, "address-policy-wg en nombre de Wolfgang Zenker" <address- policy-wg-bounces@ripe.net en nombre de zenker@punkt.de> escribió:
Greetings,
in todays WG session Marco Schmidt pointed out that more than half of the /24s allocated from the waiting list pool go to members with multiple LIRs. The number of newly created LIRs eligible for a /24 has increased a lot in recent months, to the point where requests can no longer be filled from the available pool but new LIRs have to wait for blocks coming out of quarantine. This change appears to be due to market value for IPv4 blocks being now significantly larger than the cost for creating a new LIR and maintaining it for the two year holding period. The result of this is that newcomers have no easy access to a first IPv4 block but have to wait in line together with multi-LIR address hoarders, defeating the purpose of the waiting list policy.
I suggest to replace the waiting list with the following system: - /24s becoming available are put to an auction. - every interested member organisation (NOT: LIR) can make a bid of an amount that is not visible to the other bidders. - highest bid wins.
Expected result would be less requests from address hoarders because they could get address blocks for a similar price on the open market without the additional overhead of creating a new member. Newcomers on the other hand would have to become members to be able to hold addresses in the first place, and can use the auction to get access to a properly quarantined address block to start their business.
Regards, Wolfgang Zenker -- punkt.de GmbH Tel. +49 721 9109-500 Fax: -100 .infrastructure info@punkt.de https://infrastructure.punkt.de/ Kaiserallee 13a CEO: Jürgen Egeling, Daniel Lienert, Fabian Stein D-76133 Karlsruhe AG Mannheim HRB 108285
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********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company
This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.
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An existing member can register a new entity to apply as a new member. And it is legally a different entity and no one can stop them from getting a new membership, and a new /24... We have been here before... Regards, Arash On Wed, 24 Nov 2021, 21:30 JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via address-policy-wg, < address-policy-wg@ripe.net> wrote:
I don't think this will work and it not fair.
Those resources should be provided only to new-entrants not new-LIRs from exisiting members.
Regards, Jordi @jordipalet
El 23/11/21 21:53, "address-policy-wg en nombre de Wolfgang Zenker" < address-policy-wg-bounces@ripe.net en nombre de zenker@punkt.de> escribió:
Greetings,
in todays WG session Marco Schmidt pointed out that more than half of the /24s allocated from the waiting list pool go to members with multiple LIRs. The number of newly created LIRs eligible for a /24 has increased a lot in recent months, to the point where requests can no longer be filled from the available pool but new LIRs have to wait for blocks coming out of quarantine. This change appears to be due to market value for IPv4 blocks being now significantly larger than the cost for creating a new LIR and maintaining it for the two year holding period. The result of this is that newcomers have no easy access to a first IPv4 block but have to wait in line together with multi-LIR address hoarders, defeating the purpose of the waiting list policy.
I suggest to replace the waiting list with the following system: - /24s becoming available are put to an auction. - every interested member organisation (NOT: LIR) can make a bid of an amount that is not visible to the other bidders. - highest bid wins.
Expected result would be less requests from address hoarders because they could get address blocks for a similar price on the open market without the additional overhead of creating a new member. Newcomers on the other hand would have to become members to be able to hold addresses in the first place, and can use the auction to get access to a properly quarantined address block to start their business.
Regards, Wolfgang Zenker -- punkt.de GmbH Tel. +49 721 9109-500 Fax: -100 .infrastructure info@punkt.de https://infrastructure.punkt.de/ Kaiserallee 13a CEO: Jürgen Egeling, Daniel Lienert, Fabian Stein D-76133 Karlsruhe AG Mannheim HRB 108285
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This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.
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participants (8)
-
Arash Naderpour -
Cynthia Revström -
Daniel Suchy -
David Guo -
Gert Doering -
JORDI PALET MARTINEZ -
Sebastian-Wilhelm Graf -
Wolfgang Zenker