Register Now for RIPE 75
Dear colleagues, You can now register for RIPE 75 at: https://ripe75.ripe.net/register/ The RIPE 75 Meeting will take place at the Conrad Hotel in Dubai from Sunday 22 to Thursday 26 October 2017. -------------------- Ticket Options -------------------- Week ticket: EUR 350 Day ticket: EUR 125 Student (week) ticket: EUR 50 All new RIPE NCC members are eligible for two free week tickets. You can find more information about ticket options at: https://ripe75.ripe.net/attend/ ----------------- DTCM Requirements ----------------- Please be aware that local Dubai legislation applied to all events in Dubai including the RIPE Meeting require additional information regarding attendees. More information can be found at: https://ripe75.ripe.net/dtcm-requirements/ ------------------- Discount Room Rates ------------------- The Conrad Hotel is offering RIPE 75 attendees a discounted room rate of AED 879,67 (approx. 210 EUR) per night including breakfast, Wi-Fi, VAT and city tax. The discounted rates expire on 25 August 2017 and are subject to availability. You can find booking information at: https://ripe75.ripe.net/venue/ Please note that there are several other hotels nearby. Please see the accommodation page and find the one that is most suitable for you. https://ripe75.ripe.net/venue/hotels/ ------------- RIPE Fellowship ------------- We are now accepting applications for RIPE Fellows in Dubai. The RIPE NCC will cover travel, accommodation and a full week ticket (including the RIPE Dinner). The application closes on 25 August 2017. https://www.ripe.net/fellowship/ ----- RACI ----- The RIPE Academic Cooperation Initiative (RACI) will cover the cost of the meeting ticket, travel and accommodation for successful applicants to present their research at RIPE 75. The deadline to apply is 20 August 2017. Learn more here: https://www.ripe.net/raci/ -------- More information on RIPE 75 can be found at: https://ripe75.ripe.net/ Follow us on Twitter: @ripemeeting, #RIPE75 See you in Dubai in October! Kind regards, Martina de Mas Conference Coordinator RIPE NCC
hi martina, does the following mean that, if i reserve now, i am locked in and any change forfeits the full reservation? This reservation requires a credit card deposit of AED 869.67 which will be charged to your card. If you cancel for any reason, attempt to modify this reservation, or do not arrive on your specified check-in date, your payment is non-refundable. If you use a debit/credit card to check in, a hold may be placed on your card account for the full anticipated amount to be owed to the hotel, including estimated incidentals, through your date of check-out and such hold may not be released for 72 hours from the date of check-out or longer at the discretion of your card issuer. the first paragraph seems to lock in only the arrival date. but the second seems to extend it to the whole stay. randy
All - I'd particularly like to point your attention to: On 27.06.2017 15:11, Martina De Mas wrote:
[...]
----------------- DTCM Requirements ----------------- Please be aware that local Dubai legislation applied to all events in Dubai including the RIPE Meeting require additional information regarding attendees. More information can be found at: https://ripe75.ripe.net/dtcm-requirements/
and ask you to digest the information - specifically wrt. the speakers - put up there. I find the requirements "unusual" and not entirely "RIPE style" - to say the least. But maybe that is just me? Best, -C.
Barcodes? And it is just going to get worse? I have been to Internetdagarna in Stockholm. Which I recommend by the way. But they use RFID-enabled badges and you are “encouraged” to use them for a variety of things, including getting a drink at the social. They then flash the information up on big screens. So “Gordon just got a beer” and "Gordon just had a second beer” and "Gordon ain’t getting any more beer”. And we call this progress? ;-) Gordon PS Will the network be “open” in Dubai? Just that I remember other places where people, the organisers in particular, had to be inventive.
On 03 Jul 2017, at 15:09, Carsten Schiefner <ripe-wgs.cs@schiefner.de> wrote:
All -
I'd particularly like to point your attention to:
On 27.06.2017 15:11, Martina De Mas wrote:
[...]
----------------- DTCM Requirements ----------------- Please be aware that local Dubai legislation applied to all events in Dubai including the RIPE Meeting require additional information regarding attendees. More information can be found at: https://ripe75.ripe.net/dtcm-requirements/
and ask you to digest the information - specifically wrt. the speakers - put up there.
I find the requirements "unusual" and not entirely "RIPE style" - to say the least.
But maybe that is just me?
Best,
-C.
On 3 Jul 2017, at 14:09, Carsten Schiefner <ripe-wgs.cs@schiefner.de> wrote:
I find the requirements "unusual" and not entirely "RIPE style" - to say the least.
<AOL Mode>Me too!</AOL Mode> It’s even stranger because when I was in Dubai for an ITU meeting (sigh) earlier this year, nothing was said (or done) about these DTCM requirements. Attendees were not bar-coded or obliged to hand over their Personal Data in advance. Mind you, the hotel demanded they photocopy my passport at check-in. Which is annoying enough. I wonder what would happen if a bunch of “tourists" turned up in Dubai and just happened to walk into the RIPE meeting? Will there be badge police at the door checking for bar-codes? This DTCM silliness is not compatible with RIPE meetings and I’m very disappointed that The Management has just accepted it.
On 3 July 2017 at 18:38, Jim Reid <jim@rfc1035.com> wrote:
It’s even stranger because when I was in Dubai for an ITU meeting (sigh) earlier this year, nothing was said (or done) about these DTCM requirements. Attendees were not bar-coded or obliged to hand over their Personal Data in advance.
ITU is an international treaty organisation, so special rules may apply. The ITU and UN meetings I have been to have had rather strict registration and badge restrictions. Dubai has changed the rules/enforcement of the rules rather recently as I understand it. This is unfortunate, but I hope it will not be a showstopper for a successful meeting.
Mind you, the hotel demanded they photocopy my passport at check-in. Which is annoying enough.
That happens to me in most countries. -- Sincerely, Hans Petter Holen -RIPE Chair
On 5 Jul 2017, at 14:02, Hans Petter Holen <hph@oslo.net> wrote:
On 3 July 2017 at 18:38, Jim Reid <jim@rfc1035.com> wrote:
It’s even stranger because when I was in Dubai for an ITU meeting (sigh) earlier this year, nothing was said (or done) about these DTCM requirements. Attendees were not bar-coded or obliged to hand over their Personal Data in advance.
ITU is an international treaty organisation, so special rules may apply.
Special rules didn’t seem to have been put into place for that earlier meeting. The hotel that hosted it didn’t know or care if I was an attendee. The immigration people at DXB didn’t either. There probably would have been no way for either of them to find that out. Assuming they wanted to. Which they didn’t AFAICT.
The ITU and UN meetings I have been to have had rather strict registration and badge restrictions.
How those organisations choose to run their meetings is an entirely different issue.
The Internet has not simply been a technical thing. There are cultural and political components. And anyway on the technical side everybody - almost everybody? - is using IP these days. So I remember when the IETF went to Beijing. Some people brought provocative t-shirts. Some seemed to have bought some provocative t-shirts especially. Nothing offensive. But definitely political. There was some attempt at keeping locals out of the meeting area. But of course there were IETF-ers who promptly “crashed" the badge check. So I am not sure how successful the block was. Access to the IETF’s network was a local concern and so we all picked a login pair out of a bucket at registration. So the local need to restrict access to attendees was complemented by giving a bit of anonymity to attendees. Maybe NCC can clarify a little bit more what is to be expected in Dubai? Gordon PS Sometimes it can be amusing. Anyone else remember ICANN in Tunisia and the locals using the public terminals to access porn?
On 03 Jul 2017, at 15:09, Carsten Schiefner <ripe-wgs.cs@schiefner.de> wrote:
I find the requirements "unusual" and not entirely "RIPE style" - to say the least.
Access to the IETF’s network was a local concern and so we all picked a login pair out of a bucket at registration. So the local need to restrict access to attendees was complemented by giving a bit of anonymity to attendees.
Maybe NCC can clarify a little bit more what is to be expected in Dubai?
as one of the key designers of the beijing authorization system, i have no idea how to help in dubai (if anyone cared) because i have no idea what the layer>7 goals and constraints are. randy
Hi all, On 04/07/17 11:55, Randy Bush wrote:
Access to the IETF’s network was a local concern and so we all picked a login pair out of a bucket at registration. So the local need to restrict access to attendees was complemented by giving a bit of anonymity to attendees.
Maybe NCC can clarify a little bit more what is to be expected in Dubai?
as one of the key designers of the beijing authorization system, i have no idea how to help in dubai (if anyone cared) because i have no idea what the layer>7 goals and constraints are.
randy
For the RIPE 75 Meeting in Dubai, we plan to set up our usual network, together with the generic login we always provide for RIPE Meetings and not individual access accounts. Kind regards, Brian Riddle IT Manager RIPE NCC
Access to the IETF’s network was a local concern and so we all picked a login pair out of a bucket at registration. So the local need to restrict access to attendees was complemented by giving a bit of anonymity to attendees.
Maybe NCC can clarify a little bit more what is to be expected in Dubai?
as one of the key designers of the beijing authorization system, i have no idea how to help in dubai (if anyone cared) because i have no idea what the layer>7 goals and constraints are.
For the RIPE 75 Meeting in Dubai, we plan to set up our usual network, together with the generic login we always provide for RIPE Meetings and not individual access accounts.
then i am utterly confused what all the noise is about. let's get serious here. to me, the critical question is availability of decent coffee. did the site survey cover this? randy
On 05/07/17 09:41, Randy Bush wrote:
then i am utterly confused what all the noise is about.
let's get serious here. to me, the critical question is availability of decent coffee. did the site survey cover this?
Trust Randy to get to the heart of the matter... can we move on? Nigel
On 5 Jul 2017, at 11:01, Nigel Titley <nigel@titley.com> wrote:
can we move on?
With respect - no. If it is OK to chat about coffee then it ought to be OK to chat about other things related to the meeting. It has already been pointed out that this meeting is atypical is several respects. I am intrigued by the requirement to supply a mini-CV. I am not clear where and when the bar-codes will be scanned. Any information there? Using the Internet in this region though has been problematic in the past, both in terms of content (mostly the usual stuff) and services/protocols (again mostly the usual stuff). So it seemed worthwhile to talk about the current situation, of which I presume NCC are quite aware. It was good to get Brian’s reassurance that access to the meeting network would be as usual, and by implication there will be no restrictions towards the rest of the Internet. By way of putting some of this in some kind of perspective I mentioned two other meetings. In Stockholm I was not entirely comfortable with the use of RFIDs. Maybe I have been to too many IETF meetings? In Beijing I was struck by the “bucket” solution - I should have guessed that Randy was involved. But it met both the requirements of the local authorities and of the IETF crowd. I wonder which one was harder to please? So probably still some questions. But I guess no rush. I hope nobody else will feel inhibited about writing though. And I sincerely hope Randy’s coffee needs are met! Gordon
I fully agree that we should have meetings at every country covered by the RIPE constituency, however, I think the community has the right to decide, when there are such kind of special conditions, if we want to have a meeting there or not. Now is too late to change the meeting location, but we should learn from that for future locations with “special” conditions. I’ve been in Dubai already for a previous meeting, and for other reasons, and haven’t got any issue, but I don’t recall having needed to submit my passport up-front, even if I was a speaker, so it is really surprising. Regards, Jordi -----Mensaje original----- De: ripe-list <ripe-list-bounces@ripe.net> en nombre de Gordon Lennox <gordon.lennox.13@gmail.com> Responder a: <gordon.lennox.13@gmail.com> Fecha: miércoles, 5 de julio de 2017, 12:27 Para: <ripe-list@ripe.net> CC: Nigel Titley <nigel@titley.com> Asunto: Re: [ripe-list] RIPE 75 - DTCM Requirements On 5 Jul 2017, at 11:01, Nigel Titley <nigel@titley.com> wrote: can we move on? With respect - no. If it is OK to chat about coffee then it ought to be OK to chat about other things related to the meeting. It has already been pointed out that this meeting is atypical is several respects. I am intrigued by the requirement to supply a mini-CV. I am not clear where and when the bar-codes will be scanned. Any information there? Using the Internet in this region though has been problematic in the past, both in terms of content (mostly the usual stuff) and services/protocols (again mostly the usual stuff). So it seemed worthwhile to talk about the current situation, of which I presume NCC are quite aware. It was good to get Brian’s reassurance that access to the meeting network would be as usual, and by implication there will be no restrictions towards the rest of the Internet. By way of putting some of this in some kind of perspective I mentioned two other meetings. In Stockholm I was not entirely comfortable with the use of RFIDs. Maybe I have been to too many IETF meetings? In Beijing I was struck by the “bucket” solution - I should have guessed that Randy was involved. But it met both the requirements of the local authorities and of the IETF crowd. I wonder which one was harder to please? So probably still some questions. But I guess no rush. I hope nobody else will feel inhibited about writing though. And I sincerely hope Randy’s coffee needs are met! Gordon ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.consulintel.es The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, including attached files, is prohibited.
On 5 Jul 2017, at 11:50, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet@consulintel.es> wrote:
I think the community has the right to decide, when there are such kind of special conditions, if we want to have a meeting there or not.
Nope. The community can and should decide the general principles for a meeting host or location -- open to everyone, no bar-coding or DNA sampling of attendees, no excessive demands for Personal Data, decent flight connections, affordability, etc, etc. It’s then up to The Management to apply those principles when they choose a venue. The community can’t and shouldn’t interfere in such matters of implementation detail. Just imagine how hard it would be to get the RIPE community to reach consensus on where its meetings are held. If the numbers for RIPE75 are down or too many people complain about Dubai’s rules, I’m sure that will be remembered for the next time RIPE comes to the gulf region.
I’m fine with an overall decision of the “general principles for a meeting location”, but is not that going to have almost the same difficulty for reaching consensus? Has this been decided already? There is a document about that? In IETF we have the same issue, for example is under consideration to cancel San Francisco meetings because the actual administration ban to participants from certain countries and also the possibility to avoid traveling with your computer, tablet, etc., on board. Regards, Jordi -----Mensaje original----- De: Jim Reid <jim@rfc1035.com> Responder a: <jim@rfc1035.com> Fecha: miércoles, 5 de julio de 2017, 13:22 Para: <jordi.palet@consulintel.es> CC: <ripe-list@ripe.net> Asunto: choosing locations for RIPE meetings > On 5 Jul 2017, at 11:50, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet@consulintel.es> wrote: > > I think the community has the right to decide, when there are such kind of special conditions, if we want to have a meeting there or not. Nope. The community can and should decide the general principles for a meeting host or location -- open to everyone, no bar-coding or DNA sampling of attendees, no excessive demands for Personal Data, decent flight connections, affordability, etc, etc. It’s then up to The Management to apply those principles when they choose a venue. The community can’t and shouldn’t interfere in such matters of implementation detail. Just imagine how hard it would be to get the RIPE community to reach consensus on where its meetings are held. If the numbers for RIPE75 are down or too many people complain about Dubai’s rules, I’m sure that will be remembered for the next time RIPE comes to the gulf region. ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.consulintel.es The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, including attached files, is prohibited.
On 5 Jul 2017, at 12:30, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet@consulintel.es> wrote:
I’m fine with an overall decision of the “general principles for a meeting location”, but is not that going to have almost the same difficulty for reaching consensus? Has this been decided already? There is a document about that?
I don’t believe so. IIRC there have been discussions from time to time about producing such a document and they never went anywhere.
On 5 July 2017 at 14:11, Jim Reid <jim@rfc1035.com> wrote:
On 5 Jul 2017, at 12:30, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ < jordi.palet@consulintel.es> wrote:
I’m fine with an overall decision of the “general principles for a meeting location”, but is not that going to have almost the same difficulty for reaching consensus? Has this been decided already? There is a document about that?
I don’t believe so. IIRC there have been discussions from time to time about producing such a document and they never went anywhere.
The location of RIPE meetings are chosen according to the process described at: https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/ripe-meetings/ripe-meeting- location-selection-process The page links to a document describing the requirements. Improvement suggestions are as always welcome. As to the particular requirements for the upcoming meeting in Dubai, UAE, the requirements were not know to us, nor the local host at the time the decision was made. It would definitely been taken into consideration had it been known. -- Sincerely, Hans Petter Holen - RIPE Chair - hph@oslo.net - +47 4506605
Clearly what is missing there is something ensuring the “wide” participation from all the RIPE region countries, disallowing locations that will be of great trouble for people to attend, not restricting access to any specific country, allowing freedom of speech and freedom of Internet access. Meeting in a country that do any kind of Internet filtering should discard that location. I suggest, instead of working in something new, looking at the IETF documents, as they may be a starting point. https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-palet-ietf-meeting-venue-selection-criteri... Actual work is under a new WG: https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/mtgvenue/about/ Regarding technical requirements: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-palet-ietf-meeting-network-requirements-01 Regards, Jordi -----Mensaje original----- De: ripe-list <ripe-list-bounces@ripe.net> en nombre de Hans Petter Holen <hph@oslo.net> Responder a: <hph@oslo.net> Fecha: miércoles, 5 de julio de 2017, 14:54 Para: Jim Reid <jim@rfc1035.com> CC: <ripe-list@ripe.net>, <jordi.palet@consulintel.es> Asunto: Re: [ripe-list] choosing locations for RIPE meetings On 5 July 2017 at 14:11, Jim Reid <jim@rfc1035.com> wrote: > On 5 Jul 2017, at 12:30, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet@consulintel.es> wrote: > > I’m fine with an overall decision of the “general principles for a meeting location”, but is not that going to have almost the same difficulty for reaching consensus? Has this been decided already? There is a document about that? I don’t believe so. IIRC there have been discussions from time to time about producing such a document and they never went anywhere. The location of RIPE meetings are chosen according to the process described at: https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/ripe-meetings/ripe-meeting-locatio... The page links to a document describing the requirements. Improvement suggestions are as always welcome. As to the particular requirements for the upcoming meeting in Dubai, UAE, the requirements were not know to us, nor the local host at the time the decision was made. It would definitely been taken into consideration had it been known. -- Sincerely, Hans Petter Holen - RIPE Chair - hph@oslo.net - +47 4506605 ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.consulintel.es The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, including attached files, is prohibited.
Tanks for the references, I will study them with interest - and looking forward to the outcome of the IETF process. It is however worth considering that a meeting within the Schengen area would probably not fulfil the requirements specified in your draft from 2006. No matter how detailed specifications we make, somebody in the end have to make a judgement call on where to go. In some cases the landscape changes after the decision has been made. In such a case we must either live with the new requirements, move or cancel the meeting. In most cases that may be to late or to expensive. On 5 July 2017 at 15:05, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet@consulintel.es> wrote:
Clearly what is missing there is something ensuring the “wide” participation from all the RIPE region countries, disallowing locations that will be of great trouble for people to attend, not restricting access to any specific country, allowing freedom of speech and freedom of Internet access. Meeting in a country that do any kind of Internet filtering should discard that location.
I suggest, instead of working in something new, looking at the IETF documents, as they may be a starting point.
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-palet-ietf-meeting- venue-selection-criteria-04
Actual work is under a new WG:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/mtgvenue/about/
Regarding technical requirements:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-palet-ietf-meeting- network-requirements-01
Regards, Jordi
-----Mensaje original----- De: ripe-list <ripe-list-bounces@ripe.net> en nombre de Hans Petter Holen <hph@oslo.net> Responder a: <hph@oslo.net> Fecha: miércoles, 5 de julio de 2017, 14:54 Para: Jim Reid <jim@rfc1035.com> CC: <ripe-list@ripe.net>, <jordi.palet@consulintel.es> Asunto: Re: [ripe-list] choosing locations for RIPE meetings
On 5 July 2017 at 14:11, Jim Reid <jim@rfc1035.com> wrote:
> On 5 Jul 2017, at 12:30, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ < jordi.palet@consulintel.es> wrote: > > I’m fine with an overall decision of the “general principles for a meeting location”, but is not that going to have almost the same difficulty for reaching consensus? Has this been decided already? There is a document about that?
I don’t believe so. IIRC there have been discussions from time to time about producing such a document and they never went anywhere.
The location of RIPE meetings are chosen according to the process described at:
https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/ripe-meetings/ripe-meeting- location-selection-process
The page links to a document describing the requirements.
Improvement suggestions are as always welcome.
As to the particular requirements for the upcoming meeting in Dubai, UAE, the requirements were not know to us, nor the local host at the time the decision was made. It would definitely been taken into consideration had it been known.
-- Sincerely, Hans Petter Holen - RIPE Chair - hph@oslo.net - +47 4506605
********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.consulintel.es The IPv6 Company
This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, including attached files, is prohibited.
-- Sincerely, Hans Petter Holen - hph@oslo.net - +47 45066054
Of course, the 2006 document may not work now, is just a reference for issues to consider (actually not sure the reason for your comment). Also IETF meeting is not exactly the same as a RIR one, but close. I think in the case of RIPE, a higher-level decision should be “are we going to meet in places were a considerable % of participants will have difficult to come?” “Are there privacy implications, such as providing a passport and CV in advance” “is Internet access being restricted in some way?” “are we accepting countries with fines for mistakes in submitting documents” “are we accepting providing a personal cellular phone (I never provided it and will never do)”. Note that I’m not speaking for myself, I’m mostly not concerned for all this, but respect others that may be, even I purchased my flight and booked my Dubai hotel several months ago, as I usually do to save some budget. However, I feel concerned with the new requirements and I believe in general we should disallow meeting in locations with “surprising” requirements and we should have a policy for willing to go to locations with similar requirements. Also, we should remind that RIPE meetings are also attended by people in other regions, and we should support them. Regards, Jordi -----Mensaje original----- De: ripe-list <ripe-list-bounces@ripe.net> en nombre de Hans Petter Holen <hph@oslo.net> Responder a: <hph@oslo.net> Fecha: miércoles, 5 de julio de 2017, 15:17 Para: <jordi.palet@consulintel.es> CC: <ripe-list@ripe.net> Asunto: Re: [ripe-list] choosing locations for RIPE meetings Tanks for the references, I will study them with interest - and looking forward to the outcome of the IETF process. It is however worth considering that a meeting within the Schengen area would probably not fulfil the requirements specified in your draft from 2006. No matter how detailed specifications we make, somebody in the end have to make a judgement call on where to go. In some cases the landscape changes after the decision has been made. In such a case we must either live with the new requirements, move or cancel the meeting. In most cases that may be to late or to expensive. On 5 July 2017 at 15:05, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet@consulintel.es> wrote: Clearly what is missing there is something ensuring the “wide” participation from all the RIPE region countries, disallowing locations that will be of great trouble for people to attend, not restricting access to any specific country, allowing freedom of speech and freedom of Internet access. Meeting in a country that do any kind of Internet filtering should discard that location. I suggest, instead of working in something new, looking at the IETF documents, as they may be a starting point. https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-palet-ietf-meeting-venue-selection-criteri... Actual work is under a new WG: https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/mtgvenue/about/ Regarding technical requirements: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-palet-ietf-meeting-network-requirements-01 Regards, Jordi -----Mensaje original----- De: ripe-list <ripe-list-bounces@ripe.net> en nombre de Hans Petter Holen <hph@oslo.net> Responder a: <hph@oslo.net> Fecha: miércoles, 5 de julio de 2017, 14:54 Para: Jim Reid <jim@rfc1035.com> CC: <ripe-list@ripe.net>, <jordi.palet@consulintel.es> Asunto: Re: [ripe-list] choosing locations for RIPE meetings On 5 July 2017 at 14:11, Jim Reid <jim@rfc1035.com> wrote: > On 5 Jul 2017, at 12:30, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet@consulintel.es> wrote: > > I’m fine with an overall decision of the “general principles for a meeting location”, but is not that going to have almost the same difficulty for reaching consensus? Has this been decided already? There is a document about that? I don’t believe so. IIRC there have been discussions from time to time about producing such a document and they never went anywhere. The location of RIPE meetings are chosen according to the process described at: https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/ripe-meetings/ripe-meeting-locatio... The page links to a document describing the requirements. Improvement suggestions are as always welcome. As to the particular requirements for the upcoming meeting in Dubai, UAE, the requirements were not know to us, nor the local host at the time the decision was made. It would definitely been taken into consideration had it been known. -- Sincerely, Hans Petter Holen - RIPE Chair - hph@oslo.net - +47 4506605 ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.consulintel.es The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, including attached files, is prohibited. -- Sincerely, Hans Petter Holen - hph@oslo.net - +47 45066054 ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.consulintel.es The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, including attached files, is prohibited.
On Wed, Jul 05, 2017 at 03:28:34PM +0200, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:
Are there privacy implications, such as providing a passport and CV in advance???
For Germans, providing (or allowing to take) a copy of personal ID documents is - except under some very specific exceptions and strict rules which also encompass redaction requrirements - simply UNLAWFUL. Congrats, you've just excluded any individual with sole German citizenship from being a presenter, unless this individual is happy to violate federal law. Best regards, Daniel -- CLUE-RIPE -- Jabber: dr@cluenet.de -- dr@IRCnet -- PGP: 0xA85C8AA0
Il 18/07/2017 02:52, Daniel Roesen ha scritto:
On Wed, Jul 05, 2017 at 03:28:34PM +0200, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:
Are there privacy implications, such as providing a passport and CV in advance???
For Germans, providing (or allowing to take) a copy of personal ID documents is - except under some very specific exceptions and strict rules which also encompass redaction requrirements - simply UNLAWFUL.
Congrats, you've just excluded any individual with sole German citizenship from being a presenter, unless this individual is happy to violate federal law.
German law is valid only on German soil. So, even a german, has to adapt to local laws.
Hi Claudio, On 18.07.2017 09:54, Claudio Ferronato wrote:
Il 18/07/2017 02:52, Daniel Roesen ha scritto:
On Wed, Jul 05, 2017 at 03:28:34PM +0200, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:
Are there privacy implications, such as providing a passport and CV in advance???
For Germans, providing (or allowing to take) a copy of personal ID documents is - except under some very specific exceptions and strict rules which also encompass redaction requrirements - simply UNLAWFUL.
Congrats, you've just excluded any individual with sole German citizenship from being a presenter, unless this individual is happy to violate federal law.
German law is valid only on German soil.
that claim in its undercomplex simplicity is simply a false one.
So, even a german, has to adapt to local laws.
That, I guess, is undisputed by Daniel. However, if local laws are in conflict with German laws such as the passport and ID card law, it is up to that very individual to draw appropriate conclusions from this matter of fact. One of them - maybe even the only one - has been outlined by Daniel in his post. Best, -C.
Hi Carsten Il 18/07/2017 10:20, Carsten Schiefner ha scritto:
Hi Claudio,
On 18.07.2017 09:54, Claudio Ferronato wrote:
Il 18/07/2017 02:52, Daniel Roesen ha scritto:
On Wed, Jul 05, 2017 at 03:28:34PM +0200, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:
Are there privacy implications, such as providing a passport and CV in advance???
For Germans, providing (or allowing to take) a copy of personal ID documents is - except under some very specific exceptions and strict rules which also encompass redaction requrirements - simply UNLAWFUL.
Congrats, you've just excluded any individual with sole German citizenship from being a presenter, unless this individual is happy to violate federal law.
German law is valid only on German soil.
that claim in its undercomplex simplicity is simply a false one. I think for things like copying personal ID documents, it's enough. But iIf I'm in error, please direct me where I can get correct information.
Because, if local laws require hotels to identify every guest, what is the difference between a photocopy and a copy of every field on a computer (giving up the signature)? Or how to make a delegation, even for taking a registered mail? So, this is why it is so strange for me to read copying ID documents is unlawful. Best Regards Claudio
Hi folks, Claudio Ferronato <claudio.ferronato@hynet.it> writes:
Hi Carsten
Il 18/07/2017 10:20, Carsten Schiefner ha scritto:
Hi Claudio,
On 18.07.2017 09:54, Claudio Ferronato wrote:
Il 18/07/2017 02:52, Daniel Roesen ha scritto:
On Wed, Jul 05, 2017 at 03:28:34PM +0200, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:
Are there privacy implications, such as providing a passport and CV in advance???
For Germans, providing (or allowing to take) a copy of personal ID documents is - except under some very specific exceptions and strict rules which also encompass redaction requrirements - simply UNLAWFUL.
Congrats, you've just excluded any individual with sole German citizenship from being a presenter, unless this individual is happy to violate federal law.
As I just pointed out in the IPv6 list there's a huge difference between national ID card and passport. Daniel is right about ID cards, but as far as it concerns German passports the only one potentially in trouble is the NCC who passes those copies on.
German law is valid only on German soil.
That's quite an oversimplification. If I nicked some sort of business secret from a customer of mine, went to another country and sold it there, then German law *would* apply. It might only be applicable when I return, but that's a different issue.
that claim in its undercomplex simplicity is simply a false one. I think for things like copying personal ID documents, it's enough. But iIf I'm in error, please direct me where I can get correct information.
https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/pa_g_1986/BJNR105370986.html
Because, if local laws require hotels to identify every guest, what is the difference between a photocopy and a copy of every field on a computer (giving up the signature)?
A photocopy provides significantly more information for faking one than just the data.
Or how to make a delegation, even for taking a registered mail?
That's actually one of the issues. If a copy of my ID can be used for any sort of legal business, and if I have to hand out copies of my ID to all sorts of people, then this makes various sorts of identity theft rather simple. Cheers, Benedikt -- Benedikt Stockebrand, Stepladder IT Training+Consulting Dipl.-Inform. http://www.stepladder-it.com/ Business Grade IPv6 --- Consulting, Training, Projects BIVBlog---Benedikt's IT Video Blog: http://www.stepladder-it.com/bivblog/
On 5 Jul 2017, at 11:50, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet@consulintel.es> wrote: I fully agree that we should have meetings at every country covered by the RIPE constituency, however, I think the community has the right to decide, when there are such kind of special conditions, if we want to have a meeting there or not.
I’m not sure I agree with “the community has the right to decide” part. From an operational point of view (from my experience of running UKNOF meetings and DNS-OARC workshops, it is not a simple task to find a place to hold a meeting with a willing Host. Once the Host is found it is then down to venue logistics and that in itself is not simple as there are so many different parts to this that need to join up… RIPE NCC have to cover the whole region it operates in. It can not be shown to and should not favour one part of the region over another. There are going to be parts of the region where things are unusual for those from “the West”, however we also have to keep in mind that those coming from outside of the usual “West” will also have faced challenges travelling to RIPE meetings due to various Visa / entry rules. How easy is it for delegates from the Middle east to get to a RIPE meeting being held in say, Amsterdam? We all, at some point, have to accept that it will be difficult to travel to meetings due to entry requirements, or the country has policies we do not agree with - in which case, we give the appropriate message by not going to that particular meeting. ICANN too have similar considerations when it comes to their main meetings. It is this - meeting numbers and demographics - which may shape the choosing of future venues, Host and ultimately, meeting logistics.. Regards Denesh
Now is too late to change the meeting location, but we should learn from that for future locations with “special” conditions.
I’ve been in Dubai already for a previous meeting, and for other reasons, and haven’t got any issue, but I don’t recall having needed to submit my passport up-front, even if I was a speaker, so it is really surprising.
Regards, Jordi
-----Mensaje original----- De: ripe-list <ripe-list-bounces@ripe.net> en nombre de Gordon Lennox <gordon.lennox.13@gmail.com> Responder a: <gordon.lennox.13@gmail.com> Fecha: miércoles, 5 de julio de 2017, 12:27 Para: <ripe-list@ripe.net> CC: Nigel Titley <nigel@titley.com> Asunto: Re: [ripe-list] RIPE 75 - DTCM Requirements
On 5 Jul 2017, at 11:01, Nigel Titley <nigel@titley.com> wrote:
can we move on?
With respect - no.
If it is OK to chat about coffee then it ought to be OK to chat about other things related to the meeting.
It has already been pointed out that this meeting is atypical is several respects.
I am intrigued by the requirement to supply a mini-CV. I am not clear where and when the bar-codes will be scanned. Any information there?
Using the Internet in this region though has been problematic in the past, both in terms of content (mostly the usual stuff) and services/protocols (again mostly the usual stuff). So it seemed worthwhile to talk about the current situation, of which I presume NCC are quite aware.
It was good to get Brian’s reassurance that access to the meeting network would be as usual, and by implication there will be no restrictions towards the rest of the Internet.
By way of putting some of this in some kind of perspective I mentioned two other meetings.
In Stockholm I was not entirely comfortable with the use of RFIDs. Maybe I have been to too many IETF meetings?
In Beijing I was struck by the “bucket” solution - I should have guessed that Randy was involved. But it met both the requirements of the local authorities and of the IETF crowd. I wonder which one was harder to please?
So probably still some questions. But I guess no rush. I hope nobody else will feel inhibited about writing though.
And I sincerely hope Randy’s coffee needs are met!
Gordon
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Thanks, Gordon - On 05.07.2017 12:27, Gordon Lennox wrote:
On 5 Jul 2017, at 11:01, Nigel Titley <nigel@titley.com <mailto:nigel@titley.com>> wrote:
can we move on?
With respect - no.
[...]
I have already begun to believe that it is just us overcautious Germans again who as usual would spoil all the joy and bore everybody to death with our data privacy concerns. -C.
Gordon Lennox wrote:
In Stockholm I was not entirely comfortable with the use of RFIDs. Maybe I have been to too many IETF meetings?
10 seconds in the microwave is enough to solve any RFID privacy problem. Nick
On 5 Jul 2017, at 15:12, Nick Hilliard <nick@inex.ie> wrote:
10 seconds in the microwave is enough to solve any RFID privacy problem.
At what power and frequency settings? Since we’re mostly engineers here it’s important to get these implementation details right. :-)
"Until it curls gently" These are cooking instructions after all. Ole Ole J. Jacobsen Editor and Publisher The Internet Protocol Journal Web: protocoljournal.org On Wed, 5 Jul 2017, Jim Reid wrote:
At what power and frequency settings?
Since we’re mostly engineers here it’s important to get these implementation details right. :-)
But then I would have to buy the beer! So trade-offs, trade-offs. And need I mention that I am a Scot and this was Stockholm? ;-) Gordon PS I expect next time they will want to put something on my phone. Just to make tracking easier? Signing room-sheets is such a waste of time!
On 5 Jul 2017, at 16:12, Nick Hilliard <nick@inex.ie> wrote:
Gordon Lennox wrote:
In Stockholm I was not entirely comfortable with the use of RFIDs. Maybe I have been to too many IETF meetings?
10 seconds in the microwave is enough to solve any RFID privacy problem.
Nick
Hi, On Wed, Jul 05, 2017 at 05:16:05PM +0200, Gordon Lennox wrote:
PS I expect next time they will want to put something on my phone. Just to make tracking easier? Signing room-sheets is such a waste of time!
Great suggestion, thank you so much :-) Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279
I trust that was a “wink”. In the meantime our Swedish friends are making even more interesting progress: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/on-leadership/wp/2017/04/04/some-swedish... I am not sure whether that makes them “things” or whether they are indeed 6-enabled. But… Duh! Gordon
On 5 Jul 2017, at 19:26, Gert Doering <gert@space.net> wrote:
Hi,
On Wed, Jul 05, 2017 at 05:16:05PM +0200, Gordon Lennox wrote:
PS I expect next time they will want to put something on my phone. Just to make tracking easier? Signing room-sheets is such a waste of time!
Great suggestion, thank you so much :-)
Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...?
On 5 Jul 2017, at 09:41, Randy Bush <randy@psg.com> wrote:
to me, the critical question is availability of decent coffee.
Decent coffee and desalinated water are mutually exclusive, so good luck with that. OTOH in Dubai anything is possible if you’re able to pay the asking price. I expect at least one of its hotels will have a fleet of gold plated Rolls Royces serving coffee that uses water sourced from Himalayan glacier ice that’s been towed to the gulf by dolphins. Or something.
to me, the critical question is availability of decent coffee.
Decent coffee and desalinated water are mutually exclusive, so good luck with that.
OTOH in Dubai anything is possible if you’re able to pay the asking price. I expect at least one of its hotels will have a fleet of gold plated Rolls Royces serving coffee that uses water sourced from Himalayan glacier ice that’s been towed to the gulf by dolphins. Or something.
the question is whether or not i bring beans, grinder, and aeropress. earlier this month, i had to do so, and was doing it with himalayan water in thinphu, a tea culture. my kit worked well, and i was happy to have it. i assure you the ietf noc team is assiduous about covering coffee [0] availibility in the site survey. i suspect brian's team has that knowledge for las veg^H^Hdubai. randy 0 - x ∉ Y, where x is fourbucks and Y is coffee
participants (16)
-
Benedikt Stockebrand -
Brian Riddle -
Carsten Schiefner -
Claudio Ferronato -
Daniel Roesen -
Denesh Bhabuta -
Gert Doering -
Gordon Lennox -
Hans Petter Holen -
Jim Reid -
JORDI PALET MARTINEZ -
Martina De Mas -
Nick Hilliard -
Nigel Titley -
Ole Jacobsen -
Randy Bush