Fw: NCC#2005030185 [Request for BGP Data]
Hello all, What do you think about this request? Cheers, Vasco ----- Begin forwarded message ----- Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 19:17:02 -0600 From: Dave Deitrich <deitrich@cymru.com> To: rispeering@ripe.net Subject: NCC#2005030185 Request for BGP Data Cc: bruce.campbell@ripe.net, Rob Thomas <robt@cymru.com> Message-Id: <9c251485ff037119c294a661ebc8f84c@cymru.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Greetings, My name is Dave Deitrich and I'm a member of Team Cymru (http://www.cymru.com). We were wondering if it would be possible to establish a BGP peering session with you in order to receive copies of some of the routing data that you use for the RIPE RIS project. The prefix data will be used to help enhance our Internet monitoring utilities. These utilities look for general aberrations such as routing instability, worm outbreaks, prefix hijackings, etc. so the more peering data we have the better. We recently posted a request for more peers to a security list and Bruce Campbell suggested that you might be able to help us. If so we would love to discuss this with you. Please let us know if you think that this would be feasible. Thanks very much for your attention. - -- DAVE DEITRICH deitrich@cymru.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 8.1 iQA/AwUBQiUEXkiQQdywQH32EQJnQQCg5Zhq+yGLvrkGpTfPcqA8G1h/vrQAoIY8 77nM12Obk8qE4o1+Dtj9jD1W =9cP9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ------ End forwarded message ------ --
On 16.03 12:33, RIPE NCC RIS wrote:
Hello all,
What do you think about this request?
This needs a chat between Henk and myself. They should get an answer immediately that we are considering it seriously. Daniel
At 16:19 16/03/2005, Daniel Karrenberg wrote:
On 16.03 12:33, RIPE NCC RIS wrote:
Hello all,
What do you think about this request?
This needs a chat between Henk and myself. They should get an answer immediately that we are considering it seriously.
I agree, please write back that we'll get back to them soon, Henk
Daniel
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk.uijterwaal(at)ripe.net RIPE Network Coordination Centre http://www.amsterdamned.org/~henk P.O.Box 10096 Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 1001 EB Amsterdam 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 The Netherlands The Netherlands Mobile: +31.6.55861746 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Look here junior, don't you be so happy. And for Heaven's sake, don't you be so sad. (Tom Verlaine)
Hi,
What do you think about this request?
In general, I think we should try to honor this request, cymru does useful work and it is a valid application of the data that we have. On the technical side, I wonder why they need a BGP feed. This will be multihop BGP over a large number of intermediate nodes, with all stability issues related to that. It would also involve peerings with all RRC's. OTOH, the raw data does have the same info, is already downloadable, and does not suffer from stability problems. I might miss something here. I do think that we should set them up. If we do, I think we should ask them to put appropriate credtis on their site. We should also ask them, when they present, to tell people to peer with us. And, obviously, we can give a link to them from our site. Henk
Cheers, Vasco
----- Begin forwarded message -----
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 19:17:02 -0600 From: Dave Deitrich <deitrich@cymru.com> To: rispeering@ripe.net Subject: NCC#2005030185 Request for BGP Data Cc: bruce.campbell@ripe.net, Rob Thomas <robt@cymru.com> Message-Id: <9c251485ff037119c294a661ebc8f84c@cymru.com>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
Greetings,
My name is Dave Deitrich and I'm a member of Team Cymru (http://www.cymru.com). We were wondering if it would be possible to establish a BGP peering session with you in order to receive copies of some of the routing data that you use for the RIPE RIS project. The prefix data will be used to help enhance our Internet monitoring utilities. These utilities look for general aberrations such as routing instability, worm outbreaks, prefix hijackings, etc. so the more peering data we have the better.
We recently posted a request for more peers to a security list and Bruce Campbell suggested that you might be able to help us. If so we would love to discuss this with you. Please let us know if you think that this would be feasible.
Thanks very much for your attention.
- -- DAVE DEITRICH deitrich@cymru.com
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 8.1
iQA/AwUBQiUEXkiQQdywQH32EQJnQQCg5Zhq+yGLvrkGpTfPcqA8G1h/vrQAoIY8 77nM12Obk8qE4o1+Dtj9jD1W =9cP9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ------ End forwarded message ------
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk.uijterwaal(at)ripe.net RIPE Network Coordination Centre http://www.amsterdamned.org/~henk P.O.Box 10096 Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 1001 EB Amsterdam 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 The Netherlands The Netherlands Mobile: +31.6.55861746 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Look here junior, don't you be so happy. And for Heaven's sake, don't you be so sad. (Tom Verlaine)
Henk Uijterwaal wrote:
What do you think about this request?
In general, I think we should try to honor this request, cymru does useful work and it is a valid application of the data that we have.
On the technical side, I wonder why they need a BGP feed. This will be multihop BGP over a large number of intermediate nodes, with all stability issues related to that. It would also involve peerings with all RRC's. OTOH, the raw data does have the same info, is already downloadable, and does not suffer from stability problems. I might miss something here.
I don't understand either. You can get nothing from a feed that you can't get from the BGP data, and actually, you get much less, because the RRCs themselves perform route selection. So, for every prefix, instead of getting one route per peer, you get one route per RRC. There is also the question of what they are going to do with the data. Do we have permission from our peers to pass their routes on to someone else? The RIS peerings were set up with the assurance that the data would be made public and used to create services for the community. Just a couple of thoughts. Cheers, Lorenzo -- --------------------------------------------------------- Lorenzo Colitti Ph.D student Computer Networks research group Roma Tre University colitti@dia.uniroma3.it +39-0655173215 ---------------------------------------------------------
At 22:23 16/03/2005, Lorenzo Colitti wrote:
There is also the question of what they are going to do with the data. Do we have permission from our peers to pass their routes on to someone else? The RIS peerings were set up with the assurance that the data would be made public and used to create services for the community.
Well, the agreement we have is that we would make the data publicly available. We never said that we'd limit ourselves to only MySQL queries to a database, only raw files or whatever. A BGP feed is, in this respect, still in scope. Henk
Just a couple of thoughts.
Cheers, Lorenzo
-- --------------------------------------------------------- Lorenzo Colitti Ph.D student Computer Networks research group Roma Tre University colitti@dia.uniroma3.it +39-0655173215 ---------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk.uijterwaal(at)ripe.net RIPE Network Coordination Centre http://www.amsterdamned.org/~henk P.O.Box 10096 Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 1001 EB Amsterdam 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 The Netherlands The Netherlands Mobile: +31.6.55861746 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Look here junior, don't you be so happy. And for Heaven's sake, don't you be so sad. (Tom Verlaine)
On the technical side, I wonder why they need a BGP feed. This will be
That's also one thing I wonder as well. I have the concerns Lorenzo pointed. We say our peers we just set up peering sessions to collect BGP data, and not to pass any other peers even if it's research purpose. Like last AS-set issue, if somebody says that they do not want to involve such a thing, that would put us into difficult situation. My feelings say that just tell them to no, and point them to use RIB snapshots. Arife
Arife, others,
On the technical side, I wonder why they need a BGP feed. This will be
That's also one thing I wonder as well.
I have the concerns Lorenzo pointed. We say our peers we just set up peering sessions to collect BGP data, and not to pass any other peers even if it's research purpose.
Like last AS-set issue, if somebody says that they do not want to involve such a thing, that would put us into difficult situation.
I think this is different. People peering with the RIS already agreed that we'd collect the data and make it available for research purposes. It comes essentially down to listening and write down what we hear. The AS-set thing was different. There we'd actively use AS# under somebody else's control for experiments.
My feelings say that just tell them to no, and point them to use RIB snapshots.
I'd rephrase this a bit: offer them the data, but ask why they need a BGP feed and cannot simply mirror the data that we already make available on our website. If there is a valid technical reason why they need a feed, I like to know and we should consider this. If they are just too lazy to read the RIBs, then it is a different matter. Henk ps. Arife: is this what you wanted to talk to me about yesterday, before the music made all further conversation impossible? Feel free to drop by if you want to discuss further by voice.
Arife
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk.uijterwaal(at)ripe.net RIPE Network Coordination Centre http://www.amsterdamned.org/~henk P.O.Box 10096 Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 1001 EB Amsterdam 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 The Netherlands The Netherlands Mobile: +31.6.55861746 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Look here junior, don't you be so happy. And for Heaven's sake, don't you be so sad. (Tom Verlaine)
On 18.03 10:30, Henk Uijterwaal wrote:
I'd rephrase this a bit: offer them the data, but ask why they need a BGP feed and cannot simply mirror the data that we already make available on our website. If there is a valid technical reason why they need a feed, I like to know and we should consider this. If they are just too lazy to read the RIBs, then it is a different matter.
Agree!
My feelings say that just tell them to no, and point them to use RIB snapshots.
I'd rephrase this a bit: offer them the data, but ask why they need a BGP feed and cannot simply mirror the data that we already make available on our website. If there is a valid technical reason why they need a feed, I like to know and we should consider this. If they are just too lazy to read the RIBs, then it is a different matter.
That makes sense. Vasco, can you get back to user with these questions? If you need any help, we can look at together.
ps. Arife: is this what you wanted to talk to me about yesterday, before the music made all further conversation impossible? Feel free to drop by if you want to discuss further by voice.
Yes. Your reply is quite clear. Thanks. Arife
participants (5)
-
Arife Vural -
Daniel Karrenberg -
Henk Uijterwaal -
Lorenzo Colitti -
RIPE NCC RIS