On Monday, May 18, 1998 3:22 AM, Michael Dillon[SMTP:michael at memra.com] wrote: @On Mon, 18 May 1998, Jim Fleming wrote: @ @> @Jim is what one science fiction story termed an "agent provocateur" (where, @> @when the world is totally wired and everyone is on email, along comes a @> @person who talks the talk and walks the walk but is a bit demented and only @> @a few people can see thru his techno-mumbo-jumbo as being garbage). His @> @purpose in life is to drum up controversy and to have people run off in @> @directions that are unproductive. @ @It is my studied opinion that Jim Fleming is not demented, that he has a @specific goal in his provocateur activities and that he is likely being @paid to do this by the U.S. telco industry. His goal is to discredit the @Internet governance infrastructure in order to manipulate the U.S. @government into creating an FCC-like regulatory infrastructure for the @Internet. The U.S. telcos (and indeed national PTTs the world over) like @this sort of structure because they know that, with it they can control @the Internet by the same sorts of political manoeuverings they have @perfected over the past several generations. @ @So Hank is basically right that the best response is to take some time to @do more talking to government. However don't be misled by Jim's email spew @into thinking that a few emails to the right places will suffice. It is @far more effective to take the time to write a cogent discussion of the @issues and then snail-mail the document to the government agency. Or to @visit them in person for a face-to-face discussion. @ @-- @Michael Dillon - Internet & ISP Consulting @Memra Communications Inc. - E-mail: michael at memra.com @http://www.memra.com - *check out the new name & new website* @ @ Michael, Your participation in the development of the IAHC/CORE plan and Hank Nussbacher's role as a member of the IAHC committee are well known. Also, your involvement with the creation of ARIN and your role on the ARIN Advisory Council are well known. Also, your various attempts to commute from Canada and to work in the United States are well known. Your constant focus on the U.S. ISP marketplace is well known. Why don't you become a U.S. citizen ? Then you could have a larger voice with the U.S. Government. If that is not your pleasure, then I suggest that you lobby the Canadian government to carry your message to the U.S. Government. As for Mr. Nussbacher. He seems concerned that his voice is not being heard in Israel. Despite this, he clearly does not want other voices to be heard. Here is one small example. I selected this example because Mr. Nussbacher was recently trying to convince Annie Renard the .FR (France) TLD administrator not to listen to me. =================================== From: hank at interall.co.il (Hank Nussbacher) Subject: Re: CFV (Call for Votes) : Creation of the israel.francophones newsgroup Date: 18 Dec 1997 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: <67bius$prk$1 at news.ibm.net.il> References: <3498F1B2.76DC at hotmail.com> <34993150.DF81644B at orbotech.co.il> Organization: Hank Nussbacher, consulting Newsgroups: israel.news.admin I vote against. Why not use IRC to talk frenchto each other? Why does there have to be a newsgroup to talk in French? -Hank =================================== In all of these cases, it seems clear that we have people like yourself and Mr. Nussbacher who are not working via their governments to make sure your voices are heard. Instead, you seem to think that you can enter the U.S. via electronic networks to dominate this marketplace and the U.S. Government. I have a feeling that the U.S. Government is on the look-out for this type of activity and will listen to their taxpayers before you or Mr. Nussbacher. If they do not, they then have to deal with U.S. taxpayers at the next election or in person. As a U.S. citizen and U.S. taxpayer my recommendation is for the U.S. Government to start dealing with other governments. This will allow them to have the Canadian government present a more balanced view from your country. Likewise, the same can be said for Israel. I encourage you to follow your own advice and contact YOUR government officials. Let the U.S. taxpayers and government officials work together on our own plan. We will let you know how it comes out. - Jim Fleming Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.net IPv8 - Designed for the Rest of the Human Race AM Radio Stations ---> http://www.DOT.AM -------- Logged at Mon May 18 18:47:34 MET DST 1998 ---------
My dear fellows... To my knowledge this thread has been penned by a couple of also rans and has beens that do not know the man, Jim Fleming, and respect his unique insight on technology and organization. Knowing Jim personally, although I do not agree with his political view of the world lock-step, I would never ridicule his banterings as being non-productive. They are definitely insightful and, indeed in a perfect world, incredibly usefull. I would suggest Hank and Michael take a close look at their own careers and notariety befor lobbing more bricks. I have my enemies too but I would never ridicule Dave Crocker as not having a clue about anything he gets paid to due, obviously he makes a living at it so somebody thinks he knows what he is doing. The same standard applies to Jim and everyone else. Marc. -------- Logged at Mon May 18 19:27:37 MET DST 1998 ---------
One point/question remains unanswered from Michael Dillon's email. Are you in fact being paid directly or indrectly from any company or organization to continue these discussions and try to discredit the current system/organizations that are in place for IPv4 addressing? What do you hope in attaining thourgh all these talks if you are not being influeneced in continuing them? Should I assume that the whole point of bringing this whole talk to light was the announcement of ARIN's revenue during the first quarter? Why did you wait till then before you started questioning everything. Scott Averbach Network Analyst Hiway Technologies
-----Original Message----- From: owner-naipr at arin.net [mailto:owner-naipr at arin.net]On Behalf Of Jim Fleming Sent: Monday, May 18, 1998 12:30 PM To: 'Michael Dillon' Cc: Annie Renard; 'BBURR at ntia.doc.gov'; 'Dave Crocker'; 'DOMAIN-POLICY at LISTS.INTERNIC.NET'; 'John Gilmore'; 'Hank Nussbacher'; 'Don Heath'; 'Ira_C._Magaziner at oa.eop.gov'; 'Kent Crispin'; 'Marc Hurst'; 'ARIN list'; 'Richard J. Sexton'; 'Robert L. Shearing'; 'Scott Bradner'; tld-wg at ripe.net; 'vinton g. cerf' Subject: RE: More on Neighbor Net for .WINE
On Monday, May 18, 1998 3:22 AM, Michael Dillon[SMTP:michael at memra.com] wrote: @On Mon, 18 May 1998, Jim Fleming wrote: @ @> @Jim is what one science fiction story termed an "agent provocateur" (where, @> @when the world is totally wired and everyone is on email, along comes a @> @person who talks the talk and walks the walk but is a bit demented and only @> @a few people can see thru his techno-mumbo-jumbo as being garbage). His @> @purpose in life is to drum up controversy and to have people run off in @> @directions that are unproductive. @ @It is my studied opinion that Jim Fleming is not demented, that he has a @specific goal in his provocateur activities and that he is likely being @paid to do this by the U.S. telco industry. His goal is to discredit the @Internet governance infrastructure in order to manipulate the U.S. @government into creating an FCC-like regulatory infrastructure for the @Internet. The U.S. telcos (and indeed national PTTs the world over) like @this sort of structure because they know that, with it they can control @the Internet by the same sorts of political manoeuverings they have @perfected over the past several generations. @ @So Hank is basically right that the best response is to take some time to @do more talking to government. However don't be misled by Jim's email spew @into thinking that a few emails to the right places will suffice. It is @far more effective to take the time to write a cogent discussion of the @issues and then snail-mail the document to the government agency. Or to @visit them in person for a face-to-face discussion. @ @-- @Michael Dillon - Internet & ISP Consulting @Memra Communications Inc. - E-mail: michael at memra.com @http://www.memra.com - *check out the new name & new website* @ @
Michael,
Your participation in the development of the IAHC/CORE plan and Hank Nussbacher's role as a member of the IAHC committee are well known. Also, your involvement with the creation of ARIN and your role on the ARIN Advisory Council are well known. Also, your various attempts to commute from Canada and to work in the United States are well known. Your constant focus on the U.S. ISP marketplace is well known. Why don't you become a U.S. citizen ? Then you could have a larger voice with the U.S. Government. If that is not your pleasure, then I suggest that you lobby the Canadian government to carry your message to the U.S. Government.
As for Mr. Nussbacher. He seems concerned that his voice is not being heard in Israel. Despite this, he clearly does not want other voices to be heard. Here is one small example. I selected this example because Mr. Nussbacher was recently trying to convince Annie Renard the .FR (France) TLD administrator not to listen to me.
===================================
From: hank at interall.co.il (Hank Nussbacher) Subject: Re: CFV (Call for Votes) : Creation of the israel.francophones newsgroup Date: 18 Dec 1997 00:00:00 GMT Message-ID: <67bius$prk$1 at news.ibm.net.il> References: <3498F1B2.76DC at hotmail.com> <34993150.DF81644B at orbotech.co.il> Organization: Hank Nussbacher, consulting Newsgroups: israel.news.admin
I vote against. Why not use IRC to talk frenchto each other? Why does there have to be a newsgroup to talk in French?
-Hank
===================================
In all of these cases, it seems clear that we have people like yourself and Mr. Nussbacher who are not working via their governments to make sure your voices are heard. Instead, you seem to think that you can enter the U.S. via electronic networks to dominate this marketplace and the U.S. Government.
I have a feeling that the U.S. Government is on the look-out for this type of activity and will listen to their taxpayers before you or Mr. Nussbacher. If they do not, they then have to deal with U.S. taxpayers at the next election or in person.
As a U.S. citizen and U.S. taxpayer my recommendation is for the U.S. Government to start dealing with other governments. This will allow them to have the Canadian government present a more balanced view from your country. Likewise, the same can be said for Israel.
I encourage you to follow your own advice and contact YOUR government officials. Let the U.S. taxpayers and government officials work together on our own plan. We will let you know how it comes out.
- Jim Fleming Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.net IPv8 - Designed for the Rest of the Human Race AM Radio Stations ---> http://www.DOT.AM
-------- Logged at Mon May 18 19:51:32 MET DST 1998 ---------
participants (3)
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JimFleming＠unety.net -
mhurst＠fastlane.ca -
saverbac＠hway.net