Dear Nabeel and Colleagues,

On 25 Jul 2023, at 6:19, NABEEL YASIN MOHAMMED AMIN wrote:

> [Nabeel]
> Can you elaborate more about principle number 2:

Gladly.

> [Nabeel]
> I appreciate if you can provide some examples that lead to this recommendation

It would be difficult for me to do this, as the proposed document follows
from the RIPE Chair Selection Process of 2020 rather than from a series
of examples.

This process brought to light a number of concerns about the relationship
between RIPE and the RIPE NCC, which were discussed on the RIPE-list in a
thread starting with this message:
https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/ripe-chair-discuss/2020-May/000271.html

The discussion led the RIPE 2020 NomCom to include a recommendation in its
final report
(https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/ripe-list/2021-March/002170.html),
calling on the community to

> [NomCom 2020]
> Document [its] consensus on the relationship between RIPE and the RIPE NCC;
> in particular consensus how RIPE NCC staff can participate in RIPE including
> nominations for RIPE Chair.

The proposed document is focused on the second part of this recommendation.

I note that the proposed document ought to include a link to the NomCom's
final report, rather than simply mentioning it.  I am grateful to you,
Nabeel, for bringing to my attention that such a link is missing.

> [Nabeel]
> 2-In settings that provide guidance to the RIPE NCC, RIPE NCC staff shall
> take care both to disclose their position and to avoid giving direction.

I can elaborate further, but only by way of personal comment.  Except by
happy co-incidence, none of what follows is a matter of RIPE consensus.

As I see it, RIPE and the RIPE NCC have a mutually supportive relationship,
which is asymmetric.  The RIPE NCC acts as the secretariat to RIPE,
operates a regional Internet registry, and performs additional functions
as may be appropriate. It takes direction (or guidance) from RIPE at
both policy and technical levels, respectively through the Policy
Development Process (PDP) and the work-item (NWI) mechanism.

On the other hand, RIPE may need to depend on the RIPE NCC to provide
advice which it can use to inform any guidance it may wish to give to
the NCC. The second principle, requiring disclosure and "to avoid
giving direction" is intended to protect against the possibility of
"shaping" of RIPE's guidance by NCC staff, while allowing non-directive,
fact-based advice derived from available operational data, from ad-hoc
measurements, or from professional expertise.

I hope this helps.


Best regards,

Niall O'Reilly
RIPE VICE-Chair, co-author of the proposed document