Re: [RIPE Atlas Ambassadors] Deploying RIPE Atlas probes in more locations and networks
Hello all, Can someone share an elevator pitch on why an ISP or an organisation that is on 24/7 needs to put a probe in their network. What are the benefits they would get? Has someone prepared a case study. Regards DP 9849111010. Sent from my phone. Please excuse brevity and typos if any. -------- Original message -------- From: Emile Aben <emile.aben@ripe.net> Date: 25/08/2015 09:25 (GMT+05:30) To: Sebastian Castro <sebastian@nzrs.net.nz> Cc: ripe-atlas-ambassadors@ripe.net Subject: Re: [RIPE Atlas Ambassadors] Deploying RIPE Atlas probes in more locations and networks On 24/08/15 23:53, Sebastian Castro wrote:
On 24/08/15 11:27 pm, Vesna Manojlovic wrote:
Dear ambassadors,
Hi Vesna:
You’ve helped us do a great job in distributing RIPE Atlas probes to many networks and regions of the world, but we still have work to do! There are a few ways to find out exactly where we need your help:
1) Networks with the most users and fewest probes
In order to increase topological diversity, it would be good to "target" the users of the networks that don’t have a lot - or any - coverage.
This RIPE Labs article lists the top 20 ASNs: https://labs.ripe.net/Members/emileaben/improving-ripe-atlas-coverage-what-n...
Or you can see the raw-text table here, sorted by the network size: http://sg-pub.ripe.net/emile/atlas_eyeball_coverage.txt
Emile's work is really valuable and much appreciated. Is it possible to have a date of generation on that file? It seems to be the same as few months ago, considering we have deployed probes in the last two months that increase coverage.
This was a one-off, timestamp on the file says I did that on 26 June. I've just put a new one here: http://sg-pub.ripe.net/emile/atlas-coverage/
2) Comparing population density with the distribution of RIPE Atlas probes
Emile Aben used CartoDB to plot, population and probe density on the same map: https://emileaben.cartodb.com/viz/3caa5144-823e-11e4-8025-0e018d66dc29/publi...
https://labs.ripe.net/Members/emileaben/distribution-of-ripe-atlas-probes
3) Comparing coverage between countries
This map shows the percentage of probes per country: https://atlas.ripe.net/results/maps/density/
Whichever method you choose, we trust your instincts and your knowledge of the local community to make the right decision and give probes to the best people!
We have a different method, that uses address space to determine which ASNs are relevant to cover.
The eyeball method works for ISP that serve customers, but not for those that provide transit. Our methodology, that picks a BGP table dump and calculates the ratio of /24 versus number of probes helps us to have more coverage and to quickly identify targets.
Heh. We had a discussion last week in the office which boiled down to pretty much what you describe here, as an alternative to 'eyeball' data. I expect more in this space soon :) Cheers and many thanks to all our ambassadors for the great work they are doing! Emile _______________________________________________ RIPE-Atlas-Ambassadors mailing list RIPE-Atlas-Ambassadors@ripe.net https://www.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/ripe-atlas-ambassadors
On 25/08/15 4:18 pm, dp@datasoftcomnet.com wrote:
Hello all,
Hi:
Can someone share an elevator pitch on why an ISP or an organisation that is on 24/7 needs to put a probe in their network.
The elevator pitch we use is: - You could benefit from accessing thousands of probes around the world that can help you diagnose network problems or run monitoring better than any company. - You can help Internet researchers to do better research by having a more complete picture of the Internet
What are the benefits they would get? Has someone prepared a case study.
Surely RIPE has material they can refer you to. My employer is in both sides of the equation, as RIPE Atlas users for operational and research, as well as probe hosts. Cheers,
Regards DP 9849111010.
Sent from my phone. Please excuse brevity and typos if any.
-------- Original message -------- From: Emile Aben <emile.aben@ripe.net> Date: 25/08/2015 09:25 (GMT+05:30) To: Sebastian Castro <sebastian@nzrs.net.nz> Cc: ripe-atlas-ambassadors@ripe.net Subject: Re: [RIPE Atlas Ambassadors] Deploying RIPE Atlas probes in more locations and networks
On 24/08/15 23:53, Sebastian Castro wrote:
On 24/08/15 11:27 pm, Vesna Manojlovic wrote:
Dear ambassadors,
Hi Vesna:
You’ve helped us do a great job in distributing RIPE Atlas probes to many networks and regions of the world, but we still have work to do! There are a few ways to find out exactly where we need your help:
1) Networks with the most users and fewest probes
In order to increase topological diversity, it would be good to "target" the users of the networks that don’t have a lot - or any - coverage.
This RIPE Labs article lists the top 20 ASNs:
https://labs.ripe.net/Members/emileaben/improving-ripe-atlas-coverage-what-n...
Or you can see the raw-text table here, sorted by the network size: http://sg-pub.ripe.net/emile/atlas_eyeball_coverage.txt
Emile's work is really valuable and much appreciated. Is it possible to have a date of generation on that file? It seems to be the same as few months ago, considering we have deployed probes in the last two months that increase coverage.
This was a one-off, timestamp on the file says I did that on 26 June. I've just put a new one here: http://sg-pub.ripe.net/emile/atlas-coverage/
2) Comparing population density with the distribution of RIPE Atlas probes
Emile Aben used CartoDB to plot, population and probe density on the same map:
https://emileaben.cartodb.com/viz/3caa5144-823e-11e4-8025-0e018d66dc29/publi...
https://labs.ripe.net/Members/emileaben/distribution-of-ripe-atlas-probes
3) Comparing coverage between countries
This map shows the percentage of probes per country: https://atlas.ripe.net/results/maps/density/
Whichever method you choose, we trust your instincts and your knowledge of the local community to make the right decision and give probes to the best people!
We have a different method, that uses address space to determine which ASNs are relevant to cover.
The eyeball method works for ISP that serve customers, but not for those that provide transit. Our methodology, that picks a BGP table dump and calculates the ratio of /24 versus number of probes helps us to have more coverage and to quickly identify targets.
Heh. We had a discussion last week in the office which boiled down to pretty much what you describe here, as an alternative to 'eyeball' data. I expect more in this space soon :)
Cheers and many thanks to all our ambassadors for the great work they are doing! Emile
_______________________________________________ RIPE-Atlas-Ambassadors mailing list RIPE-Atlas-Ambassadors@ripe.net https://www.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/ripe-atlas-ambassadors
-- Sebastian Castro Technical Research Manager NZRS Ltd. desk: +64 4 495 2337 mobile: +64 21 400535
Hi, On 25-aug.-15 06:18, dp@datasoftcomnet.com wrote:
Hello all,
Can someone share an elevator pitch on why an ISP or an organisation that is on 24/7 needs to put a probe in their network.
If you need a glossy brochure, here is the PDF: https://www-static.ripe.net/static/rnd-ui/atlas/media/apply/RIPE_Atlas_flyer... (accessible from: https://atlas.ripe.net/get-involved/become-a-ripe-atlas-ambassador/)
What are the benefits they would get?
Some are listed on the PDF brochure. I leave it to the others to share their elevator pitch :)
Has someone prepared a case study.
Here's the collection of case studies: https://labs.ripe.net/atlas/user-experiences/user-views-and-use-cases Other examples: organisations that decided to sponsor RIPE Atlas have calculated how much would it cost them to deploy their own world-wide monitoring network, or to rent/buy one from the commercial company. Then they decided to take part in the community project that RIPE Atlas is :) Here are the sponsors, listed: https://atlas.ripe.net/get-involved/community/#!sponsors I hope this helps. Vesna
Really good question.. An ISP or organization is hard pressed to capture metrics outside their system I contend — unless you pay for a commercial service and even then you don't get the span of coverage that Atlas has. What I have done is use the probes to be part of the overall measurements and a way to accrue credits to run tests to monitor availability reachability qualities OUTSIDE my overall network. If your 'network' spans multiple regions/geo-locations, have a few probes and capture reachability metrics to capture quality of experience as a matter of operation. * Often it's "I think it's slow, it must be the network" * Or "I can't get to X but get to Y, it must be the network" But is it really 'the network' all the time? Highly unlikely, but when it is, how could you triangulate a problem that is intermittent by time and locale? If you have measurement nodes (probes), this becomes slightly easier and is one datapoint to add to the diagnosis mix. They aren't a replacement for Nagios/Big Brother/PerfSONAR infrastructures, but there is no way you can economically achieve the same network coverage as Atlas does. For example, I have a service located in Canada and identified Canadian probes to attempt to do a certificate check as a way to exhibit reachability (not a content check) to my host. This allows me to assess 'How reachable am I across Canada from these probes to my host?'. I have done the same for 'outside the country to my host' reachability as well. The other aspect is that probes can be operated on consumer connections. These allow a true 'end to end' measurement that would more accurately depict user experience — not only from Internet exchange(IX) to IX. This is sometimes overlooked. To sum it up: * The probes add additional capabilities for network measurement and diagnosis of problems. * understand your use cases & have a metrics plan to begin with. * They can run autonomously without you setting up infrastructure regardless of IX or home cable modem install site. * Slim to small operational management overhead. * They allow you to tap into a global measurement network without having to run the backend stats aggregation at scale. * a very big plus! Chris. ___________________________________________________________________________________________ Chris Phillips Technical Architect, Canadian Access Federation | CANARIE| chris.phillips@canarie.ca<mailto:chris.phillips@canarie.ca> | W: 613.943.5370 |GPG: 0x0380811D From: RIPE-Atlas-Ambassadors <ripe-atlas-ambassadors-bounces@ripe.net<mailto:ripe-atlas-ambassadors-bounces@ripe.net>> on behalf of "dp@datasoftcomnet.com<mailto:dp@datasoftcomnet.com>" <dp@datasoftcomnet.com<mailto:dp@datasoftcomnet.com>> Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 at 12:18 AM To: "emile.aben@ripe.net<mailto:emile.aben@ripe.net>" <emile.aben@ripe.net<mailto:emile.aben@ripe.net>>, "sebastian@nzrs.net.nz<mailto:sebastian@nzrs.net.nz>" <sebastian@nzrs.net.nz<mailto:sebastian@nzrs.net.nz>> Cc: "ripe-atlas-ambassadors@ripe.net<mailto:ripe-atlas-ambassadors@ripe.net>" <ripe-atlas-ambassadors@ripe.net<mailto:ripe-atlas-ambassadors@ripe.net>> Subject: Re: [RIPE Atlas Ambassadors] Deploying RIPE Atlas probes in more locations and networks Hello all, Can someone share an elevator pitch on why an ISP or an organisation that is on 24/7 needs to put a probe in their network. What are the benefits they would get? Has someone prepared a case study. Regards DP 9849111010. Sent from my phone. Please excuse brevity and typos if any. -------- Original message -------- From: Emile Aben <emile.aben@ripe.net<mailto:emile.aben@ripe.net>> Date: 25/08/2015 09:25 (GMT+05:30) To: Sebastian Castro <sebastian@nzrs.net.nz<mailto:sebastian@nzrs.net.nz>> Cc: ripe-atlas-ambassadors@ripe.net<mailto:ripe-atlas-ambassadors@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [RIPE Atlas Ambassadors] Deploying RIPE Atlas probes in more locations and networks On 24/08/15 23:53, Sebastian Castro wrote:
On 24/08/15 11:27 pm, Vesna Manojlovic wrote:
Dear ambassadors,
Hi Vesna:
You’ve helped us do a great job in distributing RIPE Atlas probes to many networks and regions of the world, but we still have work to do! There are a few ways to find out exactly where we need your help:
1) Networks with the most users and fewest probes
In order to increase topological diversity, it would be good to "target" the users of the networks that don’t have a lot - or any - coverage.
This RIPE Labs article lists the top 20 ASNs: https://labs.ripe.net/Members/emileaben/improving-ripe-atlas-coverage-what-n...
Or you can see the raw-text table here, sorted by the network size: http://sg-pub.ripe.net/emile/atlas_eyeball_coverage.txt
Emile's work is really valuable and much appreciated. Is it possible to have a date of generation on that file? It seems to be the same as few months ago, considering we have deployed probes in the last two months that increase coverage.
This was a one-off, timestamp on the file says I did that on 26 June. I've just put a new one here: http://sg-pub.ripe.net/emile/atlas-coverage/
2) Comparing population density with the distribution of RIPE Atlas probes
Emile Aben used CartoDB to plot, population and probe density on the same map: https://emileaben.cartodb.com/viz/3caa5144-823e-11e4-8025-0e018d66dc29/publi...
https://labs.ripe.net/Members/emileaben/distribution-of-ripe-atlas-probes
3) Comparing coverage between countries
This map shows the percentage of probes per country: https://atlas.ripe.net/results/maps/density/
Whichever method you choose, we trust your instincts and your knowledge of the local community to make the right decision and give probes to the best people!
We have a different method, that uses address space to determine which ASNs are relevant to cover.
The eyeball method works for ISP that serve customers, but not for those that provide transit. Our methodology, that picks a BGP table dump and calculates the ratio of /24 versus number of probes helps us to have more coverage and to quickly identify targets.
Heh. We had a discussion last week in the office which boiled down to pretty much what you describe here, as an alternative to 'eyeball' data. I expect more in this space soon :) Cheers and many thanks to all our ambassadors for the great work they are doing! Emile _______________________________________________ RIPE-Atlas-Ambassadors mailing list RIPE-Atlas-Ambassadors@ripe.net<mailto:RIPE-Atlas-Ambassadors@ripe.net> https://www.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/ripe-atlas-ambassadors
Hi DP, from my personal point of view there are a couple of reasons why we are deploying probes (both the candy size as well as the anchor-version): - straight-forward comparison of IPv4 vs. IPv6 performance - analysis of raw data and "pre-cooked" visual presentation, you just need one quick glance to decide whether "everything's fine" or needs some attention, ° in particular rtt and packet drop to instances of DNS root servers, where ° there's not necessarily an immediate noticeable impact on user experience - quick feedback on the (desired | undesired) effects of routing (planned or accidental) changes UDMs have been mentioned already, iirc, and while I think the concept is GREAT, I usually don't have the spare cycles to use them as much as I should or could ;-) Hth, Wilfried On 2015-08-25 06:18, dp@datasoftcomnet.com wrote:
Hello all, Can someone share an elevator pitch on why an ISP or an organisation that is on 24/7 needs to put a probe in their network. What are the benefits they would get? Has someone prepared a case study.
Regards DP 9849111010.
Sent from my phone. Please excuse brevity and typos if any.
participants (5)
-
Chris Phillips -
dp＠datasoftcomnet.com -
Sebastian Castro -
Vesna Manojlovic -
Wilfried Woeber