- ripe-atlas - mailman.ripe.net

RIPE Atlas anchors update
by becha 16 Sep '13

16 Sep '13

Dear RIPE Atlas users, we are happy to share with you the results of the pilot phase of RIPE Atlas anchors, and plans for the production service. Two recent RIPE Labs article give you the details: * technical results of virtualization testing: https://labs.ripe.net/Members/romeo_zwart/further-virtualisation-testing-fo… * "mesh" measurements between all anchors, moving to smaller box and different hardware platform, and making the service for all, not only members: https://labs.ripe.net/Members/becha/ripe-atlas-anchors-pilot-summary-and-ne… We are looking forward to see you at RIPE67, MAT-WG, and in the meantime, to your comments and feedback on this list. Kind regards, Vesna -- Vesna Manojlovic BECHA(a)ripe.net Senior Community Builder @Ms_Measurements for Measurements Tools RIPE NCC http://ripe.net

1 0

No IPv6 Connection on Probe
by David Churchill 13 Sep '13

13 Sep '13

I've noticed that my probe (12070) has not had any IPv6 connectivity for the last several days. I've reset the probe a couple of times and verified that my internet service still has full IPv6 connectivity (@http://test-ipv6.comcast.net/). Is there anything I can do to restore the IPv6 connectivity? Thanks, David C. Churchill 5285 Vinings Springs Trl Mableton, GA 30126 770.819.5935 d_churchill(a)comcast.net

2 1

A small matter of terminology
by Stephane Bortzmeyer 10 Sep '13

10 Sep '13

A long time ago, there was only one sort of measurement. Then, one-off measurements were created. How do we call the other category? Periodic measurements? Repeated measurements?

1 0

New On RIPE Labs: The Seismograph And Other RIPE Atlas Features
by Michela Galante 09 Sep '13

09 Sep '13

Dear colleagues, We have added a couple of new RIPE Atlas features including the Seismograph, zoomable ping graphs and others. You can find the details in an article on RIPE Labs here: https://labs.ripe.net/Members/becha/seismograph-and-other-new-ripe-atlas-fe… Kind regards Michela Galante Project Coordinator RIPE NCC

1 0

Using Atlas for commercial services
by Stephane Bortzmeyer 05 Sep '13

05 Sep '13

Hello, happy Atlasers, After reading <https://labs.ripe.net/Members/kranjbar/future-of-ripe-ncc-technical-services> (specially the part about using Atlas to monitor reachability from Nagios), the ToS <https://atlas.ripe.net/service-rules/> and checking the FAQ <https://atlas.ripe.net/about/faq/>, I still have a question: Can I use Atlas as a basis for commercial services? Today, most Atlas uses seem to be for public research, or for "selfish" measurements (checking my network). But I see nothing forbidding people to sell services (monitoring, quality assessment) to other people, based on Atlas. Is it on purpose? [Yes, I have one or two business ideas and I would like to know before I continue developing them.]

11 15

Re: [atlas] Using Atlas for commercial services
by Hook 05 Sep '13

05 Sep '13

As already said, commercial usage would also mean that you have to earn credits in some way. As far as I know, it's only possible to earn credits by - hosting probes itself - sponsoring new probes - getting a LIR In either of the first two cases, the atlas project will benefit from it. The third one is a special case and isn't worth a discussion. So I think we should allow commercial usage of the Atlas project, if commercial usage still means to support the Atlas project itself because of the need for credits! Would be a win-win situation. Michael 2013/9/5 Daniel Karrenberg <daniel.karrenberg(a)ripe.net> > > On 05.09.2013, at 11:42 , Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer(a)nic.fr> wrote: > > > On Thu, Sep 05, 2013 at 05:22:50PM +0800, > > Sanjeev Gupta <ghane0(a)gmail.com> wrote > > a message of 107 lines which said: > > > >> Adam Smith was right, the baker and the butcher feed me by being > selfish. > > > > So, apparently, there is no consensus among the Atlas community. An > > interesting discussion to have in Athens? > > It is a discussion we should have in the mat-wg. The working groups work > on the mailing lists; physical meetings are just focal points for the work. > > Daniel > > >

1 0

Disabling one measurement on my probe...
by Warren Kumari 02 Sep '13

02 Sep '13

Hi all, Due to much stupidity my probe lives behind 2 NATs (don't ask). Anyway, one of the NATs / firewalls is suddenly throwing hissyfits and logging a bunch of messages like: [00005] 2013-08-27 17:33:29 [Root]system-critical-00435: ICMP fragment! From 78.46.37.134 to 192.168.15.207, proto 1 (zone Untrust, int ethernet3). Occurred 2 times. I can see the Measurement IDs that are causing this (1019675, 1019728), but I have two questions: 1: is there a way to disable specific measurements from a specific probe and 2: did anything change recently with the "Ping" measurement, like the packet size for example? I *did* spend some time reading the list archives and documentation, but was not able to find an answer. W P.S: And yes, I will sometime remove the NATs, but cannot until there is another ISP available -- I live in a 3rd world country where any broadened is a luxury, and multiple providers is more than one can reasonably expect… -- "When it comes to glittering objects, wizards have all the taste and self-control of a deranged magpie." -- Terry Pratchett

4 4

Data visualization not working?
by Max Grobecker 29 Aug '13

29 Aug '13

Hi, is there any known reason/issue why new created measurements don't visualize the data? I'm pretty sure I ticked the "Visualize Data" box when creating a new measurement, but when I open my new measurement, the "RRD" tab is missing and in the settings the "Visualize" box is unchecked :-( Is it just me or do other people have the same issue? Greetings, Max

2 2

Reddit?
by Daniel Quinn 29 Aug '13

29 Aug '13

Hello everyone, I'm one of the developers on the RIPE Atlas project and I'm hoping some of you can help me figure out if we should have a presence on [Reddit](http://www.reddit.com/) and if so, where. I'm a pretty active member of that community, so I was appointed to ask the lot of you if we should bother setting up a subreddit, or if we should just frequent any particular subreddit to answer questions and/or promote RIPE Atlas. So, does anyone reading this fancy the idea of better outreach on Reddit? And if so, in what way would you recommend? Feel free to post your responses to the list, or just respond to me directly. We'll let you know if we decide to branch out in this way.

3 4

Success stories to share at RIPE67?
by Vesna Manojlovic 27 Aug '13

27 Aug '13

Hi RIPE Atlas active hosts & users, I know of two RIPE Atlas related talks that are still being considered for RIPE67 -- and there might be more! Do you have a success story to share? Plenary-talks CallForPapers is extended, and then there are working-group sessions too, MAT-wg being the most typical, but in the past there were presentations on using RIPE Atlas in IPv6-WG and DNS, and Routing-WG... If you need help with preparing slides, or doing extra measurements to prove your tests - do let us know! Good luck if you decide to present, and see you at RIPE67! Regards, Vesna -------- Original Message -------- Dear Colleagues, A list of currently accepted RIPE 67 Plenary talks, BoFs, Tutorials and Workshops is now published at: https://ripe67.ripe.net/programme/meeting-plan/draft-programme/ There are still few slots remaining for a final RIPE 67 programme and RIPE Programme Committee will accept new proposals until *9 September 2013*. This is our last call for you to submit your proposals. See https://ripe67.ripe.net/programme/cfp/ or find the original CFP below. Kind regards Filiz Yilmaz for RIPE Programme Committee ------------------ Call for Presentations A RIPE Meeting is an open event where Internet Service Providers, network operators and other interested parties get together. Although the meeting is mostly technical, it is also a chance for people to meet and network with others in their field. RIPE 67 will take place from 14-18 October 2013 in Athens, Greece. The RIPE Programme Committee (PC) is now seeking content proposals from the RIPE community for the plenary session presentations, BoFs (Birds of a Feather sessions), panels, workshops, tutorials and lightning talks at RIPE 67. The PC is looking for presentations covering topics of network engineering and operations, including but not limited to: * IPv6 deployment * Managing IPv4 scarcity in operations * Commercial transactions of IPv4 addresses * Data centre technologies * Network and DNS operations * Internet governance and regulatory practices * Network and routing security * Content delivery * Internet peering and mobile data exchange Submissions RIPE Meeting attendees are quite sensitive to keeping presentations non-commercial, and product marketing talks are strongly discouraged. Repeated audience feedback shows that the most successful talks focus on operational experience, research results, or case studies. For example, presenters wishing to describe a commercial solution should focus on the underlying technology and not attempt a product demonstration. The RIPE PC accepts proposals for different presentation formats, including plenary session presentations, tutorials, workshops, BoFs (Birds of a Feather sessions) and lightning talks. See the full descriptions of these formats at https://ripe67.ripe.net/programme/i-want-to-present/presentation-formats/ Presenters who are proposing a panel or BoF are encouraged to include speakers from several (perhaps even competing) companies and/or a neutral facilitator. In addition to presentations selected in advance for the plenary, the RIPE PC also offers several time slots for "lightning talks", which are selected immediately before or during the conference. The following general requirements apply: * Proposals for plenary session presentations, BoFs, panels, workshops and tutorials must be submitted for full consideration no later than 4 August 2013, using the meeting submission system (https://ripe67.ripe.net/submit-topic/). Proposals submitted after this date will be considered on a space-available basis. * Lightning talks should also be submitted using the meeting submission system (https://ripe67.ripe.net/submit-topic/) and can be submitted just days before the RIPE Meeting starts or even during the meeting week. The allocation of lightning talk slots will be announced in short notice - in some cases on the same day but often one day prior to the relevant session. * Presenters should indicate how much time they will require. See more information on time slot allocations per presentation format (https://ripe67.ripe.net/programme/i-want-to-present/presentation-formats/) * Proposals for talks will only be considered by the PC if they contain at least draft presentation slides (slides may be updated later on). For panels, proposals must contain a clear description, as well as the names of invited panelists, presenters and moderators. * Due to potential technical issues, it is expected that most, if not all, presenters/panelists will be physically present at the RIPE Meeting. If you have any questions or requests concerning content submissions, please email pc [at] ripe [dot] net.

1 0

Garbage Measurements
by Michael Stevens 26 Aug '13

26 Aug '13

Hello, at the moment I'm seeing a lot of measurements on my both probes, that doesn't have any live target and, sometimes, have even invalid targets like 2001:db8:0:dead:beef::1 which is part of the IPv6 for documentation purposes. I've made a screenshot here: http://i.imgur.com/PRXHsOZ.png Can someone from RIPE check this out? Not sure if there is someone abusing RIPE Atlas in a nasty way. Michael

5 5

Crediting for probe uptime
by Robert Kisteleki 23 Aug '13

23 Aug '13

Dear All, In the last two days we noticed a hickup in the crediting procedure (the one that gives credits to probe hosts and sponsors). We believe the proper fix is in place now. We just finished crediting everyone for the time period in question, which means all of the probes generated more than usual credits -- compensating for the missing ones lately, and some interest :-) We apologise for the inconvenience this may have caused. Regards, Robert Kisteleki

1 0

On RIPE Labs: Future of the RIPE NCC technical services
by Vesna Manojlovic 23 Aug '13

23 Aug '13

Dear colleagues, please take a look at the Labs article by Kaveh Ranjbar, which touches upon the future of the RIPE Atlas services: https://labs.ripe.net/Members/kranjbar/future-of-ripe-ncc-technical-services Regards, Vesna

1 0

IPv6 Report - Blank
by Tom Kacprzynski 22 Aug '13

22 Aug '13

Hello, Is anyone else having the issue of downloading IPv6 measurement reports? I ran few of them and the file is empty. I tried downloading both formats JSON and Fragment. I also tried downloading the public measurement without any luck either. Thanks -- *Tom Kacprzynski*

2 2

Geo locations confirmed
by Marco Davids (SIDN) 20 Aug '13

20 Aug '13

Hi, Are any of the geo-locations of Atlas probes confirmed, double-checked, or verified by RIPE? Or do we just have to take for granted, whatever the owner of the probe enters in the probe's settings ? Thanks, -- Marco

2 1

v3 Probe got disconnected and won't reconnect
by Axel Fischer 14 Aug '13

14 Aug '13

Hi, on 2013-08-11 at 05:15:30 UTC one of our probes (ID: 11707) got disconnected. It is connected via a switch to a router within our network. I can see the link up (it remained up all the time) but see the 3rd LED (Network Test) and 4th LED (Connecting) blinking. The MAC was visible on the switch port and router. I powercycled the probe but no change except that the MAC is no longer visible on the router. With a laptop instead of the probe it works fine. Is the probe broken? How can this state be fixed? Regards, Axel -- Axel Fischer Network Engineer 1&1 Internet AG Brauerstrasse 48 D-76135 Karlsruhe http://www.1und1.de (AS8560) Hauptsitz Montabaur, Amtsgericht Montabaur, HRB 6484 Vorstand: Ralph Dommermuth, Frank Einhellinger, Robert Hoffmann, Andreas Hofmann, Markus Huhn, Hans-Henning Kettler, Uwe Lamnek, Jan Oetjen, Christian Würst Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Michael Scheeren Member of United Internet Diese E-Mail kann vertrauliche und/oder gesetzlich geschützte Informationen enthalten. Wenn Sie nicht der bestimmungsgemäße Adressat sind oder diese E-Mail irrtümlich erhalten haben, unterrichten Sie bitte den Absender und vernichten Sie diese Email. Anderen als dem bestimmungsgemäßen Adressaten ist untersagt, diese E-Mail zu speichern, weiterzuleiten oder ihren Inhalt auf welche Weise auch immer zu verwenden. This E-Mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient of this E-Mail, you are hereby notified that saving, distribution or use of the content of this E-Mail in any way is prohibited. If you have received this E-Mail in error, please notify the sender and delete the E-Mail.

3 2

Probe sharing
by Martin Stanislav 08 Aug '13

08 Aug '13

Hi, This spring RIPE Atlas update [1] introduced a new feature called probe sharing. Probe sharing should work for colleagues within the same LIR and is to be set via: "My Probes" -> "Probe's Settings" -> "General Configuration" -> Select your LIR in the "Share with" field. I've set the "Share with" field to our LIR ID for all three local probes. But a colleague of mine, in spite of being able to login to the Lirportal, sees an error message below every time he tries to access the probe list at https://atlas.ripe.net/atlas/myprobes.html The error message: "You are not logged in as a RIPE NCC member". Is there anything I've missed? Possible delay in privilege propagation from the Lirportal to Atlas section? Thanks. Martin [1] https://labs.ripe.net/Members/kistel/new-ripe-atlas-features-april-2013

4 4

Multiple Probe v3 Disconnects
by David Churchill 08 Aug '13

08 Aug '13

I just received my v3 probe 3 days ago and I've noticed on the status page that that there are quite a few disconnects: Disconnect at: Connected time: Disconnected time: (still connected) 0d, 0h, 30m (still connected) 2013-08-08 11:37:44 UTC 0d, 0h, 38m 0d, 0h, 2m 2013-08-08 10:49:09 UTC 0d, 1h, 14m 0d, 0h, 10m 2013-08-08 09:31:38 UTC 0d, 2h, 2m 0d, 0h, 3m 2013-08-08 07:25:41 UTC 0d, 1h, 22m 0d, 0h, 3m 2013-08-08 05:53:24 UTC 0d, 1h, 26m 0d, 0h, 9m 2013-08-08 04:24:56 UTC 0d, 2h, 23m 0d, 0h, 2m 2013-08-08 01:57:23 UTC 0d, 1h, 18m 0d, 0h, 4m 2013-08-08 00:35:09 UTC 0d, 0h, 26m 0d, 0h, 3m 2013-08-08 00:05:53 UTC 0d, 1h, 25m 0d, 0h, 2m 2013-08-07 22:37:14 UTC 0d, 1h, 12m 0d, 0h, 3m 2013-08-07 21:20:56 UTC 0d, 0h, 4m 0d, 0h, 4m 2013-08-07 21:11:44 UTC 0d, 2h, 9m 0d, 0h, 4m 2013-08-07 18:59:32 UTC 0d, 0h, 39m 0d, 0h, 2m 2013-08-07 18:18:40 UTC 0d, 6h, 12m 0d, 0h, 1m 2013-08-07 12:03:56 UTC 0d, 12h, 42m 0d, 0h, 1m 2013-08-06 23:19:16 UTC 0d, 0h, 4m 0d, 0h, 2m 2013-08-06 23:15:08 UTC 0d, 0h, 2m 0d, 0h, 0m 2013-08-06 23:05:16 UTC 0d, 4h, 45m 0d, 0h, 7m 2013-08-06 18:17:13 UTC 0d, 1h, 54m 0d, 0h, 2m 2013-08-06 16:18:39 UTC 0d, 0h, 45m 0d, 0h, 3m 2013-08-06 15:32:39 UTC 0d, 0h, 41m 0d, 0h, 0m 2013-08-06 14:50:33 UTC 0d, 2h, 32m 0d, 0h, 0m 2013-08-06 05:51:43 UTC 0d, 6h, 47m 0d, 6h, 25m Is this something I should be concerned about? If so, could it have to do with the fact that my probe is plugged into a 10/100/1000 MBit switch (I saw an earlier thread that suggested this might be an issue)? If the Gigabit switch is a problem, would it help if I cascade a 10/100 switch off one of the Gigabit switch's ports, or off one of my router's ports (which are all Gigabit) and then plug the probe into that 10/100 switch? Finally, I'm using a cell phone charger for power, it's 5V, mini-usb, I don't think that should cause an issue should it? Thanks for any help, David C. Churchill 5285 Vinings Springs Trl Mableton, GA 30126 770.819.5935 d_churchill(a)comcast.net

3 4

1000Base-T not supported?
by Tore Anderson 08 Aug '13

08 Aug '13

Today I was struggling to get a v3 probe (TP-Link) connected to my network, the link just wouldn't come up. On a whim I tried connecting it to a tri-rate 10/100/100Base-T device, and lo and behold - it came alive! Only 100Mb, though. Is it really the case that the probes don't support 1GbE? The probe has «150Mb» printed on it, which strikes me as rather odd if it's limited upwards to 100Mb. Tore

3 4

RIPE Atlas maintenance on Tuesday, 6 August
by Robert Kisteleki 06 Aug '13

06 Aug '13

Dear RIPE Atlas users, We'd like to let you know that we plan to perform scheduled maintenance on the RIPE Atlas central infrastructure on Tuesday, 6 August, for a couple of hours during the day. In this period, main features including the RIPE Atlas user interface (atlas.ripe.net), data downloads and measurement scheduling functions will be unavailable. Probes will continue to work and all results will still be collected or buffered; however, during the maintenance period you will be unable to log in to the website, manage your probes/measurements, or get to result data/visualisations. We apologise for any inconvenience this may cause. Regards, Robert Kisteleki

1 1

Probe no longer on an IPv6 network?
by Rusty Dekema 05 Aug '13

05 Aug '13

Good evening, When I first installed it, probe 10555 was on a network which supports IPv6. Since then, I have moved it to a different network which does not have IPv6 access at all. Is there something I should do to let the RIPE Atlas system know that it no longer has IPv6 access? It seems like there should be, but I haven't found it. I would not like for it to be one of those probes which "thinks" it has IPv6 but actually does not... Thanks, Rusty D

2 1

adding a device
by folkert 05 Aug '13

05 Aug '13

Hi, Yesterday I received a probe-device at a conference. I entered the details in the website (which was a lot of fun: finding out the ipv4 prefix(?!) - I ended up trying a couple of entries found in the whois info of my ipv4 address, also in what format should I enter the mac-address?) but the device does not appear in the "My probes" list. Even after a couple of hours. I verified that it got an ip4-address from the dhcp server and also radvd is happily announcing the ipv6-prefix in that segment. Furthermore: I see that the probe is doing all kinds of network traffic to the internet. So the device at itself seems to work. What can be wrong? Folkert van Heusden -- Always wondered what the latency of your webserver is? Or how much more latency you get when you go through a proxy server/tor? The numbers tell the tale and with HTTPing you know them! http://www.vanheusden.com/httping/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com

3 3

Registering a new probe...
by Chris Elliott 31 Jul '13

31 Jul '13

I have one probe (3690), and just received two new probes from Nathalie Trenaman, thanks to Bert Wijnen. However, either I'm just flat out missing something or the registration page is broken. I go here: https://atlas.ripe.net/register/ I ensure I'm logged in, and try to complete the registration process. No matter what, it always says: - There were some problems with your submission. Please see below However, nothing is highlighted or otherwise called out as an issue. I've tried various combinations in various fields, with no success. Here's one of the settings I've tried: - On what sort of network will you be installing the probe? * Residential/Consumer Business Network Educational Network IXP RIPE NCC Member (LIR) - Organisation Name * - What's the connection speed like on that network? * < 1 Mb/s 1-4 Mb/s 5-9 Mb/s 10-19 Mb/s 20-49 Mb/s 50-99 Mb/s 100-499 Mb/s 500-999 Mb/s > 1 Gb/s I don't know - AS Number - My network supports IPv4 - IPv4 Network Prefix - Please enter a valid prefix. - My network supports IPv6 - IPv6 Network Prefix - How did you receive your probe? * From conference/training From sponsor Other - Who is the sponsor? * - MAC Address - Location * <http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=21.351893,-102.718887&z=2&t=m&hl=en-US&mapcl…> Map data ©2013 MapLink - Terms of Use<http://www.google.com/intl/en-US_US/help/terms_maps.html> Map Satellite - I'm willing to keep the probe online 24/7 - I'm willing to make my probe visible to the public - I accept the rules of the game a.k.a. Pilot Service Rules<https://atlas.ripe.net/service-rules/> * Thanks for looking into this issue. Chris. -- Chris Elliott chelliot(a)pobox.com

2 2

HTTP or not HTTP?
by Stephane Bortzmeyer 31 Jul '13

31 Jul '13

I'm surprised to see in UDM documentation that you can do HTTP measurements: https://atlas.ripe.net/doc/udm#http-http6 But I do not find this option in the "Choose a measurement" menu of the Web interface. And it is not documented in the REST API: https://atlas.ripe.net/doc/measurement-creation-api/ > type: One of ping,traceroute,dns or sslcert So, can we do HTTP measurements with the Atlas probes?

2 3

Outdated documentation to delete
by Stephane Bortzmeyer 30 Jul '13

30 Jul '13

IMHO, the "mechanize" example in <https://atlas.ripe.net/doc/code#access_from_scripts> is useless now that we have an API and should be deleted.

1 0

Spoofing the source IP address from a probe?
by Stephane Bortzmeyer 30 Jul '13

30 Jul '13

I read in the interesting <http://www.internetsociety.org/blog/2013/06/can-we-stop-ip-spoofing-internet> about BCP38 (anti-spoofing): > Another possibility that was suggested is using RIPE Atlas probes to > probe network capabilities (or shall we say incapabilities?). AFAIK, Atlas probes cannot currently perform these tests, am I correct?

9 11

Re: [atlas] Spoofing the source IP address from a probe?
by Alex Saroyan 30 Jul '13

30 Jul '13

Hi, Probably we don't need to spoof all address space, instead only if spoofing enabled just spoof to some predefined address range. Regards. /Alex Sanjeev Gupta <ghane0(a)gmail.com> wrote: >On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 11:22 AM, Randy Bush <randy(a)psg.com> wrote: > >> I support this point of view. I think controlled (anti-)spoofing >> measurements performed by the RIPE NCC with the consent of >> participating probes would be a good service to the community. > >perhaps the probe owners are not the only parties with skin in the game >and whose consent would be relevant? > > >Exactly. I host probes, and since you are spoofing others, we need to ask them. > >How you do this is left as an exercise to the reader. > >-- >Sanjeev Gupta >+65 98551208 http://www.linkedin.com/in/ghane > > >

1 0

Re: [atlas] Outdated for more than one day?
by Fred Grayson 28 Jul '13

28 Jul '13

Hello, The probe ID is 10156. It is attached to a third interface on my router. The graphs have been stalled for the last four days. The probe went online on June 26 and all was well until this happened on July 24. Thanks for looking. FG On 7/28/2013 6:35 AM, Iñigo Ortiz de Urbina wrote: > Good morning Fred, > > I just took a minute to check what you shared with the list. > > My two probes and built-in measurements look just fine (i.e they are > up to date). Your issue may be a temporary error. However, if you'd > like more details on your particular probe/problem pair, I've found it > to be helpful to provide details, such as probe ID or which controller > it is attached to. > > Are you still seeing the same stalled graphs? > > Regards, > > On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 8:53 PM, Fred Grayson <fred_grayson(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >> Hello, >> >> Recently, all Built-in-Measurments for my probe began showing "Outdated for >> more than one day" and none of the graphs are current, most show some white >> space at the far right hand side. >> >> My Total Uptime: 99.56% (31d, 22h, 30m) and I have power cycled the device >> twice trying to solve the problem. >> >> Any ideas on how to fix this will be appreciated. >> >> Thanks, >> >> FG >> > > >

1 0

Outdated for more than one day?
by Fred Grayson 27 Jul '13

27 Jul '13

Hello, Recently, all Built-in-Measurments for my probe began showing "Outdated for more than one day" and none of the graphs are current, most show some white space at the far right hand side. My Total Uptime: 99.56% (31d, 22h, 30m) and I have power cycled the device twice trying to solve the problem. Any ideas on how to fix this will be appreciated. Thanks, FG

1 0

Ping Fails (ns.ripe.net)
by AlbyVA 23 Jul '13

23 Jul '13

In reviewing My Probe stats, it appears that (ns.ripe.net) was once able to ping the server, but now it appears to be failing. All my other ping stats under My Probe show successful pings to other servers, but for some reason ns.ripe.net is failing. Does anybody have a suggestion of what might be going on, since ping is working to all the other servers. -Alby

4 6

No address in the results when ping or traceroute fail?
by Stephane Bortzmeyer 23 Jul '13

23 Jul '13

When a ping or traceroute emasurement fails, we do not know the IP address of the probe (empty "from" and no "src_addr"), which is annoying when you want to analyze the possible causes of the failure: { "size": 20, "addr": "2620:0:2d0:200:0:0:0:7", "min": -1, "rcvd": 0, "from": "", "dst_name": "2620:0:2d0:200:0:0:0:7", "af": 6, "timestamp": 1374395985, "fw": 4520, "proto": "ICMP", "name": "www.icann.org", "prb_id": 3953, "result": [ { "error": "sendto failed: Network is unreachable" }, { "error": "sendto failed: Network is unreachable" }, { "error": "sendto failed: Network is unreachable" } ], "max": -1, "dup": 0, "avg": -1, "type": "ping", "dst_addr": "2620:0:2d0:200::7", "sent": 0, "msm_id": 1013576 },

3 6

No probe shown in My Probes list (Registered. Plugged Probe v3 to network. 1st, 3rd, 4th LEDs lighted up.)
by Arthit Suriyawongkul 22 Jul '13

22 Jul '13

Hi I'm Arthit from Bangkok. New here. The switch at the probe is now at "3G/4G". Should i change to WISP or AP? thanks, Art -- เครือข่ายพลเมืองเน็ต -- "เปิดเน็ต เปิดใจ" Thai Netizen Network -- "Open Net. Open Mind." https://www.facebook.com/thainetizen

3 4

Strange and undocumented (?) result in traceroute JSON output
by Stephane Bortzmeyer 17 Jul '13

17 Jul '13

Measurement #1013405 contains: "result": [ { "x": "*" }, { "late": 20, "ttl": 61, "from": "88.79.15.141", "size": 96 }, { "x": "*" }, { "x": "*" } While "late" is documented <https://atlas.ripe.net/doc/data_struct#v4400_traceroute>, the lack of "rtt" field is not and crashes tools like json2traceroute.py.

3 2

[UDM] What value to give to 'requested' when 'type' = 'msm'?
by Stephane Bortzmeyer 17 Jul '13

17 Jul '13

The documentation <https://atlas.ripe.net/doc/measurement-creation-api/> says: "probes": [ { "requested": 1, "type": "msm", "value": 1000002 } ] but, from my tests, if you do so, you get only one probe, whatever measurement #1000002 actually used. To get all the probes, I had to indicate a very large number in 'requested' (unless you remember or count the actual number).

2 2

IPv6 and Atlas probe v3
by Mike. 16 Jul '13

16 Jul '13

My probe works fine on IPv4, obtaining IP address, router, and DNS servers via DCHP. The IPv6 capability has me curious with two questions... I statically configured the IPv6 address via the web interface. I gave the probe an IPv6 address from my prefix, a gateway address, and the IP address of a DNS recursive server provided by my tunnel vendor. The IPv6 address shows up OK on the web interface ("Internet Address") The AS Number also shows up fine. The Gateway is "Undetermined/Unknown" The IP addr of the DNS server is listed as shown below. In the text table below the configuration info, I see: ("V" is a check, "X" is an X) Static Enabled Probe Knows Probe Uses Last Static Address Given IPv6 V V V 2001:470:xxx:xxx::xxx DNS V V X 2001:470:20::2 Question #1: Why is there an "X" for DNS in the "Probe Uses" column? Is there something wrong with that DNS server? When I query DNS from another box on the same subnet as the Atlas probe I get valid results: ; <<>> DiG 9.8.3-P4 <<>> @2001:470:20::2 atlas.ripe.net any ; (1 server found) ;; global options: +cmd ;; Got answer: ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 19739 ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 2, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 0 ;; QUESTION SECTION: ;atlas.ripe.net. IN ANY ;; ANSWER SECTION: atlas.ripe.net. 5922 IN AAAA 2a01:4f8:121:30a3::78:16 atlas.ripe.net. 5911 IN A 178.63.78.16 ;; Query time: 21 msec ;; SERVER: 2001:470:20::2#53(2001:470:20::2) ;; WHEN: Mon Jul 8 12:24:01 2013 ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 76 I also noticed this sentence at the bottom of the https://atlas.ripe.net/doc/static-config page: "...As of now, we have no way of preventing the probe from accepting RAs. So if there is an IPv6 (rogue) RA on you network, it can/will override part of the static configuration. We're unsure if this will change in the future. ..." I do have RA support on the subnet, though I would not classify it as "rogue". :) The RA provides the IPv6 prefix, prefix length, and the IPv6 address of the recursive DNS server. This RA support has been used by another box on the subnet, and it seems to work fine. Question #2: Does the Atlas v3 probe use RA if they are present? Thanks.

2 2

Just to say thank you
by Stephane Bortzmeyer 16 Jul '13

16 Jul '13

With Atlas probes, we were able (at the cost of a few credits) to solve a difficult network connectivity problem. I just wanted to say THANKS.

1 0

Re: [atlas] Timeout on Ping Measurements
by Philip Homburg 15 Jul '13

15 Jul '13

On 2013/07/14 19:35 , Rusty Dekema wrote: > > What is the default timeout on ICMPv4 user-defined measurements made > on RIPE Atlas? I am guessing something like 1.2 s based on > observations, but I'd like to know definitively. It should be 1 second. > Also, is it possible to increase the timeout? One of the targets I > have been measuring often takes a very long time to respond (due to > congestion or link-layer retries) and I would like to have a high (5 > second, perhaps) timeout on these pings. I haven't noticed an option > to set this when setting up the measurement, but it's very possible > I've overlooked something. At the moment there is no option to change the ping timeout. Traceroute does have that option. Philip

1 0

Timeout on Ping Measurements
by Rusty Dekema 14 Jul '13

14 Jul '13

Greetings, What is the default timeout on ICMPv4 user-defined measurements made on RIPE Atlas? I am guessing something like 1.2 s based on observations, but I'd like to know definitively. Also, is it possible to increase the timeout? One of the targets I have been measuring often takes a very long time to respond (due to congestion or link-layer retries) and I would like to have a high (5 second, perhaps) timeout on these pings. I haven't noticed an option to set this when setting up the measurement, but it's very possible I've overlooked something. Cheers, Rusty Dekema

1 0

[iesg-secretary@ietf.org: [lmap] WG Action: Formed Large-Scale Measurement of Broadband Performance (lmap)]
by Stephane Bortzmeyer 11 Jul '13

11 Jul '13

It seems quite close from what Atlas is doing. Atlas documentation in a RFC, one day? :-)

2 1

300 probes just disappeared?
by Stephane Bortzmeyer 11 Jul '13

11 Jul '13

Yesterday, on the Web site, there were > 3400 probes, now: Probes connected to RIPE Atlas: 3177

3 2

atlas.ripe.net website reliability
by Mike. 11 Jul '13

11 Jul '13

About 20% of the time I try to access the website, the browser times out. Granted, I tend to access the website when it is the early morning hours in Europe, perhaos maintenance is being performed. Are there any plans in place to make the website more available to global viewers?

5 6

A Tutorial on Large-Scale Measurement Platforms
by Vaibhav Bajpai 03 Jul '13

03 Jul '13

Hello, We recently gave a tutorial on Large-Scale Measurement Platforms at AIMS 2013 [1]. The tutorial is available at [2]. [1] http://www.aims-conference.org/2013/labs.html [2] http://cnds.eecs.jacobs-university.de/tutorials Abstract: --------- This tutorial provides an introduction into large-scale measurement platforms. It begins by surveying active measurement studies that paved way for the deployment of such platforms. It then describes the internals of the RIPE Atlas and SamKnows platforms, their architecture and surveys the work published from insights discovered from the collected data. The first part concludes by introducing the current Large Scale Measurement of Access Network Performance (LMAP) standardisation efforts in the IETF. The second part of the tutorial provides practical training on how to virtualise an OpenWrt-based Customer Premises Equipment (CPE) and bootstrap it to register as a Measurement Agent (MA) with a controller. The MA is then used to install a measurement test, schedule the reporting of the measurement test results and use a REST API to send and retrieve the measurement results back from the collector. The tutorial also provides training on how to use the RIPE Atlas REST API to create User Defined Measurements (UDMs), and retrieve the UDM measurement results. It concludes with a description of the UDM result data structures and a brief of how programming tools can be used to analyse such data. Best Regards, Vaibhav Bajpai and Nikolay Melnikov About authors: Vaibhav Bajpai is a PhD student at Jacobs University Bremen, Germany. His research focuses on understanding the impact of network infrastructure changes using Large-Scale Measurement Platforms. http://vaibhavbajpai.com Nikolay Melnikov is a PhD student at Jacobs University Bremen, Germany. His research focuses on identification and differentiation of Internet users based on their browsing patterns and behaviors. http://nmelnikov.com

1 0

Mid-summer community update
by Vesna Manojlovic 01 Jul '13

01 Jul '13

Dear RIPE Atlas community, you have been very active recently. I summerized it (ha! pun intended) in the RIPE Labs article, highlighting new community related features for RIPE Atlas anchor hosts, sponsors and "ambassadors". And the article has lots of pretty pictures! Share and enjoy! Warm regards, Vesna https://labs.ripe.net/Members/becha/ripe-atlas-midsummer-2013-community-upd…

1 0

Spam on this list
by Carsten Schiefner 27 Jun '13

27 Jun '13

Dear NCC colleagues, are the first ideas for counter-measures being already floated around internally about how to deal with the (increasing...) amount of spam mails being distributed via this list? Thanks and best: -C.

4 6

[UDM creation API] Which parameters are mandatory?
by Stephane Bortzmeyer 27 Jun '13

27 Jun '13

It seems that in <https://atlas.ripe.net/doc/measurement-creation-api/> (now linked from the Atlas documentation so I assume it is no longer in alpha test), there is no mention of which properties are mandatory and which are not. I have to resort to trial-and-error. For instance, for DNS measurements, the property query_class appear to be mandatory (otherwise, I get an error 400) which is suprising (it defaults to IN in all the DNS clients I know).

2 2

No more a list of probes when the measurement is ongoing?
by Stephane Bortzmeyer 24 Jun '13

24 Jun '13

I relied on a "probes" field in the <https://atlas.ripe.net/api/v1/measurement/1011817/?fields=> data to find out the number of probes allocated to a measurement. Now, it is no longer available :-( % curl 'https://atlas.ripe.net/api/v1/measurement/1011817/?fields=' {"can_visualise": false, "creation_time": 1372080547, "description": "IPv4 base connectivity tests with 46.226.105.0", "dst_addr": "46.226.105.0", "dst_asn": null, "dst_name": "46.226.105.0", "interval": null, "is_oneoff": true, "is_public": true, "msm_id": 1011817, "packets": 3, "probe_sources": [["Area", "WW", 10]], "resolve_on_probe": false, "resolved_ips": ["46.226.105.0"], "result": "/api/v1/measurement/1011817/result/", "start_time": 1372080547, "status": {"id": 2, "name": "Ongoing"}, "stop_time": null, "type": {"id": 1, "name": "ping"}} What is its replacement?

2 2

the one you look for.
by Jack 24 Jun '13

24 Jun '13

1 0

A New look, a tailor made hospitality - Welcome and Welcome back
by Hotel Pioppeto saronno 22 Jun '13

22 Jun '13

+39.0296248164 pioppeto(a)hotelpioppeto.it WWW.HOTELPIOPPETOSARONNO.IT Via Strà Madonna, 15 - 21047 Saronno (VA) - A9 Milano-Como-Chiasso motorway, Saronno exit

1 0

Hалоговое планирование POЯЛТИ
by Poялти 19 Jun '13

19 Jun '13

26 июня 2013 г. Bce o poялти в налoгoвом плaниpoвании, зaкoнные сxемы oптимизации нaлогoв c помoщью неpeзидентов. Пpактикa paботы c oбъeктaми интеллeктуальной сoбственности г. Kиeв, ул. Гоpькoго (Антoновича), 172 бизнeс-цeнтр «Паллaдиум Cити», 8 эт, oф. 817. Тeл.: (044) 362-7625 ДОKЛАДЧИКИ Оcтапчук Bиктория Игнатьевнa — упрaвляющий партнeр Пaтентнo-юридического агентcтва «Cинеpгия», патeнтный повеpенный, aдвокат. Являeтся члeнoм Bcеукраинской общеcтвенной opганизации «Асcоциация юриcтoв Укpаины», гдe рeгуляpно принимаeт учacтиe в заceданиях кoмитетов пo вопрoсам нaлoгообложения, интеллектуaльной сoбcтвенности и рeклaмы. Являeтcя автоpом блoгoв, мнoгочиcленных публикaций в пoпулярных тeмaтических изданияx. Регуляpно выступaет в качеcтве доклaдчикa нa пpавoвых кoнфepенциях, a тaкже кoнференциях, посвящeнных функционирoванию IT и интeрнeт бизнеcа в Укpaинe. Сepоштан Aлинa Aлeксандровна - паpтнeр Пaтентнo-юридического aгeнтства "Синepгия", пaтeнтный пoвepенный Укpаины. Cпециализируется нa вoпpосах pегистрации объектoв интeллeктуальной сoбcтвенности кaк в Укрaинe, тaк и в другиx cтранах миpa, региcтрации дoгoвoров нa эти объeкты, пpовeдении юpидичeского аудитa oбъектов интеллeктуальной cобственности. Являетcя aвтоpом блогoв, многочиcленных публикaций в пoпулярных тeматических издaнияx. Kияшко Eлeнa Евгеньeвна - незaвисимый оцeнщик интеллeктуaльной сoбcтвенности, члeн ВOО «Аcсоциация Cпециалистов Oцeнки», пaтeнтный пoвepенный Укрaины. Cпециaлизируется нa oцeнке интeллектуальной coбcтвенности, a тaкже oпpeделении ущepба oт нарушeния имущecтвeнных пpaв нa объeкты интеллектуaльной сoбственности. Лeктop Шкoлы национaльных профeссиональных квaлификaций МИБ (пo нaпрaвлению «Oценка интeллектуальной cобcтвенности») и Инcтитутa интeллeктуaльной сoбcтвенности Одеcской юридичecкой акадeмии в г. Киeвe. Иваннa Пилипюк - овoму плaнирoванию, консультaнт пo вопрoсам междунаpодного нaлогового зaконодательства, нaлoговой и буxгaлтeрской oтчетности, oпыт рeструктуризации бизнecа, в oффшoрном бизнece болee 7 лeт, публикaции в ведущиx эконoмичeских и юpидичecких изданияx. Пpeимущeства Ceминар сoставлен из прaктических coветов и рекoмендаций. Bы нe уcлышитe цитиpование нoрм закoна в буквaльнoм cмыcле. Kaждый учаcтник cеминара нaучитcя пpимeнять зaкoн для зaщиты и блaга свoего бизнеca. Мы пoзнaкомим Baс c пoзицией нaлoгoвых opгaнов пo pазличным нюaнсaм нaлогoобложения рoялти, a тaкжe c пpимеpами из cудебнoй прaктики. Bы научитеcь избeгать ошибoк в oтношeнии дeйствий c oбъeктами интеллектуaльной cобственности, кoтоpые мoгут пpивeсти к pазнoгласиям c налoговыми opгaнами и судeбным разбиpательствам. Пpограмма Блoк 1. Нaлoговое планиpование в Украинe и зa рубeжoм. Oсобенности пoстpоения выгoдных cхем рабoты c неpезидентами – этaпы, вaжныe кpитeрии, фaктоpы,которые влияют нa пpинятие peшeний в выборe вaриaнтов рaбoты, видoв компaнии и дp. Ceкpеты пocтроения «прaвильных» и oднoвременно выгoдныx cхeм рaбoты для междунaродного бизнeса. Pоль инocтранных кoмпаний в бизнеcе, или чeго нe cделаешь толькo укpaинскими рecурсами. Междунаpодное налогoвое плaниpование. Споcобы зaкoнного умeньшения затpaт – мирoвая прaктикa оптимизaции затрaт Блoк 2. Bведeние в налoгoвое плaниpование c пoмoщью oбъeктов интeллeктуальной собcтвенности. Kак «рaботает» cxема выплaты рoялти нepезидентам, poль этoй cxeмы в налoговом планиpoвании. Пpинадлежность и терpитория дeйствия пpaв интеллeктуальной coбственности. Kpаткий oбзоp. Лицeнзиoнный догoвoр, налoгообложение poялти в Укpaине: бaзoвыe аспeкты. Блoк 3. Oбъекты интeллектуальной сoбcтвенности: кaкoй выбpaть, кaк peгиcтрировать и зaключaть дoговoры. Опpеделение объeктoв интeллектуaльной сoбственности. Гocударственная peгиcтрация oбъектов интeллeктуaльной coбственности: ключeвые аспeкты правильнoго oформления докумeнтации. Дoкумeнты, подтвepждающие правa нa объeкты интeллектуальной coбcтвенности. Oсобенности пpaвoвой oхpаны oбъeктoв автoрских и смeжных пpaв в Укpаинe. Испoльзование aвтoрских и cмeжныx прaв в бизнеce. Пpaвoвое peгулиpование пpoцeсса пpиoбретения прaв нa торгoвую мapку в Укpaинe. Бoлeе дeтaльно oб оснoваниях для oткaзa в peгиcтрации и кaк иx избeжать. Мeждунаpодная pегиcтрация тоpговой мapки: виды, пpeимущeства и недoстатки кaждогo из видoв. Пpoмышлeнный oбpaзец, полeзнaя мoдель, изобpетения – ключeвыe oтличия мeжду ними, ocoбенности рeгистрации и пpавовой оxраны, a тaкжe дoкументы, подтвеpждающие пpaва нa ниx. Правa интеллeктуальной coбcтвенности нa кoммеpческое нaимeнование. Прaвoвое pегулиpование oтношeний oтнoсительно дpугиx объeктoв интеллeктуaльной coбcтвенности, в чaстности: oбозначений прoисхождения тoвaра, тoпографий интeгpaльных микpoсхем, нoу-xaу. Лицензионныe догoвoры, договoры пeрeдачи пpав, a такжe другиe дoгoвoры нa oбъeкты интeллектуальной cобственности (в чaстнoсти: нa oбъeкты автopских и cмeжныx прaв, тopговые мapки, прoмышленные oбрaзцы, пoлезныe мoдeли, изобpeтения): кpитеpии разгpаничения и cущecтвенные момeнты, кoтоpые стoит учитывaть пpи coставлении/заключении тaкиx дoгoворов. Блoк 4. Haлoгообложение опеpаций c oбъектами интeллектуaльной coбственности. Кaк oтражать oбъeкты интeллeктуальной собcтвенности в бухгaлтерском учeтe; мeтоды нaчиcлeния aмоpтизации. Hалогообложение платeжей пo дoгoворам пeредачи прaв нa oбъeкты интеллектуaльной cобcтвенности. Опpеделение рoялти, налогoобложение poялти в Укрaинe – детaльный обзoр, cоотношение нoрм, пpaктикa примeнeния. Poялти пo лицензионнoму дoгoвoру c пpaвoм выдaчи cублицензии, poялти пo дoговору кoммеpческой концeссии (фpанчaйзинга). Обязaтельность иcпользoвания объeктa интеллектуaльной сoбственности в хoзяйcтвенной деятельнoсти лицензиaта для цeлeй выплaты poялти. Налoгообложение плaтeжeй рoялти нерeзидентам: HДC, зaтpaты, нaлог c доxoдов неpезидентов c иcтoчникoм иx пpoиcхождения из Укpаины. Пpoблемные вопрoсы в oтношении плaтeжей poялти нeрезидентам: кaк пoдтвepдить бенефициaрность пoлучатeля рoялти; чтo дeлaть, eсли пpава впeрвые вoзникли нa тeрpитории Укрaины? Письмa нaлoговой cлужбы и решeния Выcшeго админиcтpативного cудa Укpаины пo вoпpосам, касaющимся pегулиpования нaлoгoобложения pоялти: рaзьяcнения и peкoмендации пo применeнию иx нa пpактикe. Мeждунаpодные догoвoры oб избежaнии двойнoгo налогoобложения: порядoк пpименeния. Cтpaны, c кoтopыми Украинa заключилa тaкие дoговоры, и стрaны, в кoтoрые выгоднo плaтить рoялти. Блoк 5. Caйт и дoмен. Защитa инфopмации и интелeктуaльной сoбcтвенности Включениe poялти в тaмoжeнную cтoимoсть: сpавнение нoрм cтapого и нoвoго Таможeнных кодeкcов, cудебнaя прaктика. Cайт кaк oбъeкт интeллeктуaльной сoбcтвенности. Зaщита инфоpмaции. Дoмен и xостинг кaк oбъекты интеллектуaльной сoбcтвенности. Пoнятие oценки интеллeктуальной coбcтвенности. Тpeбoвания к пpоведению оцeнки интeллектуальной coбственности. Обзop пoдxoдов к оценкe интeллектуальной сoбственности. Спocобы опpеделения стaвки рoялти. Опрeделение cуммы пaушaльного платeжа. Пoлучениe aктa ценoвoй экспepтизы в Гoсвнешинформе: пeречень нeобxодимых докумeнтов, сpоки, уcлoвия, стоимoсть уcлуг. Оcобенности рaбoты укpaинских прeдпpиятий c неpезидентами: нaлoгообложение, вaлютный кoнтpoль, финмонитopинг oпeраций и дpугие ocобенности. Блoк 6. Ocoбенности pабoты украинcких предпpиятий c неpезидентами: нaлoгoобложение, вaлютный кoнтрoль, финмонитoринг опepаций и дpугие oсoбенности. Cхема c выплaтoй poялти неpeзидентам - ecть ли онa cейчaс, и в какoм «рeальном» видe сущeствует? Bыгодно ли pабoтать c нeрезидентами пpи выплатe poялти? Налoгообложение опeраций c рoялти. Законoдательное pегулиpование выплaт pоялти. Ocобенности налoгoобложения рoялти в другиx стpанах. Kипp, Вeликoбритания, Мaльта, Эcтония и дp. Eсть ли альтeрнатива кипрcким кoмпaниям, и кaкaя? Пpактичeские cовeты пo pаботе c нeрeзидентами. Стpуктура иноcтранной кoмпании, нoминaльный cервис, дoкумeнты, лeгализaция документoв и дpугиe оcoбенности. Отчетнoсть компaнии. Cовeты безoпасного получeния (региcтрации, пoкупки, пoлучения в даp) кoмпании, и кaк oт нee избавитьcя лeгко и недоpого (зaкрыть, бpoсить, пpoдать) Открытиe счeта для неpезидентной компaнии. Kак выбрaть бaнк: критeрии выбopa банкa. PEГЛАМEНТ Pегистрация c 9:00 пo 9:30 Нaчало в 9:30 Окончaние18:00 CТOИМOCТЬ 1150.00 гpн. зa oднoгo учаcтникa. Для втopoгo и тpeтьегo учacтника cкидки — 10% B cтoимocть вxoдит: инфopмационнo-консультационное oбcлуживaние нa ceминaре, cбopник мaтеpиалов, питаниe, oбcуждeние дoкладoв и oбмeн мнeниями c лeктоpoм. Kaждый учacтник пoлучaeт буxгaлтepский кoмплeкт докумeнтoв. договор медлительность компания газета выбор переговоры готовность договор контакт

1 0

A New look, a tailor made hospitality - Welcome and Welcome back
by Hotel Pioppeto saronno 19 Jun '13

19 Jun '13

+39.0296248164 pioppeto(a)hotelpioppeto.it WWW.HOTELPIOPPETOSARONNO.IT Via Strà Madonna, 15 - 21047 Saronno (VA) - A9 Milano-Como-Chiasso motorway, Saronno exit

1 0