February 1998 - tld-wg - mailman.ripe.net

Meeting RIPE nTLD registries
by guntis＠latnet.lv 12 Feb '98

12 Feb '98

At 22:40 11/02/98 +0100, Boudewijn Nederkoorn wrote: >I understand fully your problems to go to Amsterdam, just for one meeting. >Let me explain what the objectives are. >First: we want to generate support for the RIPE-CENTR project in order to >carry out the wg-TLD workprogramme. It would be nice if you would send a >mail to the wg-TLD list with your support for the RIPE-CENTR project. In the name of LV-NIC (nTLD of Latvia, .lv) I would like to express our support for RIPE-CENTR project and we are looking forward to participate in RIPE-CENTR activities. Best regards, -- Guntis Barzdins, LV-NIC -------- Logged at Thu Feb 12 12:27:22 MET 1998 ---------

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CORE == Big Brother ??
by Roberto.Gaetano＠etsi.fr 12 Feb '98

12 Feb '98

Hi, Jim. You wrote: > On Friday, February 06, 1998 7:27 PM, Roberto > Gaetano[SMTP:Roberto.Gaetano at etsi.fr] wrote: > @Jay, > @ > @May I start by making one thing clear: I am a member of CORE, > <snip> > @My point is that these rules have to be enforced by ourselves, and > those > @decisions have to be made by ourselves, the cybernauts. > @We have to grow up to the point in which we decide for ourselves, and > @resist the temptation to have "big brother" decide for all of us. > @ > > Roberto, > > Your "big brothers" are CORE and the POC/PAB as well > as the ITU/ISOC/IANA/IAHC, etc. They are making the > decisions for you. > Let me disagree. I've participated in all decisions CORE has made, since its foundation. This doesn't mean that I have agreed on everything, but I have always had the possibility of knowing the different positions, made up my mind, and participate. I also had the possibility to make my voice heard, and to try to get other people on my side. Whether I was succesful or not, I can't tell, and it doesn't matter. The process has been always open and democratic. This is not the case with the Green Paper. The decision was forced upon the Internet community, and all we can do is agree or comment in the hope that the comment will be taken into account. There has been no open discussion, no consultation of the other Governments of the world, no vote, no nothing. > The heart and soul of the Registry Industry are the people > and companies that are strong enough to stand on their > own without paying a "big brother" $10,000 and $2,000/month > to lobby for them. > The amount of the payments the Registrars make to CORE, and the use of the money by CORE, are discussed and decided by the Registrars. CORE Members like Deutsche Telekom or Telia, just to make an example, are strong and big enough not to need a "big brother". They are actually stronger and bigger than CORE itself. Nevertheless, companies of any size happen to coordinate in order to achieve their goals. It's the purpose of all associations of any sort. We ourselves (ETSI) are a not-for-profit association of some 450 members in the Telecom business worldwide, most of which far bigger than the association itself. They decide the fees, pay them, and decide what ETSI has to do with the money. Nobody in those companies (IBM, Nokia, Ericsson, France Telecom, NEC, ....) thinks at ETSI as a Big Brother. I agree that, on the long term, the $10,000 "entry fee" has to be removed. But in the short term, how do you think we could have raised the money for setting up the system, considering that we strongly believe in a Shared Registry System as the only reasonable answer to the needs for the management of the Domain Names? We could have asked to Ira Magaziner or other people. Maybe we would have had the money from a Big Brother or a Big Sister, so no need for $10K, but would you think Big Brother would have left ourselves arbiter of the choices? No, Big Brother would have decided himself. The only answer was to give ourselves financial independence to be free to decide. Which we did. Of course, once the system will be up and running (and paid for), the "bareers" will be gradually removed, because they will be no longer needed (even counterproductive, because they will limit participation). > One of the interesting aspects of the Internet is that it allows > many, many people to sit at the round tables where decisions > are made. Those tables are as close as your keyboard and > mouse. You can communicate with the other participants in > real-time. People at those round tables have already grown > up to the point where they decide for themselves. They do not > have much trouble resisting the temptation of having others > making decisions for them. They speak for themselves and > their voices are heard. > > Those round tables are always open to you...and everyone... > Thank you. I appreciate this. I have no doubts of the power of the open round tables, and the common effort of the Netizens. My point was only that the Green Paper, and the process that originated it, is what you can think the farthest away from this open round table. And I am astonished about why some people can accept it. Best regards Roberto -------- Logged at Thu Feb 12 15:27:46 MET 1998 ---------

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CORE == Big Brother ??
by JimFleming＠doorstep.unety.net 12 Feb '98

12 Feb '98

On Friday, February 06, 1998 7:27 PM, Roberto Gaetano[SMTP:Roberto.Gaetano at etsi.fr] wrote: @Jay, @ @May I start by making one thing clear: I am a member of CORE, <snip> @My point is that these rules have to be enforced by ourselves, and those @decisions have to be made by ourselves, the cybernauts. @We have to grow up to the point in which we decide for ourselves, and @resist the temptation to have "big brother" decide for all of us. @ Roberto, Your "big brothers" are CORE and the POC/PAB as well as the ITU/ISOC/IANA/IAHC, etc. They are making the decisions for you. The heart and soul of the Registry Industry are the people and companies that are strong enough to stand on their own without paying a "big brother" $10,000 and $2,000/month to lobby for them. One of the interesting aspects of the Internet is that it allows many, many people to sit at the round tables where decisions are made. Those tables are as close as your keyboard and mouse. You can communicate with the other participants in real-time. People at those round tables have already grown up to the point where they decide for themselves. They do not have much trouble resisting the temptation of having others making decisions for them. They speak for themselves and their voices are heard. Those round tables are always open to you...and everyone... Jim Fleming Unir Corporation IBC, Tortola, BVI -------- Logged at Thu Feb 12 11:38:02 MET 1998 ---------

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Meeting RIPE nTLD registries
by Boudewijn.Nederkoorn＠surfnet.nl 11 Feb '98

11 Feb '98

As a result of the wg-TLD meeting in Amsterdam, I have asked Paul Ridley tot prepare a meeting of nTLD registries in the RIPE area on short notice. The meeting is now scheduled for Monday, 2 March 1998 from 10.30 until 17.00. Venue; Schiphol Airport Amsterdam, Hilton Hotel. This mail goes only to the TLD-wg list. The formal invitation with the proposed agenda and further information will be sent to all registries as mentioned in Paul's mail, forwarded below. In the same mail Paul told me that he will resign from RIPE/NCC in the second half of March. I will contact Daniel Karrenberg to discuss other ways of getting support from RIPE/NCC. Boudewijn Nederkoorn -------- Logged at Tue Feb 10 15:26:36 MET 1998 ---------

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RIPE CENTR Project
by sabine＠denic.de 11 Feb '98

11 Feb '98

Hello, just to keep you informed an to start things moving. Yesterday we had a internal meeting and we decided that we will strongly support the efforts to organize the nTLDs on a more formal base. The DENIC will therefore partizipate and support the startup of the project. I look forward to see you in Amsterdam. Regards Sabine ----------------------------------+------------------------------------------- Sabine Dolderer | eMail : Sabine.Dolderer at denic.de DENIC eG | Fon : +49 69 27235 0 Wiesenhuettenplatz 26 | Fax : +49 69 27235 235 D-60329 Frankfurt | ----------------------------------+-------------------------------------------- -------- Logged at Fri Feb 6 22:38:15 MET 1998 ---------

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RIPE CENTR Project
by V.Casarosa＠cnuce.cnr.it 11 Feb '98

11 Feb '98

Italy also strongly supports the ideas contained in the RIPE CENTR proposal. Looking forward to meet you soon. Vittore Casarosa ----------------------------------------------------------- >Return-path: <owner-tld-wg at ripe.net> >Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:44:34 +0100 >From: Marcel Schneider <schneider at switch.ch> >Subject: Re: RIPE CENTR Project >Sender: owner-tld-wg at ripe.net >To: tld-wg at ripe.net >Content-id: <757.887111074.1 at limmat.switch.ch> >Delivered-to: lists-tld-wg-out at lists.ripe.net > >On Friday, 6 Feb 1998, Sabine Dolderer writes: >> Hello, > >> just to keep you informed an to start things moving. > >> Yesterday we had a internal meeting and we decided that we will >> strongly support the efforts to organize the nTLDs on a more formal base. >> The DENIC will therefore partizipate and support the startup of the >> project. > >> I look forward to see you in Amsterdam. > >Me too. Boudewijn Nederkoorn has promised to organize that meeting >and we are all looking forward to do it :). > > >> Regards Sabine > >> ----------------------------------+------------------------------------------- >> Sabine Dolderer | eMail : Sabine.Dolderer at denic.de >> DENIC eG | Fon : +49 69 27235 0 >> Wiesenhuettenplatz 26 | Fax : +49 69 27235 235 >> D-60329 Frankfurt | >> ----------------------------------+----------------------------------------- --- > > >Marcel > -------------------------------------------------------------- From: Vittore Casarosa E-mail: V.Casarosa at cnuce.cnr.it CNR - IAT Phone : +39-50-593 325 36 Via Santa Maria Fax : +39-50-904 052 56126 PISA - ITALY Home : +39-50-554 928 -------- Logged at Wed Feb 11 09:55:05 MET 1998 ---------

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List of nTLD registries in the RIPE area
by Boudewijn.Nederkoorn＠surfnet.nl 10 Feb '98

10 Feb '98

------- Forwarded Message Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 23:09:53 +0100 From: Paul Ridley <paul at ripe.net> To: Boudewijn.Nederkoorn at surfnet.nl Subject: nTLD meeting at Schiphol Hello Boudewijn, Underneath you can find the list of RIPE area nTLDs and the e-mail addresses of their contact persons. I have tried to find out who the 'decision making' person is and put thm as the contact person, but for the majority it is never 100% certain. However as long as you make it clear that it should be passed on to the appropriate person this will not matter so much. Before I go into the rest of the meeting details I want to bring you up to date with my own situation, as this may have some bearing on a few practical aspects of RIPE CENTR. As you may have already heard from Kees, I resigned from my job at RIPE NCC last Friday. Taking into account holidays etc this means that my last working day at RIPE NCC will be 17 March 1998, less than 6 weeks away. I find it very difficult to now draft an agenda for the ntld meeting since this was going to be based on the 4 goals/activities of RIPE CENTR that were in my proposal. However I will send you in a seperate mail a draft agenda assuming that thesame points need to be discussed although the who does what and when may now be changed. I have had requests from 2 parties as to when the meeting should be scheduled. .se and .no asked that the meeting not be held on Tuesday 24 FEB since there is a Scandinavian backbone meeting (or something like that) on that day. The second comment is from RIPE NCC. If you require admin support from us then this cannot be provided on Thursday 26 or Friday 27 FEB since we have internal management meetings for 2 whole days. Please let me know what admin support if any you will need for this meeting. Regards Paul Here is a list of contacts e-mail addresses for the RIPE area nTLDs. Where possible the contact is a 'decision making' person of that organisation. If this person was not known the admin contact as stated in the Internic Domain object is quoted. 1.ALBANIA .al Serzh, Qesteri QS15 inima at INIMA.AL 2.ALGERIA .dz Tafat, Mohand MT35 Mohand at ALGERIA.EU.NET 3.ANDORRA .ad Salvat, Jaume JS2216 Postmaster at DINIS.AD 4.ARMENIA .am Danielyan, Edgar ET22 edd at ACM.ORG 5.AUSTRIA .at Rastl, Peter PR67 Peter.Rastl at cc.univie.ac.at 6.AZERBAIJAN .az Degtyarev, Eugene ED678 root at DEM.BAKU.AZ 7.BAHRAIN .bh Araj, Ali AA288 ali at BATELCO.COM 8.BELARUS .by Andrey, Ivanov IA12 ivanov at OK.MINSK.BY 9.BELGIUM .be Verbaeten, Pierre PV19 admin at DNS.BE 10.BENIN .bj Agbaholou, Louis LA214 agbaholou at INTNET.BJ 11.BOSNIA AND HERZEGOWIN .ba Haris, Hadzialic HH475 haris at UTIC.NET.BA 12.BULGARIA .bg Slavov, Dragomir DS642 dhs at digsys.bg 13.BURKINA FASO .bf Tankoano, Joachim JT5 tankoano at DELGI.BF 14.CAMEROON .cm NTOKO, Alexander AN591 ntoko at ITU.INT 15.CAPE VERDE .cv Varela, Antonio AV358 varela at ISECMAR.CV 16.CHAD .td NDOUMANBE, TAROUSS TN1206 tit at FCR.FRANCE-TELEC OM.FR 17.COTE D'IVOIRE .ci Nakounou, Bobouo BN48 bobouo at INSET.CI 18.CROATIA .hr Pale, Predrag PP48 ppale at ETF.HR 19.CYPRUS .cy Stylianou, Agathoclis AS183 agatho at CYEARN.BIT NET 20.CZECH REPUBLIC .cz Rosendorf, Pavel PR131 prf at CZ.NET 21.DENMARK .dk No name DH188-ORG dk-tld-admin at DK-HOSTMASTER.DK 22.DJIBOUTI .dj Ramirez, Henri HR247 ramirez at RVA.FCR.FRANCE-T ELECOM.FR 23.EGYPT .eg Ghonaimy, Adeeb [EUN Director] AG233 adeeb at FR CU.EUN.EG 24.ERITREA .er Abraham, Zerai ZA41 sysop at EISA.GN.APC.ORG 25.ESTONIA .ee Lippmaa, Endel EL34 elippmaa at KBFI.EE 26.ETHIOPIA .et Gashaw, Abebe AG961 agashaw at TELECOM.NET.ET 27.FAROE ISLANDS .fo Hansen, Lis LH7 Lis.Hansen at NSAVN.FO 28.FINLAND .fi Helsingius, Johan JH188 fi-domain-admin at EUNET .FI 29.FRANCE .fr Renard, Annie AR41 Annie.Renard at INRIA.FR 30.GAMBIA .gm Grotnes, Jorn JG4240 jgr at COMMIT.GM 31.GEORGIA .ge Kashia, George GK52 kisho at SANET.GE 32.GERMANY .de Dolderer, Sabine SD24 dolderer at NIC.DE 33.GHANA .gh Quaynor, Nii Narku [Dr.] NNQ quaynor at NCS.COM. GH 34.GIBRALTAR .gi Linares, Gustave Anthony GAL6 nic at GIBNET.GI 35.GREECE .gr Vassilis, Spitadakis SV1033 spitad at ICS.FORTH. GR 36.GREENLAND .gl Greenland Administrative Contact GAC2-ORG nic @GH.GL 37.GUINEA .gn Kourouma, Moussa MK119 moussa at PADES.AC.GN 38.GUINEA-BISSAU .gw Embalo, Mario ME1004 cherno at SOL.UNDPBI.TELEPA C.NET 39.HOLY SEE (VATICAN) .va Zoebelein, Judith [Sister] JZ146 sjz at VATICAN. VA 40.HUNGARY .hu Martos, Balazs BM238 martos at SZTAKI.HU 41.ICELAND .is Jonsson, Helgi HJ18 hjons at ISGATE.IS 42.IRAN(ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF).ir Fazlollahi, Farshad FF179 fazl at ARCHWAY.NET 43.IRAQ .iq Alani, Saud SA1955 alani at MYNET.NET 44.IRELAND .ie Niall O'Reilly NO8 noreilly at ucd.ie 45.ISRAEL .il Nussbacher, Hank HN7 hank at ISOC.ORG.IL 46.ITALY .it Trumpy, Stefano ST43-RIPE S.Trumpy at CNUCE.CNR. IT 47.JORDAN .jo Nusseir, Yousef [Dr.] YN14 ynusseir at NIC.GOV.JO 48.KAZAKHSTAN .kz Gusev, Pavel PG134 pasha at RELCOM.KZ 49.KENYA .ke Ochuodho, Shem J. SJO2 shem at ARCC.OR.KE 50.KUWAIT .kw Al-Roumi, Salman [Undersecretary] SA81 sroumi @NCCDNS.MOC.KW 51.KYRGYZSTAN .kg Piryazev, Sergey SP312 adm at INFOTEL.BISHKEK.SU 52.LATVIA .lv Barzdins, Guntis GB2 guntis at LATNET.LV 53.LEBANON .lb Bukhalid, Nabil NB9 nabil at AUB.EDU.LB 00043289 20 at MCIMAIL.COM 54.LIBERIA .lr Urey, Mai Bright MU120 murey at LIBERIA.NET 55.LIBYAN ARAB JAMAHIRIYA .ly Registrar REG20-ORG fastnet at SAQNET.CO.UK 56.LIECHTENSTEIN .li Schneider, Marcel MS2220 schneider at SWITCH.CH 57.LITHUANIA .lt Tamulioniene, Daiva DT78 daiva at SC-UNI.KTU.LT 58.LUXEMBOURG .lu Duhautpas, Theo TD187 duhautpas at RESTENA.LU 59.MACEDONIA .mk Belcev, Dimitar DB53 Dimitar at E5.IJS.SI 60.MALI .ml Maiga, Tiemoko Mahamane TMM24 hostmaster at SOTE LMA.ML 61.MALTA .mt Nezval, Victor VN6 vnez at CIS.UM.EDU.MT 62.MAURITANIA .mr Haouba, Ahmedou Ould AOH2 haouba at UNIV-NKC.MR 63.MOLDOVA .md Chirev, Pavel PC63 CRI at ROEARN.ICI.RO 64.MONACO .mc Gall, Thierry TG1787 tgall at RAIN.FR 65.MOROCCO .ma unknown 66.NETHERLANDS .nl Boudewijn Nederkoorn nederkoorn at surfnet.nl 67.NIGER .ne Hennessee, Sean SH4919 sxh at NE800.COM 68.NIGERIA .ng Odusote, Iyabo [Mrs.] IO12 iyabo at YABA.CNUCE.C NR.IT 69.NORWAY .no Eidnes, Havard HE15 Havard.Eidnes at RUNIT.SINTE F.NO 70.OMAN .om Abduwani, Ali AA1036 abduwani at GTO.NET 71.POLAND .pl Krzanowski, Wiktor WK856 wiktor at NASK.PL 72.PORTUGAL .pt Veiga, Pedro PV542 Pedro.Veiga at FCCN.PT 73.QATAR .qa Marafih, Nasser NM379 nasser at DOHA.NET 74.ROMANIA .ro Tanase, Iustin IT190 ita at INFO.CNI.RO 75.RUSSIAN FEDERATION .ru Platonov, Alexey P. AP22 plat at KIAE.SU 76. old .su domain. Existing sub-domains managed by .ru 77.SAN MARINO .sm Gabellini, Andrea AG89-RIPE staff at OMNIWAY.SM 78.SAO TOME AND PRINCIPE .st Da Cruz Lima, Manuel Quaresma MQD2 lima at NAC.N ET 79.SAUDI ARABIA .sa Al-Musa, Abdullah Othman AOA2 aaic20 at KACST.ED U.SA 80.SENEGAL .sn Corenthin, Alex AC4 corenthin at UCAD.SN 81.SIERRA LEONE .sl Pratt, Reginald RP2972 pratt at SIERRATEL.SL 82.SLOVAKIA .sk Buechler, Gejza GB224 gejza at UNIBA.CS gejza at UN IBA.CS 84.SPAIN .es Sanz, Miguel A. MAS122 miguel.sanz at REDIRIS.ES 85.SUDAN .sd Osman, Ihab I IIO3 iiosman at AOL.COM 86.SVALBARD AND JAN MAYEN ISLANDS .sj Eidnes, Havard HE15 Havard.Eidnes at RUNIT .SINTEF.NO 87.SWEDEN .se administrator info at nic-se.se 88.SWITZERLAND .ch Schneider, Marcel MS2220 schneider at SWITCH.CH 89.SYRIAN ARAB REPUBLIC .sy Obied, Makram MO1837 STE-GM at SYRIATEL.NET 90.TAJIKISTAN .tj Tursoon-Zadeh, Irage M IMT13 irage at NIC.TJ 91.TOGO .tg YAWO, NAOGBODJI NY61 togo at NCS.COM.GH 92.TUNISIA .tn Mhiri, Dhafrallah DM2530 mhiri at TOUNES.ATI.TN 93.TURKEY .tr Ozgit, Attila AO14 ozgit at KNIDOS.CC.METU.EDU.T R 94.TURKMENISTAN .tm Karryev, Batyr BK3264 batyr at TM.SYNAPSE.RU 96.UNITED ARAB EMIRATES 95.UKRAINE .ua Kohmanyuk, Dmitry DK379 dk+ at UA.NET 96.UNITED ARAB EMIRATES .ae Rashid, Walid WR102 postmaster at EMIRATES.NET.A E 97.UNITED KINGDOM .uk William Black (Dr) wblack at nominet.org.uk 98. old .gb domain. Existing sub-domains maintained by .uk 99.UZBEKISTAN .uz Vostrikov, Alex AV48 alex at FREENET.UZ 100.WESTERN SAHARA .eh Not assigned 101.YEMEN .ye DMCOM DMC-ORG telyemen at BATELCO.COM.BH 102.YUGOSLAVIA .yu Tasic, Mirjana TM109 tasic at TIES.ITU.CH k ------- End of Forwarded Message -------- Logged at Tue Feb 10 18:08:14 MET 1998 ---------

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KIS ASS
by Roberto.Gaetano＠etsi.fr 09 Feb '98

09 Feb '98

Jay, May I start by making one thing clear: I am a member of CORE, and this choice of mine suggests that there is some basic disagreement between ourselves that we will not be able to solve with just a couple of messages. Nevertheless, I think that rather than looking at this difference, we should look at our similarities, pretty much as two human beings of different race, that for long time may be opposed by the colour of the skin before realizing this to be a minor detail compared to the rest. The rest is being part of the Net. The rest is being part of the international community that is overcoming physical borders like mountains, rivers and oceans; overcoming national and political borders like walls and barbed wire; building a common network that unites people of different culture and language. This is the Net, a project that is in the hearts and souls of human beings, and that cannot be ruled by politicians. A project that is aimed at sharing experiences, not at establishing hierarchies. A project that can survive violent flame cyber-wars, but will be unable to survive government interference. Any government interference. I completely agree with you that anarchy is not the best solution, that at some point some rules have to be enforced, that some decisions have to be made. My point is that these rules have to be enforced by ourselves, and those decisions have to be made by ourselves, the cybernauts. We have to grow up to the point in which we decide for ourselves, and resist the temptation to have "big brother" decide for all of us. I know we have different point of view on the structure and operation of the Internet, and I assume we will find out even more differencies if we start discussing the details of "Internet Governance". Nevertheless, let me tell you that I will be able to accept in the future an Internet governed by your rules, endorsed in an internal democratic process, but I would be much less comfortable with an Internet governed by my rules, enforced by an external authority. This said (sorry for the wasted bandwidth, but I really had to do it, I feel better now), may I go to the specific point addressed by your message. You wrote: > I agree with most of what you've said, *except* the motive you > attribute > to the U.S. Government. After all, this *is* the same Commerce > Department > that has been leading the way in telecommunications deregulation. > Some even > suggest that this philosophy has been "exported" to the rest of the > world, > resulting in tremendous benefits world-wide. > > As an exercise, compare and contrast the ITU's contributions in > this area. > May have some truth, but the deregulation in the telecom business (at least in Europe) has come from an internal process of the Telecom industry, and specifically of the Telecom operators, that adapted to the evolving market. The driving force was not a paper of some colour from some government, but market evolution. It is absolutely true that this tendency started in the US, but there was no formal action from the US Government to determine the future asset of the European Telecom. It also has to be noted, even if it is out of the context (but the subject "ITU" has already been brought up by the Prosecutor, as Perry Mason would have said), that the role of the ITU has been very important in allowing the developing countries to survive this evolution, and ITU's effort in establishing formal recommendations and regulations was not at all aimed at countering the market evolution, going towards deregulation, but to limit the perverse effects of this evolution on the weaker part of the globe. IMHO. > >Instead, they should work with various consortiums all over the world > to come up > > with rules and policies that all should abide by and find some way > to enforce > >those who do not abide by those rules, but as the internet crosses > numerous > >borders, gaining the proper consensus (if there is such a thing) will > be > >difficult. > > I believe this is exactly what they are doing. And it *is* difficult. > Do you really believe that the US Government has consulted any other Government of the world or any other consortium, body, organization outside the US? I wish I could share your optimism on politicians. > >Governments are only good at wasting taxpayers' money, white-washing > the press > >and recently harassing women (oops... sorry, just had to put that > in...) and > > Two years ago, I might have agreed with you. My experience with > this process has convinced me otherwise. Maybe there are some > extremely dedicated and competent Government people involved with > this one, or maybe the very nature of the Internet forces > government to live up to our highest ideals. > > Whatever the reason, I think the USG process has been a good one. > We now have a chance to work with it to effect the best solution > possible, while being vigilant to the concerns that you raise. > I can't argue with this. If you have your reason to believe that the USG process has been a good one, you may be right. I personally think that governmental interference in this process is bad in itself, independently of which side they are on. What will happen now? Other government will be pissed off (the Europen Community is, for instance) and the whole matter will become a political fight. I don't know who will win, but I know who will lose: the Net, ourselves. EU will propose Eurocracy (as we call it on this side of the Ocean) versus American Rule, and, let me tell you, the powers of the world will get a political agreement in which the ideals that got "Our Thing" going will count less than yesterday's newspaper. Shouldn't we fight among ourselves, choosing the timing and weapons, instead of praising the intervention of external powers? > >The Internet currently works, and pretty damn well I think. If > anybody is to > >reign over the internet, it should be made via a voting system by the > users, for > > the users and with the users of that same Internet, not by any > government. > > That should be a big topic of debate. Representation is one of > the most important questions on the table, and IMHO, all ideas > and opinions are welcome. > You are absolutely right. Whatever the differencies between the two of us, even without knowing you I can tell you that I have more in common with you than with Ira Magaziner. Why should I now be forced to spend my time in fighting him instead of building something with you? Roberto -------- Logged at Sat Feb 7 14:02:08 MET 1998 ---------

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KIS ASS
by wbenton＠NWS.MEMOREX.CO.JP 09 Feb '98

09 Feb '98

The Internet is the only truely nationally boundless thing in the world. What the US Gov. is trying to do is to bind it. As it crosses international borders, the US has no right WHATSOEVER to try and contain it. They can withdraw their monies and support for it, but they should not be allowed to control it. Instead, they should work with various consortiums all over the world to come up with rules and policies that all should abide by and find some way to enforce those who do not abide by those rules, but as the internet crosses numerous borders, gaining the proper consensus (if there is such a thing) will be difficult. Governments are only good at wasting taxpayers' money, white-washing the press and recently harassing women (oops... sorry, just had to put that in...) and should not be allowed to control the Internet. Anything the US Govt. would try to do would end up placing borders on the internet within the US alone, but would have no effect elsewhere in the world. The Internet currently works, and pretty damn well I think. If anybody is to reign over the internet, it should be made via a voting system by the users, for the users and with the users of that same Internet, not by any government. The government has no controls over whom my company's President will be and neither should they try to decide who will head up the Internet as the internet is a large conglamorate of multi-national corporations, individuals, societies, and consortiums, similar to my own company. If the Govt. doesn't like what they see, then they should not use the Internet and instead, fund their own private project without the assistance of the Internet members/staff/corporations If they so desire. If you like it, use it; if not, then get the hell out; but don't try to control it. Sincerely, Walter Benton ___________________________________ ?? _______________________________________ ??: Re: KIS ASS ???: Bob Allisat <bob at wtv.net> at &NWS-Internet ??: 98/02/02 12:32 Tony wrote: >Until yesterday, no-one had challenged Jon Postel's authority to do what >he thought was best with regard to the roots, because he has earned the >respect of those operators. Over the last two years EVERYONE has ripped Postel's authority to shreds. And the pitiful respect of ten guys and a handful of IETF stiffs is irrelevant. Postel is deposed. What remains is to install the next regime. One which must be broad based and democratic. If any of you imagine what occured in the past was even remotely democratic you are deluding yourselves. TeleVirtually Yours, Bob Allisat http://www.wtv.net -------- Logged at Fri Feb 6 13:08:40 MET 1998 ---------

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Netizen's Message
by bob＠wtv.net 09 Feb '98

09 Feb '98

As the alleged technical master brains of the Internet drift further and further into error by never actually discussing the issues, we the people of the Internet grow ever more restless. No-one has dared to answered the quite basic questions. We say the current system could easily handle anywhere from ten to thirty thousand new Top Level Domains. We say the equipment necessary to operate a Domain Name Registrar/Registry (DNR) can easily reside on any standard WWW server like any other mildly interactive homepage on Earth. We even put up various demo version DNRs for one and all to see how damn simple it can be. No response except denial or silence from the super-brains. These forums are slowly bogging down on tangential concerns. Instead of addressing and clearly stating the facts the great "engineering" minds of the Earth, phucked and wandering, drift out of their area expertise and into the deep and dark shite minefield of political games. In the words of the immortal Robot: "Danger Will Robinson, DANGER"... The Internet routes around censorship. That's the way you silly people designed it to operate. And right about now the IETF/ISOC/IAB/IANA/IAHC/CORE/POC is looking more and more like a rather pathetic form of censorship of the diletante political newbie variety. To be routed around by every little motherphucker who wants to run a simple Domain Name Service like our own http://www.fcn.net (click on the blinking icon). To be routed around by every hacker pissed off at paying through the nose to Internic and facing the prospect of paying through every other orifice to the corporations you all seem hell bent upon installing or creating in the hell-alternative DNR scenarios you dummies dish up from time to time. Time for Bob to go into his eqaully bogus (but much more entertaining!) Oracle of the Net mode for a while. Suspension of disbelief hats on kids! This will be brief but fun, I promise you.... __________________________________________________________________ START Net to eggheads, Net to eggheads, come in Eggheads. This is an important message from the sixty million people who actually make up the Internet. Please remove your collective heads from your collective anai and listen up: We want our fucken namespace back. We liked it when it was for free, back before that heinous fifty dollar fee was shoved down our throats. Before the money hog craziness. Before all this stupid, over-blown garbage started coming from you people. We don't want "THE SYSTEM" (Insert reverb) to crash down. We don't want to fragment the damned thing either. We want as many independant, widely dispersed and differant options to choose from as TECHNICALLY (insert tunder) feasible. And we don't want them all to be big stinken lawyer infested corporate Domain Name Registries either. There's room for everyone and even for dissent, irony, humour and people who bust the idea of Trademarks to kingdom come. Now make it happen. Or else we will design code, java scripts, routing patterns and so on to obsolete the lot of you and your damned anal ideas about networking. And stop playing fucken god while you're at it with all your stupid "Black Hole" ideas and wanker hissy fits about anything/everything that even remotely offends your rather limited views of that big ole brawlen universe out there. End of message, over and out and a big 10-4 from your hugmongous everyone else out here newbie buddy which in totality make ya'll geek doinks look like so many gnats flying around so many elephants' assholes. Cheers! __________________________________________________________________ FINISH Now lets see if any of you can process that. I highly doubt it so far into even deeper bogosity have you all strayed. In fact I feel more and more assured that it is the Internet at large that will create the solution. That it's almost pointless to waste anymore time with such inconsequential diliberations. The old God Postel is wandering around, blind and senile, bellowing orders in his whisper voice. And all his pitiful dieties are scrambling around their silly cyber-olympus desparately trying to obey, hurling their ineffectual thunderbolts and crashing their tin cymbal thunderclaps to try and cow the billion people poised to occupy the net into their itsy bitsy teeny weeny vision of reality. All we have to do is sit back, smile and wait as the old world crashes down under the weight of the onrushing, all delusion crushing humanity of it all. Thank you for patiently abiding my illusions for this ephemeral and poignant moment in a wonky and getting even wonkier time-space continuum type of way. I remain... TeleVirtually Yours, Bob Allisat http://www.wtv.net -------- Logged at Mon Feb 9 10:33:53 MET 1998 ---------

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