< rant > [ trying to clarify what i meant at the mic; but probably just digging a deeper hole ] i would not be up at 2am if i did not care about the CoC, DB, ... like you, i think these things are important. and the folk working on them are really good and nice and also care a lot (but i am already married). and they are working hard and really trying and usually succeeding in getting stuff done. so please tell us about it! the content, not the form/process. yes, i could join your mailing list, read your documents (i often do), ... but i have a life and two full-time jobs, and come to the plenary, WG, or whatever at 2am to get a high content summary. i stay up to 3am for content, not form. we are becoming humorless and fear based. i am thinking of making a generic Task Force Report slide deck, where it shows X meetings, Y consultations, Z surveys, and thanks for NCC support. you just put the TF's name at the top, plug in X, Y, and Z, and it's done! because i *care* about the subject, i *really* want to learn of the interesting issues that were found and how they were resolved. what issues remain? what did the TF learn that was unexpected? protein, not process. i trust you for the process, and really doubt you can make it interesting to me at 2am. yes, 42 engineers will have opinions on these; and half those opinions will be um, questionable. and some, such as this one, will be presented a bit roughly. sorry. welcome to a world filled with us funny monkeys. you did want input. and you get the big bucks for filtering and using it. but talk is cheap. how can i help TF folk to feel comfortable enough to put your content out? i just heard a svp of a massive net company ask their team and peers "what would you do if you were not afraid?" randy --- randy@psg.com `gpg --locate-external-keys --auto-key-locate wkd randy@psg.com` signatures are back, thanks to dmarc header butchery