September 1999 - tld-wg - mailman.ripe.net

RIPE 34 TLD WG: Meeting Summary
by Niall.oReilly＠ucd.ie 24 Sep '99

24 Sep '99

RIPE 34: TLD-WG Summary Place: Grand Hotel Krasnapolsky, Amsterdam, The Netherlands Date: 22 September, 1999 Chair: Niall O'Reilly Scribe: Vesna Manojlovic Participants: 33 ccTLD Registries represented: 13 This short summary of the TLD-WG session was presented at the closing plenary session of RIPE 34. Please see the RIPE 34 TLD-WG Minutes (when available) for more detail. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Future of TLD WG The WG was closed. Now that CENTR is established, it appears to be the organisation which should best deal with most of the work areas belonging to the TLD WG. It is hoped that a CENTR working group will begin functioning soon and that it will meet at RIPE 35. Some work areas appear to fall more naturally to the continuing RIPE DNS WG. Work areas from the TLD-WG workplan were identified to be entrusted to DNS-WG and to CENTR, as shown below. DNS-WG: Stability of the DNS Root DNS Infrastructure Resources CENTR: IANA and ICANN Documentation and alignment of practices Emerging Registries Tools and Techniques ---------------------------------------------------------------- Input from other RIPE WG's DB-WG Input needed on specification of domain object for next revision of code. Operational difficulties around domain objects. Need decision on migration of domain objects -- CENTR to respond urgently. Specification input deferred until migration path decided. ---------------------------------------------------------------- CENTR Update Presentation by Fay Howard. CENTR has incorporated, is recruiting a Technical Project Officer, and is expected to have a technical programme, with its own working groups. CENTR is aware of problems wrt domain objects in RIPE DB and is in active dialogue with RIPE NCC. CENTR has had to concentrate on global ICANN and DNSO issues, and now expects to have a more "European" focus. Seven DNSO constituencies provisionally recognised, among which ccTLD constituency. ccTLD's have elected 3 NC members. Elections for ICANN Board follow in October. See http://www.centr.org. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Current Actions TLD-33.1 [Chair] Provide minutes for RIPE 32 TLD WG Draft ready; kept open; to be reviewed on list. TLD-33.2 [Chair] Initiate discussion of issues arising around domain objects in RIPE database. Some discussion has taken place between interested parties, especially RIPE-NCC, CENTR and certain registries. Transferred to CENTR, for decision during next week (beginning 27 September 1999). TLD-33.3 [Chair] Request information from registries on whether they are prepared to make their data available for pilot project using HARMONIC interface. NIC-FR is making contact directly. OBE; closed. TLD-33.4 [Chair] Place Future Direction of TLD-WG on Agenda for RIPE-34 and stimulate preparatory discussion on mailing list. Done; closed. TLD-33.5 [All] Contribute to workplan discussion on mailing list. OBE; closed. ---------------------------------------------------------------- New Actions TLD-34.1 [Chair] Ensure loose ends are tidied up, in particular by alerting inheritors of work areas and action items, and by taking care of minutes. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks I would like to thank everyone who has contributed to the TLD WG and who has made it an interesting experience for me as Chairman. I would particularly like to thank Vesna and also her predecessors at earlier meetings for taking the meeting notes. ---------------------------------------------------------------- -------- Logged at Tue Oct 5 00:00:53 CEST 1999 ---------

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DRAFT Minutes RIPE 32 TLD WG
by Niall.oReilly＠ucd.ie 23 Sep '99

23 Sep '99

I am now able to circulate draft minutes of the RIPE 32 TLD WG. This draft is for comment until 10 October 1999. In default of comment by then, this draft will become the official record of the meeting. Special thanks to Hans Niklasson, who took the notes. Niall O'Reilly DRAFT Minutes RIPE 32 TLD WG 1. Administrivia 1.1 Scribe: Hans Niklasson 1.2 Agenda: as drafted 2. Matters arising from RIPE 31 TLD-WG meeting 2.1 adoption of minutes RIPE 29 Only a summary was available. Wilfred Woeber proposed adoption of this as formal record; Mike Norris seconded. 2.2 adoption of minutes RIPE 30 Adoption of the minutes was proposed by Fay Howard 2.3 adoption of minutes RIPE 31 Adoption of the minutes was proposed by Daniel Karrenberg, seconded by Eva Froelich 2.3 review of action list TLD-31-1: Niall O'Reilly Finalise the minutes from the RIPE 29 meeting Completed (2.1 above) TLD-31-2: Niall O'Reilly Finalise the minutes from the RIPE 30 meeting Completed (2.2 above) TLD-31-3: Niall O'Reilly Obtain information on status of referral mechanism. Completed (4 below) 3. Review Workplan The group's workplan was found to need reorganisation, with merging if some sections. Chair agreed to prepare new draft for next meeting (Action: TLD-32.1). Activity relevant to the following particular work areas was noted. TLD Coordination Project Activity CENTR was expected to contines this as the successor to the RIPE CENTR project. Documentation and alignment of practices NIC-FR had developed a directory system. Philippe Renaud offered to demonstrate this at RIPE 33 (Action: TLD-32.4). DNS Infrastructure Resources DNS-WG was reported to be working on BCP document. Explicit reference to liaison with DNS-WG was needed in Workplan. DNSsec was expected in next version of BIND. Daniel Karrenberg offered to invite ISC presentation at next meeting if interest was sufficient. Chair undertook to make soundings on list (Action: TLD-32.2). 4. Whois referral feature Joao Luis Silva Damas gave a report on the database referral feature for domain names. Two ways to go, either leave it the way it is or another way to display. Four registries were believed to be using the RIPE whois and database code. Chair undertook to obtain firmer information (Action: TLD-32.3). It was agreed that the current implementation was just what was needed. 5. RIPE-CENTR Progress Fay Howard gave a report on current status of the RIPE CENTR Project. The creation of an independent CENTR organisation was under way, with an Executive Committee elected and incorporation expected shortly. This would allow the RIPE CENTR project to come to an end by 30 June 1999. 6. ICANN/DNSO Update Fay Howard reported developments to date in shaping of ICANN's Domain Names Supporting Organisation (DNSO), and described CENTR's position in this regard. CENTR was supporting ICANN, and was concerned to have continuity for ccTLD's and formalization of relationship between ccTLD's and ICANN. CENTR was participating in initative to form DNSO. A number of draft DNSO definitions had been proposed, including a draft from Ireland which had broad support from CENTR, but no consensus had yet emerged. Negotiations were continuing, most recently at and around a public meeting in Washington on 22 January and a closed meeting the day before. Negotiations were expected to continue in the near future, with ICANN pressing for conclusion by 5 February to allow a one-month notice period in advance of the Singapore ICANN meeting early in March. It was hoped to find ways for TLD-WG and CENTR to work together after resolution of the ICANN/DNSO issues and to maintain liason until then. 7. AOB Mike Norris suggested that it was timely to review the cocument RIPE-152, especially with regard to TLD registries, and agreed to co-ordinate this activity (Action: TLD-32.5). 8. Conclusions 8.1 revisit workplan priorities 8.2 summarize action list TLD-32.1 [Chair] Update Workplan TLD-32.2 [Chair] Determine DNS-SEC plans and need for support from DNS-WG TLD-32.3 [Chair] Advise DB-WG of number of registries planning to use RIPE whois code TLD-32.4 [Philippe Renaut] Present NIC-FR directory work at Vienna TLD-32.5 [Mike Norris] Co-ordinate review of RIPE-152 -- End -- -------- Logged at Fri Sep 24 12:11:36 CEST 1999 ---------

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Status of TLD WG Actions
by Niall.oReilly＠ucd.ie 15 Sep '99

15 Sep '99

TLD-33.1 [Chair] Provide minutes for RIPE-32 TLD-WG. -- Still open: closure expected soon -- TLD-33.2 [Chair] Initiate discussion of issues arising around domain objects in RIPE database, including: the large number of domain objects in the RIPE DB, authority for these objects, quality of data in these objects, possibility of distributing data among several databases, single point of initial reference, control of access to the data, data privacy, and possible differences in policy among registries. These issues need to be discussed, next requirements determined, and corresponding resources identified. -- Open: discussion in progress between CENTR and RIPE-NCC -- TLD-33.3 [Chair] Request information from registries on whether they are prepared to make their data available for pilot project using HARMONIC interface. -- Open: some registries are already working with NIC-FR -- TLD-33.4 [Chair] Place Future Direction of TLD-WG on Agenda for RIPE-34 and stimulate preparatory discussion on mailing list. -- Done -- TLD-33.5 [All] Contribute to workplan discussion on mailing list. -- Open: some discussion has taken place -- -------- Logged at Thu Sep 23 21:00:20 CEST 1999 ---------

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PROPOSED Agenda RIPE 34 TLD WG
by Niall.oReilly＠ucd.ie 15 Sep '99

15 Sep '99

TLD-WG session at RIPE 34: Proposed Agenda 1. Administrivia o recognition of Scribe (volunteer needed) o agreement of Agenda o minutes from RIPE 33 o review of action list 2. Input from other RIPE WG's, if any 3. CENTR Report (Fay Howard) 4. Future Direction of TLD WG 5. Review Workplan Workplan is due for formal review at each WG meeting. This review must take account of the conclusions reached under item 4, above. 6. AOB 7. Conclusions -------- Logged at Wed Sep 15 22:36:46 CEST 1999 ---------

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DRAFT Minutes RIPE 33 TLD WG
by Niall.oReilly＠ucd.ie 15 Sep '99

15 Sep '99

RIPE 33: DRAFT TLD-WG Minutes Place: Palais Auersperg, Vienna, Austria Date: 5 May 1999 Chair: Niall O'Reilly Scribe: Maldwyn Morris Participants: 33 ccTLD Registries represented: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------------- Proposed Agenda 1. Administrivia 2. Review Work plan 3. HarmoNIC Presentation by Philippe Renaut 4. CENTR Presentation by Fay Howard 5. ICANN/DNSO Presentation by Fay Howard 6. AOB 7. Conclusions 1. Administrivia 1.1 Recognition of Scribe Maldwyn Morris kindly volunteered to take notes of the meeting. 1.2 Approval of minutes from RIPE 32 No minutes from RIPE 32 ACTION 33.1 on Chair to ensure they are produced. 1.3 Agreement of Agenda The proposed agenda was agreed. 1.4 Review of Current Actions TLD-32.1 [Chair] Update Workplan Chair had recently posted workplan discussion document (http://www.ripe.net/???) to TLD-WG list. Most of those present had not yet seen this. Kept open. TLD-32.2 [Chair] Determine DNS-SEC plans and need for support from DNS-WG No registries have advised Chair of plans to implement DNS-SEC. A couple have indicated that guidance from DNS-WG would be welcome. One has indicated that preparatory study is in progress. Done TLD-32.3 [Chair] Advise DB-WG of number of registries planning to use RIPE whois code Nine registries are either using or considering using the code. Chair proposed new ACTION 33.2 on Chair to find out more about who is using RIPE database at RIPE NCC for domain objects. Done TLD-32.4 [Philippe Renaut] Present NIC-FR directory work at Vienna (Agenda item 3) Done TLD-32.5 [Mike Norris] Co-ordinate review of RIPE-152 Chair proposed to close as OBE. No disagreement from floor. Closed as OBE 2. Review Workplan Chair proposed to drop many sections and re-align others, as suggested in the discussion document, which he presented, as most present had not seen it. The following additional suggestions were made. o Split IANA and Stability of Root into two sections: IANA/ICANN and Root Stability. ICANN is now defined and supporting organizations are emerging. The inaugural meeting in Berlin will define them further. CENTR has helped define both the DNSO and the ccTLD area within DNSO. Fay said that Marcel Schneider had initiated an ICANN/TLD relations activity but this could be done by CENTR, not just Marcel. Root stability needs firmer plans. There should be no changes in Delegation without due process, and the DNSO was the forum for discussing this. o TLD coordination Project Activity. CENTR doesn't cover all TLD activities. Need task force to do TLD activities. The Chair proposed that task forces should be set up for specific TLD activities. Discussion on next steps was to be dealt with in Section 7 of this meeting. 3. HARMONIC: Directory Service of NIC.FR Presentation by Philippe Renaut Domain directory tool for all ccTLDs, initially working for .fr Enables users to find extra non-technical information not stored in the RIPE DB, such as Activities. Can search for Organizations by Postal Address, Activity, Sector. Can search for Domains by parts of name. Can search for web sites in .fr domain. It means users can search the net not by domain name, so this takes the pressure off domain names. Uses standardized address in address part of RIPE DB. Those interested are welcome to look: http://harmonic.nic.fr An no-image version will be developed. Other NICs are interested and it could become a global tool. An LDAP upper layer will be developed to standradise the information Philippe asked the permission of other ccTLDs to use their information in the system and suggested that they discuss it with him after the meeting. Philippe answered a number of questions from those present. Q: How is the information collected Philippe: Differs per country, but France's NIC collects the info for .fr Q: Who supplies the information ? Is it Official ? Philippe: Yes it is official. Some is from the RIPE Database, some is requested by the NIC when the domain is registered. Q: Who updates the info - Nic or the client ? Philippe: The client, but ISPs say they don't necessarily want to do it, so will allow both to do it. If clients don't want to appear, they don't have to. Q: Are updates handled automatically. Are they authenticated ? Philippe: Yes, Yes - with a password. Q: When is the Launch date ? Philippe: Already launched for .fr Q: What are the hit rates ? Philippe: 150 connections per day. 4. CENTR Update Presentation by Fay Howard. See http://www.centr.org. RIPE-CENTR Project is winding down. CENTR has elected a committee, has 23 intended member registries, is incorporated in UK following poll, locating in Oxford 7/6/99, looking for technical and admin officers. Fay Howard has been appointed General Manager. A technical workshop is planned in conjunction with RIPE-34. Gerhard Winkler mentioned possible technical work items for CENTR: o DNS secondary, structure, QOS, requirements o Whois DB - need or split from RIPE DB for domains ? o DNS SEC - need ?, how ? o Shared Registry system- how ?, need ? o How to run registry ? o Liaisons - ask other WGs o Share resources o Common Database structures Fay suggested that maybe RIPE NCC does not want to store domain names after CENTR is set up in Oxford. Rob Blokzijl, RIPE Chairman, said that he had indicated that we need to think about this, but that that didn't mean that RIPE is unwilling to continue to support it. [ Coffee Break ] 5. ICANN/DNSO Update Presentation by Fay Howard. See http://www.icann.org. Fay mentioned CENTR participation in consensus-building, and the different DNSO-definition proposals known as the Paris, BMW, Singapore documents. She described the current DNSO Formation ideas, with Constituencies and General Assembly. and that Inaugural Meetings had been scheduled in Berlin later this month. Fay asked who was planning to go to Berlin and three people indicated that they were intending to go. 6. AOB o Relations with other WGs DB-WG had raised concern over domain objects in RIPE database. This was discussed earlier in the meeting when reviewing the action items. It was reported that at the moment only Switzerland and Liechtenstein were known to use to use Referral. o Status of this WG Rob Blokzijl said that the meeting should consider putting in the agenda for this WG at RIPE 34, when CENTR is settled, the question of how to proceed with this WG. Chair said this largely overlaps with Section 7 of this meeting's agenda, but that the WG should discuss this on the tld-wg at ripe.net mailing list. 7. Conclusions o Directions for the group Chair proposed ACTION on chair to seek discussion of the directions for the group on the lir/wg mailing list. Floor concurred. o Revisiting the Work plan Chair proposed ACTION on ALL to discuss this on the tld-wg at ripe.net mailing list. Floor concurred. The chair thanked all the participants, and meeting was closed. The following actions were outstanding for the working group at the end of the meeting. TLD-33.1 [Chair] Provide minutes for RIPE-32 TLD-WG. TLD-33.2 [Chair] Initiate discussion of issues arising around domain objects in RIPE database, including: the large number of domain objects in the RIPE DB, authority for these objects, quality of data in these objects, possibility of distributing data among several databases, single point of initial reference, control of access to the data, data privacy, and possible differences in policy among registries. These issues need to be discussed, next requirements determined, and corresponding resources identified. TLD-33.3 [Chair] Request information from registries on whether they are prepared to make their data available for pilot project using HARMONIC interface. TLD-33.4 [Chair] Place Future Direction of TLD-WG on Agenda for RIPE-34 and stimulate preparatory discussion on mailing list. TLD-33.5 [All] Contribute to workplan discussion on mailing list. ---------------------------------------------------------------- -------- Logged at Wed Sep 15 22:36:08 CEST 1999 ---------

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RIPE handles delay
by woeber＠cc.univie.ac.at 15 Sep '99

15 Sep '99

Dear Vesa! => response to updates more directly related to the RIPE DB intended purpose => while still ensuring that others not so directly related will get => processed. = =This tactful comment probably means a turn to the right direction. =But I wish it was said loudly and clearly, maybe even as a complete =change in DB usage policy. We pay for address registration services, =please take the domain (non-rev-dns-related) objects elsewhere. To statr with I'd like to assure you that we are (sometimes painfully) aware of the issue(s) you'r point fingers at. Quite a bit of things have been achived already to allow us to move in the right direction in due time: Technically: the NCC already has implemented the WG-approved refer: attribute to allow referrals to "remote" autoritative servers for domain: objects. This is already being use by (a few) TLD registries, others are working towards that end. Logistics: CENTR was formed within the framework of the RIPE NCC quite a while ago to deal with TLD activites (or DNS issues in general). CENTR has meanwhile been incoprorated as a legal entity of it's own, and moved office to the UK. RIPE discussions: we have already (recently) started to discuss (both informally amongst the WG chairs, as well as within the various WG meetings) the issues with co-locating different registries within a single database environment (i.e. the IP-Registry, Routing-Registry, DNS-Registry). These issues are (amongst others) . authority for data and responsibility for data quality . access patterns ie.e. (updates vs. consumers, privacy, copyright) . providing operational resources As an aside, you are correct in stating that the NCC's main objective rests with the IP-Address, including reverseDNS and Routing Registry activites. But, at the same time, the creation of and support for CENTR and the DNS-related activites was agreed by the RIPE community and there was (still is?) a contract in place between the NCC and CENTR to have CENTR contribute equitably to the NCC's operational costs. I'm looking forward to continue this thread of discussion (within the DB-WG framework or somewhere else) as well as to corrections and amendments by the RIPE community and WG chairs, and/or from NCC staff. Best regards, and thanks for bringing this up (again) for consideration! Wilfried Woeber DataBase WG chair. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wilfried Woeber : e-mail: Woeber at CC.UniVie.ac.at Computer Center - ACOnet : Tel: +43 1 4277 - 140 33 Vienna University : Fax: +43 1 4277 - 9 140 Universitaetsstrasse 7 : RIPE-DB (&NIC) Handle: WW144 A-1010 Vienna, Austria, Europe : PGP public key ID 0xF0ACB369 __________________________________________________________________________ -------- Logged at Wed Sep 15 22:34:54 CEST 1999 ---------

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RIPE handles delay
by joao＠ripe.net 14 Sep '99

14 Sep '99

Hi, we have been having a lot of trouble lately here at the NCC. Apart from some HW problems, that are now fixed, we are still receiving updates at a rate and in a combination that the DB can't presently handle in a fast way. All messages sent are queued and processed in turn. We are working on optimizing the software to handle these updates faster. Also we are going to deploy a queue control system to ensure a prompt response to updates more directly related to the RIPE DB intended purpose while still ensuring that others not so directly related will get processed. Currently we are processing the mails that were causing the problems with a lower priority to ensure an adequate service to the community. I will be presenting an in depth report on the situation next week at the RIPE meeting (DB wg). Shall the TLD wg also be interested in the some sort of presentation or overview I will be glad to present it. We have been reporting on the situation to this and other RIPE wgs and shall continue to do so. At this moment the situation is such that messages are being processed as in the good old days :-) Best regards, Joao Damas RIPE DB Group Manager RIPE NCC On Tue, 14 Sep 1999, Alfredo E. Cotroneo wrote: > Hi, > > For the last ten days or so we have noticed that replies for a new contact > handle to auto-dbm at ripe.net is taking much more than the usual 2-5 minutes > as it used to be in the good old times ;-) Although we request only a few > handles per month, a relly from RIPE takes now 10-20 hrs or more in some > cases, regardless of the time (day or night, week or week-end) when the > request is sent out. > > I have heard of some kind of explanation related to SW/HW upgrades at RIPE > and huge requests of handles being queued by some provider a few days ago, > however, can someone at RIPE tell if the situation is going to be solved > soon and when ? > > Unfortunately this is causing at least an additional 1+ day delay in the > registration of new domains at the Italian NIC, as IT-NIC requests that a > handle exists for each contact before the domain registration form is > submitted. Of course any comment from IT-NIC on how they can modify their > internal procedures to minimize such delays (i.e. by IT-NIC requesting a > new handle to RIPE directly) is also welcome. > > Thanks. > > > -- > Alfredo E. Cotroneo PO Box 11028, 20110, Milano, Italy > Phone: +39-335-214-614 (try first) / +39-02-266-6971 > email: alfredo at nexus.org fax: +39-02-706-38151 > > -------- Logged at Tue Sep 14 17:22:17 CEST 1999 ---------

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Some ideas on the future direction of the RIPE TLD-WG
by schneider＠switch.ch 13 Sep '99

13 Sep '99

On Monday, 13 Sep 1999, "Kurt Jaeger" writes: ... > Currently, each registry has its own "domain registration/modify" > interface (some web-based, some mail based, maybe some are already > database based). > Soon, PGP or GNU-PG as means for authentication will come into > play. So, it's some to standardize, otherwise the RIPE members will > have to "write code back and forth". I start to understand that you are not talking about WHOIS but about some sort of registry-registrar protocol or maybe software. Is that correct ? If you're a CORE member you may present at RIPE-34 what you are doing. Or do you want RIPE members top develop a new one ? There ist the Registry- Registrar protocol currently developed by NSI with its testbed registrars and there is the SRS (Shared Registry System) proposed a while ago by CORE, but probably discontinued now. Hopefully we'll have Siegfried Langenbach at the RIPE meeting to learn more of the current status. Marcel -------- Logged at Tue Sep 14 15:04:36 CEST 1999 ---------

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Some ideas on the future direction of the RIPE TLD-WG
by schneider＠switch.ch 13 Sep '99

13 Sep '99

On Monday, 13 Sep 1999, "Kurt Jaeger" writes: Hello Kurt > The RIPE TLD-WG might try to get a standards discussion started for > all technical interfaces into DNS registration: > - whois query interface > - template syntax > - syntax checks on fields > - Validity checks > - Change/Modify interface > in short, for every aspect required to automate as many tasks as possible > for domain delegation. Since IMO all TLD's in the RIPE area use RIPE WHOIS your proposal makes sense. I do not fully understand these issues: > - syntax checks on fields > - Validity checks Do you mean checks implemented in WHOIS or checks implemented by the interface offered by the registry to you to enter WHOIS information ? > - Change/Modify interface What interface ? WHOIS uses an ASCII text based simple query mechanism to communicate with. See RFC-954. Where ist the interface here ? Are you suggesting one ? Marcel -------- Logged at Mon Sep 13 16:26:08 CEST 1999 ---------

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New TLD mailing list created
by BERI＠etf.bg.ac.yu 13 Sep '99

13 Sep '99

Hello, Apologies for possible mutual copies of this message. Please, feel free to distribute this message worldwide, to other ccTLD representatives, not being subscribed to wwtld or tld-wg mailing lists. Following the iniative on the <wwtld at ripe.net> mailing list, backed by several people, a new mailing list, dedicated to TECHNICAL issues of ccTLD operation, has been created on the DNSO mailing list server. The idea is to separate technical details from general issues. The mailing list address is: <wwtld-tech at dnso.org>. The mailing list is closed to the technical staff working with various ccTLD registries around the world (of course, admins are also welcome). If I receive no objections until this Friday, 17 Sep 1999, I'll add all current technical contacts from the NSI (InterNIC) Whois database automatically to the list. I would also suggest that someone from IANA (Bill Manning or Josh Elliott) be subscribed to this list. Should we also invite ISC (Paul Vixie) - his inputs might be extremely useful to all of us? For additions/removals to the list, contact <owner-wwtld-tech at dnso.org>. The scope of the list are discussions about various DNS software and their bugs (included crossposts from bugtraq related to the DNS), DNSSEC, whois implementations, tracking and ticketing systems, reports from root server administrators interesting for wide tech public etc. The list is NOT intended for non-technical issues (geographical diversity of Domain Council members, elections to SOs, government-TLD relationships etc.). Regards, Beri .-------. | --+-- | Berislav Todorovic, B.Sc.E.E. | E-mail: BERI at etf.bg.ac.yu | /|\ Hostmaster of the YU TLD | |-(-+-)-| School of Electrical Engineering | Phone: (+381-11) 3221-419 | \|/ Bulevar Revolucije 73 | 3218-350 | --+-- | 11000 Belgrade SERBIA, YUGOSLAVIA | Fax: (+381-11) 3248-681 `-------' -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- Logged at Mon Sep 13 14:47:26 CEST 1999 ---------

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