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The NCC Web Site
by Carol Orange 16 Jul '96

16 Jul '96

We'd like to take a minute to respond to the comments posted in the last few days about the new Web site. Some of the comments were not sent to the ripe-list, only to one or two people here. First of all, we want to thank those of you who have sent in comments for your interest in the site. We are sorry for the teething troubles and appreciative of your patience. 1. Access Although we chose to use frames in the browsers that support them, the web site was designed from the outset to be accessible by simple browsers such as Lynx. Unfortunately, the automatic selection had a flaw that prevented access by browsers which did not allow one to load another page directly. For those of you who could not reach the site because there was no support for no-frame browsers during the weekend, you might like to know that immediately following the launch, we were fair and impartial :-). Our web site was inaccessible regardless of your browser. At this point, the web site should be accessible with whatever browser you are using. Certainly there was never an intention to prevent access to the site with non-Netscape browsers. If at any point, you find you can't access our web site with an arbitrary browser, please let us know. It is most definitely not by design. 2. Content We are glad to hear that most people find the information available on the web site to be of use. We hope to keep it that way and hope that you won't hesitate to inform us when new information would be useful. 2.1 List of documents We've been asked to put titles next to the list of ripe-xxx document names. We've also been asked to list the documents in a table, so the entire list can be viewed without scrolling. Both of these views will be supported in the near future. 2.2 RFC Access There's been a suggestion that the RFCs should be accessible from our web site. While the RFC's are still accessible via our ftp server, we've not put pointers to them on our web site. This should not be difficult and we will be happy to do so if there is sufficient interest. Please send a note to webmaster(a)ripe.net if this service would be of use to you. 3. Frames/No Frames Controversy That is the question. The decision to incorporate the use of frames in the design of the RIPE NCC web site was based on carefully weighted user interface design principles. It was influenced by the response to the survey posted on our old web site in which the vast majority of respondents indicated that they would happily wait a little longer if it would result in a more easily navigated web site. Except for the trouble with moving between frames which works differently than moving between pages, we believed that using frames would enable easy navigation. Another principle applied throughout the design of the site was "keep it simple". The graphics are minimal and consistent throughout. This was so the web page would load quickly. The graphics that appear beyond the home page are the same as those on the home page, and are therefore only loaded when the site is first accessed. We also consider it essential that important information stand out rather than that our site be "glossy". Because the discussions on the ripe list in the last couple of days indicate that a number of people who access the site would greatly appreciate a more minimal design (e.g. the text only version), we will take steps to ease access to the no-frames version. In addition to a (to-be-included) no-frames button on the menubar of the site, the no-frames version of the site is now also available in: http://www.ripe.net/noframes.html This is for those who want the no-frames version when the automatic selection process would give them the framed version by default. As stated by Daniel in an earlier message: There were basically three choices we could make: 1) Determine the browser's capabilities and choose a version accordingly. 2) Always show a selection page for the user before showing the home page. 3) Always show the non-fancy home page with a selection button to choose the fancy version. In the coming months we will examine access statistics to find out how much different pages are accessed. In general, the results will be used to determine what modifications might make the site more useful. If the no-frames version of the home page is sufficiently popular, we will make it the default, and make the framed version accessible via a button on the home page and another URL. Anyone with views on this subject is encouraged to send them to webmaster(a)ripe.net. They will be collected and considered together with the statistics in the next couple of months. 4. Navigating in Frames As noted in other mails, the right mouse button can be used to move back in frames. As also noted, this does not work 100% of the time. 5. The Documents Currently we are still smoothing out some minor formatting problems in the document pages. Moreover, it seems the Reference section has been stripped off ripe-136. Both problems are being pursued at this time. That's it for now. Please keep us informed of any problems you have. Kind regards, Carol Orange - RIPE NCC Web Site Coordinator Lee Wilmot - RIPE NCC Web Master

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Re: Web Site Launch
by Christian Panigl, ACOnet/UniVie +43 1 4065822-383 16 Jul '96

16 Jul '96

>Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 10:23:05 +0200 >From: Berthold Paffrath <bp(a)nic.dtag.de> > >My problem is, as with all these new frame-based web sites: If I follow >some links up to "Registries ordered by country code", then select one >of these - how do I go "one page back" to the overview? The "<-" button >of netscape just leads me to the previous non-framed web site... >This might be a netscape bug, but it seems that explicit "back" buttons >would be helpful until the bug gets fixed :-) My problem is, as with all these flame-based web sites ... Even http://www.netscape.com/ shows its home-page to poor man's browsers, why can't the RIPE-NCC ? I always thought the RIPE-NCC is a technical network coordination centre whose info's should be accessible as broadly as possible and not a shopping-mall for Netscape shareholders (sorry for this one ;-} Please make your info-site "Lynx"able again, and make all Java/Frames and other "kinky" features optional ! My personal opinion, anyway, always interested in others of course ! Christian

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Re: Web Site Launch
by Denis.Russell＠ncl.ac.uk 15 Jul '96

15 Jul '96

At 9:22 am 15/7/96, Carl Malamud [IMS] wrote: >Folks ... >... >Seems to me that the secretariat worked very hard and did a >wonderful job.... Carl, You are absolutely right!! Nit picking is easy, but not nearly as easy as forgetting to say thanks for the work itself. All of us in various kinds of service organization *should* remember that, but I guess we each get trained in nit-picking by our "customers". :-( So, a big "Thankyou" for the new site. It is a job well done and I do appreciate it. Denis.

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Re: Web Site Launch
by Denis.Russell＠ncl.ac.uk 15 Jul '96

15 Jul '96

At 10:23 am 15/7/96, Berthold Paffrath wrote: >... >My problem is, <...> - how do I go "one page back" to the overview?... I agree, and sent in a similar comment! Denis.

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RE: Web Site Launch
by Christian Panigl, ACOnet/UniVie +43 1 4065822-383 15 Jul '96

15 Jul '96

Hi Daniel and Carol, first of all, thank you, it's working now ! I just tried it again with (some really outdated) Mosaic, EnhancedMosaic and Lynx versions and always got a nice and readable standard HTML-homepage ! >There were basically three choices we could make: > >1) Determine the browser's capabilities and choose a version accordingly. Nice, but didn't work properly until recently. It's OK now. >2) Always show a selection page for the user before showing the home page not very elegant >3) Always show the non-fancy home page with a selection button to choose > the fancy version. not very elegant either, however, preferrable over the other way around ;-) >You seem to favour option three. This one did not fall well with those that >argued our site should look flashy and we whould show off all the design >work we did. :-). I don't ! I'm just favouring reliably working solutions ! As long as option one is falling into this category it's perfectly OK with me ! Regards, Christian

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Web Site Launch
by Carol Orange 15 Jul '96

15 Jul '96

*** Live from the edge of Amsterdam *** The new RIPE NCC Web Site http://www.ripe.net will be officially launched today July 12, 1996 at 16.00 hours! Have a look. Make yourself at home. As with any new Web Site, there are still a few rough spots. Please bear with us as we iron them out. We hope the new site makes information you need easily accessible. Your comments and suggestions are most certainly welcome. Please send them to: webmaster(a)ripe.net. Greetings from the staff of the RIPE NCC. -- Carol Orange

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Re: Bitrate tax.
by Denis.Russell＠ncl.ac.uk 04 Jul '96

04 Jul '96

At 2:26 pm 12/6/96, Eric Luyten wrote: >(NOT a joke) > >The Belgian Minister for Telecommunications came up with the idea of >introducing a "bitrate tax" on information transmission. ... ><double sigh> >Eric. Communications Week International for 24th June runs the story in page 3: "Electric levy could mean a taxing time for Belgians" by Camille Mendler. The writer tries to fan the embers of a story into a fire by the likes of "...cynics contend that it is no coincidence that Di Rupo (credited with inventing the tax) is from the southern French-speaking region (...) the tax is simply a ruse to bring financial relief into the largely rural region". They clearly havn't heard of the *advantage* that telematics can bring to rural regions and that such regions are disadvantaged by high cost. Again "...analysts insist that monitoring data could be interpreted as an invasion of privacy under current EC laws". Clearly they havn't been following the attempts by the EC to insist on a Euro-Clipper chip. Ho hum. :-( Denis.

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error in previous hostcount mail
by Mirjam Kuehne 03 Jul '96

03 Jul '96

Hi all, An error has crept in the hostcount I've just sent out: The SK domain showed 0 hosts (and even in the wrong column ;) I counted the SK again and the results had some influence on the totals. I'll attach the whole table again. The table now shows an increase since last month of over 170,000 (or 6.3%) to a total of over 2,900,000 hosts in the DNS in Europe. It also slipped my mind that we past another Quarter: During the last three month the number of hosts in the European showed a total increase of 17.1% If you have further questions (or spot more errors ;), please don't hesitate to contact me. Kind regards, Mirjam Kuehne RIPE NCC RIPE DNS Hostcount Previous Count : Fri May 31 1996 This Count : Mon Jun 30 1996 CY SOA COUNTED DUPL REAL CHANGE ============================================================ al 5 78 0 78 - 1 am 6 129 7 122 + 6 at 2174 80365 6611 73754 + 4303 az 3 16 0 16 0 be 2210 43946 1919 42027 + 2727 bg 94 2071 86 1985 + 151 by 14 128 2 126 + 27 ch 3287 107616 4403 103213 + 3809 cy 91 929 14 915 + 219 cz 816 33064 725 32339 + 1941 de 13424 603759 27463 576296 +32152 dk 1882 78554 3622 74932 + 5878 dz 2 18 0 18 + 2 ee 311 6617 203 6414 + 704 eg 25 834 9 825 + 22 es 2090 80537 1271 79266 + 2689 fi 2242 300397 4877 295520 +25211 fo 20 75 0 75 + 54 fr 3844 192085 5384 186701 +18671 gb 2 40 0 40 0 ge 10 114 1 113 + 21 gr 503 12846 727 12119 + 956 hr 277 3662 703 2959 - 239 hu 633 25733 547 25186 + 1505 ie 839 20933 331 20602 + 1877 il 1143 40092 2549 37543 - 1291 is 174 10476 95 10381 + 232 it 4957 121306 9643 111663 + 5207 li 36 124 16 108 + 27 lt 80 1259 9 1250 + 37 lu 158 2829 59 2770 + 288 lv 98 4482 111 4371 + 377 ma 12 345 10 335 - 2 md 10 10 0 10 + 2 mk 14 163 17 146 + 13 mt 32 473 86 387 + 29 nl 4540 214692 4419 210273 + 4885 no 3447 121776 4895 116881 + 5953 pl 1104 39947 1558 38389 + 1998 pt 507 15887 372 15515 + 1199 ro 275 3685 158 3527 + 259 ru 1225 32895 2404 30491 + 9071 se 6016 193416 8483 184933 + 6367 si 390 9475 785 8690 - 216 sk 200 4928 191 4737 + 73 sm 9 432 190 242 + 42 su 484 14331 692 13639 + 332 tn 3 45 4 41 - 5 tr 334 10998 285 10713 + 925 ua 182 4397 745 3652 - 506 uk 20219 619716 57062 562654 +32122 va 2 3 0 3 0 yu 53 1082 24 1058 + 949 ============================================================ 80510 3063810 153783 2910043 +171052

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Hostcount for June 1996
by Mirjam Kuehne 03 Jul '96

03 Jul '96

Dear all, Here is the hostcount for June 1996. The table shows an increase since last month of over 160,000 (or 6.1%) to a total of over 2,900,000 hosts in the DNS in Europe. DE shows the highest increase for June with more than 32,000 hosts more than in May. The hostcount can also be found under ftp://ftp.ripe.net/ripe/hostcount. The graphical version of the hostcount can be found at ftp://ftp.ripe.net/ripe/hostcount/RIPE-Hostcount-{Mo,Qu}.eps The translation of the country codes can be found at ftp://ftp.ripe.net/iso3166-countrycodes I would like to thank all people who help me to create the hostcount every month by counting hosts locally: at Gerhard Winkler <winkler(a)cc.univie.ac.at> be Herman Moons <Herman.Moons(a)CS.kuleuven.ac.be> ch Christoph Graf <graf(a)chx400.switch.ch> cy Panagiotis Tzounakis <pj(a)ics.forth.gr> cz Jiri Orsag <Jiri.Orsag(a)eunet.cz> de Peter Koch <pk(a)TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE> dk Robert Martin-Legene <robert(a)dknet.dk> es Jose Sanchez-Seco <jose.sanchez(a)rediris.es> fi Petri Ojala <ojala(a)eunet.fi> fr Annie Renard <Annie.Renard(a)inria.fr> gr Dimitris Zisiadis <zisiadis(a)forthnet.gr> hr Ivan Maric <Ivan.Maric(a)stribor.srce.hr> hu Gabor Kiss <kissg(a)sztaki.hu> ie Mike Norris <mnorris(a)dalkey.hea.ie> il Sason Levi <sason(a)NetVision.net.il> it Antonio_Blasco Bonito <bonito(a)nis.garr.it> no Havard Eidnes <Havard.Eidnes(a)runit.sintef.no> pl Irek Neska <irek(a)nask.pl> pt Armando Domingues <fccn(a)dns.pt> ru Andrey Dobrotsvetov <adbr(a)ripen.net> sk Ivan Lescak <Ivan.Lescak(a)Slovakia.EU.net> Lubos Elias <Lubos.Elias(a)uakom.sk> sm Antonio_Blasco Bonito <bonito(a)nis.garr.it> tr Yener Yigit <yener(a)knidos.cc.metu.edu.tr> uk Kevin Hoadley <K.Hoadley(a)nosc.ja.net> If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to contact me. Kind regards, Mirjam Kuehne RIPE NCC RIPE DNS Hostcount Previous Count : Fri May 31 1996 This Count : Mon Jun 30 1996 CY SOA COUNTED DUPL REAL CHANGE ============================================================ al 5 78 0 78 - 1 am 6 129 7 122 + 6 at 2174 80365 6611 73754 + 4303 az 3 16 0 16 0 be 2210 43946 1919 42027 + 2727 bg 94 2071 86 1985 + 151 by 14 128 2 126 + 27 ch 3287 107616 4403 103213 + 3809 cy 91 929 14 915 + 219 cz 816 33064 725 32339 + 1941 de 13424 603759 27463 576296 +32152 dk 1882 78554 3622 74932 + 5878 dz 2 18 0 18 + 2 ee 311 6617 203 6414 + 704 eg 25 834 9 825 + 22 es 2090 80537 1271 79266 + 2689 fi 2242 300397 4877 295520 +25211 fo 20 75 0 75 + 54 fr 3844 192085 5384 186701 +18671 gb 2 40 0 40 0 ge 10 114 1 113 + 21 gr 503 12846 727 12119 + 956 hr 277 3662 703 2959 - 239 hu 633 25733 547 25186 + 1505 ie 839 20933 331 20602 + 1877 il 1143 40092 2549 37543 - 1291 is 174 10476 95 10381 + 232 it 4957 121306 9643 111663 + 5207 li 36 124 16 108 + 27 lt 80 1259 9 1250 + 37 lu 158 2829 59 2770 + 288 lv 98 4482 111 4371 + 377 ma 12 345 10 335 - 2 md 10 10 0 10 + 2 mk 14 163 17 146 + 13 mt 32 473 86 387 + 29 nl 4540 214692 4419 210273 + 4885 no 3447 121776 4895 116881 + 5953 pl 1104 39947 1558 38389 + 1998 pt 507 15887 372 15515 + 1199 ro 275 3685 158 3527 + 259 ru 1225 32895 2404 30491 + 9071 se 6016 193416 8483 184933 + 6367 si 390 9475 785 8690 - 216 sk 197 4872 208 0 - 4664 sm 9 432 190 242 + 42 su 484 14331 692 13639 + 332 tn 3 45 4 41 - 5 tr 334 10998 285 10713 + 925 ua 182 4397 745 3652 - 506 uk 20219 619716 57062 562654 +32122 va 2 3 0 3 0 yu 53 1082 24 1058 + 949 ============================================================ 80507 3063754 153784 2905306 +166315

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RE: Please help: ptp links addresses
by Turff, Jeremy, TURFFJW 28 Jun '96

28 Jun '96

Dear Antonio We are using frame relay with Cisco routers. In our case we have used multipoint sub-interfaces. (note that multipoint has to be specified at both ends, you cannot combine point-to-point and multipoint) This has been used with a star configuration network where all of the user sites are connected to the central hub site over frame relay. This means that we do not need a subnet for each remote site which saves a lot of networks and means that we can use dual routers at the central hub site (with dual PVCs to provide resilience) and still get 250 user sites connected for each class C network number. I discussed this type of configuration on frame relay at a Cisco training course and it appears that few people are aware that this works. Hope this helps with frame relay - I cannot see it being of any use on point-to-point links, but will think about it's possible use on channelised ones cheers - Jeremy Jeremy Turff World Insurance Network Telephone +44 171 777 7621 ---------- From: owner-lir-wg[SMTP:owner-lir-wg@ripe.net] Sent: 25 June 1996 13:44 To: Antonio_Blasco Bonito Cc: lir-wg Subject: Re: Please help: ptp links addresses At 13:15 25/06/96 DST, Antonio_Blasco Bonito wrote: >Dear Local Registries, > > >I need some advice on the following: > >An italian ISP, which we run its delegated LIR, is planning its >backbone network where there are *A LOT* of point-to-point links (on >leased lines, on channelized lines, on Frame Relay PVCs, etc.). > >I know about two ways of managing the links in terms of IP addresses: > >1- using a /30 subnet for each link: > in this way both ends of the link have a unique address (binary > 01 and 10), but two addresses (binary 00 and 11) cannot be used, > so 50% of the address space used is wasted. This should be > avoided if possible because the address space required is > really large. > >2- using unnumbered interfaces for each link and, on cisco routers, > associating another interface IP address (the loopback interface > is quite useful for this purpose): > in this way addresses are not wasted but certain functionalities > are lost, i.e. SNMP monitoring of each physical interface, etc. > > >Are you aware of any other way to deal with this issue so that it >is possible to have IP addresses for each interface without wasting >address space? > >Thank you very much in advance. Of course ! You can use RFC1597 addresses which are routed only in your domain, so that your SNMP managers can reach each Interface. The problem is for somebody from the outside wanting to address the interface (which is frequent with tools like traceroute), who will not see any answers from your routers. Anyway, this is a good solution if you want access to your interfaces only from you domain (and, as a side effect, it increase security on your routers). We are currently using this scheme for our ISDN links. Regards, -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> /Jean-Francois "Jef" Stenuit | Interpac Belgium NV/SA | Solaris 2.x \ \Internet administrator | 350/358 Avenue Louise Box 11 | Cisco / /Phone (32)(2) 646-6000 | B-1050 Brussels | Netblazer \ \Fax (32)(2) 640-3638 | Belgium | / /Email stenuit(a)interpac.be | | expert ... \ <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< <<

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