- tld-wg - mailman.ripe.net

CENTR workshop for ccTLD Managers
by JimFleming＠unety.net 28 Aug '98

28 Aug '98

-----Original Message----- From: Randy Bush <randy at psg.com> To: Jean-Christophe Praud <jc.praud at ludexpress.com> Cc: veni markovski <veni at isoc.bg>; Annie Renard <Annie.Renard at nic.fr>; Hank Nussbacher <hank at ibm.net.il>; Fay Howard <fay at ripe.net>; centr at ripe.net <centr at ripe.net>; centr-info at ripe.net <centr-info at ripe.net>; tld-wg at ripe.net <tld-wg at ripe.net>; 'Artur Grzymala' <artur at zoo.pl>; Adam Todd <at at ah.net>; Jim Fleming <JimFleming at unety.net>; renard at gaillac.inria.fr <renard at gaillac.inria.fr> Date: Friday, August 28, 1998 12:23 PM Subject: Re: CENTR workshop for ccTLD Managers >>>> I don't get it. Why is such a concern about ccTLD, which are different from >>>> the two-letter country codes? >>> because they are an irrelevant fantasy. >> Mmm. Like democracy during absolute monarchy era :o) > >please read rfcs 1033-1035, 2181, etc and notice that it is a hierarchy. > >demagoguery about abstract political theory absent real technical and/or >operational substance is irrelevant fantasy. > That is why eventually people have to come to a complete understanding of who owns and operates the various Root Name Servers Clusters (RSCs) and who owns and operates the various TLD Name Servers, registries and registrars. At the heart of most of this are simple text files. In the end, someone has to be able to edit those files....those are part of the "operational substance". For many people they could start there and skip all of the rest of the fantasies. Jim Fleming Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.com -------- Logged at Sat Aug 29 10:46:08 MET DST 1998 ---------

1 0

CENTR workshop for ccTLD Managers
by veni＠isoc.bg 28 Aug '98

28 Aug '98

It seems I've read the rfc1591 most recently: This means that the same rules are applied to all requests, all requests must be processed in a non-discriminatory fashion, and academic and commercial (and other) users are treated on an equal basis. No bias shall be shown regarding requests that may come from customers of some other business related to the manager -- e.g., no preferential service for customers of a particular data network provider. There can be no requirement that a particular mail system (or other application), protocol, or product be used. and more: Significantly interested parties in the domain should agree that the designated manager is the appropriate party. The IANA tries to have any contending parties reach agreement among themselves, and generally takes no action to change things unless all the contending parties agree; only in cases where the designated manager has substantially mis-behaved would the IANA step in. However, it is also appropriate for interested parties to have some voice in selecting the designated manager. There are two cases where the IANA and the central IR may establish a new top-level domain and delegate only a portion of it: (1) there are contending parties that cannot agree, or (2) the applying party may not be able to represent or serve the whole country. The later case sometimes arises when a party outside a country is trying to be helpful in getting networking started in a country -- this is sometimes called a "proxy" DNS service. === Would you like to comment on that?? It's so obvious, yet you're trying to tell me we are wrong?? === and here's ripe: As for "special case" registries as defined above, it is recommended that where such a registry charges for service, it should, in addition to complying with the recommendations listed above: relate charges to costs of operation and apply all revenues to such costs; regularly publish a budget of its anticipated operating costs and revenue; publish guidelines and apply these uniformly; ensure equality of access to registration services; aim to achieve consensus within the community it serves as to the disposal of any surplus revenues; regularly publish accounts of income and expenditure ; refrain from using their unique position as leverage in any other business venture. I don't really want to comment on that - read it, then visit http://www.bol.bg/protest/ It's not me alone; the .bg TLDA is using their (his, rather) position to gain business from competitors (example was given at the InnternetExpo '98 in Sofia by www.onlin.bg about a customer of theirs which domain name was not registered in time, because they didn't want the .bg TLDA to be their provider), etc., etc., etc., etc....) Veni Markovski, Chairmain, the Internet Society - Bulgaria, http://www.isoc.bg, http://www.bulgaria.com/isoc/, http://www.bol.bg/isoc/ phone: (+359-2) 9809666, phone/fax (+359-2) 9806431 mailing address: p.o.box 71, Sofia 1164, Bulgaria -------- Logged at Fri Aug 28 19:23:36 MET DST 1998 ---------

1 0

BG TLD
by JimFleming＠unety.net 28 Aug '98

28 Aug '98

-----Original Message----- From: Randy Bush <randy at psg.com> To: veni markovski <veni at isoc.bg> Cc: Jim Fleming <JimFleming at unety.net>; E D Danielyan <edd at aic.net>; centr at ripe.net <centr at ripe.net>; tld-wg at ripe.net <tld-wg at ripe.net>; rsctalk at ah.net <rsctalk at ah.net>; bgr at isoc.bg <bgr at isoc.bg> Date: Friday, August 28, 1998 11:25 AM Subject: Re: BG TLD >you want outsiders to 'solve' your internal problem. most countries tend to >object to that. postel's repeated policy, as stated in rfc 1591 is that you >need to resolve your internal problems locally. coming from a country which >has so often been accused of interfering in others' business, i find your >expections rather unexpected. > I think we have all learned that TLDs are domains and not countries. People from one domain can help people from other domains. The Internet is international and crosses geographic boundaries. The boundaries between domains are more distinct. I see several people here from the .NET domain and some from .COM. Some day we will have more diversity in domains and opinions. Jim Fleming Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.com -------- Logged at Sat Aug 29 10:45:31 MET DST 1998 ---------

1 0

CENTR workshop for ccTLD Managers
by JimFleming＠unety.net 28 Aug '98

28 Aug '98

-----Original Message----- From: Randy Bush <randy at psg.com> To: veni markovski <veni at isoc.bg> Cc: Annie Renard <Annie.Renard at nic.fr>; Hank Nussbacher <hank at ibm.net.il>; Jean-Christophe Praud <jc.praud at ludexpress.com>; Fay Howard <fay at ripe.net>; centr at ripe.net <centr at ripe.net>; centr-info at ripe.net <centr-info at ripe.net>; tld-wg at ripe.net <tld-wg at ripe.net>; 'Artur Grzymala' <artur at zoo.pl>; Adam Todd <at at ah.net>; Jim Fleming <JimFleming at unety.net>; renard at gaillac.inria.fr <renard at gaillac.inria.fr> Date: Friday, August 28, 1998 11:00 AM Subject: Re: CENTR workshop for ccTLD Managers >> I don't get it. Why is such a concern about ccTLD, which are different from >> the two-letter country codes? > >because they are an irrelevant fantasy. > >randy > It would be interesting to dig up the numerous postings by people that claimed the IANA was in control of the legacy Root Name Servers. Some have now learned that this was apparently a fantasy. At some point we all have to separate fact from fantasy. We do not seem to be moving in that direction here. Jim Fleming Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.com -------- Logged at Sat Aug 29 10:46:49 MET DST 1998 ---------

1 0

BG TLD
by veni＠isoc.bg 28 Aug '98

28 Aug '98

>I agree and would further suggest that >this be handled in the G3 region as much >as possible with the help of the "neighbor net" >community for the .BG TLD. In a growing >Internet, Jon Postel or a small IANA staff >will not be able to sort out all of the local >issues. People in the "region" can help >with that. That is one of the merits of >socializing these discussions. Well, I believe now that Jon Postel, as well as the current TLDAs have reached an agreement to keep the status quo as long as possible. Just read his mail to me, and then visit the web http://www.bol.bg/protest/ and chosse the English version. It's obvious that: a) he hasn't read them but replied to protect the current .bg TLDA. b) he has read them, but ignored it, to protect the current .bg TLDA. tell me which is the similarity:-) regards, Veni Markovski, Chairmain, the Internet Society - Bulgaria, http://www.isoc.bg, http://www.bulgaria.com/isoc/, http://www.bol.bg/isoc/ phone: (+359-2) 9809666, phone/fax (+359-2) 9806431 mailing address: p.o.box 71, Sofia 1164, Bulgaria -------- Logged at Fri Aug 28 17:43:07 MET DST 1998 ---------

1 0

replace .tw with .rc
by BERI＠etf.bg.ac.yu 28 Aug '98

28 Aug '98

>> could any alternate root server help us to do this? >> ... >> An entry in ISO 3166 like >> China, Republic of RC ROC 158 >> would be right and better. Using an alternate root server, you can do whatever you want, except: (1) You won't change the root zone maintained by the IANA. (2) You cannot change the ISO 3166 table (at all!). To solve (1), you'll have to contact IANA, but they strictly follow the ISO 3166 table. So, you must solve (2) first and that requires an official contact with the ISO 3166 authority from your government. As far as I heard, the authority which has to be contacted is located at DIN offices in Berlin. After your government gets a positive ack from Berlin, you must ask IANA what to do further. Hope this helps. ;-) Regards, Beri .-------. | --+-- | Berislav Todorovic, B.Sc.E.E. | E-mail: BERI at etf.bg.ac.yu | /|\ Hostmaster of the YU TLD | |-(-+-)-| School of Electrical Engineering | Phone: (+381-11) 3221-419 | \|/ Bulevar Revolucije 73 | 3370-106 | --+-- | 11000 Belgrade SERBIA, YUGOSLAVIA | Fax: (+381-11) 3248-681 `-------' -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- Logged at Fri Aug 28 17:38:18 MET DST 1998 ---------

1 0

replace .tw with .rc
by wchao＠post.uni-bielefeld.de 28 Aug '98

28 Aug '98

Hallo, could any alternate root server help us to do this? The official name of Taiwan is "Republic of China"(ROC), not a province of People's Republic of China(PRC), but in the ISO 3166 Taiwan TW TWN 158 They use the data from the UN, which the RC is not a member of. You could visit http://www.gio.gov.tw/ to see the opinion of the goverment. An entry in ISO 3166 like China, Republic of RC ROC 158 would be right and better. How can I change that? Yours sincerely, Wei-Lun Chao -------- Logged at Fri Aug 28 15:36:52 MET DST 1998 ---------

1 0

BG TLD
by JimFleming＠unety.net 28 Aug '98

28 Aug '98

-----Original Message----- From: E D Danielyan <edd at aic.net> To: veni at isoc.bg <veni at isoc.bg> Cc: centr at ripe.net <centr at ripe.net>; tld-wg at ripe.net <tld-wg at ripe.net> Date: Friday, August 28, 1998 4:43 AM Subject: Re: BG TLD > > >Dear Veni: > >> I mean, we (ISOC-Bulgaria) tried everything, and it wouldn't work. The >> current ccTLD system is rotten - at least in the .bg case. Ergo, we have to >> find an alternative. > >With all respect for you, Veni, you do not have to find an alternative - >you have to defend your viewpoint. I'd advise you to forward all correspondence >between you and Dr. Postel to this list for public consideration; afterwards, >if you believe you're right, file wrongful conduct action against BG NIC in >your country and make Internet community in Bulgaria aware of the situation: >if your rights, or rights of public are not honored, it is your and public's >responsibility to defend and enforce them. Internet isn't a monarchy and >Dr. Postel isn't a king. > >Yours >Edgar >AM NIC > > I agree and would further suggest that this be handled in the G3 region as much as possible with the help of the "neighbor net" community for the .BG TLD. In a growing Internet, Jon Postel or a small IANA staff will not be able to sort out all of the local issues. People in the "region" can help with that. That is one of the merits of socializing these discussions. Does anyone have the current "neighbor net" for the .BG TLD which I assume is in G3 ? Jim Fleming Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.com -------- Logged at Fri Aug 28 17:22:45 MET DST 1998 ---------

1 0

.FR
by JimFleming＠unety.net 28 Aug '98

28 Aug '98

-----Original Message----- From: Annie Renard <Annie.Renard at nic.fr> To: Hank Nussbacher <hank at ibm.net.il> Cc: Jean-Christophe Praud <jc.praud at ludexpress.com>; Fay Howard <fay at ripe.net>; centr at ripe.net <centr at ripe.net>; centr-info at ripe.net <centr-info at ripe.net>; tld-wg at ripe.net <tld-wg at ripe.net>; 'Artur Grzymala' <artur at zoo.pl>; Veni Markovski <veni at isoc.bg>; Adam Todd <at at ah.net>; Jim Fleming <JimFleming at unety.net>; renard at gaillac.inria.fr <renard at gaillac.inria.fr> Date: Friday, August 28, 1998 3:42 AM Subject: Re: CENTR workshop for ccTLD Managers > > In your previous mail you wrote: > > On Fri, 28 Aug 1998, Jean-Christophe Praud wrote: > > If RIPE CENTR includes "alternate" cccTLDs in its charter, .il will have > to withdraw its support. > >idem for .fr > > Annie > Can you provide the contacts in the French government that endorse that position ? Jim Fleming Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.com -------- Logged at Fri Aug 28 17:22:00 MET DST 1998 ---------

1 0

CENTR workshop for ccTLD Managers
by fay＠ripe.net 28 Aug '98

28 Aug '98

Dear ccTLD Managers, As previously announced, a CENTR workshop is to be held for managers of TLD registries in Edinburgh 21 September 1998. The meeting is schedule between 10.00 and 17.00 and will take place at The University of Edinburgh, George Square Complex, William Robertson Building, Edinburgh, Scotland. As with the technical workshop, the aim of the managerial workshop will be to encourage discussion and exchange of experiences. Discussion leaders for each topic will give presentations and then open the debate to all participants. Four proposed topics are listed below. If you manage a ccTLD and wish to attend, please reply completing the template at the end of this email. Places are restricted to 26 and so initially we must limit participation to one person per TLD. Preference will be given to CENTR participants should applications exceed 26. Developing local TLD policy and naming rules: Many ccTLD are at some stage in the process of restructuring their registry and/or reviewing their current naming policy example being: - Creation of a new organization to replace work done on a voluntary basis by a university or academic network. - Introduction of charges for registering domain names or review of existing charging model. - Review of naming policy and naming restriction (liberal stance of first-come-first-served versus strict naming policy) - Government requirement Whatever changes are envisaged, it is often necessary to consult with the local networking community/service providers and even the general internet using public within the country. The participants will see examples of how this process has been handled in some countries followed by open discussion on how to manage consultation and to "sell" the changes to the public. Possible areas of harmonization for ccTLDs There are many organizations keen to document the practices of TLD registries around the world and the CENTR project has been collecting information on the participating ccTLDs. There is often talk of 'best practice' and even standardization of ccTLD rules and policies. With one of the key requirements of ccTLDs being autonomy and with the diversity of economies, legal systems and cultures, is there any room for harmonization? This session will examine information gathered in accordance with the CENTR template and also discuss areas where some level of harmonization may be achieved. Example might be who-is database policy, quality, pricing structure. Pooling Resources and Joint Funding One of the roles of the established CENTR should be to coordinate or commission projects on behalf of members. Pooling of resources or sharing the cost of software developments for example would be a significant benefit of CENTR membership. This item relates also to discussion at the technical workshop at which there was general agreement that the development of BIND Software is very important and should be supported by ccTLDs. A short presentation will be given by David Conrad of Internet Software Consortium on how CENTR members, as funders, could have input into the direction that new BIND developments take. Discussion will then be opened to identify other areas where CENTR can initiate work or coordinate the pooling of ideas/manpower on behalf of its members. Who-is Policy There has already been some debate on the issue of acceptable use of who-is database information. The session will begin with a presentation on the problems of confidentiality, misuse and possible solutions. There will also be a presentation on possible legitimate and acceptable use of who-is data before the debate is opened up to the participants. ************************** REGISTRATION FOR CENTR WORKSHOP I wish to attend the CENTR workshop for Managers of TLD Rgistries Name: Organization and country: Position held: Any other Comments: ************************* -------- Logged at Thu Aug 27 23:57:27 MET DST 1998 ---------

7 6