August 1999 - ripe-list - mailman.ripe.net

Draft Plenary Minutes RIPE 33
by RIPE NCC Meeting Registration 30 Aug '99

30 Aug '99

33rd RIPE Meeting Plenary Minutes - DRAFT RIPE 33 Vienna, 4th - 7th May 1999 Plenary Session Chair: Rob Blokzijl Scribe: Naomi de Bruyn 1. Opening 2. Agenda 3. Minutes RIPE 32 4. From the Chair 5. Reports from the RIPE NCC (D. Karrenberg et al.) 6. Report from APNIC (P. Wilson) 7. ICANN a - Current Status of ICANN (R.Blokzijl) b - Progress with the Address Supporting Organisation (ASO) + Report from the IETF/ASO meeting (D. Karrenberg) + Report from the ARIN/ASO meeting (M. Kuehne) + Report from the RIPE NCC Board (K. Mitchel) c - Presentation on Guiding Principles (R. Blokzijl) see document by G.Houston: www.ripe.net/mail-archives/aso-discuss/19990311-19990401/msg00008.html d - Questions & Discussion e - Conclusions & Next Steps 8. Transatlantic Cables: from retail to wholesale (D. Bovio) 9. Reports from the working groups 10. Next meetings 11. AOB 12. Close - 1. - Opening RIPE chair Rob Blokzijl welcomed the participants to the 33rd RIPE meeting. - 2. - Agenda One agenda item was added: Rob was pleased that Paul Wilson, from the APNIC in Australia, agreed to give a report on APNIC operations during the plenary session. The agenda was then approved. - 3. - Minutes RIPE 32 The minutes of the plenary session of RIPE 32 were approved. - 4. - From the Chair - 5. - Reports from the RIPE NCC (Mirjam Kuehne) The RIPE NCC Status presentation can be found at: http://www.ripe.net/meetings/ripe/ripe-33/pres/ - Statistics Hostcount: Mirjam reported that the RIPE NCC has completed the hostcount revision to include all top level domains in RIPE NCC region. She reported a higher growth in the number of new Local IRs since the status report provided at the RIPE 32 meeting in January 1999. Since January 1999, the RIPE NCC has secured contracts with 230 new members which is almost twice the amount than projected. Mirjam noted that this trend will be monitored closely so that action can be taken to cope with the growth, should this trend continue. - Database The month of March 1999 was a peek period with more than 300.000 updates made in the RIPE database. - Registration Services Due to many factors, the response time to tickets issued has increased. The hostmaster team is working very hard to return to a response time of 2-3 days. Minor policy changes were made to align the policies of the RIPE NCC with the other regional registries. These changes have been distributed via email to the RIPE NCC membership and the appropriate RIPE working groups. A 'Frequently Asked Questions' document has been written for new registries. The document is designed to provide answers to some of the questions that new registries may have about their first address space request. The document can be found at http://www.ripe.net/lir/newlir/ The RIPE NCC has introduced and enforced stricter policies with regards to billing. This procedure has been clarified to the RIPE NCC members. - IPv6 Mirjam reported that several suggestions for editorial changes to the IPv6 document have been received. The document has been approved by the RIPE IPv6 working group and the respective constituencies in the other regions. The next step is to submit the document to IANA for approval, the NCC will also request address space, however the formal administration is still unclear. The draft can be found on the RIPE NCC website at: http://www.ripe.net/lir/registries/ipv6.html - Database Progress has been made with regards to the database re-implementation process. The basic scheme was agreed and laid out during the Database working group session. The database consistency project is moving forward. A full-time employee has been assigned to the consistency project. More information about this can be found on the RIPE NCC website at: http://www.ripe.net/db/state/ The RIPE NCC will work to combine the current RPSL tutorials with the LIR training course. RPSL will become part of the LIR training course with a planned launch in September 1999. Both courses, however, will be set up so that they can be offered separately when needed. - Test Traffic A brief description of the current status of the Test-Traffic project was given. The measurement network has been extended and progress has been made with the analysis of the data. The most important new analysis result was the comparison of measurements by the RIPE NCC and Advanced Networks and Systems. Both projects implement the IETF-IPPM drafts describing delay and loss measurements and should therefore produce identical results. This was tested by exchanging measurement machines and comparing the data taken over a period of several months. The outcome of this analysis showed that both experiments measure the same effects and that the results are consistent with each other. This is an extremely important step in the verification of the results of the Test-Traffic Project. Current information about the Test Traffic project and the presentation delivered at the RIPE 33 meeting can be found at http://www.ripe.net/test-traffic/ - RIR Coordination The registries continue to work on coordination efforts and as a result have agreed on several operational policy alignments. The RIPE NCC has been working with APNIC (RIPE NCC staff worked temporarily at APNIC) to facilitate a mutual understanding of challenges and operating procedures. The RIPE NCC has also participated in membership meetings of ARIN and APNIC. Two colleagues from ARIN and one from APNIC participated in the plenary session of the RIPE 33 meeting. At the close of her presentation, Mirjam reported that the first ever published RIPE NCC Annual Report was ready for distribution. A printed version will be posted to all RIPE NCC members and will be available on the RIPE NCC website at http://www.ripe.net/docs/ripe-194.html Questions to the RIPE NCC: Question: are there any figures on how many LIRs have left the RIPE NCC? A: Mirjam answered that we have not closed that many registries. The main reason to close a registry, is when they do not pay their bills. This has not happened that often yet. Another reason for closure is when registries go out of business. Mirjam did not have the exact figures on closed registries with her. She reported that these figures will be presented at the RIPE 34 meeting. Mike Norris wanted to give an additional figure in this context: the number of registries is now in 1000's. Worth remembering that since when we've last met the number of domains has now gone to over a million. Domain objects in the database have increased with almost 50%. This is also because many objects in the database are related to domain objects. Daniel Karrenberg addressed the participants with a few words related to the RIPE NCC and his present function as General Manager. He informed everyone present that he has decided to step down as the RIPE NCC General Manager. Daniel stated that the reason for stepping down from the position is personal and family related. Daniel would like to remain involved with the RIPE NCC. The Executive Board has taken this into account. He stated that the RIPE NCC should intensify new technical developments such as the Test Traffic project. This is an area of interest for Daniel in the RIPE NCC. Daniel expressed his thanks to several people in the RIPE community. He has seen the NCC grow from 3 people to more then 50. Daniel thanked all the RIPE NCC staff past and present, for all their effort and good spirit. He also thanked Rob, who has been chairing the RIPE meetings for 10 years. The ten year anniversary will take place during the RIPE 34 in Amsterdam. He thanked Rob for his support and guidance over the years. Daniel also thanked the Executive Board, he realises that even though they have demanding day-jobs they take their board tasks very seriously. Finally, he also expressed thanks to the RIPE community as a whole for their support, especially those people who have taken the time to chair working groups and/or write documents and provide input to the RIPE NCC. He closed by saying that the RIPE NCC will be represented by a new General Manager at the RIPE 34 meeting. Daniel briefly explained the efforts of the Executive Board in appointing his successor. The RIPE NCC Executive Board are currently engaged in recruiting a replacement for the RIPE NCC General Manager position. The Executive Board have taken slow and deliberate steps and are following the procedures outlined in the statutes. The Executive Board have made very sure that the selection process remains with them. - 6. - Report from APNIC (P. Wilson) The APNIC has recently undergone quite a few changes. Paul Wilson has succeeded David Conrad as Director General of the APNIC. The APNIC office has relocated from Tokyo, JP to Brisbane, AU. The growth of the membership has decreased in the past months, which is largely due to economic issues in the APNIC region. Consumption, which has been slow for the past few years, is expected to increase from now on. The major countries that are being served by APNIC are: Australia, China, Japan, Hong Kong, Korea and Taiwan. Paul Wilson provided more details with regards to the secretariat relocation from Tokyo, JP to Brisbane, AU. He also reported that the relocation did not disrupt the services provided to the APNIC membership. APNIC has gone from 4 1/2 staff to a current count of 11. They have held a members survey results were positive. APNIC has been working hard developing general policy documentation for its operations as well as contributing to the production of policy documents together with the other Regional Registries. The APNIC is currently introducing a training programme to its membership, focusing on the APNIC procedures. This course is similar to the LIR course provided by the RIPE NCC. APNIC will continue to do a lot of work on documents and translations are very important due to language barriers and the demands of members in the APNIC areas. With regards to technical services they are closely looking at the current and planned activities of the RIPE NCC. Paul expressed his thanks to the NCC for having provided short term staff from the RIPE NCC to assist with APNIC operations. Paul Wilson added that the APNIC is currently reviewing its membership fee structure which was initially proposed to the APNIC members in March of this year. Rob asked if the new charging scheme in development is also copied to address space consumption and if an ageing scheme is in place. Paul replied with saying that this particular question has not been raised by the membership thus far. They will be mixing it and historical allocations will be taken into account. - 7. - ICANN A - Current Status of ICANN (R. Blokzijl) Rob noted that RIPE has been very involved in the Address Supporting Organisation. This has been discussed for the past 6 months, it has been discussed in depth and at length. A few new developments in this area have taken place between RIPE 32 and 33 meetings. B - Progress with the Address Supporting Organisation (ASO) 1. Report from the ARIN/ASO meeting (M. Kuehne) + Report from the IETF/ASO meeting Mirjam reported that during the IETF meeting in Minneapolis there was a good open discussion. A few principles have been laid down that were seen as significant for the creation of an ASO. Another ASO meeting was held in conjunction with the ARIN members meeting which was held in Atlanta. Mirjam provided a summary of issues discussed at the ARIN meeting first. This meeting marked the first time that ARIN had working group meetings. During this meeting the address allocation policy working group and the database working group met. These are organised very much like the RIPE working groups. At the membership meeting and the advisory council meeting it was decided to create a few more working groups: http://www.arin.net/members/wg/index.html During the RIPE 32 plenary session discussions on the ICANN process it was felt that in the ARIN region the structures and processes were not as open and as transparent as in the other regions. The members have discussed this issue and concluded to have open meetings to discuss policy. It was also decided that the minutes of these meetings will be published on the ARIN website. Another proposal suggests that organisations that receive registration services from ARIN automatically become members of ARIN. Mirjam was not certain if this was decided yet as the decision needed to be passed through the ARIN Board. It was noted that supporting this proposal could help to further stabilise ARIN. ARIN would like to see its membership participate in the discussions and give more support to the ARIN structures. During the ASO meeting in Atlanta a few ASO models were presented. Most of the attendees supported the simple model where the communities are represented through the regional registries in the ASO. The next step is to work further on an ASO proposal. There was a discussion to commission someone to facilitate this process. There will be 2 more ICANN meetings, one in Berlin (May 1999) and one in Santiago (August 1999). The RIPE NCC will actively participate in the meetings. + Report from the RIPE NCC Board (K. Mitchell) Keith Mitchell provided a summary from the RIPE NCC Executive Board with regards to ICANN. He noted that he attended another ASO meeting held in Singapore, on behalf of the RIPE NCC. Keith expressed that the board believes a facilitator is needed for the ICANN process. This process is extremely time consuming. The idea is to contract someone who can devote the necessary time for this activity. It is important to maintain initiative and continuity. The person contracted for this task must be able to devote at least half of their time to this, for a period of 6 months although it could be longer. Keith stresses that the individual is required to know the industry as well as governance issues. The problem is that the people involved in the industry and governance issues are often too busy for the task at hand. Keith asked the meeting participants to please suggest and/or nominate an individual who could carry this responsibility for the Regional Registries. The facilitator would have to participate in both the ICANN and Regional Registry meetings. He/she must also monitor the discussions on the mailinglists and continue liase with the ICANN board. The members of the Regional Registries are also participating in this activity and we currently have an ASO discussion list to track issues and report on progress. Keith also noted that too much time should not be wasted on writing formal documents, as was the case in the domain name supporting organisation. We must concentrate on outlining the principles and then produce a document. C - Presentation on Guiding Principles (R. Blokzijl) See document by G. Houston: www.ripe.net/mail-archives/aso-discuss/19990311-19990401/msg00008.htm With regards to document preparation, Rob also believes that the correct way to produce them is to first agree on the principles and only then translate these into a document. Consensus must be reached on the principles first. A draft document exists which has been put together by Geoff Houston a member of the APNIC Executive Council. It is based on discussions which took place during the ICANN meetings discussed above as well as a previous meeting held in Singapore. The principles are simple but fundamental in nature: First of all we should very consciously find out who the players are. Naturally there are the Regional Registries with their members, they are a very important players, but we should identify any other legitimate players in the IP address policy issues. Policies should not be confused with politics. It must be possible for good policies to be implemented. Any policies put in place should recognise that the existing Regional Registry structure has proven to be strong and robust. We are not going to invent something we do not need. We should keep in mind that we need time to work on things so that we can develop good policies. We should not confuse the time frame with the DNSO time frame. They have urgent problems that need resolving and they have nothing in place yet. We already have a good structure in place and significantly less problems. Open processes are important and a part of the discussion is on how to implement an open process. There seems to be consensus and understanding of the fact that the current Regional Registries are open. For instance: RIPE meetings are not only open to NCC members, they are open to anyone who wants to attend. We cannot be more open than that. This has been acknowledged by the community, but also by the current interim ICANN Board of Directors. D - Questions & Discussions A question was raised about the 2 proposals which have been made with regards to representation (regional registries versus the at large membership of ICANN). This is a point of contention. Rob noted that what we have reached is a broad understanding that the at large members, as far as address space is concerned, is best represented through the Regional Registries. It was pointed out that during the ARIN/ASO meeting Michael Schneider, president of Euro ISPA (representing 300 European ISPs), stated that this did not represent his ideas. During the same meeting someone from CIX said it did not represent their needs either. Rob replied stating that these persons were not present in the RIPE 33 meeting and could have joined to the meeting to voice their position. We have a much wider representation and are only concerned with the address space issue, whereas the Euro ISPA organisation has a much broader working area. Rob said he realises that there are groups that have a slightly different view. Keith and Rob offered to come to the membership meeting of Euro ISPA, but was told that they had an overloaded agenda. Rob reported that he had the feeling this item was not very high on their list of priorities. He again stressed that we are open, and that he hopes and expects that the organisation will be represented at the ASO meeting, which will take place in Berlin. Randy Bush noted that if the CIX executive has taken a position on this, they did so without informing the CIX membership. The majority of the members know nothing of this. Keith stressed that this is a big obstacle. There is a representation war between the existing Regional Registries and a couple of trade associations. There have been some suggestions that these associations are acting without authority and possibly there exist counter allegations as well. Keith stated that, if a member of Euro ISPA, CIX or a Regional Registry, the best way to secure the set up of a stable ASO is to tell the organisations whether you do or do not want these organisations to represent you in this process. He added that if any members do not want the RIPE NCC to represent them that they should please state this. Keith stressed that the RIPE NCC is receptive to comments on this issue and he hoped the others organisations are as well. Rob reminded the participants that in the Euro ISPA, the majority of ISPs in Europe are not allowed to join in. Only ISPs based in the European Union are eligible for membership. Rob stated that he was aware of this ongoing discussion but that it cannot be properly discussed if the organisations in question are not present. Rob concluded by stating that the RIPE NCC provides a fair representation, but it does not claim to be the only one or the complete one. Everyone is welcome to be a part of it. E - Conclusions & Next Steps The RIPE NCC proposition is to start looking for a facilitator, someone who has good knowledge of the general issues and/or the technical issues and has not been part of the recent discussions. This person should act as an impartial facilitator. If you feel you are eligible or know someone who is, please contact either Keith or Rob. The RIPE NCC Executive Board has agreed to commit the funds necessary to facilitate the project. It will be a project that the Board hopes the other Regional Registries will also want to be part of. Keith was pleased to announce that the APNIC have already agreed to support the project and hopefully ARIN will as well. - 8. - Transatlantic Cables: from retail to wholesale (D. Bovio) - 9. - Reports from the RIPE Working Groups The chairs from the various working groups provided reports on the working group meetings that were held earlier in the week. Summaries of the meetings provided by the working group chairpersons are included here in the text to follow. Full minutes of the working groups will be published on the RIPE NCC Website at http://www.ripe.net/wg/ Routing WG ---------- Chair: Joachim Schmitz Attendees: 74 Scribe: Roman Karpiuk Reports: - Status Report: RPS Standards & Drafts (Cengiz Alleattinoglu) - Report from the NCC (JLS Damas) - RPSL Transition: Issues and Progress (JLS Damas) - Reports from other registries - Overview (D. Kessens) - RADB (A. Ahuja) - Interesting Internet Developments (A. Ahuja) - Multicast Developments (K. Kayser) Actions: - 29.R1 Definition/AUP of Internet Routing Registry (IRR) - 31.R1 IPv6 IRR - 32.R1 Document Issues related to transition RIPE 181 -> RPSL - 32.R2 Consistency Check IRR RIPE 33 DBsec TF ---------------- Chair: Joachim Schmitz Attendees: 10 Scribe: Joao Damas Reports: - IETF - RIPE NCC, ARIN, APNIC Topics: - prefix/origin authentication (G. Winters) - rps-auth - core: prefix/origin auth referral-by - non-core: (no) reclaim auth-override A question was raised with regards to the Database security task force; do we still have a mandate from the community to keep this task force? Shall we close it down? Requests for additional input will be sent to the maillinglist of the working groups. Participants were asked provide their input to be discussed at the next RIPE meeting. LIR WG ------ Chair: Hans Petter Holen Attendees: 68 Scribe: Paul Tate Action points LIR-WG RIPE 32 o DONE: NCC: Web interface to RIPE-141 - Announce, receive comments, and make source public o DONE: NCC: write up suggestion on lowering AW from /19 o DONE: Guy Davies, UUnet: Start discussion on list on max allocation size and internal aggregation needs for large networks o DONE: NCC: make pretty address statistics charts o DONE: NCC: IP addresses to cable networks - Document current IANA policy and align practice with other IRRs o Everybody: Participate in policies for IPv6 discussion o OPEN: tagging of IP addresses for anti-SPAM Tagging IP addresses for anti SPAM measures o presentation on how the Dialup User List implemented by Paul Vixie works: maps.vix.com o A discussion on the usefulness of adding mechanisms to the RIPE database took place o Daniel Karrenberg proposed a more general mechanism that would solve this and other needs o Passed on to the db wg DNS WG ------ Chair: Ruediger Volk Attendees: Scribe: The DNS working group started of their session with reports from NCC, delivered by Mirjam Kuehne. In response to two action items from the last time, RIPE NCC had been asked to do a little bit of operational statistics to see the impact of missing delegations and bad delegations in the reverse domain mapping. Lee wilmot grepped out some statistics from the DNS servers run by the NCC. Half of the load was due to problems in the delegations. We couldn't figure out what this means during this meeting. We will be analyzing the data provided by the NCC further on. The RIPE NCC had also been asked to check the current policy documents, whether they could be enhanced to include stronger encouragement for doing the reverse mapping correctly. We were told that the forthcoming updated documents will include enhancements in this direction. After the reports from NCC, Lars-Johan Liman provided some reports about DNS related sessions at the last IETF meeting. Randy Bush also gave a few hints about what's going on there. For the next agenda item we checked the status of the documents we have been working on, unfortunately the publication has not progressed as planned. A very short SOA recommandation paper will be published distributed in final form by Peter Koch. The dummies guide which Lars has been working on probably has been distributed in the final form this week. Collecting more items and issues for larger best practise is still open. SOA and dummies are supposed to be final. These papers have been discussed in context of IETF meeting as well and there has not been any requests for substantial changes so its only a little bit of editorial stuff. We had opened the question of DNSSEC of the availability of security functionality and DNS in particular. Security in the way of securing the authenticy of DNS data, we had the intention to collect material and check out what work plan the working group should develop in this area. The result was this: the TLD-wg told us that there is lots of interest but no specific input for requirements. On the other hand the collection of items and issues within the DNS-wg did not give much material at this point in time. However there is supposed to be a small workshop in the near future in Sweden and we expect to get substantial input back from that event. Checking how we expect the DNSSEC to progress, it looks like it will take some time until we have real implementations that are ready for being used by normal administrators, so the progress will be rather slow. We will be monitoring this and get back to you during the next meeting. At the end we had Fernando Garcia present a sketch of a draft document that he has started working on which is supposed to help administrators with detailed advice on how to process DNS when they have to renumber or change providers and change the DNS delegations in this context. It seems that this kind of issue is a problem for a couple of parties, so having someone or a small group create a document that gives advice and help seems to be of interest and a good idea. However, at the current time the reported document is a sketch and we are looking for people to read this and comment on it and we have to check next time whether this will make progress within the working group and within RIPE. TLD WG ------ Chair: Niall O'Reilly Attendees: 33 Scribe: Maldwyn Morris No. of ccTLDs represented: 9 Current Actions TLD-32.1 [Chair] Update Workplan Part done; kept open; follow up on list. TLD-32.2 [Chair] Determine DNS-SEC plans and need for support from DNS-WG No registries have advised Chair of plans to implement DNS-SEC. A couple have indicated that guidance from DNS-WG would be welcome. One has indicated that preparatory study is in progress. Done TLD-32.3 [Chair] Advise DB-WG of number of registries planning to use RIPE whois code Nine registries are either using or considering using the code. Done TLD-32.4 [Philippe Renaut] Present NIC-FR directory work at Vienna Done TLD-32.5 [Mike Norris] Co-ordinate review of RIPE-152 Agreed: review of RIPE-152 is not necessary at this time. Closed as OBE HARMONIC: Directory Service of NIC.FR Presentation by Philippe Renaut. HARMONIC web front-end supports query by (partial) domain name, business area or geographical location with multilingual presentation. Architecture provides for access to multiple, distributed databases. Question: are other registries prepared to make their data available in pilot project using HARMONIC interface ? See http://harmonic.nic.fr. CENTR Update Presentation by Fay Howard. RIPE-CENTR Project winding down. CENTR to incorporate in England and to locate in Oxford. Fay Howard appointed as General Manager. CENTR will be recruiting: technical and administrative staff. Technical workshop planned with RIPE-34. See http://www.centr.org. ICANN/DNSO Update Presentation by Fay Howard. Paris, BMW, Singapore. CENTR participation in consensus-building. DNSO Formation, Constituencies and General Assembly. Inaugural Meetings in Berlin later this month. See http://www.icann.org. New Actions TLD-33.1 [Chair] Provide minutes for RIPE-32 TLD-WG. TLD-33.2 [Chair] Obtain information from registries on plans for continued dependency on RIPE DB for domain objects. [ Notes added after the closing plenary session: Feedback during the plenary suggests that I have expressed this action item far too tersely for clarity. Several issues arise here: the large number of domain objects in the RIPE DB, authority for these objects and appropriateness of this location for them, quality of data in these objects, possibility of distributing data among several databases, coherency of operational contact data, single point of initial reference, control of access to the data, data privacy, and possible differences in policy among registries. These issues need to be discussed in co-ordination with DB WG, next requirements determined, and corresponding resources identified. -- Niall O'Reilly ] TLD-33.3 [Chair] Request information from registries on whether they are prepared to make their data available for pilot project using HARMONIC interface. TLD-33.4 [Chair] Place Future Direction of TLD-WG on Agenda for RIPE-34 and stimulate preparatory discussion on mailing list. TLD-33.5 [All] Contribute to workplan discussion on mailing list. Question from Mike Norris relating to the maintenance of domain objects in the RIPE database. Question: would it be possible to broaden that and make a copy on the database working group? The people might have comments on that. Niall is keeping in close contact with Wilfried Woeber on that. Dfk is concerned 32.2 is formulated in the sense of dependency might be a broader issue on RIPE in general. What does the group think about this. It does not just concern CENTR or the TLD working group. Wilfried Woeber noted that we seem to be moving into new field. We were forced to start thinking about the logical relationship of where certain data is stored. Who is supposed to store the data who is supposed to provide some rubber stamping to certain data. His feeling is that we have to identify and technically describe the problem first, this is a new issue. There are 3 different sets of data in the big database in Amsterdam, namely IP, routing, and domain data. The quality of the information differs depending on which set it originates from. This has to be discussed during the next meeting. What and who will work on this? IPv6 WG ------- Chair: David Kessens Attendees: 100+ Scribe: Petra Zeidler The IPv6 draft policy document was presented and discussed. The draft can be found on the RIPE NCC website at http://www.ripe.net/lir/registries/ipv6.html The IPv6 working group approved the policies outlined in the document, however further work is need to complete the document. The IPv6 tutorial as given on Tuesday, 4 May 1999 will be repeated at some point later on. David Kessens stated that this pointer will be in the minutes of the IPv6 working group session and posted to the ripe-list. Presentation Jan Czmok: http://engr.gigabell.net/ipv6/pres/ Actions: - The RIPE NCC is to submit the IPv6 policy document to IANA and request address space. EIX WG ------ Chair: Fearghas Mckay Attendees: 45 Scribe: Chris Fletcher 1 INTRO last time asked for Y2K so it is on the agenda 2 SCRIBE none 3 Czech - Boris ? NIX - www.nix.cz aug 1996 8 Founding members non-profit now 21(?) members located in 10th floor Prague TV tower. Czech radio communications - telco problems getting other carriers in. now 100Mb switch capacity problems mean separate peerings around NIX no stats national:international traffic -> 50:50 (due to language). 5u rack space max 2 circuits to NIX + phone line max 2 ports czk 110 000 - USD 3150 pa Requirements direct routes to 4 root-name servers RIPE LIR peering with one other member GA 4 time a year 2/3 majority for new members Exec committee 3 elected members Future 2nd location in Prague dark fibre interconnect full time staff CZ is small, can they attract multinationals? Slovak - Marek(?) SIX started 1996 21 members read only access to member routers by SIX staff ! considering interconnect with NIX (CZ) little compeition for Internation circuits - expensive. 4 Vienna - Christian No change Moving to larger room Visit - Wed afternoon - meet 14:00 after lunch. 5 Scot - Fergus proposal - www.scotix.net two offers tendered close end of may decision 6 weeks later 6 AMSIX - Rob 56 (actual) + 8 (progress) members carriers upgrading bandwith multiple stm 16 per carrier task force to replace existing catalyst 5000s share ideas about new technology 7 LINX - Nic 72 members > 500 Mbps dropped International connectivity requirements dropped peering requirement to 1 other member no transit dropped technical criteria tightened. rate of growth picked up particularly after change of requirements less than half are just UK. 1/8 US & 1/8 global Future 150+ members with current infrastructure gigabit to members move to telehouse 2000 satellite & regional sites 8 Y2K LINX - complience - checked switches, servers, building access readiness? - conference for ISPs at rollover? BSI - self compliance. AMSIX - Rob checked switches, building access with manual overrides no protection against national disasters. will issue to statement to members VIX - Christian checked switches, airco, UPS (circular dependancies) everyone is waiting for each other ;-) 9 Other Business Christian - Are people allowing extending switched LAN to office, no router at XP? Liman - SEIX push connections to office. Connections come with dark fibre from office to two switches. Wanted to get rid of co-location business. No-one doing resell of connections so hasn't happened. Stockholm City only are allowed to dig streets so they sell cheap dark fibre where people need it. Boris - one member doing this. Keith - do it at layer one, otherwise loose admin control. Rob - members don't trust each other to do it, but it happens and will happen more. Liman - Harder to do private interconnects (backhaul ethernet between routers) eg Multicast. Database WG ----------- Chair: Wilfried Woeber Attendees: ~80-90 Scribe: Ulf Kieber NCC and database WG are going through consolidation at the moment in the sense in that we again had the database operational summary (traditional item on the agenda). We really want a code freeze on the existing database software implementation. There will only be one minor implementation/addtion effort and that is to update the inet6num object but otherwise the ncc is putting most of their effort/resources into progress with the software re-implementation project. Joao Damas from the RIPE NCC gave a presentation and provided background information about the proposed structure of the software system and information on where the NCC is standing at the moment. Getting progress in the reimplementation project is a prerequisite for the ripe region to move to RPSL for the production environment. It is important to have a new code base which allows the ncc to implement new things on top of that and to do things in a more structure way than based on the old code. Database consistency project: The NCC has again allocated human resources to it. All of us together should try to increase the quality of the objects/data being stored in the database. Wilfried will give feedback about this during the RIPE meeting in September or early next year. This project is really making a difference. A certain set of measures should give an indication if we are really making progress or if we only can slow down the rate of deterioration of consistency. Wilfried reported on the role of liaison with IETF activities. There are two drafts being worked on right now which have impact on database activities. The authentication and authorization draft. This paper is approaching final status. Version 0.4 The distributed registry docuement also still on the table. A document by Janos Zsako regarding PGP is being resubmitted as a formal paper. It will soon become a final document. Wilfried continued and stated that he feels that we have to deal with the IPv6 compliance issue. From administrative logistic point of view it seems to give problems. For example checking the interfaces through the other functionalities/components of the whole system. We have found out that RPSL is right now not IPv6 enabled. We might want to think about an RPSL ng. or think about how we are going to implement the IPv6 routing registry in the future. The technical input should come from the routing working group. Wilfried mentioned another thing to think about: IP registry. We are in final stages of having an IP distribution framework. We have to keep track of IPv6 addresses just like we are now keeping track of IPv4 addresses. Wilfried is looking for input from the regional registries as well as other working groups, how to do that. Either we extend one of the existing documents or we come up with a new document. The technical aspects appear to be under control at the moment, the adminstrative environment has to be worked on. Regarding input from the other working groups. We have started to think about issues such as: where do we store data and who is responsible for the maintenance of data and who might be in the position for providing branding/rubber stamping/certificates for certain data. In particular DNS objects as being the majority of objects. Wilfried stated that we really have to start thinking about how to deal with that. The LIR working group discussed the IP tagging proposal, which has to do with earmarking a certain subset of IP addresses as being used for dialup customers. They had a discussion about it which was sparked by the fact that there might be not only one application like smtp mail which might be interested in finding out about the usage of certain address space. We might want to document things like top level domain name servers. This seems to suggest that there is room for application type registries. This is at the moment very fuzzy set of ideas/discussion and it requires more thinking and talking to find our way. Wilfried's major issue is who is going to use that data if we eventually might decide to implement the tools. Who is going to grant the data. Who will fund the resources in the end and how do we make sure we do not make/provide tools noone wants to use in the end, because that would simply be a waste of resources. Netnews WG ---------- Chair: Felix Kugler Attendees: 30 Scribe: Julia Edwards Netnews WG minutes Chair - Felix Kugler Scribe - Julia Edwards, RIPE NCC 1. outstanding actions A30-N3 *OPEN* flowmaps A31-N1 *ONGOING* groupsync (now subproject NHNS) A32-N1 *CLOSED* Test groupsync prototype (now called autd) The open and ongoing actions will be renumbered to better point out the new direction of these projects. 2. Newsbone Reports about current status of Newsbone and the deployment of online monitoring. Presentations about two tools to characterize the QOS of a path between two news servers. 3. Flowmaps Kai Siering is back. He will continue his work on flowmaps. Actions: A33.N1: rewrite of inpath software (Kai Siering) A33.N2: visualization of traffic flows (Kai Siering) 4. groupsync - newsgroup synchronization Two (new) prototypes have been presented: autd by Jonas Luster: based on CVS; work will be proceed outside the scope of this working group. NHNS by Daniel Diaz/Juan Garcia: based on DNS Actions: A33.N3: work on NHNS software (Daniel Diaz/Juan Garcia) A33.N4: "how-to" guide to simplify installation of TLH servers (Elmar Bins) Most slides, this short report and the minutes are available from http://www.switch.ch/netnews/wg/meetings.html. Anti-Spam WG ------------ Chair: Rodney Tillotson Attendees: 44 Scribe: Gerry Berthauer 1 Reviewed progress towards WG objectives -- none 2 Reviewed developments in spam and anti-spam - Collateral spam (your domain named in spam you never see) - System compromise to obtain relaying service + DULs -- list of network addresses allocated for dial-up 3 Discussed current concerns + People are coping with spam in lots of different ways - We want tools to identify spam - We want software to more easily prevent transit 4 CENAR WG work item -- Centre for European Network Abuse Resolution) - No enthusiasm - Unlikely to deliver a result + Consider instead offering spam advice to existing CERTs * Appeal for material on the mailing list; draft for September 5 Code of Conduct WG work item - This group has so far generated no text + Material is available elsewhere (LINX BCP soon, many AUPs) * Offer this material on the list for discussion; draft for September Test Traffic WG --------------- Chair: Martin McCarthy Attendees: 50 Scribe: There was a presentation by Henk Uijterwaal of the RIPE NCC about the test traffic project. http://www.ripe.net/test-traffic/Talks/9905_ripe33/ The working group have a draft charter which hit their mailinglist some time ago. The working group hopes to have that stamped and used by the next RIPE meeting. The working group has started to work on a policy for publishing the collected data from the test traffic project into the public domain or some such idea. This work will start on the mailinglist. - 10. - Next meetings: - RIPE 34 20-24 September 1999 Amsterdam - RIPE 35 21-25 February 2000 Amsterdam - RIPE 36 May 2000 Budapest - RIPE 37 11-15 September 2000 Amsterdam - RIPE 38 22-26 January 2001 Amsterdam - RIPE 39 May 2001 Invitations and suggestions welcome! - 11. - AOB Rob expressed his thanks to Christian Panigl and the Vienna University team for providing the great facilities. He also thanked the companies that sponsored the various social activities. Finally, he extended his thanks to the RIPE NCC for their support in the organisation of the meeting. - 12. - Close

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Final RIR ASO Proposal Submission to ICANN
by Mirjam Kuehne 27 Aug '99

27 Aug '99

Dear Colleagues, Thank you very much for the support received regarding the 'Draft proposal for a MoU-based ASO'. As you know, your support is essential to the process and therefore very much appreciated. Discussions following the announcement of the draft proposal on 8 July 1999, and at the recent open ASO meeting which took place at the IETF in Oslo, modifications to the draft proposal were suggested. Following discussions between the RIR excecutive boards, taking into account the collective interests of our communities, further adjustments were made to the proposal which we believe will enhance the prospect of its adoption by ICANN. A proposal for the formation of an ASO has now been formally submitted to ICANN jointly by the Regional Internet Registries: APNIC, ARIN and RIPE NCC. The 'Proposal for a MoU-based ASO' can be found on the RIPE NCC Web site under the 'Current Issues' section at: http://www.ripe.net/info/ncc/icann.html Below please find the modified sections of the draft text as well as comments supporting the motivation for each of these changes. As the adjustments to this proposal have been made for clarity purposes to ensure fair and open processes in all regions, we hope that we can count on your continued support. Kind Regards, Mirjam Kuehne RIPE NCC 2. The Address Council. a. Members. ----------- [original text:] Each RIR signatory of the MOU will appoint two [2] individuals to the Address Council by means of their own choosing. No individual can serve on the Address Council and be on the staff of a RIR at the same time. [final version:] Each RIR signatory of the MOU will select three [3] individuals to the Address Council using the following process: i Annually the RIR will issue a public call for nominees to the Address Council at least 90 days before the RIR's policy meeting. Any individual can submit a nomination to the RIR. ii The due date for this call shall be 30 days before the meeting. iii The nominees must be individuals. iv A list of all nominees who agree to run for the Address Council must be posted on the RIR's web page at least 15 days before the meeting along with a statement from each nominee who wishes to make one. v Selection of the RIR's members of the Address Council will be made via an open and transparent procedure. The individuals selected for the Address Council must not be staff members of the RIR. COMMENTS: Concerns were raised that having only two [2] Address Council members appointed per region would not allow for sufficient representation. Therefore the number was changed to three [3] per RIR signatory. When additional RIRs sign the MoU this will be revised in order to keep the number of Address Council members at a practical size. Principles for the selection of Address Council members were stated in section 3.b. of the original draft proposal. These methods have been refined and included in this section for further clarification. However, please note that the selection process of the Address Council members will be defined by the regions via an open and transparent procedure. b. Term. -------- [original text:] The term of Address Council members will be 2 years. Removal will be pursuant to procedures established through the MOU. (Initial terms will be 1 and 2 years to provide initial conditions for staggered terms.) [final version:] The term of Address Council members will be 3 years. Removal will be pursuant to procedures established through the MOU. (Initial terms will be 1, 2 and 3 years to provide initial conditions for staggered terms.) COMMENTS: With the increased number of Address Coucil members one additonal term has been defined. c. Powers/Duties of the Address Council. ---------------------------------------- ii Qualifications of ICANN Directors. [original text:] No more than 1 of the ASO-appointed Directors may come from the same geographic region. [final version:] a) No more than 1 ASO-appointed Director may come from the same geographic region. (This proposal assumes the regions defined in the ICANN by-laws.) b) No ASO-appointed Director may serve simultaneously on the Address Council. COMMENTS: The additional sentence under a) is to clarify the word 'region' in this context. Parapraph b) was added as no clear prohibition against Address Council members also serving on the ICANN board was stated. d. Address Policy Development. ------------------------------ [final version:] One paragraph was added to this section: In addition the Address Council may accept, for consideration, proposals for changes to global IP address policy from any interested individual. COMMENT: One may imagine a circumstance where it would be more practical to approach the ASO directly to support the fair and open consideration of a proposal in order to stress equal opportunity for all interested parties. In any case, all proposals received by the ASO will be reviewed by the RIR signaories and the community as described in this section following the above noted addition: In all cases when the Address Council reviews proposals for new global policies or proposed modification to existing policies in this area it will first solicit the opinions of all of the RIR signatories of the MOU and of the public. 3. Annual Open Meeting. (General Assembly) a. Hosting an open meeting. --------------------------- [original text:] The Address Council will periodically host an open meeting ("General Assembly") for promoting discussion and receiving input regarding the work of the ASO. A General Assembly meeting will be held once per year, and will permit open participation by all interested individuals. [final version:] The Address Council will periodically host an open meeting ("General Assembly") for promoting discussion and receiving input regarding the work of the ASO. A General Assembly meeting will be held *at least* once per year, and will permit open participation by all interested individuals. COMMENT: It was felt that the number of meetings should not be restricted in this document. The important point here is that there should be *at least* one meeting per year. b. Selection of Address Council Members. ---------------------------------------- [original text:] Ninety days prior to each General Assembly, ICANN and the Address Council shall make an open call for nominations to any potential vacancies in the Address Council. The results of this call will be forwarded to each RIR signatory to the MOU for their information. Each RIR signatory to the ASO MOU will be entitled to select two [2] members of the Address Council by means of its own choosing. The terms of the appointees will be determined by the appointing RIR. [final version:] Ninety days prior to each annual open meeting, ICANN and the Address Council shall make an open call for nominations to any potential vacancies in the Address Council. The results of this call will be forwarded to each RIR signatory to the MOU for their information. Each RIR signatory to the ASO MOU will be entitled to select three [3] members of the Address Council using the process described in Section 2a. COMMENT: This has been changed in order to make the section consistent with the principles outlined in section 2.a (see above). 4. Open Proceedings and Documents. b. ASO Proceedings ------------------ [original text:] All discussions of ASO business will be conducted on or reported on a publicly-archived mailing list accessible through the ICANN/ASO web site. The schedule for the ASO meetings will be posted 90 days in advance of the meeting date. The agenda for the Address Council and annual open meetings will be posted on the ICANN/ASO web site at least 30 days before the meetings. The minutes from all ASO meetings will be publicly posted on the ICANN/ASO web site within 30 days of the meeting. [final version:] All discussions regarding ASO policy formation will be conducted on or reported on a publicly-archived mailing list accessible through the ASO web site. The schedule for the ASO meetings will be posted 90 days in advance of the meeting date. The agenda for the Address Council and annual open meetings will be posted on the ASO web site at least 30 days before the meetings. The minutes from all ASO meetings will be publicly posted on the ASO web site within 30 days of the meeting. In the unlikely event that the policy formation discussions involve confidential commercial data that was presented in an address allocation process the above disclosures must be done in a way to protect the confidentially of that data. COMMENT: The location of the documentation to be published has been more clearly specified (on the ASO web site). The last sentence has been added in order to explicitly exempt confidential data from publication as defined in the existing RIR operational procedures. 6. Recognition. [original text:] 7) That the introduction of a new RIR must be based on a "Sound Business Plan". The plan must be reviewed by ICANN and by the existing RIRs. The process for creating a new RIR must be included in the MOU. [final version:] 6) That the proposed RIR has clearly defined procedures open to all interested parties regarding ensuring fair representation of constituents within the region of coverage in the policy development process. COMMENT: This paragraph was added in order to ensure open and transparent processes of policy development in all new and existing RIRs. For your information, please note that the order of points in appendix A has slightly changed, resulting in the number change noted above.

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RIPE 34 Meeting in Amsterdam - Reminder
by RIPE NCC Meeting Registration 17 Aug '99

17 Aug '99

Dear Colleagues, [ Apologies for duplicate mails ] We would like to remind you that the registration for RIPE 34 in Amsterdam: 21 - 24 September 1999, has been opened. On-site registration will open on Tuesday 21st September. Please note: - To avoid wait queues at the registration desk on-site we encourage pre-payment by credit card. The registration fee for this meeting is EUR 170.00 (this includes refreshments and lunches) and the dinner fee is EUR 55.00. However, if payment is received before 10th September 1999 pre-payment cut-off date, you will receive a pre-registration discount of EUR 50.00. Therefore, the fee for attendees paying before the cut-off date is EUR 120.00 for the meeting and 55.00 EUR for the RIPE dinner event. Please note that due to organisational difficulties the IPv6 tutorial of Tuesday 21st will no longer take place. This training will be rescheduled for RIPE 35 in February 2000. Confirmation of Registration: For your convenience we have prepared a fax form for sending your credit card number. This form is attached to the acknowledgement of your registration and we encourage you to use it when possible. Alternatively you can register using our secure website at: https://www.ripe.net/meetings/ripe/form34.html (encrypted form) http://www.ripe.net/meetings/ripe/nsform34.html (non-encrypted form) If you wish to register for this meeting but have no access to the World Wide Web, please contact us and we will send you a registration form by e-mail. You will receive a second acknowledgement by e-mail as soon your payment has been processed. In addition, you will find the receipt for your payment in your conference envelope. For more details please see: "RIPE Meeting Fees and Refunds" at: http://www.ripe.net/meetings/ripe/meeting-int.html Participants requiring a visa to enter the Netherlands are advised to begin the required procedures as soon as possible. The RIPE Meeting organisers are pleased to provide letters of invitation to those attendees requiring them. Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us at <meeting(a)ripe.net>. Kind regards, Naomi de Bruyn RIPE Meeting Registrations

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RIPE Region Hostcount for July 1999
by RIPE Hostcount Maintainer 05 Aug '99

05 Aug '99

Dear All, below is the hostcount for July 1999. The table shows an increase since last month of around 670,000 (or 7,9%) to a total of almost 9,150,000 hosts in the DNS in Europe and surrounding areas. The it domain shows the highest increase for July with approximately 350,000 hosts more than in June. Background information and more statistics are available at http://www.ripe.net/statistics/hostcount/ - Brief Notes on this Hostcount - The large increase in the it domain was due in part to the addition of several 'huge' domains which were previously blocked. The large increase in fi was due to a major provider allowing zone transfers from one of their secondary nameservers which had been accidentally blocked last month. - Credits - I would like to thank all people who help me to create the hostcount every month by counting hosts locally: ad Joan Marc Lauga am Edgar D Danielyan at Gerhard Winkler be DNS-BE Registration Office ch Marcel Schneider cy Vasoula Papapetrou cz Jiri Orsag de Peter Koch dk Morten Christensen eg Network Operator es Susana Gayo. CSIC-RedIRIS fr Annie Renard gr Dimitris Zisiadis hr Ivan Maric ie Mike Norris il Shuki Kenan is Marius Olafsson it Maurizio Martinelli Daniele Vannozzi li Marcel Schneider lt Daiva Tamulioniene mk Goran Muratovski mt Robert Sultana no Havard Eidnes pl Mirek Luc pt Armando Domingues ro Eugenie Staicut ru Andrey Dobrotsvetov sk Lubos Elias sm Maurizio Martinelli Daniele Vannozzi tr Hostcount Administrator uk Robert Stone Kevin Hoadley If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to contact me. Kind regards, Lee Wilmot RIPE NCC RIPE DNS Hostcount Previous Count : Tue Jul 13 1999 This Count : Wed Aug 4 1999 CY SOA COUNTED DUPL REAL CHANGE ============================================================== ad 320 1072 454 618 + 1 ae 550 17910 489 17421 - 232 al 20 226 14 212 + 2 am 266 1358 315 1043 - 198 at 42517 267422 77342 190080 + 3732 az 109 607 65 542 + 166 ba 116 2190 135 2055 + 644 be 18839 342859 33383 309476 - 2484 bf 15 392 83 309 + 7 bg 820 17036 1667 15369 + 199 bh 32 1694 179 1515 + 99 bj 14 128 11 117 - 1 by 197 1459 312 1147 + 12 cf 2 7 0 7 0 ch 69772 353013 90940 262073 - 6633 ci 106 343 63 280 + 43 cm 7 227 3 224 - 14 cv 13 39 34 5 - 13 cy 810 5581 349 5232 + 47 cz 35731 131211 25925 105286 + 3100 de 464296 2802512 1276247 1526265 + 51741 dj 6 44 6 38 - 1 dk 82955 409800 92094 317706 + 8552 dz 13 64 6 58 - 121 ee 3239 29149 2257 26892 - 262 eg 869 2877 398 2479 - 92 er 1 2 0 2 0 es 15544 393005 23859 369146 + 7211 fi 13014 511217 36546 474671 + 63237 fo 258 913 46 867 + 10 fr 44386 702557 83705 618852 + 11897 ga 15 48 25 23 - 1 gb 2 27 0 27 0 ge 76 1010 49 961 + 16 gg 222 270 168 102 + 7 gh 18 339 37 302 + 296 gi 161 958 601 357 + 1 gl 285 2768 541 2227 + 14 gn 2 33 0 33 + 23 gq 5 11 6 5 0 gr 9343 74529 7849 66680 + 3481 gw 2 21 1 20 0 hr 2724 18112 4458 13654 + 134 hu 9835 126435 17771 108664 + 3200 ie 8275 73760 8547 65213 + 4405 il 10850 169598 35218 134380 + 3204 im 196 237 99 138 + 17 iq 1 0 0 0 0 ir 91 1081 107 974 - 72 is 2380 29078 1995 27083 + 1415 it 68236 641784 88563 553221 +355662 je 213 216 96 120 + 5 jo 492 1421 463 958 + 15 ke 372 3457 963 2494 + 14 kg 89 1275 170 1105 + 29 kz 528 3928 760 3168 + 500 lb 1118 4123 1315 2808 + 58 li 1269 2432 1147 1285 - 459 lr 1 0 0 0 0 lt 2053 13236 1129 12107 + 227 lu 2703 10812 1862 8950 + 314 lv 1427 20279 4250 16029 + 49 ma 529 3461 814 2647 + 398 mc 217 625 230 395 - 133 mk 543 1825 248 1577 + 16 ml 17 200 9 191 + 42 mt 396 5978 552 5426 - 6 ne 13 85 4 81 - 47 ng 246 829 576 253 + 22 nl 82462 862957 116648 746309 + 21453 no 27619 373281 24569 348712 + 2114 om 27 2895 25 2870 + 16 pl 27096 223216 57339 165877 + 23826 pt 9161 78348 11565 66783 + 298 qa 33 1075 10 1065 + 1 ro 3258 37219 5262 31957 + 3428 ru 24577 257938 56051 201887 + 309 sa 665 4380 900 3480 + 34 se 34836 541664 39022 502642 + 4315 si 4444 26363 3437 22926 + 81 sj 1 0 0 0 0 sk 9346 34415 8567 25848 - 244 sl 7 74 0 74 + 74 sm 99 363 23 340 + 5 sn 129 1094 267 827 + 91 su 1656 27520 1788 25732 - 478 sy 4 1 0 1 0 tj 182 1145 775 370 + 40 tm 1633 2951 1658 1293 + 45 tn 1 76 48 28 + 1 tr 9234 99809 14109 85700 + 347 ua 3401 41598 15638 25960 + 1523 ug 29 165 20 145 + 11 uk 235251 2000633 406127 1594506 + 98271 uz 236 621 333 288 - 71 va 2 8 0 8 0 ye 33 47 20 27 - 1 yu 2786 10420 1444 8976 + 586 ============================================================== 98 1397990 11841471 2693195 9148276 +669570

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