May 2023 - ripe-list - mailman.ripe.net

The Future of Discussion Lists
by Leo Vegoda 08 Jun '23

08 Jun '23

Dear RIPE community, At yesterday’s community plenary I asked whether mailing lists are sustainable as our main communication channel. For those who were not able to attend, the slide and a recording are available here: - https://ripe86.ripe.net/wp-content/uploads/presentations/12-Mailing-Lists-R… - https://ripe86.ripe.net/archives/video/1115 I am obviously concerned that discussion lists might not serve us with fidelity in the future. If that is the case, I want us to manage any change we need to make. We should not be bounced into rapid change. There was more discussion than I expected. I’m sending this message to ask the questions: - Am I wrong? Are e-mail discussion lists a sustainable communication channel for the foreseeable future? - Are e-mail discussion lists an acceptable technology to people joining the industry? The text below is similar to something I shared with the WG Chairs several months ago. Kind regards,. Leo ripe-781 describes four fundamental principles supporting our policy development process. The first two principles are openness and transparency. Changes in the treatment of e-mail by large industry players presents a challenge to these two principles. In 1992, when ripe-001 was published, anyone could run e-mail services on any Internet infrastructure they could use. It is now far more difficult to run e-mail services. Technology developments, like DMARC, have made discussion mailing lists less effective. Validation failures increase the probability of messages being treated as junk. Subscribers to RIPE's discussion lists will miss messages when their e-mail services provider treats them as junk. When a legitimate message to a RIPE discussion list is treated as junk the sender's voice has been moderated by a third-party mail provider. RIPE's transparency is diminished when its discussion lists are subjected to gatekeeping by third-party mail providers. In 1992, e-mail was an improvement to postal services and telephony protocols. In 2023, we have a wide choice of communication protocols and platforms. I believe that new protocols and platforms are preferred over e-mail by potential participants in RIPE at the start of their careers. We want these people to take part in RIPE. They are the future of coordination for the operators of IP networks in Europe and the rest of the world. We must offer all current and potential participants in RIPE an effective set of tools. Any tools we use must support the principles of openness and transparency. An ideal set of tools might have features like this: 1. An open protocol available for implementation by anyone. 2. Free(ly available) software implementations for popular operating systems (Android, iOS, Linux, macOS, and Windows). 3. Allows a user to choose to have activity pushed to them. They must not be forced to maintain a login to be informed of activity they are interested in. 4. A public archive that cannot be retrospectively edited (barring exceptional situations). While the technology choices need to support the principles of openness and transparency, they do not need to do all the work. Announcements, blog posts, and other kinds of communications can be built into our processes. The combination of technology and process can make the whole more effective.

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RIPE86 results
by Alex de Joode 02 Jun '23

02 Jun '23

RIPE86 has closed, so first congratulations to Raymond, Maria and Harald! Second thanks to the RIPE NCC for organising a marvellous event (even if in Rotterdam ;) and a lunch without nasi and sateh :( ). This time the event venue and hotel's were separate, as this also was the largest RIPE ever, we might see this a new way to do meetings. Personally I feel having a 'event hotel' gives me more of a community feeling. Would be nice if we could have some data concerning this (do ppl not care as some might opt for cheaper hotels anyways, do they have a preference for one/other). Third, as to the GM results, could the RIPE NCC give some background on the actual numbers for the votes of the charging scheme? Did option D receive a clear majority, or only in the run-off? This might be very relevant for finding the way forward. Thanks, Alex -- IDGARA | Alex de Joode | alex(a)idgara.nl | +31651108221

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Re: [ripe-list] The Future of Discussion Lists
by Petra.Zeidler＠dlr.de 31 May '23

31 May '23

Hi, Maria Matejka wrote: > There may be also different approaches altogether. We may be missing e.g. some visually impaired or dyslectic people, who often rely more on sound than on text ? yet keeping in mind that sound may be on the other hand a showstopper for not only hearing-impaired but also e.g. for lots of ADHD people. I'm not proposing anything specific here, just trying to shed some light on other factors we haven't yet covered. I have a different "disability": I read legalese, and I believe that it is intent to actually take away rights I usually have if I am asked to explicitly sign them away. Thus, I used to have a Discord account, but I deleted it after a Terms change not too long ago. Now, if I don't participate because I don't like the terms Discord demands, that is probably not that great a loss for the RIPE community. OTOH, if by the last terms of Discord I saw you discuss/create a new policy document on Discord, you afterwards cannot publish it anywhere else because Discord owns copyright for the thing. Is that useful? Also, I can simply choose to not take part in RIPE processes, but for other people, it's their job. Asking them to accept the terms of a single third party (i.e. with no ability to choose a different set of terms with a different supplier) to be able to do it does not seem like progress to me. (That is a suggestion to use as communication add-on or replacement something where RIPE can set the terms). Regards, Petra Zeidler PS: Usenet has been reinvented, badly, so many times.

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New addresses for b.root-servers.net
by Robert Story 30 May '23

30 May '23

USC/ISI is renumbering both its IPv4 and IPv6 addresses for b.root-servers.net on 2023-11-27. Our new IPv4 address will be 170.247.170.2 and our new IPv6 address will be 2801:1b8:10::b. USC/ISI will continue to support root service over our current IPv4 and IPv6 addresses for at least one year (until 2024-11-27) in order to provide a stable transition period while new root hints files are distributed in software and operating system packages. We are renumbering to increase the resilience of the Root Servers System by further diversifying the number of Regional Internet Registries (RIRs) that have allocated IP addresses to Root Server Operators. Our addresses will be the first in the Root Server System to have been allocated by LACNIC and our routes will be verifiable through LACNIC’s Resource Public Key Infrastructure (RPKI) Trust Anchor Location (TAL). We thank LACNIC for helping make this renumbering possible, and ARIN for supporting our prior addressing assignments. The LACNIC announcement, with English, Spanish and Portuguese translations, can be found on their website here: https://www.lacnic.net/6868/1/lacnic/lacnic-asigna-recursos-de-numeracion-a… Please direct any comments or questions to b-poc <at> isi.edu. Regards, Robert P.S. Apologies to anyone receiving multiple copies of this announcement. -- Robert Story USC Information Sciences Institute <http://www.isi.edu/> Networking and Cybersecurity Division

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Re: [ripe-list] The Future of Discussion Lists
by Mathias Westerlund 27 May '23

27 May '23

I personally would like to see more interactive alternatives be officially recognized, while mail is great for archival and for a-sync communications it is dated and not very alluring to newer players in the market. Another upside is of course that pretty much everyone have mail access while anything else would require agreeing across the community on a tool we are all okay with. But my opinion is strongly that i would like to see something complement the use of mailing lists but not replace. Regards, Mathias W. West digital Management AB. --------------------Original message-------------------- From: Leo Vegoda <leo(a)vegoda.org> Sent: Friday, May 26, 2023 10:07 To: ripe-list(a)ripe.net Subject: [ripe-list] The Future of Discussion Lists Dear RIPE community, At yesterday’s community plenary I asked whether mailing lists are sustainable as our main communication channel. For those who were not able to attend, the slide and a recording are available here: - https://ripe86.ripe.net/wp-content/uploads/presentations/12-Mailing-Lists-R… - https://ripe86.ripe.net/archives/video/1115 I am obviously concerned that discussion lists might not serve us with fidelity in the future. If that is the case, I want us to manage any change we need to make. We should not be bounced into rapid change. There was more discussion than I expected. I’m sending this message to ask the questions: - Am I wrong? Are e-mail discussion lists a sustainable communication channel for the foreseeable future? - Are e-mail discussion lists an acceptable technology to people joining the industry? The text below is similar to something I shared with the WG Chairs several months ago. Kind regards,. Leo ripe-781 describes four fundamental principles supporting our policy development process. The first two principles are openness and transparency. Changes in the treatment of e-mail by large industry players presents a challenge to these two principles. In 1992, when ripe-001 was published, anyone could run e-mail services on any Internet infrastructure they could use. It is now far more difficult to run e-mail services. Technology developments, like DMARC, have made discussion mailing lists less effective. Validation failures increase the probability of messages being treated as junk. Subscribers to RIPE's discussion lists will miss messages when their e-mail services provider treats them as junk. When a legitimate message to a RIPE discussion list is treated as junk the sender's voice has been moderated by a third-party mail provider. RIPE's transparency is diminished when its discussion lists are subjected to gatekeeping by third-party mail providers. In 1992, e-mail was an improvement to postal services and telephony protocols. In 2023, we have a wide choice of communication protocols and platforms. I believe that new protocols and platforms are preferred over e-mail by potential participants in RIPE at the start of their careers. We want these people to take part in RIPE. They are the future of coordination for the operators of IP networks in Europe and the rest of the world. We must offer all current and potential participants in RIPE an effective set of tools. Any tools we use must support the principles of openness and transparency. An ideal set of tools might have features like this: 1. An open protocol available for implementation by anyone. 2. Free(ly available) software implementations for popular operating systems (Android, iOS, Linux, macOS, and Windows). 3. Allows a user to choose to have activity pushed to them. They must not be forced to maintain a login to be informed of activity they are interested in. 4. A public archive that cannot be retrospectively edited (barring exceptional situations). While the technology choices need to support the principles of openness and transparency, they do not need to do all the work. Announcements, blog posts, and other kinds of communications can be built into our processes. The combination of technology and process can make the whole more effective. -- To unsubscribe from this mailing list, get a password reminder, or change your subscription options, please visit: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/ripe-list

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RIPE 86 Highlights and Thank You!
by Mirjam Kuehne 26 May '23

26 May '23

Dear colleagues, RIPE 86 ended with a total of 863 attendees checked in onsite in Rotterdam and 501 unique participants on Meetecho across the meeting week, with more joining in via the livestream and YouTube. Thank you all for making this RIPE Meeting such a success! We were happy to see active participation at this meeting from both online and onsite participants. We would like to thank all the speakers, Working Group Chairs, the Programme Committee and sponsors for their contributions. It was also great to hear from our younger attendees at the Diversity in Tech session. Over the past week, we have had several plenary sessions and lightning talks, Working Group sessions followed by the Closing Plenary. You can find some highlights from the day in the Daily Meeting Blog at: https://labs.ripe.net/author/ripe-ncc/ripe-86-daily-meeting-blog/ All presentations from the meeting are archived: https://ripe86.ripe.net/archives/ Save the date for RIPE 87, taking place in Rome, Italy from 27 November – 1 December 2023. You can get updates via the RIPE Discussion list, social media and the RIPE 87 website: https://ripe87.ripe.net Best regards, Mirjam Kühne, RIPE Chair, and Niall O’Reilly, RIPE Vice-Chair

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Take the RIPE NCC Survey 2023
by fergalc＠ripe.net 24 May '23

24 May '23

Dear colleagues, The RIPE NCC Survey 2023 is now available online. https://www.ripe.net/survey Your participation is important to provide valuable feedback on the RIPE NCC’s services and activities. We want to know how we can best meet your needs, what direction the RIPE NCC should take in the coming years, and what challenges you face in your work that we can help with. We encourage you to take the time to complete it, and please encourage your colleagues and contacts to participate - the more feedback we get, the better we can do. The survey is anonymous and open to both RIPE NCC and RIPE community members in ten languages: Arabic, English, Farsi, French, Italian, Polish, Russian, Spanish, Turkish and Ukrainian. Prize Draws ----------- To encourage participation, we are giving you the chance to win a prize in our weekly prize draw. Prizes include flights and accommodation to RIPE 87, a Meta Quest 2, Apple Watches SE, and Bose QuietComfort headphones. Any of these gifts can be exchanged for a EUR 250 donation to a charity listed on our website. The earlier you fill out the survey, the more chances you will have to win a prize. If you complete the survey today, you will have six chances to win a prize! If you have any questions about the survey, you can email us at survey(a)ripe.net. You have until 30 June 2023 to participate. Remember, 15 minutes can make a big difference. Best regards, Fergal Cunningham Head of Membership Engagement RIPE NCC

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BoF on Tuesday Evening: The Impact of the Latest Developments in Artificial Intelligence on the RIPE Community
by Daniel Karrenberg 23 May '23

23 May '23

Dear colleagues, There will be a BoF on Tuesday evening at RIPE86. I proposed it to the PC like this: "We suspect that many RIPE participants are paying attention to the increased discussions about AI within society as-a-whole. Therefore we propose to reserve a space in the meeting agenda for participants to share their opinions about this and hear the views of their peers. We suggest to consider the impact on the RIPE community as a way to frame the discussion. We do not propose new formal work by the community at this point in time." The goal is an exchange of opinions and ideas as a way for everyone to learn and enhance their own views on the subject. We do not want long monologues and the optimal outcome is a lively and entertaining discussion. Therefore the format will be that of a 'speed discussion'. If at all possible we want to avoid sitting facing the stage but rather in something resembling a circle as far as the layout of the room permits. In order to avoid microphone queues there will be two tokens in the room passed from one speaker to the next. We will not use microphones unless the group is too big. People will get to speak for no more than two minutes each followed by a two minute question and discussion period. If the discussion is fruitful the chair may extend it for another two minutes. Then the next person will get to speak for two minutes, ... . We will have a traffic light clock to keep the time and everyone will strictly respect the timing. We aim for an open and respectful discussion among peers. After the discussion we ask everyone not to reveal who said what to people who have not been present. It is OK to report *what* was said but not *who* said it. If the discussion is as good as we hope, we may publish a short report to the community. I am looking for two or three people to commit to speaking first to get things going. Please contact me off list. Also, if you have suggestions for reading material about the subject, please share them in this thread. I am very much looking forward to see you in the BoF. Daniel RIPE co-founder, first and current employee of the RIPE NCC, speaking only for himself.

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Open Call: IGF MAG Nominations from the Internet Technical Community
by Chris Buckridge 22 May '23

22 May '23

Dear colleagues, With a very active and interesting couple of years ahead for the Internet Governance Forum (and Internet governance more generally), the Internet Technical Collaboration Group (ITCG) is opening a call for volunteers to represent the Internet technical community on the IGF Multistakeholder Advisory Group (MAG). The MAG serves primarily as a Programme Committee for the annual IGF event, while also advising on the strategy and direction of the IGF, and working closely with the Secretariat. Since the early 2000s, the IGF has embodied the UN’s commitment to a multistakeholder approach to Internet governance, ensuring that stakeholders (like the Internet technical community) have a seat at the table and a voice in global governance processes. With some important discussions upcoming (including a 20-year review of the UN World Summit of the Information Society, which gives the IGF its mandate), maintaining a strong commitment to that approach is very important! Details of the open call are available on the ITCG website: https://www.internetcollaboration.org/2023/05/itcg-call-for-nominations-202… The nomination form is here: https://www.internetcollaboration.org/2024-igf-multistakeholder-advisory-gr… I am a current member of the MAG, so please feel free to reach out to me with any questions (or grab me in the corridor during this week’s RIPE Meeting in Rotterdam), particularly about time and work expectations. Best regards, Chris —— Chris Buckridge Advisor to the Managing Director, Global Strategic Engagement RIPE NCC

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RIPE 86 starts today!
by RIPE NCC Event Team 22 May '23

22 May '23

Dear colleagues, RIPE Chair Mirjam Kühne will open the RIPE 86 Meeting in Rotterdam today at 14:00 local time (UTC+2). If you cannot be at RIPE 86 in person, you can follow the meeting online and participate remotely by viewing the live webcast: https://ripe86.ripe.net/live/main/ To stay up-to-date with all RIPE Meeting updates, Follow us on Facebook, LinkedIn and Twitter: @ripemeeting, #RIPE86 Best regards Alexandra Event Organiser RIPE NCC

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