[ripe-list]Soldatov
https://cepa.org/article/russia-jails-the-father-of-russias-internet friend of rob and many others
As one of the people on the Finnish side of the RELCOM connection (it wasn't to a University, but to EUnet Finland that I was running at the time) I am really sorry and alarmed to hear what is happening to Alexey, but on the other hand, as it is Russia, there always seems to be at least two contradicting stories. I am sure Jaap Akkerhuis and Dmitry Burkov can provide additional information. Julf On 24/07/2024 03:44, Randy Bush wrote:
https://cepa.org/article/russia-jails-the-father-of-russias-internet
friend of rob and many others -----
Court sentence was not published yet - 01-0180/2024 - Приговор - Готовится к публикации But you can find it on court's official site as it will appear - https://mos-gorsud.ru/rs/savyolovskij/services/cases/criminal/details/653268... All info was published only in media without all details. Dima 7/24/24 1:31 PM, Johan Helsingius via ripe-list пишет:
As one of the people on the Finnish side of the RELCOM connection (it wasn't to a University, but to EUnet Finland that I was running at the time) I am really sorry and alarmed to hear what is happening to Alexey, but on the other hand, as it is Russia, there always seems to be at least two contradicting stories. I am sure Jaap Akkerhuis and Dmitry Burkov can provide additional information.
Julf
On 24/07/2024 03:44, Randy Bush wrote:
https://cepa.org/article/russia-jails-the-father-of-russias-internet
friend of rob and many others -----
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I have several good memories of him, both in Moscow and in Brussels, when he was deputy minister. I remember playing the I Know game with him. He said that he knew Vint. I said that I knew him too. Blah, blah. He said he knew Rob. I said that I knew him too. Blah, blah. I think we accepted it as a draw. I also remember a particular dinner in a private room of a restaurant overlooking the Kremlin and the entrance to Red Square. We were four on our side. Soldatov asked his guys to sit with their backs to the window so we could look out and see the first snow of winter falling. Nice. But my thoughts are now also with his son. Sent from my iPad
On 24 Jul 2024, at 03:44, Randy Bush <randy@psg.com> wrote:
https://cepa.org/article/russia-jails-the-father-of-russias-internet
friend of rob and many others ----- To unsubscribe from this mailing list or change your subscription options, please visit: https://mailman.ripe.net/mailman3/lists/ripe-list.ripe.net/ As we have migrated to Mailman 3, you will need to create an account with the email matching your subscription before you can change your settings. More details at: https://www.ripe.net/membership/mail/mailman-3-migration/
Am Mittwoch, 24. Juli 2024, 14:26:57 CEST schrieb Gordon Lennox:
I have several good memories of him, both in Moscow and in Brussels, when he was deputy minister.
cite from article:
https://cepa.org/article/russia-jails-the-father-of-russias-internet
"Very few in Russia believe in the government charges against a man widely known as a Father of the Russian Internet — and who is less well known as the father of Andrei Soldatov, one of this article’s authors." hmm, this claims are unfortunately subjective and not helpful / no journalism at all. Who are "very few" and who are the names of the other ppl cited. And "believing" is a personal thing... "Soldatov was accused of abuse of power when managing a pool of IP-addresses by an organization he had no position at. This legal absurdity was enough to see him imprisoned..." How the author came to the conculsion of a "legal absurdity"? Are there any details about the crime case available? To me this (at least) sounds like a corruption case (even if the translation "abuse of power" sounds bit weird to western terms, it could be a typical term for what we know more general as "corruption") and without any hard details, it is difficult to understand if these claims against his person are correct or without any base. But from my experiences in (not only) ex-sovjet countries, it would be not the first case of real / large scale corruption by "abusing" a - historically grown - "powerful position" in the countries IP scene in ex. sovjet and even other countries. Unfortunately, the arcticle is not bringing any light to the hints / base of the case. just my .02 € niels. -- --- Niels Dettenbach Syndicat IT & Internet https://www.syndicat.com PGP: https://syndicat.com/pub_key.asc ---
A quick Google reveals several articles about this case https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/07/24/russia-jails-scientist-ale... https://apnews.com/article/russia-crackdown-soldatov-1515f320ea6e332574f38d0... I am also saddened to hear of this unjust sentence. Leslie On Fri, Jul 26, 2024 at 5:56 AM Niels Dettenbach via ripe-list <ripe-list@ripe.net> wrote:
Am Mittwoch, 24. Juli 2024, 14:26:57 CEST schrieb Gordon Lennox:
I have several good memories of him, both in Moscow and in Brussels, when he was deputy minister.
cite from article:
https://cepa.org/article/russia-jails-the-father-of-russias-internet
"Very few in Russia believe in the government charges against a man widely known as a Father of the Russian Internet — and who is less well known as the father of Andrei Soldatov, one of this article’s authors."
hmm, this claims are unfortunately subjective and not helpful / no journalism at all. Who are "very few" and who are the names of the other ppl cited. And "believing" is a personal thing...
"Soldatov was accused of abuse of power when managing a pool of IP-addresses by an organization he had no position at. This legal absurdity was enough to see him imprisoned..."
How the author came to the conculsion of a "legal absurdity"?
Are there any details about the crime case available? To me this (at least) sounds like a corruption case (even if the translation "abuse of power" sounds bit weird to western terms, it could be a typical term for what we know more general as "corruption") and without any hard details, it is difficult to understand if these claims against his person are correct or without any base.
But from my experiences in (not only) ex-sovjet countries, it would be not the first case of real / large scale corruption by "abusing" a - historically grown - "powerful position" in the countries IP scene in ex. sovjet and even other countries.
Unfortunately, the arcticle is not bringing any light to the hints / base of the case.
just my .02 €
niels.
-- --- Niels Dettenbach Syndicat IT & Internet https://www.syndicat.com PGP: https://syndicat.com/pub_key.asc ---
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On 26 Jul 2024, at 18:02, Leslie <geekgirl@gmail.com> wrote:
A quick Google reveals several articles about this case https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/07/24/russia-jails-scientist-ale... https://apnews.com/article/russia-crackdown-soldatov-1515f320ea6e332574f38d0...
I am also saddened to hear of this unjust sentence.
While many court sentences in Russia are unjust, the case of transferring IP address blocks from not for profit government research entity to private Czech company co-owned by its director and then billing former clients (typically academia/non-profit variety) does look like a sound case for the government to pursue. I would like to hear Dmitry Burkov opinion. To me, this sounds like corruption and appropriation of state rights to use of IPv4 assets for private benefit. — dk@ (also knew Rob, and many veterans.)
On Fri, Jul 26, 2024 at 5:56 AM Niels Dettenbach via ripe-list <ripe-list@ripe.net> wrote:
Am Mittwoch, 24. Juli 2024, 14:26:57 CEST schrieb Gordon Lennox:
I have several good memories of him, both in Moscow and in Brussels, when he was deputy minister.
cite from article:
https://cepa.org/article/russia-jails-the-father-of-russias-internet
"Very few in Russia believe in the government charges against a man widely known as a Father of the Russian Internet — and who is less well known as the father of Andrei Soldatov, one of this article’s authors."
hmm, this claims are unfortunately subjective and not helpful / no journalism at all. Who are "very few" and who are the names of the other ppl cited. And "believing" is a personal thing...
"Soldatov was accused of abuse of power when managing a pool of IP-addresses by an organization he had no position at. This legal absurdity was enough to see him imprisoned..."
How the author came to the conculsion of a "legal absurdity"?
Are there any details about the crime case available? To me this (at least) sounds like a corruption case (even if the translation "abuse of power" sounds bit weird to western terms, it could be a typical term for what we know more general as "corruption") and without any hard details, it is difficult to understand if these claims against his person are correct or without any base.
But from my experiences in (not only) ex-sovjet countries, it would be not the first case of real / large scale corruption by "abusing" a - historically grown - "powerful position" in the countries IP scene in ex. sovjet and even other countries.
Unfortunately, the arcticle is not bringing any light to the hints / base of the case.
just my .02 €
niels.
-- --- Niels Dettenbach Syndicat IT & Internet https://www.syndicat.com PGP: https://syndicat.com/pub_key.asc ---
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And in German, with some more details. https://www.heise.de/news/Gericht-verurteilt-Vater-des-russischen-Internet-z... <https://www.heise.de/news/Gericht-verurteilt-Vater-des-russischen-Internet-zu-Haftstrafe-9815696.html>
I know Alexei Soldatov personally and I respect the work he has done for Internet community. On 28/7/24 14:41, Gordon Lennox wrote:
And in German, with some more details.
https://www.heise.de/news/Gericht-verurteilt-Vater-des-russischen-Internet-z... <https://www.heise.de/news/Gericht-verurteilt-Vater-des-russischen-Internet-zu-Haftstrafe-9815696.html>
This one is a quite complete story as far as I can tell. They cite a meduza piece in English from 2019 with a lot of detail too. https://meduza.io/en/feature/2019/12/31/soviet-internet-sovereignty Take your own conclusions. My conclusion is that Alexei Soldatov is treated in the all too familiar way that Russian Czars have dealt with people who did a lot for country and society but who -themselves or whose close relatives- say and do things that are inconvenient for the current Czars. Again, read, talk to people and draw your own conclusions. Daniel
Am Dienstag, 30. Juli 2024, 12:47:58 schrieb Daniel Karrenberg via ripe- list:
They cite a meduza piece in English from 2019 with a lot of detail too. https://meduza.io/en/feature/2019/12/31/soviet-internet-sovereignty
Take your own conclusions. There is nothing in that article which gives at least the opportunity to lead to a more then subjective conclusion. Nothing except a lot of hearsay...
My conclusion is that Alexei Soldatov is treated in the all too familiar way that Russian Czars have dealt with people who did a lot for country and society but who -themselves or whose close relatives- say and do things that are inconvenient for the current Czars.
Sorry, but this is a purely subjective conclusion as well. Could you deliver hard facts for that? I.e. original court documents / proceedings - even original in russian (i can read russian)? even in todays russia such documents are produced in courts. This is not sovjet aera anymore... From my personal experience (i was grown up in GDR and live part time in ex sovjet countries today), i know that corruption in the telco / IP scene of (not only) ex sovjet countries was/is real. And i remember too that some of the cases are used against formerly privileged people when their government wants to get rid of them while the corruption is a´tolerated in other cases. But the corruption as such is real on the other hand: If he did nothing wrong, it would be on his interest to publish the complete story with all details / court documents - not just: "some are believing", "others are saying" and "some investiogators are meaning" - that way we dont find juridical conclusions in a true, free and fair court process. cheers, niels. -- --- Niels Dettenbach Syndicat IT & Internet https://www.syndicat.com PGP: https://syndicat.com/pub_key.asc ---
participants (8)
-
Daniel Karrenberg -
Dmitry Burkov -
Dmitry Kohmanyuk -
Gordon Lennox -
Johan Helsingius -
Leslie -
Niels Dettenbach -
Randy Bush