September 1992 - ripe-list - mailman.ripe.net

Re: Mis-information
by Peter Lothberg 29 Sep '92

29 Sep '92

> > >This means that the IP-community of Europe will probably have > > >a zero influence on the network, that are supposed to serve our > > >community. And that the CPMU totally ignores the skills of the > > >Ripe community. > > > > This will only be true if none of the Ripe member networks > > paticipate in the IP pilot. > > We (ie JANET/JIPS) intend to participate in the EMPB IP pilot. The reason > we're doing it is that we believe it's important to have high-quality > networks available for our users, and piloting is a necessary part of the > quality-assurance procedure. > > This attitude is no different to our attitude to Ebone '92 -- we've been > happy to participate, and be active in the management and operational > work to get things sorted out. It's been a rewarding experience for us, > our users, and (I'd suggest) other members of the Ebone consortium. > > I find it hard to see much difference between doing this and doing the > same for EMPB -- in both cases we see a reward for work invested. I'd > hope other networks connecting to EMPB participate in the pilot as well. > Otherwise there won't be much to pilot :-) > > > >We have to pay twice, as the skills of the coumunity are not > > >used, and we have to pay the consultants on our taxes/ charges. > > > > You might have to pay for the consultants by your taxes if your > > organisation is part of COSINE, but NOT in charges for the EMPB. > > It seems to me that it's a bit dangerous to start suggesting that one > IP network is a burden on the taxpayer, whilst another isn't. As Bruce > points out, EMPB charges aren't. Even a cursory inspection suggests that > substantial bits of the Ebone '92 infrastructure are publically funded, > at least originally. Nothing particularly wrong with that -- they've > been put to good use -- but it seems fairly silly to start this > particular line of discussion at this particular time. > > Bob Day Bob, you are missing the crusial point of the Ebone, it is a OPEN forum for cooperation among networks. And the long term perspective is that it in some form will provide the interconnection between all independent network providors that wants to sell THEIR users a global IP service. EMPB is one of the network providors, among others offering the same kind of services. To use IP you have to provide unrestricted connectivity to all users that share the same address-space, that's the way IP and its user services are designed. To do this a forum for cooperation is needed. EMPB is in direct competetion with several of the Ebone sponsors. -Peter

1 0

MICE - not quite there yet...
by Jon Crowcroft 29 Sep '92

29 Sep '92

-------- the message i sent about multimedia for europe was a bit premature - sorry, enthusiasm got the better of me. the project is not yet funded... you will certainly know as soon as we find out! note, also, that the protocol stack is subject to much study (as one would expect for continous media, there are no firm standaards yet, so some investigation is needed before committing to any particular technmology...an isochronous service is offered byu some x.25 switch manufactuerers, for instance (e.g. netcomm)). sorry to over-raise hopes... j. --------------- To: matsb(a)sics.se Cc: Piet.Beertema(a)mcsun.eu.net, wallace(a)rare.nl (Bruce Wallace), cpmu(a)rare.nl, davies(a)rare.nl, kalin(a)rare.nl, roll(a)sbd.stupi.se, ripe(a)ripe.net Subject: Re: Mis-information In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 29 Sep 92 12:48:24 BST." <9209291148.AA03177(a)asia.sics.se> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 13:37:43 +0100 From: Jon Crowcroft <J.Crowcroft(a)cs.ucl.ac.uk> >Waht we do need is risk capital from tax payers to show new >applications so taht the service providers will invest in higher >bandwidth network solutions for mulitmedia mail and video >conferencing. >Step 1 34 Mbps addtional bandwidth support to Ebone, maybe PTT telcomm >is interested to prowide this for the same amount of money? >Step 2 Separate testbed to try new concepts and protocol structures yes - we will need just these two steps to finalise work on the MICE project in late 1993. However, to start this project (from the day after tomorrow:-), we need: For those of you not aware, the EC has funded MICE (Multimedia International Conferencing for the Ec) to coordinate pilot services for audio, video, audio and shared whiteboard/editors between any interested EC and EFTA countries....at least France, Germany, Netherlands and Sweden + Norway are involved already. We will be using existing tools (e.g. vat, dvc, inria, videoconf,) for workstation conferencing and H.261 CODECs with packetizers and any other technology to link video conferencing roms facilities at Research and Educational Facilities. (A Packetiser is usually a sparcstation with hsi board). typically, this will entail IP (since much of the video/audio technology comes from the US< just like good networking technology), to carry packet video and audio - we hope to work with RIPE/RARE and with router and switch vendors to influence the production pof resource guarantees in ther network devices. End systems are already fine for audio, and shared applications in the Ebone environment. Video has not been extensively tried. If you are worred about being swamped with traffic, let me assure you that each user nation *must* have full approval end to end... obviously, the multicast facilities of the Mbone will be essential in optimising traffic (will EMPB provide multicast?). jon and just to agree on the sign-off: > Who would want to participate in an IP *pilot*, when > we have a globe-wide, reliable, and well-managed IP > *service* right behind our keyboards??? ------- End of Forwarded Message

1 0

The Complete EBONE Up and Running !!!
by boss＠ebone.net 29 Sep '92

29 Sep '92

To the European IP community, This is to inform you that today, Sunday 26 September 1992, the final link of the initially defined EBONE, the London-Montpellier link, was put in place. The EBONE is now complete as a resilient pan-European IP backbone. September 1, 1991, after an initiative by Kees Neggers, a small group of people gathered for the first time, in an office building outside Amsterdam, to see if it could be possible to build a pan-European IP backbone. Today, 390 days later, the full backbone is up and running. Without all the voluntary efforts put in this would never have been possible. As a result we today see one of the worlds technically most advanced backbones in Europe. I must admit I have never seen a group with so much expertise gathered around the table and with so much enthusiasm in making this knowledge serve the European networking user community. I will by this give my deep gratitude to all those people involved in the fulfillment of the first pan-European IP backbone. To make it short: WE MADE IT!!! ======================== There is some bottles of champaign waiting in Paris :-) See you there all of you, Bernhard Stockman. Chair of the EBONE Action Team.

6 5

Re: Status of connectivity to xSU by US Federal nets
by Arnold Nipper 29 Sep '92

29 Sep '92

>PS: Countries whose nets are announced on the NSFNET Backbone are listed in >/statistics/nets.by.country, available by anonymous ftp from nis.nsf.net. -s /statistics/nsfnet/nets.by.country Arnold Nipper XLINK

1 0

Status of connectivity to xSU by US Federal nets
by Stephen Wolff 29 Sep '92

29 Sep '92

On behalf of the R&E community, NSF sought and in June, 1991 received a letter from the Department of Commerce authorizing IP connectivity to the so-called Eastern bloc. In a second letter from Commerce in January, 1992, the authorization was reaffirmed and clarified; i.e., that the concern was export control, **not** the connectivity itself. Accordingly, Poland, Czechoslovakia, and Hungary, have been now for some time announced on the NSFNET Backbone; somewhat more recently, Estonia is reachable as are (potentially) the other Baltic states. Although connectivity to the xSU is covered by the Commerce letters to NSF, at the request of the Federal Networking Council (FNC) the NSF agreed not to carry such traffic on the NSFNET Backbone. This concession was nugatory until two recent events: a network in the xSU is now being announced by the CIX, so that it can (and does) exchange traffic with non-Federal US nets, and Federal mission agencies are establishing what amount to point-to-point links from specific sites in the xSU to specific US computational resources. At the FNC meeting on Thursday, the 24th September, the NSF therefore asked the FNC to reconsider its position, since a side effect of the growing connectivity (which is either "non-R&E" or is between unilaterally-selected scientists and sites in the US and the xSU) is to disenfranchise a large fraction of the US R&E community whose aspirations for unrestricted scientific and educational collaboration with their peers and colleagues in the xSU NSF fully endorses. -s PS: Countries whose nets are announced on the NSFNET Backbone are listed in /statistics/nets.by.country, available by anonymous ftp from nis.nsf.net. -s

1 0

Re: Mis-information
by bob＠informatics.rutherford.ac.uk 29 Sep '92

29 Sep '92

> >This means that the IP-community of Europe will probably have > >a zero influence on the network, that are supposed to serve our > >community. And that the CPMU totally ignores the skills of the > >Ripe community. > > This will only be true if none of the Ripe member networks > paticipate in the IP pilot. We (ie JANET/JIPS) intend to participate in the EMPB IP pilot. The reason we're doing it is that we believe it's important to have high-quality networks available for our users, and piloting is a necessary part of the quality-assurance procedure. This attitude is no different to our attitude to Ebone '92 -- we've been happy to participate, and be active in the management and operational work to get things sorted out. It's been a rewarding experience for us, our users, and (I'd suggest) other members of the Ebone consortium. I find it hard to see much difference between doing this and doing the same for EMPB -- in both cases we see a reward for work invested. I'd hope other networks connecting to EMPB participate in the pilot as well. Otherwise there won't be much to pilot :-) > >We have to pay twice, as the skills of the coumunity are not > >used, and we have to pay the consultants on our taxes/ charges. > > You might have to pay for the consultants by your taxes if your > organisation is part of COSINE, but NOT in charges for the EMPB. It seems to me that it's a bit dangerous to start suggesting that one IP network is a burden on the taxpayer, whilst another isn't. As Bruce points out, EMPB charges aren't. Even a cursory inspection suggests that substantial bits of the Ebone '92 infrastructure are publically funded, at least originally. Nothing particularly wrong with that -- they've been put to good use -- but it seems fairly silly to start this particular line of discussion at this particular time. Bob Day

1 0

Re: Mis-information
by Peter Lothberg 29 Sep '92

29 Sep '92

> This means that the IP-community of Europe will probably have > a zero influence on the network, that are supposed to serve our > community. And that the CPMU totally ignores the skills of the > Ripe community. > This will only be true if none of the Ripe member networks > paticipate in the IP pilot. > Who would want to participate in an IP *pilot*, when > we have a globe-wide, reliable, and well-managed IP > *service* right behind our keyboards??? It's even worse, the EMPB has to have it's ovn relationship to EVERY ip network in the wolrd, as they do not cooperate with -GIX- type of concortias like the Ebone. -Peter

1 0

Mis-information
by wallace＠rare.nl 29 Sep '92

29 Sep '92

Dear all , A correction to the "rumours" that are propogated below, from the person involved in the matter. _____________________________________________________________ >Date: Sun, 27th Sep 92 21:14:30 MET >From: Peter Lothberg <roll(a)bsd.stupi.se> >To: ripe(a)rip.net >Subject: What are the COSINE/CPMU in the Rare officie doing? >Some days ago we all received a long document that looked like >this; >Note the document has bee recieved September 8, 1992. >______________________________________________________________ > RARE and RIPE / RIPE - NCC > RIPE: > RIPE should stay a technical IP coordinating body within >RARE, but having much more interaction with the RARE management, >technical and executive bodies (CoA, RTC, REC, Raesec) than in >the past > according to it's charter, RIPE should be serving wider >population than RARE membership > one should obsercve gradual merger (or at least very close >cooperation between identical or related Working Groups of RARE >and RIPE, leading to a coordibated management of technical >activities > Ripe should support establishment and utilisation of the >EMPB, particularly in the pilot phase, where its expertise is >crucially needed >I have learned through releiable sources that the EMPB?PTT- >Telecom is planning to subcontract "IP network Consulting" for >EMPB to Softlabs. This is totally incorrect! PTT-Telecom have not contracted anyone for "IP network Consulting". Softlab are currently contracted to the CPMU for the COSINE project P4- "Network Management in the Context of concantenated Networks". They have been asked to provide consultancy in the above topic for the EMPB.(By the CPMU). >Another strange thing seems to be that the receiver(What's >that?)was " Bruce Wallace at PTT Telecom" I thought he was with >the CPMU? You are quite correct about this point I (Bruce Wallace) am a member of the CPMU and not a PTT-Telecom employee. (I suggest you stop using this "reliable source" as he(or she) is plainly not reliable! >This means that the IP-community of Europe will probably have >a zero influence on the network, that are supposed to serve our >community. And that the CPMU totally ignores the skills of the >Ripe community. This will only be true if none of the Ripe member networks paticipate in the IP pilot. >We have to pay twice, as the skills of the coumunity are not >used, and we have to pay the consultants on our taxes/ charges. You might have to pay for the consultants by your taxes if your organisation is part of COSINE, but NOT in charges for the EMPB. >I might be wrong, if someone has better knowledge about this, >please speak up. >Peter. I have spoken up and I hope cleared up the mistakes. Regards Bruce.

4 3

Re: Mis-information
by Peter Lothberg 29 Sep '92

29 Sep '92

>I have spoken up and I hope cleared up the mistakes. >Regards >Bruce. Thanks Bruce, My problem, and I guess that that goes for many in the IP networking world of the planet Earth are not used to the 'big-brother' approach. The quality of the service, seen by the enduser (and the networks are to support the endusers) are the sum of all involved organisations, that his traffic may traverese. A well managed, but SECRET cloud in the middle, that tryes to establish itsef without talking to ALL of the outside world, creates problems, real of imagined. As you seem to be informed, I would like to ask you to submitt to the Ripe malinglist all relevant documents, and the in deepth technical plan for the EMPB IP service, and how that interropetartes with other planned Unisource IP networking activities. -Peter

1 0

RIPE meeting - Agenda (latest version)
by k13＠nikhef.nl 29 Sep '92

29 Sep '92

ripe-a-13 R I P E Agenda of the 13th RIPE meeting =============================== September 30 - October 2, 1992 - - - - - - - - - - - W E D N E S D A Y 14:00 h - - - - - - - - - - - - - 1. Opening (R Blokzijl) 15 min o welcome o apologies o introduction o meeting secretary o dinner for Thursday evening o approval of the agenda o papers tabled o organisation of the meeting 3. Minutes of the last meeting 15 min o approval of the minutes o action list 2. RIPE position paper (R Blokzijl) 15 min o formal approval of the last draft 3. RIPE NCC (D Karrenberg) 60 min o report o the future of the RIPE NCC: - organisational position - budget - financing 4. RIPE and RARE 60 min o report from the RARE CoA, September 24-25. (R Blokzijl) o the RARE technical program (RTC members) An introduction of the RARE technical program, with an emphasis on IP networking. 5. Global Internet traffic measurement (T Nielsen) 30 min o Torben will present a proposal to do a global Internet traffic measurement. The proposal is that (some of) the RIPE networks participate in an effort to measure global IP traffic streams. 6. Global Address Assignement (D Karrenberg) 15 min 7. Delegated Registry inside Europe (D Karrenberg) 15 min o coordination between local NIC/NIS and the RIPE NCC 8. Networking in Russia (M Popov) 15 min o status, including international connectivity o future plans - - - - - - - - - - - - - T H U R S D A Y 09:00 h - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 9. EBONE (P Jones, B Stockman) 60 min o status report o plans for EBONE 93 10. EMPB IP services (PTT Telecom NL) 30 min o EMPB is going to introduce IP on it's network, EMPB will be connected to some of the RIPE coordinated networks. Issues related to interworking between EMPB/IP and the European Internet will be presented and discussed. 11. Audio conferencing (D Karrenberg) 15 min o introduction o proposal for an MBONE * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * The following sessions are meetings of - the RIPE working groups - special interest groups They take place with a degree of parallelism. A. Relationship between Academic & Research networks and Commercial networks [Glenn Kowack] B. Network information services [Nandor Horvath] C. DNS issues [Francis Dupont] D. European connectivity [Milan Sterba] E. RIPE Database [Wilfried Woeber] F. IP routing in Europe [Jean-Michel Jouanigot] G. Audio Conferencing [Daniel Karrenberg] H. Global Internet traffic measurement [Torben Nielsen] I. Delegated registry coordination [Daniel Karrenberg] J. EBS managers meeting (closed) [Phil Jones] K. EBONE Germany meeting [Stefan Fassbender] - - - - - - - - - - - - - - F R I D A Y 09:00 h - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 12. Reports from the working groups. 120 min 13. Coordination of the RIPE and RARE technical programs. 30 min o for decission 14. Global Internet traffic measurement (T Nielsen) 30 min o proposal o decission 15. Date, place and time of next meetings 15 min o January 25 - 27, Prague 16. A.O.B. 15 min 17 Closing RIPE working group: European IP connectivity Chairman: Milan Sterba -------------------------------------------- Here is the first draft for our agenda at the next RIPE meeting in Paris. I consider a meeting of this WG during the Paris meeting as usefull and suppose that we will need two 1.5 hour blocks to cover the topics. Thanks for comments and suggestions. * CEEC report revisited (discussion -> new report before end oct.) * Ebone/non-Ebone coutries/networks relationship (clarification) (this related to a more general problem of AUP's in different european networks) * CEEC connectivity scheme optimization (with respect to existing and realistically planned connections, eg. IXI extensions, recent Ebone evolutions etc.) discussion -> recommendation * commercial use of international links in poorely connected countries (current state and possibilities) <-> (Glenn's WG) * non-connected coutries - state of the art and what can we do * overview of actions to support networking in CEEC countries (joint research, network schools, conferences, direct help, etc.) summary -> NIDUS WG * regional mapping process coordination for CEEC (regional mapping authority appointment) * towards a global network architecture in Europe in the environment of multiple IP providers (regional NAP's, routing servers and arbiters) (BOF - is this scheme suitable for Europe ?) Of course there is one major theme in European connectivity, which is the EMPB IP Pilot/Ebone and OU/Ebone relationships. But I suppose this topic will be covered in plenary. RIPE working group: IP routing in Europe Chairman: Jean-Michel Jouanigot ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1- Policy Based Routing Within RIPE 1.1- Presentation and status of nlc 1.2- Progress of the Policy based routing Pilot 1.3- Policy based routing tags collection (draft) 2- EBONE routing 2.1- Status of the EBONE routing 2.2- Backup to the US 2.3- Ebone routing and RIPE database (draft) 3- Routing Policy Description Form (Jessica Yu) RIPE working group: whois database Chairman: Wilfried Woeber ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- DB-WG 1. RIPE-DB Operational Issues 1.1 - change of DB format by NIC (nicnets.db) issue raised by Ruediger Volk, Marten Terpstra 1.2 - addition of, or "nonstandard use" of fields issue raised by Jean-Michel Jouanigot, Marten Terpstra DB-WG 2. RIPE-DB Technical Issues 2.1 - definition of and agreeement on Autonomous System Object issue raised by Daniel Karrenberg >>input solicited from Ruediger Volk, Daniel Karrenberg 2.2 - proposal to add field *tech-l/*tl to objects where useful proposal by Andreas Schachtner 2.3 - modification of *in field to take care of supernetting proposal by Andreas Schachtner 2.4 - review of importance of Domain Object, superceded by RFC1183 issue raised by Daniel Karrenberg 2.5 - discussion on feasibility of general purpose extensions to DB >>input (example for GARR usage) solicited from A. Blasco Bonito DB-WG 3. RIPE-DB Organizational and Legal Issues 3.1 - ownership and "acceptable use" of RIPE-DB 3.2 - review/update of ripe-w02 describing the database objects 3.3 - coordination and future liaison with X.400/X.500/MHS activities

1 0

Notes on some TCP/IP WAN activities in xSU
by Oleg Tabarovsky 28 Sep '92

28 Sep '92

Notes on some TCP/IP WAN activities in xSU ------------------------------------------ Activities in the field of TCP/IP networking include SU domain coordination, assignment of IP numbers to ex-Soviet organizations, development and operation of IP-network in SU. SU domain coordination and assignment of IP numbers are carried out by RelTeam Ltd. private company. xSU/RU NIC is hosted by RelTeam Ltd., it assigns IP numbers on behalf of RIPE NCC. RelTeam Ltd. is also the main developer of all networking software in EUnet/RELCOM network, and the coordinator of IP activities in EUnet/RELCOM. Here follow some notes on current state and future of TCP/IP networking in EUnet/RELCOM network operated by Relcom Corp. Currently EUnet/RELCOM network connects approximately 3000 sites all over xSU. EUnet/RELCOM includes approximately 70 regional nodes (backbones) in all former USSR republics and major cities. Currently most links between nodes and sites in RELCOM are UUCP links. International link now is UUCP connection to EUNet via host techno.fuug.fi in Finland. The growth of the network, significant delays because of UUCP links, inability to provide net services going beyond e-mail forced us to begin the turn from UUCP to TCP/IP network. The main problems we are facing are lack of at least medium speed digital channels (64K), of appropriate routers (cisco's are still under COCOM restrictions for us) and of properly trained staff at every EUnet/RELCOM node. Nevertheless, we try to solve all this problems (probably with the exception of the last one :-)). Starting from the end of 1991 the kernel of xSU IP network has begun to grow. Currently pilot IP network connects 11 LANs in Moscow, Moscow region and Barnaul (Altai). The links are mostly voice grade leased lines equipped with V32bis modems and dialup links (with permanent connection) via high quality phone service called ISKRA (former communist's phone network). ISKRA phone network connects almost all major xSU cities and its quality permits reliable V32bis modem connections. Currently Moscow backbone consists of 3 routers at EUnet/RELCOM main hub (KIAE premises), ISKRA POP and Moscow Long Distance Exchange. All other networks which form current IP network kernel are connected to these routers. Plans call for the establishment of international IP link to EUnet cisco in Amsterdam through the router at Moscow Long Distance Echange in just a few weeks. Voice grade leased line which will form the link is going to be equipped with ZyXEL modems at both ends. That will allow to exchange data at speed up to 16800 bps (uncompressed). During the first stage of IP network development in xSU we plan to connect all major EUnet/RELCOM nodes via voice grade leased lines and ISKRA dialup links. In the near future (until the end of 1992) we hope to establish up to 20 IP links via leased lines and several other links via ISKRA, these links will form the global IP network connecting at least 50 LANs. Regional backbones will in their turn form intraregional IP networks in such areas as Siberia, Ural, Altai, St.Petersburg, Ukraine, Far East and others. Now few technical details on currently used software and hardware. Lack of appropriate routers forced us to develop our own solutions. First of all we developed CSLIP software which is capable to use several physical links for one network interface. Such software allows us to achieve acceptable bandwidth (for example ~6KB/sec FTP for ASCII files) in the absence of medium and high speed links, and provide good backup in case if one of the links fails. We plan to develop in the nearest future the same software for PPP protocol. Routing software currently used is "routed" but it has become unacceptable due to significant growth of RIP traffic over the links. All major routers (Moscow backbone routers first) will be upgraded to use "gated" software (the latest "gated-alpha" and gated-3.0 when it will be released). Using gated will allow to use BGP-3 between major border routers, highly reducing routing traffic. Using BGP-3 will also allow simple routing between xSU AS and Amsterdam cisco. Future plans based on utilizing gated software includes switching to OSPF as IGRP. Until that time networks will still speak RIP to backbone routers. Router's built-in software for "firewall-alike" functionality, IP accounting and priority queues is also under development and will be installed soon. Router's hardware currently consists of 386/33 (486/50 planned), 8/16 channel DigiBoards and Ethernet card(s). We also plan to install appropriate 64K interface. Contacts for EUnet/RELCOM & RelTeam Ltd.: Nickolay Saukh - nms(a)ussr.EU.net Valery Bardin - fox(a)ussr.EU.net Oleg Tabarovsky - olg(a)ussr.EU.net

1 0

Re: The Complete EBONE Up and Running !!!
by Olle Wallner 28 Sep '92

28 Sep '92

> > To the European IP community, > > This is to inform you that today, Sunday 26 September 1992, the final > link of the initially defined EBONE, the London-Montpellier link, was > put in place. The EBONE is now complete as a resilient pan-European IP > backbone. > > September 1, 1991, after an initiative by Kees Neggers, a small group > of people gathered for the first time, in an office building outside > Amsterdam, to see if it could be possible to build a pan-European IP > backbone. Today, 390 days later, the full backbone is up and running. > Without all the voluntary efforts put in this would never have been > possible. As a result we today see one of the worlds technically most > advanced backbones in Europe. > > I must admit I have never seen a group with so much expertise gathered > around the table and with so much enthusiasm in making this knowledge > serve the European networking user community. I will by this give my > deep gratitude to all those people involved in the fulfillment of the > first pan-European IP backbone. > > To make it short: > > > WE MADE IT!!! > ======================== > > There is some bottles of champaign waiting in Paris :-) > > See you there all of you, > > Bernhard Stockman. > Chair of the EBONE Action Team. > > Although not having the possibility to share the champaign in Paris, we at SwipNet do share your pride and joy that the Ebone ring is closed and the resilient backbone complete. We see this as a significant achievment in the creation of an infra stracture for both R&D and commercial IP traffic which eventually will span the glob. Thanks and congratulations to you and all EAT- and EOT-members, skipper and mates. Olle Wallner

1 0

Re: The Complete EBONE Up and Running !!!
by Klaus Birkenbihl 28 Sep '92

28 Sep '92

Congratulations to all involved. And the best - not completely altruistic :-) - wishes for further improvement of European-IP-connectivity. Regards, Klaus -+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+- + Klaus Birkenbihl Tel.: +49 02241 14 3177 + + Center for Science Networks Fax.: +49 02241 14 3002 + + GMD-ISA Email: Birkenbihl(a)GMD.DE + + Rathausallee 10 + + D-5205 Sankt Augustin 3 + -+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+- =++========== GMD's Center for Science Networks supports EMPB ==========++= =++= GMD's Center for Science Networks operates most of DFN's services =++= =++ GMD's Center for Science Networks provides more networking services ++= -+-------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 0

Re: [boss@ebone.net: The Complete EBONE Up and Running !!!]
by ramki＠ern.doe.ernet.in 28 Sep '92

28 Sep '92

Congrats boss, its inspiring. We in India are in the threshold of starting to build a nationwide robust good performance IP backbone, with rapid expansion capability to cover over 500 academic and research institutions in the next 12 months (365 days) with full IP connectivity. For info, I may mention that we do have an IP network at present it covers only about a dozen institutions with the rest of the 100 odd institutions being covered only by e-mail. The Indian academic and research network I am talking about is ERNET and is an Associate Member of RARE. Many of the key players of RARE/ European academic/research network scene have helped us in the last couple of years as members of an UNDP sponsered Expert Panel which meets once a year to review, advise, guide and set directions. Prof. Kirstein of UCL, Dr.Klaus Ullmann of RARE (and the President of RARE uptil recently) and Dr.Bob Cooper have been (and still are) members of the expert panel apart from Dr.Vint Cerf, VP, CNRI and currently President of the recently formed Internet Society. So pl accept our (from ERNET community in India) congrats on yr superb performance in setting up EBONE IP in such a short time and so well. We are equally proud of the European academic and research networking community and look forward to emulating the worthy example in the Indian scene. We also look forward to learning specific lessons from yr IP backbone ( as well as other issues) experience and wd appreciate some visit(s) from some of yr key members(who participated in yr recent successful effort) to ERNET, India in the coming months (not later than March '93, as our UNDP funding - the current phase- expires by then). Also we look forward to fruitful collaborative linkages (including specific joint projects) with the European community in a number of Engineering, research, product development, specifi- cation formulation, planning, performance analysis, simulation, new applicat- ions, end-user services, joint conferences, etc. I can list suggestive topics in each of the above areas but I guess it may be a little pre-mature to bore you too much too soon w/o ascertaining yr disposition ( or that of yr community) to the overall idea/concept (What are these bunch of guys from India trying to propose in the name of joint collaboration/cooperation, someone may cynically ask :-( ) ! Wd appreciate yr response at yr convenience. Congrats again. ramki (S.Ramakrishnan) Project Director(ERNET) and Director, Department of Electronics, Govt. of India > Received: from Strul.Stupi.SE by bsd.stupi.se (5.67/1.37) > id AA03159; Sat, 26 Sep 92 23:39:03 +0200 > Received: from ncc.ripe.net by strul.stupi.se (5.65/1.35) > id AA10424; Sat, 26 Sep 92 23:36:17 +0200 > Received: from sunic.sunet.se by ncc.ripe.net with SMTP > id AA27293 (5.65a/NCC-3.0); Sat, 26 Sep 1992 23:27:18 +0200 > Received: from localhost.sunet.se by sunic.sunet.se (5.65c8/1.28) > id AA09307; Sat, 26 Sep 1992 23:08:34 +0200 > Message-Id: <199209262108.AA09307(a)sunic.sunet.se> > To: ecco(a)ebone.net, eat(a)ebone.net, ripe(a)ripe.net > >From: boss(a)ebone.net > Subject: The Complete EBONE Up and Running !!! > Date: Sat, 26 Sep 92 23:08:33 +0200 > Sender: boss(a)sunet.se > > > To the European IP community, > > This is to inform you that today, Sunday 26 September 1992, the final > link of the initially defined EBONE, the London-Montpellier link, was > put in place. The EBONE is now complete as a resilient pan-European IP > backbone. > > September 1, 1991, after an initiative by Kees Neggers, a small group > of people gathered for the first time, in an office building outside > Amsterdam, to see if it could be possible to build a pan-European IP > backbone. Today, 390 days later, the full backbone is up and running. > Without all the voluntary efforts put in this would never have been > possible. As a result we today see one of the worlds technically most > advanced backbones in Europe. > > I must admit I have never seen a group with so much expertise gathered > around the table and with so much enthusiasm in making this knowledge > serve the European networking user community. I will by this give my > deep gratitude to all those people involved in the fulfillment of the > first pan-European IP backbone. > > To make it short: > > > WE MADE IT!!! > ======================== > > There is some bottles of champaign waiting in Paris :-) > > See you there all of you, > > Bernhard Stockman. > Chair of the EBONE Action Team. > > >

1 0

Re: The Complete EBONE Up and Running !!!
by Denis.Russell＠newcastle.ac.uk 28 Sep '92

28 Sep '92

Bernhard, and all your EBONERs, many congratulations! You have much to be proud of! Denis.

1 0

What are the COSINE/CPMU in the Rare officie doing?
by Peter Lothberg 28 Sep '92

28 Sep '92

Some days ago, we all received a long document that looked like this; >NOTE: the document has been received September 8, 1992. > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >COA (92)080 >T.Kalin >24.8.92 > RARE and RIPE / RIPE - NCC ....... >RIPE: > > RIPE should stay a technical IP coordinating body within RARE, but >having much more interaction with the RARE management, technical and >executive bodies (CoA, RTC, REC, Raresec) than in the past > according to its charter, RIPE should be serving wider population than >RARE membership > one should observe gradual merger (or at least very close cooperation) >between identical or related Working Groups of RARE and RIPE, leading to a >coordinated management of technical activities > RIPE should support establishment and utilisation of the EMPB, >particulary in the pilot phase, where the its expertise is crucially needed I have now learned through reliable sources that the EMPB/PTT-telecom is planning to subcontract "IP network Consulting" for EMPB to Softlabs. Another strange thing seems to be that the receiver was "Bruce Wallace at PTT telecom" I thought he was with the CPMU? This means that the IP-comunity of Europe will probably have a zero influence on the network, that are supposed to serve our comunity. And that CPMU totally ignores the skills of the Ripe comunity. We have to pay twice, as the skills of the coumunity are not used, and we have to pay the consultants on our taxes/charges! I might be wrong, if someone has better knowledge about this, please speak up. -Peter

2 1

RIPE DNS Hostcount September 1992
by Marten Terpstra 26 Sep '92

26 Sep '92

RIPErs, Below the DNS hostcount for September 1992. Remarks: - CS has a low count this month due to network reachability problems. I have tried two times more to count CS, but with the same result. - IT also has this problem, a few hundred hosts less due to network reachability problems. - PT has the same problem, although on a smaller scale. Also tried two times more, with the same result. - DE really takes off now, they are the first to reach 50,000+. - Overall another nice increase of just over 10,000 to reach 230,000 plus. - This count was done a bit earlier in the month than usual, but I needed the output for our 2nd Quarterly Report, and for the coming RIPE meeting ;-) - Next month we will start doing some tests with distributed counting. Some people have agreed to do the count for their own country within the country, and make the results available to me. This should decrease the influence of network and link outages, and increase the count even further. - All output can again be found on ftp.ripe.net:/ripe/hostcount. Check the README for details. Previous counts can be found in subdirectory History. - The total history has been appended again. You will find it below the hostcount. Enjoy, -Marten RIPE DNS Hostcount Previous Count : Mon Aug 31 1992 This Count : Sat Sep 26 1992 CY SOA COUNTED DUPL REAL CHANGE ============================================================ al 1 0 0 0 0 at 165 7055 45 7010 + 205 be 21 1574 57 1517 + 60 bg 1 0 0 0 0 by 0 0 0 0 0 ch 94 19586 180 19406 + 1624 cs 3 11 0 11 - 613 de 881 53382 1104 52278 + 4662 dk 71 4404 39 4365 + 1291 dz 0 0 0 0 0 ee 7 57 0 57 + 20 es 156 4280 82 4198 + 364 fi 134 17387 150 17237 + 369 fr 292 19740 167 19573 + 410 gb 1 2 0 2 + 1 gr 45 671 137 534 + 57 hr 0 0 0 0 0 hu 4 121 2 119 + 86 ie 23 843 4 839 + 176 is 10 556 6 550 + 104 it 169 4976 194 4782 - 192 il 41 3238 139 3099 + 253 lt 1 0 0 0 0 lu 5 79 1 78 0 lv 1 0 0 0 0 nl 233 21611 373 21238 + 40 no 311 15683 213 15470 + 601 pl 54 678 9 669 + 4 pt 47 1381 22 1359 - 26 ro 0 0 0 0 0 se 341 22996 194 22802 + 1065 si 1 0 0 0 0 su 127 29 1 28 + 2 tn 2 9 0 9 0 ua 0 0 0 0 0 uk 310 38353 3072 35281 + 10 va 0 0 0 0 0 yu 2 11 0 11 - 2 ============================================================ 3554 238713 6191 232522 +10571 History Oct 1990 31724 Nov 1990 33665 Dec 1990 29230 Jan 1991 43832 Feb 1991 - Mar 1991 44506 Apr 1991 46948 May 1991 - Jun 1991 63267 Jul 1991 - Aug 1991 73069 Sep 1991 92834 Oct 1991 104824 Nov 1991 129652 Dec 1991 - Jan 1992 - Feb 1992 161434 Mar 1992 167939 Apr 1992 170050 May 1992 182528 Jun 1992 196758 Jul 1992 213017 Aug 1992 221951 Sep 1992 232522

1 0

Re: Japanese Public IP providers
by konish＠kddnews3.kddlabs.co.jp 25 Sep '92

25 Sep '92

>Subject: Japanese Public IP providers >From: Peter Houlder <Peter.Houlder(a)uknet.ac.uk> >Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 10:12:35 +0100 >Message-Id: <5723.717412355(a)uknet.ac.uk> >Sender: Peter.Houlder(a)uknet.ac.uk > > >I have been asked by a UK company with Japanese contacts if >Japan can offer public IP facilities, so that a user in the >UK could speak IP with a Japanese site. I have no clear >indication of the commercial/research/academic status of the >Japanese site, so a general reply stating the alternatives >would be appreciated. > >All information gratefully received. > >Peter Houlder > There is NOT a commercial IP provider in Japan now. There are a few research/academic IP networks in Japan now. The biggest one is WIDE-internet, the owner of which is jun(a)wide.ad.jp. He is a professor of Keio University. We, KDD have operated a UUCP public international gateway for more than seven years, but the regulation for the leased circuit prevents us serving IP connectivity. We have about 250 companies as members. jun(a)wide.ad.jp and KDD have begun to examine a commercial IP provider. We are endeavouring to set up a new company this year, and it will provide a public commercial IP connectivity from January, 1993. KDD will be a big stock-holder, but the details are negotiating. The new provider will have an IP link to Europe via U.S.A. Thanks in advance, Kazunori Konishi

1 0

IETF/IESG Information Architecture
by Greg Vaudreuil 25 Sep '92

25 Sep '92

The announcements of the four Working Groups were sent to the IETF mailing list. For instructions to retreive the charters from anonymous FTP sites or by mail, please send a message to ietf-info(a)nri.reston.va.us. Greg Vaudreuil ------- Forwarded Message Date: Thu, 24 Sep 92 17:55:13 -0400 From: Greg Vaudreuil <gvaudre(a)NRI.Reston.VA.US> To: IETF-Announce: ; Subject: IESG Information Architecture In Following messages, the IESG will announce several new Working Groups in the User Services and Applications Areas chartered to integrate Internet Information services. Below is a draft statement of the architectural framework written by the Working Group chairs and the Area Directors as part of the chartering process. For more information, please contact Joyce Reynolds or Russ Hobby. Greg Vaudreuil IESG Secretary. "Integrated Information Architecture" (Revised 9/15/92) Many new networked services to identify, access, and retrieve information resources have sprung up in the last several years -- archie, WAIS, and Netfind, to name only three. Now, much as the Internet has tied many disparate networks together into an integrated system, the pressing problem is how to integrate these many new services into a single coordinated Internet information naming, discovery, and retrieval system. There are three vital areas of this integration effort that the IESG is interested in pursuing: 1) The identification, cataloging, and documentation of networked information services, new and old. 2) The standardization of descriptions and identification schemes for networked resources, and the distribution and implementation of these identifiers. 3) The integration and interoperability of the various new information services. To this end, the IESG is creating three new working groups: 1) Networked Information Retrieval (NIR) -- NIR will work on the first issue above by identifying, cataloging, and documenting networked information services. The result will be a published catalog of network information retrieval services. In addition, NIR will liaise with other organizations working on this goal, such as RARE ISUS and CNI. 2) Uniform Resource Identifiers (URI) -- URI will concentrate on the second issue above, particularly on the standardization and implementation of identification schemes for networked resources. There will be two primary components in this effort: a Uniform Resource Locator (URL) which is a string which tells how to locate a document. The second part is a Universal Resource Serial Number, which is used to uniquely identify a resource, so that one can, for example tell if two documents with different file names are, in fact, the same. The standard identification scheme developed by URI will be used by NIR to define the standard resource formats. 3) Integration of Internet Information Resources (IIIR) -- IIIR will work on the third issue by developing technical specifications and documentation for a) interoperation between the various information services and b) the integration of new information services into the existing CIM (combined information mesh). After the specifications for interoperation have been completed, IIIR will examine the need for additional protocols necessary to further integrate the CIM, including gateway protocols, query routing protocols, and other mechanisms. In addition to the above named groups, the IETF wishes to facilitate the standardization of descriptions and data formats for various specific information services by chartering single-protocol working groups which will work on this standardization. Examples of such groups are the Internet Anonymous FTP Archive group (IAFA), which is working on standardization of anonymous FTP archives, and the new Whois Network Information Lookup Service (WNILS), which is working on standardization of services using the WHOIS protocol. The IESG considers these WGs to be components of a single coordinated IETF effort to create an integrated Internet information architecture. Therefore, the chairs and membership of each group will be active participants in the other groups. The overall coordination of this effort will be under the joint management of the Applications and User Services Area. Due to the importance of an Integrated Internet Information Service Architecture, the IESG requests the working group chairs and the Applications and User Services area directors to jointly expand this brief overview into a more fully fleshed out architectural statement, and to issue periodic progress reports describing how the integrated information service is developing. ------- End of Forwarded Message

1 0

RE: Japanese Public IP providers
by ROBERT.D.COLLET＠sprint.sprint.com 25 Sep '92

25 Sep '92

Peter: at the current time there are no Commercial IP service providers in Japan. Consequently, there is no commercial infrastructure between the USA CIX members and Japan. Hopefully, that situation will change within the next few months. An interim measure would be for the customer in Japan to connect to an X.25 network which has connectivity to a USA Commercial Internet. Both SprintLink and PSInet utilize SprintNet for applications like this. I think UUnet uses Compuserve. Bob

1 0

Japanese Public IP providers
by Peter Houlder 25 Sep '92

25 Sep '92

Before I get flamed for not mailing ip-providers(a)ripe.net I should say that I am not clear if that list extends to outside of Europe hence my mailing ripe(a)ripe.net. I have been asked by a UK company with Japanese contacts if Japan can offer public IP facilities, so that a user in the UK could speak IP with a Japanese site. I have no clear indication of the commercial/research/academic status of the Japanese site, so a general reply stating the alternatives would be appreciated. All information gratefully received. Peter Houlder

1 0

Re: Found some sort of a clue... (fwd)
by Wilfried Maschtera 24 Sep '92

24 Sep '92

On Thu, 24 Sep 92 13:21:49 EET you said: Dear Colleagues, The entry for .BG points to MAILER(a)AEARN.As a result of the discussion in March MAILER@AEARN routes mail to the domain .BG to SMTP@AEARN. This requires a local supplement to the profile generator. On September, 22nd, I had to generate a new profile. Because of some reasons the changes to the local input were numerous. Unfortunately the entry for .BG in the local file was deleted causing a loop in the network mailer. The error is corrected. I apologize for this mistake. I am surpised to learn from Daniel's letter that this situation also existed during the last six months because nobody has complained between March 9th and September 22nd. I recommend to contact the sites involved if an error occurs to clarify the situation. To the situation in Bulgaria I can only repeat that AEARN does not interfere into this national affair and I ask Daniel to accept this now. Regards / Wilfried >I do not know if you are aware of it, but this did happen already >six months. I hope it would not continue to happen, because users >complain that they do not receive their mail, which is misrouted for >who knows what reasons to AEARN. > >The last story was that the Bulgarian Academy of Sciences claimed to >be the "international networking body" for Bulgaria, which is of >course just a funny statement. I would at least ask you to inform the >.BG top level domain administration if you decide to force route the >traffic somewhere. > >I would ask EARN once again to please not "borrow" the .BG top level >domain from Internet. If you do not know what to do with the mail, >simply route it to your nearest Internet gateway. Thanks! > >Sorry for the long Cc: list, but this problem should really be >solved. > >Sincerely, >Daniel Kalchev > >Forwarded message: >> Subject: Found some sort of a clue... >> Message-Id: <JOHNSON.920923165504(a)maine.maine.EDU> >> From: Johnson(a)Maine.Maine.Edu (Jay Johnson) >> To: daniel(a)danbo.uucp (Daniel Kalchev) >> Date: Wed, 23 Sep 92 16:55:04 EDT >> >> Apparently our mailer got an over-ride record from BITNET >> which directs BG traffic to AEARN. Our mailer treated my >> mail as subject to it and sent it to AEARN which, I guess, >> doesn't know how to get to danbo. >> The mx records are first to try forth.gr and then eu.net >> as I remember which seemed ok though I'd have thought the >> order would be reversed. >> So thought you'd like to know that sites which have BITNET >> as well as Internet links and mailers as dumb as ours may >> be giving grief. >> >

1 0

Re: Found some sort of a clue... (fwd)
by Hank Nussbacher 24 Sep '92

24 Sep '92

On Thu, 24 Sep 1992 14:46:54 +0200 you said: > For the future: let's try to have a little bit more cooperative > attitude, would you? If something goes wrong again: first contact > the AEARN people and *afterward* (if you still like) flame. >I don't remember having flamed you. It's the lack of response >and the background of the whole situation that made me flame; >and not flame those who happen to make a configuration error, >but those who demonstrate non-cooperativeness. > > > Piet Lack of response? I maintain the file that points .BG to AEARN. This afternoon is the first complaint I have heard about it - only after Daniel forwarded me a copy of the complaint. I am not able to read minds over the network - as soon as I got the mail, I forwarded a copy to the 2 people in Austria who are responsible for AEARN and within an hour you had a response from one of them. Can you be more specific with what you mean by "those who demonstrate non-cooperativeness". Having an unnoticed configuration problem in Austria for 2 days happens also to the best of us. Hank

2 1

Re: Found some sort of a clue... (fwd)
by Daniele Bovio 24 Sep '92

24 Sep '92

On Thu, 24 Sep 1992 13:49:17 +0200 you said: > I would ask EARN once again to please not "borrow" the .BG top > level domain from Internet. >So history repeats itself.... Why don't people want >to learn from hard experience? > we learn, dear Piet, we learn, but configuration problems may happen even in the best family, is't it? For the future: let's try to have a little bit more cooperative attitude, would you? If something goes wrong again: first contact the AEARN people and *afterward* (if you still like) flame. Thank you. > > Piet d.

2 1

Found some sort of a clue... (fwd)
by daniel＠digsys.bg 24 Sep '92

24 Sep '92

Dear Colleagues, I do not know if you are aware of it, but this did happen already six months. I hope it would not continue to happen, because users complain that they do not receive their mail, which is misrouted for who knows what reasons to AEARN. The last story was that the Bulgarian Academy of Sciences claimed to be the "international networking body" for Bulgaria, which is of course just a funny statement. I would at least ask you to inform the .BG top level domain administration if you decide to force route the traffic somewhere. I would ask EARN once again to please not "borrow" the .BG top level domain from Internet. If you do not know what to do with the mail, simply route it to your nearest Internet gateway. Thanks! Sorry for the long Cc: list, but this problem should really be solved. Sincerely, Daniel Kalchev Forwarded message: > Subject: Found some sort of a clue... > Message-Id: <JOHNSON.920923165504(a)maine.maine.EDU> > From: Johnson(a)Maine.Maine.Edu (Jay Johnson) > To: daniel(a)danbo.uucp (Daniel Kalchev) > Date: Wed, 23 Sep 92 16:55:04 EDT > > Apparently our mailer got an over-ride record from BITNET > which directs BG traffic to AEARN. Our mailer treated my > mail as subject to it and sent it to AEARN which, I guess, > doesn't know how to get to danbo. > The mx records are first to try forth.gr and then eu.net > as I remember which seemed ok though I'd have thought the > order would be reversed. > So thought you'd like to know that sites which have BITNET > as well as Internet links and mailers as dumb as ours may > be giving grief. >

2 1