Hello, I hope this is the right list for my question, otherwise please sent me a notice. I contacted my ISP (=Online in Belgium) for 4 IP addresses. Some months ago we got one fixed IP, but we need some more now. The 'commercial manager' of my ISP responded that I have to pay 3000Bfr/year (this is approx. 80$/year) for one IP. It already sounded very weird to me that they charged that fee for non-commercial groups like us, so I wondered if this is 1) legally 2) too much 3) fraud I can totally agree if they ask a one-time setup (registration cost) and perhaps some little annual costs, but this is just too much for us IMHO. Another thing I'd like to ask about: Everytime I want to order some new IP-addresses, my ISP says that they'll also have to change my old fixed IP's into new ones. Is this just a normal procedure, or is this some kind of backdoor to fraud? How can I check that my ISP registered those IP's under my name and contact, and not under their's? Best regards, Koen Breugelmans, sysadmin <kbr@mira.net.dhis.org> Patrick Weckhuyzen, informaticacoordinator <pweckhuyzen@online.be> Hilde Van Roey, informaticaverantwoordelijke <hvanroey@online.be> -- [-=====================================================-] | '^' Herr Pirre <kbr@mira.net.dhis.org> | | (O,0) Feasting on the blood of the insane, | | ( ) here's another tale of the fucking deranged | [-=="="================================================-] public PGP-key at http://www.student.kuleuven.ac.be/~m9920190/koen.asc
Hi Koen, Queries like this may be sent to <ncc@ripe.net> Koen Breugelmans <kbr@mira.net.dhis.org> writes: * * I contacted my ISP (=Online in Belgium) for 4 IP addresses. Some months ago * we got one fixed IP, but we need some more now. The 'commercial manager' of * my ISP responded that I have to pay 3000Bfr/year (this is approx. 80$/year) * for one IP. * It already sounded very weird to me that they charged that fee for * non-commercial groups like us, so I wondered if this is * 1) legally * 2) too much * 3) fraud * * I can totally agree if they ask a one-time setup (registration cost) and * perhaps some little annual costs, but this is just too much for us IMHO. * * Another thing I'd like to ask about: Everytime I want to order some new * IP-addresses, my ISP says that they'll also have to change my old fixed IP's * into new ones. Is this just a normal procedure, or is this some kind of * backdoor to fraud? How can I check that my ISP registered those IP's under * my name and contact, and not under their's? * * * Best regards, * Koen Breugelmans, sysadmin <kbr@mira.net.dhis.org> Kind regards, David Knight RIPE NCC
Koen, The european ISP community agreed that it is reasonable to charge an administrative fee for the services related to the assignment of IP address space, but that there should be no charge for the addresses as such. Please see the document 'Charging by Local Internet Registries' under the following URL for more details: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ripe-152.html Kind Regards, Mirjam Kuhne RIPE NCC Koen Breugelmans <kbr@mira.net.dhis.org> writes: * Hello, * * I hope this is the right list for my question, otherwise please sent me a * notice. * * I contacted my ISP (=Online in Belgium) for 4 IP addresses. Some months ago * we got one fixed IP, but we need some more now. The 'commercial manager' of * my ISP responded that I have to pay 3000Bfr/year (this is approx. 80$/year) * for one IP. * It already sounded very weird to me that they charged that fee for * non-commercial groups like us, so I wondered if this is * 1) legally * 2) too much * 3) fraud * * I can totally agree if they ask a one-time setup (registration cost) and * perhaps some little annual costs, but this is just too much for us IMHO. * * Another thing I'd like to ask about: Everytime I want to order some new * IP-addresses, my ISP says that they'll also have to change my old fixed IP' * s * into new ones. Is this just a normal procedure, or is this some kind of * backdoor to fraud? How can I check that my ISP registered those IP's under * my name and contact, and not under their's? * * * Best regards, * Koen Breugelmans, sysadmin <kbr@mira.net.dhis.org> * Patrick Weckhuyzen, informaticacoordinator <pweckhuyzen@online.be> * Hilde Van Roey, informaticaverantwoordelijke <hvanroey@online.be> * -- * [-=====================================================-] * | '^' Herr Pirre <kbr@mira.net.dhis.org> | * | (O,0) Feasting on the blood of the insane, | * | ( ) here's another tale of the fucking deranged | * [-=="="================================================-] * public PGP-key at http://www.student.kuleuven.ac.be/~m9920190/koen.asc *
On Thu, 18 May 2000, Mirjam Kuehne wrote:
The european ISP community agreed that it is reasonable to charge an administrative fee for the services related to the assignment of IP address space, but that there should be no charge for the addresses as such. Please see the document 'Charging by Local Internet Registries' under the following URL for more details:
So fees like mentioned on http://www.widexs.nl/pc.html "10 Extra Ip nummers Setup fl.50 Maandelijks fl.75,00 " are not acceptable? Take care, -- Ton.
Hi, On Fri, May 19, 2000 at 09:45:08PM +0200, Ton Engwirda wrote:
The european ISP community agreed that it is reasonable to charge an administrative fee for the services related to the assignment of IP address space, but that there should be no charge for the addresses as such. Please see the document 'Charging by Local Internet Registries' under the following URL for more details:
So fees like mentioned on
"10 Extra Ip nummers Setup fl.50 Maandelijks fl.75,00 "
are not acceptable?
No. IP numbers are not something you can buy. If you need them, you get them. If not, you should not be able get them, even if you are willing to spend gobs of money... Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- SpaceNet GmbH Mail: netmaster@Space.Net Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Tel : +49-89-32356-0 80807 Muenchen Fax : +49-89-32356-299
On Fri, May 19, 2000 at 09:45:08PM +0200, Ton Engwirda wrote:
On Thu, 18 May 2000, Mirjam Kuehne wrote:
The european ISP community agreed that it is reasonable to charge an administrative fee for the services related to the assignment of IP address space, but that there should be no charge for the addresses as such. Please see the document 'Charging by Local Internet Registries' under the following URL for more details:
So fees like mentioned on
"10 Extra Ip nummers Setup fl.50 Maandelijks fl.75,00 "
are not acceptable?
Depends on whom you ask :) Most people here will agree that the IP addresses should not cost anything but the mentionend administrative fee related to the assignment. However, an ISP may still charge you extra for actually routing these addresses. For example, each IP address can be the target of a Denial- of-Service-Attack, and the ISP might want to cover part of the risk with the extra fee. The ISP could also strive for conservation of IP address space and charge extra for IP addresses just to make sure that people only get as many IP addresses as they really need. A high initial fee might not be sufficient. And yes, I doubt that there are ISPs that follow this reasoning even when it sounds like a modern market- oriented method. Also, if you don't get assigned IP addresses yourself but if the ISP is using some from his own assignment (which may or may not be the correct way according to RIPE rules) then he is free to charge you whatever he wants, not for getting addresses assigned though (you don't get any), but for using his addresses. latter case. The extra IP addresses are a value adding feature of the product (== Webserver) and that's what adds to the price. Regards, -- i.A. Michael van Elst / phone: +49 721 9652 330 Xlink - Network Information Centre \/ fax: +49 721 9652 349 Emmy-Noether-Strasse 9 /\ link http://nic.xlink.net/ D-76131 Karlsruhe, Germany /_______ email: hostmaster@xlink.net [ KPNQwest Germany GmbH, Sitz Karlsruhe ] [ Amtsgericht Karlsruhe HRB 8161, Geschaeftsfuehrer: Koen Bertoen ]
participants (6)
-
David Knight -
Gert Doering -
Koen Breugelmans -
Michael van Elst -
Mirjam Kuehne -
Ton Engwirda