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Closing Discussion [was: A frank discussion]
by Mirjam Kuehne 31 Oct '22

31 Oct '22

Dear all, I don’t see any new arguments or new information in the recent mails sent on this topic. Everything has been said. I am closing this discussion now. Kind regards, Mirjam Kühne RIPE Chair and RIPE List Moderator

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A frank discussion
by Lu Heng 29 Oct '22

29 Oct '22

Dear RIPE community and RIPE NCC members: You may be well aware of RIPE NCC management's refusal to acknowledge the serious governance issue in AFRINIC and the fact that the management keeps involving itself closely with governmental bodies, ever since the miscarriage of their NRO letter to make AFRINIC a specialized agency of United Nations. Recently, during the ITU Conference, it is said that the RIPE NCC management team seemed to have approached the American government and European Union government as a means to interfere with the ongoing matters. As someone who has had engaged closely with the community for many years, I believe it is of utmost importance for the community to be aware of the seriousness of the matter, and a frank discussion is more than necessary in the upcoming RIPE meeting. For RIPE NCC to make their case of seems deep interference with government and for me to exchange with the community any views and differences. My dispute with AFRINIC (despite it is sub-judice), is essentially a "policy dispute" between members of RIR and the RIR management. Court pocceding is also part of bottom up community driven process when the dispute can not be resolved amicably. However, NRO's request to make RIR an ITU-like body, and RIPE NCC's apparent consistent engagement with government officials to interfere in the matter, I think it is high time for the community to be aware of, discuss and decide whether such involvement is proper in a community driven, bottom-up registry who has been independent of governmental influences for more than three decades I have submitted an lighting talk for the plenary and got rejected. I have attached the rejection letter here for your perusal. It is disconcerting to me because the matter is of utmost urgency and importance for the community and the RIR system. The purpose of the current letter is to re-state my intention of an open, frank, heart-to-heart discussion with the community. I will appreciate if any working group chair can pick up the subject and do an BoF during the working group sessions. I believe the graveness of the issue requires such a discussion - transparency and accountability are the two core values of this community. Here is the letter I received: Dear Lu Heng, We regret to inform you that your Lightning Talk submission for RIPE 85 titled 'A difficult reality' has not been accepted into the Plenary session. >From the PC's perspective the presentation does not fit the RIPE plenary. If your submission refers to the role of the RIPE NCC, then we suggest the NCC Services WG as the appropriate venue to start this discussion. If you want to have a discussion about the RIPE community as a policy making body, then we feel the RIPE community plenary is the right place to go. Thank you, Franziska Lichtblau on behalf of the Programme Committee My reply: Hi The presentation is about ripe community’s view on current actions taken by NRO and RIPE NCC. The matter is extremely serious and I believe ripe community should be aware. And yes, this is about where boundaries of ripe community policy making and how many people should be aware and participate community. I feel current ripe community is not truly inclusive enough for every internet user aware. I think best we have a frank discussion and inform the community, rather have me go to some channels of communication, and community might feel not informed and asking why. And THIS IS REALLY NOT ABOUT NCC SERVICE. If PC have future questions welcome to send me zoom link to discuss. Lu Heng Chief Executive Officer LARUS Limited Email H.Lu@LARUS.netmailto:a.yan@outsideheaven.com Office tel:+852+29888918 Address A3, 11/F, TML Tower, Tsuen Wan, N.T, Hong Kong SAR Website: LARUS.net This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.

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NRO NC Election Result
by Hans Petter Holen 28 Oct '22

28 Oct '22

Dear colleagues, We are pleased to announce that James Kennedy was re-elected to the Number Resource Organization Number Council (NRO NC) at the elections held during RIPE 85 (24-28 October 2022). James will serve a three-year term starting on 1 January 2023 and ending on 31 December 2025. Details on the election process and the NRO NC are available at: https://www.ripe.net/nro-nc/nominations-oct-2022/ We would like to congratulate James on his appointment! Kind regards, Hans Petter Holen Managing Director RIPE NCC

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Re: [ripe-list] [members-discuss] A frank discussion
by Lu Heng 28 Oct '22

28 Oct '22

Hi Alex: See inline: Lu Heng Chief Executive Officer LARUS Limited Email H.Lu@LARUS.netmailto:a.yan@outsideheaven.com Office tel:+852+29888918 Address A3, 11/F, TML Tower, Tsuen Wan, N.T, Hong Kong SAR Website: LARUS.net This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. ---- On Thu, 27 Oct 2022 21:00:11 +0800 Alex Le Heux <aleheux(a)tucowsinc.com> wrote --- What I support: - The RIPE NCC cooperating with other governance structures in the world. - The RIPE NCC taking any action it deems neccessary to safeguard the RIR system from outside threats and support other RIRs in their proper functioning. Asking RIR to be specialised agency of the united nation is none of above, unless you consider give RIR leadership immunity in order to escape community scrutiny is "protecting RIR system from outside threats". What I do not support: - Continued attempts by some members to gaslight the RIPE NCC into not doing the above. Revealing the attempt by RIR leadership to give up community to the united nation is not gaslighting RIPE NCC not doing above as well. It called Whistleblowing. If Community indeed want to be specialised agency of the united nation collectively, it is not up to me to make such decision, I would not agree, but if this indeed is the community position, we can be open and transparent about it. Keep confusing the community on "giving up community for governmental control" with "cooperation with governmental body", is not helping here. Alex Le Heux _______________________________________________ members-discuss mailing list mailto:members-discuss@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss Unsubscribe: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/h.lu%40larus.net

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Re: [ripe-list] [members-discuss] A frank discussion
by Sander Steffann 28 Oct '22

28 Oct '22

Hi, > On 27 Oct 2022, at 15:00, Alex Le Heux <aleheux(a)tucowsinc.com> wrote: > > What I support: > > - The RIPE NCC cooperating with other governance structures in the world. > - The RIPE NCC taking any action it deems neccessary to safeguard the RIR system from outside threats and support other RIRs in their proper functioning. > > What I do not support: > > - Continued attempts by some members to gaslight the RIPE NCC into not doing the above. Thank you for summarising this, +1 Cheers, Sander

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RIPE 85 Highlights - Day 4
by RIPE NCC Event Team 28 Oct '22

28 Oct '22

Dear colleagues, Thursday was the second and last day of the RIPE Working Group sessions – you can find some highlights from the day at: https://ripe85.ripe.net/programme/blog/ Today we continue with several plenary sessions and lightning talks followed by the Closing Plenary. The meeting will close at 12:30 (UTC+2). You can find the meeting plan at: https://ripe85.ripe.net/programme/meeting-plan/ Stay tuned for what’s happening at RIPE 85 by following @ripemeeting on Twitter and using the #RIPE85 hashtag. Kind regards, RIPE Meeting Team

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SBAS Survey Results
by David Hausheer 27 Oct '22

27 Oct '22

Dear RIPE, in December 2021, the RIPE community was asked [1] to help by answering to a survey about the Secure Backbone AS (SBAS) architecture. Now, we would like to follow-up with the results of that survey which are included in a recent USENIX paper: Creating a Secure Underlay for the Internet https://www.usenix.org/system/files/sec22-birge-lee.pdf A full description of survey questions and results is contained in a tech report: https://arxiv.org/abs/2206.06879 [1] https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/ripe-list/2021-December/002400.html Kind regards, David Hausheer

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on the existence of this list: a suggestion
by Joe Abley 27 Oct '22

27 Oct '22

Hi all, Having foolishly neglected to either register to attend this week's meeting in person or on-line (you can follow the stream without registering, but I don't think you can send questions to the mic line), I thought I would send some small thoughts about the question of moderation of this list to this list. I would suggest that this list is used today for three main purposes: 1. Announcements; 2. Controversial topics and undesirable commentary that in recent times has often triggered active moderation; 3. Discussions about the operation, nature, purpose and value of the list itself, of which this e-mail is an example. It seems to me that there are better ways of achieving (1) than an open mailing list; we would arguably be better off without (2) altogether and (3) only has value so long as the list in its current form continues to exist. The days in which this list was used to advance the ideals of the community (and hence the Internet) in a practical, meaningful or operational way are long past, I think. Those conversations continue but they do not happen here. I think this is more likely to be a natural consequence of generational differences in the way that people communicate than a result of the way this list is implemented or operated. Other communication platforms are widely used today (and have long been widely used) for conversations relating to the Internet, the RIPE community and the RIPE NCC. I do not think this list is a necessary prerequisite for accountability or transparency. Unless people really think (2) and (3) have a value that exceeds the demonstrated cost of keeping this list alive, I suggest it should be closed. It's surely healthier for a community to adapt than it is to cling onto the past. Joe

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RIPE 85 Highlights - Day 3
by RIPE NCC Event Team 27 Oct '22

27 Oct '22

Dear colleagues, Yesterday at RIPE 85 saw more than 1096 people registered. On Meetecho, there were 254 unique participants in the main room and 115 unique participants in the side room, and more joined in via the RIPE 85 livestream and YouTube. Wednesday was the first day of the RIPE Working Group sessions – you can find some highlights from the day at: https://ripe85.ripe.net/programme/blog/ Today we continue with more working group sessions: Anti-Abuse, MAT, DNS, IoT, Database and Cooperation. You can find the meeting plan at: https://ripe85.ripe.net/programme/meeting-plan/ Stay tuned for what’s happening at RIPE 85 by following @RIPEMeeting on Twitter and using the #RIPE85 hashtag. Kind regards, RIPE Meeting Team

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RIPE 85 Highlights - Day 2
by RIPE NCC Event Team 26 Oct '22

26 Oct '22

Dear colleagues, The second day of RIPE 85 ended with 1050 people registered. On Meetecho, there were 244 unique participants in the main room and 43 unique participants in the side room, and more joined in via the RIPE 85 livestream and YouTube. Tuesday we continued with plenary sessions and held two BoFs. You can find some highlights from the day at: https://ripe85.ripe.net/programme/blog/ Today, we kick off our working group sessions: Routing, Address Policy, Open Source, IPv6, Connect and RIPE NCC Services. You can find the meeting plan at: https://ripe85.ripe.net/programme/meeting-plan/ Stay tuned for what’s happening at RIPE 85 by following @ripemeeting on Twitter and using the #RIPE85 hashtag. Kind regards, RIPE Meeting Team

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