At 04:00 PM 11/30/98 +0100, Joao Luis Silva Damas wrote:
Just check http://www.checkdomain.com with some nonexistant domain housed at
RIPE and tell me if something isn't wrong here. -Hank
>Hello.
>
>I am including the tld-wg into this discussion so as to make sure all involved
>parties are aware of the discussion.
>
> Alexander Koch <akoch at sgh-net.de> writes:
> * Hello.
> *
> * > The design of this feature was specified some time ago by Carol Orange and
> *
> * > Wilfried Woeber (please see http://www.ripe.net/meetings/ripe/ripe-27/pres
> * /rout
> * > e/referral/) and discussed in the RIPE db-wg mailing list (please see
> * > http://www.ripe.net/mail-archives/db-wg/19970501-19970601/threads.html)
> *
> * Oh. Fine. Do I get it right that this was discussed and agreed on
> * more than a year ago? Argh.
> *
>
>Yes, indeed. We had a period where we have been late with developments. That
>period is now behind us.
>
> * This change breaks too many things, imnsho, and it seems again that if
> * you are not able to make it to the RIPE meetings, you have lost. A
> * special announce would have been most helpful (an explicit one, stating
> * this).
> *
>
>But, we did... or so I thought. We'll look into more ways of getting this
>announcements across while trying to minimize the mails sent to people who
>don't care about this.
>
>This particular feature has been actively asked for by the ccTLD
>adninistrators and seen as a good thing by everyone I have had a chance to
>speak with. These are actually the first complaints about it we have got so
>far.
>
> * > As a side note I would like to stress that the RIPE Database is NOT the so
> * urce
> * > of authoritative data for domain objects (although we are happy to provide
> * a
> * > repository for TLD administrators).
> * > This is UNLIKE the internic whose business is to sell names.
> *
> * Oh. Fine. whois.nic.de *cough* barely ever working... Weak argument.
> * And If I wanted to know the data about the domain one level higher,
> * I can do so myself, I don't need to get it told to me by whois, I
> * want to know whether crab.de (bad example, it really exists) is in
> * the DB already or not.
>
>I am sorry but I can't talk about the availability of services we don't
>operate.
>
>I am sure you can look up domains yourself but this was actually seen as
>providing the users (specially the ones less familiar with the RIPE DB) with
>help on where to find the correct information.
>
>It seems to me that over time people have developed a sense that the RIPE DB
>is the authoritative source of information regarding domain names in Europe.
>May be this issue should be up for debate now.
>
>As a matter of fact the referral mechanism was seen as a way for ccTLD
>administrators to include information in the Database pointing to their own
>authoritative sources of information.
>
> *
> * > The RIPE NCC is therefore acting according to users directives that were
> * > discussed and agreed on an open way.
> *
> * Hitchhiker's Guide, anyone? *sigh*
>
>???
>
> *
> * This was a not-so-nice change, really. Consider this a statement of
> * disagreement with the way the change took place. Ok, one more mailling
> * list to follow... Time to sell.
>
>Will do so. As I said before, we will keep modifying and developing the RIPE
>DB software and in particular this feature if users feel that is what they
>want. We will also provide our point view.
>I would like to have the input of the community.
>
>Regards,
>Joao
>
> *
> * Regards,
> * Alexander Koch
> *
> * --
> * SGH Internet Division, Alexander Koch, Systems Administration
> * Hannover, Germany, Phone +49 511 909198 0, Fax +49 511 391307
> *
>
>
>
-------- Logged at Mon Nov 30 16:28:47 MET 1998 ---------
Hi,
Michael van Elst <mlelstv at xlink.net> writes:
*
* I'm not sure what needs to be 'rectified'. But if you silently change
* the semantics of a public database more than a year after a discussion
* that wasn't attended by its current users, then you shouldn't wonder
* about complaints.
Well, Hank is hardly a new user.
And yes, we took too long to deploy this feature, however, I can't see that
the issues would have been different a year ago (maybe I am wrong).
I am not having an exercise on defending against changing this.
I am more than glad to make changes if the community asks for them (and to
propose new ones that we think make sense).
I want to see what the rest of the people think since the previous consensus
was different to what I am seeing now.
*
* But complaining alone doesn't achieve anything. As it appears
* the database lacks the feature of an exact-match query and I
* kindly propose to add such a feature.
*
Well the purpose of the design is to give the user information about the
parent domain if a certain domain is missing. That's also how the rest of the
lookups in the RIPE DB work and is also what you do when looking in the DNS
for contact info for a domain and you can't find it.
May be people now see the need for an exact matching option (there is already
one to disable referral: -R). However if you make this the default behaviour
then the purpose of the referral mechanism is defeated.
Joao
*
* Regards,
* --
* i.A. Michael van Elst / phone: +49 721 6635 330
* Xlink - Network Information Centre \/ fax: +49 721 6635 349
* Vincenz-Priessnitz-Str. 3 /\ link http://nic.xlink.net/
* D-76131 Karlsruhe, Germany /_______ email: hostmaster at xlink.net
* [ Xlink Internet Consulting GmbH, Sitz Koeln ]
* [ Amtsgericht Koeln HRB 3526, Geschaeftsfuehrer: Michael Rotert ]
*
*
-------- Logged at Tue Dec 1 12:43:46 MET 1998 ---------
Hello.
I am including the tld-wg into this discussion so as to make sure all involved
parties are aware of the discussion.
Alexander Koch <akoch at sgh-net.de> writes:
* Hello.
*
* > The design of this feature was specified some time ago by Carol Orange and
*
* > Wilfried Woeber (please see http://www.ripe.net/meetings/ripe/ripe-27/pres
* /rout
* > e/referral/) and discussed in the RIPE db-wg mailing list (please see
* > http://www.ripe.net/mail-archives/db-wg/19970501-19970601/threads.html)
*
* Oh. Fine. Do I get it right that this was discussed and agreed on
* more than a year ago? Argh.
*
Yes, indeed. We had a period where we have been late with developments. That
period is now behind us.
* This change breaks too many things, imnsho, and it seems again that if
* you are not able to make it to the RIPE meetings, you have lost. A
* special announce would have been most helpful (an explicit one, stating
* this).
*
But, we did... or so I thought. We'll look into more ways of getting this
announcements across while trying to minimize the mails sent to people who
don't care about this.
This particular feature has been actively asked for by the ccTLD
adninistrators and seen as a good thing by everyone I have had a chance to
speak with. These are actually the first complaints about it we have got so
far.
* > As a side note I would like to stress that the RIPE Database is NOT the so
* urce
* > of authoritative data for domain objects (although we are happy to provide
* a
* > repository for TLD administrators).
* > This is UNLIKE the internic whose business is to sell names.
*
* Oh. Fine. whois.nic.de *cough* barely ever working... Weak argument.
* And If I wanted to know the data about the domain one level higher,
* I can do so myself, I don't need to get it told to me by whois, I
* want to know whether crab.de (bad example, it really exists) is in
* the DB already or not.
I am sorry but I can't talk about the availability of services we don't
operate.
I am sure you can look up domains yourself but this was actually seen as
providing the users (specially the ones less familiar with the RIPE DB) with
help on where to find the correct information.
It seems to me that over time people have developed a sense that the RIPE DB
is the authoritative source of information regarding domain names in Europe.
May be this issue should be up for debate now.
As a matter of fact the referral mechanism was seen as a way for ccTLD
administrators to include information in the Database pointing to their own
authoritative sources of information.
*
* > The RIPE NCC is therefore acting according to users directives that were
* > discussed and agreed on an open way.
*
* Hitchhiker's Guide, anyone? *sigh*
???
*
* This was a not-so-nice change, really. Consider this a statement of
* disagreement with the way the change took place. Ok, one more mailling
* list to follow... Time to sell.
Will do so. As I said before, we will keep modifying and developing the RIPE
DB software and in particular this feature if users feel that is what they
want. We will also provide our point view.
I would like to have the input of the community.
Regards,
Joao
*
* Regards,
* Alexander Koch
*
* --
* SGH Internet Division, Alexander Koch, Systems Administration
* Hannover, Germany, Phone +49 511 909198 0, Fax +49 511 391307
*
-------- Logged at Mon Nov 30 16:15:12 MET 1998 ---------
http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,28395,00.html?owv
God Bless You,
Sean
Sean Jackson, 3 Adams Road, Cambridge, CB3 9AD, United Kingdom.
Tel: 01223 464 800 Fax: 0171 681 1268
-------- Logged at Mon Nov 30 16:01:46 MET 1998 ---------
