Fwd: RIS things, was Re: [np] Conf report: Peering Forum
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 14:38:49 +0200 To: Arife Vural <arife@ripe.net> From: Henk Uijterwaal <henk@ripe.net> Subject: RIS things, was Re: [np] Conf report: Peering Forum Cc: ris
Hi Arife,
(Distribution list reduced)
Thanks, interesting. In case you ever want to do a ris-overview talk, I do have a presentation on the shelf. (And I also have generic NCC services talk). Something else:
2 RIS related things I heard at the IETF:
1. Geoff Huston complained that it was hard to download the full data sets. Simon Leinen suggested in the IEPG to put the data on bittorrent and even offered 2 machines with diskspace as servers. I promised to take this up here.
2. Geoff showed all kinds of activity plots. Some of them are related to the hotspots and BGP update plots that we have. I tried to find them in the meeting but failed. Slightly related: a few weeks ago, Rene reported that some of the standard plots had not been updated since December. That means that nobody looked at them for two months. Which means that they are probably not too useful and we should consider using the CPU cycles for something else.
Perhaps we should review the standard set of RIS plots that we produce, remove what is never used, add new plots and make it a bit easier to find.
And at APNIC:
3. Milton (RRC15 host) asked about installing 7 or so RRC's in the LACNIC region. His idea was to have RRC's at all IX's there, so people could really debug problems in the LACNIC area.
This is probably a good idea FOR THEM, I just wonder if we should be operating this. If it is LACNIC specific, then it might be better to tell then HOW the RIS works and have them copy the system. They can then operate it themselves.
I also promised to bring this up internally.
Perhaps we can meet and discuss all this sometime soon?
Henk
At 21:16 27/03/2006, Arife Vural wrote:
Conference report:
Conference: Peering Forum Date: 18.03.2006 - 23.03.2006 Venue: Miami, US URL: http://www.peeringforum.com Attendee(s): Arife Vural Department(s): SED
* Scope of conference:
Everything that's related with Peering
* Reason for attendance:
Related with my job
* Summary (main aspects & outcome of the conference, personal evaluation thereof, impressions, interesting floor talks etc.):
o Met a lot of people peering people.
o Had chat with De-CIX guys. They offered us to have a RIS presentation in one of their technical meetings. One is in April and the other one is in October. Bernhard Krönung is the contact person to discuss the detail more He wil be attending RIPE52.
Bernhard also mentioned about OpneBGPD software. They are planing to use on their route server. He said it's more stable than Quagga. It does not crash so often. It has a mode to configure as route server. That mode allows BGP speaker to announce all routes it gets from the peers rather than only the best ones.
It might worth to spend some cycles on it to find out pros & cons.
o I got some free transit donation for K-anycast server. Thanks Josh Snowhorn, Terramark for his help. Some of them already contacted with OPS. With some I will contact during the week. Some of those guys are also willing to peer with RIS.
TeleGlobe, Delhi is offered free transit. I think it would be nice to have with eBGP on RRC00. We do not have any peers in that part of the world.
o prolexic.com
Those guys are protecting companies from DDos attacks. They are doing quite a good job chasing the hackers. They work with FBI and other organization to track them down. It's a small company. When they find a site is under DDos attack, by using BGP and DNS, they directed to the routes on their servers and work on to stop the attack, while the original site is up and running. They have quite a few customers.
o QoS
There was a panel about QoS effort at IX points. Most of IXs do not do anything other than watching their bandwith usage statistics. Henk Steenman mentioned about TTM box they have at AMS-IX to measure the gitter. He said those graphs are publicly available. Data&Switch and TeleGlobe might consider go such a solution.
I have to contact with them about RIS peering, during that time I will send link about TTM.
o Next PeeringForum
If there will be Peering Forum next year, it would be worth to put a presentation about what RIPE NCC does and mention the projects like RIS, TTM and Routing Registry Courses and roughly what we do at the RIPE NCC.
Some people have no idea what we do. Some knows quite well and ask question like what RIPE NCC does with all the money they get. I think such 30 mins presentation would help to clear those questions.
o ENUM
It looks quite trendy when IXs mention they do support ENUM. I do not know exactly what kind of works involve from IXs, but it would be worth to coordinate the ENUM work (which Katie is doing) with those guys.
o IRR Power Toolset
This is a similar tool like IRR toolset. Richard Steenbergen gave a presentation about it. The reason he implemented this tool is the available one is not compiled any of OS(?).
He said quite positive things about the job RIPE NCC is doing maintaining the Routing Registry and hoped some point in US they will have such a well maintained DB.
Daved Reader (Zen) mentioned RIPE NCC is doing a good job giving Routing Registry courses that help people to understand why and how they maintain Routing Registry DB.
o IP TV panel
There were panelists from IX points to discuss the future of IP TV situations. With the available bandwith and architecture IXs are not ready to handle such a big traffic. Some English attendees brought about BBC and it's IP TV effort.
o BGPlay
It's the most popular RIS tool. I do not think it's new. I heard postive feedbacks about it again.
o RIS services
Some ideas and suggestions about RIS services:
- A suggestion came to add a telnet interface on RRC boxes - RIS does not give the view in US, we should find a way to improve it. - Configure a peering session from RouteView (not a bad idea) - Companies are looking for some criteria like ASpath length to adjust their filters at IX points. Especially, US ones since they do not have RR DB in ARIN area. I do not know how RIS can be useful in such effort.
AOB
o KIX (Korean Internet Exchange point) is biggest IX point, traffic vice. o AMS-IX is the biggest IX point, number of members, heading ahead LINX o LINX or LINX members are not so keen on PeeringForum, they did not sponsor it this year. There was not any LINX employee tt Peering Forum this year. o Jay Adelson (founder) left Equnix. He is a spokesman for Equnix for a while. He has his own compnay, digg.com. o There is a new content provider in the market like Akamai, Limelight. They are growing quite fast. They are happy to donate free transit to K-anycast. o AMS-IX and France Telecom are the only one who provides 10G ports. The other IXs are putting some effort to provide 10G ports, as well.
Regards, Arife Vural
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk.uijterwaal(at)ripe.net RIPE Network Coordination Centre http://www.amsterdamned.org/~henk P.O.Box 10096 Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 1001 EB Amsterdam 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 The Netherlands The Netherlands Mobile: +31.6.55861746 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1160438400. Watch this space...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk.uijterwaal(at)ripe.net RIPE Network Coordination Centre http://www.amsterdamned.org/~henk P.O.Box 10096 Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 1001 EB Amsterdam 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 The Netherlands The Netherlands Mobile: +31.6.55861746 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 1160438400. Watch this space...
On Fri, 31 Mar 2006, Henk Uijterwaal wrote:
2. Geoff showed all kinds of activity plots Some of them are related to the hotspots and BGP update plots that we have.
was that his presentation on growth of the routing system (prefixes, ASes _and_ update activity) in 2005? He also flashed that at PAM. Quite nice. RIS has a lot of information, but we aren't very good in pushing the info out,making network operators aware. MyASN 1.0 was a good start, but has gone into zombie state after the restructuring (less and less people in SED to do more and more work).
I tried to find
them in the meeting but failed. Slightly related: a few weeks ago, Rene reported that some of the standard plots had not been updated since December. That means that nobody looked at them for two months. Which means that they are probably not too useful and we should consider using the CPU cycles for something else.
Those were from the RISreport. Kind of like TTM, you only look at them when you feel something is wrong. I don't believe CPU is an issue.
Perhaps we should review the standard set of RIS plots that we produce, remove what is never used, add new plots and make it a bit easier to find.
the last part is most important. The whole RIS web site could do with restructuring to make it clearer what information is out there, where to find it. Marketing and Communications .... I learned at PAM that RIS data are much appreciated by the research community. Even U. of Oregon researchers acknowledge that for some analyses RIS has better data than routeviews. However, I have a feeling we are loosing touch with the NOC community, the RIPE NCC members. From Geoff's talk it's clear some folk don't have a clue what effects their poking with BGP traffic engineering has on the global routing system. Maybe the training department should expand the Routing course with a long section on "how to use the RIS"? Without continued education, RIS DB and related services will only be used by small subset of technically inclined, curious individuals. -- Rene
Rene,
RIS has a lot of information, but we aren't very good in pushing the info out,making network operators aware. MyASN 1.0 was a good start, but has gone into zombie state after the restructuring (less and less people in SED to do more and more work).
Actually, Trudy is about to contact the 500 or so myASN users to see what they like about it, what they don't and how it can be improved. This is part of the CMM effort (documenting all technical services, what they are and what people can expect), but it might help to improve the service in the future.
However, I have a feeling we are loosing touch with the NOC community, the RIPE NCC members. From Geoff's talk it's clear some folk don't have a clue what effects their poking with BGP traffic engineering has on the global routing system. Maybe the training department should expand the Routing course with a long section on "how to use the RIS"? Without continued education, RIS DB and related services will only be used by small subset of technically inclined, curious individuals.
I think that'd be useful. The tools are there and if you are clueful enough, you can check what you are doing. However, people don't use them, so they either don't know that they exist or how they work. I'll suggest this to Rumy. Henk ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk.uijterwaal(at)ripe.net RIPE Network Coordination Centre http://www.amsterdamned.org/~henk P.O.Box 10096 Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 1001 EB Amsterdam 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 The Netherlands The Netherlands Mobile: +31.6.55861746 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 1160438400. Watch this space...
Henk Uijterwaal wrote:
Rene,
RIS has a lot of information, but we aren't very good in pushing the info out,making network operators aware. MyASN 1.0 was a good start, but has gone into zombie state after the restructuring (less and less people in SED to do more and more work).
Actually, Trudy is about to contact the 500 or so myASN users to see what they like about it, what they don't and how it can be improved. This is part of the CMM effort (documenting all technical services, what they are and what people can expect), but it might help to improve the service in the future.
FYI: Before the survey will be send to the MyASn mailinglist, Arife will spend 3 weeks or so on fixing bugs. -- Trudy
However, I have a feeling we are loosing touch with the NOC community, the RIPE NCC members. From Geoff's talk it's clear some folk don't have a clue what effects their poking with BGP traffic engineering has on the global routing system. Maybe the training department should expand the Routing course with a long section on "how to use the RIS"? Without continued education, RIS DB and related services will only be used by small subset of technically inclined, curious individuals.
I think that'd be useful. The tools are there and if you are clueful enough, you can check what you are doing. However, people don't use them, so they either don't know that they exist or how they work.
I'll suggest this to Rumy.
Henk
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk.uijterwaal(at)ripe.net RIPE Network Coordination Centre http://www.amsterdamned.org/~henk P.O.Box 10096 Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 1001 EB Amsterdam 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 The Netherlands The Netherlands Mobile: +31.6.55861746 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1160438400. Watch this space...
-- Trudy
participants (3)
-
Henk Uijterwaal -
Rene Wilhelm -
Trudy Prins