November 1996 - ripe-list - mailman.ripe.net

SIRCE - again (this is the intended text of my reflection...)
by Lajos Balint 28 Nov '96

28 Nov '96

Dear Daniel, By reflecting your Wed, 27 Nov 1996 16:27:38 +0100 e-mail, let me first emphasize that my original message didn't aim at hurting anybody. It was a trial of explaining the situation (i.e. the relatively low level of commitments) and also our own hesitation until now. If I try to reflect your reaction, I have to further explain what I wrote yesterday, and here I'm in a really uncomfortable situation. While I don't want to be impolite, and I try to avoid offending you, I'm forced to go into some more details. What I wanted to point out in my yesterday message was that the situation was more complex than it might have turned out of the exchange of messages about commitments. What I felt in the recent period of time was that ISPs were repeatedly urged to make their commitments so that they even could feel blamed by not doing so. Let me begin with repeating my last sentence of my previous message: I hope that the problem is not overall lack of interest in European CERT coordination but just a result of the still open situation about the CERT coordination issue, in general. Namely: RIPE NCC started to collect commitments before TERENA made a decision. And, although RIPE-149 and TIPE-150 did talk about TERENA's intent, RIPE NCC did behave during the last weeks like suggesting that the ISP's had to make a decision about your plan. I have to stress that RIPE NCC is always excellent in doing its job but, probably (and by my sincere belief) with the honest will, in this case did forget to take into consideration all the rules of the game. I try to understand your reaction to my earlier message (and the conduct how you handle the CERT coordination matter) but I mustn't forget the interests of the service providers. And I also should keep in mind the other potential CERT coordinators, too. The service providers need the best coordination service, so their interest is to wait until the (hopefully most advantageous) decision by TERENA is made. On the other hand, the potential CERT coordinators are well behaving if they wait until TERERNA decides about their proposals, and organization of CERT coordination is to be started by the selected one, as soon as the decision is made. You are right: documents RIPE-149 and RIPE-150 are, as I emphasized in my first message, well describing all the details. Of course, if I did speak about "misleading", I didn't think of an intentional thing. The problem is with what followed: the forceful activity toward collecting commitments. This was really a disturbing process: readers of your messages could feel uncomfortable by not committing. And this is what I called misleading (sorry for the wording, probably by a better knowledge of English I could have found a more appropriate expression): if I feel a pressure to do something without real reasons of doing that, I'm mislead by being bombarded. If you don't agree with my above thoughts, it is understandable. Your goal was (is) to get support and you did think that the way you selected was the appropriate one. Maybe there are some ISPs (ISP representatives) being happy with the way you choose. However, I guess, I'm not alone with my feelings about the situation. Originally I didn't want to send my previous message by going into details of the process. I simply wanted to inform you yesterday (the deadline) just about HUNGARNET's interest in the CERT coordination project, by adding that if the RIPE NCC would be selected, HUNGARNET would be ready to commit ECU 500. However, in the last minute there was your reaction to Petter's message which I didn't want to leave without comments. Although Petter himself didn't react your reflection, somebody had to react in favour of him. He was correct with all of his words. But the reaction he did get was not the most appropriate one: it didn't reflect Petter's message about not committing before TERENA's decision but did, by a certain way, criticise his behaviour. Just what I tried to point out above about RIPE NCC's pressurizing manner in this matter. Moreover, your wording had a certain kind of prejudice, a kind of assuming something fishy about the CERT TAG, which is more than impolite from you. That's why I tried to go into details about the full process and not just about HUNGARNET's conditional commitment. Of course, I didn't want to generate a controversy but only wanted to draw the attention of all interested parties to another side of the coin. Fraankly saying, I'm sorry for this debate. I admire RIPE NCC and especially you for your excellent work in general. I'm also sure that if finally the RIPE NCC will be selected by TERENA for European CERT coordination, the task will be performed by a similarly high quality and enthusiasm. (Which doesn't mean any qualification of the other candidates.) Moreover, if the RIPE NCC will be the winner, HUNGARNET will fully support your CERT coordination activity, too. But even so, I mustn't hide the truth (at least by my feelings). Again I emphasize: without the intention of hurting anybody, but just for helping. I hope that also you, Daniel, have a more fragmented picture now of the situation, even if you possibly don't agree with all the details of my arguments. Let me finish again by my sincere words: Regards and best wishes (to you and to the RIPE NCC, too), Lajos P.s.: I would be glad not to continue with this debate. I admit that the RIPE NCC did prepare a set of attractive documents. I admit that, if selected by TERENA, RIPE NCC would surely be an excellent CERT coordinator. I emphasize again that HUNGARNET is interested in European CERT coordination and is ready to commit to the prospective coordinator to be selected by TERENA (either the RIPE NCC or any other organization). I'm ready to admit that my wording about "misleading" was not the fortunate one. On the other hand, I stress that advance collecting of commitments and especially the manner of the process are not fully agreeable. And I stress again that your reflection to Petter's message wasn't the fortunate one. I hope that you are satisfied with this summary, and I'm in favour of stopping further arguing. --- I wanted to launch this message yesterday evening but - the devil never sleeps - unfortunately I launched again my previous text, as I realized this morning. Sorry for that. I also had to re-type my message because I did delete it unintentionally :-( Let me add that in the meantime I have read your message about Questionnaire Clarifications which is of course an agreeable continuation of the on-going process.

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SIRCE - again
by Lajos Balint 27 Nov '96

27 Nov '96

Dear Daniel, I have studied all the SIRCE-related materials (at least I think that all of them did reach me): - your Tue, 05 Nov 1996 13:23:44 +0100 message - the RIPE-149 document - the RIPE-150 document - your Thu, 14 Nov 1996 16:36:22 +0100 message - your reports about the collected commitments - RIPE NCC Feedback Dept's Tue, 26 Nov 1996 16:52:09 +0100 message - Petter Kongshaug's message of Wed, 27 Nov 1996 07:28:51 +0100 - your Wed, 27 Nov 1996 09:27:30 +0100 message reflecting Petter's one I'm a bit disturbed by the full process. On one hand, the RIPE NCC did prepare a well elaborated project plan (as it is common with any RIPE NCC activities). However, on the other hand, nothing was mentioned about the background situation which Petter is talking about. While potential supporters are well informed about the plans of the RIPE NCC, they are mislead by the presentation: most of them even don't know about the full picture. An only note is touching the question in its entirety, namely by your Thu, 14 Nov 1996 16:36:22 +0100 message: > Q: Am I bound to my commitment if TERENA decides to execute SIRCE > differently than proposed in ripe-150? > > A: No. The commitment is specifically for the project proposed in > ripe-150. If a different proposal is preferred by TERENA, we will > provide information about it and it is up to you to decide whether you > want to get involved. While I express the interest of HUNGARNET in a Europe-wide CERT coordination, I have to emphasize that I fully support Petter's view: > TERENA has set up a CERT TAG to evaluate candidates for a European > CERT. UNINETT ... wait to see the prefered candidate, and > do not want to conclude on CIRCE before the evaluation is done. (I did intentionally omit that part of Petter's message saying that > ... UNINETT is part of this TAG ... because this fact is irrelevant regarding UNINETT's intentions but underlines only the fact that an ISP, being fortunate enough to know about the background situation, doesn't want to make any commitment before TERENA evaluates the candidates, including the RIPE NCC.) In view of the above comments, let me express HUNGARNET's intention to subscribe the prospective European CERT coordination. If the selected coordinator will be the RIPE NCC (in the frameworks of the planned SIRCE project), HUNGARNET will be ready to commit ECU 500. If the selected coordinator will be a different organization, HUNGARNET will probably join the CERT coordination activity selected by TERENA. In addition, let me mention that Petter's message was correct with respect to the questionnaire, too: > Sorry for not using your form, but i did not find any suitable statements. A suitable statement could have been eg. %STJ We wait for a decision made by TERENA about European CERT coordination. (or something similar). Without such an option, Petter couldn't find any suitable statement, indeed, because only this kind of statement could express suitably why UNINETT didn't commit to SIRCE before your deadline. Finally, I don't know why the amount of commitments is relatively low. If ISPs didn't react because they share Petter's view (and mine, too), that's ok. If the reason is lack of interest in CERT coordination, in general, that's worse. Hopefully at the end, a really Europe-wide coverage of CERT coordination will be achieved - either by SIRCE or by some other project. Regards and best wishes, Lajos

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SIRCE
by Lajos Balint 27 Nov '96

27 Nov '96

Dear Daniel, I have studied all the SIRCE-related materials (at least I think that all of them did reach me): - your Tue, 05 Nov 1996 13:23:44 +0100 message - the RIPE-149 document - the RIPE-150 document - your Thu, 14 Nov 1996 16:36:22 +0100 message - your reports about the collected commitments - RIPE NCC Feedback Dept's Tue, 26 Nov 1996 16:52:09 +0100 message - Petter Kongshaug's message of Wed, 27 Nov 1996 07:28:51 +0100 - your Wed, 27 Nov 1996 09:27:30 +0100 message reflecting Petter's one I'm a bit disturbed by the full process. On one hand, the RIPE NCC did prepare a well elaborated project plan (as it is common with any RIPE NCC activities). However, on the other hand, nothing was mentioned about the background situation which Petter is talking about. While potential supporters are well informed about the plans of the RIPE NCC, they are mislead by the presentation: most of them even don't know about the full picture. An only note is touching the question in its entirety, namely by your Thu, 14 Nov 1996 16:36:22 +0100 message: > Q: Am I bound to my commitment if TERENA decides to execute SIRCE > differently than proposed in ripe-150? > > A: No. The commitment is specifically for the project proposed in > ripe-150. If a different proposal is preferred by TERENA, we will > provide information about it and it is up to you to decide whether you > want to get involved. While I express the interest of HUNGARNET in a Europe-wide CERT coordination, I have to emphasize that I fully support Petter's view: > TERENA has set up a CERT TAG to evaluate candidates for a European > CERT. UNINETT ... wait to see the prefered candidate, and > do not want to conclude on CIRCE before the evaluation is done. (I did intentionally omit that part of Petter's message saying that > ... UNINETT is part of this TAG ... because this fact is irrelevant regarding UNINETT's intentions but underlines only the fact that an ISP, being fortunate enough to know about the background situation, doesn't want to make any commitment before TERENA evaluates the candidates, including the RIPE NCC.) In view of the above comments, let me express HUNGARNET's intention to subscribe the prospective European CERT coordination. If the selected coordinator will be the RIPE NCC (in the frameworks of the planned SIRCE project), HUNGARNET will be ready to commit ECU 500. If the selected coordinator will be a different organization, HUNGARNET will probably join the CERT coordination activity selected by TERENA. In addition, let me mention that Petter's message was correct with respect to the questionnaire, too: > Sorry for not using your form, but i did not find any suitable statements. A suitable statement could have been eg. %STJ We wait for a decision made by TERENA about European CERT coordination. (or something similar). Without such an option, Petter couldn't find any suitable statement, indeed, because only this kind of statement could express suitably why UNINETT didn't commit to SIRCE before your deadline. Finally, I don't know why the amount of commitments is relatively low. If ISPs didn't react because they share Petter's view (and mine, too), that's ok. If the reason is lack of interest in CERT coordination, in general, that's worse. Hopefully at the end, a really Europe-wide coverage of CERT coordination will be achieved - either by SIRCE or by some other project. Regards and best wishes, Lajos

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Re: Re: SV: SIRCE: Action Needed !
by RIPE NCC Billing Department 27 Nov '96

27 Nov '96

Dear Daniel David, Thank you for committing to fund the SIRCE pilot project. We have received your data as follows: Name: Daniel David Position: President Registry ID: de.ipf Committed amount (ECU): 1000 Billing reference: RIPE/SIRCE Your registration has been successful. Kind regards, Roderik Muit RIPE NCC Billing Department

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Re: SV: SIRCE: Action Needed !
by Daniel David 27 Nov '96

27 Nov '96

At 22:17 19.11.96 +-100, you wrote: >%START > >%FORM [sirce9601] > >I herby commit to contribute the ECU amount indicated to the >SIRCE pilot project as defined in ripe-150 and the documents >it refers to. I confirm that I have authority to commit >my organisation for this contribution. I expect to be invoiced >for this contribution as soon as the project will have started. > >Please put information between the brackets. > >Please give your full name. > >%NAME [Daniel David] > >Please give your position in the organisation. > >%POS [President] > >Specify the registry ID of your organisation if it has one. > >%REGID [de.ipf] > >If you have *not* specified a registry ID above, please give the >full organisation name and billing address. We will contact >you for more details if necessary. > >%ORGNAME [] > >%ADDRESS [] > >Committed amount in ECU. Minimum is ECU 500. Excludes VAT where applicable. > >%AMOUNT [1000] > >Any billing reference that you may wish to be mentioned on the invoice. > >%BILLREF [RIPE/SIRCE] > >%END > > > > > IPF.NET GmbH Mainzer Landstr. 46 Tel: +49 69 17084-20 Daniel David 60325 Frankfurt Fax: +49 69 17084-33

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SIRCE Funding Update
by Daniel Karrenberg 26 Nov '96

26 Nov '96

Commitments currently stand at almost 30kECU or "only" 20% of the expected amunt. Thanks to the people who made a commitment; they are listed in chronological order below. Since commitments are still coming in we have extended the deadline to Friday November 29th. See the form attached. We are very much interested to know why the response is so much less than expected. We will therefore circulate a questionnaire to get some of the answers. Daniel Karrenberg RIPE NCC Organisation name Person commit (ECU) pi.se AB Pontus Ekman 1000 ACONET Wilfried Woeber 1000 RedIRIS-CSIC Victor Castelo 1000 Academic Computer Centre, CYFRONET-KRAKO Karol Franczak 500 IPGlobal, Informatica e Telecomunicacoes Pedro Ramalho Carlos 500 Teleport C&S GmbH. Christoph Maerk 500 BT Public Internet Service Nigel Roy Titley 1000 Tele Greenland Michael Schultz 1000 SpaceNet GmbH Sebastian v. Bomhard 750 Unisource Business Networks Italy Mauro Magrassi 1000 Sontheimer Datentechnik GmbH Bernd Sontheimer 500 ECRC GmbH Dave Morton 1000 Tele2/SWIPnet Jorgen Ericsson 1000 Nacamar Klaus Landefeld 1000 SIBS - Sociedade Interbancaria de Servic Jose Eduardo Pina Mi 1000 LITNET Daiva Tamulioniene 500 INRIA Annie Renard 500 EUnet Communications Services BV Per Gregers Bilse 1500 HogiaNet Kenneth Hybner 1000 AT&T Internet Services Tankut Turhan, Henk 1000 CESNET Pavel Vachek 500 OTEnet S.A. Theodore Thanopoulos 1000 HEAnet John Hayden 1000 U-NET Limited Stuart Muckley 500 Telia AB J=F6rgen I Larsson 1000 GTN Andreas Baess 1000 INS GmbH Andreas Frackowiak 1000 NASK - Research and Academic Network in Krzysztof Silicki 500 Xlink Michael Rotert 1000 Entreprise des Postes et Telecommunicati Thierry Coutelier 500 HPT - Croatian Post and Telecomm, Teleco Ivan Sedinic 1000 Unisource Business Networks (Schweiz) AG Philip Bridge 1000 Clinet Heikki Suonsivu 1000 InComA Ltd. Gregory Dmitriev 1000 ----- Total: 29250 ------ send this form to <biling(a)ripe.net> ------- %START %FORM [sirce9601] I herby commit to contribute the ECU amount indicated to the SIRCE pilot project as defined in ripe-150 and the documents it refers to. I confirm that I have authority to commit my organisation for this contribution. I expect to be invoiced for this contribution as soon as the project will have started. Please put information between the brackets. Please give your full name. %NAME [ ] Please give your position in the organisation. %POS [ ] Specify the registry ID of your organisation if it has one. %REGID [ ] If you have *not* specified a registry ID above, please give the full organisation name and billing address. We will contact you for more details if necessary. %ORGNAME [ ] %ADDRESS [ ] Committed amount in ECU. Minimum is ECU 500. Excludes VAT where applicable. %AMOUNT [ ] Any billing reference that you may wish to be mentioned on the invoice. %BILLREF [ ] %END

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SIRCE Funding
by Daniel Karrenberg 22 Nov '96

22 Nov '96

Dear colleagues, thank you very much for the additional commitments. Five days from the deadline of November 27th we have 15% of the expected commitments. below you find the latest list in order of receipt. If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Regards Daniel Karrenberg RIPE NCC Manager Organisation name Person commit (ECU) pi.se AB Pontus Ekman 1000 ACONET Wilfried Woeber 1000 RedIRIS-CSIC Victor Castelo 1000 Academic Computer Centre, CYFRONET-KRAKO Karol Franczak 500 IPGlobal, Informatica e Telecomunicacoes Pedro Ramalho Carlos 500 Teleport C&S GmbH. Christoph Maerk 500 BT Public Internet Service Nigel Roy Titley 1000 Tele Greenland Michael Schultz 1000 SpaceNet GmbH Sebastian v. Bomhard 750 Unisource Business Networks Italy Mauro Magrassi 1000 Sontheimer Datentechnik GmbH Bernd Sontheimer 500 ECRC GmbH Dave Morton 1000 Tele2/SWIPnet Jorgen Ericsson 1000 Nacamar Klaus Landefeld 1000 SIBS - Sociedade Interbancaria de Servic Jose Eduardo Pina Mi 1000 LITNET Daiva Tamulioniene 500 INRIA Annie Renard 500 EUnet Communications Services BV Per Gregers Bilse 1500 HogiaNet Kenneth Hybner 1000 AT&T Internet Services Tankut Turhan, Henk 1000 CESNET Pavel Vachek 500 OTEnet S.A. Theodore Thanopoulos 1000 HEAnet John Hayden 1000 U-NET Limited Stuart Muckley 500 Telia AB J=F6rgen I Larsson 1000 GTN Andreas Baess 1000 INS GmbH Andreas Frackowiak 1000 ----- Total: 23250

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Re: SIRCE Funding
by Marco Negri 21 Nov '96

21 Nov '96

Andrea, per favore, fammi sapere qualcosa in piu' su questo SIRCE!!! Potrebbe essere utile contribuire con 500~1000 ECU. Bye Marco At 16.40 19/11/96 +0100, Daniel Karrenberg wrote: > >Dear contributors, dear colleagues, > >the interest in an ISP-driven security incident coordination service is >still much lower than expected. The total of all commitments is less >than 8% of the expected value. If there is no significant change in >this trend before November 27th the RIPE NCC will have to withdraw its >proposal for running the pilot. That is the right thing to do if there >is really little interest. However it is wrong if there is interest but >the right people do not react or get told about this. > >Here is a summary of the commitments so far in the order of receipt. >Thanks to all of the people and organisations below: > >Organisation name Person commit (ECU) > >pi.se AB Pontus Ekman 1000 >ACONET Wilfried Woeber 1000 >RedIRIS-CSIC Victor Castelo 1000 >Academic Computer Centre, CYFRONET-KRAKO Karol Franczak 500 >IPGlobal, Informatica e Telecomunicacoes Pedro Ramalho Carlos 500 >Teleport C&S GmbH. Christoph Maerk 500 >BT Public Internet Service Nigel Roy Titley 1000 >Tele Greenland Michael Schultz 1000 >SpaceNet GmbH Sebastian v. Bomhard 750 >Unisource Business Networks Italy Mauro Magrassi 1000 >Sontheimer Datentechnik GmbH Bernd Sontheimer 500 >ECRC GmbH Dave Morton 1000 >Tele2/SWIPnet Jorgen Ericsson 1000 >Nacamar Klaus Landefeld 1000 > ----- > > Total: 11750 > > > -- Marco Negri - I.NET High Quality ISP Phone : +39-2-40906 ext 1 I.NET e' associata ad AIIP Fax : +39-2-40906 ext 262 I-20153 V. Caldera, 21 - Milano, Italy e-mail : Marco.Negri(a)INet.It

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SV: SIRCE: Action Needed !
by Kenneth Hybner 19 Nov '96

19 Nov '96

%START %FORM [sirce9601] I herby commit to contribute the ECU amount indicated to the SIRCE pilot project as defined in ripe-150 and the documents it refers to. I confirm that I have authority to commit my organisation for this contribution. I expect to be invoiced for this contribution as soon as the project will have started. Please put information between the brackets. Please give your full name. %NAME [Kenneth Hybner] Please give your position in the organisation. %POS [President] Specify the registry ID of your organisation if it has one. %REGID [se.hogianet] If you have *not* specified a registry ID above, please give the full organisation name and billing address. We will contact you for more details if necessary. %ORGNAME [] %ADDRESS [] Committed amount in ECU. Minimum is ECU 500. Excludes VAT where applicable. %AMOUNT [1000] Any billing reference that you may wish to be mentioned on the invoice. %BILLREF [RIPE/SIRCE] %END

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SIRCE Funding
by Daniel Karrenberg 19 Nov '96

19 Nov '96

Dear contributors, dear colleagues, the interest in an ISP-driven security incident coordination service is still much lower than expected. The total of all commitments is less than 8% of the expected value. If there is no significant change in this trend before November 27th the RIPE NCC will have to withdraw its proposal for running the pilot. That is the right thing to do if there is really little interest. However it is wrong if there is interest but the right people do not react or get told about this. Here is a summary of the commitments so far in the order of receipt. Thanks to all of the people and organisations below: Organisation name Person commit (ECU) pi.se AB Pontus Ekman 1000 ACONET Wilfried Woeber 1000 RedIRIS-CSIC Victor Castelo 1000 Academic Computer Centre, CYFRONET-KRAKO Karol Franczak 500 IPGlobal, Informatica e Telecomunicacoes Pedro Ramalho Carlos 500 Teleport C&S GmbH. Christoph Maerk 500 BT Public Internet Service Nigel Roy Titley 1000 Tele Greenland Michael Schultz 1000 SpaceNet GmbH Sebastian v. Bomhard 750 Unisource Business Networks Italy Mauro Magrassi 1000 Sontheimer Datentechnik GmbH Bernd Sontheimer 500 ECRC GmbH Dave Morton 1000 Tele2/SWIPnet Jorgen Ericsson 1000 Nacamar Klaus Landefeld 1000 ----- Total: 11750

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New Document available: RIPE-152
by RIPE NCC Document Annoucement Service 18 Nov '96

18 Nov '96

New/Revised RIPE Document Announcement -------------------------------------- A revised/new document is available from the RIPE document store. Ref: ripe-152 Title: Charging by Local Internet Registries Author: M. Norris, D. Karrenberg Date: 22 Apr 1996 Accessing the RIPE document store --------------------------------- You can access the RIPE document store via the World Wide Web; RIPE-152 is not available from the WWW at this moment, but will be soon, at the following URL: http://www.ripe.net/docs/ripe-152.html The RIPE document store is also available via anonymous FTP to ftp.ripe.net, in the directory ripe/docs. The full filenames of the new documents on the FTP-server are: ripe/docs/ripe-152.ps for the PostScript version ripe/docs/ripe-152.txt for the plain text version Documents can also be retrieved from the RIPE document store using a mail server program. For more information on how to use the program, send email to <mail-server(a)ripe.net> with "send HELP" in the body text.

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Re: Re: SIRCE: Action Needed !
by RIPE NCC Billing Department 18 Nov '96

18 Nov '96

Dear Dave Morton, Thank you for committing to fund the SIRCE pilot project. We have received your data as follows: Name: Dave Morton Position: still trying to figure it out ! Registry ID: de.ecrc Organisation: ECRC GmbH Address: Arabellastr. 17, 81925 Munich, Germany Committed amount (ECU): 1000 Billing reference: RIPE/SIRCE Your registration has been successful. Kind regards, Roderik Muit RIPE NCC Billing Department

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Re: SIRCE: Action Needed !
by Dave Morton 16 Nov '96

16 Nov '96

%START %FORM [sirce9601] I herby commit to contribute the ECU amount indicated to the SIRCE pilot project as defined in ripe-150 and the documents it refers to. I confirm that I have authority to commit my organisation for this contribution. I expect to be invoiced for this contribution as soon as the project will have started. Please put information between the brackets. Please give your full name. %NAME [Dave Morton] Please give your position in the organisation. %POS [still trying to figure it out !] Specify the registry ID of your organisation if it has one. %REGID [de.ecrc] If you have *not* specified a registry ID above, please give the full organisation name and billing address. We will contact you for more details if necessary. %ORGNAME [ECRC GmbH] %ADDRESS [Arabellastr. 17, 81925 Munich, Germany] Committed amount in ECU. Minimum is ECU 500. Excludes VAT where applicable. %AMOUNT [1000] Any billing reference that you may wish to be mentioned on the invoice. %BILLREF [RIPE/SIRCE] %END

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Re: Re: SIRCE Funding Message
by RIPE NCC Billing Department 15 Nov '96

15 Nov '96

Dear Olle F. Wallner, Thank you for committing to fund the SIRCE pilot project. We have received your data as follows: <zilch> Unfortunately there has been an error in your registration: --- Position not specified. (%POS) --- Please re-send your registration after correcting the error. If you have any questions, please contact <billing(a)ripe.net>. Kind regards, Roderik Muit RIPE NCC Billing Department > >Please use the form below to make commitments and pass this message on >to those who might be interested to participate. Of course I will be >happy to answer any questions you may have. > >With thanks in advance for your support > >Daniel Karrenberg > >------ > >%START > >%FORM [sirce9601] > >I herby commit to contribute the ECU amount indicated to the >SIRCE pilot project as defined in ripe-150 and the documents >it refers to. I confirm that I have authority to commit >my organisation for this contribution. I expect to be invoiced >for this contribution as soon as the project will have started. > >Please put information between the brackets. > >Please give your full name. > >%NAME [ Olle F. Wallner ] > >Please give your position in the organisation. > >%POS [ ] > >Specify the registry ID of your organisation if it has one. > >%REGID [ se.swipnet] > >If you have *not* specified a registry ID above, please give the >full organisation name and billing address. We will contact >you for more details if necessary. > >%ORGNAME [ ] > >%ADDRESS [ ] > >Committed amount in ECU. Minimum is ECU 500. Excludes VAT where applicable. > >%AMOUNT [ 1000] > >Any billing reference that you may wish to be mentioned on the invoice. > >%BILLREF [ ] > >%END

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Re: SIRCE Funding Message
by Olle F. Wallner 15 Nov '96

15 Nov '96

Tele2 commits to the funding at ECU 1,000. --Olle At 13:23 05/11/96 +0100, Daniel Karrenberg wrote: > >Dear Contributor, > >The RIPE NCC has proposed to execute a pilot project to provide Security >Incident Response Coordination in Europe (SIRCE) starting in early 1997. >In the past this has sometimes be called the Euro-CERT. We made this >proposal assuming that there is a need for such a service among the >European ISPs, i.e. the current customers of the RIPE NCC. Now that >the proposal has been published as document ripe-150, we ask you to >examine it and to commit a financial contribution to the pilot in 1997. >The benefits for those contributing include: > > - Preferred Service > Non-paying customers will only receive service if there is > no outstanding work for paying customers. > > - Influence > Paying customers will determine the general direction, > the policies and the services of SIRCE. > > - Credit > The level of your contribution will be publicly acknowledged. > >The minimum contribution is ECU 500 and there is no maximum. >As explained in the proposal we are looking for an average contribution >around ECU 1000. The contributions will be invoiced once the project >has definitely started. If the project is oversubscribed the amounts >invoiced will be reduced pro rata. Should there be insufficient >commitments to fund the project, we will withdraw our proposal. The >deadline for contributions is November 27th 1996. Until then we will >regularly publish the commitments already made. > >Please use the form below to make commitments and pass this message on >to those who might be interested to participate. Of course I will be >happy to answer any questions you may have. > >With thanks in advance for your support > >Daniel Karrenberg > >------ > >%START > >%FORM [sirce9601] > >I herby commit to contribute the ECU amount indicated to the >SIRCE pilot project as defined in ripe-150 and the documents >it refers to. I confirm that I have authority to commit >my organisation for this contribution. I expect to be invoiced >for this contribution as soon as the project will have started. > >Please put information between the brackets. > >Please give your full name. > >%NAME [ ] > >Please give your position in the organisation. > >%POS [ ] > >Specify the registry ID of your organisation if it has one. > >%REGID [ ] > >If you have *not* specified a registry ID above, please give the >full organisation name and billing address. We will contact >you for more details if necessary. > >%ORGNAME [ ] > >%ADDRESS [ ] > >Committed amount in ECU. Minimum is ECU 500. Excludes VAT where applicable. > >%AMOUNT [ ] > >Any billing reference that you may wish to be mentioned on the invoice. > >%BILLREF [ ] > >%END > >

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SIRCE: Action Needed !
by Daniel Karrenberg 14 Nov '96

14 Nov '96

Dear customers, dear colleagues, I have received quite some questions in response to my funding call for SIRCE. The following FAQ is a summary of the most popular ones. Unfortunately the amount of funds committed so far is a bit disappointing in the light of interest expressed earlier. If people are unhappy about the proposal or any other aspect, please let me know. We cannot fix it if we are not told. Thanks for your consideration. Daniel Karrenberg Q: I have had no time to read all the documents; can you please summarise what SIRCE is? A: SIRCE is a *coordination* service for security incident handling in Europe. SIRCE will *coordinate* the handling of incidents involving more than one of its customers. The *handling* of the incidents itself is performed by the organisations involved and *not* by SIRCE. In addition SIRCE will provide general support services to enable its customers to better handle security relevant incidents. The target customers for SIRCE, as proposed by the NCC, are the European ISPs. SIRCE services and policies will be geared towards ISP needs. Q: Do I need to set up my own Incident Response Team (IRT) in order to use SIRCE services. A: No, you can continue handling incidents like you do at present. SIRCE customers will just be asked to identify contact persons for security incident handling coordination. If you wish, SIRCE will provide support to set up an IRT or to otherwise improve your incident handling capability. Q: What makes SIRCE different from services like the CERT CC? A: SIRCE has local focus because it concentrates on Europe and the ISPs needs in particular. Of course SIRCE will coordinate on a global scale through similar organisations like the CERT CC. Q: Will SIRCE publish details or statistics about incidents in a way that reveals that my organisation was involved? A: No. Sirce will not publish details identifying customers involved without explicit permission. While detailed policies about statistics will be established with input from all customers during the pilot, we do not expect to publish statistics revealing the incident rate of individual customers. Q: Will SIRCE disclose details about incidents and/or my operational procedures to other customers? A: No. Again the detailed policies will be developed during the pilot. We expect these policies to be very conservative. They are likely to prefer direct information exchange between customers handling an incident if sensitive areas are involved. Q: When will SIRCE start operating? A: The project will start in Q1/97 and achieve initial incident coordination capability 2-3 months later. Q: What can I do to help make this happen? A: Commit a contribution to the funding of pilot operations in 1997. The minimum contribution is 500ECU. We are loking for an average of around 1000 ECU. This commitment is for 1997 only and there is no further obligation. Please use the form below for making commitments. Q: What are the benefits if I contribute? A: Direct benefits are preferred service, influence on policies and public credit. An important indirect benefit is that security incidents are well coordinated by an entity that looks after ISPs needs first. Q: Am I bound to my commitment if TERENA decides to execute SIRCE differently than proposed in ripe-150? A: No. The commitment is specifically for the project proposed in ripe-150. If a different proposal is preferred by TERENA, we will provide information about it and it is up to you to decide whether you want to get involved. Q: Which total commitment is necessary for the NCC to do SIRCE? A: The total budgeted expenditure in 1997 is 286kECU. The commitments from the ISP community are needed both to raise the funds necessary for a successful service and to document that the ISPs have a need for it. If the total commitment by November 27th is less than 100kECU there is not sufficient need and the NCC will withdraw. If there are commitments for 150kECU or more the project can go ahead since we expect additional commitments from new NCC customers and funds raised by TERENA. If the total will be between 100kECU and 150kECU it will depend on the distribution of the commitments. Q: What commitments have been received to date? A: Not many, especially when considering the interest expressed earlier. The table below shows all commitments in the order we received them. We will re-publish this list whenever it changes significantly. regid org name commit (ECU) se.pi pi.se AB Pontus Ekman 1000 at.aconet ACONET Wilfried Woeber 1000 es.rediris RedIRIS-CSIC Victor Castelo 1000 pl.cyfronet Academic Computer Centre, Karol Franczak 500 CYFRONET-KRAKOW ---- Total: 3500 ==== Q: How can I get more information? A: Document ripe-150 is the project proposal. ripe-149 is a position paper arguing why the RIPE NCC should execute the project. The service descriptions are in ftp://ftp.ripe.net/ripe/misc/cert-eu.ps. Further questions can be addressed to Daniel Karrenberg <Daniel.Karrenberg@ ripe.net>. ----- Please send the form below to <billing(a)ripe.net>: %START %FORM [sirce9601] I herby commit to contribute the ECU amount indicated to the SIRCE pilot project as defined in ripe-150 and the documents it refers to. I confirm that I have authority to commit my organisation for this contribution. I expect to be invoiced for this contribution as soon as the project will have started. Please put information between the brackets. Please give your full name. %NAME [ ] Please give your position in the organisation. %POS [ ] Specify the registry ID of your organisation if it has one. %REGID [ ] If you have *not* specified a registry ID above, please give the full organisation name and billing address. We will contact you for more details if necessary. %ORGNAME [ ] %ADDRESS [ ] Committed amount in ECU. Minimum is ECU 500. Excludes VAT where applicable. %AMOUNT [ ] Any billing reference that you may wish to be mentioned on the invoice. %BILLREF [ ] %END

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Re: Request for subscription to the mailing list
by Roderik Muit 12 Nov '96

12 Nov '96

Dear people, Even though almost all people subscribed to ripe-mailinglists are service providers and/or experienced Internet users, there appears to be a number of people having some difficulty with the concept of mailinglists. In the past 2 weeks, we have seen about 6 messages of people wanting to be subscribed to a mailinglist, sent to either <local-ir(a)ripe.net> or <ripe-list(a)ripe.net>. These addresses are the addresses of the lists themselves. Messages to these addresses go to everyone on this list. Messages like 'subscribe me' should therefore NOT go to these addresses. If you want to (un)subscribe you can use one of the following addresses: <majordomo(a)ripe.net> (except for closed lists like 'local-ir' and 'ncc-co') <ncc(a)ripe.net> <owner-[LISTNAME](a)ripe.net> <postmaster(a)ripe.net> but sending those messages to (all recipients of) the list makes no sense. Thank you.

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unsubscribe ripe-list
by Bruno Dias 08 Nov '96

08 Nov '96

unsubscribe ripe-list dias(a)uminho.pt

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None
by geoff＠globalnet.co.uk 07 Nov '96

07 Nov '96

unsubscribe ripe-list geoff(a)globalnet.co.uk

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Hostcount for October 1996
by Mirjam Kuehne 07 Nov '96

07 Nov '96

Dear all, Here is the hostcount for October 1996. The table shows an increase since last month of almost 70,000 (or 2.1%) to a total of almost 3,360,000 hosts in the DNS in Europe. Italy shows the highest increase for October with more than 20,000 hosts more than in September. The numbers for the UK dropped siginificantly. We don't know yet why. Please note that there was a mistake in the hostcount for September: The CHANGED column for GR and TR showed wrong numbers. This also effected the total delta. Here are the correct figures: CY SOA COUNTED DUPL REAL CHANGE ============================================================ .. gr 432 10610 556 10054 - 220 tr 429 10613 590 10023 + 1091 ... ============================================================ 112312 3510565 220465 3290100 +179871 I am sorry for this mistake. The latest hostcount can also be found under ftp://ftp.ripe.net/ripe/hostcount. The graphical version of the hostcount can be found at ftp://ftp.ripe.net/ripe/hostcount/RIPE-Hostcount-{Mo,Qu}.eps The translation of the country codes can be found at ftp://ftp.ripe.net/iso3166-countrycodes All this data can also be found at http://www.ripe.net/statistics/ I would like to thank all people who help me to create the hostcount every month by counting hosts locally: at Gerhard Winkler <winkler(a)cc.univie.ac.at> be Herman Moons <Herman.Moons(a)CS.kuleuven.ac.be> ch Marcel Schneider <hostmaster(a)nic.ch> cy Panagiotis Tzounakis <pj(a)ics.forth.gr> cz Jiri Orsag <Jiri.Orsag(a)eunet.cz> de Peter Koch <pk(a)TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE> dk Robert Martin-Legene <robert(a)dknet.dk> es Jose Sanchez-Seco <jose.sanchez(a)rediris.es> fi Petri Ojala <ojala(a)eunet.fi> fr Annie Renard <Annie.Renard(a)inria.fr> gr Dimitris Zisiadis <zisiadis(a)forthnet.gr> hr Ivan Maric <Ivan.Maric(a)stribor.srce.hr> hu Gabor Kiss <kissg(a)sztaki.hu> ie Mike Norris <mnorris(a)dalkey.hea.ie> il Sason Levi <sason(a)NetVision.net.il> it Antonio_Blasco Bonito <bonito(a)nis.garr.it> no Havard Eidnes <Havard.Eidnes(a)runit.sintef.no> pl Irek Neska <irek(a)nask.pl> pt Armando Domingues <fccn(a)dns.pt> ru Andrey Dobrotsvetov <adbr(a)ripn.net> sk Ivan Lescak <Ivan.Lescak(a)Slovakia.EU.net> Lubos Elias <Lubos.Elias(a)uakom.sk> sm Antonio_Blasco Bonito <bonito(a)nis.garr.it> tr Yener Yigit <yener(a)knidos.cc.metu.edu.tr> uk Kevin Hoadley <K.Hoadley(a)nosc.ja.net> If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to contact me. Kind regards, Mirjam Kuehne RIPE NCC RIPE DNS Hostcount Previous Count : Mon Sep 30 1996 This Count : Thu Oct 31 1996 CY SOA COUNTED DUPL REAL CHANGE ============================================================ al 5 81 0 81 + 2 am 8 199 6 193 - 8 at 3364 92139 11203 80936 + 1284 az 4 19 0 19 + 2 be 3249 62320 2381 59939 +13403 bg 121 3116 137 2979 + 262 by 16 209 9 200 + 56 ch 5959 125454 6179 119275 + 5472 cy 130 1060 14 1046 + 146 cz 1370 40330 1315 39015 + 2595 de 21481 693821 41258 652563 + 832 dk 3452 101338 6737 94601 + 3028 dz 2 18 0 18 - 3 ee 442 8149 225 7924 + 541 eg 85 1796 60 1736 + 81 es 2990 102839 1617 101222 + 7717 fi 3220 314195 5004 309191 -12520 fo 23 89 0 89 + 1 fr 5208 234796 7612 227184 +17768 gb 2 40 0 40 0 ge 13 169 2 167 + 6 gr 657 16016 762 15254 + 5200 hr 413 4768 733 4035 + 392 hu 789 29046 786 28260 + 1418 ie 1248 25415 453 24962 + 1153 il 1747 51352 3383 47969 + 3606 is 274 10577 113 10464 + 17 it 6763 163830 11616 152214 +20886 li 80 255 71 184 + 18 lt 164 1748 95 1653 + 219 lu 243 4108 744 3364 + 524 lv 118 4976 250 4726 - 469 ma 27 501 65 436 + 28 md 11 22 2 20 + 2 mk 20 225 14 211 0 mt 56 472 69 403 + 88 nl 8510 241030 8741 232289 + 4838 no 4851 147180 5666 141514 + 8661 pl 1872 50373 2232 48141 + 3976 pt 755 21128 687 20441 + 1114 ro 384 4931 164 4767 + 398 ru 1719 39316 2990 36326 + 2959 se 9092 239339 13397 225942 +15859 si 566 13424 1060 12364 + 940 sk 368 7435 365 7070 + 598 sm 10 667 303 364 + 30 su 569 18532 853 17679 + 1582 tn 4 45 3 42 - 2 tr 539 13146 517 12629 + 2606 ua 292 7269 1274 5995 + 937 uk 31468 697703 98605 599098 -49118 va 2 5 0 5 0 yu 125 1478 31 1447 - 539 ============================================================ 124880 3598489 239803 3358686 +68586

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New Document available: RIPE-145
by RIPE NCC Document Annoucement Service 06 Nov '96

06 Nov '96

New/Revised RIPE Document Announcement -------------------------------------- A revised/new document is available from the RIPE document store. Ref: ripe-145 Title: RIPE NCC Contributors Committee, 1996 Annual Meeting, Minutes Author: D. Karrenberg, R. Muit Date: 6 November 1996 Format: Obsoletes: Obsoleted by: Updates: Updated by: See also: Short content description ------------------------- These are the *draft* minutes of the 1996 annual meeting of the RIPE NCC Contributors Committee. All contributors please take not and direct any comments or corrections to me. I apologise for the delays in preparing these minutes. Work items generated by this meeting and the RIPE meeting a week later plus a lot of unexpected work kept me quite busy. Daniel Karrenberg Accessing the RIPE document store --------------------------------- You can access the RIPE document store via the World Wide Web; RIPE-145 is not available from the WWW at this moment, but will be soon, at the following URL: http://www.ripe.net/docs/ripe-145.html The RIPE document store is also available via anonymous FTP to ftp.ripe.net, in the directory ripe/docs. The full filenames of the new documents on the FTP-server are: ripe/docs/ripe-145.ps for the PostScript version ripe/docs/ripe-145.txt for the plain text version Documents can also be retrieved from the RIPE document store using a mail server program. For more information on how to use the program, send email to <mail-server(a)ripe.net> with "send HELP" in the body text.

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SIRCE Funding Message
by Daniel Karrenberg 06 Nov '96

06 Nov '96

Dear Contributor, The RIPE NCC has proposed to execute a pilot project to provide Security Incident Response Coordination in Europe (SIRCE) starting in early 1997. In the past this has sometimes be called the Euro-CERT. We made this proposal assuming that there is a need for such a service among the European ISPs, i.e. the current customers of the RIPE NCC. Now that the proposal has been published as document ripe-150, we ask you to examine it and to commit a financial contribution to the pilot in 1997. The benefits for those contributing include: - Preferred Service Non-paying customers will only receive service if there is no outstanding work for paying customers. - Influence Paying customers will determine the general direction, the policies and the services of SIRCE. - Credit The level of your contribution will be publicly acknowledged. The minimum contribution is ECU 500 and there is no maximum. As explained in the proposal we are looking for an average contribution around ECU 1000. The contributions will be invoiced once the project has definitely started. If the project is oversubscribed the amounts invoiced will be reduced pro rata. Should there be insufficient commitments to fund the project, we will withdraw our proposal. The deadline for contributions is November 27th 1996. Until then we will regularly publish the commitments already made. Please use the form below to make commitments and pass this message on to those who might be interested to participate. Of course I will be happy to answer any questions you may have. With thanks in advance for your support Daniel Karrenberg ------ %START %FORM [sirce9601] I herby commit to contribute the ECU amount indicated to the SIRCE pilot project as defined in ripe-150 and the documents it refers to. I confirm that I have authority to commit my organisation for this contribution. I expect to be invoiced for this contribution as soon as the project will have started. Please put information between the brackets. Please give your full name. %NAME [ ] Please give your position in the organisation. %POS [ ] Specify the registry ID of your organisation if it has one. %REGID [ ] If you have *not* specified a registry ID above, please give the full organisation name and billing address. We will contact you for more details if necessary. %ORGNAME [ ] %ADDRESS [ ] Committed amount in ECU. Minimum is ECU 500. Excludes VAT where applicable. %AMOUNT [ ] Any billing reference that you may wish to be mentioned on the invoice. %BILLREF [ ] %END

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Re: The use of high speed (>34Mbit/s) within Europe
by Peter Lothberg 05 Nov '96

05 Nov '96

> At 16:52 04.11.96, Denis.Russell(a)ncl.ac.uk wrote: > >I hope this query is a reasonable use of this list. I have been asked to > >come up with a summary of the use of high speed (which means more than E3 - > >34Mbit/s in this context) in Europe. The query really means off campus, > > . . . . . . > > Further to my message of yesterday evening, you might also like to look > at > > http://www.dante.net/ten-34/nn-high-speed.html > > It is surprising how easily you forget what is on your own machine. > > Best wishes, > > Howard > > > Why are planning for the future focused on 34Mbit? It's slow, does not map into SDH (only as VC3, but the same VC3 would also hold a 45Mbps.) It has ben demostrated that it is possible to even build transatlantic 155Mbit circiuts (using native IP over SDH), so why not in Europe? --Peter

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New Document available: RIPE-ripe-150
by RIPE NCC Document Annoucement Service 05 Nov '96

05 Nov '96

New/Revised RIPE Document Announcement -------------------------------------- A revised/new document is available from the RIPE document store. Short content description ------------------------- In this document, we propose to execute a pilot pro- ject for Security Incident Response Coordination in Europe (SIRCE) at the RIPE NCC. We present relevant information about the RIPE NCC, including the rea- sons why the NCC offers a uniquely suitable setting for the SIRCE project. Financial contributions to this pilot project will be requested in a seperate message Accessing the RIPE document store --------------------------------- You can access the RIPE document store via the World Wide Web; RIPE-ripe-150 is not available from the WWW at this moment, but will be soon, at the following URL: http://www.ripe.net/docs/ripe-ripe-150.html The RIPE document store is also available via anonymous FTP to ftp.ripe.net, in the directory ripe/docs. The full filenames of the new documents on the FTP-server are: ripe/docs/ripe-ripe-150.ps for the PostScript version ripe/docs/ripe-ripe-150.txt for the plain text version Documents can also be retrieved from the RIPE document store using a mail server program. For more information on how to use the program, send email to <mail-server(a)ripe.net> with "send HELP" in the body text.

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Re: The use of high speed (>34Mbit/s) within Europe
by Howard.Davies＠dante.org.uk 05 Nov '96

05 Nov '96

At 16:52 04.11.96, Denis.Russell(a)ncl.ac.uk wrote: >I hope this query is a reasonable use of this list. I have been asked to >come up with a summary of the use of high speed (which means more than E3 - >34Mbit/s in this context) in Europe. The query really means off campus, . . . . . . Further to my message of yesterday evening, you might also like to look at http://www.dante.net/ten-34/nn-high-speed.html It is surprising how easily you forget what is on your own machine. Best wishes, Howard

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