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Re: Very fast IP, no ATM...
by Guy T Almes 24 Sep '96

24 Sep '96

Juha, Let me not speculate about all the various scenarios where the strengths and weaknesses of IP over ATM vs IP over SONET might vary. I addressed only the trans-oceanic very high delay-bandwidth product links, where I think the case is particularly strong. -- Guy At 11:11 AM 9/24/96 +0300, Juha Heinanen wrote: >when we talk about a link between two routers that will be saturated >immediately, atm doesn't give advantage over sonet. the situation >becomes different, when one wants to build a mesh network where the >traffic load betweeen the various nodes of the mesh varies and the >physical interface speed is fast enough to handle traffic between >several nodes simultaneously. > >-- juha >

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Re: Very fast IP, no ATM...
by Paul Christ 24 Sep '96

24 Sep '96

On Sep 23, 5:41pm, Christian Huitema wrote: > Subject: Re: Very fast IP, no ATM... > > Did anybody in the `integrated services packet network' camp > > claim: ************************************************************************ * * * We can run the world-wide telephone system say by IPv6 * * > > over SDH? * * > * * > What make you believe we could not ? * * > * * > -- * * > Christian Huitema * * * ************************************************************************ Hereby I formally declare Christian THE Ultimate Internet Prophet Don't miss to deposit his visionary statement in a safe place. Artigst Paul Christ :-)

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Re: Very fast IP, no ATM...
by Guy T Almes 24 Sep '96

24 Sep '96

Paul, I welcome your observation. The role of ATM in the Internet is a properly controversial one, and I'm sure the final page is not written. My point was intended to be narrow. I assume that the purpose of the trans-oceanic links is to effectively carry Internet traffic of a nature similar to usual Internet traffic. Given the very high price generally attached by carriers to T3 (and higher speed) leased lines, one is tempted to use ATM (particularly if it's priced lower). Many of the problems in the use of ATM to support Internet traffic become *especially* bad when one tries to support large delay-bandwidth products with traffic that is often quite bursty. This is often the case with such projects at the link that Peter described. When you consider a number of successes in the use of ATM in the Internet, such as the use of ATM within the MCI backbone here in the states, you will see that: - IP over ATM *can* be done correctly, particularly if one avoids overcommitting the bandwidth of the link, and - one often finds that IP over ATM is used when it's the only way to provision links faster than T3. One of the things that pleases me about the OC3 link that Peter announced this morning is that we may now find that there are (at least) two ways that engineers can consider in provisioning links faster than T3: IP over ATM and IP over SONET/SDH. As both alternatives become mature, we can begin to really compare which works best in various cases. Regards, -- Guy p.s.: I was specifically not trying to address the issue of 'world- wide telephone systems'. At 08:50 PM 9/23/96 +0200, Paul Christ wrote: >Hi, all of you, > >ok, congratulation, 'no ATM' - but: > >Don't you feel sometimes in all this fine argumentation against ATM >a certain intellektuelle Unredlichkeit (intellectual dishonesty)? > >Why? > >'ATM said' from the beginning: We can do everything - the >telephone system, eventually the video distribution and data. > >Did anybody in the `integrated services packet network' camp >claim: We can run the world-wide telephone system say by IPv6 >over SDH? > >(or would this be a non-goal?, or do we say, ATM also > wouldn't run the phone system, and so on; > years ago we had IBM's > packet transfer mode ... and so on) > > >Yours > > >Paul Christ > > >------------------------------------ >On Sep 23, 10:26am, Guy T Almes wrote: >> Subject: Re: Very fast IP, no ATM... >> Peter, >> Congratulations. This pleases me greatly. >> The success of the January 1994 trans-pacific T3 link from California >> to Hawaii by ANS was, in part, also due to taking advantage of direct >> IP over T3 frames. >> -- Guy >> p.s.: have you any measures of IP-level throughput over this link? >> >> >> At 03:43 AM 9/23/96 DST, Peter Lothberg wrote: >> > >> >On Monday 23 September 1996 00:15Z.. >> > >> >Was the worlds first transatlantic 155Mbit native IP service brought into >> >operation by Sprint/USA and Tele2/Sweden. >> > >> >The circiut wich is part of Sprintlink and ICMnet runs between the >> >NY-Nap in Pennsauken, NJ, USA and Tele2 in Sweden and uses cisco >> >packet-over-sonet/sdh technology. (Native IP over SDH/VC4) >> > >> >In 1995 the same team from Sprint and Tele2 brought up the worlds first >> >transatlantic E3 service between the same endpoints. >> > >> >For more information; >> > >> >Sprint: Tricia Schibler, +1 703 904 2042, ><tricia.schibler(a)qm.sprintcorp.com> >> >Tele2: Olle Wallner, +46 8 5626 4058, <wallner(a)swip.net> >> > >> >--Peter >> > >> >>-- End of excerpt from Guy T Almes > >

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Web Caching Survey
by Wojtek Sylwestrzak 24 Sep '96

24 Sep '96

Hello, This is just a short reminder for those of you who saw the survey, decided to fill it out later it and then forgot. The survey URL is http://w3cache.icm.edu.pl/survey/ Many thanks to those who already filled it out. We are getting plenty of responses - in fact more than we expected. The first results will be published shortly. Thanks, --wojtek

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Re: Very fast IP, no ATM...
by huitema＠bellcore.com 23 Sep '96

23 Sep '96

> Did anybody in the `integrated services packet network' camp > claim: We can run the world-wide telephone system say by IPv6 > over SDH? What make you believe we could not ? -- Christian Huitema

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Re: Very fast IP, no ATM...
by Paul Christ 23 Sep '96

23 Sep '96

Hi, all of you, ok, congratulation, 'no ATM' - but: Don't you feel sometimes in all this fine argumentation against ATM a certain intellektuelle Unredlichkeit (intellectual dishonesty)? Why? 'ATM said' from the beginning: We can do everything - the telephone system, eventually the video distribution and data. Did anybody in the `integrated services packet network' camp claim: We can run the world-wide telephone system say by IPv6 over SDH? (or would this be a non-goal?, or do we say, ATM also wouldn't run the phone system, and so on; years ago we had IBM's packet transfer mode ... and so on) Yours Paul Christ ------------------------------------ On Sep 23, 10:26am, Guy T Almes wrote: > Subject: Re: Very fast IP, no ATM... > Peter, > Congratulations. This pleases me greatly. > The success of the January 1994 trans-pacific T3 link from California > to Hawaii by ANS was, in part, also due to taking advantage of direct > IP over T3 frames. > -- Guy > p.s.: have you any measures of IP-level throughput over this link? > > > At 03:43 AM 9/23/96 DST, Peter Lothberg wrote: > > > >On Monday 23 September 1996 00:15Z.. > > > >Was the worlds first transatlantic 155Mbit native IP service brought into > >operation by Sprint/USA and Tele2/Sweden. > > > >The circiut wich is part of Sprintlink and ICMnet runs between the > >NY-Nap in Pennsauken, NJ, USA and Tele2 in Sweden and uses cisco > >packet-over-sonet/sdh technology. (Native IP over SDH/VC4) > > > >In 1995 the same team from Sprint and Tele2 brought up the worlds first > >transatlantic E3 service between the same endpoints. > > > >For more information; > > > >Sprint: Tricia Schibler, +1 703 904 2042, <tricia.schibler(a)qm.sprintcorp.com> > >Tele2: Olle Wallner, +46 8 5626 4058, <wallner(a)swip.net> > > > >--Peter > > > >-- End of excerpt from Guy T Almes

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Re: Very fast IP, no ATM...
by Guy T Almes 23 Sep '96

23 Sep '96

Peter, Congratulations. This pleases me greatly. The success of the January 1994 trans-pacific T3 link from California to Hawaii by ANS was, in part, also due to taking advantage of direct IP over T3 frames. -- Guy p.s.: have you any measures of IP-level throughput over this link? At 03:43 AM 9/23/96 DST, Peter Lothberg wrote: > >On Monday 23 September 1996 00:15Z.. > >Was the worlds first transatlantic 155Mbit native IP service brought into >operation by Sprint/USA and Tele2/Sweden. > >The circiut wich is part of Sprintlink and ICMnet runs between the >NY-Nap in Pennsauken, NJ, USA and Tele2 in Sweden and uses cisco >packet-over-sonet/sdh technology. (Native IP over SDH/VC4) > >In 1995 the same team from Sprint and Tele2 brought up the worlds first >transatlantic E3 service between the same endpoints. > >For more information; > >Sprint: Tricia Schibler, +1 703 904 2042, <tricia.schibler(a)qm.sprintcorp.com> >Tele2: Olle Wallner, +46 8 5626 4058, <wallner(a)swip.net> > >--Peter >

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Very fast IP, no ATM...
by Peter Lothberg 23 Sep '96

23 Sep '96

On Monday 23 September 1996 00:15Z.. Was the worlds first transatlantic 155Mbit native IP service brought into operation by Sprint/USA and Tele2/Sweden. The circiut wich is part of Sprintlink and ICMnet runs between the NY-Nap in Pennsauken, NJ, USA and Tele2 in Sweden and uses cisco packet-over-sonet/sdh technology. (Native IP over SDH/VC4) In 1995 the same team from Sprint and Tele2 brought up the worlds first transatlantic E3 service between the same endpoints. For more information; Sprint: Tricia Schibler, +1 703 904 2042, <tricia.schibler(a)qm.sprintcorp.com> Tele2: Olle Wallner, +46 8 5626 4058, <wallner(a)swip.net> --Peter

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RIPE24: Draft Minutes available: ripe-m-24
by RIPE NCC 18 Sep '96

18 Sep '96

RIPE Minutes Announcement ------------------------- The final version of the RIPE24 minutes are now available from the RIPE document store : ripe-m-24 24th meeting 1996 April DFN/TU - Berlin The change since the first draft versions are: - Minutes from Netnews WG incorporated - Last paragraph to '10.2.4.1. RIPE-104' added FTP Access ---------- All RIPE minutes (and more) are available via anonymous FTP from host ftp.ripe.net. Type "ftp ftp.ripe.net". Login with username "anonymous" supplying your email address as the password. After logging in, type "cd ripe/minutes/" followed by the command "get filename". The relevant filenames for this document are: ripe-m-24.txt for the ASCII version ripe-m-24.ps for the PostScript version Electronic Mail Retrieval of Documents -------------------------------------- Documents can also be retrieved from the RIPE document store using a mail server program. For more information on how to use the program, send email to: mail-server(a)ripe.net with "send HELP" in the body text. RIPE NCC Interactive Information Server --------------------------------------- Type "telnet info.ripe.net". This is a menu driven service allows the document store to be browsed. After reading documents you are prompted as to whether you would like to receive an email copy of the document you have just read. If you would, you simply enter your email address and the document will be mailed to you. Below are details of alternative methods of access. WWW Access ---------- For those who wish to add this home page at the RIPE NCC to their own customized home pages, it can be accessed as: http://www.ripe.net MIME Mail Reader ---------------- Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant Mail Reader implementation to automatically retrieve the RIPE document by FTP or mail server. SEND ripe/minutes/ripe-m-24.txt

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REIP@%: Dinner announcement
by RIPE NCC Staff 13 Sep '96

13 Sep '96

ANNOUNCEMENT: 25th RIPE Meeting Dinner Time: Tuesday, September 24th 1996 20:00 Venue: De Waag Nieuwmarkt Amsterdam Price: Dfl 45,- Last date for reservations: Monday, September 23rd, at the RIPE meeting (Although you can also subscribe at the meeting, we would appreciate you sending in the form below, especially if you have a 'special diet description' to fill in.) Directions to venue: The restaurant is in the centre of Amsterdam, very near to Amsterdam Central Station. From Central Station you can walk to Nieuwmarkt via "Zeedijk" and via "Gelderse kade". You can also take the metro, exit one stop after Central Station. For information about Nieuwmarkt and de Waag you can take a look at: http://www.channels.nl/nieuwmar.html and http://www.waag.org History of de Waag: No less than 169 'waags', or weighing-houses have been built in the Netherlands, but only one still stands in the heart of Amsterdam, surrounded by a complex grid of canals and streets, right on the 'New Market'. This stout two-storey structure was built in 1488 as town entrance and together with the Haarlem gate (Haarlemmerpoort) was considered the strongest of Amsterdam's tower entrances. With it's heavy stone walls, large gates and the acoustics of a castle, the Middle-Ages are still tangible in De Waag. It is a place where now, after five hundred years, food and drink can be enjoyed in a flamboyant, Bourgondian manner. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Menu: Home made pate with cornichons Codfish with safron-saus Salad of watercress, preserved cucumber, apple and almonds *** Lambshank stewed in tomato Tartelet with aubergine and tomato Pan with mussels stewed in beer *** Cheese plate Warm applepie with cinammon icecream "Esdoorn" walnut icecream -------------------------------------------------------------------------- For reservations please fill in the following form and return it to <meeting(a)ripe.net>. Don't delete the special keywords starting with % sign and type your answers between the square brackets. Multiple lines are allowed. %START 1) Your name %NAME [ ] 2) Your e-mail address %EMAIL [ ] 3) Please indicate if you have special dietary needs. If you specify something here, you probably don't have to answer question 4. (Note that vegetarians don't have to fill this in, as there are vegetarian menu options.) You can use more lines as long as the description starts and ends with a bracket. %SDIET [ ] 4) Please decide on the menu that you will (probably) choose, because we will have to give the restaurant estimates in advance. Please remove 2 of the 3 given options from the line. %MENU1 [ pate / codfish / salad ] %MENU2 [ lambshank / tartelet / mussels ] %MENU3 [ cheeseplate / applepie / icecream ] %END

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