The dangers of demonizing bogons 2019-08 : (Fwd: [ncc-announce] [news] Sanctions and the RIPE NCC: Status Update)
Dear group, This message is in context of 2019-08 and related policy proposals in other regions of the world. When the RPKI is changed from an "opt-in" to an "no opt-out" mechanism, things will break horribly. Christian's message should make that clear. Imagine that the sanctions progress in intensity, to a state where RIPE NCC must de-register the resources assigned to the 3 members on the sanctions list. Their resources would stop being assigned, and move into the unassigned pool. This means they'll end up on the SLURM file, and if *you* use that SLURM file you will NOT be able to communicate via the Internet with fellow humans who happened to be born into an unfortunate situation. For this reason I will not use such SLURM files, they have the potential to do far more harm than they are doing me good. https://labs.ripe.net/Members/job_snijders/dont-terminate-peoples-internet-c... The people in charge will find a way to browse the web anyway (satellite, lease IPs from other places), where stuff like this really hurts is the small people that are trying to find information on the Internet about the state of the world. Please read the below and ask yourself whether it really is worth it to pursue 2019-08 or related policies in other regions. Kind regards, Job ----- Original message ----- From: Christian Kaufmann <exec-board@ripe.net> To: ncc-announce@ripe.net Subject: [ncc-announce] [news] Sanctions and the RIPE NCC: Status Update Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2020 13:09 Dear members, I want to briefly update you on the current situation involving sanctions, following my last email back in April[1]. In short, there have been no major developments and the situation is largely unchanged. However, to keep you informed, allow me to briefly run through this again. STATUS OF EXEMPTION REQUEST AND FROZEN MEMBERSHIPS In April, we mentioned that the RIPE NCC was seeking an exemption from EU sanctions regulation from the Dutch authorities. The authorities have indicated that their response will take longer than usual, possibly due to the COVID-19 situation. We will inform you when we receive a decision on our request. For the three members believed to be on the sanctions list, this means that their LIR accounts remain frozen and they remain unable to access RIPE NCC services. While this is not ideal, it does mean that their resources have not been deregistered. BANK TRANSFERS FROM IRANIAN AND SYRIAN MEMBERS My earlier email also mentioned that the RIPE NCC's bank had temporarily revoked its ability to receive bank transfers from members in Iran and Syria. Unfortunately, this restriction remains in place and will likely remain so until the RIPE NCC receives a response to its exemption request. As this will probably take longer than the 1 July payment deadline, the RIPE NCC is looking at ways to address this and will follow up with affected members directly. RIPE NCC EXECUTIVE BOARD POSITION This is also unchanged, but I think you'll agree that this is a good thing: "The Executive Board of the RIPE NCC believes that the means of communication should not be affected by political discussions or disputes. This includes the provision of correctly registered Internet numbering resources."[2] At our board meeting last week, we reaffirmed that the RIPE NCC is committed to pursuing all legal means to continue providing services to all of its members. As we have already stated, we believe the Internet is a critical tool for humanity and should not be affected by political discussions. I regret that we are not yet able to give a more positive update, we are doing all we can to resolve this issue. If you have any questions or comments for the board, please contact us at <exec-board@ripe.net>. Regards Christian Kaufmann RIPE NCC Executive Board Chairman [1] Sanctions and the RIPE NCC: Current Status and Executive Board Position: https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/ncc-announce/2020-April/001413.html [2] Executive Board Resolution on Continuity of Services to all RIPE NCC Members: https://www.ripe.net/publications/news/about-ripe-ncc-and-ripe/executive-boa...
Job, Although I see your concerns I don't agree that 2019-08 changes RPKI from "opt-in" to "no opt-out". In fact, 2019-08 gives you options to "opt-in" in multiple ways and so gives you options to choose from. Regards, Melchior On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 3:46 PM Job Snijders <job@ntt.net> wrote:
Dear group,
This message is in context of 2019-08 and related policy proposals in other regions of the world. When the RPKI is changed from an "opt-in" to an "no opt-out" mechanism, things will break horribly. Christian's message should make that clear.
Imagine that the sanctions progress in intensity, to a state where RIPE NCC must de-register the resources assigned to the 3 members on the sanctions list. Their resources would stop being assigned, and move into the unassigned pool. This means they'll end up on the SLURM file, and if *you* use that SLURM file you will NOT be able to communicate via the Internet with fellow humans who happened to be born into an unfortunate situation. For this reason I will not use such SLURM files, they have the potential to do far more harm than they are doing me good.
https://labs.ripe.net/Members/job_snijders/dont-terminate-peoples-internet-c...
The people in charge will find a way to browse the web anyway (satellite, lease IPs from other places), where stuff like this really hurts is the small people that are trying to find information on the Internet about the state of the world.
Please read the below and ask yourself whether it really is worth it to pursue 2019-08 or related policies in other regions.
Kind regards,
Job
----- Original message ----- From: Christian Kaufmann <exec-board@ripe.net> To: ncc-announce@ripe.net Subject: [ncc-announce] [news] Sanctions and the RIPE NCC: Status Update Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2020 13:09
Dear members,
I want to briefly update you on the current situation involving sanctions, following my last email back in April[1].
In short, there have been no major developments and the situation is largely unchanged. However, to keep you informed, allow me to briefly run through this again.
STATUS OF EXEMPTION REQUEST AND FROZEN MEMBERSHIPS
In April, we mentioned that the RIPE NCC was seeking an exemption from EU sanctions regulation from the Dutch authorities. The authorities have indicated that their response will take longer than usual, possibly due to the COVID-19 situation. We will inform you when we receive a decision on our request.
For the three members believed to be on the sanctions list, this means that their LIR accounts remain frozen and they remain unable to access RIPE NCC services. While this is not ideal, it does mean that their resources have not been deregistered.
BANK TRANSFERS FROM IRANIAN AND SYRIAN MEMBERS
My earlier email also mentioned that the RIPE NCC's bank had temporarily revoked its ability to receive bank transfers from members in Iran and Syria. Unfortunately, this restriction remains in place and will likely remain so until the RIPE NCC receives a response to its exemption request.
As this will probably take longer than the 1 July payment deadline, the RIPE NCC is looking at ways to address this and will follow up with affected members directly.
RIPE NCC EXECUTIVE BOARD POSITION
This is also unchanged, but I think you'll agree that this is a good thing: "The Executive Board of the RIPE NCC believes that the means of communication should not be affected by political discussions or disputes. This includes the provision of correctly registered Internet numbering resources."[2]
At our board meeting last week, we reaffirmed that the RIPE NCC is committed to pursuing all legal means to continue providing services to all of its members. As we have already stated, we believe the Internet is a critical tool for humanity and should not be affected by political discussions.
I regret that we are not yet able to give a more positive update, we are doing all we can to resolve this issue. If you have any questions or comments for the board, please contact us at <exec-board@ripe.net>.
Regards
Christian Kaufmann RIPE NCC Executive Board Chairman
[1] Sanctions and the RIPE NCC: Current Status and Executive Board Position: https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/ncc-announce/2020-April/001413.html
[2] Executive Board Resolution on Continuity of Services to all RIPE NCC Members:
https://www.ripe.net/publications/news/about-ripe-ncc-and-ripe/executive-boa...
Melchior Aelmans wrote on 24/06/2020 19:27:
Although I see your concerns I don't agree that 2019-08 changes RPKI from "opt-in" to "no opt-out". In fact, 2019-08 gives you options to "opt-in" in multiple ways and so gives you options to choose from.
Network engineers see tools. Other people see big red buttons, itching to be pushed. There's no shortage of people wanting these buttons to be created, e.g. https://twitter.com/CarolineGreer/status/1268835511222894598 The further down this road we progress as a community towards making centralised black-holing via a single court order a feasible reality, the more difficult it will be to reverse out when we realise we've gone too far. I do not support the proposal for this reason. Nick
Hi, 26 juin 2020 01:22 "Nick Hilliard" <nick@foobar.org> a écrit:
Melchior Aelmans wrote on 24/06/2020 19:27:
Although I see your concerns I don't agree that 2019-08 changes RPKI > from "opt-in" to "no opt-out". In fact, 2019-08 gives you options to > "opt-in" in multiple ways and so gives you options to choose from.
Network engineers see tools. Other people see big red buttons, itching to be pushed.
There's no shortage of people wanting these buttons to be created, e.g.
https://twitter.com/CarolineGreer/status/1268835511222894598
The further down this road we progress as a community towards making centralised black-holing via a single court order a feasible reality, the more difficult it will be to reverse out when we realise we've gone too far.
I do not support the proposal for this reason.
Same here: I don't support it, for the same reason. mh
Nick
participants (4)
-
Job Snijders -
Melchior Aelmans -
Michael Hallgren -
Nick Hilliard