September 2024 - routing-wg - mailman.ripe.net

Qualitative Study: “Routing Realities: Assessing the practicality of academic BGP security solutions in network operations”
by Aleeza Suhel Inamdar 13 Sep '24

13 Sep '24

Hello! My name is Aleeza, and I am a student pursuing my Master's thesis at the Max-Planck-Institute for Informatics. I am writing to cordially invite you to participate in an asynchronous online focus group study as part of our research project titled “Routing Realities: Assessing the practicality of academic BGP security solutions in network operations”. Study Overview: This study, conducted by our research team, including myself, Mannat Kaur, and Tobias Fiebig, aims to explore the practicality of academic solutions, with a particular focus on BGP security. Your insights as a network operator will be invaluable in helping us understand the challenges and identify opportunities for improvement. Focus Group Details: Start Date: Around 3rd week of September Platform: Mattermost Total Runtime: 4 - (max) 6 weeks Total Questions: 6 Format: 1 week(maximum)/question Your Participation: As a participant, you will be asked to share your experiences, challenges, perspectives on the practical implementation of BGP security solutions proposed by academic research in real-world network environments, and engage in online group discussions with other network operators. The focus group discussions are asynchronous, and we encourage you to contribute your insights at a pace that suits your schedule. You can engage in the discussions all at once or spread your contributions across multiple days, depending on what is most convenient for you. If you have any questions or need additional information, please feel free to contact us. Registration: https://nextcloud.mpi-inf.mpg.de/index.php/apps/forms/s/WHnXHBDRgo3srisj5w3… I look forward to your participation in this study. Contact: asuhelin(a)mpi-inf.mpg.de, mkaur(a)mpi-inf.mpg.de, tfiebig(a)mpi-inf.mpg.de Thank you!

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Weekly Global IPv4 Routing Table Report
by Routing Table Analysis Role Account 13 Sep '24

13 Sep '24

This is an automated weekly mailing describing the state of the Global IPv4 Routing Table as seen from APNIC's router in Japan. The posting is sent to APOPS, NANOG, AfNOG, SANOG, PacNOG, SAFNOG UKNOF, TZNOG, MENOG, BJNOG, SDNOG, CMNOG, LACNOG and the RIPE Routing WG. Daily listings are sent to bgp-stats(a)lists.apnic.net. For historical data, please see https://thyme.apnic.net. If you have any comments please contact Philip Smith <pfsinoz(a)gmail.com>. IPv4 Routing Table Report 04:00 +10GMT Sat 14 Sep, 2024 IPv4 BGP Table (Global) as seen at Japan. Report Website: https://thyme.apnic.net Detailed Analysis: https://thyme.apnic.net/current/ Analysis Summary ---------------- BGP routing table entries examined: 959790 Prefixes after maximum aggregation (per Origin AS): 365814 Deaggregation factor: 2.62 Unique aggregates announced (without unneeded subnets): 466039 Number of IPv4 prefixes with a valid ROA: 401333 Number of IPv4 prefixes with an invalid ROA: 1266 Number of IPv4 prefixes with no ROA: 557191 Total ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 76206 Prefixes per ASN: 12.59 Origin-only ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 65246 Origin ASes announcing only one prefix: 26829 Transit ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 10960 Transit-only ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 534 Average AS path length visible in the Internet Routing Table: 5.3 Max AS path length visible: 84 Max AS path prepend of ASN (152107) 80 Prefixes from unregistered ASNs in the Routing Table: 995 Number of instances of unregistered ASNs: 1005 Number of 32-bit ASNs allocated by the RIRs: 45348 Number of 32-bit ASNs visible in the Routing Table: 37070 Prefixes from 32-bit ASNs in the Routing Table: 192329 Number of bogon 32-bit ASNs visible in the Routing Table: 47 Special use prefixes present in the Routing Table: 1 Prefixes being announced from unallocated address space: 571 Number of addresses announced to Internet: 3034664704 Equivalent to 180 /8s, 225 /16s and 79 /24s Percentage of available address space announced: 82.0 Percentage of allocated address space announced: 82.0 Percentage of available address space allocated: 100.0 Percentage of address space in use by end-sites: 99.6 Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations: 313926 APNIC Region Analysis Summary ----------------------------- Prefixes being announced by APNIC Region ASes: 257564 Total APNIC prefixes after maximum aggregation: 75593 APNIC Deaggregation factor: 3.41 Prefixes being announced from the APNIC address blocks: 249208 Unique aggregates announced from the APNIC address blocks: 100738 APNIC Region origin ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 14350 APNIC Prefixes per ASN: 17.37 APNIC Region origin ASes announcing only one prefix: 4370 APNIC Region transit ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 1912 Average APNIC Region AS path length visible: 5.5 Max APNIC Region AS path length visible: 84 Number of APNIC region 32-bit ASNs visible in the Routing Table: 9765 Number of APNIC addresses announced to Internet: 762166912 Equivalent to 45 /8s, 109 /16s and 190 /24s APNIC AS Blocks 4608-4864, 7467-7722, 9216-10239, 17408-18431 (pre-ERX allocations) 23552-24575, 37888-38911, 45056-46079, 55296-56319, 58368-59391, 63488-64098, 64297-64395, 131072-153913 APNIC Address Blocks 1/8, 14/8, 27/8, 36/8, 39/8, 42/8, 43/8, 49/8, 58/8, 59/8, 60/8, 61/8, 101/8, 103/8, 106/8, 110/8, 111/8, 112/8, 113/8, 114/8, 115/8, 116/8, 117/8, 118/8, 119/8, 120/8, 121/8, 122/8, 123/8, 124/8, 125/8, 126/8, 133/8, 150/8, 153/8, 163/8, 171/8, 175/8, 180/8, 182/8, 183/8, 202/8, 203/8, 210/8, 211/8, 218/8, 219/8, 220/8, 221/8, 222/8, 223/8, ARIN Region Analysis Summary ---------------------------- Prefixes being announced by ARIN Region ASes: 279829 Total ARIN prefixes after maximum aggregation: 126061 ARIN Deaggregation factor: 2.22 Prefixes being announced from the ARIN address blocks: 283753 Unique aggregates announced from the ARIN address blocks: 135048 ARIN Region origin ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 19157 ARIN Prefixes per ASN: 14.81 ARIN Region origin ASes announcing only one prefix: 6964 ARIN Region transit ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 2006 Average ARIN Region AS path length visible: 4.6 Max ARIN Region AS path length visible: 28 Number of ARIN region 32-bit ASNs visible in the Routing Table: 5001 Number of ARIN addresses announced to Internet: 1266977280 Equivalent to 75 /8s, 132 /16s and 138 /24s ARIN AS Blocks 1-1876, 1902-2042, 2044-2046, 2048-2106 (pre-ERX allocations) 2138-2584, 2615-2772, 2823-2829, 2880-3153 3354-4607, 4865-5119, 5632-6655, 6912-7466 7723-8191, 10240-12287, 13312-15359, 16384-17407 18432-20479, 21504-23551, 25600-26591, 26624-27647, 29696-30719, 31744-33791 35840-36863, 39936-40959, 46080-47103 53248-55295, 62464-63487, 64198-64296, 393216-402332 ARIN Address Blocks 3/8, 4/8, 6/8, 7/8, 8/8, 9/8, 11/8, 12/8, 13/8, 15/8, 16/8, 17/8, 18/8, 19/8, 20/8, 21/8, 22/8, 23/8, 24/8, 26/8, 28/8, 29/8, 30/8, 32/8, 33/8, 34/8, 35/8, 38/8, 40/8, 44/8, 47/8, 48/8, 50/8, 52/8, 53/8, 54/8, 55/8, 56/8, 57/8, 63/8, 64/8, 65/8, 66/8, 67/8, 68/8, 69/8, 70/8, 71/8, 72/8, 73/8, 74/8, 75/8, 76/8, 96/8, 97/8, 98/8, 99/8, 100/8, 104/8, 107/8, 108/8, 128/8, 129/8, 130/8, 131/8, 132/8, 134/8, 135/8, 136/8, 137/8, 138/8, 139/8, 140/8, 142/8, 143/8, 144/8, 146/8, 147/8, 148/8, 149/8, 152/8, 155/8, 156/8, 157/8, 158/8, 159/8, 160/8, 161/8, 162/8, 164/8, 165/8, 166/8, 167/8, 168/8, 169/8, 170/8, 172/8, 173/8, 174/8, 184/8, 192/8, 198/8, 199/8, 204/8, 205/8, 206/8, 207/8, 208/8, 209/8, 214/8, 215/8, 216/8, RIPE Region Analysis Summary ---------------------------- Prefixes being announced by RIPE Region ASes: 266620 Total RIPE prefixes after maximum aggregation: 128727 RIPE Deaggregation factor: 2.07 Prefixes being announced from the RIPE address blocks: 262945 Unique aggregates announced from the RIPE address blocks: 166902 RIPE Region origin ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 28737 RIPE Prefixes per ASN: 9.15 RIPE Region origin ASes announcing only one prefix: 12126 RIPE Region transit ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 3980 Average RIPE Region AS path length visible: 5.4 Max RIPE Region AS path length visible: 43 Number of RIPE region 32-bit ASNs visible in the Routing Table: 11999 Number of RIPE addresses announced to Internet: 723305088 Equivalent to 43 /8s, 28 /16s and 194 /24s RIPE AS Blocks 1877-1901, 2043, 2047, 2107-2136, 2585-2614 (pre-ERX allocations) 2773-2822, 2830-2879, 3154-3353, 5377-5631 6656-6911, 8192-9215, 12288-13311, 15360-16383 20480-21503, 24576-25599, 28672-29695 30720-31743, 33792-35839, 38912-39935 40960-45055, 47104-52223, 56320-58367 59392-61439, 61952-62463, 64396-64495 196608-216475 RIPE Address Blocks 2/8, 5/8, 25/8, 31/8, 37/8, 46/8, 51/8, 62/8, 77/8, 78/8, 79/8, 80/8, 81/8, 82/8, 83/8, 84/8, 85/8, 86/8, 87/8, 88/8, 89/8, 90/8, 91/8, 92/8, 93/8, 94/8, 95/8, 109/8, 141/8, 145/8, 151/8, 176/8, 178/8, 185/8, 188/8, 193/8, 194/8, 195/8, 212/8, 213/8, 217/8, LACNIC Region Analysis Summary ------------------------------ Prefixes being announced by LACNIC Region ASes: 122573 Total LACNIC prefixes after maximum aggregation: 28363 LACNIC Deaggregation factor: 4.32 Prefixes being announced from the LACNIC address blocks: 120390 Unique aggregates announced from the LACNIC address blocks: 48507 LACNIC Region origin ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 11157 LACNIC Prefixes per ASN: 10.79 LACNIC Region origin ASes announcing only one prefix: 2686 LACNIC Region transit ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 2485 Average LACNIC Region AS path length visible: 5.9 Max LACNIC Region AS path length visible: 61 Number of LACNIC region 32-bit ASNs visible in the Routing Table: 9061 Number of LACNIC addresses announced to Internet: 177722880 Equivalent to 10 /8s, 151 /16s and 214 /24s LACNIC AS Blocks 26592-26623, 27648-28671, 52224-53247, 61440-61951, 64099-64197, 262144-274844 + ERX transfers LACNIC Address Blocks 177/8, 179/8, 181/8, 186/8, 187/8, 189/8, 190/8, 191/8, 200/8, 201/8, AfriNIC Region Analysis Summary ------------------------------- Prefixes being announced by AfriNIC Region ASes: 32209 Total AfriNIC prefixes after maximum aggregation: 6428 AfriNIC Deaggregation factor: 5.01 Prefixes being announced from the AfriNIC address blocks: 42923 Unique aggregates announced from the AfriNIC address blocks: 14368 AfriNIC Region origin ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 1880 AfriNIC Prefixes per ASN: 22.83 AfriNIC Region origin ASes announcing only one prefix: 683 AfriNIC Region transit ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 367 Average AfriNIC Region AS path length visible: 6.0 Max AfriNIC Region AS path length visible: 30 Number of AfriNIC region 32-bit ASNs visible in the Routing Table: 1244 Number of AfriNIC addresses announced to Internet: 104182784 Equivalent to 6 /8s, 53 /16s and 180 /24s AfriNIC AS Blocks 36864-37887, 327680-329727 & ERX transfers AfriNIC Address Blocks 41/8, 45/8, 102/8, 105/8, 154/8, 196/8, 197/8, APNIC Region per AS prefix count summary ---------------------------------------- ASN No of nets /20 equiv MaxAgg Description 9808 9947 8747 80 CHINAMOBILE-CN China Mobile Communication 7545 5706 840 658 TPG-INTERNET-AP TPG Telecom Limited, AU 4538 4949 4192 74 ERX-CERNET-BKB China Education and Resear 18403 4298 347 23 FPT-AS-AP FPT Telecom Company, VN 7552 3976 1331 21 VIETEL-AS-AP Viettel Group, VN 9498 3789 508 261 BBIL-AP BHARTI Airtel Ltd., IN 7713 3617 1044 66 TELKOMNET-AS-AP PT Telekomunikasi Indones 45899 3261 1841 105 VNPT-AS-VN VNPT Corp, VN 24560 2808 841 467 AIRTELBROADBAND-AS-AP Bharti Airtel Ltd., 4766 2273 11520 578 KIXS-AS-KR Korea Telecom, KR Complete listing at https://thyme.apnic.net/current/data-ASnet-APNIC ARIN Region per AS prefix count summary --------------------------------------- ASN No of nets /20 equiv MaxAgg Description 16509 10716 11807 3745 AMAZON-02, US 11492 4642 308 545 CABLEONE, US 7155 4169 287 89 VIASAT-SP-BACKBONE, US 174 3924 8780 906 COGENT-174, US 6327 3602 1320 79 SHAW, CA 749 3484 55080 2707 DNIC-AS-00749, US 22773 3423 3035 187 ASN-CXA-ALL-CCI-22773-RDC, US 7018 3085 23684 1932 ATT-INTERNET4, US 16625 2856 1268 2131 AKAMAI-AS, US 396982 2814 3570 432 GOOGLE-CLOUD-PLATFORM, US Complete listing at https://thyme.apnic.net/current/data-ASnet-ARIN RIPE Region per AS prefix count summary --------------------------------------- ASN No of nets /20 equiv MaxAgg Description 12479 7637 1708 145 UNI2-AS, ES 39891 4466 269 55 ALJAWWALSTC-AS, SA 20940 3826 3395 129 AKAMAI-ASN1, NL 9009 3672 313 1863 M247, RO 12389 2938 2295 888 ROSTELECOM-AS, RU 34984 2334 359 585 TELLCOM-AS, TR 212238 1810 129 1333 CDNEXT, GB 13188 1607 100 26 TRIOLAN, UA 8452 1580 1852 14 TE-AS TE-AS, EG 62240 1409 93 672 CLOUVIDER Clouvider - Global ASN, GB Complete listing at https://thyme.apnic.net/current/data-ASnet-RIPE LACNIC Region per AS prefix count summary ----------------------------------------- ASN No of nets /20 equiv MaxAgg Description 8151 11692 3251 496 UNINET, MX 10620 3543 494 935 Telmex Colombia S.A., CO 13999 2552 534 364 Mega Cable, S.A. de C.V., MX 11830 2009 369 64 Instituto Costarricense de Electricidad y 28573 1339 2309 261 Claro NXT Telecomunicacoes Ltda, BR 3816 1317 776 204 COLOMBIA TELECOMUNICACIONES S.A. ESP, CO 11664 1180 278 33 Techtel LMDS Comunicaciones Interactivas 6503 1149 374 163 Axtel, S.A.B. de C.V., MX 6147 1103 369 22 Telefonica del Peru S.A.A., PE 22884 1068 96 374 TOTAL PLAY TELECOMUNICACIONES SA DE CV, M Complete listing at https://thyme.apnic.net/current/data-ASnet-LACNIC AfriNIC Region per AS prefix count summary ------------------------------------------ ASN No of nets /20 equiv MaxAgg Description 24835 1611 593 29 RAYA-AS, EG 24863 1598 389 18 LINKdotNET-AS, EG 36992 1411 1519 282 ETISALAT-MISR, EG 29571 1336 85 65 ORANGE-COTE-IVOIRE, CI 36903 1249 554 96 MT-MPLS, MA 36935 953 523 48 Vodafone-, EG 6713 557 1861 35 IAM-AS, MA 36914 545 82 3 KENET-AS, KE 15399 512 57 58 WANANCHI-, KE 24757 438 73 5 EthioNet-AS, ET Complete listing at https://thyme.apnic.net/current/data-ASnet-AFRINIC Global Per AS prefix count summary ---------------------------------- ASN No of nets /20 equiv MaxAgg Description 8151 11692 3251 496 UNINET, MX 16509 10716 11807 3745 AMAZON-02, US 9808 9947 8747 80 CHINAMOBILE-CN China Mobile Communication 12479 7637 1708 145 UNI2-AS, ES 7545 5706 840 658 TPG-INTERNET-AP TPG Telecom Limited, AU 4538 4949 4192 74 ERX-CERNET-BKB China Education and Resear 11492 4642 308 545 CABLEONE, US 39891 4466 269 55 ALJAWWALSTC-AS, SA 18403 4298 347 23 FPT-AS-AP FPT Telecom Company, VN 7155 4169 287 89 VIASAT-SP-BACKBONE, US Complete listing at https://thyme.apnic.net/current/data-ASnet Global Per AS Maximum Aggregation summary ----------------------------------------- ASN No of nets Net Savings Description 9808 9947 9867 CHINAMOBILE-CN China Mobile Communications Grou 12479 7637 7492 UNI2-AS, ES 16509 10716 6971 AMAZON-02, US 7545 5706 5048 TPG-INTERNET-AP TPG Telecom Limited, AU 4538 4949 4875 ERX-CERNET-BKB China Education and Research Net 39891 4466 4411 ALJAWWALSTC-AS, SA 18403 4298 4275 FPT-AS-AP FPT Telecom Company, VN 11492 4642 4097 CABLEONE, US 7155 4169 4080 VIASAT-SP-BACKBONE, US 7552 3976 3955 VIETEL-AS-AP Viettel Group, VN Complete listing at https://thyme.apnic.net/current/data-CIDRnet List of Unregistered Origin ASNs (Global) ----------------------------------------- Bad AS Designation Net Originated Transit AS Transit AS Name 33123 UNALLOCATED 8.10.69.0/24 174 COGENT-174, US 12169 UNALLOCATED 8.15.207.0/24 32787 PROLEXIC-TECHNOLOGIES-D 40493 UNALLOCATED 8.17.26.0/24 3356 LEVEL3, US 46639 UNALLOCATED 8.17.66.0/24 701 UUNET, US 53775 UNALLOCATED 8.20.88.0/24 7029 WINDSTREAM, US 393266 UNALLOCATED 8.23.52.0/24 46887 CROWNCASTLE-AS46887, US 396894 UNALLOCATED 8.28.201.0/24 46887 CROWNCASTLE-AS46887, US 394936 UNALLOCATED 8.33.224.0/24 22442 HOU-PHONOSCOPE, US 54338 UNALLOCATED 8.33.241.0/24 3356 LEVEL3, US 46639 UNALLOCATED 8.38.73.0/24 3356 LEVEL3, US Complete listing at https://thyme.apnic.net/current/data-badAS Prefixes from the Special Purpose Address Registry (Global) ----------------------------------------------------------- Prefix Origin AS Description 192.88.99.0/24 6939 HURRICANE, US Complete listing at https://thyme.apnic.net/current/data-spar Advertised Unallocated Addresses -------------------------------- Unassigned Network ASN Information AS Name 14.192.20.0/22 Origin: 26658 HENGTONG-IDC-LLC, US 14.192.20.0/22 Transit: 6939 HURRICANE, US 23.137.192.0/24 Origin: 31798 DATACITY, CA 23.137.192.0/24 Transit: 21949 BEANFIELD, CA 23.140.216.0/24 Origin: 27176 DATAWAGON, US 23.140.216.0/24 Transit: 20278 NEXEON, US 23.141.0.0/24 Origin: 395350 RESERVED, ZZ 23.141.0.0/24 Transit: 11426 TWC-11426-CAROLINAS, US 23.152.48.0/24 Origin: 46167 RESERVED, ZZ 23.152.48.0/24 Transit: 7018 ATT-INTERNET4, US Complete listing at https://thyme.apnic.net/current/data-add-IANA Number of prefixes announced per prefix length (Global) ------------------------------------------------------- /1:0 /2:0 /3:0 /4:0 /5:0 /6:0 /7:0 /8:16 /9:16 /10:37 /11:92 /12:295 /13:575 /14:1167 /15:2070 /16:13236 /17:8267 /18:13752 /19:24653 /20:44583 /21:52038 /22:111939 /23:100376 /24:585962 /25:716 /26:0 /27:0 /28:0 /29:0 /30:0 /31:0 /32:0 Advertised prefixes smaller than registry allocations ----------------------------------------------------- ASN No of nets Total ann. Description 12479 6692 7637 UNI2-AS, ES 8151 5861 11692 UNINET, MX 11492 3553 4642 CABLEONE, US 6327 3397 3602 SHAW, CA 39891 3356 4466 ALJAWWALSTC-AS, SA 7155 3113 4169 VIASAT-SP-BACKBONE, US 22773 2558 3423 ASN-CXA-ALL-CCI-22773-RDC, US 10620 2172 3543 Telmex Colombia S.A., CO 30036 2163 2501 MEDIACOM-ENTERPRISE-BUSINESS, US 16509 2162 10716 AMAZON-02, US Complete listing at https://thyme.apnic.net/current/data-sXXas-nos Number of /24s announced per /8 block (Global) ---------------------------------------------- 1:2309 2:1523 3:470 4:7 5:4482 6:161 7:6 8:1514 9:1 11:172 12:1428 13:375 14:2409 15:328 16:259 17:361 18:884 20:408 21:4 22:188 23:6858 24:2679 25:2 27:2573 29:19 31:2727 32:47 34:66 35:139 36:2370 37:4498 38:8535 39:916 40:150 41:4116 42:1983 43:2450 44:332 45:17538 46:4609 47:298 49:1997 50:1877 51:574 52:1581 54:316 55:957 56:8 57:216 58:2249 59:1267 60:1065 61:2731 62:2777 63:1850 64:5436 65:2277 66:4666 67:3028 68:1342 69:4004 70:1144 71:566 72:2856 74:2669 75:1568 76:622 77:2536 78:1857 79:1568 80:2209 81:2022 82:1687 83:1373 84:1763 85:3167 86:995 87:2331 88:1251 89:4311 90:681 91:8229 92:2491 93:2763 94:3777 95:4278 96:1274 97:316 98:1067 99:737 100:73 101:1166 102:3376 103:32302 104:4377 105:705 106:993 107:2383 108:1168 109:3950 110:2134 111:3296 112:2059 113:1820 114:1896 115:2094 116:1987 117:2676 118:2871 119:1981 120:1833 121:1416 122:2712 123:2163 124:1636 125:2854 126:64 128:1405 129:943 130:1222 131:1858 132:826 133:428 134:1513 135:310 136:1199 137:1103 138:2849 139:1519 140:1448 141:1448 142:1742 143:1616 144:1027 145:366 146:2093 147:2039 148:2542 149:2806 150:1068 151:1368 152:2104 153:502 154:6536 155:1437 156:2451 157:1807 158:1191 159:2451 160:3069 161:1707 162:3558 163:1761 164:1693 165:2143 166:1314 167:1853 168:4064 169:805 170:4945 171:1049 172:3910 173:3096 174:904 175:1233 176:3460 177:4795 178:3599 179:2182 180:2457 181:3897 182:3321 183:2040 184:2253 185:21055 186:5023 187:4270 188:4120 189:4141 190:9616 191:1495 192:11073 193:9244 194:7544 195:5402 196:3230 197:2997 198:6051 199:8109 200:8200 201:6358 202:10526 203:10370 204:4611 205:3696 206:4528 207:3645 208:4190 209:5133 210:4777 211:2664 212:4437 213:3671 214:1060 215:63 216:6703 217:2947 218:1413 219:556 220:2034 221:1047 222:874 223:2259 End of report

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Survey on barriers for RPKI adoption
by Sofia Silva Berenguer 08 Sep '24

08 Sep '24

(Apologies for duplicates) Hello everyone, As part of the NRO RPKI Program<https://www.nro.net/technical-coordination/security/certification/#rpki_pro…> we would like to know more about the community’s expectations with regard to consistency in RPKI implementations across the Regional Internet Registries (RIRs). Our end goal is to define what a single, global RPKI system would look like. We want to know more about the experience of managing resources through multiple RIRs in order to understand whether the differences in the RIRs' RPKI implementations are hindering RPKI adoption, more specifically Route Origin Authorization (ROA) creation, and if so, which differences are the most painful. This will allow us to focus on making those aspects of the RPKI system more consistent. Are you a network operator with permissions to create ROAs for IP space allocated by multiple RIRs? If so, we would greatly appreciate your participation in our survey before September 12: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/CHLHLML We want to hear from those who have already created ROAs as well as those who may be considering creating ROAs but have not yet done so. If this is not you, please consider forwarding this email to anyone else you know who could participate in the survey. Note that survey participants can enter a drawing for the equivalent to USD 35 e-gift voucher (If e-gift vouchers cannot be used in the winner's economy, an alternative gift will be provided). We really appreciate your participation! Warm regards, Sofía -- I am sending this email at a time that suits me and the time zone I work in. Please feel free to read, and act on or respond, at a time that suits you. ____________________________________________________________________ Sofía Silva Berenguer RPKI Program Manager, NRO / Process and Productivity Engineer, APNIC e: sofia(a)apnic.net<mailto:sofia@apnic.net> ____________________________________________________________________

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Weekly Global IPv4 Routing Table Report
by Routing Table Analysis Role Account 06 Sep '24

06 Sep '24

This is an automated weekly mailing describing the state of the Global IPv4 Routing Table as seen from APNIC's router in Japan. The posting is sent to APOPS, NANOG, AfNOG, SANOG, PacNOG, SAFNOG UKNOF, TZNOG, MENOG, BJNOG, SDNOG, CMNOG, LACNOG and the RIPE Routing WG. Daily listings are sent to bgp-stats(a)lists.apnic.net. For historical data, please see https://thyme.apnic.net. If you have any comments please contact Philip Smith <pfsinoz(a)gmail.com>. IPv4 Routing Table Report 04:00 +10GMT Sat 07 Sep, 2024 IPv4 BGP Table (Global) as seen at Japan. Report Website: https://thyme.apnic.net Detailed Analysis: https://thyme.apnic.net/current/ Analysis Summary ---------------- BGP routing table entries examined: 959068 Prefixes after maximum aggregation (per Origin AS): 365188 Deaggregation factor: 2.63 Unique aggregates announced (without unneeded subnets): 464489 Number of IPv4 prefixes with a valid ROA: 496539 Number of IPv4 prefixes with an invalid ROA: 1541 Number of IPv4 prefixes with no ROA: 460988 Total ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 76172 Prefixes per ASN: 12.59 Origin-only ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 65237 Origin ASes announcing only one prefix: 26805 Transit ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 10935 Transit-only ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 530 Average AS path length visible in the Internet Routing Table: 5.3 Max AS path length visible: 71 Max AS path prepend of ASN ( 37447) 66 Prefixes from unregistered ASNs in the Routing Table: 1007 Number of instances of unregistered ASNs: 1017 Number of 32-bit ASNs allocated by the RIRs: 45322 Number of 32-bit ASNs visible in the Routing Table: 37037 Prefixes from 32-bit ASNs in the Routing Table: 192312 Number of bogon 32-bit ASNs visible in the Routing Table: 53 Special use prefixes present in the Routing Table: 1 Prefixes being announced from unallocated address space: 587 Number of addresses announced to Internet: 3035576064 Equivalent to 180 /8s, 239 /16s and 55 /24s Percentage of available address space announced: 82.0 Percentage of allocated address space announced: 82.0 Percentage of available address space allocated: 100.0 Percentage of address space in use by end-sites: 99.6 Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations: 314029 APNIC Region Analysis Summary ----------------------------- Prefixes being announced by APNIC Region ASes: 257505 Total APNIC prefixes after maximum aggregation: 75632 APNIC Deaggregation factor: 3.40 Prefixes being announced from the APNIC address blocks: 249205 Unique aggregates announced from the APNIC address blocks: 100757 APNIC Region origin ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 14352 APNIC Prefixes per ASN: 17.36 APNIC Region origin ASes announcing only one prefix: 4373 APNIC Region transit ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 1914 Average APNIC Region AS path length visible: 5.5 Max APNIC Region AS path length visible: 39 Number of APNIC region 32-bit ASNs visible in the Routing Table: 9763 Number of APNIC addresses announced to Internet: 761919360 Equivalent to 45 /8s, 105 /16s and 247 /24s APNIC AS Blocks 4608-4864, 7467-7722, 9216-10239, 17408-18431 (pre-ERX allocations) 23552-24575, 37888-38911, 45056-46079, 55296-56319, 58368-59391, 63488-64098, 64297-64395, 131072-153913 APNIC Address Blocks 1/8, 14/8, 27/8, 36/8, 39/8, 42/8, 43/8, 49/8, 58/8, 59/8, 60/8, 61/8, 101/8, 103/8, 106/8, 110/8, 111/8, 112/8, 113/8, 114/8, 115/8, 116/8, 117/8, 118/8, 119/8, 120/8, 121/8, 122/8, 123/8, 124/8, 125/8, 126/8, 133/8, 150/8, 153/8, 163/8, 171/8, 175/8, 180/8, 182/8, 183/8, 202/8, 203/8, 210/8, 211/8, 218/8, 219/8, 220/8, 221/8, 222/8, 223/8, ARIN Region Analysis Summary ---------------------------- Prefixes being announced by ARIN Region ASes: 279443 Total ARIN prefixes after maximum aggregation: 126059 ARIN Deaggregation factor: 2.22 Prefixes being announced from the ARIN address blocks: 283474 Unique aggregates announced from the ARIN address blocks: 135015 ARIN Region origin ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 19155 ARIN Prefixes per ASN: 14.80 ARIN Region origin ASes announcing only one prefix: 6954 ARIN Region transit ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 2002 Average ARIN Region AS path length visible: 4.6 Max ARIN Region AS path length visible: 28 Number of ARIN region 32-bit ASNs visible in the Routing Table: 4987 Number of ARIN addresses announced to Internet: 1266942720 Equivalent to 75 /8s, 132 /16s and 3 /24s ARIN AS Blocks 1-1876, 1902-2042, 2044-2046, 2048-2106 (pre-ERX allocations) 2138-2584, 2615-2772, 2823-2829, 2880-3153 3354-4607, 4865-5119, 5632-6655, 6912-7466 7723-8191, 10240-12287, 13312-15359, 16384-17407 18432-20479, 21504-23551, 25600-26591, 26624-27647, 29696-30719, 31744-33791 35840-36863, 39936-40959, 46080-47103 53248-55295, 62464-63487, 64198-64296, 393216-402332 ARIN Address Blocks 3/8, 4/8, 6/8, 7/8, 8/8, 9/8, 11/8, 12/8, 13/8, 15/8, 16/8, 17/8, 18/8, 19/8, 20/8, 21/8, 22/8, 23/8, 24/8, 26/8, 28/8, 29/8, 30/8, 32/8, 33/8, 34/8, 35/8, 38/8, 40/8, 44/8, 47/8, 48/8, 50/8, 52/8, 53/8, 54/8, 55/8, 56/8, 57/8, 63/8, 64/8, 65/8, 66/8, 67/8, 68/8, 69/8, 70/8, 71/8, 72/8, 73/8, 74/8, 75/8, 76/8, 96/8, 97/8, 98/8, 99/8, 100/8, 104/8, 107/8, 108/8, 128/8, 129/8, 130/8, 131/8, 132/8, 134/8, 135/8, 136/8, 137/8, 138/8, 139/8, 140/8, 142/8, 143/8, 144/8, 146/8, 147/8, 148/8, 149/8, 152/8, 155/8, 156/8, 157/8, 158/8, 159/8, 160/8, 161/8, 162/8, 164/8, 165/8, 166/8, 167/8, 168/8, 169/8, 170/8, 172/8, 173/8, 174/8, 184/8, 192/8, 198/8, 199/8, 204/8, 205/8, 206/8, 207/8, 208/8, 209/8, 214/8, 215/8, 216/8, RIPE Region Analysis Summary ---------------------------- Prefixes being announced by RIPE Region ASes: 266674 Total RIPE prefixes after maximum aggregation: 128424 RIPE Deaggregation factor: 2.08 Prefixes being announced from the RIPE address blocks: 262858 Unique aggregates announced from the RIPE address blocks: 166485 RIPE Region origin ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 28716 RIPE Prefixes per ASN: 9.15 RIPE Region origin ASes announcing only one prefix: 12110 RIPE Region transit ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 3982 Average RIPE Region AS path length visible: 5.5 Max RIPE Region AS path length visible: 43 Number of RIPE region 32-bit ASNs visible in the Routing Table: 11989 Number of RIPE addresses announced to Internet: 723798144 Equivalent to 43 /8s, 36 /16s and 72 /24s RIPE AS Blocks 1877-1901, 2043, 2047, 2107-2136, 2585-2614 (pre-ERX allocations) 2773-2822, 2830-2879, 3154-3353, 5377-5631 6656-6911, 8192-9215, 12288-13311, 15360-16383 20480-21503, 24576-25599, 28672-29695 30720-31743, 33792-35839, 38912-39935 40960-45055, 47104-52223, 56320-58367 59392-61439, 61952-62463, 64396-64495 196608-216475 RIPE Address Blocks 2/8, 5/8, 25/8, 31/8, 37/8, 46/8, 51/8, 62/8, 77/8, 78/8, 79/8, 80/8, 81/8, 82/8, 83/8, 84/8, 85/8, 86/8, 87/8, 88/8, 89/8, 90/8, 91/8, 92/8, 93/8, 94/8, 95/8, 109/8, 141/8, 145/8, 151/8, 176/8, 178/8, 185/8, 188/8, 193/8, 194/8, 195/8, 212/8, 213/8, 217/8, LACNIC Region Analysis Summary ------------------------------ Prefixes being announced by LACNIC Region ASes: 122531 Total LACNIC prefixes after maximum aggregation: 28009 LACNIC Deaggregation factor: 4.37 Prefixes being announced from the LACNIC address blocks: 120374 Unique aggregates announced from the LACNIC address blocks: 47465 LACNIC Region origin ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 11158 LACNIC Prefixes per ASN: 10.79 LACNIC Region origin ASes announcing only one prefix: 2684 LACNIC Region transit ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 2466 Average LACNIC Region AS path length visible: 5.9 Max LACNIC Region AS path length visible: 61 Number of LACNIC region 32-bit ASNs visible in the Routing Table: 9061 Number of LACNIC addresses announced to Internet: 178261760 Equivalent to 10 /8s, 160 /16s and 15 /24s LACNIC AS Blocks 26592-26623, 27648-28671, 52224-53247, 61440-61951, 64099-64197, 262144-274844 + ERX transfers LACNIC Address Blocks 177/8, 179/8, 181/8, 186/8, 187/8, 189/8, 190/8, 191/8, 200/8, 201/8, AfriNIC Region Analysis Summary ------------------------------- Prefixes being announced by AfriNIC Region ASes: 31908 Total AfriNIC prefixes after maximum aggregation: 6418 AfriNIC Deaggregation factor: 4.97 Prefixes being announced from the AfriNIC address blocks: 42570 Unique aggregates announced from the AfriNIC address blocks: 14274 AfriNIC Region origin ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 1876 AfriNIC Prefixes per ASN: 22.69 AfriNIC Region origin ASes announcing only one prefix: 684 AfriNIC Region transit ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 363 Average AfriNIC Region AS path length visible: 6.0 Max AfriNIC Region AS path length visible: 71 Number of AfriNIC region 32-bit ASNs visible in the Routing Table: 1237 Number of AfriNIC addresses announced to Internet: 104337920 Equivalent to 6 /8s, 56 /16s and 18 /24s AfriNIC AS Blocks 36864-37887, 327680-329727 & ERX transfers AfriNIC Address Blocks 41/8, 45/8, 102/8, 105/8, 154/8, 196/8, 197/8, APNIC Region per AS prefix count summary ---------------------------------------- ASN No of nets /20 equiv MaxAgg Description 9808 9903 8747 80 CHINAMOBILE-CN China Mobile Communication 7545 5707 837 659 TPG-INTERNET-AP TPG Telecom Limited, AU 4538 4942 4192 74 ERX-CERNET-BKB China Education and Resear 18403 4262 347 23 FPT-AS-AP FPT Telecom Company, VN 7552 3937 1330 20 VIETEL-AS-AP Viettel Group, VN 9498 3789 508 261 BBIL-AP BHARTI Airtel Ltd., IN 7713 3643 1044 66 TELKOMNET-AS-AP PT Telekomunikasi Indones 45899 3258 1841 104 VNPT-AS-VN VNPT Corp, VN 24560 2797 831 481 AIRTELBROADBAND-AS-AP Bharti Airtel Ltd., 4766 2269 11520 576 KIXS-AS-KR Korea Telecom, KR Complete listing at https://thyme.apnic.net/current/data-ASnet-APNIC ARIN Region per AS prefix count summary --------------------------------------- ASN No of nets /20 equiv MaxAgg Description 16509 10665 11801 3762 AMAZON-02, US 11492 4639 308 547 CABLEONE, US 7155 4169 287 89 VIASAT-SP-BACKBONE, US 174 3903 8779 902 COGENT-174, US 6327 3602 1320 79 SHAW, CA 22773 3421 3035 187 ASN-CXA-ALL-CCI-22773-RDC, US 749 3242 54889 2494 DNIC-AS-00749, US 7018 3013 23680 1896 ATT-INTERNET4, US 16625 2854 1266 2129 AKAMAI-AS, US 396982 2802 3568 428 GOOGLE-CLOUD-PLATFORM, US Complete listing at https://thyme.apnic.net/current/data-ASnet-ARIN RIPE Region per AS prefix count summary --------------------------------------- ASN No of nets /20 equiv MaxAgg Description 12479 7662 1708 145 UNI2-AS, ES 39891 4466 269 55 ALJAWWALSTC-AS, SA 20940 3830 3395 130 AKAMAI-ASN1, NL 9009 3666 312 1857 M247, RO 12389 2936 2299 883 ROSTELECOM-AS, RU 34984 2333 359 584 TELLCOM-AS, TR 212238 1796 128 1323 CDNEXT, GB 8551 1777 368 35 BEZEQ-INTERNATIONAL-AS Bezeqint Internet 13188 1607 100 26 TRIOLAN, UA 8452 1580 1852 14 TE-AS TE-AS, EG Complete listing at https://thyme.apnic.net/current/data-ASnet-RIPE LACNIC Region per AS prefix count summary ----------------------------------------- ASN No of nets /20 equiv MaxAgg Description 8151 11733 3271 511 UNINET, MX 10620 3541 494 934 Telmex Colombia S.A., CO 13999 2547 629 22 Mega Cable, S.A. de C.V., MX 11830 2009 369 64 Instituto Costarricense de Electricidad y 28573 1337 2310 261 Claro NXT Telecomunicacoes Ltda, BR 3816 1316 774 204 COLOMBIA TELECOMUNICACIONES S.A. ESP, CO 11664 1229 278 33 Techtel LMDS Comunicaciones Interactivas 6503 1148 374 163 Axtel, S.A.B. de C.V., MX 6147 1105 369 22 Telefonica del Peru S.A.A., PE 22884 1067 98 371 TOTAL PLAY TELECOMUNICACIONES SA DE CV, M Complete listing at https://thyme.apnic.net/current/data-ASnet-LACNIC AfriNIC Region per AS prefix count summary ------------------------------------------ ASN No of nets /20 equiv MaxAgg Description 24835 1622 593 29 RAYA-AS, EG 24863 1609 389 16 LINKdotNET-AS, EG 36992 1411 1519 282 ETISALAT-MISR, EG 29571 1334 84 68 ORANGE-COTE-IVOIRE, CI 36903 1249 554 96 MT-MPLS, MA 36935 932 521 42 Vodafone-, EG 6713 557 1861 35 IAM-AS, MA 36914 541 82 3 KENET-AS, KE 15399 511 57 58 WANANCHI-, KE 37342 425 32 1 MOVITEL, MZ Complete listing at https://thyme.apnic.net/current/data-ASnet-AFRINIC Global Per AS prefix count summary ---------------------------------- ASN No of nets /20 equiv MaxAgg Description 8151 11733 3271 511 UNINET, MX 16509 10665 11801 3762 AMAZON-02, US 9808 9903 8747 80 CHINAMOBILE-CN China Mobile Communication 12479 7662 1708 145 UNI2-AS, ES 7545 5707 837 659 TPG-INTERNET-AP TPG Telecom Limited, AU 4538 4942 4192 74 ERX-CERNET-BKB China Education and Resear 11492 4639 308 547 CABLEONE, US 39891 4466 269 55 ALJAWWALSTC-AS, SA 18403 4262 347 23 FPT-AS-AP FPT Telecom Company, VN 7155 4169 287 89 VIASAT-SP-BACKBONE, US Complete listing at https://thyme.apnic.net/current/data-ASnet Global Per AS Maximum Aggregation summary ----------------------------------------- ASN No of nets Net Savings Description 9808 9903 9823 CHINAMOBILE-CN China Mobile Communications Grou 12479 7662 7517 UNI2-AS, ES 16509 10665 6903 AMAZON-02, US 7545 5707 5048 TPG-INTERNET-AP TPG Telecom Limited, AU 4538 4942 4868 ERX-CERNET-BKB China Education and Research Net 39891 4466 4411 ALJAWWALSTC-AS, SA 18403 4262 4239 FPT-AS-AP FPT Telecom Company, VN 11492 4639 4092 CABLEONE, US 7155 4169 4080 VIASAT-SP-BACKBONE, US 7552 3937 3917 VIETEL-AS-AP Viettel Group, VN Complete listing at https://thyme.apnic.net/current/data-CIDRnet List of Unregistered Origin ASNs (Global) ----------------------------------------- Bad AS Designation Net Originated Transit AS Transit AS Name 33123 UNALLOCATED 8.10.69.0/24 174 COGENT-174, US 12169 UNALLOCATED 8.15.207.0/24 32787 PROLEXIC-TECHNOLOGIES-D 40493 UNALLOCATED 8.17.26.0/24 3356 LEVEL3, US 46639 UNALLOCATED 8.17.66.0/24 701 UUNET, US 53775 UNALLOCATED 8.20.88.0/24 7029 WINDSTREAM, US 393266 UNALLOCATED 8.23.52.0/24 46887 CROWNCASTLE-AS46887, US 396894 UNALLOCATED 8.28.201.0/24 46887 CROWNCASTLE-AS46887, US 394936 UNALLOCATED 8.33.224.0/24 22442 HOU-PHONOSCOPE, US 54338 UNALLOCATED 8.33.241.0/24 3356 LEVEL3, US 46639 UNALLOCATED 8.38.73.0/24 3356 LEVEL3, US Complete listing at https://thyme.apnic.net/current/data-badAS Prefixes from the Special Purpose Address Registry (Global) ----------------------------------------------------------- Prefix Origin AS Description 192.88.99.0/24 6939 HURRICANE, US Complete listing at https://thyme.apnic.net/current/data-spar Advertised Unallocated Addresses -------------------------------- Unassigned Network ASN Information AS Name 14.192.20.0/22 Origin: 26658 HENGTONG-IDC-LLC, US 14.192.20.0/22 Transit: 6939 HURRICANE, US 23.137.192.0/24 Origin: 31798 DATACITY, CA 23.137.192.0/24 Transit: 21949 BEANFIELD, CA 23.140.216.0/24 Origin: 27176 DATAWAGON, US 23.140.216.0/24 Transit: 20278 NEXEON, US 23.141.0.0/24 Origin: 395350 RESERVED, ZZ 23.141.0.0/24 Transit: 11426 TWC-11426-CAROLINAS, US 23.152.48.0/24 Origin: 46167 RESERVED, ZZ 23.152.48.0/24 Transit: 7018 ATT-INTERNET4, US Complete listing at https://thyme.apnic.net/current/data-add-IANA Number of prefixes announced per prefix length (Global) ------------------------------------------------------- /1:0 /2:0 /3:0 /4:0 /5:0 /6:0 /7:0 /8:16 /9:16 /10:37 /11:93 /12:295 /13:580 /14:1168 /15:2070 /16:13244 /17:8260 /18:13788 /19:24716 /20:44402 /21:52010 /22:111928 /23:100324 /24:585403 /25:718 /26:0 /27:0 /28:0 /29:0 /30:0 /31:0 /32:0 Advertised prefixes smaller than registry allocations ----------------------------------------------------- ASN No of nets Total ann. Description 12479 6718 7662 UNI2-AS, ES 8151 5867 11733 UNINET, MX 11492 3550 4639 CABLEONE, US 6327 3397 3602 SHAW, CA 39891 3356 4466 ALJAWWALSTC-AS, SA 7155 3113 4169 VIASAT-SP-BACKBONE, US 22773 2555 3421 ASN-CXA-ALL-CCI-22773-RDC, US 10620 2170 3541 Telmex Colombia S.A., CO 30036 2162 2500 MEDIACOM-ENTERPRISE-BUSINESS, US 16509 2145 10665 AMAZON-02, US Complete listing at https://thyme.apnic.net/current/data-sXXas-nos Number of /24s announced per /8 block (Global) ---------------------------------------------- 1:2313 2:1522 3:454 4:6 5:4459 6:161 7:6 8:1517 9:1 11:172 12:1429 13:366 14:2412 15:327 16:259 17:362 18:879 20:408 21:4 22:188 23:6826 24:2680 25:2 27:2556 29:19 31:2695 32:47 34:66 35:139 36:2364 37:4521 38:8492 39:920 40:147 41:4067 42:1984 43:2444 44:332 45:17561 46:4649 47:298 49:1996 50:1864 51:574 52:1578 54:318 55:960 56:8 57:214 58:2252 59:1267 60:1063 61:2724 62:2788 63:1850 64:5464 65:2279 66:4653 67:3035 68:1338 69:4027 70:1146 71:563 72:2858 74:2676 75:1568 76:620 77:2532 78:1852 79:1809 80:2212 81:2002 82:1689 83:1372 84:1748 85:3173 86:981 87:2319 88:1253 89:4268 90:682 91:8220 92:2452 93:2729 94:3752 95:4273 96:1274 97:316 98:1062 99:737 100:73 101:1167 102:3379 103:32264 104:4371 105:700 106:992 107:2375 108:1169 109:4072 110:2136 111:3291 112:2059 113:1814 114:1893 115:2091 116:1983 117:2678 118:2869 119:1990 120:1826 121:1417 122:2706 123:2161 124:1635 125:2858 126:64 128:1405 129:944 130:1217 131:1845 132:822 133:428 134:1509 135:310 136:1205 137:1107 138:2839 139:1535 140:1451 141:1444 142:1730 143:1620 144:1032 145:365 146:2086 147:2034 148:2542 149:2822 150:1068 151:1358 152:2100 153:500 154:6449 155:1437 156:2459 157:1793 158:1185 159:2445 160:3044 161:1707 162:3557 163:1756 164:1685 165:2144 166:1306 167:1848 168:4043 169:801 170:4943 171:1053 172:3891 173:3084 174:903 175:1226 176:3446 177:4736 178:3599 179:2194 180:2457 181:3908 182:3323 183:2015 184:2253 185:21040 186:5014 187:4299 188:4089 189:4171 190:9616 191:1522 192:11067 193:9233 194:7504 195:5367 196:3169 197:2989 198:6048 199:8106 200:8123 201:6364 202:10512 203:10393 204:4600 205:3701 206:4547 207:3647 208:4185 209:5119 210:4785 211:2662 212:4419 213:3655 214:1059 215:49 216:6731 217:2944 218:1419 219:556 220:2035 221:1048 222:871 223:2260 End of report

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Survey on the configuration of BGP routers
by Thomas Wirtgen 02 Sep '24

02 Sep '24

Dear RIPE Routing WG community, Apologies if you received multiple copies of this email. As part of my research into improving the configuration of BGP routers, I have created a survey for network operators. It will help to understand the processes you use to configure BGP and the challenges you face when configuring BGP sessions. Your expertise and experience will help us to develop new frameworks for configuring BGP sessions. I would be grateful if you could take a few minutes to complete the survey. Your participation will help develop solutions for network operators. https://forms.gle/hUwGJBaE9g72LQbQ6 I will announce the results of the survey on the mailing list where it was posted. Thank you for your time and your input, Thomas Wirtgen

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